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MrCinatit
07-15-2006, 10:00 PM
Wow!

Tornon
07-15-2006, 10:00 PM
Denorfia grounds one to short and the SS misses the ball.. REDS WIN!!

WVRedsFan
07-15-2006, 10:00 PM
Deno is superman!

Reds Fanatic
07-15-2006, 10:00 PM
Reds win!!!!!

KronoRed
07-15-2006, 10:00 PM
The legend is born

RFS62
07-15-2006, 10:00 PM
Sweet Sassy Molassy!!!!!!

Matt700wlw
07-15-2006, 10:00 PM
Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!!Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!! Deno!!!!Deno!!!!

:jump: :jump: :rockband: :party:

NJReds
07-15-2006, 10:00 PM
http://ffmedia.ign.com/filmforce/image/object/033/033915/ff_superman-teaserposter_object_468.jpg

TheBurn
07-15-2006, 10:01 PM
Deno !!! :jump:

Ravenlord
07-15-2006, 10:01 PM
thank God the Rockies think Barmes is good (yes i know he didn't start the game).

good job Deno.

Eric_Davis
07-15-2006, 10:01 PM
It's your birthday!

It's your birthday!

It's your birthday!

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:01 PM
yes!!!!!!!!

WISE CAN FLY!!!!!

captainmorgan07
07-15-2006, 10:01 PM
wow unbelieveable wat a win

MrCinatit
07-15-2006, 10:01 PM
Today's game was certainly a rollercoaster of emotion

Tony Cloninger
07-15-2006, 10:01 PM
was that lopez who booted it?

vaticanplum
07-15-2006, 10:02 PM
Holy cannoli

guttle11
07-15-2006, 10:02 PM
Denorfia Skywalker. He used the force.

Tornon
07-15-2006, 10:02 PM
Officially ruled a single.. Steve made it sound like an error

Highlifeman21
07-15-2006, 10:02 PM
The legend is born

And on his Bday, no less.

Putting in Wise as a PR, great move.

TheBigLebowski
07-15-2006, 10:02 PM
Chris Denorfia's first job was a paperboy.

There were no survivors.

RFS62
07-15-2006, 10:03 PM
That ball had so much Deno Mojo on it no human could possibly have fielded it.

TheBigLebowski
07-15-2006, 10:03 PM
Chris Denorfia's first job was a paperboy.

There were no survivors.

Eric_Davis
07-15-2006, 10:03 PM
Happy Birthday Deno!

MrCinatit
07-15-2006, 10:03 PM
Officially ruled a single.. Steve made it sound like an error

That's what it sounded like to me, as well.

George Foster
07-15-2006, 10:03 PM
Arroyo screwed again...but great pitching

RedFanAlways1966
07-15-2006, 10:04 PM
Wow... wow! It looked bleak. Nice win! :beerme:

Caveat Emperor
07-15-2006, 10:04 PM
Chris Denorfia Fact #543: There are three types of people in this world: those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and Chris Denorfia, the man who makes whatever he wants happen.

RBA
07-15-2006, 10:04 PM
Most shortstops make that play. I say it was an error. I'm still not impressed with Deno's bat.

Reds1
07-15-2006, 10:04 PM
I started running around the house after the hit! My kids just turned up the tv on me. LOL. Bray the winner. Sorry about Arroyo, but we got the win. I'm pumped.

NJReds
07-15-2006, 10:04 PM
Congrats to Brey on his first Reds win. (Sorry BA)

George Foster
07-15-2006, 10:04 PM
was it a boot, or a real hit? Did anybody see it?

Gallen5862
07-15-2006, 10:04 PM
"And this one belongs to the Reds." Congratulations Deno on your Birthday win. Congratulations Bray on your first Reds win.

Reds Fanatic
07-15-2006, 10:05 PM
The shortstop was about to field that ball and then he remembered who hit it and decided he was not worthy.

