Your thoughts on the "cool mom" case?

[cincinnati chili]

For those who don't know the facts:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/15/sexparty.mom.ap/index.html

Mods - if this is considered "political," feel free to delete. But I don't think this is the sort of polarizing Repub/Democrat issue that usually brings problesm.

[MWM]

Too much. 30 years is basically a life sentence for her. What she did was clearly wrong and deserves to be punished, but to have the rest of her life taken away isn't benefitting society. 7-10 years would still be harsh, but more palatable, IMO. It is high school kids we're talking about. We're not talking about 12-13 year olds.

[cincinnati chili]

Your take is pretty much like mine, MWM. This is totally out of proportion with sentences given to violent men who molest young children. It's totally out of proportion with sentences given to people who beat the crap out of children. It's a situtation where judges and/or prosecutors care more about getting their names in the paper than about fairness.

[GAC]

Would you feel that way if it were kid? That is a 7-8 year sentence?

Personally, I really don't know what an appropriate sentence length would be. But if it involved one of my kids, she had better hope she got put away so that I, as a parent, couldn't get ahold of her. ;)

[RBA]

Authorities said Johnson held parties for the boys almost weekly between October 2003 and October 2004. They said Johnson provided drugs and alcohol to eight boys and had sex with five of them

She provided drugs, alcohol and had sex with minors.

I believe in stiff penalties for child molesters. She'll get out in 7 years with good behavior. That's about right. That's with the few facts I have, I wasn't on the jury or in the courthouse.

[Unassisted]

I believe in stiff penalties for child molesters. She'll get out in 7 years with good behavior. That's about right. That's with the few facts I have, I wasn't on the jury or in the courthouse.News report I saw said "no parole" for 10 years. 10 years works for me.

[Yachtzee]

I feel that the providing of drugs and alcohol, essentially dealing drugs to minors, in addition to the sex, makes the sentence just about right. I would say the problem isn't with this sentence, it's with the lighter sentences for sex offenders who molest young children.

[Jaycint]

A guy I used to work with (who is 34) just got a one year sentence, that's right I said one year, for having sex with a 14 year old girl. And I don't mean just your run of the mill sex, I'm talking no area was left unexplored. If he only gets a year I have a lot of trouble with this lady getting 30. Especially with teenage boys that were probably all for what she was doing.

[REDREAD]

Way too harsh. We have people that have commited murder that get out before 10 years.

[MWM]

GAC, if it were my 17 year old boy, I'd be a little pissed. But I'd still be reasonable enough to not feel like taking THE REST OF HER LIFE away. High school kids are old enough to know exactly wht they're doing. She's not unduly influencing them based on her role as an adult to do something they wouldn't be doing otherwise. The harm done just isn't enough to end her life. I'd reserve those types of punishments for crimes against young children or violent crimes. This isn't voolent. I'd make such a judgment based on the damage done to the victims. Do you really think having her do what she did caused any real damage to the kids? If the answer is no, then is it really serving society to effectively end a woman's life? Not in my book.

Now if the drugs she was passing out were along the lines of cocaine, heroine, or ecstacy, then I might reconsider. But if we're talking a little mary jane, then I'm I'm not as concerned.

[RedFanAlways1966]

I would say the problem isn't with this sentence, it's with the lighter sentences for sex offenders who molest young children.

Ding, ding, ding! WELL SAID!!

Let her have sex for the next 30 years... with her cellmate(s) and her new friends in the shower area. I do not care if the teenage boys knew what they were doing. The point is that she is an ADULT (41-years-old). She has the ability to INFLUENCE teens. She influenced them with illegal drugs. Then she selfishly influenced (used) them to satisfy her disgusting need for sexual acts with teenagers. Male, female... does not matter. I venture to guess that she was fully aware that she was breaking the law. I also believe she did not think she'd get caught (doing it every week for a year!). Should have done your own drugs and bought a Playgirl magazine... solo.

My advice to sicko lady... check the sentencing guidelines on the crimes you intend to commit before you do it. Maybe that will make it easier to understand the possible outcome if caught. Give her life.... I don't care. Never a sentence that will be brought upon me b/c I do not commit disgusting crimes.

[RBA]

A guy I used to work with (who is 34) just got a one year sentence, that's right I said one year, for having sex with a 14 year old girl. And I don't mean just your run of the mill sex, I'm talking no area was left unexplored. If he only gets a year I have a lot of trouble with this lady getting 30. Especially with teenage boys that were probably all for what she was doing.

