PDA

View Full Version : 7-5 vs Brew Crew -- NEED A WIN!!



Pages : 1 2 3 4 [5]

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Who's Yoda?

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
50 pages!

wowza

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
34 pages on 30 posts per page :D

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
I hate mlb.tv right now

Marc D
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Who's Yoda?

size wise its Freel

age wise its Aurilia

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
To 13...who's pen will fail first?

Let it be the Brewers.

:pray:

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Prove the logic wrong Castro-Aurilia-Hat

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Yeah but Bobby Cox is more like Billy D if you know what I mean

What? Wears Billy Dee's cologne "Undeniable?"

VR
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
Box score tidbit...Reds have used 10 players in the 9 spot of the order tonight

oneupper
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
Did mlb give up on the game lol?

The wonder of computers...doesn't quite understand that a game can start one day and end the next..

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
Geremi Gonzalez in to pitch

Edskin
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
my feed is back

Jpup
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
i guess I'll listen to Marty.

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
Yay mlb.tv is back!

Nugget
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
50 pages!

wowza

But half of those would be Star Wars related.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
What? Wears Billy Dee's cologne "Undeniable?"
Some Colt 45?

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:08 AM
Im pretty sure that Gonzalez is the last guy the Brewers have out of the bullpen.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
nice looking breaking ball from Standrigde, really kept it down

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
What? Wears Billy Dee's cologne "Undeniable?"

I think Narron's got a few of these in the clubhouse for nights like tonight:
http://data1.blog.de/blog/s/surf-steash/img/COlt-45---Billy-Dee.jpg

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
Castro bloops one to right, Weeks cannot get it!! GRD into the stands

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
Castro leads off with a dbl

Marc D
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
Some Colt 45?

That and beating his wife.

Jpup
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
Yay mlb.tv is back!

not for me. they finally blacked me out after 4 hours. sometimes I can watch the games, but most of the time not.

NC Reds
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
Castro is on fire! :eek:

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
What luck :clap:

VR
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
Im pretty sure that Gonzalez is the last guy the Brewers have out of the bullpen.

correct.

Laser shot double by Castro leads off the 13th!

Edskin
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
there's som nice luck

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:09 AM
size wise its Freel

age wise its Aurilia

Freelia?

captainmorgan07
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
castro witha double

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
OMG we got a break!!!

FINALLY!!!

Bunt Rich!

TheBurn
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
Castro !!!

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
Good lord Grande..

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
Gonzalez looks like a Muppet.

And Castro? "Everytime."

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
NO difference. The difference would be that Leyland would bunt and run the Reds out of a lot more runs than Narron. But the players would be whipped into shape, that's for sure. FWIW, I think the Tigers will suffer a meltdown in the second half of the season.

With 79 games to play all they have to do is win 35 to reach 92 wins. They are a no brainer for the play-offs. Either the division winner or wildcard. No question with their starting pitching.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
Oh Hat is out..Grande never told me that ;)

WVRedsFan
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
"Whatever you ask Aurilia, you know its gonna get done"

- George G

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:11 AM
George "Whatever you ask him (Rich) to do, you know it's gonna get done"\

I don't like you GG

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:11 AM
"Whatever you ask Aurilia, you know its gonna get done"

- George G
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:11 AM
WHY ARE you NOT BUNTING?!

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:11 AM
weeks should have caught that

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Part of me hopes RA screws up so GG looks stupid.

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Castro rules! :laugh:

NC Reds
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
No Way!!

kyred14
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Castro!!

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Grande is going Edmonds freak out

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Successful sac bunt.. little trouble at first base as Aurilia was almost safe, Castro steamrolls around third and scores somehow? Wow.. 5-4 Reds

VR
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Castro :)

WVRedsFan
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
AS Castro scores, Marty has an orgasm...

"How abut that baserunning!!!!"

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
"Whatever you ask Aurilia, you know its gonna get done"

- George G

Come on -- Rich was young, he needed the money. It's not how he usually is.

TheBurn
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Ére ya' go....

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Was Grande ever on the editorial staff of Tiger Beat magazine?

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Grande showing emotion......Castro said, "I'm all in"

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
OMG

Castro!!!!!

captainmorgan07
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Juan Freakin Castro Heads Up Baserunning

Mario-Rijo
07-06-2006, 01:12 AM
Good 'Ole Juan! Scrappy! :beerme:

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:13 AM
I have a SW question for you all

In the final scene in Return Of The Jedi, where they show the "glorified" Jedis, who is the guy on the left?

Was he portrayed in any of the movies?

http://www.adukes.demon.co.uk/cards/swg-f18.jpg

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:13 AM
Good lord we're gonna hear about how great Castro/Aurilia are for a month ;)

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:13 AM
Narron shows some emotion!

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:13 AM
Bring in Arroyo or Harang....they can get guys out :D

harangatang
07-06-2006, 01:13 AM
I hate Narron and Castro even more ;)

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:13 AM
lol that was a crazy play.
good bunt by Aurilia and great base running by Castro.

:beerme:

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:13 AM
For the love of all that is Holy Jason, get 3 outs with 0 runs scoring.

Marc D
07-06-2006, 01:13 AM
Was that the Jake Taylor/Wille Mays Hayes play?

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:14 AM
Was Grande ever on the editorial staff of Tiger Beat magazine?

No, but he has collected every "Babysitters Club" novel ever written.

Edskin
07-06-2006, 01:14 AM
I'll tell you what....for such a miserable offensive player, Juan has sure found a way to make his mark in some big spots for the Reds over the years. Not only did he have the walk-off on Cinco De Mayo, but he walked-off the Yankees, and he's the one who got on base for Larkin's amazing HR against the Cards. He seems to somehow find his way into big moments. I'm NOT saying he's "clutch"--- just making an observation.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:14 AM
reds better play add on.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:14 AM
I have a SW question for you all

In the final scene in Return Of The Jedi, where they show the "glorified" Jedis, who is the guy on the left?

Was he portrayed in any of the movies?

http://www.adukes.demon.co.uk/cards/swg-f18.jpg
That's Anakin, he was shown in Jedi..now replaced by the creepy dude in the new DVD versions

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:14 AM
Two ignobles on this team (Castro & Aurilia) may get us a win. :lol:

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:14 AM
Phillips lines to left, 2 out

Mario-Rijo
07-06-2006, 01:14 AM
I have a SW question for you all

In the final scene in Return Of The Jedi, where they show the "glorified" Jedis, who is the guy on the left?

Was he portrayed in any of the movies?


That is Annakin/Vader!

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:15 AM
that was risky man...if he was out....this board including myself would have verbally hung him.

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:15 AM
Kearns flies to right, 5-4 Reds middle of 13

MWM
07-06-2006, 01:15 AM
I have a SW question for you all

In the final scene in Return Of The Jedi, where they show the "glorified" Jedis, who is the guy on the left?