Eric_Davis
07-15-2006, 10:05 PM
Reds score 3 runs each of the last two games and win both games.

Excellent pitching!

TheBigLebowski
07-15-2006, 10:05 PM
Chris Denorfia does not wear a watch. HE decides what time it is.

KronoRed
07-15-2006, 10:05 PM
Chris Denorfia's first job was a paperboy.

There were no survivors.
:laugh:

Reds1
07-15-2006, 10:05 PM
Most shortstops make that play. I say it was an error. I'm still not impressed with Deno's bat.


Get that negativity out of here. Reds win! ;)

TheBigLebowski
07-15-2006, 10:06 PM
Chris Denorfia eats steak for every single meal. He sometimes forgets to kill the cow.

captainmorgan07
07-15-2006, 10:06 PM
i'll give the magic man a mulligan tonite 2 of those 3 hits were seeing eye singles but he has to pitch better good nite for arroyo shoulda got a win bray was impressive and what patience in the 9th even bp drew a walk

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:07 PM
3-0

Bray gets the W

Wise is freaking fast. Krivsky made the right move calling him up and getting rid of Q.

We finally get the infamous Felipe error game in Detroit back.

StillFunkyB
07-15-2006, 10:07 PM
So, when is Boss and GIK changing the name of RedsZone to "Sons of Chris Denorfia"? :evil:

Aronchis
07-15-2006, 10:07 PM
Deno looks like is pressing a little bit, trying to show the bosses he can do the job. Don't worry, you are right up Narron's ally lol..........

Deno is doing his post-Match Hulk Hogan type show on the top of the Reds clubhouse, the girls are going wild!!!!!;)

Eric_Davis
07-15-2006, 10:07 PM
I have no idea what you are smoking - but can I have a hit or two off it?

Majewski was piece number 2 in this trade. Harris is 26 and they send him to AAA, thats not a second piece. If he was 21 or 22 then OK, but not 26 and back to AAA. He's a utility guy. Thompson just had sholuder surgery, he could end up great, but he's a longshot. Not piece 2.

Maybe Majewski is #3 and Harris is #4, but Thompson is a far distant #2 ahead of either of them.

captainmorgan07
07-15-2006, 10:08 PM
wise was on his horse that was a heck of an ending happy birthday deno

captainmorgan07
07-15-2006, 10:08 PM
we go another game up in the wildcard

Edskin
07-15-2006, 10:08 PM
I watched it live and I think it was going to be a single either way. The ball had a big bounce to it and Barmes' momentum wasn't really headed toward first. My guess is that if he fielded it cleanly, Deno still would have beaten it out. But by not fielding it, he definitely allowed the winning run to score.

This is one of those games that makes you go "Hmmmmmm...."

This game was a gift-- didn't hit the ball out of the infield in the 9th, yet score two runs to win. Teams that win those kinds of games usually manage to stay in the race.

Matt700wlw
07-15-2006, 10:09 PM
The shortstop was about to field that ball and then he remembered who hit it and decided he was not worthy.

It would have ripped his arm out of his socket

RBA
07-15-2006, 10:09 PM
Get that negativity out of here. Reds win! ;)

What negativity? Just giving out what I see. Granted, I think the SS was worried about Deno's speed. It would of been a bang, bang play.

I didn't know there was a rule against being honest.

Eric_Davis
07-15-2006, 10:09 PM
Chris Denorfia does not wear a watch. HE decides what time it is.


I like that.

Edskin
07-15-2006, 10:10 PM
Let's not forget BP-- he drew the walk that started it. Anyone have BP's late inning OBP?

captainmorgan07
07-15-2006, 10:10 PM
Let's not forget BP-- he drew the walk that started it. Anyone have BP's late inning OBP?
then had the big sb on clayton's k

George Foster
07-15-2006, 10:11 PM
What negativity? Just giving out what I see. Granted, I think the SS was worried about Deno's speed. It would of been a bang, bang play.

I didn't know there was a rule against being honest.

