7/30/06 - Reds vs Brewers Game Thread

[Reds Fanatic]

Starting Lineups:


Reds (55 - 49)
2nd in NL Central
Brewers (49 - 55)
3rd in NL Central

Starting Lineup

Name AVG HR RBI SB
1. R Freel, RF .306 7 21 23
2. A Dunn, LF .260 31 71 5
3. K Griffey Jr., CF .240 20 56 0
4. R Aurilia, 3B .282 13 40 1
5. S Hatteberg, 1B .326 9 34 0
6. B Phillips, 2B .291 8 49 18
7. J Castro, SS .311 2 6 0
8. J LaRue, C .197 5 17 1
9. A Harang, P .178 0 2 0

Starting Lineup

Name AVG HR RBI SB
1. B Clark, CF .292 2 21 2
2. T Graffanino, 2B .231 0 0 0
3. P Fielder, 1B .290 19 54 5
4. K Mench, LF .250 0 1 0
5. G Jenkins, RF .259 9 53 4
6. D Bell, 3B .333 0 0 0
7. B Hall, SS .272 24 58 5
8. M Rivera, C .300 2 5 0
9. B Sheets, P .111 0 0 0

Starting Pitcher
Name W L ERA* WHIP K
A Harang 11 6 3.52 1.26 135

Starting Pitcher
Name W L ERA* WHIP K
B Sheets 1 3 5.27 1.24 33

[CTA513]

Any reason why Damian Miller isnt catching for the second day in a row for the Brewers?
He is also hitting .417 off Harang (5 for 12)

:devil:

[redsfan30]

I'm a bit surprised Junior is in the lineup today.

[oneupper]

That lineup screams "shut me out"...

[reds44]

lol

[TheBigLebowski]

Good: Freel LO, Dunn 2nd, Hatte 5th, no Clayton
Bad: LaRue over Ross, Aurilia over EE

[redsfan30]

That lineup screams "shut me out"...
This is basically the same lineup that's been used for the past month.

Why does this one inparticular look worse than any of the others?

By the way, they're something like 10-5 using the same lineup that today says "shut me out."

[TheBigLebowski]

ATL already down 3-0 in the first.

One more crushing loss today, and the Braves may decide to sell.

[Falls City Beer]

Fielder and Hall not hitting back to back? Sweet. Gotta say, the ole Brew Crew's lineup is pretty weak too. No excuses if Aaron can't keep that lineup at bay for 7 innings.

[Matt700wlw]

By the way, they're something like 10-5 using the same lineup that today says "shut me out."

Could be because of the pitcher they're facing... :)

[Joseph]

Aside from the obvious need for EE to be in there more than he's not, and the problems at SS, this is about the best option we can run out there as a team at the moment.

[Matt700wlw]

poor Edwin

[Big Klu]

Fielder and Hall not hitting back to back? Sweet. Gotta say, the ole Brew Crew's lineup is pretty weak too. No excuses if Aaron can't keep that lineup at bay for 7 innings.

Evidently, Ned Yost is infatuated with his new toys (Tony Graffanino, Kevin Mench and David Bell), and therefore has bumped Bill Hall all the way down to 7th.

There is absolutely no reason why Bill Hall should bat lower than David Bell! So thanks, Ned!

[TheBigLebowski]

Ned Yost seems to have a similar fixation to Graffanino as our guy has to RA.

[Eric_Davis]

Griffey is the weakest link.

He's holding this team back from taking over first place in the Central.

He's hitting .212 against lefthanders this year.

He's getting worse....he's hitting .175 in July.

He's the worst starter in the lineup taking up the most important batting spot.

What's worse....he won't volunteer to do anything about it.

[Matt700wlw]

What's worse....he won't volunteer to do anything about it.

They haven't asked

[traderumor]

Jr. is a big ole elephant in the room, has been for two years even when healthy, and no one on the Reds want to talk about it.

[Strikes Out Looking]

ATL already down 3-0 in the first.

One more crushing loss today, and the Braves may decide to sell.

7-0 now. Is the Brave Buffet open?

[Gallen5862]

Who will be able to do the pbp today?

[Matt700wlw]

Who will be able to do the pbp today?

Marty, Steve, Chris, and Pic

:D

[WVRedsFan]

Griffey is the weakest link.

He's holding this team back from taking over first place in the Central.

How so? Explain please.


He's hitting .212 against lefthanders this year.

He's getting worse....he's hitting .175 in July.

Hmmm. Ever hear of the word slump? Every player goes through this. and the alternatives are Chris Denorfia who apparently can't hit ML pitching and Ryan Freel, who is playing in right today.


