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edabbs44
05-18-2006, 06:02 PM
So can we re-think sending Elizardo to AAA in favor of Williams please??
I think that's a given.

Ltlabner
05-18-2006, 06:20 PM
Yesterday I posted that they would give Willaims a little more time to see if he can get himself together but to keep him on a short leash. I'd say it's time to yank that leash tight and send him to the dog house pronto.

Maybe Rick White can help cary his bags to the train station?

Chip R
05-18-2006, 06:41 PM
Dave Williams: He Knows How To Win (or not lose in this case). :lol:

Falls City Beer
05-18-2006, 06:52 PM
The Pirates scored 25 runs against the Reds this series. Ack. That's about as comforting as bacon pajamas.

Caveat Emperor
05-18-2006, 07:37 PM
The Pirates scored 25 runs against the Reds this series. Ack. That's about as comforting bacon pajamas.

I look at this is a "market correction" for a pitching staff that had been overperforming for the better part of a week.

Just another bump in the road to, eventually, somewhere between 75-80 wins.

Big Klu
05-18-2006, 08:51 PM
No changes this series.


Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Eric Davis - 203
7. Barry Larkin - 198
8. Vada Pinson - 186
9. Wally Post - 172
10. Adam Dunn - 171
11. Gus Bell - 160
12. Joe Morgan - 152
12. Pete Rose - 152
14. Lee May - 147
15. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 141
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

Red in Chicago
05-18-2006, 09:02 PM
No changes this series.


Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Eric Davis - 203
7. Barry Larkin - 198
8. Vada Pinson - 186
9. Wally Post - 172
10. Adam Dunn - 171
11. Gus Bell - 160
12. Joe Morgan - 152
12. Pete Rose - 152
14. Lee May - 147
15. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 141
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96


it seems like the reds should have more players with at least 200 home runs, considering their rich tradition...and who would have thought that junior would only be knocking on lee may's door in the year 2006 vs foster's or that of the big klu...

ochre
05-18-2006, 09:09 PM
it seems like the reds should have more players with at least 200 home runs, considering their rich tradition...and who would have thought that junior would only be knocking on lee may's door in the year 2006 vs foster's or that of the big klu...
I think Crosley was a huge pitchers park for quite some time. I think woy might have the details on that :)

reds44
05-18-2006, 09:13 PM
Did the Reds take outdoor BP today?

Big Klu
05-18-2006, 09:16 PM
I think Crosley was a huge pitchers park for quite some time. I think woy might have the details on that :)

Also, this list only includes home runs that were hit while in a Reds uniform. So guys like Ken Griffey Jr., Joe Morgan, Lee May, Dave Parker, Reggie Sanders, and Paul O'Neill--who all had success with other clubs as well as the Reds--are not higher on the list.

WVRedsFan
05-19-2006, 03:02 AM
Having just gone through the second half of this game thread, I feel compelled to say something that feeds an argument I detest (sorry). Lay off poor Adam Dunn. He is a gift to this team and there are numerous other threads that prove why statistically. He's far from perfect in the field and he can't always be perfect at the plate. But the fans of many other teams that I know would still give their eyeteeth to have him and I just can't believe that people are so quick to take for granted what he means to this team. (I could say much the same for LaRue.) This is a team that employs Dave Williams and His Unmerry Bullpen from Hell, and you all want to pick on Adam Freaking Dunn? He could well be the only person on this current team who goes into the Hall of Fame as a Red. Come on.

These game threads are not nearly as much fun as they used to be, and the constant bickering over the same useless statistic (RISP, ahhhhhhh) is really tiresome. I do like a good joke once in a while, but I get the impression that a lot of you really do believe that this team's troubles are due to adam Dunn or are just lazily using him as a scapegoat, and I think you should read up and smile.

Tremendous post. I didn't get to see the game. I was at work with no cable and no radio coverage. The only lifeline to the Reds was this board. What I learned was the Reds suck, Adam Dunn sucks, Junior sucks (at least his legs do), Williams sucks, Hatteberg sucks, McCracken sucks, Kearns sucks, Denorfia is god of everything, and Dunn should go to first (even though he sucks), Griffey should go to left (he'd suck less), and Denorfia should be playing all 9 positions (and this a guy who is in AAA and hasn't proven anything to me--yet). Somehow, I lost three innings while everyone was sucking.

This was the first game I had to follow courtesty of the game thread and will be the last. Yes, I make stupid comments from time to time around here, and thankfuly most know it's just emotion, but every game thread is always the same--how bad we are and how lucky we are and we're going to finish last in the division, and even the front office sucks for not making the moves mentioned earlier.

