Far too early to be throwing in the towel

[BoilerBC11]

It had been a few days since I checked this site, and man was I suprised at the change in attiude of my fellow reds fans. Yes, I am an eternal optimist, but its rediculus to already be writing off this season. If you wernt following the season, you would assume we were a last place team already, but thats definitly not the case! Heck even after todays loss were in the lead for the wild card,and just two games back from the cards. Yea, we may not win the central, but its far to early to be throwing in the towel, let alone calling for the trades of all our star players.

[flyer85]

Rats always are the first to abandon a sinking ship

[macro]

The 1990 Cincinnati Reds lost eight consecutive games between July 24 and July 30. Less than a month later, they lost five consective games between August 17 and August 20. I'm not saying that the 2006 Cincinnati Reds are comparable to the 1990 team in terms of talent or potential, but those losing streaks didn't destroy the 1990 season. It turned out okay. Like Boiler said, it's a bit early to be discussing a housecleaning for this team.

[kbrake]

I dont think March was too early to talk about cleaning house. I am not saying I want to shake things up right this very second, but I think it will be much better for the long term of this franchise if they are sellers at this years deadline as opposed to buyers.

[remdog]

More likely it was far too early to consider this team to be pennant contenders. Most people thought they would be lucky to be a .500 team.

Rem

[Hollcat]

The 1990 Cincinnati Reds lost eight consecutive games between July 24 and July 30. Less than a month later, they lost five consective games between August 17 and August 20. I'm not saying that the 2006 Cincinnati Reds are comparable to the 1990 team in terms of talent or potential, but those losing streaks didn't destroy the 1990 season. It turned out okay. Like Boiler said, it's a bit early to be discussing a housecleaning for this team.


The 1990 team played only two games over .500 from the first of June through the end of the regular season.

[Jr's Boy]

And don't think for a minute that if the drought continues that Krivsky won't shake things up.His first move should be DFA'ing Rick White.

[OnBaseMachine]

Luckily for the Reds the NL stinks this year. I think only the Phillies/Mets, possibly the Astros, maybe the Brewers, and the Reds (if we can add a starting pitcher and a couple BP arms) will be the teams competing the for the NL wildcard. 85-88 wins could win the NL Wildcard. There doesn't appear to be one great team in the NL this year, so while I would be surprised if the Reds were to win the WC, it's not completely out of the question.

[scounts22]

His first move should be DFA'ing Rick White.

Amen, thank you!

[Ltlabner]

Didn't the 1975 team start out pretty slow till mid/late May when they moved Rose to 3B? I'm not comparing this team to the BRM at all, but the point it, if people would have freaked out then, as they are doing now, 1975 and 1976 would have never happened.

Also, we are one year removed from the reign of DanO and all the luncy that it entailed. BC and KRIV took over the team with no offseason to make any moves and scarcely any time before spring training. That didn't give them hardly any time for player moves to start to undue the myrid of problems facing the team. They made a flury of moves, but still, to undue DanO's mess takes a while.

Most of us said we'd be a .500 team +/- a few games, maybe in the hunt for 3rd or something. So to think we are heading to the WS after a strong start is pretty silly and then to be freaking out because we might not make the WS (after a slump) is even sillier.

[PuffyPig]

If the season ended today, we would be in the playoffs.

I'd suggest that would be reason enough not to throw in the towel.

Anyway, my enjoyment of the Reds is not just dependent on them making the playoffs.

[redsmetz]

Didn't the 1975 team start out pretty slow till mid/late May when they moved Rose to 3B? I'm not comparing this team to the BRM at all, but the point it, if people would have freaked out then, as they are doing now, 1975 and 1976 would have never happened.


I just checked Retrosheet.org and we were in 3rd place on May 15, 1975 5.5 games behind L.A.. with Atlanta in 2nd place.

In April we went 12-11, in May we were 16-10. By month's end we were in
2nd place, a game and a half behind the Dodgers. For the rest of the season, the Reds were a lights out 80-33, winning the division by 20 games!

It looks like Rose moved to 3rd base early in the month of May, beginning the game at 3rd, then moving into Left late in the game. I even saw a game where Dan Driessen started in LF with Foster in Right.

By the way, we owned both Atlanta and Chicago that year going 15-3 against the Braves and 11-1 against the Cubbies. The only team we had a losing record with was the Dodgers - we were 8-10against them.

[cumberlandreds]

Didn't the 1975 team start out pretty slow till mid/late May when they moved Rose to 3B? I'm not comparing this team to the BRM at all, but the point it, if people would have freaked out then, as they are doing now, 1975 and 1976 would have never happened.

Also, we are one year removed from the reign of DanO and all the luncy that it entailed. BC and KRIV took over the team with no offseason to make any moves and scarcely any time before spring training. That didn't give them hardly any time for player moves to start to undue the myrid of problems facing the team. They made a flury of moves, but still, to undue DanO's mess takes a while.

Most of us said we'd be a .500 team +/- a few games, maybe in the hunt for 3rd or something. So to think we are heading to the WS after a strong start is pretty silly and then to be freaking out because we might not make the WS (after a slump) is even sillier.