He's the worst starter in the lineup taking up the most important batting spot.

How so? I guess the 20 HR's and 50+ RBI's mean nothing? Oh, I get it. It's his fielding. Right? How many errors does he have this year? How many does Dunn have?



What's worse....he won't volunteer to do anything about it.

You know that? And if I'm not mistaken, the manager makes these decisions, just like the decision to play Rich Aurilia everyday.

Gallagher lives.

[Gallen5862]

Marty, Steve, Chris, and Pic

:D
Thats a good one Matt. :) Have you heard if the Reds ever named who they got from the Marlins for Cody Ross?

[PuffyPig]

Any reason why Damian Miller isnt catching for the second day in a row for the Brewers?
He is also hitting .417 off Harang (5 for 12)

:devil:

Dunn says:wave:

(Dunn rung his bell).

[Matt700wlw]

Thats a good one Matt. :) Have you heard if the Reds ever named who they got from the Marlins for Cody Ross?

I have no idea....I either missed it, or nobody ever told me.

[Reds Fanatic]

Who will be able to do the pbp today?
I can do it.

[GAC]

Chat is open! :beerme:

[Gallen5862]

Thanks Reds Fanatic.

[Matt700wlw]

Yet again, a game at Miller Park starts late...


(how Marty of me :D)

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel flies out to the warning track in right on the 1st pitch.

[Matt700wlw]

Ben Sheets would look good in Red...

[GAC]

Dunn Ks

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[GAC]

Ben Sheets would look good in Red...

Our DL doesn't have any more room. ;)

[Matt700wlw]

What was that? 9 pitches for 3 outs?

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior flies out to left. An 8 pitch inning for Sheets. 0-0 mid 1st.

[redsfan30]

Junior's starting to come around. He's hardly the "weak link."

[Reds1]

Ned Yost seems to have a similar fixation to Graffanino as our guy has to RA.


RA has produced. I don't understand why so negative. This team has been winning with him in the line up.

[Matt700wlw]

"You are the Weakest Link. Goodbye."

[Falls City Beer]

Just the Reds' luck: Sheets is dinged up all year, but we get him on what is probably one of his few healthy starts this season.

[Matt700wlw]

That pitch didn't quite work out...

[reds44]

RA has produced. I don't understand why so negative. This team has been winning with him in the line up.
Not as much as when Edwin is in the lineup.

[Reds Fanatic]

Clark lines a double to right center on the 1st pitch.

[GAC]

I think Yost does a far worse job with his lineup construction.

Bill Hall - a .900 OPS, 27 Hrs, 58 RBIs - batting 7th?

[Falls City Beer]

What's Aaron's pitch velocity look like today?

[WVRedsFan]

Sheets threw basically the same pitch to each batter. Freel popped out to right, Dunn and Griffey took it. It just might be a long day. I hope Harang's got his stuff today.

[redsfan30]

Prince Fielder sure does have his dad's body type doesn't he?

[Reds Fanatic]

Graffanino strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[WVRedsFan]

Somebody tell Brady Clark that Jim Bowden's in Washington and he should prove he's a major leaguer when they play them--not us.

The kid's on fire.

[Matt700wlw]

Somebody tell Brady Clark that Jim Bowden's in Washington and he should prove he's a major leaguer when they play them--not us.

The kid's on fire.

Jim Bowden is an idiot.

[Reds Fanatic]

Fielder walks. 1st and 2nd.

[Matt700wlw]

I will be so glad to never see the Brewers again in 2006

[Reds Fanatic]

Mench singles to left. Clark beats the throw home. 1-0 Brewers. 1st and 2nd.

[Falls City Beer]

Anybody get a look at Aaron's velocity?

[Matt700wlw]

Anybody get a look at Aaron's velocity?

I haven't seen a reading on TV...

It looks about normal, but I have no way of confirming that

[redsfan30]

Anybody get a look at Aaron's velocity?
The gun isn't showing up on FSN.

It looks to be his normal stuff.

[Gallen5862]

How hard is Harang being hit? Is the Series tied 9-9 this year with the Brewers?

[Reds Fanatic]

Jenkins flies out to center. 2 outs.

[Joseph]

I loathe the Brewers.

Just saying

[redsfan30]

That's big to limit the damage there. Two on with only one out and getting out of it with just one run scored is big.

[reds44]

Castro should start over Clayton any day of the week.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bell grounds into a 6-4 fielder's choice. 1-0 Brewers after 1.

[GAC]

RA leads off with a single

[Reds Fanatic]

Aurilia singles to left.

[Matt700wlw]

Sheets getting a big strikezone...

