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edabbs44
05-23-2006, 11:22 PM
Since I find myself repeating the same statements every day, I'm just going to post what my feelings about many of the arguments/discussions currently running rampant on the board and then, hopefully, I can get back to rooting on the team towards the playoffs. After reading one of the threads on the ORG board I can see where the never ending BS about the same subjects can get annoying. If you want to rename this thread "Steel Cage Battle Royal", we can all brawl in this thread about everything and anything regarding the Reds. The game threads used to be a lot better when they didn't turn into chat rooms...that was something that really made sense when I read it. Threads are what hey are...threads about the game. I think I was one of those violators, using the thread as my personal microphone. And the threads in Reds Live have sucked this week, though tonight's was a bit better. Here it goes:

1) First and foremost, the bullpen: It is quite obvious that the BP is a disaster. Todd Coffey is our best reliever and his last two outings he was used to protect 4 and 5 run leads. Scary. Tonight I can see since he hadn't pitched since Friday. But Friday's appearance was completely unwarranted, especially since he had pitched a lot recently. That just shows the current state of the bullpen. Coffey throws a lot of multi-inning games and they better get him some help or else he will be very, very tired during the stretch run. It boggles my mind that our BP has had this many useless pitchers. How did Burns have a job? How does White still have one? Kriv has to get some help there or else it will be a long summer. Getting Willis wouldn't mean squat if we have RW coming in after him.

2) Junior in CF: Again, a topic that has been beaten to death. I honestly can't see him being completely healthy for the rest of the season if he remains in CF. I think that if he is the reason why he hasn't moved to LF then he needs an ego check. If management hasn't approached him about it, then maybe it's time. Even a few times per week would help. The guy had a mystery knee injury that held him out for weeks earlier this season, after he was supposed to take a day off. He isn't exactly Ripken or Gehrig and we have seen over the past few games how important his bat can be. It would be a shame to see him pull a hammy running for a blooper in left center. Then we would be forced to see if all those fables about The Great Denorfia would be true.

3) Dunn: Dunn is what he is. Hits bombs, takes walks and strikes out a whole lot. Once we all face facts, it will be a lot less stressful the next time he whiffs with RISP. The shame of it all is if he hit for a higher average, he would be Pujols Jr, which would be great. But he is Adam Dunn, he of the 140 BBs, 180Ks and 45 HRs.

4) Fielding: The infield is young! EdE and FeLo are very young and have great futures ahead of them. Obviously (hopefully?) they will get better, but let us enjoy their bats and sparkling plays for now. They will get better...trust me.

5) Catching situation: No idea here...still gets me why we have all these guys.

6) Rick White: Hopefully Mercker pushes this guy into the glue factory. If he doesn't, I'll probably lose it.

7) MLB Draft: If they don't draft a top college pitcher and go after some bargain HS pitcher, I'll lose it more than if White sticks around for a few more weeks.

8) Chris Denorfia: I love the Deno jokes, they crack me up. Though I think he brings more value to this team than Q does, jokes aside.

That's it...thanks for listening.

jimbo
05-23-2006, 11:47 PM
I agree with about everything you are saying except for 2 and 8.

I don't like the idea of babying Griffey by playing him in a position he is not familiar with, with the idea it will be easier on his legs. If he is going to get injured running, it will happen on the basepaths or in left if it doesn't happen in center. As you said with Dunn, you just have to accept that Griffey is what he is, an aging veteran who will have his share of injuries. Hopefully, he can avoid the season ending injuries but the risk will never leave no matter where you put him. Giving him scheduled days off is the way to go as far as protecting him at this point. Again, I like the idea of trying him at first......but not mid-season.

I don't want Denorfia up here unless he is playing everyday. Dropping McCracken and bringing him up to be a pinch hitter and rare spot starter does not help his development. He needs to play everyday and he will in Louisville, not with the Reds.