Boys are all for it? And a 14 year girl wouldn't be? And how do you know this?

And I agree 1 year is not long enought.

[Danny Serafini]

People seem to be assuming that because these are high school boys that they're 17 and old enough to know what they're doing. They could've just as easily been 14 year old high school boys for all we know. There's a big difference between 14 and 17.

[Jaycint]

Boys are all for it? And a 14 year girl wouldn't be? And how do you know this?

And I agree 1 year is not long enought.

I didn't mean to emphasize the fact that because they were boys it was okay or that if they were girls it wouldn't be. Was just speaking about this particluar case. I think there is way too much gray area when it comes to stuff like this. Should a 20 year old guy that gets it on with a 15 year old girl that is all for it be punished? In my mind no. I think consent needs to be a much bigger factor than it is in deciding cases like this.

Show of hands of all you guys (meaning men) on this thread that at the age range of 15-17 wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity to have sex with an older woman. And yet if you did then somehow all of a sudden she is evil incarnate? I don't buy it.

[westofyou]

Show of hands of all you guys (meaning men) on this thread that at the age range of 15-17 wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity to have sex with an older woman. And yet if you did then somehow all of a sudden she is evil incarnate? I don't buy it.
Agreed, housing this woman for 30 years at the expense of the state is ridiculous, despite the shouts for witch burning. The culture of this from the boys POV is way diffrent than the girls, example Lolita is a novel considered "risque" and yet the new John Irving novel latches onto the theme of a young man having relations with older woman starting at the age of nine.

Double standards at the states cost.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Probably not drugging and having sex with teenage girls. But who knows!?!??

I also wonder what O.J. Simpson's golf game is like? And I wonder if Robert Blake eats at that same place where he checks in his weapon before dining?

[Redsland]

If there had been a mom like this where I went to high school, I'd have found a way to get left back.

Way too harsh a sentence. Seven to ten years served sounds about right.

[MWM]

RFA, if it was up to you, I'd be in jail right now for shoplifting some baseball cards and getting caught 19 years ago when I was 12.

[M2]

The drugs part of the conviction is the sticky wicket for me and there's a lot of questions I'd have on that front - what drugs are we talking about, did she supply them or did the kids bring along their own contraband?

Alcohol to minors is the stuff community service was made for. Maybe you should get a week in the clink for scared straight purposes, maybe.

As for the sex, I'm not usually one for double standards, but I've been a teen-aged boy. While in this specific case it doesn't look like they've made enough alcohol to get me interested in this particular woman, I can vouch that had, during my high school years, some yummy mummy made overtures my way, I'd have been game for it (assuming she was single). I'm equally sure I'd look back on the experience with fond memories. To me there's a common sense test for this one. Do any of these high school boys mind that she bedded them down? If the answer is no, and it might not be, then I don't see where the DA should be up in arms about it.

I suppose you could make a case that she might have corrupted these kids with her general behavior, lured them in if you will, but I get the sense she was just kind of a loserish woman who joined in more than she led astray. Anyway, I'd need to hear that these kids never touched booze or the drugs in question before she came along before I put her in the predator category.

[RedFanAlways1966]

RFA, if it was up to you, I'd be in jail right now for shoplifting some baseball cards and getting caught 19 years ago when I was 12.

Not at all, MWM. I know I come across harsh, but I have no sympathy for 41-year-old losers who use drugs and perform sex on teens. It is not like murdering someone, but who knows what effect this might have on all or just one of those kids. And for what reason? I have no idea, but no excuse from this lady is good enough for me. The laws and sentencing guidelines were there before she decided to commit the crime. If the sentencing guidelines were changed after her crime, then I'd have a problem.

And if one of those boys was my kid? Lord have mercy on him for taking those drugs and having to explain to Dad why he made that decision.

[M2]

And if one of those boys was my kid? Lord have mercy on him for taking those drugs and having to explain to Dad why he made that decision.

It's easy to talk that talk, especialy if you don't have kids. You might, I don't know, just saying that I often hear people who don't know squat about raising kids spout out lines like that. But I've known a lot of wannabe hard-ass parents who've found themselves on the short end of that stick and all I can say is Lord have mercy on you if you ever wind up in that situation. That right there is the Chinese fingertrap of parenting.

