Commissioner for a day

[gitrdunn44]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/06/09/commissioner/index.html

Interesting article.

5. Start World Series games no later than 7:30 p.m. Eastern Time, with Saturday games starting at 6 p.m.: A whole generation of kids have grown up never having seen Mariano Rivera pitch in October; he usually does so around midnight. :laugh:

[oneupper]

1. Eliminate the DH...

[KronoRed]

1. Eliminate the DH...
Agreed.

[Unassisted]

I'd change the locks, so Bud's keys would no longer work. ;)

[jimbo]

No more interleague games.

[Hoosier Red]

Everybody brings up the games ending at midnight, but really what time does the Super Bowl end? The NBA Finals don't even start until 9PM.
Why does baseball take a beating for problems that are present everywhere in sports.

[RBA]

My list..

1. Let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame.

[redsfan4445]

1. Eliminate the DH...


1) eliminate the DH for AL (only DH used for both leauges in All-Star Game)I would keep the DH for All-Star Games.. dumb watching pitchers hit with lots of offense on the bench..
2) Also never have 2 play-off games from different divisions/leagues playing at the same time.. that was dumb the last time that happened!!!
3) NO Playoff/WS game would start after 7:15PM EST!!
4) Fans would vote for the top 5 HomeRun Derby hitters from each League, from a list of 20 from each league
5) Pete Rose goes back on the HOF ballet for voting in the HOF. (a meeting with owners and GM's to determine if he is also allowed back in baseball at any level that is voted on).
6) When voting for players for the HOF, ONLY Broadcasters and members of the HOF are allowed to vote.
7) Draft picks are allowed to be traded, to help the baseball draft to be as popular as the NFL draft!
8) NO BLACK OUTS of any game on MLB TV. Just charge a $49 a year per MLB TV package to help revenue to be split with all teams evenly.
9) For the All-Star game, Fans vote for the position players to start, but the players and coaches vote the rest of the reserves and pitchers,2 days after the starters are announced. NOTE# Any player that refuses to go to the game, is left off the ballot the next season and forfiets any contract money that was promised as a bonus.
10) Promote a MLB NASCAR race.. right before the race, the top 32 drivers pull a team name out of the hat and that driver represents the MLB team he has picked.. the winner will have a replica NASCAR car made in that MLB teams colors and a replica minature car given to fans on a certain night where that driver will be at that teams game to be honored. (hey NASCAR is popular and what a way to share merchandise revenue. :)

[BEETTLEBUG]

My list..

1. Let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame.


I agree with you RBA

[Cyclone792]

My list..

1. Let Pete Rose into the Hall of Fame.

Right, because letting gamblers and players who bet on ballgames into the Hall of Fame is exactly the right precedent to set.

I'm assuming #1B is letting Hal Chase into the Hall of Fame too.

[RBA]

Right, because letting gamblers and players who bet on ballgames into the Hall of Fame is exactly the right precedent to set.

I'm assuming #1B is letting Hal Chase into the Hall of Fame too.

Hal Chase was caught red handed throwing games. Has Pete Rose done that? I don't think so.

Lots of bad characters in the Hall of Fame. There will be steriord homerun kings in there soon too.

Pete has served a long enought suspension/ban to make any player/manager think twice about betting on baseball again.

Oh, and there are some gamblers in the Hall already. Some even worked for casinos.

And finally, MLB even has advertisement for 'gasp' casinos in their ball parks now.

[Cyclone792]

Hal Chase was caught red handed throwing games. Has Pete Rose done that? I don't think so.

Lots of bad characters in the Hall of Fame. There will be steriord homerun kings in there soon too.

Pete has served a long enought suspension/ban to make any player/manager think twice about betting on baseball again.

Oh, and there are some gamblers in the Hall already. Some even worked for casinos.

And finally, MLB even has advertisement for 'gasp' casinos in their ball parks now.

Pete Rose bet on baseball, and that's a fact. The penalty for betting on baseball is a lifetime ban, and Pete's serving it.

If you're equating steroids to betting on baseball, you're a million miles off base. If you're equating "bad characters" to betting on baseball, again, you're a million miles off base. Baseball is not society, and baseball does not necessarily govern itself by society's rules. Gambling in baseball is the ultimate taboo, and if you commit that crime, you're rightfully gone from the game forever.

