Playing the game "the right way'

[Ltlabner]

Bare with me....

There have been many speculations about various players work ethics. Dunn was railed when we was struggling earlier this year. But then we heard reports of him spending extra time in the batting cage, working on just making contact, not focusing on blasting every hit, etc etc. He continues to start nearly every game.

EE has really struggled with throws from 3B this year. In ORG Matt700wlw posted that there is an article somewhere that says Narron complemented EE as a hard working 3B, and has been spending lots of time with Bucky Dent working on his short commings. There's still a question of whether EE will get back to regular starts over RA, but like I said, bare with me.

Team Clark and others have made posts that AK is very tallented, and he's been projected to be a solid player some day. Yet there have been whispers around AK that he really doesn't give it his all, work his tail off, etc. His work ethic is lacking. Those are all rumers and suposition but that isn't the point of this post. The point is he is gone, and that the team thinks Deno, even in his first real year could be an improvement.

Lopez has also had some whispers about his "work ethic" from time to time (but not to the same degree as AK). In the article where Narron praises EE, he apparently says that Lopez will be good if he puts the work into it. Could this be why EE is here and Lopez is not?

Rick White leaves town and issues a parting shot saying he was "used wrong" it was the teams fault he failed, etc. Yet David Weathers, who has been miserable, is still here.

Maybe this is why Hatteburg continues to start (mostly) at 1B inspite of the "common sense" approach of moving Dunn over. Then you have both guys out there giving it their all.

I know we all sigh when Narron says "plays the game the RIGHT way" in his southern drawl. While I totally disagree with the likes of Clayton and Castro being lynchpins of the team, maybe Narron's point isn't the perfection of performance, more so than that he want's players to give it their all on the playing field.

While there will be a short term knock to overal output (ie. runs scored) perhaps they are betting that fielding a team of guys who play their hearts out will make up for this over time. Again, factor out Clayton and Castro for a bit. I don't know....just some thoughts.

[flyer85]

"Playing the game the right way" is simply a nice way of saying "there isn't any objective data that supports this player having their current role".

[redsmetz]

Bare with me....

No, no. That would not be a pretty sight. I will "bear with you" though. :)

[Ltlabner]

"Playing the game the right way" is simply a nice way of saying "there isn't any objective data that supports this player having their current role".

Yes, on the shallow surface that is what it means, and we all know that.

My post was touching on something deeper. Maybe something that is addressing issues that go in the the clubhouse or behind closed doors. Maybe it's even something that goes on in Narron's brain that he doesn't even realize.

[pedro]

"Playing the game the right way" is simply a nice way of saying "there isn't any objective data that supports this player having their current role".


I agree that the term is over and mis-used but I still think having a good baseball IQ is important although excessive talent can often make up for lack thereof. What I do object to is the idea that it is not important at all.

[redsmetz]

"Playing the game the right way" is simply a nice way of saying "there isn't any objective data that supports this player having their current role".

That would be the typical cynical view of some RedZoners, but I think there is much to be said for having a team that plays in sync, that knows how to do the small things and yet will receive the fruits of those big things (homers, etc.). How many games are lost by the little things. Not playing in the right position, no paying attention to what your pitcher is throwing, not knowing the inclinations of the hitter that is up and so on.

I think people love to hate on Jerry Narron around here, but I think he's getting a good amount out of his players that others weren't getting previously.

[crazybob60]

If that is the case, then isn't Sean Casey a prime example of this? Barring the money factor?

[osuceltic]

I agree that the term is over and mis-used but I still think having a good baseball IQ is important although excessive talent can often make up for lack thereof. What I do object to is the idea that it is not important at all.
Agreed. Playing hard, smart baseball contributes to winning baseball. Sure you need talent. No one is arguing you don't. But talent alone isn't enough either. That's true in any sport.

Running out ground balls, advancing runners, taking the extra base, breaking up a double play, getting a bunt down, hitting a cutoff man, getting a sure out instead of taking a bad risk, stealing a key base ... these are things that contribute to winning games and they're examples of what I consider playing the game the right way. Ideally you'd have a team full of guys with great talent who play the game this way (think Derek Jeter). But those guys are hard to find. Since no team has great talent at every position, it's important to have guys playing the game the "right way" filling in the gaps. They help win games even though they're just average talents. Aurilia certainly qualifies, as does Hatteberg. I'm hoping Denorfia can be that kind of player. Freel is.

For all the "scrappy" cracks around here, there is something to this concept.

[flyer85]

I agree that the term is over and mis-used but I still think having a good baseball IQ is important although excessive talent can often make up for lack thereof. What I do object to is the idea that it is not important at all.Nothing wrong with having some subjective reasons for having guys around, the problem starts when those guys start finding their way on the field on an everyday basis.

I'll take talent over scrappy everyday and twice on Sunday. Scrappy only goes so far. I guess what the Reds really need are talented players who "play the game the right way".

[Ltlabner]

Nothing wrong with having some subjective reasons for having guys around, the problem starts when those guys start finding their way on the field on an everyday basis.

I agree and I mentioned that in my post so that we could move beyond that to the deeper issue. We all know that Castro/Clayton are not the key's to the future so let's ignore that for a minute.

