What to do with Griffey

[runfreelrun]

Here's the deal. We have an aging, slumping, slow running centerfielder doing nothing to cement his status as an everyday player. Why is Griffey immune to the constant juggling of the lineup. Why is Griffey, who plays so deep in center that Freel could run from home to first twice before Griffey reaches the infield not substituted in late innings for a better defensive player. Why is Griffey not sat down more then every once in awhile since he has done nothing offensively since the break. I know Griffey is Griffey, but remember when Larkin was Larkin? Does Jerry Narron take a plunge into the deep end and at least move Griffey down in the order so that bats like Hatteberg and Encarnacion get the chance to produce in the clutch or do we sit and watch as Griffey swings at pitches in the dirt and has bloop fly balls drop infront of him? Only time will tell, please Jerry make the right decision.

[Highlifeman21]

And the right decision would be to move Junior to LF or 1B, right?

[Tom Servo]

Roll him up in a carpet and throw him off a bridge.

[goreds2]

Here's the deal. We have an aging, slumping, slow running centerfielder doing nothing to cement his status as an everyday player. Why is Griffey immune to the constant juggling of the lineup. Why is Griffey, who plays so deep in center that Freel could run from home to first twice before Griffey reaches the infield not substituted in late innings for a better defensive player. Why is Griffey not sat down more then every once in awhile since he has done nothing offensively since the break. I know Griffey is Griffey, but remember when Larkin was Larkin? Does Jerry Narron take a plunge into the deep end and at least move Griffey down in the order so that bats like Hatteberg and Encarnacion get the chance to produce in the clutch or do we sit and watch as Griffey swings at pitches in the dirt and has bloop fly balls drop infront of him? Only time will tell, please Jerry make the right decision.

At the VERY LEAST he should move to right field. Ryan F. could have had a better chance of getting to balls that went over Griffeys head in the Dodger series.

For the TEAM, Eric Davis swallowed his pride and moved to left field in 1990. That got him a well deserved WORLD SERIES RING.

ENOUGH SAID.

[dougflynn23]

:) A strong manager would call Junior in and say, "I respect the hell out of you, but you have a chance to help us accomplish something that you haven't been a part of since coming here; a playoff game. It's my opinion that moving you to RF full time and dropping you to 5th in the batting order temporarily would help our chances. Can I count on your support in making that move"? I bet he would accept this if handled that way.

[KoryMac5]

This topic has already been beat to death on this forum and others. With as bad as this offense is we need Griffey's 21 hr's in their. He is definitely in a slump but even the great ones slump from time to time. I am sure he will break out of it and than we can move on to more important topics like Dunn's strikeouts. As far as moving Griffey ask Mgmt because that is a management decision. If Narron wanted it done he would have asked him if he refused I am sure Krivs would have been trying to unload him.

[reds44]

He isn't moving out of CF this year. Forget about that. All you can do is move him down in the lineup and go with a Dunn/Edwin/Hatteberg middle of the order.

Hopefully he retires at the end of the year, but if not he MUST be moved to the COF.

[11larkin11]

You forgot though, EE doesnt play :(

[goreds2]

:) A strong manager would call Junior in and say, "I respect the hell out of you, but you have a chance to help us accomplish something that you haven't been a part of since coming here; a playoff game. It's my opinion that moving you to RF full time and dropping you to 5th in the batting order temporarily would help our chances. Can I count on your support in making that move"? I bet he would accept this if handled that way.

Very good point, I can (HALF) understand Griffey's pride in staying in Center field. But he is so cocky. He was on WLW before a game about two weeks ago. Griffey said, "I could write you a check and BOUNCE A BANK." I wish FURMAN would have said, "EARN THAT CHECK." He should make the managers job easier and just say, "I will move to left or right field to help the team." I know........ :deadhorse

[KoryMac5]

Very good point, I can (HALF) understand Griffey's pride in staying in Center field. But he is so cocky. He was on WLW before a game about two weeks ago. Griffey said, "I could write you a check and BOUNCE A BANK." I wish FURMAN would have said, "EARN THAT CHECK." He should make the managers job easier and just say, "I will move to left or right field to help the team." I know........ :deadhorse

I think Griffey was having fun with the commentators. Don't confuse cockiness with having fun, Griffey likes to joke around with people always has since his days in Seattle. As far as earning that check how many people come out to see a natural hall of famer.