If we put Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame, then we might as well put Arnold Rothstein in too as a baseball pioneer.

It's a darn good thing baseball's early fathers didn't take your stance, because if they did, the game today as we know it would not exist. It likely would have been corrupted and destroyed by gamblers long ago.

[RBA]

You equated Pete Rose with a player who threw games. You're the one off by a million, not me.

Thank you.

[Cyclone792]

You equated Pete Rose with a player who threw games. You're the one off by a million, not me.

Thank you.

Pete Rose bet on baseball.

That's a fact.

Care to disagree?

[oneupper]

This is a Deja Vu thread all over again...

[RBA]

You got to lot to learn about the addiction of gambling. Fixing games and throwing games is not the same as category as betting on the team you are on to win. Sorry, you are a million millions off with your comparisons.

[jimbo]

If you're equating steroids to betting on baseball, you're a million miles off base.

I don't agree. Steroids is just the detriment to the game as betting on it is. My guess is that there have been thousands more games whose outcomes were effected by the use of steroids than gambling.

[RBA]

Pete Rose bet on baseball.

That's a fact.

Care to disagree?


And? what's your point?

Fixing games is not the same as placing a bet on your team to win.

Care to disagree?

[Cyclone792]

You got to lot to learn about the addiction of gambling. Fixing games and throwing games is not the same as category as betting on the team you are on to win. Sorry, you are a million millions off with your comparisons.

I could give two rats about the addiction of gambling.

Throwing games is an offense with a punishment of a lifetime ban. Those caught were rightfully banned for life.

Betting on baseball is an offense with a punishment of a lifetime ban. Those caught were rightfully banned for life.

Again, the question remains, do you disagree that Pete Rose bet on baseball?

[Highlifeman21]

I don't agree. Steroids is just the detriment to the game as betting on it is. My guess is that there have been thousands more games whose outcomes were effected by the use of steroids than gambling.

I would love to take that bet.

To say steroids have impacted more ballgames than gambling just seems so ignorant to me.

Surely they've both had impact, but it just seems so common sensical that gambling's had more to sway games than the needle.

Gambling on the game is far worse than steroids can ever dream to be.

[RBA]

Why would I disagree he bet on baseball? You aren't making much sense frankly. Nobody has said he did not bet on baseball.

[Cyclone792]

Why would I disagree he bet on baseball? You aren't making much sense frankly. Nobody has said he did not bet on baseball.

He bet on baseball. He broke a rule that carries the rightful punishment of a lifetime ban. He's rightfully banned for life.

That's as far as it goes, and quite frankly, that's where it ends.

[RBA]

I would love to take that bet.

To say steroids have impacted more ballgames than gambling just seems so ignorant to me.

Surely they've both had impact, but it just seems so common sensical that gambling's had more to sway games than the needle.

Gambling on the game is far worse than steroids can ever dream to be.

I can't say I agree with that.

I am for a lifetime ban on players that have used steriods and I'm for banning them from the Hall of Fame. There records will always be tainted.

[jimbo]

I would love to take that bet.

To say steroids have impacted more ballgames than gambling just seems so ignorant to me.

Surely they've both had impact, but it just seems so common sensical that gambling's had more to sway games than the needle.

Gambling on the game is far worse than steroids can ever dream to be.

How many home runs hit by juiced players have determined the outcomes of games over the years? A few of baseball's most treasured records are now in question. IMO, every game those players hit home runs in are now tainted. How many of those games would have had different outcomes if certain players weren't juiced? Doesn't seem "ignorant" to me at all.

[RBA]

He bet on baseball. He broke a rule that carries the rightful punishment of a lifetime ban. He's rightfully banned for life.

That's as far as it goes, and quite frankly, that's where it ends.

No it doesn't. You see my post is about "if I'm Commissioner for a day"

And you can't change my decision. Even if you did, Pete would be in there on my day. So I say :mooner: .:laugh: :D

[Cyclone792]

This is a Deja Vu thread all over again...

Eh, I'm not so sure, at least this time around.

The vast majority of Pete Rose debates I've seen in the past seem to center around whether or not he actually committed the crimes that he was accused of (and now has admitted to). Actually, since he's admitted to those crimes, the Pete Rose debate has died a quick death, at least in my observations.