[RedFanAlways1966]

It's easy to talk that talk, especialy if you don't have kids. You might, I don't know, just saying that I often hear people who don't know squat about raising kids spout out lines like that. But I've known a lot of wannabe hard-ass parents who've found themselves on the short end of that stick and all I can say is Lord have mercy on you if you ever wind up in that situation. That right there is the Chinese fingertrap of parenting.

I appreciate that. I have two kids. My hope is that my wife and I bring them up the right way and never have to worry about these things. But I am not naive enough to think they will not someday come to a fork in the road where one way is right and the other is wrong. I do believe that the route chosen at that time in their life will be helped by the good upbringing that they recieved.

These boys were at this woman's house almost every week for a whole year. Did none of the parents have any idea or even care about the child's whereabouts during these times or know what their child was doing? I am amazed that it went on so long. They were doing drugs and none of the parents had an inkling? I am not a child expert, but it makes me wonder how much time these parents spent with their sons or how well did these parnets know their own kids?

I hope none of us have to deal with this sort of thing. But I also believe that a good upbringing and knowing your child and their whereabouts is probably a good idea.

[M2]

I appreciate that. I have two kids. My hope is that my wife and I bring them up the right way and never have to worry about these things. But I am not naive enough to think they will not someday come to a fork in the road where one way is right and the other is wrong. I do believe that the route chosen at that time in their life will be helped by the good upbringing that they recieved.

These boys were at this woman's house almost every week for a whole year. Did none of the parents have any idea or even care about the child's whereabouts during these times or know what their child was doing? I am amazed that it went on so long. They were doing drugs and none of the parents had an inkling? I am not a child expert, but it makes me wonder how much time these parents spent with their sons or how well did these parnets know their own kids?

I hope none of us have to deal with this sort of thing. But I also believe that a good upbringing and knowing your child and their whereabouts is probably a good idea.

Yeah, it's amazing what paying attention to and talking to your kids will do.

Though when I think back to all of the crap I could have done, but chose not to (as opposed to all of the crap I could have done and did :devil: ), it reminds me that life isn't easy. I knew plenty of good kids from good families who did some real dumb stuff. It's hard to know where your kid is going to draw the line. For whatever reason, I'd sneak down to NYC on a whim, but I stayed away from that enormous pile of blow on the kitchen table of every party I went to in the '80s. Years later, when my sisters (much younger than me) were teens, my parents asked me what sort of stuff I got away with when I was that age. At first they were unpleasantly surprised about some of the wool I pulled over their eyes, but when they heard about the stuff I didn't do they gained an appreciation for the good job they did and for me not being so bad after all.

[CougarQuest]

From looking at that picture, those must've been some serious drugs.

[GAC]

High school kids are old enough to know exactly wht they're doing.

Maybe so. But that doesn't escape or lessen her culpibility. To say -"we're gonna give her a lighter sentence because of an assumption that these boys knew what they were doing or maybe were already doing it anyway" is absurd logic IMO. She is still an adult, and they are minors. Just because these boys may (or may not) have experimented in these areas does not lessen the level of this crime IMO. That is something none of us know at this stage.

My wife and I spend alot of time talking with our teenagers (14 and 17). I can say with absolute certainty that my kids have never experimented with drugs, alcohol, or sex. Why? Again - we've installed what we think are some solid moral values within them, and we talk with them, and we let them know that there is such a thing as trust, because we cannot be there with them at all times. And while they have some freedom, we also, as parents, do not allow them into situation (unchaperoned parties, etc) where the temptation/exposure is there. They are not adults; but still kids.

So I don't need some deviate adult trying to take advantage or subvert that instruction. Yes - I would expect my kids to do the right thing. But if they didn't, that, IMO, doesn't lessen the severity of what this adult did.

So if either of my kids were in that situation, I would hope and count on that education to help them make the right decisions. But there is still that chance, especially when an adult is providing them with drugs and alcohol that would cloud their thinking and judgment.


She's not unduly influencing them based on her role as an adult to do something they wouldn't be doing otherwise.

You don't think the use (or placing the temptation of) drugs and alcohol before these boys isn't "unduly influencing"? We really don't know the background on any of these boys. It doesn't even state how old they were. High School could be 14-15 couldn't it? Doesn't take much, from a coercive adult, to influence these kids. Would that alter anyone's opinion then?