You are honest...2 hits in 3 games is nothing to get excited about.

WVRedsFan
07-15-2006, 10:12 PM
New Superman line:

AB 14
R 0
Hits 3
RBI 2
BB 0
K 2
LOB 3
AVG .214

WVRedsFan
07-15-2006, 10:14 PM
Did Denorfia just have a walk off single?

D-Man
07-15-2006, 10:14 PM
Let's not forget BP-- he drew the walk that started it. Anyone have BP's late inning OBP?

.300/.375/.360 in close and late ABs

Reds Fanatic
07-15-2006, 10:14 PM
Let's not forget BP-- he drew the walk that started it. Anyone have BP's late inning OBP?
Coming into tonight from the 7th inning on he has a .409 OBP and a .455 SLG for an OPS of .864

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:14 PM
New Superman line:

AB 14
R 0
Hits 3
RBI 2
BB 0
K 2
LOB 3
AVG .214
It's 14 ABs.

If he goes 3-3 tomorrow where will his average be?

Caveat Emperor
07-15-2006, 10:15 PM
Did Denorfia just have a walk off single?

Chris Denorfia hates walk off hits because he believes in hustle. They are referred to as blazing-speed-off hits when he gets them.

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:15 PM
Did Denorfia just have a walk off single?
Yes. A walkoff, 2 run, infield single.

You see those all the time.
:lol:

George Foster
07-15-2006, 10:16 PM
Coming into tonight from the 7th inning on he has a .409 OBP and a .455 SLG for an OPS of .864


I know, I know it's to early to compair guys, but man those numbers by Phillips is ah...Barry Larkin like............:thumbup:

TheBigLebowski
07-15-2006, 10:22 PM
Interesting quandary:

It is a given that neither Clint Barmes nor any other human being could have fielded that ball.

However, could Chris Denorfia have fielded that ball in that situation?

Matt700wlw
07-15-2006, 10:23 PM
Interesting quandary:

It is a given that neither Clint Barmes nor any other human being could have fielded that ball.

However, could Chris Denorfia have fielded that ball in that situation?


There is no ball that is unfieldable for Chris Denorfia.

Eric_Davis
07-15-2006, 10:23 PM
It would have ripped his arm out of his socket

Sounds just like the shot Jesse Barfield booted last night in the ninth to let the Braves back in the game.

Reds1
07-15-2006, 10:24 PM
What negativity? Just giving out what I see. Granted, I think the SS was worried about Deno's speed. It would of been a bang, bang play.

I didn't know there was a rule against being honest.

;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

I was just joking

Deno coming on player of the game whoever is still listening to wLW

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:25 PM
Sounds just like the shot Jesse Barfield booted last night in the ninth to let the Braves back in the game.
He was joking. it was a big chopper to SS. I think he would have beat it, but he definately didn't smash it.

Big Klu
07-15-2006, 10:26 PM
.197 for the year is a much more dependable sample size.

I don't necessarily agree with that. In a micro situation, like batting with a runner in scoring position with two outs in the ninth, it is probably better to look at how the player is performing on a micro level--that is, how he is performing lately. LaRue's trend is definitely upward right now. Plate appearances in April and May carry less weight on the micro level than plate appearances in the last week. (However, on the macro level, they all carry the same weight.)

George Foster
07-15-2006, 10:35 PM
I don't necessarily agree with that. In a micro situation, like batting with a runner in scoring position with two outs in the ninth, it is probably better to look at how the player is performing on a micro level--that is, how he is performing lately. LaRue's trend is definitely upward right now. Plate appearances in April and May carry less weight on the micro level than plate appearances in the last week. (However, on the macro level, they all carry the same weight.)

I agree, players get hot...and cold

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:38 PM
Lopez is batting with the bases loaded AGAIN!

This is absurd.

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:38 PM
And Felipe strikes out.

wow.

guttle11
07-15-2006, 10:43 PM
Lopez plays for the Nationals.