I'm just blown away by people who believe that steroids are worse than betting on baseball.

I'm also blown away by people who believe that players who bet on baseball should still be allowed in the Hall of Fame.

Gambling in baseball would destroy the game of baseball. Putting a player in the Hall of Fame who bet on baseball is the equivalent of saying it's ok for that player to carry out actions that partake in destroying the game.

[Cyclone792]

No it doesn't. You see my post is about "if I'm Commissioner for a day"

And you can't change my decision. Even if you did, Pete would be in there on my day. So I say :mooner: .:laugh: :D

And if you were Commissioner for a day, then you would be committing the most detrimental act to the game of baseball in its entire history.

And it would only take you a day to do so. That's quite an accomplishment.

[Highlifeman21]

I can't say I agree with that.

I am for a lifetime ban on players that have used steriods and I'm for banning them from the Hall of Fame. There records will always be tainted.

So let's take Ken Caminiti's MVP away from him post mortem. Raffy Palmeiro wasn't a HOF to begin with, but if he's ever on the ballot, let's put him on the excluded list b/c he tested positive. There is no definitive way to ban players unless they've tested positive without a shadow of a doubt, but then again there's no precedent to ban someone guilty of taking steroids. Sure, we have rules now against positive tests, but all the "tainted records" were done so when steroids were essentially legal. Care to go down this slippery slope?


How many home runs hit by juiced players have determined the outcomes of games over the years? A few of baseball's most treasured records are now in question. IMO, every game those players hit home runs in are now tainted. How many of those games would have had different outcomes if certain players weren't juiced? Doesn't seem "ignorant" to me at all.

We're back to measuring juicing vs. gambling, which in my opinion and the opinion of others is a no brainer. Gambling is far worse for the game than steroids. Lemme repeat that. GAMBLING IS FAR WORSE FOR THE GAME THAN STEROIDS. Got it?

Take into perspective when steroids were completely legal in the game. Now tell me how many of those HR were truly "tainted". As for baseball's treasured records, you're looking at Bonds maybe contending for Aaron's record next year. What other records are in questions thanks to the needle? To say that juiced players have vastly changed the outcomes of games more so than gambling again is ignorant and short sided. Juiced players have not, will not, and never will impact games more so than gambling players will impact games.

[RBA]

And if you were Commissioner for a day, then you would be committing the most detrimental act to the game of baseball in its entire history.

And it would only take you a day to do so. That's quite an accomplishment.



Answer this?

Should Steriod users be allowed in the Hall?

Yes are no?

[Cyclone792]

Answer this?

Should Steriod users be allowed in the Hall?

Yes are no?

Strawman argument. We're not talking about steroids.

We're talking about gamblers in the Hall of Fame and whether or not gambling is the ultimate crime in baseball.

[jimbo]

I'm just blown away by people who believe that steroids are worse than betting on baseball.


I'm blown away by people who believe that steroids isn't just as bad as betting on it. One is no worse than the other. Players and managers who bet on the game use their decision making skills to effect the outcome of a game while steroid users use artificial means.

[RBA]

Strawman argument. We're not talking about steroids.

We're talking about gamblers in the Hall of Fame and whether or not gambling is the ultimate crime in baseball.

No, I was talking about Pete Rose (Gambling on Baseball) and you were bringing every 2 bit fixer and thrower of the games as a comparison to him. Weren't you?

Is fixing a game the same as gambling on a game?

[RBA]

I'm blown away by people who believe that steroids isn't just as bad as betting on it. One is no worse than the other. Players and managers who bet on the game use their decision making skills to effect the outcome of a game while steroid users use artificial means.


Silly, that's because steriod weren't a ban substance in baseball. So any edge a player can get should be legal. Even thou steroids are illegal in the United States. (note sarcsasm) :evil:

[jimbo]

GAMBLING IS FAR WORSE FOR THE GAME THAN STEROIDS. Got it?


Wow, thanks for the enlightenment. I guess that settles it.

This board is built on discussion and opinion, no need to start yelling and being condescending to those who have opposite opinions of yourself, because the fact is it is just your opinion.