[Gallen5862]

Thanks for the pbp reds Fanatic.

[PuffyPig]

Pujols stratched from the starting lineup, with a hyper-extended elbow.

Berkman still out of the Astros lineup, groin problems.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hatteberg strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[GAC]

Good AB by Hat.

So far, Sheet's FB ain't there.

Averaging around 86 mph

BP dbls

RA to 3rd

[Matt700wlw]

Pujols stratched from the starting lineup, with a hyper-extended elbow.



I never want to see anybody get hurt, but this really doesn't upset me...

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips doubles down the left field line. 2nd and 3rd.

[Falls City Beer]

It would be a HUGE help if Phillips got hot again.

[flyer85]

good thing Castro is coming up

[Matt700wlw]

good thing Castro is coming up

Mr. Clutch :D

[PuffyPig]

Castros AB may have made history.

[GAC]

Geez Castro! Two terrible swings!

Where's Clayton? :p:

[Reds Fanatic]

Castro loses his bat and strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[flyer85]

somebody get Juan an ironing board

[Matt700wlw]

Sheets walks his 2nd batter in 29 innings....

:eek:

[Reds Fanatic]

Intentional walk to Larue.

[Gallen5862]

The Reds need to score here.

[WVRedsFan]

Geez Castro! Two terrible swings!

Where's Clayton? :p:

Anyone want to debat this lineup's weakest link?:eek:

[reds44]

As bad of a year as Felipe was having, he still is twice the offensive player as Clayton and Castro.

[CrackerJack]

Another blown scoring opp.

[Reds Fanatic]

Harang strikes out swinging. 4 Ks for Sheets. 1-0 Brewers mid 2nd.

[reds44]

When oh when will we put BP at SS and RA at 2B with EE at 3B?

The lineup would be so much better.

[flyer85]

The Reds need to score here.
:laugh:

defense is way more important

[Mutaman]

As bad of a year as Felipe was having, he still is twice the offensive player as Clayton and Castro.

I guess that why the Reds were so successful with him in the lineup.

[GAC]

As bad of a year as Felipe was having, he still is twice the offensive player as Clayton and Castro.

Whose arguing otherwise?

[reds44]

Whose arguing otherwise?
Nobody.

I just felt like saying that.

[flyer85]

Another blown scoring opp.with Castro/Larue/Harang coming up it wasn't much of an opportunity

[VR]

Another blown scoring opp.

4 straight failures to score the man from 3rd w/ 2 outs over the last couple?

[CTA513]

To bad the ball Phillips hit didnt go all the way to the left field wall.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hall singles to right.

[WVRedsFan]

Another blown scoring opp.

The result of ever playing Castro at anything other than a late-inning defensive replacement. After Phillips' double, Castro needed to come through because inevitably they were not going to pitch to Larue with Harang on deck. If the little sisters of the poor are pitching, Castro can look like Babe Ruth. Against a pitcher like Sheets, as you could see, he simply doesn't have a clue.

We really need a shortstop or, like Reds44 says, we need to move Phillips there. Don't hold your breath. Everyone loves Castro.

[Doc. Scott]

Graffanino's been playing all the time because Weeks was just DL'ed.

[dsmith421]

Does "playing the game the right way" include an inability to come within 18 inches of a pitch with a runner at third and one out?

Or do those sorts of situations only impugn the character of guys under 35?

[Matt700wlw]

Does "playing the game the right way" include an inability to come within 18 inches of a pitch with a runner at third and one out?




Striking out looking would be unproductive ;)

[GAC]

Graffanino's been playing all the time because Weeks was just DL'ed.

Out for the season. Tore the sheathing that surrounds the wrist tendon, needs surgery.

[Caveat Emperor]

Another blown scoring opp.

Hard to get mad about the pitcher making the 3rd out of the inning. If anything, it was just bad luck that Phillips' double hit the wall and didn't go to the wall letting Aurillia score.

[GAC]

Striking out looking would be unproductive ;)

Not on those pitches. They were no where near the plate. :p:

[WVRedsFan]

Does "playing the game the right way" include an inability to come within 18 inches of a pitch with a runner at third and one out?

Or do those sorts of situations only impugn the character of guys under 35?

:clap:

[Reds Fanatic]

Rivera strikes out swinging. 2 Ks for Harang. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Sheets strikes out on a foul bunt attempt. 3 Ks for Harang. 2 outs.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice play, Castro

[GAC]

nice barehanded D by Castro to end the inning

[reds44]

what a play Juan!

[Reds Fanatic]

Clark grounds out to short. Great play by Castro. 1-0 Brewers after 2.

