Lineup Tonight Per Marc

[CySeymour]

Freel RF
Clayton SS
Griffey CF
Aurilia 1B
Encarnacion 3B
Phillips 2B
Denorfia LF
LaRue C
Harang P

Why would Narron not put Phillips or Deno second in the order instead of Clayton?

[Red Leader]

Freel RF
Clayton SS
Griffey CF
Aurilia 1B
Encarnacion 3B
Phillips 2B
Denorfia LF
LaRue C
Harang P

Why would you Narron not put Phillips or Deno second in the order instead of Clayton?

Well, because FeLo was the SS and he hit 2nd. Clayton replaced FeLo didn't he? :dunno: ;)

[CaiGuy]

Why would you Narron not put Phillips or Deno second in the order instead of Clayton?
because he can't create a lineup anymore than I can design a jet engine.

[reds44]

Oh my God.

I smell another shut out.

Clayton/Griffey is 2 automatic outs.

[RedsManRick]

Good to know that we finally face a pitcher we should beat and this is the crap we throw at him. Apparently playing Aurilia and EE in the same lineup means benching Dunn. Also always nice to see your slowest OF in CF...

[Matt700wlw]

Dunn out...

Honestly, a day off may do him some good. Griffey too, but you I don't think you can take them both out at the same time...

[REDREAD]

Just what we need to do to get out of a slump.. bench Dunn :rolleyes:

[Red Leader]

Well Dunn struck out 3 times last night. Better bench him before he really starts to go into a slump... ;)

[KronoRed]

Wow, from 1 player away from perfect last night to terrible today

Of course, they will score runs, and the lineup will be praised :lol:

[RedsFanInMD]

Dunn out...

Honestly, a day off may do him some good. Griffey too, but you I don't think you can take them both out at the same time...


I agree. As lost as Dunn has looked the last couple of nights, he could use a day off.

[wojo1025]

Honestly, what does Castro have to do to get in the lineup? Will Clayton have to fall over dead? And it's obvious David Ross is being penalized for hitting a HR and a double a few days ago. He got taken out of that game, and Javy/LaRue started the last two. Ross, you schmo, you know the way to move up in the lineup is to ground into the shift, strikeout, or make a ton of errors, idiot

[halmorris]

Where are Griffey and Dunn, is Narron waiting until the Ninth and the Reds are down 1-0 again to bring them on as pinch hitters? I know that Dunn has struggled lately, (9 strike outs last series) but I agree with Matt700wlw and you can't take them both out of the lineup....

[RichRed]

Originally Posted by BigKlu

Freel RF
Clayton SS
Griffey CF
Aurilia 1B
Encarnacion 3B
Phillips 2B
Denorfia LF
LaRue C
Harang P

Gaahh, my eyes! Quit kidding around, what's the real lineup?

[flyer85]

Endangered Species Sighting - the rarely seen Denorfia may be observed in its natural habitat.

[KronoRed]

Endangered Species Sighting - the rarely seen Denorfia may be observed in its natural habitat.
Is it still "his time"?

[CTA513]

Is it still "his time"?

Showing him off tonight for a possible trade.

;)

[flyer85]

Is it still "his time"?maybe if he gets 4 hits tonight. Recently his only chance of scoring would have to have been on the bar scene.

[westofyou]

Why would you Narron not put Phillips or Deno second in the order instead of Clayton? Because Jerry is from the 70's, bat control and astroturf, it's in his blood.

[flyer85]

Because Jerry is from the 70's, bat control and astroturf, it's in his blood.I was thinking more like tobacco juice and greenies :p:

[Heath]

Ugh.

Yuck.

I'll close my eyes and cross my fingers harder next time.

[flyer85]

I wouldn't be shocked if it's the lower half of the order that produces runs tonight.