[KalDanielsfan]

griffey is gonna retire a RED. you better believe that. he'll switch to LF in a year or two (like Eric Davis did) trust me.

It would be a PR nightmare to let the hometown boy go after he took somewhat of a discount to sign wiht us back in the day

[big boy]

griffey is gonna retire a RED. you better believe that. he'll switch to LF in a year or two (like Eric Davis did) trust me.

The problem with that is Dunner. Where is he gonna play? Hatte is playing 1b next year and Votto after that.

[MaineRed]

I think Griffey was having fun with the commentators. Don't confuse cockiness with having fun, Griffey likes to joke around with people always has since his days in Seattle. As far as earning that check how many people come out to see a natural hall of famer.

Griffey was totally joking around. I think the guys on WLW rib him pretty hard and he was just giving it back. I heard the entire thing and it was nothing.

I for one hope Griffey does not retire. I want to see him hit at least 600 HR. He deserves to be in that select company.

[goreds2]

Griffey was totally joking around. I think the guys on WLW rib him pretty hard and he was just giving it back. I heard the entire thing and it was nothing.

I for one hope Griffey does not retire. I want to see him hit at least 600 HR. He deserves to be in that select company.

Yes, but I do not think he should say that type of comment when he is not putting up the offense and Defense numbers.

I could understand if he said that with Seattle when his "numbers" were GREAT.

[cincrazy]

I don't think Freel could play every day in center and stay healthy. Griffey can still play center. He doesn't get too as many balls as he used to, but that's because he set the bar so high for himself. There's no doubt he needs to pick it up in these last two months, but I'm by no means ready to throw him off any bridge. He's almost 37, and has played in the majors since what, 19? He played on that turf for all those years... he doesn't have many seasons left, obviously. But he can still catch nearly any ball that he gets to. I love Freel... I just don't think he's any better as an every day option.

[Razor Shines]

Very good point, I can (HALF) understand Griffey's pride in staying in Center field. But he is so cocky. He was on WLW before a game about two weeks ago. Griffey said, "I could write you a check and BOUNCE A BANK." I wish FURMAN would have said, "EARN THAT CHECK." He should make the managers job easier and just say, "I will move to left or right field to help the team." I know........ :deadhorse
I've heard and read from people that know him say that he is one of the most UNcocky guys in baseball. I could be wrong but I think Team Clark posted something to that effect not too long ago, not that I know TC or anything I think I just remember reading that.
Forgive me if I am wrong.

[kheidg-]

I'm sick of this, Griffey is the least of our problems. He'll come around...

[oregonred]

I'm sick of this, Griffey is the least of our problems. He'll come around...

I wish you were right, but he takes up 20% of the payroll, has become an ever increasing liability in CF and his offensive production since early June makes Juan Castro look like Albert Pujols. This offense counts on Dunn+KGJ to provide the power, OPS and RBIs. His OBP is 85 points below his career norm, his SLG% 75 pts below and he's trended straight down the last 50-60 games. It's been pretty ugly and painful to watch

I think he still has a run let in him down the stretch, but I"m worried that age has finally taken it's toll. I'd like to see him sit once every 4-5 games to regain some sealegs.

[GOREDSGO32]

Move him to 8th in the batting order. This is ridiculous. Who cares if he's a future HOF'er, his offense is destroying the team and we're pretty screwed with him being an automatic out. Actually give him some days off. Sitting out a few games can help break a slump.

[2001MUgrad]

At this poing I'm not even sure he is an every day player. He has hit horrible the past month. His defense has been even worse. If EE acts like he makes an error he is benched. Before Lopez was traded the same with him. Jr. doesn't run out a thing and costs the team several outs on a weekly basis. I would venture to guess over the course of his walking from base to base and in the OF he gives up 2-3 games worth of outs just in his lack of hustle a year.

[KronoRed]

He's here until 2009.

[Razor Shines]

At this poing I'm not even sure he is an every day player. He has hit horrible the past month. His defense has been even worse. If EE acts like he makes an error he is benched. Before Lopez was traded the same with him. Jr. doesn't run out a thing and costs the team several outs on a weekly basis. I would venture to guess over the course of his walking from base to base and in the OF he gives up 2-3 games worth of outs just in his lack of hustle a year.
He doesn't need to act, he makes plenty of actual errors. 2-3 games worth of outs? How many do you know he did not run out, and of those that you know he did not run out how many do you know he would have been safe on if he did? I have no problem people bashing Jr. for his lack of production, but I don't think you can pin it on a lack of effort.