Ron Madden
05-24-2006, 03:02 AM
Since I find myself repeating the same statements every day, I'm just going to post what my feelings about many of the arguments/discussions currently running rampant on the board and then, hopefully, I can get back to rooting on the team towards the playoffs. After reading one of the threads on the ORG board I can see where the never ending BS about the same subjects can get annoying. If you want to rename this thread "Steel Cage Battle Royal", we can all brawl in this thread about everything and anything regarding the Reds. The game threads used to be a lot better when they didn't turn into chat rooms...that was something that really made sense when I read it. Threads are what hey are...threads about the game. I think I was one of those violators, using the thread as my personal microphone. And the threads in Reds Live have sucked this week, though tonight's was a bit better. Here it goes:

1) First and foremost, the bullpen: It is quite obvious that the BP is a disaster. Todd Coffey is our best reliever and his last two outings he was used to protect 4 and 5 run leads. Scary. Tonight I can see since he hadn't pitched since Friday. But Friday's appearance was completely unwarranted, especially since he had pitched a lot recently. That just shows the current state of the bullpen. Coffey throws a lot of multi-inning games and they better get him some help or else he will be very, very tired during the stretch run. It boggles my mind that our BP has had this many useless pitchers. How did Burns have a job? How does White still have one? Kriv has to get some help there or else it will be a long summer. Getting Willis wouldn't mean squat if we have RW coming in after him.

2) Junior in CF: Again, a topic that has been beaten to death. I honestly can't see him being completely healthy for the rest of the season if he remains in CF. I think that if he is the reason why he hasn't moved to LF then he needs an ego check. If management hasn't approached him about it, then maybe it's time. Even a few times per week would help. The guy had a mystery knee injury that held him out for weeks earlier this season, after he was supposed to take a day off. He isn't exactly Ripken or Gehrig and we have seen over the past few games how important his bat can be. It would be a shame to see him pull a hammy running for a blooper in left center. Then we would be forced to see if all those fables about The Great Denorfia would be true.

3) Dunn: Dunn is what he is. Hits bombs, takes walks and strikes out a whole lot. Once we all face facts, it will be a lot less stressful the next time he whiffs with RISP. The shame of it all is if he hit for a higher average, he would be Pujols Jr, which would be great. But he is Adam Dunn, he of the 140 BBs, 180Ks and 45 HRs.

4) Fielding: The infield is young! EdE and FeLo are very young and have great futures ahead of them. Obviously (hopefully?) they will get better, but let us enjoy their bats and sparkling plays for now. They will get better...trust me.

5) Catching situation: No idea here...still gets me why we have all these guys.

6) Rick White: Hopefully Mercker pushes this guy into the glue factory. If he doesn't, I'll probably lose it.

7) MLB Draft: If they don't draft a top college pitcher and go after some bargain HS pitcher, I'll lose it more than if White sticks around for a few more weeks.

8) Chris Denorfia: I love the Deno jokes, they crack me up. Though I think he brings more value to this team than Q does, jokes aside.

That's it...thanks for listening.

Edabbs44,

You have every right in the world to your opinion.
You also have the rght to post your opinions.

Other members of RedsZone have those same rights.


If your opinion ever differs with another members opinion discuss and debate it.

The main thing is use facts to back your argument and to always keep an open mind.

We never know when we might learn something.

Thats what's so great about RedsZone.

billy117
05-24-2006, 09:56 AM
um, could you repeat that

edabbs44
05-24-2006, 10:02 AM
I agree with about everything you are saying except for 2 and 8.

I don't like the idea of babying Griffey by playing him in a position he is not familiar with, with the idea it will be easier on his legs. If he is going to get injured running, it will happen on the basepaths or in left if it doesn't happen in center. As you said with Dunn, you just have to accept that Griffey is what he is, an aging veteran who will have his share of injuries. Hopefully, he can avoid the season ending injuries but the risk will never leave no matter where you put him. Giving him scheduled days off is the way to go as far as protecting him at this point. Again, I like the idea of trying him at first......but not mid-season.

I don't want Denorfia up here unless he is playing everyday. Dropping McCracken and bringing him up to be a pinch hitter and rare spot starter does not help his development. He needs to play everyday and he will in Louisville, not with the Reds.