[Doc. Scott]

Cubs up 2-0 on St. Louis in their pursuit of ten wins in thirteen games against the Cards.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Anyone who doesn't think Juan Castro plays great defense is just not getting it. The guy can make plays. I appreciate his defense.

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel flies out to center. 1 out.

[Doc. Scott]

Anyone who doesn't think Juan Castro plays great defense is just not getting it. The guy can make plays. I appreciate his defense.

Well, I'll allow that he's done about as well as he could have since the Reds picked him up.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn strikes out swinging. 5 Ks for Sheets. 2 outs.

[Doc. Scott]

31 1st-inning pitches for Chris Carpenter.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior strikes out looking. 6 Ks for Sheets. 1-0 Brewers mid 3rd.

[Matt700wlw]

I'm not sure about that strike 3 call...

[flyer85]

Once Sheets gets two strikes its all over. Both basehits were on the first strike(and neither was hit hard, just well placed)

[Falls City Beer]

Man, Sheets is just killing them. Got to score on him, guys. You don't want to get into a battle of the bullpens with the Brews.

[NJReds]

Sheets has everything working today. It seems that their best hope today is that he gets tired early.

[flyer85]

The guy can make plays. ... within his limited range. There is a reason the Twins didn't want him on their team.

[Caveat Emperor]

Ben Sheets gets a big old "Yawn" from me.

Yeah, he's got fantastic stuff, but he can't stay helathy enough to help his team. If Sheets was healthy to start the year, it might be a different story in the NL Central.

I've got zero interest in pitchers like Sheets, Prior, Wood, et. al. that look good enough to make you think "what if" while reality falls apart around you.

[flyer85]

Man, Sheets is just killing them. Got to score on him, guys. You don't want to get into a battle of the bullpens with the Brews.Thats why yesterdays game was so important. The matchup today didn't favor the Reds.

[VR]

I'm not sure about that strike 3 call...

Tivo reveals that Rivera was calling for the pitch outside, perhaps a back door slider. He caught the ball 8 inches inside, however, making it an actual strike an impossibility, except against Reds hitters recently. :(

[Reds Fanatic]

Graffanino flies out to right. 1 out.

[Falls City Beer]

Ben Sheets gets a big old "Yawn" from me.

Yeah, he's got fantastic stuff, but he can't stay helathy enough to help his team. If Sheets was healthy to start the year, it might be a different story in the NL Central.

I've got zero interest in pitchers like Sheets, Prior, Wood, et. al. that look good enough to make you think "what if" while reality falls apart around you.

Maybe so. But the "real thing" is carving this club up right now. And the Brewers have a bullpen.

[GAC]

... within his limited range. There is a reason the Twins didn't want him on their team.

It wasn't because of his defense. ;)

[WVRedsFan]

Just saw where the Reds brought up Brandon Watson for Germano, so a trade is not likely to be on the table.

Looks like we are playing with the cards we have.

[Falls City Beer]

Thats why yesterdays game was so important. The matchup today didn't favor the Reds.

I think just the opposite. Germano vs. Davis, a guy who kills the Reds.

[Caveat Emperor]

Maybe so. But the "real thing" is carving this club up right now. And the Brewers have a bullpen.

It hurts us, but it certaintly doesn't help them. I'm sure every Reds fan is, to a man, aware of just how "fun" it is to play spoiler instead of actually competing for things.

[Reds Fanatic]

Fielder strikes out swinging. 4 Ks for Harang. 2 outs.

[Cedric]

What is up with the umpires and the Reds this series? We've had tremendous bad luck on called strikes.

[Reds Fanatic]

Mench singles to left.

[Falls City Beer]

Yeah, I'd say the Brew Crew won that Texas trade.

[VR]

And the Brewers have a bullpen.

Technically, yes. Statistically, I think 29th out of 30 is not good.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wild pitch moves the runner to 2nd.

[Falls City Beer]

Arrgh. I hope Aaron's not spitting the bit here.

[flyer85]

It wasn't because of his defense. ;)actually is was a part. The Twins were last in baseball in Defensive Efficiency and having a SS with limited range wasn't helping anything.

[Unassisted]

Wonder if Ned Yost is regretting his choice not to have Mench pinch-hit in the 9th on Friday night?

[Reds Fanatic]

Jenkins walks on 4 pitches. 1st and 2nd.

[NJReds]

Hang a star on that Castro to Phillips play. Wow.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bell grounds into a 6-4 fielder's choice. Nice play by Castro and Phillips. 1-0 Brewers after 3.

[Ltlabner]

You guys are right, that Castro is horrible ;)

[RollyInRaleigh]

Another great play on a tough ball by Castro.