[Always Red]

He's here until 2009.
That's a fact, and that's just the way it is. We thought it was a great thing 6 years ago; it hasn't quite worked out that way for a variety of reasons.

I don't think Narron or Krivsky want to confront Junior and at this point it really would serve no purpose to do so; it would only create tension and turmoil on the team right now in the middle of the only pennant race we've been in since 1999. What they need to do is build him up, have him regain his confidence and swagger, show some vet leadership and even carry this team, through both word and action, for a time.

Junior in his prime was a phenomenal baseball player. When healthy and in his groove now (2006), he is still above average, at least at the plate. I'm pretty sure Junior realizes his wheels don't work like they used to, and he is probably well aware that he doesn't get to the flares that he used to in short center, or the balls in the gap that he used to easily run down.

The pride that keeps him from addressing this publicly, will one day soon (probably in the offseason?) cause him to also realize that he just can't do it in CF anymore. These guys look at film, they talk to each other, and Junior talks to Senior a lot; maybe Senior is the ONLY guy Junior listens to? Anyway, when Junior starts thinking about it, away from the heat of the battle, I'd bet you see him volunteering to do whatever is best for the team, and move to RF, LF, or wherever he can help the team best. OR, he'll just up and retire, prematurely. Junior doesn't really need baseball anymore, he's rich beyond belief and his spot in the game is secure. He'd only tarnish it hanging on as a shadow of his former self. It would not surprise me at all to see him retire before his contract runs out, rather than hang on and embarass himself as the great Willie Mays did at the end of his career.

I've never thought of Griffey as a selfish player, not at all. He certainly has pride and a competitive edge, as he well should. I still think the Reds are better with him, than without him, right now. Sure, his range is not what it used to be (and mine wouldn't be either if Kremcheck bolted my hamstring back to my femur- something that had not been done surgically before), and when you pair him with Dunner in LF, a lot of balls drop in that should be caught. But raising this issue with him right now will only cause friction and problems in the clubhouse. Which they don't need while they're trying to catch the Cards.

I firmly believe this problem will be addressed in the off season, along with the SS issue. Both need to be addressed, and I believe that both will, but now is not the time.

[BlfdVaFan]

I do not know Griffey. I have never met him in my life. I have admired him as a baseball player forever. I can live with his slumps. I can live with his ever increasing defensive lapses. What bothers me is the effort that he gives or does not give. I know he has had a history of injuries since joining the Reds BUT.......................(You fill in the space). He seems to half heartedly run the bases and go after balls in the outfield. I may have that misjudged because I am not on the field or in the clubhouse but that is the appearance he gives to me.

[Redhook]

I do not know Griffey. I have never met him in my life. I have admired him as a baseball player forever. I can live with his slumps. I can live with his ever increasing defensive lapses. What bothers me is the effort that he gives or does not give. I know he has had a history of injuries since joining the Reds BUT.......................(You fill in the space). He seems to half heartedly run the bases and go after balls in the outfield. I may have that misjudged because I am not on the field or in the clubhouse but that is the appearance he gives to me.

He does half-heartedly run to first and on some balls hit to the outfield. That doesn't mean he isn't giving 100%. He's being smart. Why run out a ground ball that he has virtually no chance to beat out and risk getting hurt? His #1 priorty right now is to stay healthy. I'm willing to let him slide for not sprinting to first and going all out in the outfield for every fly ball. Yes, it would be nice if he could do that, but he can't anymore. And I'm fine with that. I want him in the lineup come September, and hopefully October........batting 4th ;) .

[ChatterRed]

I don't believe he's not trying hard.

I just want him to hit better. Get on base. Keep innings going. Knock in some runs. That is what is frustrating. If he was hitting .270-.280 right now, he'd probably have more rbi's, runs, etc. If he were hitting better........nobody would complain about the other stuff.