In all of this sucking, we seemed to somehow win the game to go back to 7 games over .500. Not bad, I'd say, but then again, I suck. I guess.

membengal
05-19-2006, 07:45 AM
So....the Reds came back and won this one, right?

OldXOhio
05-19-2006, 09:33 AM
What I learned was the Reds suck, Adam Dunn sucks, Junior sucks (at least his legs do), Williams sucks, Hatteberg sucks, McCracken sucks, Kearns sucks, Denorfia is god of everything, and Dunn should go to first (even though he sucks), Griffey should go to left (he'd suck less), and Denorfia should be playing all 9 positions (and this a guy who is in AAA and hasn't proven anything to me--yet). Somehow, I lost three innings while everyone was sucking.



Good post. When you hear sportswriters and broadcasters referring to those "internet message board lunatics" when making mention of sites like RedsZone, you now know why they say some of what they do. Sadly, the posts like those that you mention above are as noteworthy as the many others on here that make sound, statistically supported arguments. And not that I care so much what those writers think, it's just that until recently, I never gave much credence to their criticism. Seeing the litany of "he sucks" and "this team sucks" posts that continue to be offered in the face of this team's start has me wondering whether it's worth following the gameday threads any longer as well.

Falls City Beer
05-19-2006, 09:52 AM
As long as the posts are within the framework of the rules, I have no problem with invective. The game posts are about emotional responses, not measured treatises, IMO. As long as single word posts, like "Great", or emoticon posts without game updates are kept to a bare minimum, I like the heat of the moment comments for the most part. Let's face it, the Reds of the last 6 + seasons have sucked something fierce. Measured analysis is great, but we're not writing a book here--this is my escape, not my workplace.

Oh, and the good people at Redszone analyze circles around ANY sports journalist I've EVER read.

lollipopcurve
05-19-2006, 10:02 AM
Seeing the litany of "he sucks" and "this team sucks" posts that continue to be offered in the face of this team's start has me wondering whether it's worth following the gameday threads any longer as well.

It is what it is. Personally, I loved the game threads where Doc or CE narrated for the most part. Lately, well... better for me to get off the bus and walk the rest of the way.

Ltlabner
05-19-2006, 11:45 AM
I have to tell you guys, that as negitive as things can be, count your blessings that this site is moderated and generally visited by people who make arguments with facts, not yell and scream. There are dissagreements and people with obvious agendas here, but overall it's a "discussion" about baseball.

I reciently gave up on the cincinnati.com forum because every post, especially on the game threads, amounts to everything sucks, everybody sucks, all the fans are morons, suck, suck, suck. Even in the first month, in the middle of a stellar start to the year, there was a core of people chanting, "the reds suck".

There are very little facts used, and all arguments are "backed up" with "you are an idiot if you believe...." In the past two months it's been completly destroyed and now 97% of the posts are name calling, this sucks and that sucks.

Anyway, trust me, this is a far better site than any other out there I've found.

TeamBoone
05-19-2006, 02:21 PM
Friday, May 19, 2006

Reds erase deficit, doubts
Bats awaken after Pirates rock Williams
BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

PITTSBURGH - About the time the ball Jason Bay hit set sail for the left-field seats, you probably figured the Reds were done for the day. You had to wonder if this was the beginning of the end for 2006.

A loss would have been the Reds' sixth in a row. The Pirates would have swept the series.

We say "would have" because the Reds, a team that had scored 10 runs in its previous five games, came back to score nine times in eight innings Thursday and beat the Pirates 9-8 at PNC Park.

Big win, eh?

"Absolutely," reliever Todd Coffey said. "It was definitely a big game to win. You don't want to go too high or too low."

Coffey could have added that a loss would have put the Reds at their low point of the year.

The Reds are, after all, a team most experts picked to finish fifth or sixth in the National League Central.

And a sweep by Pittsburgh, the NL Central's sixth-place team, would have had fans wondering if the Reds were leveling off.

It's foolhardy to make too much of any one game in the course of a 162-game season. But you have to credit the Reds for the way they won Thursday.

Bay's grand slam was the big blow of the six-run first the Pirates hung on ex-teammate Dave Williams.

Down 6-0 on a get-away day?

Fire up the bus.

The reeling Reds seemed bound for Detroit on a horrible skid.

But they kept coming back. And back. And back.

"It shows a little bit of the character of this team, not giving up," Ken Griffey Jr. said. "We came up with a tough one, and a long one."

It takes awhile to come back from a 6-0 deficit.

The Reds hadn't been down 6-0 and won since July 13, 2003, when they trailed Milwaukee 7-1 and ended up winning 10-8 in 12 innings.