Yes they did start more slowly than this team. Below is the start of the streak that got that team going. The Reds were 21-20 heading into that game against Tom Seaver and the Mets. The Reds knocked Seaver out early and took off on some type of streak like winning 40 out of 50 games. It is too early to throw in the towel but this team is at early season crossroads. Losing five in a row and staring a sweep by the lowly Pirates right in the face is not where you want to be. I think a few key hits and this team will be back on track. Whether they are a playoff team is very questionable but they can be a decent 85 win team.

Game Played on Wednesday, May 21, 1975 (N) at Riverfront Stadium
NY N 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 - 4 11 1
CIN N 0 0 0 3 4 0 1 3 x - 11 13 2
BATTINGNew York Mets AB R H RBI BB SO PO A
Unser cf 5 1 2 2 0 0 3 0
Millan 2b 4 0 2 0 0 1 0 3
Kranepool 1b 3 0 2 1 0 0 10 0
Staub rf 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Torre 3b 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Milner lf 4 1 1 0 0 0 2 0
Grote c 3 1 1 1 0 0 5 0
Stearns c 1 0 0 0 0 0 3 0
Harrelson ss 3 0 0 0 0 0 1 2
Clines ph 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Seaver p 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 1
Baldwin p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gallagher ph 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Hall p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Alou ph 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
Totals 36 4 11 4 0 1 24 7
FIELDING -
E: Millan (9).
BATTING -
2B: Milner (5,off Billingham); Millan (10,off Billingham); Gallagher (1,off
Billingham); Kranepool (4,off Billingham).
SF: Kranepool (1,off Billingham).
Team LOB: 6.
Cincinnati Reds AB R H RBI BB SO PO A
Rose 3b 4 2 1 0 1 0 2 4
Griffey rf 3 1 0 0 1 1 3 0
Rettenmund ph,rf 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0
Morgan 2b 4 1 2 0 0 0 2 4
Flynn 2b 1 1 1 3 0 0 1 0
Bench c 4 1 2 1 0 0 1 0
Plummer ph,c 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
Perez 1b 5 2 2 4 0 2 15 1
Geronimo cf 5 1 1 0 0 2 1 0
Concepcion ss 4 1 2 3 0 1 1 7
Foster lf 4 0 2 0 0 0 1 0
Billingham p 3 0 0 0 1 1 0 2
McEnaney p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Totals 38 11 13 11 4 8 27 18
FIELDING -
DP: 3. Concepcion-Morgan-Perez, Perez-Concepcion-Perez, Concepcion-Morgan-Perez.
E: Rose (2), Concepcion (6).
BATTING -
2B: Bench (12,off Seaver).
HR: Perez (6,4th inning off Seaver 1 on 0 out); Concepcion (3,7th inning off
Hall 0 on 1 out); Flynn (1,8th inning off Hall 2 on 0 out).
Team LOB: 7.
PITCHINGNew York Mets IP H R ER BB SO HR
Seaver L(5-4) 4.2 7 7 3 3 5 1
Baldwin 1.1 3 0 0 0 0 0
Hall 2 3 4 4 1 3 2
Totals 8 13 11 7 4 8 3
Cincinnati Reds IP H R ER BB SO HR
Billingham W(4-3) 7 10 4 3 0 1 0
McEnaney 2 1 0 0 0 0 0
Totals 9 11 4 3 0 1 0
Billingham faced 1 batter in the 8th

[Falls City Beer]

Luckily for the Reds the NL stinks this year. I think only the Phillies/Mets, possibly the Astros, maybe the Brewers, and the Reds (if we can add a starting pitcher and a couple BP arms) will be the teams competing the for the NL wildcard. 85-88 wins could win the NL Wildcard. There doesn't appear to be one great team in the NL this year, so while I would be surprised if the Reds were to win the WC, it's not completely out of the question.

Cardinals are starting to take their typical all-world shape again. That bullpen is outstanding.

Cards are a very good team who will be a great team by the end of the season.

The Reds will be 10 back of the Cards by the middle of June and 3 or 4 back of Milwaukee.

[Benny-Distefano]

Anyway, my enjoyment of the Reds is not just dependent on them making the playoffs.



Mine is. That is to say... if the Reds are in the basement, I quit watching them and just read about them in the paper. But if they are winning, they are fun to watch.

I mean, baseball is baseball. 9 innings of basement ball is NO FUN. I used to listen to every game, from the 80's on through the mid-90's. I was on the edge of my seat for that Reds-Mets 1 game playoff. But this is a new age of baseball. Its the Davids vs the Goliaths. Usually, the Davids arent very much fun to watch. Until they put some kind of salary cap in, I will always be half-yawning.

But, the Reds have been fun to watch this year for the most part. But if they find themselves in the basement by the all-star break, I have a feeling I will go back to just reading the paper.

[edabbs44]

It is insulting to the championship teams being mentioned on this thread to be compared to the 2006 edition. 1990 had The Nasty Boys in the bullpen. Now our BP is just plain nasty.

[Falls City Beer]

Mine is. That is to say... if the Reds are in the basement, I quit watching them and just read about them in the paper. But if they are winning, they are fun to watch.

