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Reds Fanatic
05-29-2006, 05:56 PM
That replay showed it hit off the brick above the basket and back on the field but it looks like the umps are keeping it a double.

KronoRed
05-29-2006, 05:56 PM
Is it time to boo?

oneupper
05-29-2006, 05:56 PM
That may have been a homer called incorrectly. It may have gotten into the basket and bounced out.

If it did, that's a homer.

That's exactly what happened. Not that it matters really.

CTA513
05-29-2006, 05:57 PM
the umpires stick it to the Reds again.

:thumbdown

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 05:57 PM
Kearns would be on the block with other teams dangling a good arm for him.

If this is the Kearns we've been waiting for since Ray King sat on his shoulder, I pray we dont trade him. The FA pool this offseason will be strong. With a strong draft this year(college oriented), a couple astute offseason signings, and we could very well be in the thick of things with most of the current core group IMHO.

KronoRed
05-29-2006, 05:57 PM
Poor Freel...not like he hits homers a lot ;)

Falls City Beer
05-29-2006, 05:58 PM
If this is the Kearns we've been waiting for since Ray King sat on his shoulder, I pray we dont trade him. The FA pool this offseason will be strong. With a strong draft this year(college oriented), a couple astute offseason signings, and we could very well be in the thick of things with most of the current core group IMHO.


I've said it a million times, I know. But keeping Kearns beyond this season is a recipe for disaster.

Reds Fanatic
05-29-2006, 05:58 PM
Larue can't check his swing and strikes out. 1 out.

Matt700wlw
05-29-2006, 05:58 PM
Larue is terrible.

Aronchis
05-29-2006, 05:58 PM
If this is the Kearns we've been waiting for since Ray King sat on his shoulder, I pray we dont trade him. The FA pool this offseason will be strong. With a strong draft this year(college oriented), a couple astute offseason signings, and we could very well be in the thick of things with most of the current core group IMHO.

But it is not that Kearns. Living in the past is a bad thing to do. With Deno hanging around, the Reds don't need Kearns and with his injury history, the time can't come soon enough. We need to cash Kearns in.

KronoRed
05-29-2006, 05:58 PM
Larue is terrible.
Whole team is terrible right now.

Call up the Bats

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 05:58 PM
Sometimes I wish there was Instant Replay in baseball... Umps have been terrible all... year... long...

pedro
05-29-2006, 05:59 PM
He has been so far this season. But he usually does start pretty slow.

Reds Fanatic
05-29-2006, 05:59 PM
Valentin pinch hits and fouls out to 3rd. 2 outs.

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 06:00 PM
I've said it a million times, I know. But keeping Kearns beyond this season is a recipe for disaster.

Maybe I'm not familiar with your reasonings FCB... You think this is an illusion?

I dont see what the harm is keeping him beyond this year, assuming of course he can keep his current pace up all year. If Rcast wants to win, and win now, I dont see how you can trade Kearns unless you really get a difference making pitcher.

KronoRed
05-29-2006, 06:01 PM
Game over.

Reds Fanatic
05-29-2006, 06:01 PM
Lopez strikes out. Cubs win 7-3. Horrible start to the road trip.

Larry Schuler
05-29-2006, 06:01 PM
Interesting strike. Reminded me of when Richie Sexson used to be in the league.

Falls City Beer
05-29-2006, 06:02 PM
Maybe I'm not familiar with your reasonings FCB... You think this is an illusion?

I dont see what the harm is keeping him beyond this year, assuming of course he can keep his current pace up all year. If Rcast wants to win, and win now, I dont see how you can trade Kearns unless you really get a difference making pitcher.

FA on the near horizon. As M2's pointed out, old player skill set. Very injury prone. Not signed to a reasonable contract, so next year he'll get a ton that he doesn't deserve in arbitration. He is ripe for the cashing in.

oneupper
05-29-2006, 06:03 PM
We were lucky to get that win Sunday or else we'd be the ones with the streak.

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 06:03 PM
But it is not that Kearns. Living in the past is a bad thing to do. With Deno hanging around, the Reds don't need Kearns and with his injury history, the time can't come soon enough. We need to cash Kearns in.

Says who? I know its only 2 months of ball, but this is what we've all come to expect from Kearns...

if living in the past is a bad thing to do, then why are you hanging on to his injury history and poor performance? Isn't it feasable that he's turned it around?

I'll acknowledge that this could very well be smoke and mirrors. But on the other hand, it very well could be Kearns finally blossoming into what we all thought he would/should be... And if its a case of him finally finding his swing, why would you want to trade him when he brings that and his defense to the table?