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:45 PM
Lopez plays for the Nationals.
:rolleyes:

Really? I had no idea.

Falls City Beer
07-15-2006, 10:49 PM
Time to drink the drinkin' money.

guttle11
07-15-2006, 10:50 PM
:rolleyes:

Really? I had no idea.

This is the Reds game thread.

Gallen5862
07-15-2006, 10:50 PM
The Nats fans want to send Lopez back to the Reds. We can offer them Yan for him lol. :)

reds44
07-15-2006, 10:52 PM
This is the Reds game thread.
It is?

Fooled me again.

Falls City Beer
07-15-2006, 10:54 PM
It is?

Fooled me again.

I tell ya: after a thrilling finish to a thrilling game, nothing quite like watching an argument unfold.:beerme: :beerme:

Tony Cloninger
07-15-2006, 11:01 PM
Ohhhh....Cat Fight!

Let me get my Jack and Coke first, please.


Anyone have Reggie Taylor's AB's in the minors?

Or Rick White's pitch by pitch data?

KronoRed
07-15-2006, 11:02 PM
Or Rick White's pitch by pitch data?
That's scary

Tony Cloninger
07-15-2006, 11:04 PM
About as scary as my 1970 WS performance?

flyer85
07-15-2006, 11:32 PM
Majewski doesn't suck. His ERA before the trade was 3.11. .after watching him the last two nights he is similatr to Coffey with less stuff. A very pedestrian relief pitcher who doesn't miss many bats. Bray had better be off the charts.

flyer85
07-15-2006, 11:39 PM
I choose to believe he's still hurt.Then why does Doc Hollywood never talk about him on the daily health report. We hear about Freel and Ross not being able to start yet, however, he has been completely silent on EE since he has been back.

Of course, the simple and most likely answer is he is healthy and Narron is simply choosing to play Aurilia.

Chip R
07-15-2006, 11:39 PM
That ball had so much Deno Mojo on it no human could possibly have fielded it.

Incorrect. One human could have fielded it. His name is Chris Denorfia.

pedro
07-15-2006, 11:42 PM
Then why does Doc Hollywood never talk about him on the daily health report. We hear about Freel and Ross not being able to start yet, however, he has been completely silent on EE since he has been back.

Of course, the simple and most likely answer is he is healthy and Narron is simply choosing to play Aurilia.

It's starting to look that way. I hope they figure it out before they wast to many more AB's against RHP with Aurilia.

flyer85
07-15-2006, 11:44 PM
It's starting to look that way. I hope they figure it out before they wast to many more AB's against RHP with Aurilia.It could be worse they could be wasting bats on a SS with limited range who can't hit ... oh wait they already are.

pedro
07-15-2006, 11:48 PM
It could be worse they could be wasting bats on a SS with limited range who can't hit ... oh wait they already are.

We'll see if Lopez pulls out of the tail spin he's been in. I hope he does but I'm not bemoning his loss too much. He was an absolute travesty in the field and hasn't very well this year either. The only thing going well for Lopez this year was his running game.

flyer85
07-15-2006, 11:50 PM
We'll see if Lopez pulls out of the tail spin he's been in. Has nothing to do with Lopez, the Reds have several options that are better than Clayton. His range, if better than Lopez is not by much, most major league SS make the play he easily that he just barely get his glove on. Then again 36 year olds that can actually play the position well are extremely rare.

pedro
07-15-2006, 11:52 PM
Has nothing to do with Lopez, the Reds have several options that are better than Clayton. His range, if better than Lopez is not by much, most major league SS make the play he easily that he just barely get his glove on. Then again 36 year olds that can actually play the position well are extremely rare.

True.

Newport Red
07-16-2006, 12:02 AM
Incorrect. One human could have fielded it. His name is Chris Denorfia.

From right field, I agree with you. Could he have fielded it from the catcher's position though.