[KoryMac5]

He does half-heartedly run to first and on some balls hit to the outfield. That doesn't mean he isn't giving 100%. He's being smart. Why run out a ground ball that he has virtually no chance to beat out and risk getting hurt? His #1 priorty right now is to stay healthy. I'm willing to let him slide for not sprinting to first and going all out in the outfield for every fly ball. Yes, it would be nice if he could do that, but he can't anymore. And I'm fine with that. I want him in the lineup come September, and hopefully October........batting 4th ;) .

Exactly, Griffey used to go all out on every single play when he was younger, now that he is older he is playing smarter he knows he can't get to some of the balls he used to so he makes the smart play. Most of us play sports still and I know I was a maniac on the field at 18, now that I am 33 I know there are some plays I can't make anymore. My heart tells me yes but my head tells me no. I am sure Griffey's heart is still in the right place and every so often we see it over rule his head.

[Unassisted]

He seems to half heartedly run the bases and go after balls in the outfield. His legs are held together with screws from the injuries he's sustained since arriving in Cincinnati. He's probably trying to put together a full season without going on the DL. To do that, he can't run 100% at every opportunity and he can no longer attempt diving catches on plays that aren't do-or-die. Granted, even if he did run at full-speed on every play, it would be slower than it was when he was in Seattle, but that's perfectly understandable... because his legs are held together with screws.

[jmac]

if jr starts today too bust out of it,people wont be worrying about his speed,age etc.
actually with the amount of games jr has played over the last few yrs,could he just be getting tired?

[MaineRed]

Yes, but I do not think he should say that type of comment when he is not putting up the offense and Defense numbers.

I could understand if he said that with Seattle when his "numbers" were GREAT.

They weren't even talking about baseball, they were talking about golf. What does Junior's numbers have to do with anything?

He can't joke around with the guys on WLW unless he is hitting up to your standards?

OK!

[edabbs44]

I'm sick of this, Griffey is the least of our problems. He'll come around...
2 months and counting. No one wants to DFA him, but why should he be hitting 3rd? Does Jerry move him if this keeps up?

[MaineRed]

Double and a INT walk in two PA's today.

Sounds like a number 3 hitter to me.

[GOREDSGO32]

Until 2009 or including 2009?

There's a lot of things that can happen until then. Maybe he's not roiding like Bonds, but Bonds was a dominant hitter at 40 years old. Maybe Griff just needs some change in swing mechanics and put on some muscle.

[edabbs44]

Until 2009 or including 2009?

There's a lot of things that can happen until then. Maybe he's not roiding like Bonds, but Bonds was a dominant hitter at 40 years old. Maybe Griff just needs some change in swing mechanics and put on some muscle.
Put on some muscle? Is that a shrouded attempt at hoping he starts a BALCO training program?

[edabbs44]

Double and a INT walk in two PA's today.

Sounds like a number 3 hitter to me.
???

Does a sub .240 avg and sub .300 OBP also fit the criteria?

[KronoRed]

Until 2009 or including 2009?

Until, the Reds have an option for 2009 that I doubt they pick up.

[MaineRed]

???

Does a sub .240 avg and sub .300 OBP also fit the criteria?

Juan Castro is hitting .327. Does that mean he should be hitting 3rd?

I personally don't care where Griffey hits. If the team swings the bats a little and gets some pitching, they will win more than they lose and will probably win the WC. If they don't get any hitting, they are going to fade. And if they aren't hitting, they aren't hitting. Where they bat isn't the issue.

Look at this Reds team. Does anyone besides Dunn scare the other team as much? We don't want Hatte, Ross, Phillips, Freel, Denorfia or Aurillia hitting there. Who does that leave? Dunn and Edwin. Dunn has hit 2nd, 4th or 5th. Is moving him to 3rd going to make any big difference?

Edwin doesn't even play everyday.

How much better would this team be if Griffey was hitting 5th and Dunn 3rd with Edwin between them? Would the difference be THAT noticeable?

With Griffey's power you cannot justify him any lower than 5th. I'm sorry, I just don't see how dropping him two spots is going to cure anything. Your either swinging the bat or you aren't.

[kheidg-]

Griffey is in a slump, there is no denying that. But pitchers tend to pitch around him, even though he is in a slump. I think he is starting to come out of this slump and will finish the year strong. Also, keep in mind that he has had Rich Aurilia batting behind him most of the season - RA is having a decent season, but he doesn't force pitchers to pitch to Griffey.