[Jpup]

say what you want about Castro and his range, but the guy can pick it.

[PuffyPig]

Man, Sheets is just killing them. Got to score on him, guys. You don't want to get into a battle of the bullpens with the Brews.

Well, considering that the Brewers have the majors leagues worst ERA for a bullpen, and, while they have obtained Cordero, they have lost Cappelan, a battle of the bullpen sure beats Sheets.

[vaticanplum]

Ben Sheets gets a big old "Yawn" from me.

Yeah, he's got fantastic stuff, but he can't stay helathy enough to help his team. If Sheets was healthy to start the year, it might be a different story in the NL Central.

I've got zero interest in pitchers like Sheets, Prior, Wood, et. al. that look good enough to make you think "what if" while reality falls apart around you.

i agree. Talented as heck, but overrated and likely due for a short career.

[Jpup]

The Cubs lead the Cards 2-0, bottom of the 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Aurilia pops out to 2nd on the 1st pitch. 1 out.

[RollyInRaleigh]

The Castro comments get old when the guy continually has made plays for this team. Looks to me like he is giving them what they pay him for.

[Falls City Beer]

Well, considering that the Brewers have the majors leagues worst ERA for a bullpen, and, while they have obtained Cordero, they have lost Cappelan, a battle of the bullpen sure beats Sheets.

Except for Turnbow, the Brewers bully carves up the Reds.

[flyer85]

Reds are starting to look very ... offensive

[Reds Fanatic]

Hatteberg flies out to center. 2 outs.

[PuffyPig]

Cedeno homers off of Carpenter.

Carpenter must be hurt?

[Falls City Beer]

I think it's fair to say that Sheets is absolutely murderizing the Reds today.

[flyer85]

say what you want about Castro and his range, but the guy can pick it.nobody has ever disputed the "golden hands" tag.

[Jpup]

Make it 3-0 Cubs leading the Cards. Cedeno just hit a HR to left.

bottom 2nd

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips can't check his swing and strikes out. 7 Ks for Sheets. 1-0 Brewers mid 4th.

[Big Klu]

AFLAC Trivia Question: Who is the last Red to have 10+ Complete Games?


My answer is Danny Jackson.

[CTA513]

8 pitch inning.

Sheets should be able to go 9 scoreless innings unless he gives the Reds a meatball to hit.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hou up 2-1 on ARI in the 4th. SF and PIT still scoreless in the 7th. NYM leads ATL 9-6 in the 5th.

[GAC]

actually is was a part. The Twins were last in baseball in Defensive Efficiency and having a SS with limited range wasn't helping anything.

But how many games did Castro play at SS for the Twins this year? I thought Punto got a vast majority of the starts at SS?

[WVRedsFan]

The Castro comments get old when the guy continually has made plays for this team. Looks to me like he is giving them what they pay him for.

Range or not, the guy can pick and rarely makes a bad throw, but as a hitter, he's not great. Somewhere there's a shortstop/infielder who can hit and make the plays. The Reds need to find him someday. After Cardenas, Concepcion, and Larkin, we're probably spoiled a little.

[flyer85]

8 pitch inning.

Sheets should be able to go 9 innings unless he gives the Reds a meatball to hit.their certainly isn't much in this lineup to frighten him.

[Falls City Beer]

I'd take Sheets. Even if it meant they'd only get Halley's Comet-scheduled starts from him, what a pleasure it would be to watch a performance like this from your starter. This is disgusting what he's doing to the Reds.

[Mutaman]

nobody has ever disputed the "golden hands" tag.

Thats simply not true. Over the years, in the spirit of "Let's jump on the bandwagon and complain about Castro, there hyave been numerous posters here who have staed that he is overrated defensivly.

[Hollcat]

AFLAC Trivia Question: Who is the last Red to have 10+ Complete Games?


My answer is Danny Jackson.

I know it's not Encarnacion so my answer is Rich Aurilia:D

[PuffyPig]

Except for Turnbow, the Brewers bully carves up the Reds.

Well, if Kolb is carving us up with his 7.11 ERA, I'm liking what he's serving.

Anyway, a very,very bad bullpen doesn't become good vs. one of the leagues best offences simply because of small sample sizes.

[flyer85]

Range or notrange is probably the most important factor in being a good SS.


but as a hitter, he's not great. thats an undestatement.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Range or not, the guy can pick and rarely makes a bad throw, but as a hitter, he's not great. Somewhere there's a shortstop/infielder who can hit and make the plays. The Reds need to find him someday. After Cardenas, Concepcion, and Larkin, we're probably spoiled a little.