Ltlabner
07-16-2006, 12:07 AM
Some observations from GABP:

1) Nice crowd. 33k+.

2) Bray had some nice stuff and worked a nice 1-2-3 inning.

3) BA's attempt for #10 is cursed.

4) ATTN MEMBENGAL: Being a man of my word, when I said before the ASB in the great "EE conspiricy debate" that if Narron continued to bench EE for other than health reasons that I would join the group calling foul. Well....FOUL. If he's hurt put him on the DL. If he's fine play him. If he's in the dog house trade him. Unless there's a trade brewing and they don't want to take a chance on him getting hurt (which is an unlikely scenario) then there is no reason for him not to start.

5) While I have not lost any sleep over loosing Lopez, Clayton at SS is definatley a really bad idea. I'd rather see EE at 3b and RA/Castro at SS than that guy.

6) Majeski has been less than confidence inspiring thus far in his two appearances. But I'm sure the "small sample size" crowd will give him a fair chance before railing on him....;)

7) The goofy "kiss cam" "dance cam", "sofa cam", "skyline chili shuffle", and assorted other promotional activities are really annoying. Just my opinion.

Falls City Beer
07-16-2006, 12:09 AM
"skyline chili shuffle"

I've had that before. Unpleasant.

RFS62
07-16-2006, 12:10 AM
Did Denorfia just have a walk off single?



Yep. Anybody can knock one out of the park for a walk off. Takes a real man to hit a walk off two run infield single.

flyer85
07-16-2006, 12:11 AM
6) Majeski has been less than confidence inspiring thus far in his two appearances. But I'm sure the "small sample size" crowd will give him a fair chance before railing on him....;) after watching him the last two nights he is Coffey with a little less stuff, certainly nothing special, a middle relief innings eater who can pitch often.

Chip R
07-16-2006, 12:11 AM
From right field, I agree with you. Could he have fielded it from the catcher's position though.

What is you, ignorant? This is Chris Denorfia we are talking about. Now the question is, could Chris Denorfia throw Chris Denorfia out?

Caveat Emperor
07-16-2006, 12:13 AM
Now the question is, could Chris Denorfia throw Chris Denorfia out?

It'd be such a close play at the plate, you'd need Chris Denorfia (and his amazing vision) to be the umpire to decide.

reds44
07-16-2006, 12:15 AM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060716/capt.d12bb38744bf493e91e9dc3a7d3fe670.rockies_reds _baseball_csb101.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060716/capt.46ae6038de2a4344bb6d19f8b949d60a.rockies_reds _baseball_csb102.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060716/capt.3a5a611c4d2f4a15ba9dc11f05047f8a.rockies_reds _baseball_csb104.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060716/capt.4f1de7e7a9084995bf295857166d82ce.rockies_reds _baseball_csb105.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060716/capt.ef693d8709984bc1b36010217cbd1e67.rockies_reds _baseball_csb110.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060716/capt.03ad43619f1e464eab1c5a3494d6b2e1.rockies_reds _baseball_csb109.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060716/capt.81686cc0227d4577bf11472a62f47c9a.rockies_reds _baseball_csb107.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060716/capt.6c45ab3039fa422191f336fea3768439.rockies_reds _baseball_csb106.jpg

Oh and I forgot to mention this. Look at that, Edwin comes in and we score 2 runs.
;)

KittyDuran
07-16-2006, 12:25 AM
Officially ruled a single.. Steve made it sound like an errorFrom my vantage point it looked like an error...:)

RedsMan3203
07-16-2006, 01:00 AM
after watching him the last two nights he is Coffey with a little less stuff, certainly nothing special, a middle relief innings eater who can pitch often.


An ERA under 3, in 79 games. While striking out 50 and having 24 holds and 1 save with a record of 4 and 4 and only 4 blown saves as a rookie is nothing speical?