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 06:07 PM
FA on the near horizon. As M2's pointed out, old player skill set. Very injury prone. Not signed to a reasonable contract, so next year he'll get a ton that he doesn't deserve in arbitration. He is ripe for the cashing in.

Old player skill set? I don't see it.. if anyone has old player skills its Adam Dunn. Injury prone, sure... Contract? Can't Krivs, a master contract negotiator, sign Kearns to something reasonable, BEFORE arrbitration?

He would be a good chip to cash, I wont argue that, especially if you can convince a team his current production is for real and sustainable. But he better bring in a very good return.

WMP for Arroyo was solid, but IMHO Kearns > WMP and should bring a much better package of talent back.

Ron Madden
05-29-2006, 06:08 PM
What will Narrons next line up look like? :confused:

M2
05-29-2006, 06:08 PM
I dont see what the harm is keeping him beyond this year, assuming of course he can keep his current pace up all year. If Rcast wants to win, and win now, I dont see how you can trade Kearns unless you really get a difference making pitcher.

For me it's a question of do you think you can win in 2007 or are you shooting for a 2007 and beyond window.

Kearns has been fine this year. He's not the mauler folks had hoped he'd be once upon a time, but he's been a good player for the first time in years. Now, do you believe that's going to stick? It seems you do. I'm not so sold on the notion myself. Kearns probably has his most value in years and, IMO, the team has to factor that in when considering a player whose Reds clock expires at the end of next season. There may never be a better chance to cash in Kearns than this summer.

And then you get to the 2007 question. Do you sit on Kearns and hope it all comes together next year or do you move him for talent that can help next year and down the road as well? If you keep Kearns, fall short and he walks, that would be some bad juju.

CTA513
05-29-2006, 06:12 PM
What will Narrons next line up look like? :confused:

It will be by the order in which you get to the team bus before the game.

Marc D
05-29-2006, 06:17 PM
14-7 start

14-16 since

Its just a matter of playing enough games for all our various shortcomings to take their toll.

I must admit I always discounted the emphasis some put on defense in baseball up untill this year. Boy have these guys shown me something. :eek:

Falls City Beer
05-29-2006, 06:24 PM
14-16 since



Against, arguably, lesser opponents.

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 06:26 PM
For me it's a question of do you think you can win in 2007 or are you shooting for a 2007 and beyond window.

Kearns has been fine this year. He's not the mauler folks had hoped he'd be once upon a time, but he's been a good player for the first time in years. Now, do you believe that's going to stick? It seems you do. I'm not so sold on the notion myself. Kearns probably has his most value in years and, IMO, the team has to factor that in when considering a player whose Reds clock expires at the end of next season. There may never be a better chance to cash in Kearns than this summer.

And then you get to the 2007 question. Do you sit on Kearns and hope it all comes together next year or do you move him for talent that can help next year and down the road as well? If you keep Kearns, fall short and he walks, that would be some bad juju.

Well, I'm not so sure I fully believe in 2 months vs. the past few years... But lets also not kid ourselves. Austin has had injuries, freak injuries, that have probably played a part in his poor performance. Its quite conceivable to me, that this is the real Austin Kearns. I am not ready to guarantee it, but I'm not exactly ready to ship him out yet either. Its not like he's 33 years old and just breaking out. He's what, 25? Just turned 26? Tons of players finally figure it out at that age. Especially when they are healthy.

So I guess it does come down to the 2007 question, as you stated. I *DO* think this team could content next year, if you play your cards right. I guess I'll have a better feeling after seeing how krivs and company do during the draft. I think its entirely possible a guy like Tim Lincecum could fall to us, if not, another very good college arm that could possibly be a part of things in 2007. Sign a GOOD FA pitcher to go with that, and some good bullpen arms, and I think you have a shot.

FA Pitcher, Arroyo, Harang, Claussen, College pitcher? Elizardo? Dumatrait? Homer?!?!? My point being, it would not be impossible to put together a starting staff capable of competing if Krivs drafts well and brings in additional talent at the trade deadline this year.

The Cards are not getting any younger, The Stros without Clemens seem ordinary.. I think the REAL threat is actually Milwuakee beyond this year. They are built for the long haul and have a very talented young team. The cubs are the cubs and the Pierats are horrible. So Yeah, I think we could SERIOUSLY content for the playoffs next year... I dont think, nor ever thought, we could this year.