I mean, baseball is baseball. 9 innings of basement ball is NO FUN. I used to listen to every game, from the 80's on through the mid-90's. I was on the edge of my seat for that Reds-Mets 1 game playoff. But this is a new age of baseball. Its the Davids vs the Goliaths. Usually, the Davids arent very much fun to watch. Until they put some kind of salary cap in, I will always be half-yawning.

But, the Reds have been fun to watch this year for the most part. But if they find themselves in the basement by the all-star break, I have a feeling I will go back to just reading the paper.

These are unpopular sentiments. But sentiments I almost completely agree with.

I have no idea how someone can look at a terrible Reds team and say, "This is fun." It's awful to me. I only continue to follow in the hopes that change is coming.

[redlegs2370]

[QUOTE=Falls City Beer]Cardinals are starting to take their typical all-world shape again. That bullpen is outstanding.

Bullpen outstanding? That can't be, Hancock wasn't good enough for the Reds bullpen but can pitch for the best team in baseball's bullpen.

[Heath]

Rats always are the first to abandon a sinking ship

I guess its you and me and a few others in September.

I love winning, don't get me wrong. But there are two words that always bring me to normal reality after fast starts.


Career Norms.


Just enjoy the winning - and the over direction of this ball club and don't let the Rick Whites of the world wear you down.

[Jr's Boy]

[QUOTE=Falls City Beer]Cardinals are starting to take their typical all-world shape again. That bullpen is outstanding.

Bullpen outstanding? That can't be, Hancock wasn't good enough for the Reds bullpen but can pitch for the best team in baseball's bullpen.


Enough with the ''We should have kept Hancock''diatribe.

[MartyFan]

I dont think March was too early to talk about cleaning house. I am not saying I want to shake things up right this very second, but I think it will be much better for the long term of this franchise if they are sellers at this years deadline as opposed to buyers.

I don't totally disagree...in fact I thought the hot start was more hurtful than helpful to the progress of this team...still, I would not complain one bit if this team is in it in July! :D

[OnBaseMachine]

Cardinals are starting to take their typical all-world shape again. That bullpen is outstanding.

Cards are a very good team who will be a great team by the end of the season.

The Reds will be 10 back of the Cards by the middle of June and 3 or 4 back of Milwaukee.

I have the Cardinals winning the division, but they will choke in the playoffs. Again.

[remdog]

Rats always are the first to abandon a sinking ship

Nice reference to Reds fans here that simply don't agree with the premis of this thread.

Rem

[Falls City Beer]

[QUOTE=redlegs2370]


Enough with the ''We should have kept Hancock''diatribe.

Nice merging of two posters' posts.

I didn't bring up Hancock. Someone else did.

Oh, and come on, it's not like I'm wrong or anything when I do bring him up.

[Krusty]

If Krivsky is smart, he would shake this club up by getting rid of O'Brien's and Kullman's acquistions like Williams, White and Hammond.

[cincrazy]

It's definitely too early to throw in any towel. We're not as good as we were playing earlier, when Phillips and others were ridiculously hot. But we're not anywhere near being as bad as this losing streak suggests. The fact is, Arroyo's not going to have an ERA around 2 all season, Harang can't be great every start, and the bats will go cold every now and then. I think people are more inclined to feel like a big time collapse is coming because of this team's history of starting hot and then fading. And until this team can maintain a hot start, that paranoia will always linger. Hopefully this team is different this year. Falling behind 6-0 vs. Pitt., in the midst of what is already a 5 game losing streak, yet battling back to win it (game's not over yet, but hopefully we hold on) is a great sign that this team won't quit on us. Maybe it's not a playoff team, but it's definitely not a last place team. All we can do is let the season play out.

[macro]

When the sun comes up tomorrow morning, June 9, the Detroit Tigers will have 38 wins. The Cincinnati Reds will have 36. None of the other 28 teams will have more. Who woulda thunk?

[red-in-la]

I think what has made this team come together and stop the 3 error a game nonsense and stop giving away walks has been Krivsky's penchant for the DFA rule. This is still a young team, but it just strikes me that the current winning ways came not long after William's trip outta town.

Krivsky's trades have been tremendous also.....so far.

[E. Davis 44]

The Reds will be 10 back of the Cards by the middle of June and 3 or 4 back of Milwaukee.

wish I would have put some money up against this quote!

[GoReds]

I think what has made this team come together and stop the 3 error a game nonsense and stop giving away walks has been Krivsky's penchant for the DFA rule. This is still a young team, but it just strikes me that the current winning ways came not long after William's trip outta town.

Krivsky's trades have been tremendous also.....so far.

Almost every quote I've seen lately from the players points to the second game against the Cubs a week ago that they lost in embarrasing fashion 8-3, as the turning point in their season. The players took responsibility, realized that they had to play to their ability every game and we are seeing the results.

Now the rest is up to Krivisky. The ball is now in his court to make a couple of moves to improve the bullpen. If he can do that - and it shouldn't be terribly difficult - the Reds should be in it all year.

[smith288]

wish I would have put some money up against this quote!
If I didnt know any better, I'd assume FCB is George Grande.