Was he portrayed in any of the movies?

http://www.adukes.demon.co.uk/cards/swg-f18.jpg

It's supposed to be Annikan.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:15 AM
Is 1 run enough? I doubt it ;)

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:15 AM
BP has some bad luck

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:15 AM
That's Anakin, he was shown in Jedi..now replaced by the creepy dude in the new DVD versions

Darth Vader?

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:15 AM
Ok Jason.

3 outs, no runs.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:16 AM
Darth Vader?
Yep

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:16 AM
If the bullpen doesn't win this in this inning, I'm going to cry.

kaldaniels
07-06-2006, 01:16 AM
Good lord Grande..

Ever notice how Grande tacks on a MPH or 2 to a pitchers fastball? "He's up there at 94,95,96" when the guy has hit 94 once or twice.

NC Reds
07-06-2006, 01:16 AM
I can't stand Castro. If he had been thrown out, I would have called for his immediate release. We caught a break.

He got the job done though, to his considerable credit.

THREE OUTS PLEASE!!

VR
07-06-2006, 01:17 AM
with the bully thrashed, I wouldn't be surprised to see a roster move to get a fresh arm in the mix.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:17 AM
Grande is positively giddy

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:17 AM
Yep

So throwing the old guy down the shaft paid off then huh?

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:17 AM
I'd think Jason better get 'em 1-2-3. The Reds really don't want to see the top of the order again.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
So throwing the old guy down the shaft paid off then huh?
Apparently, killing millions with the death star is forgiven ;)

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
I know some of you will find this as a shock, but I've never seen one of the Star Wars movies form start to finish. Never got into it for some reason.

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
I can't stand Castro. If he had been thrown out, I would have called for his immediate release. We caught a break.

He got the job done though, to his considerable credit.

THREE OUTS PLEASE!!

Heads up base running. Especially in games like this.

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
So throwing the old guy down the shaft paid off then huh?

Yup. In Star Wars world, a lifetime of murder and depraved behavior can be forgiven by a deathbed confession. :laugh:

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
Single

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
Grande is positively giddy
To make his night complete, "Billy" needs to hit a walkoff.

Hopefully his night isn't complete.

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
Good start.

:cry:

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
Miller bloops a single to right

RBA
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
Anakin is Vader? Wow. Now it makes sense. ;)

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:18 AM
And here we go.

Marc D
07-06-2006, 01:19 AM
Yup. In Star Wars world, a lifetime of murder and depraved behavior can be forgiven by a deathbed confession. :laugh:

I'm hoping it's not just in Star Wars world or I'm screwed.;)

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:19 AM
I know some of you will find this as a shock, but I've never seen one of the Star Wars movies form start to finish. Never got into it for some reason.

I just watched the whole series for the first time a couple years ago. I saw the first one in the theatre, and never saw the rest.

Now I own the DVD set because the kids like them.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2006, 01:19 AM
Yup. In Star Wars world, a lifetime of murder and depraved behavior can be forgiven by a deathbed confession. :laugh:

I think Jedis spend eternity in Fraggle Rock.

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:20 AM
George: "This atbat for Gross is like a pinch hit one, except he has been in there all night"

kyred14
07-06-2006, 01:20 AM
So....

Who wins it for the Brewers, Weeks or Hall?

Edskin
07-06-2006, 01:20 AM
Marc-- best post ever! :)

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:20 AM
Yub nub if we win anyone? :D

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:20 AM
George how is this like pinch hitting when he has played all night?

HOW?

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:20 AM
Young guy feeling the heat pitching

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:20 AM
I think Jedis spend eternity in Fraggle Rock.

So, does that mean Obi-Wan is Uncle Travelling Matt, since he gets to go out after dying?

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:21 AM
Belisle not throwing.

Something may be wrong.



I was serious about bringing in Harang or Arroyo to finish this off...(probably Harang)

vaticanplum
07-06-2006, 01:21 AM
I know some of you will find this as a shock, but I've never seen one of the Star Wars movies form start to finish. Never got into it for some reason.

I haven't either. I finally learned who R2D2 and CP3O are a couple years ago and now I identify them proudly.

I just checked in, I can't believe this game is still going.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:21 AM
I hear Taps playing

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:21 AM
Gross walks

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:21 AM
Walk

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:21 AM
I'm hoping it's not just in Star Wars world or I'm screwed.;)

I'd keep your light sword handy. ;)

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:21 AM
now the bunt

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:22 AM
Jebus.

kaldaniels
07-06-2006, 01:22 AM
Brew now has the win expectancy edge

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:22 AM
Old guy up to bat

Edskin
07-06-2006, 01:22 AM
I think you just throw it down the middle and see what happens.......

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:23 AM
I haven't either. I finally learned who R2D2 and CP3O are a couple years ago and now I identify them proudly

Those are ATM machines silly. ;)

Tony Cloninger
07-06-2006, 01:23 AM
Does George get dumber as the game goes on?

Is MB hurt? Or is it more JN hates young players conspiracy time?

captainmorgan07
07-06-2006, 01:23 AM
belisle's back might be flaring up

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:23 AM
Does George get dumber as the game goes on?

Is MB hurt? Or is it more JN hates young players conspiracy time?
JN doesn't trust em

SirFelixCat
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
New pitcher for MB or what? A lil pbp for those of us at work (ie me) please.

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
Cirillo showed bunt, pulled it back and punched a single to left, bases loaded none out

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
Bases loaded..no outs

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
single. bases loaded. 0 outs

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
Whatever Narron said at the mound did not work.

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
belisle's back might be flaring up

I say the same thing whenever my jump shot isn't falling.

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
It looks like this is the Brewers game now.

:thumbdown

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
Nobody up in the pen..Standbridge or bust

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
Bases loaded. No outs.

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
New pitcher for MB or what? A lil pbp for those of us at work (ie me) please.

Annakin is Darth Vader

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:24 AM
Just get it over with, Jason.

Screw it :D

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:25 AM
Narron gets owend again.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:25 AM
End it..1 way or the other

Tornon
07-06-2006, 01:25 AM
Weeks doubles to center, Brewers win 6-5

GAC
07-06-2006, 01:25 AM
Game Over

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:25 AM
Game over

Brewers win

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
This one hurt most of all.

Reds Fanatic
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
I hate our bullpen and Milwaukee.

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
:laugh:

We all saw it coming.

captainmorgan07
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
this is just devasting to this team right now

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
Will we be above .500 at the All-Star break?

Reds4Life
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
I can't even describe this bullpen anymore, I give up.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
This is either going to be a great win, or a horrible, gut wrenching loss.
Sure was wheels :(

RedsManRick
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
I quit.

MWM
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
Someone has to be saved for a potential ong stint tomorrow as Mays is starting. Belisle is that guy.