I don't see why Kearns can't be locked up to a reasonable contract. Milton off the books next year if we buyout his option. Griffey coming off the books expect for his lay-away-pay. Trade Larue. I think you can lock up Kearns and Harang to very solid, cost effective, cost certain deals. Krivs locked up Dunn within 1 week... something the previous regime couldn't or wouldn't do in 2+ years... I believe in his abilities. I also believe Rcast will up the payroll if we are capable of winning.

Some may disagree with me, thats fine... but thats just how I see a possible scenario, a plausible scenario, playing out. Then again, I dont have a crystal ball, nor any inside contacts or inside information. I am just speculating. But I do believe if we make the right moves, make some shrewd deals, and lock up talent to cost certain deals ala Oakland, then we'll be in better shape than many think.

Marc D
05-29-2006, 06:28 PM
Against, arguably, lesser opponents.

With the Astro's, Cards, White Sox and Mets waiting for 13 chances at us in June.:help:

Falls City Beer
05-29-2006, 06:31 PM
Well, I'm not so sure I fully believe in 2 months vs. the past few years... But lets also not kid ourselves. Austin has had injuries, freak injuries, that have probably played a part in his poor performance. Its quite conceivable to me, that this is the real Austin Kearns. I am not ready to guarantee it, but I'm not exactly ready to ship him out yet either. Its not like he's 33 years old and just breaking out. He's what, 25? Just turned 26? Tons of players finally figure it out at that age. Especially when they are healthy.

So I guess it does come down to the 2007 question, as you stated. I *DO* think this team could content next year, if you play your cards right. I guess I'll have a better feeling after seeing how krivs and company do during the draft. I think its entirely possible a guy like Tim Lincecum could fall to us, if not, another very good college arm that could possibly be a part of things in 2007. Sign a GOOD FA pitcher to go with that, and some good bullpen arms, and I think you have a shot.

FA Pitcher, Arroyo, Harang, Claussen, College pitcher? Elizardo? Dumatrait? Homer?!?!? My point being, it would not be impossible to put together a starting staff capable of competing if Krivs drafts well and brings in additional talent at the trade deadline this year.

The Cards are not getting any younger, The Stros without Clemens seem ordinary.. I think the REAL threat is actually Milwuakee beyond this year. They are built for the long haul and have a very talented young team. The cubs are the cubs and the Pierats are horrible. So Yeah, I think we could SERIOUSLY content for the playoffs next year... I dont think, nor ever thought, we could this year.

I don't see why Kearns can't be locked up to a reasonable contract. Milton off the books next year if we buyout his option. Griffey coming off the books expect for his lay-away-pay. Trade Larue. I think you can lock up Kearns and Harang to very solid, cost effective, cost certain deals. Krivs locked up Dunn within 1 week... something the previous regime couldn't or wouldn't do in 2+ years... I believe in his abilities. I also believe Rcast will up the payroll if we are capable of winning.

Some may disagree with me, thats fine... but thats just how I see a possible scenario, a plausible scenario, playing out. Then again, I dont have a crystal ball, nor any inside contacts or inside information. I am just speculating. But I do believe if we make the right moves, make some shrewd deals, and lock up talent to cost certain deals ala Oakland, then we'll be in better shape than many think.


I'm thinking that the answers to the questions all of us are seeking viz. the Reds are probably nowhere within the organization; time to start turning over new soil. Sure, there are some nice parts--Dunn, Lopez, Arroyo, Harang, Enc.--but the rest of this team has either not been part of the solution or has been clearly part of the problem.

The Kearns situation is all about spending your money wisely, and not paying Kearns for past non-production (2003-2005). He's just a very, very bad gamble for a cash-strapped team.

Falls City Beer
05-29-2006, 06:33 PM
With the Astro's, Cards, White Sox and Mets waiting for 13 chances at us in June.:help:

This June could see the worst Reds' single-month record in years...decades. This team is deadset on hypercorrection. And it ain't just the pitching. I guess that's what's so surprising. This team needs a complete overhaul.

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 06:39 PM
The Kearns situation is all about spending your money wisely, and not paying Kearns for past non-production (2003-2005). He's just a very, very bad gamble for a cash-strapped team.

I can understand where you're coming from. And if Kearns is traded I wont stop being a fan of this team. I understand we need to turn the soil.

I just am glad I am not Krivsky... shades of Paul O'Neil hit me when thinking about trading Austin Kearns.


One thing I'd like to point out though... Is is now possible that the Reds are no longer a "cash-strapped" team? We have new ownership. Ownership that seemingly wants to win. I understand that we as reds fans have come to expect a certain degree of futility over the years... "Small market.." blah blah blah.. But lets not tag Rcast with Carl Lindner syndrom yet. He very well could up the payroll, and not be so concerned with the bottom line as Uncle Carl was. If thats the case, why can't we afford Austin Kearns?