The harm done just isn't enough to end her life. Do you really think having her do what she did caused any real damage to the kids?

Yes. It sure didn't help, or provide a positive/constructive influence. But then I'm no psych major either. I'd like to see what their evaluation would be.

How do we evaluate or measure the amount of harm she may have done to these kids? I have no problem with a 30 year sentence that includes some sort of parole after a mandatory 10 years, along with some sort of counseling.


Now if the drugs she was passing out were along the lines of cocaine, heroine, or ecstacy, then I might reconsider. But if we're talking a little mary jane, then I'm I'm not as concerned.

It's the combination of ALL THREE, the drugs, the alcohol, the sex, that IMO raises the severity of this crime.

[GAC]

From looking at that picture, those must've been some serious drugs.

Drugs and alcohol make most partners look like Brad Pitt or Jennifer Aniston. :lol:

[OldRightHander]

From looking at that picture, those must've been some serious drugs.

Or she put a bag over her face.

[Jaycint]

Or she put a bag over her face.

C'mon now guys, I'm sure if you just found out you were goin' away for 30 years you wouldn't have your prettiest face on either. :)

[CougarQuest]

C'mon now guys, I'm sure if you just found out you were goin' away for 30 years you wouldn't have your prettiest face on either. :)
Maybe so, but I wouldn't put that face on either.

[Jaycint]

Maybe so, but I wouldn't put that face on either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying she's hot by any stretch of the imagination.

[OldRightHander]

C'mon now guys, I'm sure if you just found out you were goin' away for 30 years you wouldn't have your prettiest face on either. :)

Then what's Camilla's excuse?

[Jaycint]

Then what's Camilla's excuse?

C'mon now ORH, you know you'd hit that! I know I would! :D

[GAC]

C'mon now ORH, you know you'd hit that! I know I would! :D

You'd hit this. ;)

http://www.watusi.net/images/ruth_buzzi1.jpg

[Jaycint]

You'd hit this. ;)

http://www.watusi.net/images/ruth_buzzi1.jpg

Haha GAC, it would depend how much alcohol was involved. :laugh:

[WMR]

My wife and I spend alot of time talking with our teenagers (14 and 17). I can say with absolute certainty that my kids have never experimented with drugs, alcohol, or sex.

I don't know your kids, and your assertion here might be 100% accurate, but as a recently-departed teenager, I can think of so many kids I knew whose parents thought of them exactly what you just said while they were really doing what most other kids that age are doing.



"It's a fool's paradise Mrs. Bueller. He's just leading you down the primrose path."

http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com/images/Img150.jpg

[Redsland]

http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com/images/Img150.jpg
Coincidentally (or not), that's a picture of a registered sex offender who plead no-contest to hiring a 14-year-old boy to do things "high school principals" shouldn't contemplate. Link. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000470/)

"What is so dangerous about a character like Ferris Bueller is he gives good kids bad ideas"

:help:

[M2]

Coincidentally (or not), that's a picture of a registered sex offender who plead no-contest to hiring a 14-year-old boy to do things "high school principals" shouldn't contemplate. Link. (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000470/)

"What is so dangerous about a character like Ferris Bueller is he gives good kids bad ideas"

:help:

And he was in "Howard the Duck"

[GAC]

I don't know your kids, and your assertion here might be 100% accurate, but as a recently-departed teenager, I can think of so many kids I knew whose parents thought of them exactly what you just said while they were really doing what most other kids that age are doing.

I fully understand that. But I do have an advantage that my parents didn't have when they were raising us. And that from an "experiential" standpoint, I know what behavior and signs to look out for. ;)

I know I can't keep my kids in a "box"; but I also realize that the world/society we now live in if quite different, and has even greater risks/temptations then it did when I was growing up almost 40 years ago. it's not easy being a parent today, and yes, extra precautions must be taken.

But I also believe in keeping a good line of open communication there with your kids, while also emphasizing solid and sensible values via education. I was a teen once and realize what's involved. Teens listen when you talk and treat them responsibly. But they also understand such as thing as consequuences -not just from the parent, but also from their own actions. ;)

[Larry Schuler]

Perhaps the judge took into account how unattractive the woman was. The boys would either have been forced into the sex or have been really really high to partake in some of that.

[Falls City Beer]

All I know is that the term "sex party" is underused.