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
I give up.

kyred14
07-06-2006, 01:26 AM
So....

Who wins it for the Brewers, Weeks or Hall?

Weeks.

Thank you Narron once again.

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:27 AM
5 game losing streak.

:bang:

NC Reds
07-06-2006, 01:27 AM
As badly as Monday's game hurt, this was that much worse. This is tough to take. :(

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:27 AM
this is just devasting to this team right now

Devestating?

It's hillarious. Blowing not one but two saves in extra frames?

This team is regressing back to the mean, and it's a comedy of errors watching it happen.

WVRedsFan
07-06-2006, 01:27 AM
How in the name of all that's right do you face the 7-8-9 batters and get absolutely no one out?

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:28 AM
Standrigde pumped a belt high down the middle fastball on the 0-1 pitch

Edskin
07-06-2006, 01:28 AM
Narron? C'mon guys--- what can he do? Every pitcher in that pen is garbage-- all he can do is roll the dice with them each night.

Kc61
07-06-2006, 01:28 AM
Weeks.

Thank you Narron once again.

Yeah, he should have put in Mariano Rivera or Billy Wagner.

MWM
07-06-2006, 01:28 AM
NOt sure how Narron lost this one. The only thing I can question is the suicide squeeze (and maybe taking out Dunn, but that didn't hurt the Reds afterall). Not sure what he could have done differently.

Edskin
07-06-2006, 01:29 AM
I'm just not sure how any of us can even being to consider the Reds a contender. We're like, 4-5 players away, not 1-2.

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:29 AM
NOt sure how Narron lost this one. The only thing I can question is the suicide squeeze (and maybe taking out Dunn, but that didn't hurt the Reds afterall). Not sure what he could have done differently.

Yell a little more loudly at the guys in the bullpen. Maybe withhold their allowence for a week.

Nugget
07-06-2006, 01:29 AM
I don't see it was Narron's fault - he can't go out an pitch for the guys. If he had Hammonds out there we'd be saying the same thing. The guys in the BP aren't getting it done at the moment. BP arms are at a premium. The mistakes were made before this year in not havnig arms available to bring up and putting together a workable BP. Too many of the same kind of guys. Yan should have made a difference but both he and Coffey have been unreliable lately.

realreds1
07-06-2006, 01:29 AM
*Bah ruuuummmm bum bum*

That best summarizes this 'pen.

CougarQuest
07-06-2006, 01:29 AM
Instead of watching our bullpen blow yet another game, let's all just volunteer to transport experimental explosives in our shorts

kyred14
07-06-2006, 01:30 AM
Yeah, he should have put in Mariano Rivera or Billy Wagner.

Unlike Standridge, Belisle at least gives you a chance.

oneupper
07-06-2006, 01:30 AM
Standrigde pumped a belt high down the middle fastball on the 0-1 pitch

What killed the inning was the walk to Gross....

WMR
07-06-2006, 01:30 AM
I for one don't blame this one on Narron. I still think he's a bad manager, but this loss isn't his fault.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:30 AM
Instead of watching our bullpen blow yet another game, let's all just volunteer to transport experimental explosives in our shorts
:help:

Tony Cloninger
07-06-2006, 01:30 AM
Good god......aren't you afraid of negative points Kyred14?

You make Homer Simpson sound like Stephen Hawking with those comments.

redsrule2500
07-06-2006, 01:30 AM
I hate baseball.

The bullpen does fine, but blows another game. Amazing

Chip R
07-06-2006, 01:31 AM
Well Standridge looks like the suckiness of the other guys in the bullpen has rubbed off on him now.

Interesting how the Brewers keep a young guy like Weeks in there day in and day out even though he is erratic in the field.

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:31 AM
I'm just not sure how any of us can even being to consider the Reds a contender. We're like, 4-5 players away, not 1-2.
We're 8 pitchers away.

oregonred
07-06-2006, 01:31 AM
Will we be above .500 at the All-Star break?


Braves will likely take 3 of 4 and the Reds go in at 45-44 :thumbdown

1-8 vs. the NL Central in the last 9 games
8-17 since the high water mark of 36-24

Only hope is the NL Central is a complete mess and someone must get an invite to the playoffs

SteelSD
07-06-2006, 01:31 AM
This bullpen is absolutely awful. It contains one guy (Coffey) who can kinda' sorta' pitch and a bunch of junk that can't. I'm actually surprised that the Reds made it past Yan's puke job earlier in extras to make a fight of it.

WMR
07-06-2006, 01:31 AM
I think others made a valid point that you've GOT to have Belisle available for Atlanta tomorrow w/ Mays taking the mound... that's reasoning that's at least understandable.

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:31 AM
Unlike Standridge, Belisle at least gives you a chance.

To what? Add another name to the box score before losing? Belisle has looked awful his last few outings as well.

I'm just amazed the bullpen hung around as much as it did tonight.

kyred14
07-06-2006, 01:31 AM
Good god......aren't you afraid of negative points Kyred14?

You make Homer Simpson sound like Stephen Hawking with those comments.

Edit: My bad, I just hit my boiling point with this team, I guess.

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:31 AM
St. Louis just got Weaver from the Angels.....

TheBigLebowski
07-06-2006, 01:32 AM
Man...this one is really going to sting once the bullpen blows it.

Bet we lose this one 6-5. I've seen it too often to get excited, especially against the Brewers.

Nice hit, Ears.

Gotta give myself props.

I know this team.

I, too, GIVE.

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:33 AM
I think others made a valid point that you've GOT to have Belisle available for Atlanta tomorrow w/ Mays taking the mound... that's reasoning that's at least understandable.
You can't be thinking like that. You had to get 3 outs and you win tonight that is for sure. For all we know Mays will go throw a dandy tomorrow.

Kc61
07-06-2006, 01:33 AM
Unlike Standridge, Belisle at least gives you a chance.

This year, Standridge entering tonight had a 1.69 ERA. And he got a big strikeout in the 12th.

Belisle has a bad back and a 4.57.

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:34 AM
You can't be thinking like that. You had to get 3 outs and you win tonight that is for sure. For all we know Mays will go throw a dandy tomorrow.

6 Belisle, Half a Dozen Standridge -- does it really make THAT big of a difference who goes out there? Either way, it'd be an adventure to get 3 outs.

Matt700wlw
07-06-2006, 01:34 AM
Make moves now.

Somebody. Anybody.

oneupper
07-06-2006, 01:34 AM
I for one don't blame this one on Narron. I still think he's a bad manager, but this loss isn't his fault.

You can always do some things better, but the players have to hit, pitch, field and run, too...

Brewers are good hitting team and theyv'e been doing this (coming back) all year at home against many teams.

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:34 AM
You can't be thinking like that. You had to get 3 outs and you win tonight that is for sure. For all we know Mays will go throw a dandy tomorrow.