Marc D
05-29-2006, 06:40 PM
This team needs a complete overhaul.

I agree 100%.

You would have to blow me away with an offer for some guys but there is absolutely no such thing as untradeable on this team.

I just wish they would tear it down, restock the minors with talent and let nature take its course. I am over the "win while we rebuild" bs.

Falls City Beer
05-29-2006, 06:42 PM
If thats the case, why can't we afford Austin Kearns?

Maybe the question shouldn't be "why can't we afford Kearns?", but instead, "should we pay that much for Kearns?" It may sound like a fine distinction, but it's not.

Falls City Beer
05-29-2006, 06:45 PM
I agree 100%.

You would have to blow me away with an offer for some guys but there is absolutely no such thing as untradeable on this team.

I just wish they would tear it down, restock the minors with talent and let nature take its course. I am over the "win while we rebuild" bs.

It needs an overhaul, not a teardown. Teardowns are for suckers. The Reds need new MLB or close-to-MLB talent, not A-ballers.

IMO, a great draft and a handful of exceptionally shrewd trades makes this team a contender next season.

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 06:46 PM
Maybe the question shouldn't be "why can't we afford Kearns?", but instead, "should we pay that much for Kearns?" It may sound like a fine distinction, but it's not.

True enough.. and that leads us back to the question of "is this the real Kearns or not?" Will be interesting to see how it plays out. One more question for you, if this is the real Austin Kearns, then how much is he worth?

If he keeps pace, projected to finish with 297/371/535 33HR, 99RBI, 108R, 46 doubles. Pretty dang good numbers for a corner fielder.

Falls City Beer
05-29-2006, 06:48 PM
If he keeps pace, projected to finish with 297/371/535 33HR, 99RBI, 108R, 46 doubles. Pretty dang good numbers for a corner fielder.

It's a tough call because, IMO, you don't give out contracts based on one season. Taking all of Kearns' career to date, the equation becomes even murkier.

Marc D
05-29-2006, 06:52 PM
It needs an overhaul, not a teardown. Teardowns are for suckers. The Reds need new MLB or close-to-MLB talent, not A-ballers.

Ok overhaul then, we have the same idea.

There are signs of life at AA and below, we need AAA/near MLB ready types and have plenty of trading chips to get them.

I can live with taking our lumps with FeLo/EE types for another couple years. At least there is reason for hope with them.

Dunn
AK
LaRue
Aurilia
Freel
Hatteberg
Weathers
Mercker

A good GM should be able to do something with those pieces. If he could somehow divest us of JR and Milton at the same time I'd be estatic.

traderumor
05-29-2006, 06:58 PM
I haven't read the thread, but the Cubs were bound to win one at some point.

CTA513
05-29-2006, 07:34 PM
The freak of nature Albert Pujols just hit a 3 run homerun.... #25

:notworthy

M2
05-29-2006, 07:58 PM
cincyinco, good points. I certainly thinks it's possible Austin Kearns has figured things out well enough to be the Tim Salmon-level player I once envisioned him as.

My clear preference would be that the Reds trade Jr. He's the guy who fits least well into the equation. If Kearns could be locked into relatively cheap three-year extension (under $12M says I), then I'd consider keeping him around.

Yet if he can't be locked into such a deal, keeping him has its consequences. IMO the Reds had better go out and find two starters for 2007 (and perish the notion that anyone from the farm or this draft will play an important role in a contender's rotation next year). Relievers need to be found from outside as well (though perhaps someone from the farm could help on that front, Guevara striking me as the most likely candidate). And then the offense and defense need to click. Is Felipe Lopez a SS for a contending ballclub? You don't have to answer that question prior to next year if you aren't counting on 2007. But holding Austin Kearns makes 2007 imperative. Not only does he have to produce, the team has to be ready too. Because if he walks after that season then you're left without the benefit of the talent he could have fetched you this summer or this coming winter. The Reds have precious little talent where they can afford to lose a guy like Kearns with no return on him. That's no a small market problem. It's a small talent problem.

cincyinco
05-29-2006, 10:25 PM
Thanks m2 -


My clear preference would be that the Reds trade Jr. He's the guy who fits least well into the equation. If Kearns could be locked into relatively cheap three-year extension (under $12M says I), then I'd consider keeping him around.