[Cyclone792]

No, I was talking about Pete Rose (Gambling on Baseball) and you were bringing every 2 bit fixer and thrower of the games as a comparison to him. Weren't you?

Is fixing a game the same as gambling on a game?

Let's go back to the beginning.

Players who fix games are rightfully banned for life.

Players who bet on games are rightfully banned for life.

I don't care which offense you commit; if you fix a game, you deserve to be banned for life. If you bet on a game, you deserve to be banned for life. Hal Chase fixed games, and he's rightfully banned for life. Pete Rose bet on games, and he's rightfully banned for life.

Like I said, if Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame, then we might as well put Arnold Rothstein in as a pioneer. He's the guy who introduced fixing games and betting on games on a grand scale. What a hero for the game of baseball that Mr. Rothstein was. He was such a pioneer for the game of baseball that Pete Rose followed suit in some of his actions by betting on the game himself.

[RBA]

Wow, thanks for the enlightenment. I guess that settles it.

This board is built on discussion and opinion, no need to start yelling and being condescending to those who have opposite opinions of yourself, because the fact is it is just your opinion.

It seems like we hit a nerve with the "Steriods" hmm.

[Highlifeman21]

I'm blown away by people who believe that steroids isn't just as bad as betting on it. One is no worse than the other. Players and managers who bet on the game use their decision making skills to effect the outcome of a game while steroid users use artificial means.

Apples vs. oranges.

Betting on the game is an integrity issue. Betting, fixing, what have you are all in the same boat and are the worst possible offense against the game. Easily punishable by lifetime ban, and that almost seems like getting off light...

Steroids has nothing to do with integrity, and everything to do with competitive advantage. To say that one is no worse than the other is missing the point completely. You juice to gain an advantage. You bet, and or fix to give yourself some sort of financial gain while destroying the integrity of the game, and everything pure about it. While juicing, you're just enhancing your body, which is just a way to seperate yourself from other players. No two players are 100% equal. Two players can take the same legal supplement, but they could easily have different outcomes. Steroids does nothing to harm the integrity of the game. Betting on/fixing games destroys and eats at everything that is pure about the game. Allowing that to continue would ruin the game most of us love.

[RBA]

Let's go back to the beginning.

Players who fix games are rightfully banned for life.

Players who bet on games are rightfully banned for life.

I don't care which offense you commit; if you fix a game, you deserve to be banned for life. If you bet on a game, you deserve to be banned for life. Hal Chase fixed games, and he's rightfully banned for life. Pete Rose bet on games, and he's rightfully banned for life.

Like I said, if Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame, then we might as well put Arnold Rothstein in as a pioneer. He's the guy who introduced fixing games and betting on games on a grand scale. What a hero for the game of baseball that Mr. Rothstein was. He was such a pioneer for the game of baseball that Pete Rose followed suit in some of his actions by betting on the game himself.

I answered your question, but you refuse to answer mine. :laugh:

I say again Pete Rose did BET ON BASEBALL. He says he bet on his team to win.

Is that the same as fixing or throwing games? A simple "Yes" or "no" will suffice.

[RBA]

Apples vs. oranges.

Betting on the game is an integrity issue. Betting, fixing, what have you are all in the same boat and are the worst possible offense against the game. Easily punishable by lifetime ban, and that almost seems like getting off light...

Steroids has nothing to do with integrity, and everything to do with competitive advantage. .

LOL, can you even define integrity?

INTEGRITY: DOING THE RIGHT THING EVEN WHEN NO ONE ELSE IS LOOKING.

Now, pumping yourself with Steriods, is that doing the right thing?

NO, BUT HELL NO!

[Cyclone792]

I answered your question, but you refuse to answer mine. :laugh:

I say again Pete Rose did BET ON BASEBALL. He says he bet on his team to win.

Is that the same as fixing or throwing games? A simple "Yes" or "no" will suffice.

Ah, the whole but he bet to win argument.

The worst argument on gambling that I have ever heard.

I've answered your question over and over. Fixing/throwing games and betting on games carry the same exact penalty, and rightfully so.

Because you seem to believe that they should carry separate penalties does not excuse one behavior as being acceptable, but you sure are arguing for that. Otherwise you wouldn't be taking the stance that Pete Rose somehow belongs in the Hall of Fame.

