Get Redman

[dunner13]

It seems like we need to add another starter if we are going to make the playoffs. Most of them are either way to expensive and probably not going to be traded (Zito, Willis) or are just junk. So it seems like Mark Redman would be the best fit for us. He has done great for the royals so far this year, move him to a contender and put him in the NL and i think he does even better. Plus Im betting he would come fairly cheap. Send a couple of prospects. I mean if they will take someone like larue then great, but i doubt they will. Redman would give us three solid starters, with arroyo, harang. Im not sure what krivsky is going to do but I hope he does something without giving up to much of the future.

[captainmorgan07]

i think it's a great idea jump on him before bigger clubs can slip the royals a deal

[RedsManRick]

Mark Redman in 2006

95 IP
5.02 ERA
1.41 WHIP
41 Ks
35 BBs

This is not "Great". In fact, this is not "Good". This is "Borderline". He's a step DOWN from Elizardo Ramirez. Redman is right there with Brandon Claussen in terms of quality and we'll be getting Claussen back soon. This would make little sense.

[Johnny Footstool]

Mark Redman in 2006

95 IP
5.02 ERA
1.41 WHIP
41 Ks
35 BBs

This is not "Great". In fact, this is not "Good". This is "Borderline". He's a step DOWN from Elizardo Ramirez. Redman is right there with Brandon Claussen in terms of quality and we'll be getting Claussen back soon. This would make little sense.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, I think Krivsky has a man-crush on ex-Twins, so Redman is probably his next target. I said so back when he acquired Guardado.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Better than Claussen, Milton, and Mays.

[Jpup]

His ERA would probably come down in the NL as well. I'm not to high on the guy, but he's "better than what we got."

[Red Leader]

Mark Redman over the last month:

2-1, 33.0 IP, 7 BB, 17 K, 3.27 ERA.

He is a better option than Mays and Milton. Could be a better option than Claussen depending on how Claussen throws when he returns.

[Krusty]

What about the Phillies' Cory Lidle or Jon Lieber for the stretch run?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statistics/Team/playerstats?team=phi&pagetype=pitching&seasonYear=2006

[RedsManRick]

I still see a complete inability to miss bats, average control, and an average GB/FB ratio. Is he a better #5 starter than Joe Mays? Yes. Milton and Claussen, maybe. If we are going to trade for somebody, the object should be to improve the team. Lateral moves which cost us prospects are not intelligent.

Eric Milton in May:
20.2 IP (3 QS), 3.48 ERA, .235 OAVG, 12 K, 3 BB

One decent month does not a good pitcher make.

If Redman was on our squad, I certainly put him in the rotation. But I would not give up anything of value to acquire him.

[Jpup]

I still see a complete inability to miss bats, average control, and an average GB/FB ratio. Is he a better #5 starter than Joe Mays? Yes. Milton and Claussen, maybe. If we are going to trade for somebody, the object should be to improve the team. Lateral moves which cost us prospects are not intelligent.

wouldn't getting rid of Mays and picking up Redman improve the team?

[Red Leader]

wouldn't getting rid of Mays and picking up Redman improve the team?

Still depends on who you'd have to give up to get Redman.

If it's minor league fluff, then yes, it would improve the team.

If it's a legit prospect, then no, IMO, it would not "improve the team".

[M2]

I'm starting to take a "why the hell not" approach to suggestions like this.

No, I don't really like the idea of handing the ball to Mark Redman. I'm not wild about Paul Byrd either. Kris Benson or Jamie Moyer? Theoretically not on your life. I'm not all that keen about calling up Homer Bailey either.

Yet there the Reds are in the wild card spot despite every rational reason for them not to be. So why the hell not? Just try not to botch things for future seasons in the process.

[RedsManRick]

wouldn't getting rid of Mays and picking up Redman improve the team?

Yes, so would cutting Mays and letting Belisle start -- or cutting Mays and getting Claussen off the DL. Neither of those costs us prospects. A VERY marginal upgrade* at the back end of the rotation is not worth losing system depth for. If we can trade two nobody's who have a 1% chance of ever seeing a big league roster, then sure, why not?