Bleh.. Small Sample Size... He is going to be a guy out of the pen for a carrer with a ERA under 4...

redsrule2500
07-16-2006, 01:02 AM
To boost this up even more...the Nationals lost due to their bullpen blowing a lead! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

flyer85
07-16-2006, 01:10 AM
Bleh.. Small Sample Size... He is going to be a guy out of the pen for a carrer with a ERA under 4...... an avergae reliever, and we'll found out how much of an advantage the run suppressing RFK was as well in his numbers.

ANd there is no doubt, that stuff wise, Coffey has the better. In the end the guys that have long successful careers as relievers miss a lot of bats.

Highlifeman21
07-16-2006, 01:12 AM
Time to drink the drinkin' money.

Weren't you drunk @ 4 PM today, FCB?

WMR
07-16-2006, 01:22 AM
I was at the game tonight. One of those games that is a true pleasure to end up winning.

pedro
07-16-2006, 02:03 AM
... an avergae reliever, and we'll found out how much of an advantage the run suppressing RFK was as well in his numbers.

ANd there is no doubt, that stuff wise, Coffey has the better. In the end the guys that have long successful careers as relievers miss a lot of bats.

His Home /Road splits don't support your contention that he was being helped by RFK.




AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS BAA OBP SLG OPS
vs. Left 82 21 4 0 2 14 9 1 16 1 1 .256 .333 .378 .711
vs. Right 132 30 8 2 2 12 16 0 18 1 0 .227 .311 .364 .674
Home 98 23 5 1 2 16 11 1 14 0 1 .235 .315 .367 .683
Away 116 28 7 1 2 10 14 0 20 2 0 .241 .323 .371 .694

WVRedsFan
07-16-2006, 02:13 AM
Of course, the simple and most likely answer is he is healthy and Narron is simply choosing to play Aurilia.

I know I aggravate people when I post like this, but it seems the whole Reds Nation (and I hate that term because they use it in St. Louis so much--Yuck!) can overlook Jerry Narron's obvious damning faults because the team is over .500. He plays Rich Aurilia everyday and bats him cleanup at the expense of EdE. His bullpen management borders on the ridiculous (how many flippin times did he go to Chris Hammond as his first choice out of the bullpen when fully 98% of the midwest electorate KNEW that Chris Hammond was washed up and would allow runs?). His...OK I quit, but maybe I expect too much. Maybe 4 over .500 is acceptable even though we know that we should have won about 7 or 8 more (putting us at 55-37 and in the division lead) if not for a lot of small decisions.

Jerry Narron is Texas Ranger baseball. He's never, ever won anything anywhere at anytime. He's not the future and YET we give him a two year extension so that he can do what he does.

I love the new attitude Bobby C. brought to ownership and I love the Wayne Krivsky can wheel and deal, but giving Narron a license to make this team mediocre is simply criminal.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the love. Are we so hungry to be 4 over .500 that we ignore all of this?

WVRedsFan
07-16-2006, 02:16 AM
I've had that before. Unpleasant.

Down here in West By Gawd we call that the green apple quick step.

Same difference.

No fun.

Marc D
07-16-2006, 02:35 AM
Originally Posted by WVRedsFan
Did Denorfia just have a walk off single?


We now see the genius that is Denorfia.

The 17 groundabll outs to SS were just to wear him out. Eventually Denofria won.

If you ever see Denofria in a fight with a bear, you better jump in and help that bear.

pedro
07-16-2006, 02:43 AM
I know I aggravate people when I post like this, but it seems the whole Reds Nation (and I hate that term because they use it in St. Louis so much--Yuck!) can overlook Jerry Narron's obvious damning faults because the team is over .500. He plays Rich Aurilia everyday and bats him cleanup at the expense of EdE. His bullpen management borders on the ridiculous (how many flippin times did he go to Chris Hammond as his first choice out of the bullpen when fully 98% of the midwest electorate KNEW that Chris Hammond was washed up and would allow runs?). His...OK I quit, but maybe I expect too much. Maybe 4 over .500 is acceptable even though we know that we should have won about 7 or 8 more (putting us at 55-37 and in the division lead) if not for a lot of small decisions.