I've never proposed that Castro be the everyday shortstop, but he certainly can bring some defense and a big hit now and then to this team.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hall strikes out swinging. 5 Ks for Harang.

[Matt700wlw]

Someone was asking about Harang's velocity...

he just hit 93

[Jpup]

4 Cubs
0 Cards

bottom 2nd 2 on 1 out

[Jpup]

Pic and Welsh are talking about golf, they should be let go.;)

[Caveat Emperor]

I'd take Sheets. Even if it meant they'd only get Halley's Comet-scheduled starts from him, what a pleasure it would be to watch a performance like this from your starter. This is disgusting what he's doing to the Reds.

I take Harang 100 times out of 100 over Sheets.

You pay all that money for him, and he's not there when your team has a chance to make a move in the division. That's $9 million dollars for what? A chance to have some castoff from Triple-A coming up to take his spot.

Waste of time, waste of money. If you can't stay healthy in any sport, you're less than worthless, IMO. He looks fantastic now -- but where was he when his fantastic could've meant something?

[Reds Fanatic]

Rivera grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

[GAC]

I've never proposed that Castro be the everyday shortstop, but he certainly can bring some defense and a big hit now and then to this team.

Yep. And the defensive variables used to judge one's range are very unreliable (incomplete) and subjective.

[Jpup]

Cubs 5
Cards 0

Carpenter is getting lit up.

[Matt700wlw]

Cubs 5
Cards 0

Carpenter is getting lit up.

bummer


:beerme:

[Falls City Beer]

Well, if Kolb is carving us up with his 7.11 ERA, I'm liking what he's serving.

Anyway, a very,very bad bullpen doesn't become good vs. one of the leagues best offences simply because of small sample sizes.

I'm sure if you want to focus on one pitcher and then talk about small samples have at it.

Guys like Shouse, Wise, and Capellan have kicked the Reds' teeth down their throat.

[Ltlabner]

range is probably the most important factor in being a good SS.

Is range measured by one of those defensive metrics that everybody says is a waste of time and completley subjective ?

[Falls City Beer]

I take Harang 100 times out of 100 over Sheets.

You pay all that money for him, and he's not there when your team has a chance to make a move in the division. That's $9 million dollars for what? A chance to have some castoff from Triple-A coming up to take his spot.

Waste of time, waste of money. If you can't stay healthy in any sport, you're less than worthless, IMO. He looks fantastic now -- but where was he when his fantastic could've meant something?

I do too--over a full season. But in a small sample head to head matchup, I take Sheets without blinking.

[Reds Fanatic]

Sheets strikes out swinging. 6 Ks for Harang. 1-0 Brewers after 4.

[Cedric]

Cappelen is on the dl and we scored the winning run off Wise Friday night.

[flyer85]

Yep. And the defensive variables used to judge one's range are very unreliable (incomplete) and subjective.not necessarily. The key is understanding what they are telling you and what they are silent about.

[CTA513]

I'm sure if you want to focus on one pitcher and then talk about small samples have at it.

Guys like Shouse, Wise, and Capellan have kicked the Reds' teeth down their throat.

I think Capellan is on the DL.

[Falls City Beer]

Cappelen is on the dl

Damn that's good news. I didn't know that. That does help matters a lot.

[vaticanplum]

I don't want to hijack another thread with my random thought, but I've been a little out of the loop lately, so the decision that I've come to without knowing all the rumors that have been going on is that Krivsky needs to hang tight or pick up a low-cost bat right now and then go after Zito hard-core in the off-season.

I know it's a loooooong shot. But the way I figure, we need another GREAT starting pitcher, we're not going to get it now, and if we manage to pull that off we can build the team to be a terror next year.

We've got a little bit of money left over from the Kearns/Lopez trade. Let Castellini throw in some cash from his vegetable stand, and RedsZone takes up a collection to fly Arroyo out to California in November with his guitar, surfboard, and some extracurricular refreshment to sway Zito.

Seriously, this is the best idea I've had in at least a week. Let's get on it guys.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Casto's range is not a lot worse than a lot of guys that I see playing shortstop on a daily basis for a lot of major league teams. The guy makes all the plays that he can get to, and there is certainly something to be said for that. I don't dispute that there are elite type shortstops that have the range and make the routine play, but I haven't seen that on the Reds since a "younger" Barry Larkin. (His range was not the best the last few years he played, either, but he made all the plays he could get to and an occasional brilliant one)With stats being what they are these days, most of the time you should be able to put your shortstop in a position where range is not as big a deal. Heck, Cal Ripken made a pretty good career out of it. I hear, range, range, range but sometimes, I don't think it is as relevant as some make it and just use it to hammer a player they don't hold in high esteem.