Exactly...you win today, worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

oregonred
07-06-2006, 01:34 AM
6 Belisle, Half a Dozen Standridge -- does it really make THAT big of a difference who goes out there? Either way, it'd be an adventure to get 3 outs.

:laugh:

realreds1
07-06-2006, 01:34 AM
St. Louis just got Weaver from the Angels.....


I don't feel *as* terribly now.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:35 AM
Kudos to Narron, he actually didn't screw this one up, just a victim of a bad pen. Standridge sunk his own ship by walking Gross.

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:35 AM
Exactly...you win today, worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.
That being said, I would have pitched Standridge in the 13th. I agree with who Narron put out there.

Tony Cloninger
07-06-2006, 01:35 AM
I hear the fear in your keystrokes.

I think Seattles' bullpens of 1997-99 compare to this one.
Griffey must be loving it....the memories.

All that is missing is Lou blowing a gasket....but even he just gave up and played dead after a while. This team looks dead even when it's winning sometimes.

kyred14
07-06-2006, 01:35 AM
I guess there is really nothing Narron or anyone else can do, there isn't anyone remotely realible in the bullpen.

WVRedsFan
07-06-2006, 01:36 AM
Narron? C'mon guys--- what can he do? Every pitcher in that pen is garbage-- all he can do is roll the dice with them each night.

Which is the great smokescreen that disguises the inept lineups and the constant catering to veterans who are has-beens.

Overlooked in this game is the putrid offense. An offense that can score 14 and turn around and score 3 or 4. This team has to score 8 or more runs to be safe with our bullpen. When we score 5 or less, we usually lose. Taking a big bat out of the lineup with a one run lead is ludicrous. Playing banjo hitters and over the hill veterans is stupid. And this is just the beginning, folks. While Matt Beslile rots in the pen and Edwin Encarnacion sits in Louisville, we get Juan Castro (to his credit, he did take a chance to get the lead for us briefly) and Q. McC to hit and Yan to pitch.

Sorry, but there's too much blame to not look at Narron, lineup construction (whereby Griffey's only protection is Rich Aurilia), Kearns in the 7 hole and a catching rotation only someone into torture would love. If you know you have to score runs and lots of them, why do you start Castro and Aurilia? Why do you bench Lopez? Why do you meddle with Adam Dunn's plate philosophy?

realreds1
07-06-2006, 01:37 AM
I guess there is really nothing Narron or anyone else can do, there isn't anyone remotely realible in the bullpen.

Can Denorfia pitch?

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:37 AM
Which is the great smokescreen that disguises the inept lineups and the constant catering to veterans who are has-beens.

Overlooked in this game is the putrid offense. An offense that can score 14 and turn around and score 3 or 4. This team has to score 8 or more runs to be safe with our bullpen. When we score 5 or less, we usually lose. Taking a big bat out of the lineup with a one run lead is ludicrous. Playing banjo hitters and over the hill veterans is stupid. And this is just the beginning, folks. While Matt Beslile rots in the pen and Edwin Encarnacion sits in Louisville, we get Juan Castro (to his credit, he did take a chance to get the lead for us briefly) and Q. McC to hit and Yan to pitch.

Sorry, but there's too much blame to not look at Narron, lineup construction (whereby Griffey's only protection is Rich Aurilia), Kearns in the 7 hole and a catching rotation only someone into torture would love. If you know you have to score runs and lots of them, why do you start Castro and Aurilia? Why do you bench Lopez? Why do you meddle with Adam Dunn's plate philosophy?
This post I will agree with.

George Foster
07-06-2006, 01:37 AM
That being said, I would have pitched Standridge in the 13th. I agree with who Narron put out there.

This was a hypothetical. If Narron was saving Belisle...it was the wrong thinking, that's all.

Chip R
07-06-2006, 01:37 AM
St. Louis just got Weaver from the Angels.....

I would not be surprised if they turned him around there.

RedsMan3203
07-06-2006, 01:37 AM
We have a bulpen?

Hell, I was thinking... Who can pitch the 13th?


Belisle? Belisle?? Belisle??? or Milton.

traderumor
07-06-2006, 01:38 AM
Demoralizing, simply demoralizing to scratch out leads and watch your bullpen cough them up in two games. Get swept when the offense provided the means to take 2 of 3. Worse yet, neither time could they even get an out. Inexcusable, and if you're gonna cut Josh Hancock for being too fat, then you gotta cut 2 to 3 more of these clowns for sucking bad.

Coffey nibbled until Jenkins finally lit him up, then he decided to pitch. Standridge had the deer in the headlights look when he had the lead to hold. Two guys not trusting their stuff when the game is on the line.

SteelSD
07-06-2006, 01:38 AM
Devestating?

It's hillarious. Blowing not one but two saves in extra frames?

This team is regressing back to the mean, and it's a comedy of errors watching it happen.

Excellent observation, Caveat. I'm not at all surprised by any of it. This team has mounted comeback after comeback this season but simply can't overcome bad pitching. Same as it ever was.

But hey, the guys responsible for said bad pitching have been given extensions so I guess it's all good?

oregonred
07-06-2006, 01:38 AM
Hey the pen gave up only 3 ER in 6 innings pitched (never mind the extras that would have scored in the 13th -- but details).

I'm officially declaring this Herculian team effort a "quality finish" :(

traderumor
07-06-2006, 01:40 AM
I would not be surprised if they turned him around there.Turn him around to what? More like finally get something out of him.

traderumor
07-06-2006, 01:41 AM
But hey, the guys responsible for said bad pitching have been given extensions so I guess it's all good?What?

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:41 AM
This was a hypothetical. If Narron was saving Belisle...it was the wrong thinking, that's all.
Yes if saving Belisle for tomorrow was he brought in Standridge, then yes it is the wrong thinking.

However if he thought Standridge was the better option, so did I, so I can't blame him.

alloverjr
07-06-2006, 01:41 AM
I think others made a valid point that you've GOT to have Belisle available for Atlanta tomorrow w/ Mays taking the mound... that's reasoning that's at least understandable.

What isn't understandable is that Mays is even ALLOWED to pitch tomorrow, or even on the roster. But I guess that question can be put to about 8 guys who have been called pitchers. The Reds are getting dangerously close to challenging my win total prediction for this year.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:42 AM
Hey the pen gave up only 3 ER in 6 innings pitched (never mind the extras that would have scored in the 13th -- but details).

I'm officially declaring this Herculian team effort a "quality finish" :(it was more the timing than the quantity this evening

reds44
07-06-2006, 01:42 AM
Excellent observation, Caveat. I'm not at all surprised by any of it. This team has mounted comeback after comeback this season but simply can't overcome bad pitching. Same as it ever was.