[StillFunkyB]

Griffey is in a slump, there is no denying that. But pitchers tend to pitch around him, even though he is in a slump. I think he is starting to come out of this slump and will finish the year strong. Also, keep in mind that he has had Rich Aurilia batting behind him most of the season - RA is having a decent season, but he doesn't force pitchers to pitch to Griffey.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Griffey is still a very valuable asset to this ballclub. Ask Adam Dunn.

I would bat him 4th with Dunn 3rd, but I'm just a fan.

[KoryMac5]

I really feel that this shift that teams are playing against him have really screwed up some of his mechanics. He needs to drop down a bunt or two every so often like he did tonight to keep the defense honest. Other than that have him swing away and give him a night off against a tough lefty every so often.

[Highlifeman21]

I don't think Freel could play every day in center and stay healthy. Griffey can still play center. He doesn't get too as many balls as he used to, but that's because he set the bar so high for himself. There's no doubt he needs to pick it up in these last two months, but I'm by no means ready to throw him off any bridge. He's almost 37, and has played in the majors since what, 19? He played on that turf for all those years... he doesn't have many seasons left, obviously. But he can still catch nearly any ball that he gets to. I love Freel... I just don't think he's any better as an every day option.


If by still play you mean a couple steps in from the warning track having no chance to get anything in front of him, to his left or to his right...

The problem with Griffey is that he doesn't get to hardly anything anymore...

Denorfia is the CF of the near future for the Reds, it's a shame we'll probably never see him there anytime soon.

[kheidg-]

I really feel that this shift that teams are playing against him have really screwed up some of his mechanics. He needs to drop down a bunt or two every so often like he did tonight to keep the defense honest. Other than that have him swing away and give him a night off against a tough lefty every so often.

I didn't see the bunt live but was watching on Gamecast at work. How did he manage to get out on that play?

[cincrazy]

I don't understand why Griffey catches so much heat, and a guy like Pete Rose is an absolute hero. I love Rose for what he did on the field, and respect the hell out of him as a ballplayer, but as a person, one can't get much shadier. All Griffey has ever done here is get HURT, and he's satan. I know that things haven't worked out for Griffey or this franchise since 2000, and I know almost ALL of you in this discussion make valid points in wanting to move him in the batting order, or to a corner outfield spot. That's not what I have a problem with. I just wish some of the venom that I've seen, whether it be occasionally on this board, or in the stands when the guy gets hurt, would go away.

[Always Red]

I'm not so sure that's a great comparison, if only because Rose never did NOT produce. Plus, Rose spent next to no time at all on the DL.

As you say, it is through no fault of Griffey's at all, that he has been hurt so much. Personally, I think he has gained weight over the last few years and could be in better shape, but then again, the guy is getting older, and most of us get larger as we get towards middle age. Plus, his wheels have been operated on so much, it's a miracle, really, that he can still run at all. I also think some of the arguments over moving out of the CF position are valid.

I think it's for 2 reasons that he catches so much heat; the first being jealousy over the amount of his contract. People feel a sense of ownership, and feel as if they are paying that amount out of their pockets, and feel free to bash at will if he doesn't produce, or gets injured. I was embarrassed a couple of years ago to see him lying hurt in the outfield and fans actually booing him for getting hurt. That's not the Cincinnati I grew up in! It's a tougher world out there now, everyone's a critic, and there is a lot of kicking people while they're down that goes on, not just here, or in baseball, but in general today.

The 2nd reason I think is just out of frustration. It wasn't supposed to be this way. Junior was going to come here and continue hitting .300 with 50 HRs and 120 RBI every year, just as he did in Seattle.

No one could have forecast that it would have turned out as badly as it has for both Junior and the Reds. And that frustrates a lot of people. It's no one's fault, but then again, we live in a world now where someone is at fault for everything that happens.:( I'm sure no one is more disappointed than Ken Griffey, Jr.

[cincrazy]

Absolutely agreed Always Red. And the point i was trying to make with Jr. and Rose wasn't necessarily production, just that Rose embarrassed this franchise, and put a blackmark on it that will remain FOREVER. Griffey gets injured, through no fault of his own, and people are just brutal towards him. Jr. hasn't embarrassed this franchise through gambling, steroids, spousal abuse, adultery, or in any other way. He's the greatest player of his era, INCLUDING Mr. Bonds and A-Rod, and I wish he could get more respect.