[Caveat Emperor]

I do too--over a full season. But in a small sample head to head matchup, I take Sheets without blinking.

Sheets is what he is -- you get the fantastic stuff and high-K rate, but you also get the absolute uncertainty as to whether he's going to answer the bell in any given season.

You can't pick and choose a pitcher for just a few starts (unless you'e the Houston Astros).

[Reds Fanatic]

Cardinals apparently have a deal in place for Ronnie Belliard. He is just off the DL and if he looks healthy playing today the Cards are going to trade for him.

[Reds Fanatic]

Castro grounds out to short. 1 out.

[Big Klu]

Cardinals apparently have a deal in place for Rafael Belliard. He is just off the DL and if he looks healthy playing today the Cards are going to trade for him.

Rafael Belliard, or Ronnie Belliard?

[Falls City Beer]

Sheets is what he is -- you get the fantastic stuff and high-K rate, but you also get the absolute uncertainty as to whether he's going to answer the bell in any given season.

You can't pick and choose a pitcher for just a few starts (unless you'e the Houston Astros).

I agree. But this is now. And it's Harang vs. Sheets. And he's absolutely killing us.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rafael Belliard, or Ronnie Belliard?
Sorry Ronnie Belliard.

[flyer85]

Sheets is going to have no problem throwing a complete game, at least as far as the pitch count is concerned.

[Matt700wlw]

LaRue serves about as much purpose as this post.

[Reds Fanatic]

Larue strikes out looking.
Harang grounds out to short. 1-0 Brewers mid 5th.

[Falls City Beer]

Sheets is easily on pace for a CGSO.

Must be nice to get a top-5 pitcher at the deadline if you're a Brewers' fan.

[Cedric]

Oh god.

I can't wait to see Reds pitching pipe first pitch fastballs to someone like Belliard.

[Matt700wlw]

This certainly beats watching Doug Davis walk around for 10 minutes in between pitches.



If only the Reds were winning...

[George Foster]

Is Sheets on a pitch count today, since he is newly back form the DL? If he his he should not pitch past the 6th inning.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Reds have to keep this one real close. All it takes is a walk or bloop and a blast.

[MWM]

Carpenter getting rocked in Chicago today. He's given up 5 ER through 2 innings.

[PuffyPig]

I'm sure if you want to focus on one pitcher and then talk about small samples have at it.

Guys like Shouse, Wise, and Capellan have kicked the Reds' teeth down their throat.

Well, Capellan is injured.

Wise has pitched 3 innings, given up 1 run on 4 hits and 3 walks. That's kicking our teeth???

So, basically you are talking about Shouse who has done a good job neutralizing Dunn and Griffey (save for Griffey's HR against him).

[GAC]

Sheets is easily on pace for a CGSO.

Must be nice to get a top-5 pitcher at the deadline if you're a Brewers' fan.

If he holds up.

Wanna play the odds? ;)

They've also lost Lee, and their starting 2Bman and SS.

[flyer85]

Is Sheets on a pitch count today, since he is newly back form the DL? If he his he should not pitch past the 6th inning.he threw over 100 pitches ih his start last Tuesday.

[Ltlabner]

Carpenter getting rocked in Chicago today. He's given up 5 ER through 2 innings.


If they win today does that mean the Cubs just swept the Cards?

If so, there is just something wrong with the universe. The end of time may be apon us.

[Falls City Beer]

If he holds up.

Wanna play the odds? ;)

Absolutely. Unless Sheets pulls up lame, there is no way the Reds score on the pitches that he's throwing today. There's nothing you can do against them.

[George Foster]

Carpenter getting rocked in Chicago today. He's given up 5 ER through 2 innings.

Who would have thunk that the Cubs had a chance to sweep St. Louis?

[Reds Fanatic]

Clark singles to right.

[CTA513]

Sheets has thrown 56 pitches in 5 innings.

:help:

[KronoRed]

This lineup could be worse

Castro could be leading off ;)

[GAC]

Absolutely. Unless Sheets pulls up lame, there is no way the Reds score on the pitches that he's throwing today. There's nothing you can do against them.

I'm not referring to this game but the remainder of the season, and as far as his chances of helping the Brewers. ;)

[Caveat Emperor]

Absolutely. Unless Sheets pulls up lame, there is no way the Reds score on the pitches that he's throwing today. There's nothing you can do against them.

I've seen the Reds hit and score runs off better pitches than this. Even great pitchers miss their spots from time to time.

[Ltlabner]

Absolutely. Unless Sheets pulls up lame, there is no way the Reds score on the pitches that he's throwing today. There's nothing you can do against them.