Jerry Narron is Texas Ranger baseball. He's never, ever won anything anywhere at anytime. He's not the future and YET we give him a two year extension so that he can do what he does.

I love the new attitude Bobby C. brought to ownership and I love the Wayne Krivsky can wheel and deal, but giving Narron a license to make this team mediocre is simply criminal.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the love. Are we so hungry to be 4 over .500 that we ignore all of this?


I'm as sick of seeing RA in the lineup as the next guy but the idea that Narron has cost the Reds 7 or 8 wins is ridiculous IMO.

WVRedsFan
07-16-2006, 03:08 AM
I'm as sick of seeing RA in the lineup as the next guy but the idea that Narron has cost the Reds 7 or 8 wins is ridiculous IMO.

I think there's a strong case for that in all the times he put Chris Hammond out there as his first choice after the starter left. I can remember at least five times, but I don't have the time to research that. Games in which we were up and Hammond gave up two or more runs. Same can be said for the times he continued to use other pitchers who were obviously not at their best in his usual rotation. The times that he left pitchers in when it was obvious to all that they didn't have it. The way he leaves pitchers sitting on the bench and brings in his favorites constantly. His stubborness when it comes to playing the hot hand. His tendency to leave pitchers in too long. I could go on and on.

Don't get me wrong. It's wonderful that we are 4 games over .500 and playing somewhat well these days, but the opportunities we've had (which I can't remember at this late hour and my aging brain is not remembering) should have netted us a better record. And that's Ok for this year, but to think that we have committed to two more years of this really burns me up.

If you don't see where we could have 5-6-7-8 more wins just with proper handling of the pitching staff (as horrible as it is), then maybe I should check myself in to the lunatic ward. For too long, Reds fans have let Jerry off the hook for this poor bullpen. It's a lot more than that.
And no one wants Jerry and the Reds to be successful. If I'm wrong and we finish really well, i'll sit back and enjoy it just like you. But if we are to contend for championships, we need to have someone at the helm who will be able to go with the flow of the game. I don't see that.

Hide and watch.

pedro
07-16-2006, 03:14 AM
I'll say it again. The idea that the Reds should be 55-37 but for Jerry Narron is comical. They just aren't that good.

Is he great at managing the bullpen? Not really. Has been been forced to work with lousy pitchers? Yep.

Jerry Narron has not cost this team 7 or 8 wins. The bullpen has.

WVRedsFan
07-16-2006, 03:18 AM
I'll say it again. The idea that the Reds should be 55-37 but for Jerry Narron is comical. They just aren't that good.

Is he great at managing the bullpen? Not really. Has been been forced to work with lousy pitchers? Yep.

Jerry Narron has not cost this team 7 or 8 wins. The bullpen has.

Pedro, I'll yield for now for the sake of time, but keep score from now on and watch the blunders. Maybe he's no worse than the rest of the managers. I don't know for sure, but I do know that his decisions do not make sense to this old guy.

Of course, I'm not in MLB and have no experience. No, this team is not that good, but neither are the Cardinals and Astros.

redsrule2500
07-16-2006, 05:06 AM
Can anyone maybe consider that Narron is a better manager than you are sitting at home posting on a message board?

I think that if he is doing this much better, with a team that is almost identicle to years past, he deserves to continue managing. Whatever he is doing - he's doing it right. It's crazy to get on his case when he has taken this team far beyond expectations. As smart as you may think you are being the Reds manager, Narron is probably better.

WVRedsFan
07-16-2006, 01:33 PM
Can anyone maybe consider that Narron is a better manager than you are sitting at home posting on a message board?

I think that if he is doing this much better, with a team that is almost identicle to years past, he deserves to continue managing. Whatever he is doing - he's doing it right. It's crazy to get on his case when he has taken this team far beyond expectations. As smart as you may think you are being the Reds manager, Narron is probably better.