But hey, the guys responsible for said bad pitching have been given extensions so I guess it's all good?
Narron and Krivsky aren't responsible for the pitching, O'Brien in.

Give Wayne a full offseason and see what happens.

Chip R
07-06-2006, 01:45 AM
Turn him around to what? More like finally get something out of him.

They made Ponson into a decent pitcher and he was crap the last few years. I do not know how they do it but they always seem to do it. I would not want him on the Reds cause I do not think they can improve him but if anyone can do it, StL can.

flyer85
07-06-2006, 01:45 AM
Excellent observation, Caveat. I'm not at all surprised by any of it. This team has mounted comeback after comeback this season but simply can't overcome bad pitching. Same as it ever was.

But hey, the guys responsible for said bad pitching have been given extensions so I guess it's all good?I did note the Twins took off over the last month after they got rid of their anchors(Castro, Batista, White, etc) and went with the young guys. I wonder if the Reds could learn anything from that.

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:46 AM
Maybe the Reds will bring up Rick Asadoorian?
Hes a outfielder that the Lookouts just used in the 13th inning.

1 inning, 1 Hit, 0 Runs, 0 Walks, 3 Strike outs.

:laugh:


Maybe Encarnacion will hide Brad Salmon in his luggage when he returns to the Reds?

;)

SteelSD
07-06-2006, 01:46 AM
What?

Not sure what you mean by "What?".

Jerry Narron and Wayne Krivsky are responsible for the current constitution of the rotation and bullpen.

Don't particularly care how much time they've had to get things in order. But I do care about what they've done with the time they've had.

WVRedsFan
07-06-2006, 01:47 AM
I did note the Twins took off over the last month after they got rid of their anchors(Castro, Batista, White, etc) and went with the young guys. I wonder if the Reds could learn anything from that.

Nope. Not under the present circumstances. Of course, this may be all part of a master plan I'm not aware of. If it is, I hope somebody tells us. This is pretty depressing.

MWM
07-06-2006, 01:48 AM
They made Ponson into a decent pitcher and he was crap the last few years. I do not know how they do it but they always seem to do it. I would not want him on the Reds cause I do not think they can improve him but if anyone can do it, StL can.

Ponson had a few good outings early, but now sports a 5.60 ERA and a 1.64 WHIP. He's till Ponson.

CTA513
07-06-2006, 01:48 AM
Maybe the Reds will bring up Rick Asadoorian?
Hes a outfielder that the Lookouts just used in the 13th inning.

1 inning, 1 Hit, 0 Runs, 0 Walks, 3 Strike outs.

:laugh:


Maybe Encarnacion will hide Brad Salmon in his luggage when he returns to the Reds?

;)


Make that 2 Innings. 2 hits, 0 Runs, 0 walks and 5 strike outs.

Did he use to be a pitcher or something?

:eek:

KronoRed
07-06-2006, 01:49 AM
I hear the fear in your keystrokes.

I think Seattles' bullpens of 1997-99 compare to this one.
Griffey must be loving it....the memories.

All that is missing is Lou blowing a gasket....but even he just gave up and played dead after a while. This team looks dead even when it's winning sometimes.
Don't forget Jose Cruz JR for Paul Spoljaric and Mike Timlin.

SteelSD
07-06-2006, 01:52 AM
I did note the Twins took off over the last month after they got rid of their anchors(Castro, Batista, White, etc) and went with the young guys. I wonder if the Reds could learn anything from that.

Yeah. Imagine that. Terry Ryan was forced to start taking chances and comes out ahead while Wayne Krivsky sits in his comfort zone and ends up with a team that's won consecutive games once in the past 30 days.

reds44
07-06-2006, 02:03 AM
This game wore me out.

We get Edwin back tomorrow, he will make the team somewhat better.

Lets see what happens.

Big Klu
07-06-2006, 02:25 AM
Well, it is no fun to post after a game like that, but here's the HR update.


Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Eric Davis - 203
7. Barry Larkin - 198
8. Vada Pinson - 186
9. Adam Dunn - 185
10. Wally Post - 172
11. Gus Bell - 160
12. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 156
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

WVRedsFan
07-06-2006, 02:39 AM
I'm a gumpy old man as I've told this board before. I've been grumpier than usual over the last three weeks. I'm giving Narron hell for his "non-youth" movement and even doubting Krivsky, but I'm still a Reds fan and will be until I die. It's just more frustrating than I can take sometimes and here's why...

Bob Castellini announced late last year that the Reds would go all out to be competitive and make the Reds fandom proud of their team. He hired Wayne Krivsky as GM, displacing the hated Dan O'Brien, releived John Allen of any baseball position and all looked well with the world. But there's more.

Krivsky got Branson Arroyo from Boston for an underused Willy Mo Pena which at first seemed like a brilliant move (and still does in many ways--Bronson did go 7 innings in a bad performance last night--rare by Reds standards), got Scott H. from free agency, and then the wheels came off.

The pitching staff returned from the 2005 season less Josh Hancock (who has pitched well for St Louis for a fat man), Booker, Hudson, Kiesler, Ortiz, Simpson, Stone, Valentine, and Weber. We added Arrroyo, Burns, Mays and Yan. Oh, to have Fat Hancock back. Otherwise, good moves. Arroyo was a good move but the rest was (or appears to be)a bust.

Other players we lost were Casey, Cruz, and Pena. We added Hat (to play first), Ross (who has been a pleasant surprise), Phillips (likewise), Castro (why?), and McCracken (huh? we gave up Jason Cruz for this dud?).

This is basically the same team as last year with Phillips, Hat, Castro, McCracken, and Ross added and a pitching staff made up of similar or worse people.

Why do we gripe? We should have known better. This is the same team with a similar manager as last year, but with one better starter (Raimeriz replaces Claussen in this example because Claussen regressed and the Lizard improved). We replaced Freel with Phillips at second and EdE at third instead of Freel or Randa.

And until Castellini and Krivsky have a little more time, i guess we should expect long losing streaks to put us back to where we were last year. Bad fielding and bad lineups have been a staple of Reds teams for six years. With little change in personnel, why would we expect better? Because Bob said so. I heard him and then have watched Wayne and his new best friend Jerry add players (remember Rich Aurilia wasn't signed at the time) who are 37, 34, and 29 years old and see them start ahead of early 20's guys.

I don't know the philosophy here, but I hope someone clues me in fast. Batting Rich Aurilia cleanup and Kearns 7th makes me scratch my head. What is the philosophy? Replacing Lopez with Castro and EdE with Aurilia is causing me hair loss.

Is there hope? I hope so. I'm getting too old to wait much longer for a winner. I thought this might be a Cinderella year. Looks like I picked the wrong year to quit sniffing glue...

GAC
07-06-2006, 07:48 AM
This is basically the same team as last year with Phillips, Hat, Castro, McCracken, and Ross added and a pitching staff made up of similar or worse people.