[KronoRed]

No team in MLB is still using AstroTurf, everyone has gone to real stuff or the shag carpeting

Someone tell Jerry

[Stamford]

vs. Left 36 14 2 1 2 5 3 0 6 1 1 .389 .425 .667 1.092
vs. Right 129 29 5 1 9 19 13 2 23 1 0 .225 .303 .488 .792

James' splits per ESPN.com. Weird reverse splits (albeit really small samples sizes). Who is our lefty who is mashing lefties? You got it...Dunn. Who do we sit? Buehler...Buehler... Holy cow...Adam Dunn...go figure.

Aurilia in the clean-up spot against lefties doesn't bother me too much. He has raked against lefties this year. My big questions are:

1. If Clayton HAS to play (11th commandment?), why oh why in the 2-hole?
2. Even understanding that lefties have hit James well, why bench Dunn and not Griffey? Would have been nice having Denorfia (or Freel) in CF tonight defensively and Dunn has been MUCH better than Griffey against lefties this year.
3. Ross MASHES lefties. Why LaRue tonight? Inconceivable.

Feel free to add others...I feel sick. God forbid Aaron doesn't pitch a shutout tonight.

And I agree with one of the prior posters...God forbid x2 if all the stars align tonight and this lineup actually scores a bunch of runs through some sick joke. Jerry will be thinking he is some kind of genius when in reality he will just be the proverbial broken clock (correct two times per day).:bang:

[Ltlabner]

I tend to avoid the lineup carping sessions, but yikes. This one is particuarly foul.

I know some people are not sold on Ross, but I wish Jerry would just play him and we'll see if he can continue to hit the crap out of the ball. Quit worring about getting LaRue playing time.

[flyer85]

Ross OPS against LHP is 1.513

[Cedric]

The order isn't that important, but the players sure as hell are. What in the name of Jerry Narron is going on here?

Jerry was getting all kinds of credit early in the year for his luck with the lineup. Lately reality is setting in.

[westofyou]

Well kids, Ross did have what they thought was a hernia, he has spent the last week squatting in the extreme heat and did start 3 of the last 5 games. Why surprised that he's sitting?

Other than the OPS that is?

[TOBTTReds]

The order isn't that important

Understatement of the year. It is the order in which runs get produced. This order is pathetically organized.

Should be like this a bit:

1. High OBP, good speed (most teams like speed up there, Red Sox just take high OBP)
2. High OBP first, good slugging, good "handler"
3. High OBP and High Slugging (your best hitter I'd say)
4. Good Slugging, good OBP
5. Then from here on out, I'd so go with your best OPS guys.

All this is dabatible, but this is an "idea" of what it should be like. Royce and Griffey have very little business being where they are.

[StillFunkyB]

Well, because FeLo was the SS and he hit 2nd. Clayton replaced FeLo didn't he? :dunno: ;)

because EVERYONE knows you bat the SS second!

yeesh. :evil:

[redsmetz]

You know, if Jerry Narron sent Jesus Christ Himself up there to bat nine times, folks would whine about the line up. Maybe Bob C. ought to have fans vote each night. Didn't Ted Turner do that one night (or was that about making substitutions?)?

Oh well, what would Red Zone be without folks freaking out about the line-ups and Narron's moves?

[Stamford]

Lineup order isn't the MOST important thing by any means, but it IS important. Ask David Ortiz about batting order (having the protection of Manny behind him). Query why Adam started to hit after being moved to the 2-hole (you think it had something to do with the fact that Griffey was protecting him vs. Rich?).

Your point is taken -- I agree to some extent -- but I think you may be shortchanging it a bit...and Lord knows, we need all the help we can get to get out of this darn offensive funk.

[CySeymour]

Oh well, what would Red Zone be without folks freaking out about the line-ups and Narron's moves?

Actually, where would sports in general be without this. It's part of the fun, to second guess what the coach/manager does and to debate what should have been done.

[Stamford]

What's JC's OPS against lefties? ;)

[solo-baric]

jesus. it's going to be another horriable night!!! great can't wait!

[BuckWoody]

because EVERYONE knows you bat the SS second!

yeesh. :evil:
You guys are missing the obvious. Look at Clayton's jersey!

What's it say on the back?

#2.

duh.

:D

[redsmetz]

jesus. it's going to be another horriable night!!! great can't wait!