Mine too... but a man with 10/5 rights.. I just dont really see him going anywhere unless he knows he has a real real good chance to win a ring - which he deserves.

I have to say that I think its imperitive that if you sign up Kearns for a long term deal you gotta lock up the likes of Harang and Lopez to a few deals as well. I think, say for example, that if you lock up Kearns for 3 more, and let a guy like Lopez go, that it could have just as drastic of consequences as keeping Kearns and not extending him/trading him/etc.

If you can sign Kearns to a reasonable deal, like the one you proposed - or a contract with an escalating salary, you have to sign guys like Lopez and Harang. You need to keep "the core" in tact and keep them cheap if you are going to go for 2007(and possibly beyond IMO). Cost certainty would be key, as well as player certainty(i.e. who is going to be on the roster or who we're building around). But if you don't do that, and you still go for 2007 and fail - well, I think we'd be in big big trouble then. A big hole.


The Reds have precious little talent where they can afford to lose a guy like Kearns with no return on him. That's no a small market problem. It's a small talent problem.

Couldn't agree more. Getting value out of your assets is essential. I think thats the case for any good ballclub. You need to get value out of everything - Free agents, scouting, drafting... Good GMs know this and succeed at doing this. I'm feeling good about Krivs and company. I think he is a good judge of talent and value for the most part. He'll make some mistakes, but what GM doesn't? Krivs may ultimately fail, who knows. But I feel good about this ballclub for a change. And that has nothing to do about the way our Reds have been playing. Its just nice to know we have someone with a vision and plan running things now - and an owner who cares about winning. Finally, we're not swimming in circles. At least thats how it feels to me.

Falls City Beer
05-30-2006, 01:41 AM
I think that unless the Reds payroll gets a pretty huge bump next year, then paying Kearns 4 or 5 million a season is bordering on foolhardy. The guy's averaging like 115-120 games a season for his career. That's just a terrible risk for a guy with a Bichette-ish body type. If the Reds payroll goes all Cards next season, then it's a risk I have less of a problem taking, but I still think the Reds could get at or near Kearns' production for half that price-tag if they're smart.

Topcat
05-30-2006, 02:01 AM
I think that unless the Reds payroll gets a pretty huge bump next year, then paying Kearns 4 or 5 million a season is bordering on foolhardy. The guy's averaging like 115-120 games a season for his career. That's just a terrible risk for a guy with a Bichette-ish body type. If the Reds payroll goes all Cards next season, then it's a risk I have less of a problem taking, but I still think the Reds could get at or near Kearns' production for half that price-tag if they're smart.


If Kearns reaches a high level of Value he needs to be traded for the obvious lack of pitching. Call me crazy but I gamble on Deno and less productivity and more improved pitching.:D

NJReds
05-30-2006, 10:47 AM
I think that unless the Reds payroll gets a pretty huge bump next year, then paying Kearns 4 or 5 million a season is bordering on foolhardy. The guy's averaging like 115-120 games a season for his career. That's just a terrible risk for a guy with a Bichette-ish body type. If the Reds payroll goes all Cards next season, then it's a risk I have less of a problem taking, but I still think the Reds could get at or near Kearns' production for half that price-tag if they're smart.

Trade Kearns for Kerry Wood, and convert Wood to closer...:dunno:

smith288
05-30-2006, 01:44 PM
This June could see the worst Reds' single-month record in years...decades. This team is deadset on hypercorrection. And it ain't just the pitching. I guess that's what's so surprising. This team needs a complete overhaul.
Or we could play to the level of our competition... The Reds were good at that last year and its very annoying.

CTA513
05-30-2006, 02:20 PM
Trade Kearns for Kerry Wood, and convert Wood to closer...:dunno:

Wood will probably be hurt or on the DL again before the seasons over.

TeamBoone
05-30-2006, 03:00 PM
Trade Kearns for Kerry Wood, and convert Wood to closer...:dunno:

Wood's name shouldn't even be mentioned in a sentence with the word "trade"... at least not until he proves he's still just as good as he ever was... or at least closer than he appears to be right now.




Or we could play to the level of our competition... The Reds were good at that last year and its very annoying.

That's a really good point. They do seem to play better against the better teams and then fall off when the opposition is perceived to be lower level.

Big Klu
05-30-2006, 09:31 PM
Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Eric Davis - 203
7. Barry Larkin - 198
8. Vada Pinson - 186
9. Adam Dunn - 175
10. Wally Post - 172
11. Gus Bell - 160
12. Joe Morgan - 152
12. Pete Rose - 152
14. Lee May - 147
15. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 144
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96