Respectfully WV - this is not the same team as last year - and you just listed abundant reasons why.


Why do we gripe?

We shouldn't. How many thought we'd be above .500 and 2 games out of 1st place in early July? ;)


This is the same team with a similar manager as last year

I don't see any similarities at all between Narron and Miley. None.


What is the philosophy? Replacing Lopez with Castro and EdE with Aurilia is causing me hair loss.

These two are not replacing anyone. You heard Narron say that Castro allows him to REST Lopez. And Lopez has not exactly been on fire as of late.

We've beat the EE discussion to death - so I ain't going there except to say he'll be starting back at 3B now that he's back - and RA will be platooning again with Hat. You watch. ;)


Is there hope? I hope so. I'm getting too old to wait much longer for a winner. I thought this might be a Cinderella year. Looks like I picked the wrong year to quit sniffing glue...

We all should be very hopeful and optimistic at what Castellini and Krivsky have done in such a short order.

Krivsky was handed a mess, and look what moves he has made that have brought improvement to this team.

One cannot expect a miracle to be performed in such a short time. I guess Wayne shouldn't have done so, and moved the team in the right direction. He raised some's optimism so high this year, that when the team shows it's weaknesses and struggles, many come crashing back down to earth and complain "same-o, same-o".

It's not.

Would some of you give these guys (Kriv and Cas) a chance for cryin' out loud?

I'm losing more patience with the fans then this management. ;)

I apologize now for the following statement - but some of you act like spoiled children that no matter what you hand them it's still not enough.

Yes - Krivsky has made some moves that are doubtful and skeptical.

I'm sorry he hasn't raised himself to the level of "perfection" that so many on here seem to have attained when it comes to the game of baseball; but his positive moves have far exceeded those skeptical moves.

Finally - we have no idea what this guy is doing "behind the scenes". But for the most part, and from what I have seen so far, yes, I do trust the guy.

They know full well that they have a serious problem with this bullpen, and that our pitching, while showing improvement, ain't there yet.

But it's not like he can snap his fingers and fix this problem.

Breaking News: we're going into the break in the running for 1st place, and we were tied for the WC slot.

Lets see what happens before we fold our tents up. ;)

membengal
07-06-2006, 08:41 AM
Yeah. Imagine that. Terry Ryan was forced to start taking chances and comes out ahead while Wayne Krivsky sits in his comfort zone and ends up with a team that's won consecutive games once in the past 30 days.

Standing ovation.

NJReds
07-06-2006, 09:34 AM
They made Ponson into a decent pitcher and he was crap the last few years.



Ponson...62.2 IP, 78 H, 39 ER, 25 BB, 29 K, 5.60 ERA, 1.64 WHIP, .318 BAA

I know we've suffered some through some pretty bad pitchers here over the past few years, but I wouldn't describe Ponson as "decent". :dunno:

traderumor
07-06-2006, 09:55 AM
Not sure what you mean by "What?".

Jerry Narron and Wayne Krivsky are responsible for the current constitution of the rotation and bullpen.

Don't particularly care how much time they've had to get things in order. But I do care about what they've done with the time they've had.

I think you know what I meant. To be unhappy with the bullpen situation is universal. To tie that to the recent contract extensions would not be much different than pointing out the extensions when Narron's strategy failed on the squeeze play. Yes, Krivsky has yet to construct a viable bullpen and Narron does not pick the reliever I would in certain situations. No, I do not think that raises red flags that either does not know what he's doing and that contract extensions are totally unwarranted on that basis.

There are certainly different things that could be done with the bullpen, but I do care about the time factor and that it seems every opponent except the White Sox and Mets have the same byline--"like the Reds, they're having their own bullpen troubles." Derrick Turnbow was selected to the All-Star Game as one of the top relievers. When they flashed his numbers Monday, he had a 4.04 ERA and he has showed that is not inflated by a few bad outings in this series and it is pushing 5 by now (of course, my mouth dropped when I heard he was chosen, anyhow).

I also suspect if the young guys were brought up here, we would be looking at Mike Burns-type efforts at this point. As much as I'd like to see a Brad Salmon get a chance and send David Weathers packing, I have a sinking feeling that if it was a no-brainer that he could get major league hitters out, he would be up here. Same with David Shafer or any of the other young guys who are getting minor league hitters out. I would imagine with the state of bullpens across the league, if we were holding some young guys back or undervaluing some youngsters, some other teams would be plucking them in minor trades.

In other words, unrealistic expectations and an unreasonable evaluation standard seem to trigger your disdain.

SteelSD
07-06-2006, 12:57 PM
I think you know what I meant. To be unhappy with the bullpen situation is universal. To tie that to the recent contract extensions would not be much different than pointing out the extensions when Narron's strategy failed on the squeeze play. Yes, Krivsky has yet to construct a viable bullpen and Narron does not pick the reliever I would in certain situations. No, I do not think that raises red flags that either does not know what he's doing and that contract extensions are totally unwarranted on that basis.

Ah, so Krivsky hasn't demonstrated he's yet capable of finding help and Narron has issues with both construction and usage. But no red flags. Right.


There are certainly different things that could be done with the bullpen, but I do care about the time factor and that it seems every opponent except the White Sox and Mets have the same byline--"like the Reds, they're having their own bullpen troubles." Derrick Turnbow was selected to the All-Star Game as one of the top relievers. When they flashed his numbers Monday, he had a 4.04 ERA and he has showed that is not inflated by a few bad outings in this series and it is pushing 5 by now (of course, my mouth dropped when I heard he was chosen, anyhow).

Spring Training wasn't yesterday. We're now over halfway through a season in which the Reds entered with a bullpen that looked to be bad, nothing has been done to make it any better, and the issues have been compounded by Narron's inability to use the right options at the right time.


I also suspect if the young guys were brought up here, we would be looking at Mike Burns-type efforts at this point. As much as I'd like to see a Brad Salmon get a chance and send David Weathers packing, I have a sinking feeling that if it was a no-brainer that he could get major league hitters out, he would be up here. Same with David Shafer or any of the other young guys who are getting minor league hitters out. I would imagine with the state of bullpens across the league, if we were holding some young guys back or undervaluing some youngsters, some other teams would be plucking them in minor trades.

In Management You Trust. Sorry, not me. They have to earn it. And I've yet to figure out how calling up a currently successful minor league who isn't guaranteed to get MLB hitters out is a worse option than bringing in chaff like Joe Mays and Esteban Yan- who've already demonstrated they can't get MLB hitters out. If the tradeoff is a coin-flip proposition versus a near-100% chance of suckage, I'll take the coin flip every single time.


In other words, unrealistic expectations and an unreasonable evaluation standard seem to trigger your disdain.