However, if you honestly think that he can be had for that, given the number of other teams seeking pitching help, I think you're crazy. There's a reason it cost us Kearns and Lopez to get who we got with the Nats. Pitching is extremely expensive to come by in a mid-season trade.


*Let's pretend that Redman could give us 12 starts and went 6 innings per on average (his current average). That's 72 IP. Let's also assume he gives us an ERA of 4.50. That's 36 earned runs. Now let's assume if we don't trade for him we get an ERA of 6.00 from those 72 IP (an approximation of Joe Mays and our bullpen). That's 48 earned runs, a difference of 12 runs.

Currently we are on pace to score 813 runs and allow 834 runs, for an expected record of 79-83. If we subtract 12 runs from our runs allowed total, that expected record changes to 80-82. Woohoo!! We won 1 more game. BEST CASE SCENARIO has Redman giving us 1 more win.

Now, I'm not one too completely disregard the value of a win. However, when the best case scenario is a single win, I start considering who that win costs us.

[registerthis]

I still see a complete inability to miss bats, average control, and an average GB/FB ratio. Is he a better #5 starter than Joe Mays? Yes. Milton and Claussen, maybe. If we are going to trade for somebody, the object should be to improve the team. Lateral moves which cost us prospects are not intelligent.

Your second sentence and your last are contradictory. If he displaces Joe Mays, and perhaps pitches better than Claussen and/or Milton, then the team *has* been improved. If he doesn't cost much to obtain, and if the cost for other, more palateable pitchers is excessive, then the pickup of a Redman-type pitcher may very well be what the Reds are looking at. And, it most certainly wouldn't be a "lateral move"--it would be an improvement, as you state in your post.

[registerthis]

Yes, so would cutting Mays and letting Belisle start -- or cutting Mays and getting Claussen off the DL. Neither of those costs us prospects. A VERY marginal upgrade upgrade at the back end of the rotation is not worth losing system depth for.

i'd feel more comfortable using Redman as the fifth starter than Belisle.

[HotCorner]

Tony Armas Jr anyone?

[Red Leader]

I'm starting to take a "why the hell not" approach to suggestions like this.

No, I don't really like the idea of handing the ball to Mark Redman. I'm not wild about Paul Byrd either. Kris Benson or Jamie Moyer? Theoretically not on your life. I'm not all that keen about calling up Homer Bailey either.

Yet there the Reds are in the wild card spot despite every rational reason for them not to be. So why the hell not? Just try not to botch things for future seasons in the process.

Scary isn't it? I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'm torn on both sides. I'd like to see the Reds pick up someone to get Joe Mays out of the rotation and give them more chances to win a game every 5 days, but I don't want them to give up anyone valuable to get that pitcher. I know my perfect little scenario isn't likely, and knowing Krivsky, he's more likely to make a major splash, IMO, than more of a lateral move like this would be. That, in itself, scares me somewhat. Above all else though, it feels good being a known buyer at the deadline, instead of a team pegged as a seller since well before the All-Star break. There is still a side of me that thinks that we could bring in a lot of good prospects if we were sellers this year, though. I'm a schizo and it's Krivsky's fault. :laugh:

[flyer85]

Tony Armas Jr anyone?We shoudl be able to get him for EE and Dunn.

[RedsManRick]

Your second sentence and your last are contradictory. If he displaces Joe Mays, and perhaps pitches better than Claussen and/or Milton, then the team *has* been improved. If he doesn't cost much to obtain, and if the cost for other, more palateable pitchers is excessive, then the pickup of a Redman-type pitcher may very well be what the Reds are looking at. And, it most certainly wouldn't be a "lateral move"--it would be an improvement, as you state in your post.

The team only improves IF he pitches better than our current options. If he pitches better than Harang, then he'll put us in the playoffs. It all comes down to the IF. Give the performance histories of everybody involved, I have little reason to believe that he WILL be any better. Like you say, if the cost is very little, sure, why not acquire him? But we have every (Kearns) reason (Lopez) to believe the cost will not be minimal and even if he pitches up to his ability, the actual impact is likely less than you think. (see my other post).

I don't think anybody would turn down essentially free talent. However, if Redman was available at a very low cost, he'd be a Yankee, Cardinal, or otherwise by now.