Jason LaRue hit a two-run home run in the second inning to get things started. The Reds added another run in the fourth and two more in the fifth, including one off a home run by Austin Kearns.

"There was no panic from the players," said LaRue, who had a career-high four hits. "You've just got to go out and play station-to-station baseball, do the little things."

The Reds took control of the game in the seventh.

The inning started with doubles by Scott Hatteberg and Edwin Encarnacion. Ryan Freel singled in Encarnacion to tie it at 7-7.

Pinch hitter Javier Valentin and Felipe Lopez walked to load the bases.

But Adam Dunn struck out on three pitches for the second out, and you could feel the bad karma that has followed the Reds on the losing streak.

Then Griffey dropped a single into left and drove in two runs - the 1,549th and 1,550th RBI of his career.

"I was just trying not to strike out," Griffey said. "(Pirates left-handed reliever Damaso Marte's) tough on lefties. He's throwing 94 (mph). He got it in there a little bit. But I was able to get it far enough to the outfield and near enough to the infield to fall."

Was that the hit that turns things around? We'll see.

The Reds never figured out what started the funk that led to the five-game losing streak.

"That's baseball," LaRue said. "People catch on to slumps. You get cold at the same time. The easiest way to explain it is baseball's a game of ups and downs, and there for five games, the offense didn't do too much."

Narron thinks in some odd way the 6-0 deficit might have gotten the offense going.

"I don't know," he said. "We got down so much early in the game that it might have given everybody a chance to relax a little bit."


http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060519/SPT04/605190349/1071

Raisor
05-19-2006, 03:34 PM
I have to tell you guys, that as negitive as things can be, count your blessings that this site is moderated and generally visited by people who make arguments with facts, not yell and scream. There are dissagreements and people with obvious agendas here, but overall it's a "discussion" about baseball.

I reciently gave up on the cincinnati.com forum because every post, especially on the game threads, amounts to everything sucks, everybody sucks, all the fans are morons, suck, suck, suck. Even in the first month, in the middle of a stellar start to the year, there was a core of people chanting, "the reds suck".

There are very little facts used, and all arguments are "backed up" with "you are an idiot if you believe...." In the past two months it's been completly destroyed and now 97% of the posts are name calling, this sucks and that sucks.

Anyway, trust me, this is a far better site than any other out there I've found.


I still occasionally drop by the Reds.com MB, just because I like watching train wrecks.

CTA513
05-19-2006, 03:37 PM
I still occasionally drop by the Reds.com MB, just because I like watching train wrecks.

People think Dunn gets bashed alot here, just look at how much he gets bashed over there. Then you have people that only make posts to bash the Reds when they lose. We should be happy that we dont have "Cubanbaseball" and "William Spencers" posting on this board.

:eek:

BRM
05-19-2006, 03:39 PM
I still occasionally drop by the Reds.com MB, just because I like watching train wrecks.

I read a few threads over there the other day. Looked to me like you were enjoying another Adam Dunn debate with our old pal. ;)

CTA513
05-19-2006, 04:16 PM
I read a few threads over there the other day. Looked to me like you were enjoying another Adam Dunn debate with our old pal. ;)

Prose14 aka Badfundamentals?
Ive never seen someone hate a person more than he hates Dunn.
Almost every post he makes is about how much Dunn stinks.
I think he has a man crush for Dunn and is to afraid to admit it.

:p:

pedro
05-19-2006, 04:18 PM
Prose14 aka Badfundamentals?
Ive never seen someone hate a person more than he hates Dunn.
Almost every post he makes is about how much Dunn stinks.
I think he has a man crush for Dunn and is to afraid to admit it.

:p:


FCB's hatred of Kearns is pushing for that title IMO. Although, granted, there are more historical reasons for FCB to feel the way he does.

Falls City Beer
05-19-2006, 04:25 PM
FCB's hatred of Kearns is pushing for that title IMO. Although, granted, there are more historical reasons for FCB to feel the way he does.

If the Reds extend a guy who went on Operation Shutdown last season, I'll turn my bile towards Krivsky and not Kearns. I promise.

But if Krivsky brings back Tomko, I'm gone....:)

Caveat Emperor
05-19-2006, 04:56 PM
Prose14 aka Badfundamentals?
Ive never seen someone hate a person more than he hates Dunn.
Almost every post he makes is about how much Dunn stinks.
I think he has a man crush for Dunn and is to afraid to admit it.

:p:

He throws "RedsZone" out like a 4 letter word over there. I never knew they were the same people -- explains a lot.