See I told you somebody be upset with Jesus Christ Himself coming to bat!

[Johnny Footstool]

The order isn't that important, but the players sure as hell are. What in the name of Jerry Narron is going on here?

Jerry was getting all kinds of credit early in the year for his luck with the lineup. Lately reality is setting in.

BigKlu posted an excellent article on lineup construction.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?&p=1102924#post1102924

[redsmetz]

What's JC's OPS against lefties? ;)

I'll have to consult Scriptures on that, but maybe we do have a prayer

http://www.stpatricksguild.com/prodimg/thumbnails/70_0_72137.jpg

Or would this help??

http://www.wwltv.com/sports/stories/M_IMAGE.ff6874ac29.93.88.fa.7c.25eff904.jpg

But that guy sold his soul to go over to the darkside - even lost the hair and beard.

[RichRed]

You guys are missing the obvious. Look at Clayton's jersey!

What's it say on the back?

#2.

duh.

:D

I thought that was just Clayton's way of telling us that we might as well make a bathroom trip when he's up to bat. :evil:

[registerthis]

No team in MLB is still using AstroTurf, everyone has gone to real stuff or the shag carpeting

Someone tell Jerry

The metrodome? isn't it still turf?

[BuckWoody]

See I told you somebody be upset with Jesus Christ Himself coming to bat!
Pedro Cerrano: Jesus, I like him very much, but he no help with curveball.
Eddie Harris: You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?

:)


If anyone caught the show on the Science Channel about the statistics of baseball, they had a segment about lineup construction that was very interesting. I think they had a lineup of 5 Babe Ruths and 4 Greg Maddoxs or some such. Then they garbled up the order randomly and projected the run production. There wasn't an appreciable difference in runs produced between any of the lineups.

Someone else who saw it can probably describe it a lot better than I just tried to.

[TeamBoone]

Honestly, what does Castro have to do to get in the lineup? Will Clayton have to fall over dead? And it's obvious David Ross is being penalized for hitting a HR and a double a few days ago. He got taken out of that game, and Javy/LaRue started the last two. Ross, you schmo, you know the way to move up in the lineup is to ground into the shift, strikeout, or make a ton of errors, idiot

No, it's not true. Javy started yesterday (Milton) because he's been somewhat successful againt Maddux and Ross got the two starts before (Arroyo/Ramirez). I can't remember any further back and am too lazy to look it up.

[dabvu2498]

The metrodome? isn't it still turf?
It's "shag," as is Toronto.

[TeamBoone]

I know some people are not sold on Ross, but I wish Jerry would just play him and we'll see if he can continue to hit the crap out of the ball. Quit worring about getting LaRue playing time.

LaRue plays very little... I think he stopped worrying about giving him playing time a while ago.

And Clayton's on base percentage is soooo good that it warrants batting second?

Good grief.

[Red Leader]

I thought that was just Clayton's way of telling us that we might as well make a bathroom trip when he's up to bat. :evil:


yeah, Clayton is definately #2. :laugh:

[wojo1025]

No, it's not true. Javy started yesterday (Milton) because he's been somewhat successful againt Maddux and Ross got the two starts before (Arroyo/Ramirez). I can't remember any further back and am too lazy to look it up.


In saying "last two" I was speaking of last night and tonight

[Always Red]

You know, I really do like Jerry, and want him to succeed and bring the Reds back to glory.

But, it's apparent to me that the man constructs a lineup and manages totally by feel and heart alone. I'm convinced that he does not know how to operate a computer, and furthermore, wouldn't even use the information if it were provided to him.

He's sitting the wrong lefty tonight (probably because it's not a day game) and I know we're probably stuck with Clayton for the rest of the year at SS, but for Pete's sake, hitting 2nd?? I know he can't hit 8th tonight, I mean LaRue is playing tonight after all.

Sheesh, now that I look it up, Clayton's OBP(.315) is below LaRue's(.330) even, believe it or not! 2nd??:bang:

If Jerry keeps this up, they're going to take back that extension. He's taking a long walk down that short pier.:confused:

[redlegs7089]

hatteberg and dunn our two best hitters on the bench.