I see where you are coming from on those points, but I just won't be able to deal with another injury to Jr and my personal opinion is that CF will take a bigger toll on his legs than CF. Even having him play LF a few times per week would help his situation, IMO.
Deno, on the other hand, I think should definitely be up with the big club full time. He isn't a prospect anymore and I don't think having him in AAA serves any purpose. He would be able to get enough ABs to keep him fresh and I think he would be great as a late inning pinch runner and defensive replacement. In the NL you need to have a deep bench with all the double switching and he would be great to put in LF for Dunn or CF for Grif in the 9th. Let's see what Cody Ross can bring to the table, but he is an unknown qty at this point and Q is just taking up space.

buckeyenut
05-24-2006, 09:14 PM
I agree with about everything you are saying except for 2 and 8.

I don't like the idea of babying Griffey by playing him in a position he is not familiar with, with the idea it will be easier on his legs. If he is going to get injured running, it will happen on the basepaths or in left if it doesn't happen in center. As you said with Dunn, you just have to accept that Griffey is what he is, an aging veteran who will have his share of injuries. Hopefully, he can avoid the season ending injuries but the risk will never leave no matter where you put him. Giving him scheduled days off is the way to go as far as protecting him at this point. Again, I like the idea of trying him at first......but not mid-season.

I don't want Denorfia up here unless he is playing everyday. Dropping McCracken and bringing him up to be a pinch hitter and rare spot starter does not help his development. He needs to play everyday and he will in Louisville, not with the Reds.

Jr getting hurt in only part of the issue. The other issue is Jrs subpar range. Him moving to LF theoretically helps him and it also helps the team, if Dunn goes to first.

billy117
05-24-2006, 09:55 PM
Jr getting hurt in only part of the issue. The other issue is Jrs subpar range. Him moving to LF theoretically helps him and it also helps the team, if Dunn goes to first.

now i atleast understand that argument, that he perhaps has lost a step or two. maybe, maybe not....but i think he can get hurt just as easily in LF as CF eric davis still got hurt all the time in LF

James B.
05-24-2006, 10:39 PM
I don't think that the bullpen is that bad. Rick White is horrible but other than that I have been pleased with what they are doing.

edabbs44
05-24-2006, 10:46 PM
I don't think that the bullpen is that bad. Rick White is horrible but other than that I have been pleased with what they are doing.
When TC and DW are the only relievers allowed to pitch in the 8th and 9th innings (and sometimes 7th) when they have a lead, the BP needs help. Don't forget Burns has been released, White has been awful, Shack has been horrendous (except vs lefties) and Hammond was awful and is now good. He'll revert to somewhere in the middle. He isn't as good as he's been. And Belisle has been pretty bad as well. Who are you happy with?

jimbo
05-24-2006, 11:23 PM
Jr getting hurt in only part of the issue. The other issue is Jrs subpar range. Him moving to LF theoretically helps him and it also helps the team, if Dunn goes to first.

His "lack of range" he makes up with his experience at his position. There is a lot more to playing the outfield than running. He may lack some of that "range" nowadays, but he is still the best center fielder on the team.

savafan
05-25-2006, 02:49 AM
I don't want Denorfia up here unless he is playing everyday. Dropping McCracken and bringing him up to be a pinch hitter and rare spot starter does not help his development. He needs to play everyday and he will in Louisville, not with the Reds.

Do you think Denorfia will ever be an everyday allstar caliber player? I tend to think he'll be more like Brady Clark as a Red.

jimbo
05-25-2006, 02:55 AM
Do you think Denorfia will ever be an everyday allstar caliber player? I tend to think he'll be more like Brady Clark as a Red.

I tend to think he will be a Brady Clark type player.......but a bit better.

TOBTTReds
05-25-2006, 02:57 AM
Do you think Denorfia will ever be an everyday allstar caliber player? I tend to think he'll be more like Brady Clark as a Red.

I'm hoping for the Brady Clark of last year. He should be average at everything but fielding should be a plus. Hopefully hit for .300 and OPS .750 or so. He has a VERY level swing, which is the main difference from him and BC. Lots of good line drives off of Deno's bat. I wouldn't mind him up here even if on the bench. He will hit anywhere, even if he doesn't get 500 AB's a season. IMO, he has reached his peak no matter how much longer he is in AAA, and I don't think riding pine will effect him too much. Who knows though.

KronoRed
05-25-2006, 02:58 AM
I tend to think he will be a Brady Clark type player.......but a bit better.