You are 100% correct. How dare me second guess? I should be thankful we have a manager. You never know what we've got until it's gone. Not another peep from me.

VR
07-16-2006, 01:44 PM
I'll say it again. The idea that the Reds should be 55-37 but for Jerry Narron is comical. They just aren't that good.

Is he great at managing the bullpen? Not really. Has been been forced to work with lousy pitchers? Yep.

Jerry Narron has not cost this team 7 or 8 wins. The bullpen has.

git yer facts straight

Jerry Narron 0-44
He is the reason for ALL those losses
Players 48-0
The players win in spite of him. He contributed nothing.

PuffyPig
07-16-2006, 01:50 PM
Everyone has the right to second guess, that's the fun in sports.

But if you find that in sports or even in business, that you continually disagree with the true professionals' descisions all the time, it's likely that you don't know as much as you think.

Because the people who have been doing for a long time and are making the big bucks to do so are likely right more often than the arm chair quarterbacks. Of course that doesn't mean they are right all the time, no one can be.But one reason why their descisions may seem wrong is because they generally have better info than we do.

Why don't they use a certain player in a game when it looks obvious to everyone that he should be? Maybe, just maybe, he's not available. We just don't know it. But his descision may well be correct under the circumstances.

A number of posters last night called out narron for not pinch hitting for Clayton and then Larue with the game on the line. I note than none of them actually offerered any idea as to who would pinch hit. lets look at what was available to narron at that time. With Fuentes pitching, who's absolutely filthy against LH hitters, the choice of Wise would not have been well, wise. Valetin is absolutely hopeless vs. LH pitching. That left EE and Castro. So, if you pinch it EE for Clayton, that means laure has to hit and you've got Castro hitting for the pitcher. EE might have been a better choice than either Clayton or Larue, but Clayton and Larue are certainly better choices than Castro, Wise and Valentin. So letting Clayton and Larue hit was the only sensible thing to do, saving EE for the pitchers spot.That's what's managing is all about, looking 3 moves ahead.

The posters who thought EE should pinch hit for Clayton/Larue would have been caught with their pants down when the pitchers spot came up.

redsrule2500
07-16-2006, 01:50 PM
You are 100% correct. How dare me second guess? I should be thankful we have a manager. You never know what we've got until it's gone. Not another peep from me.

:rolleyes: - I didn't say you have to be thankful we have a manager or that you shouldn't second guess, but way to exaggerate...

WMR
07-16-2006, 02:12 PM
I know I aggravate people when I post like this, but it seems the whole Reds Nation (and I hate that term because they use it in St. Louis so much--Yuck!) can overlook Jerry Narron's obvious damning faults because the team is over .500. He plays Rich Aurilia everyday and bats him cleanup at the expense of EdE. His bullpen management borders on the ridiculous (how many flippin times did he go to Chris Hammond as his first choice out of the bullpen when fully 98% of the midwest electorate KNEW that Chris Hammond was washed up and would allow runs?). His...OK I quit, but maybe I expect too much. Maybe 4 over .500 is acceptable even though we know that we should have won about 7 or 8 more (putting us at 55-37 and in the division lead) if not for a lot of small decisions.

Jerry Narron is Texas Ranger baseball. He's never, ever won anything anywhere at anytime. He's not the future and YET we give him a two year extension so that he can do what he does.

I love the new attitude Bobby C. brought to ownership and I love the Wayne Krivsky can wheel and deal, but giving Narron a license to make this team mediocre is simply criminal.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the love. Are we so hungry to be 4 over .500 that we ignore all of this?

I'm with you 110%. Jerry is just not that good of an on-field, in-game tactician and he gives too much value to 'perceived qualities' that cannot be quantified when filling out a line-up card or making a pitching decision.

The clearest example--but far FAR from the only--in my mind is the earlier series versus the Royals. Jerry Narron was out-managed by Buddy Bell at every turn.