[boognish]

Unfortunately, the better he pitches, the more desirable he becomes, the higher the price tag...

The worse he pitches, the less use the Reds have for him, the less fans want him, the less he costs.

The trend of mediocre pitchers' price in July. Unless the Reds can somehow get good innings out of an acquisition of the ilk they already possess, they will have to overpay for outside help of any quality. Sadly, there are likely a lot of teams who feel Mark Redman can help them, and if he pitches well in his next start, the price is only driven up.

[Johnny Footstool]

Dave Williams was also supposed to be "better than what we have."

[boognish]

Dave Williams was also supposed to be "better than what we have."

Testify!

[KronoRed]

Dave Williams was also supposed to be "better than what we have."
Well he was better then what we had a few years ago..Anderson..Haynes..Hamilton

If Redman is cheap why not? anything but Mays

[zombie-a-go-go]

Well he was better then what we had a few years ago..Anderson..Haynes..Hamilton


Speak not the name of Hamilton, O foolish one, lest ye draw his attention.

*shudder*

[KronoRed]

It's ok..I walked outside spit and spun around 3 times..that should keep the curse away ;)

[Heath]

It's ok..I walked outside spit and spun around 3 times..that should keep the curse away ;)

burn a virgin at stake. That'll do it :D

[Heath]

Speak not the name of Hamilton, O foolish one, lest ye draw his attention.

*shudder*


For the non-King James Versioned folks of the Gospel of The Reds - here's a translation.

Don't use the word Hamilton, you idiot, he might resurface.

[Red Leader]

burn a virgin at stake. That'll do it :D

Krono-don't burn yourself. It's not worth it. :evil:

[KronoRed]

burn a virgin at stake. That'll do it :D

Don't have one handy..RL will have to do :evil:

[Red Leader]

Don't have one handy..RL will have to do :evil:

hey, I have 2 kids. I've done it twice! :beerme:

[Heath]

hey, I have 2 kids. I've done it twice! :beerme:

yeah, but the Russian adoption agency can be bought off for $25 :D

joke! joke!

[Gandalf the Red]

For the non-King James Versioned folks of the Gospel of The Reds - here's a translation.

Don't use the word Hamilton, you idiot, he might resurface.



Hamilton?
The language is that of Mordor, which we shall not utter here.

[Red Leader]

yeah, but the Russian adoption agency can be bought off for $25 :D

joke! joke!

You will find my response if you go to your User CP and look under "Latest Reputation Received." It might stand out from the others in that section. Then again, maybe it won't. :evil: :laugh:

[KronoRed]

Smite eh?

Pirate like

[Red Leader]

Smite eh?

Pirate like


Aaarrrrr, matey. :D

[registerthis]

But we have every (Kearns) reason (Lopez) to believe the cost will not be minimal and even if he pitches up to his ability, the actual impact is likely less than you think.

I don't disagree there, as if my thoughts on that dud of a deal weren't well known enough...I'm talking A-ball pitchers here.

[Heath]

You will find my response if you go to your User CP and look under "Latest Reputation Received." It might stand out from the others in that section. Then again, maybe it won't. :evil: :laugh:

That's one of the nicest things anyone's ever said about me on my rep. :D :cry:

:D

[RedsMan3203]

LaRue and Aurilia for Redman.

[Jpup]

LaRue and Aurilia for Redman.

Why would the Royals need a scrappy guy like Aurilia? I think Buddy Bell likes LaRue, but Dayton Moore is probably a pretty smart fellow, I think the Royals will pass until a better offer is made.:D

[schroomytunes]

I think we could land Redman, and he could be a very useful guy in the 5th starter spot. I think if we offered KC a deal like this it would make sense for both sides.

Reds Trade: William Bergolla and Matt Belisle

Royals Trade: Redman

[Jpup]

I think we could land Redman, and he could be a very useful guy in the 5th starter spot. I think if we offered KC a deal like this it would make sense for both sides.

Reds Trade: William Bergolla and Matt Belisle

Royals Trade: Redman

That would make sense, but Belisle is hurt.

[KronoRed]

LaRue and Aurilia for Redman.
Old Royals GM maybe..not the new guy