If you were commissioner for a day, you would let a guy who bet on baseball into the Hall of Fame. It would set the worst precedent of any commissioner in the history of the game. And, like I said, it would take only a day for you to set that precedent.

[KronoRed]

This is a Deja Vu thread all over again...
Popcorn? http://lastperson.suncircle.org/Smileys/default/popcorn1.gif

[RBA]

Ah, the whole but he bet to win argument.

The worst argument on gambling that I have ever heard.

I've answered your question over and over. Fixing/throwing games and betting on games carry the same exact penalty, and rightfully so.

Because you seem to believe that they should carry separate penalties does not excuse one behavior as being acceptable, but you sure are arguing for that. Otherwise you wouldn't be taking the stance that Pete Rose somehow belongs in the Hall of Fame.

If you were commissioner for a day, you would let a guy who bet on baseball into the Hall of Fame. It would set the worst precedent of any commissioner in the history of the game. And, like I said, it would take only a day for you to set that precedent.

LOL, YES OR NO ANSWER. You can't answer it. I asked you a yes or no question.

One more time...

Is fixing or throwing a game the same as betting on baseball?

Just Yes or No will do. Please don't give another politician answer to a very simple question.

[jimbo]

You bet, and or fix to give yourself some sort of financial gain while destroying the integrity of the game, and everything pure about it. While juicing, you're just enhancing your body, which is just a way to seperate yourself from other players.

You don't think that enhancing your body is a means to give yourself a financial gain? That's what drives these player to do just that.....money, along with ego. The player isn't the only one gaining an advantage, it is also a gain for the team that player is playing for. You may be seperating yourself from other players, but you are also having an artificial effect on every game you play in.

[Cyclone792]

LOL, YES OR NO ANSWER. You can't answer it. I asked you a yes or no question.

One more time...

Is fixing or throwing a game the same as betting on baseball?

Just Yes or No will do. Please don't give another politician answer to a very simple question.

Take a look at the baseball rulebook to find your answer. My answer parallels that answer.

In fact, I'd love for you to copy that exact rule down. Word for word.

[RBA]

I'm going to bed. I'll let others answer for me if they wish to do so. I don't think I can bear to much more of this grandstanding. Espesially for a person that flat out refuses to answer a Yes or NO question.

[Cyclone792]

I'm going to bed. I'll let others answer for me if they wish to do so. I don't think I can bear to much more of this grandstanding. Espesially for a person that flat out refuses to answer a Yes or NO question.

Keep playing the strawman game, RBA.

Here's the rule for you that you're apparently failing to understand:



Rule 21
MISCONDUCT

(a) MISCONDUCT IN PLAYING BASEBALL. Any player or person connected with a
club who shall promise or agree to lose, or to attempt to lose, or to fail
to give his best efforts towards the winning of any baseball game with
which he is or may be in any way concerned; or who shall intentionally
fail to give his best efforts towards the winning of any such baseball
game, or who shall solicit or attempt to induce any player or person
connected with a club to lose, or attempt to lose, or to fail to give his
best efforts towards the winning of any baseball game with which such
other player or person is or may be in any way connected; or who, being
solicited by any person, shall fail to inform his Major League President
and the Commissioner.

(b) GIFT FOR DEFEATING COMPETING CLUB. Any player or person connected
with a club who shall offer or give any gift or reward to a player or
person connected with another club for services rendered or supposed to
be or to have been rendered in defeating or attempting to defeat a
competing club, and any player or person connected with a club who
shall solicit or accept from a player connected with another club any
gifts or reward for any such services rendered, or supposed to have
been rendered, or who having been offered any such gift or reward,
shall fail to inform his League President or the Commissioner
immediately of such offer, and of all facts and circumstances therewith,
shall be declared ineligible for not less than three (3) years.

(c) GIFTS TO UMPIRES Any player or person connected with a club, who
shall give, or offer to give, any gift or reward to an umpire for services
rendered, or supposed to be or to have been rendered, in defeating or
attempting to defeat a competing club, or for the umpire's decision on
anything connected with the playing of a baseball game; and any umpire
who shall render, or promise or agree to render, any such decision
otherwise than on its merits, or who shall solicit or accept such gifts
or reward, or having been solicited to render any such decision
otherwise than on its merits, shall fail to inform the League President
or the Commissioner immediately of such offer or solicitation, and all
facts and circumstances therewith, shall be declared permanently ineligible.