Good job Narron!

[Elam]

It's amazing Narron keeps Griffey in the 3 hole and benches Dunn because of a lefty on the hill, absolutely amazing.

[Matt700wlw]

hatteberg and dunn our two best hitters on the bench.

Good job Narron!

Hatteberg sitting against lefties is nothing new...

[killuminati35]

If we score more than 2 runs tonight it will be a miracle.


Why is Larue getting so much PT?

[REDSEER]

hatteberg and dunn our two best hitters on the bench.

Good job Narron!
Yeah but who wouldn't want to see Dunn pinch hit in the ninth to try and tie the game or win it with a HR?

[redsupport]

reward clayton, the automatic out, why not bat him first

[TeamBoone]

Why is Larue getting so much PT?

You've got to be kidding! He gets hardly any!

The last time he started was July 30th (Sunday). He pinch hit on Aug 1. Before that he had a fair number of starts because Ross was on the DL.

[redlegs7089]

You've got to be kidding! He gets hardly any!

The last time he started was July 30th (Sunday). He pinch hit on Aug 1. Before that he had a fair number of starts because Ross was on the DL.

Thats way too much for Larue!!

[Always Red]

You know, I really do like Jerry, and want him to succeed and bring the Reds back to glory.

But, it's apparent to me that the man constructs a lineup and manages totally by feel and heart alone. I'm convinced that he does not know how to operate a computer, and furthermore, wouldn't even use the information if it were provided to him.

He's sitting the wrong lefty tonight (probably because it's not a day game) and I know we're probably stuck with Clayton for the rest of the year at SS, but for Pete's sake, hitting 2nd?? I know he can't hit 8th tonight, I mean LaRue is playing tonight after all.

Sheesh, now that I look it up, Clayton's OBP(.315) is below LaRue's(.330) even, believe it or not! 2nd??:bang:

If Jerry keeps this up, they're going to take back that extension. He's taking a long walk down that short pier.:confused:

Clayton? Clayton's on fire, man! 2 HR's in the last 3 games:D

Jerry, you keep on playing hunches and going with your heart!

AW doesn't know what he's talking about; Royce Clayton is carrying the Redlegs on his back right now. Keep it up, you steely-eyed vet ;)

[Jpup]

I think LaRue always starts when Harang is pitching, I don't know why the suprise.:confused:

[Ltlabner]

I've made it a point to avoid the "this line up" sucks threads that occur daily.

Yesterday I volated my rule because I felt that line up was shakey at best and posted that it was horrible and wondered where Ross was. It was a knee jerk post and I gave into the temptation and fired it off. I was amoungst many here who did so....There were multipule pages of "this is horrible", "I smell a shut out" and "Narron's an idiot" long before I left for GABP at 4:45pm.

Well, I volated my rule and the lineup proved me a fool. 5 runs. Not a shut out. Not a drubbing. Not a chain of 0's on the scoreboard.

Strangely enough, Thursday night's line up was proclaimed to be "near perfection" and "the best of the season". What did it produce? A shut out. A drubbing. A chain of 0's on the scoreboard.

Last night reminded me that complaining about the line up is mearly window dressing. It's an easy "problem" to see and comment on. Even the most uniformed and casual fan can see the line up and say, "Clayton is batting 2nd? This line up sucks".

I've been around the block enough times to know that most people woln't post that they were wrong about either night and will continue the "this lineup sucks" threads. Some will dismiss it as "every squirl finds and acorn" and "small sample size". Others will ignore it totally. That's their choice and I hope they continue to do what entertains them. As for me, I'm going to stick to my rule and focus on more pressing matters.

[Always Red]

I've been around the block enough times to know that people woln't post that they were wrong about either night
I did just that 2 posts above yours, Ltlabner.

Poking fun at myself points out that I was wrong, specifically about Clayton last night, and I admit it.:)

I'm happy to be wrong when the Reds win.;)

[fielder's choice]

I think LaRue always starts when Harang is pitching, I don't know why the suprise.:confused:

Exactly.