[lollipopcurve]

Freel is.

I disagree a bit on this one. I think Freel brings some nice skills (OBP, base stealing, some range in the OF), but I don't think he's a great decision maker out there. He takes some bad risks on the base paths and in the OF, I think. His strength is also his weakness -- he gets overaggressive and it costs the team from time to time. Still, a very good player to fill in around the core talent, as you say.

[dabvu2498]

For all the "scrappy" cracks around here, there is something to this concept.
Good post...

Based on what the composition of this roster has been this season, there are many paths that could have been travelled... both veteran and young.

We could have, conceivably, had lineups filled with Q, Tony Womack, Aurilia, Griffey, Hatteberg, Terrance Long, Matt Kata, and some other scrap heap material ALL THE TIME... and some would have really liked the "scrappy veteran quotient."

We could also have had lineups filled with EE, Olmedo, Denorfia, Votto(???), etc. etc. ALL THE TIME... and some would have liked the "new blood, high-ceiling talent, rebuilding quotient."

This season we've had something somewhere in the middle. And if you look at the composition of the teams that have made the playoffs over the past few years, that seems to be important.

Would the 05 Astros have been successful without Ausmus, Everett or their other "scrappy vets?" Would they have been successful without Tavares, Chris Burke or their other "new blood" types? Their team (and most other successful teams) are composed with some sort of a mixture.

Oddly enough, I like the composition of this team with its current mixture of youth and veterans.

[KronoRed]

"Playing the game the right way" is simply a nice way of saying "there isn't any objective data that supports this player having their current role".
I agree, I'd love someone to ask Narron what exactly does playing the game the right way mean, I'm sure he's got a few more slogans for his scrappy guys ;)

[flyer85]

Would the 05 Astros have been successful without Ausmus, Everett or their other "scrappy vets?" most likely they were successful in spite of those guys. Interesting that even though Everett may be the best defensive SS in baseball he has been finding more bench time because of his inability to hit. WHat has been killing the Stros this season is Taveres(.623), Everrett(.622) and Ausmus(.602) and their complete lack of offense. Of course Lane and Wilson have been killing them as well.

At least in the Stros case these guys are really top quality defensive players unlike the Reds black holes(Clayton/Castro).

[dabvu2498]

At least in the Stros case these guys are really top quality defensive players unlike the Reds black holes(Clayton/Castro).
Good call... at the 3 most important defensive positions, ironically enough.

[ochre]

...and he's been projected to be a solid player some day...

You lost me right there. I generally consider above average offense and defense solid play. The biggest problem Kearns seems to face is that everyone associated with the Reds expects him to be better than Dunn. I mean that's what we were all told, right?

[flyer85]

Good call... at the 3 most important defensive positions, ironically enough.and still that good defense will only carry you so far. The best answer is simply to have a balanced team and realize that there are tradeoffs that can be help in both directions.

The problem I currently have is that Clayton was only a very marginal improvement in the defense and a large downgrade in the offense. Clearly a poor tradeoff.

[ochre]

Would the 05 Astros have been successful without Ausmus, Everett or their other "scrappy vets?" Would they have been successful without Tavares, Chris Burke or their other "new blood" types? Their team (and most other successful teams) are composed with some sort of a mixture.

bad choice of examples :)

The stros were chillin' with the Reds until the scrappy Lance Berkman made it back into the lineup. :)

[Falls City Beer]

The biggest problem Kearns seems to face is that everyone associated with the Reds expects him to be better than Dunn. I mean that's what we were all told, right?

I imagine most of said "everyone" would appreciate a full season of ABs at the MLB level; and then sweat the details later....

[ochre]

I imagine most of said "everyone" would appreciate a full season of ABs at the MLB level; and then sweat the details later....
Sure. If a tubby pitcher falls in the forest and noone's there for him to land on does Kearns still suck?

[Puffy]

and still that good defense will only carry you so far. The best answer is simply to have a balanced team and realize that there are tradeoffs that can be help in both directions.



Thats the quote, right there. Balance and trade-offs.

[Falls City Beer]

Sure. If a tubby pitcher falls in the forest and noone's there for him to land on does Kearns still suck?

As long as that "Nintendo thumb" heals up nicely. :)

[Ltlabner]

"Playing the game the right way" is simply a nice way of saying "there isn't any objective data that supports this player having their current role".

....it appears that Narron consideres Dunn, EE, Philips, Ross and Deno as "playing the game the right way". Does that mean that there isn't any objective data that supports them playing their positions?

[Ltlabner]

By the way, before I could mute the TV I heard Geroge Grande refer to Deno as "scrappy". ;)

[OldRightHander]

Bare with me....

I don't know you well enough for that. Besides, my wife might object.

[col4life]

"Playing the game the right way" is simply a nice way of saying "there isn't any objective data that supports this player having their current role".

What if a player "having their current role" adds to team chemistry or helps other guys perform better in their respective roles? A lot of you guys never stop to consider that guys that give it their all out there on the field or guys that play the game the "right way" might be valuable to a team in a way that their individual statistics can't measure.

[OldRightHander]

I think playing the game the right way involves the use of a glove, a bat, and proper baseball attire.