No. Doing nothing to correct a glaring problem triggers my distain. My expectations and standards are perfectly reasonable: Do something positive to help fix what's broken. And you'll have to pardon me for not playing the excuse game when there's nothing stopping the Reds from taking action.

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 01:09 PM
No. Doing nothing to correct a glaring problem triggers my distain. My expectations and standards are perfectly reasonable: Do something positive to help fix what's broken. And you'll have to pardon me for not playing the excuse game when there's nothing stopping the Reds from taking action.

On the other hand, there are maybe 4 pitchers in the entire staff that can retire batters on a somewhat-consistent basis (Arroyo, Harang, Ramirez and Coffey). The number of moves that would be required to fix the mess makes it cost-prohibitive to do much of anything about it.

If this team was a starter away or a set-up man away, maybe I'd be upset -- but this team is a starter, a set up man, and 2 middle relievers away from being competitive on a nightly basis. How much does that cost to get? Probably more than the prospect-starved Reds can afford to give up.

There are two schools of thought at work here: School 1 says that you only stay healthy and get off to a good start every so often, and you've got to pull out all the stops to win right now when you have the chance. School 2 says that you should never mortgage tomorrrow just because you're riding a hot streak today. I fall firmly into school 2.

The one point I do agree with you about is dipping down to the minors. As bad as Weathers, Mercker, and Yan have been this year, there is no reason why Calvin Medlock or Jon Coutlangas haven't been at least given a chance to hold a spot down in middle relief.

SteelSD
07-06-2006, 01:20 PM
On the other hand, there are maybe 4 pitchers in the entire staff that can retire batters on a somewhat-consistent basis (Arroyo, Harang, Ramirez and Coffey). The number of moves that would be required to fix the mess makes it cost-prohibitive to do much of anything about it.

If this team was a starter away or a set-up man away, maybe I'd be upset -- but this team is a starter, a set up man, and 2 middle relievers away from being competitive on a nightly basis. How much does that cost to get? Probably more than the prospect-starved Reds can afford to give up.

There are two schools of thought at work here: School 1 says that you only stay healthy and get off to a good start every so often, and you've got to pull out all the stops to win right now when you have the chance. School 2 says that you should never mortgage tomorrrow just because you're riding a hot streak today. I fall firmly into school 2.

The one point I do agree with you about is dipping down to the minors. As bad as Weathers, Mercker, and Yan have been this year, there is no reason why Calvin Medlock or Jon Coutlangas haven't been at least given a chance to hold a spot down in middle relief.

And that doesn't bode well for the short or long term outlook if true. But I don't think it is cost-prohibitive. The Reds have chips at the MLB level. And I'd have no issue cashing some in for long-term help. In fact, I'd have zero issue if cashing in meant we see a small step backwards in the short term because this team, as currently composed, has little chance of reaching the brass ring at any point in the forseeable future.

To me, the schools of thought are to stay the course and hope something can be done in the offseason or get cracking right now. The former isn't going to offer the Reds much hope of winning this season but the latter might produce the necessary effect while also solidifying the Reds window over the next few seasons.

OldXOhio
07-06-2006, 01:41 PM
To me, the schools of thought are to stay the course and hope something can be done in the offseason or get cracking right now. The former isn't going to offer the Reds much hope of winning this season but the latter might produce the necessary effect while also solidifying the Reds window over the next few seasons.

If the on field performance doesn't change soon, then Krivsky can get cracking now as you say and won't have the fan fallout from giving up on a potential playoff spot to deal with.

And I simply can't see how things on the field are going to get markedly better.

Puffy
07-06-2006, 01:46 PM
Would some of you give these guys (Kriv and Cas) a chance for cryin' out loud?

I'm losing more patience with the fans then this management. ;)

I apologize now for the following statement - but some of you act like spoiled children that no matter what you hand them it's still not enough.

Yes - Krivsky has made some moves that are doubtful and skeptical.

I'm sorry he hasn't raised himself to the level of "perfection" that so many on here seem to have attained when it comes to the game of baseball; but his positive moves have far exceeded those skeptical moves.

Finally - we have no idea what this guy is doing "behind the scenes". But for the most part, and from what I have seen so far, yes, I do trust the guy.



Sorry GAC - but aren't you the same guy who told everyone to give Lindner a chance time after time in the beginning?

And aren't you the same guy who stated time and again that Boone was doing a decent job and we just needed to give him time?

And aren't you also the one who claimed that O'Brien needed time and he couldn't possibly be as bad as Bowden - and we needed to give O'Brien time to right the ship?

And weren't you also the one who preached time and patience for Miley?

Seems to be that maybe your trust, historically, may have been misplaced.

NJReds
07-06-2006, 02:10 PM
Sorry GAC - but aren't you the same guy who told everyone to give Lindner a chance time after time in the beginning?

And aren't you the same guy who stated time and again that Boone was doing a decent job and we just needed to give him time?

And aren't you also the one who claimed that O'Brien needed time and he couldn't possibly be as bad as Bowden - and we needed to give O'Brien time to right the ship?

And weren't you also the one who preached time and patience for Miley?

Seems to be that maybe your trust, historically, may have been misplaced.

So what's the answer. Go the old Steinbrenner route and run people out of town after 3 months?

This organization has been awful for 5 years; how do you turn it around in one day? Reading this board after a few losses, it seems as though there are quite a few candidates that believe they could step into WK's shoes and guide this team to the world series this year.

membengal
07-06-2006, 02:12 PM
Why do people equate criticism of a current move as being a call for WK to be fired? Again, why the absolutes?

I can state unequivocally that I think that WK spit the bit with his roster move bringing in Castro and being forced to mothball EE for far longer than necessary without calling for him to be fired. I hope he does it differently next time, and will be critical as hell if he doesn't do it differently next time, but don't want him fired either. Why does genuine disagreement with a move somehow mean that I (or others that disagree with something he has done) want him gone?

NJReds
07-06-2006, 02:17 PM
Why do people equate criticism of a current move as being a call for WK to be fired? Again, why the absolutes?


That's the conclusion I drew from the post to which I responded. All the people mentioned in that post were eventually fired (or sold the team in the case of Linder).

Puffy
07-06-2006, 02:35 PM
That's the conclusion I drew from the post to which I responded. All the people mentioned in that post were eventually fired (or sold the team in the case of Linder).

Well, it was the wrong conclusion.

So many people on here are throwing out the In Wayne we Trust that when people question one of Wayne's moves its "he's done well so far" or "he got us Phillips and Arroyo."

My point was the guy is batting around .500 and doesn't deserve the demigod status that some afford him on here. But no where did I mention anything about firing anyone.

NJReds
07-06-2006, 02:55 PM
Well, it was the wrong conclusion.

So many people on here are throwing out the In Wayne we Trust that when people question one of Wayne's moves its "he's done well so far" or "he got us Phillips and Arroyo."