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

(e) VIOLENCE OR MISCONDUCT IN INTERLEAGUE GAMES. In case of any physical
attack or other violence upon an umpire by a player, or by an umpire upon
a player, or of other misconduct by an umpire or a player, during or in
connection with any interleague Major League game or any exhibition game
of a Major League Club with a club or team not a member of the same league,
the Commissioner shall impose upon the offender or offenders such fine,
suspension, ineligibility or other penalty, as the facts may warrant in
the judgement of the Commissioner.

(f) OTHER MISCONDUCT. Nothing herein contained shall be construed as
exclusively defining or otherwise limiting acts, transactions, practices
or conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and all
other acts, transactions, practices or conduct not to be in the best
interests of Baseball are prohibited and shall be subject to such
penalties, including permanent ineligibility, as the facts in the
particular case may warrant.

(g) RULE TO BE KEPT POSTED. A printed copy of this Rule shall be kept
posted in each clubhouse.

[919191]

If it were just for 1 day, I would change all the office furniture to futon, put all Devo on the music system, put grease on the earpiece of Bud's phone, and replace all his expensive whisky with Bonded and Lillard.

[redsfan4445]

Pete Rose bet on baseball.

That's a fact.

Care to disagree?


PETE did it AFTER his playing days!!..he deserves to be in the HOF for his playing days.. not what he did as a manager!!

[Caveman Techie]

I'm sorry, but I was all for Pete going into the HOF before he admitited to betting on baseball. Once he admitted to it though every argument with any smidgen of credibility went out the window.

For almost 20 years Pete said he didn't bet on baseball . Then came out and said "yeah I did".

Pete said he never bet on the Reds. Then came out and said "yeah I did".

Pete said he never bet on the Reds to lose. .......

I'm sorry but Pete has lost all credibility and I can't believe a word that he says anymore. And as such I as commissioner would have no choice but to enforce the rule that is in the book.

[bounty37h]

So let's take Ken Caminiti's MVP away from him post mortem. Raffy Palmeiro wasn't a HOF to begin with, but if he's ever on the ballot, let's put him on the excluded list b/c he tested positive. There is no definitive way to ban players unless they've tested positive without a shadow of a doubt, but then again there's no precedent to ban someone guilty of taking steroids. Sure, we have rules now against positive tests, but all the "tainted records" were done so when steroids were essentially legal. Care to go down this slippery slope?

Keep in mind htat time period you are talkin gabout, yes, there was no rule in baseball against steroids, btu there was FEDERAL LAW against using them. So, with your arguement, if a player murdered someone, he should stil lbe able to play ball,c ause there is no baseball rule against killing another. I know, exagerated comparison, but works for your arguement.

[Highlifeman21]

Keep in mind htat time period you are talkin gabout, yes, there was no rule in baseball against steroids, btu there was FEDERAL LAW against using them. So, with your arguement, if a player murdered someone, he should stil lbe able to play ball,c ause there is no baseball rule against killing another. I know, exagerated comparison, but works for your arguement.


Murder and steroids aren't even remotely the same thing, but I'll play your little game.

By your argument, if a ball player murders someone and hasn't broken a baseball rule, then by definition, they should be able to still play ball. Let them play all they want. Too bad that if they go thru the whole trial thing, and if found guilty, I'm pretty sure a little thing called prison would get in the way of playing ball, unless it's for some Correctional League.

By the same definition, when there were no steroid rules in baseball, players definitely were breaking societal laws, but weren't breaking baseball rules/law, so let them play. Now if the judicial process got involved with the steroid issue, then the using players might have had to take a little vacation at Club Fed.

Baseball players should be held to the same societal rules/laws/standards as the rest of us, and if they break something on that laundry list, they should pay the price. If baseball players violate/break/infringe upon any baseball rules/laws, then the ball player should be subject to a punishment from which ever body governs the transgression.

Saavy?

[seligstinks]

No, No, No, players who bet on (NOT against) their own team certainly should NOT be banned forever from the game. Betting to win ISN'T the same as betting to lose, and any rule or any fool that says it is should be gotten rid of post haste.