That's the spirit!

[WVRedsFan]

Clark singles to right.

What else is new?

Pitch around or walk both he and Bill Hall and get it over with.

I am so %^$# glad that this is the last game against the Brewers. The pitiful bunch will likely go back to form after we leave. I hate them!

[vaticanplum]

If they win today does that mean the Cubs just swept the Cards?

If so, there is just something wrong with the universe. The end of time may be apon us.

They have killed the Cards for two seasons straight now. It's very weird. Pujols, in particular, cannot seem to figure out the Cubs pitching (and he's not even playing today).

On the other hand, the Cubs do have Zambrano on the mound today, so it's not completely bizarre. I do wonder if something's going on with Carpenter.

In other news, I'm back in Chicago for the weekend and caught some of the game yesterday, and I have unfortunately fallen very deeply in love with Anthony Reyes.

[George Foster]

Clark singles to right.

Boy Bowden missed the boat on Clark...

[Reds Fanatic]

Infield single for Graffanino. Great range by Castro to get to that ball. 1st and 2nd.

[Falls City Beer]

Harang unravelleth.

[Matt700wlw]

I've seen the Reds hit and score runs off better pitches than this. Even great hitters miss their spots from time to time.

They beat Roger Clemens earlier this week.....

[RollyInRaleigh]

The guy just has no range.

[Matt700wlw]

Boy Bowden missed the boat on Clark...

He missed the boat on a lot of things.

I think he lost the boat, actually.

[CTA513]

The guy just has no range.

:thumbup:

[flyer85]

I've seen the Reds hit and score runs off better pitches than this. Even great pitchers miss their spots from time to time.maybe because this isn't a particularly good offense against a RHP?

[Ltlabner]

The guy just has no range.


Just like a statue ain't he? ;)

[Falls City Beer]

I'm not referring to this game but the remainder of the season, and as far as his chances of helping the Brewers. ;)

If the Reds had to play the Brewers to determine their fate for the rest o fthe season, they'd, uh, lose. So I'm glad this might be it against them.

[flyer85]

The guy just has no range.you're right

[Reds Fanatic]

Fielder strikes out swinging. 7 Ks for Harang. 1 out.

[George Foster]

This is a pretty big innning For Harrang to state the obvious...

[RollyInRaleigh]

Just like a statue ain't he? ;)

Yep.:rolleyes:

[Matt700wlw]

If the Reds had to play the Brewers to determine their fate for the rest o fthe season, they'd, uh, lose. So I'm glad this might be it against them.

This IS it.....thankfully

[Falls City Beer]

This is a pretty big innning For Harrang to state the obvious...

This inning here is basically the game. If two more score, this ballgame's over.

[RollyInRaleigh]

you're right

And you aren't watching.

[Matt700wlw]

8Ks for Harang

[Reds Fanatic]

Mench strikes out looking. 8 Ks for Harang. 2 outs.

[GAC]

If the Reds had to play the Brewers to determine their fate for the rest o fthe season, they'd, uh, lose. So I'm glad this might be it against them.

we've won 3 of the 5 series we have played them this year FCB. ;)

[NJReds]

Nice "frame" by LaRue. Mench K's.

[Matt700wlw]

we've won 3 of the 5 series we have played them this year FCB. ;)

Doesn't seem like it :laugh:

[Matt700wlw]

:harang:

:clap:

[RollyInRaleigh]

Nice "frame" by LaRue. Mench K's.

Doesn't do that nearly enough, or very well most of the time.

[Falls City Beer]

Phew.

[Reds Fanatic]

Jenkins fouls out to 3rd. Nice job by Harang. 1-0 Brewers after 5.

[flyer85]

And you aren't watching.you are not perceiving what you see

[NJReds]

Harang unravelleth.

Wow. If that's unravelling, you're hard to impress.

[Caveat Emperor]

That was flat-out impressive by Harang.

This guy knows how to pitch. He had Mench set-up from the word go on that AB. He made the adjustment and Mench was left looking lost.

[GAC]

you are not perceiving what you see

Watching the results beats perceiving the results every time! ;)

[VR]

Harang unravelleth.


Unravelleth: Verb. Ancient word made up of the root unrave (dominate) and lleth (Brewers)

[RollyInRaleigh]

you are not perceiving what you see

:laugh: You are absolutely hilarious.

[Falls City Beer]

we've won 3 of the 5 series we have played them this year FCB. ;)

Series is tied at 9. Plus, the Brews have improved their pen AND starting rotation.

[DoogMinAmo]

The good news is the top of the order will have two more tries to score something off of Sheets.