My point was the guy is batting around .500 and doesn't deserve the demigod status that some afford him on here. But no where did I mention anything about firing anyone.

He definitely doesn't deserve demigod status. But he can't build a pennant-winner in a couple of months, either.

I apologize if I came to the wrong conclusion. But reading that post, it sure comes across as though you were calling out GAC for defending WK based on his preaching patience for a bunch of people who were eventully fired and are considered incompetent.

VR
07-06-2006, 03:05 PM
So here's the plan for Narron.

1. We'll start by giving you a bullpen that is garbage
2. Then, take away your pitching coach
3. Give you 3 decent starters.....

and then expect you to work miracles by magically using them in the right situations to produce optimal results?

Caveat Emperor
07-06-2006, 03:31 PM
So here's the plan for Narron.

1. We'll start by giving you a bullpen that is garbage
2. Then, take away your pitching coach
3. Give you 3 decent starters.....

and then expect you to work miracles by magically using them in the right situations to produce optimal results?

I don't know what the question is, but the answer most assuredly doesn't involve any combination of the following gentlemen:

1.) Kent Mercker
2.) David Weathers
3.) Chris Hammond
4.) Rick White
5.) Joe Mays
6.) Eric Milton
7.) Esteban Yan
8.) Jason Standridge
9.) Brian Shackleford in anything other than a LOOGY capacity
10.) Mike Burns

There's an answer to be found, though. Just that these guys aren't it. You can keep answering the question incorrectly, or you can try something else and hope to get it right. If Krivsky is playing for 2007/2008, then I understand just dogging it this year, not making an rash moves, and rebuilding the club in the offseason -- but if he's playing to win this year, he's doing a damned strange job of it when it comes to making a pitching staff.

VR
07-06-2006, 03:35 PM
I don't know what the question is, but the answer most assuredly doesn't involve any combination of the following gentlemen:

1.) Kent Mercker
2.) David Weathers
3.) Chris Hammond
4.) Rick White
5.) Joe Mays
6.) Eric Milton
7.) Esteban Yan
8.) Jason Standridge
9.) Brian Shackleford in anything other than a LOOGY capacity
10.) Mike Burns

There's an answer to be found, though. Just that these guys aren't it. You can keep answering the question incorrectly, or you can try something else and hope to get it right. If Krivsky is playing for 2007/2008, then I understand just dogging it this year, not making an rash moves, and rebuilding the club in the offseason -- but if he's playing to win this year, he's doing a damned strange job of it when it comes to making a pitching staff.

No one doubts the garbage, but who is out there to acquire? Bullpens are exceptionally shallow throughout the majors, not too many quality pen guys are changing hands right now.
Maybe there have been many deals on the table, but Wayne just will not overpay for middle relievers right now.....which is the best thing for this club in the very near term.

registerthis
07-06-2006, 03:49 PM
My point was the guy is batting around .500

Bat him cleanup!

Puffy
07-06-2006, 03:58 PM
Bat him cleanup!

Hey! Thats where Aurilia bats - and don't you forget it!

traderumor
07-06-2006, 04:43 PM
Ah, so Krivsky hasn't demonstrated he's yet capable of finding help and Narron has issues with both construction and usage. But no red flags. Right.



Spring Training wasn't yesterday. We're now over halfway through a season in which the Reds entered with a bullpen that looked to be bad, nothing has been done to make it any better, and the issues have been compounded by Narron's inability to use the right options at the right time.



In Management You Trust. Sorry, not me. They have to earn it. And I've yet to figure out how calling up a currently successful minor league who isn't guaranteed to get MLB hitters out is a worse option than bringing in chaff like Joe Mays and Esteban Yan- who've already demonstrated they can't get MLB hitters out. If the tradeoff is a coin-flip proposition versus a near-100% chance of suckage, I'll take the coin flip every single time.



No. Doing nothing to correct a glaring problem triggers my distain. My expectations and standards are perfectly reasonable: Do something positive to help fix what's broken. And you'll have to pardon me for not playing the excuse game when there's nothing stopping the Reds from taking action.
When I see the predominance of teams having major bullpen issues, then I know it is simply not the Reds imcompetence or lack of ability to construct and use a bullpen. I think you are terribly oversimplifying the issue as if bullpen arms are ears of corn sitting ripe in the field just waiting for the GM with enough gumption to just pluck them at will.

In our own division, name one team that has a consistent, productive bullpen. In the East, the NY Mets have compiled some nice arms, as I already mentioned. I'm not sure about Florida other than cutting Wellemeyer recently, but the Braves and Phillies have nothing in their pen. I'll have to plead ignorance in the West except for Arizona, who also had a struggling bullpen blowing leads up to the time they played the Reds. The AL, I do not follow enough, but I think the bad bullpens outnumber the good ones in that league as well.

So, rather than jumping to the immediate conclusion that it is a management problem, I see the primary issue Krivsky facing is an economic problem in the game, good ole supply and demand--with demand exceeding supply in a particular area of the game. As for his competence in the area, you are apparently a better man than I and are able to assess the entirety of the situation based on the current body of work.

Ltlabner
07-06-2006, 04:43 PM
No one doubts the garbage, but who is out there to acquire? Bullpens are exceptionally shallow throughout the majors, not too many quality pen guys are changing hands right now.
Maybe there have been many deals on the table, but Wayne just will not overpay for middle relievers right now.....which is the best thing for this club in the very near term.


Couldn't agree more VR. I don't know where this magical pool of all-star pitching tallent that is available for free resides but I sure wish the people who think it exists would tell us. Maybe they could rattle off the long list of other super deluxe pitchers that have been traded thus far this year? I'd be interested to hear this long list.....

If The Kriv went out and mortgaged the future by trading Dunn (because he has a lot of value IMO) and got a rent-a-pitcher or horrifically overspent this board would melt down. If he went out an tied down the team with a gazzillion dollar contract for a top flight pitcher we'd hear nothing but a chorus of, "I don't know...that's a lot of money...did the same thing with Eric Milton....".

And before you launch into a round of how I drink the kool-aide, I don't like them bringing Burns back again, bringing Mayes/Yan to town, the three catcher deal, etc. I don't think The Kriv walks on water. I am smart enough, however, to realize that in the first 2 or 3 months of the seasons there is just going to be slim pickings in the trade market. I'm also paitent enough to know the abuse of the Schott/Bowden/Lidner/O'Brian era isn't going to be undone by August.

I'm more interested in the big picture and remember that this is a long season that is frankly a "rebuilding" year of sorts. The Bengals didn't go to the playoffs the 1st year Marvin came to town. Nor will the Reds win the WS in this new ragimes 1st year. To be where they are in a "rebuilding" year is pretty impressive. Instead of going through wild mood swings over each and every little decision, it's better to guage performance in the long haul. That also helps keep in perspective that this is a GAME to be enjoyed.