/\ Agreed and I'll take that, I like that he draws walks and can hit and play good D, allstar? they get expensive ;)

SS Lopez
CF Deno
LF JR
1B Dunn
RF Kearns
3B EE
2B Phillips
C The 3 headed monster

Such a lineup gives me giggles :D

Highlifeman21
05-25-2006, 01:05 PM
/\ Agreed and I'll take that, I like that he draws walks and can hit and play good D, allstar? they get expensive ;)

SS Lopez
CF Deno
LF JR
1B Dunn
RF Kearns
3B EE
2B Phillips
C The 3 headed monster

Such a lineup gives me giggles :D


Like a little schoolgirl...

Swap Lopez and Phillips' positions, and you had me at hello...

TOBTTReds
05-25-2006, 01:12 PM
Like a little schoolgirl...

Swap Lopez and Phillips' positions, and you had me at hello...

Someone who hasn't played the game can't tell someone they should move positions - Joe Morg....errr, I mean Ken Griffey Jr. said that today in the Enquirer. :angry:



"For somebody who can't play this (expletive) game to sit there and criticize me ..." he said.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060525/SPT04/605250350/1071

edabbs44
05-25-2006, 01:16 PM
I tend to think he will be a Brady Clark type player.......but a bit better.
Nope, he will be a Roberto Petagine type player...someone who never gets a permanent call b/c of all-stars like Q clogging the way to the majors. It makes so much sense.

TOBTTReds
05-25-2006, 01:35 PM
Nope, he will be a Roberto Petagine type player...someone who never gets a permanent call b/c of all-stars like Q clogging the way to the majors. It makes so much sense.

Even if Q was gone, Deno wouldn't be playing.

KoryMac5
05-25-2006, 01:42 PM
Griffey does not have the speed he once had but he never was that quick to begin with. The key to Griffey is positioning, if he plays a hitter the right way he can get to any ball that the best ones can. His problem is when he doesn't play a hitter just right he doesn't have the speed to recover like the elite CF do. I keep him in Center he will know when it is time to make a switch. Hopefully to lengthen his career he will start takin some defense at first base.

A big omission last night was David Ross not being in the lineup he is hitting 389BA vs lefties while Larue is batting .115 against lefties this year.

Lopez and Phillips 1 and 2 in the order looked pretty good to me the other night.

Lastly the Big Ham looks to be rounding into good shape that ERA continues to go south Mercker could find himself in another town come trade time

TOBTTReds
05-25-2006, 01:48 PM
Griffey does not have the speed he once had but he never was that quick to begin with. The key to Griffey is positioning, if he plays a hitter the right way he can get to any ball that the best ones can.

This should be the coaches job. If Freel is in CF and playing out of position, then the coaches should move him, they have the scouting reports right in front of them for every player.

A lot of people say he knows where to position himself, but the coaches should be the ones telling people where to be. And I bet that Freel is no more than 10 feet off where Griffey would be when in CF, he sure covers more than 10 feet more than Griffey too.

KoryMac5
05-25-2006, 07:21 PM
This should be the coaches job. If Freel is in CF and playing out of position, then the coaches should move him, they have the scouting reports right in front of them for every player.

A lot of people say he knows where to position himself, but the coaches should be the ones telling people where to be. And I bet that Freel is no more than 10 feet off where Griffey would be when in CF, he sure covers more than 10 feet more than Griffey too.


I feel it is a real rarity when coaches stand out on the dugout steps and tell a player where to stand anymore. A guy like Griffey has been around 18 years and I feel he has the experience and knowledge needed to be able to know where certain guys hit and where they don't.

James B.
05-25-2006, 07:34 PM
When TC and DW are the only relievers allowed to pitch in the 8th and 9th innings (and sometimes 7th) when they have a lead, the BP needs help. Don't forget Burns has been released, White has been awful, Shack has been horrendous (except vs lefties) and Hammond was awful and is now good. He'll revert to somewhere in the middle. He isn't as good as he's been. And Belisle has been pretty bad as well. Who are you happy with?

Like I said other than White the bullpen has not been that bad. They are not great but they are getting the job done. They do need to replace White with one good arm possibly a closer. The defense has been more of a problem than the bullpen.