[Always Red]

Absolutely agreed Always Red. And the point i was trying to make with Jr. and Rose wasn't necessarily production, just that Rose embarrassed this franchise, and put a blackmark on it that will remain FOREVER. Griffey gets injured, through no fault of his own, and people are just brutal towards him. Jr. hasn't embarrassed this franchise through gambling, steroids, spousal abuse, adultery, or in any other way. He's the greatest player of his era, INCLUDING Mr. Bonds and A-Rod, and I wish he could get more respect.
Agree with everything you say about Junior, cincrazy.

I have to separate character from production, though. For example, Sean Casey was one of the best MEN ever to wear a Reds uniform. But his production had slipped so much, I had no problem with him moving on for a starting pitcher (I know, I know, he wasn't a very good starting pitcher, thanks, DanO).

Junior's production and defense have slipped, no question. I have no problem with folks pointing that out- that's why we're all here, right, to discuss those kinds of things? And Junior has never had any of the character issues that you mention above. He seems to be an outstanding person, and has never embarrassed himself nor his family.

Rose, of course, had all of those problems. I think Rose embarrassed himself more than the Reds. Folks look back on that time and blame Rose, not the Cincinnati Reds. If anything, Marge Schott embarrassed her own club more by some of the silly things she said back in the day. And just for the record, I was, and still am, huge fans of both Rose and Schott. Rose, a totally flawed man, was the best competitor I've ever seen; given his competitive spirit, I can almost guarantee you that he never bet against the Reds. Schott said many silly things, and did not know when to keep her mouth shut, but she loved the Reds, kept them in town, and put the $ into them to try to make them better as well. She certainly made a lot of mistakes, but she did a lot of good for the Reds and this city, as well.

Oh well, Rose and Schott have both made their own legacy, and both tarnished themselves by things they did or said. Rose made the fatal error of doing the one thing that is posted in every clubhouse not to do. He thought he was bigger than the game, and the game showed him that he was not.

Griffey's legacy will be brighter, of course. The only question mark will not include steroids, gambling or the like, but only "what might have been?"

Junior's final career numbers will be impressive, indeed. Can you imagine what they would be if he had not been injured so much during his time with the Reds? It's like trying to figure out what Ted Williams numbers would have been had he not taken 5 years out to go and defend his country.

[TeamBoone]

As you say, it is through no fault of Griffey's at all, that he has been hurt so much. Personally, I think he has gained weight over the last few years and could be in better shape, but then again, the guy is getting older, and most of us get larger as we get towards middle age. Plus, his wheels have been operated on so much, it's a miracle, really, that he can still run at all. I also think some of the arguments over moving out of the CF position are valid.

You're right, it is a miracle. And perhaps all those horrendous injuries and subsequent surgeries are part of the reason he's gained weight. I'd think that just perhaps they may impact on his weight program... not what he eats, but his workouts.

[Always Red]

You're right, it is a miracle. And perhaps all those horrendous injuries and subsequent surgeries are part of the reason he's gained weight. I'd think that just perhaps they may impact on his weight program... not what he eats, but his workouts.
no doubt

[fielder's choice]

http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/CSB102080615_lower.jpg

He's done. :rolleyes:

[redsfan30]

http://images.sportsline.com/u/ap/photos/CSB102080615_lower.jpg

He's done. :rolleyes:
I wish he'd just do us all a favor and retire so Chris Denorfia can play center every day...

[fielder's choice]

Word.

[cincrazy]

Yeah, I mean what was the guy thinking yesterday ONLY hitting it to the base of the black batter's eye yesterday? A real Hall of Famer would have hit that one into Kentucky! ;)

[Always Red]

Yeah, I mean what was the guy thinking yesterday ONLY hitting it to the base of the black batter's eye yesterday? A real Hall of Famer would have hit that one into Kentucky! ;)
:laugh: :D

[steig]

I wish he'd just do us all a favor and retire so Chris Denorfia can play center every day...

What has Chris Denoforia done lately? If Griffey retires people would start complaining that our offense is weak and we need a power hitting outfielder that can drive in runs. Griffey isn't what he used to be in center but he is still a better outfielder than Adam Dunn. freel may be faster but he doesn't play the field (or base running) with as much intelligence as griffey. Until a real replacement for griffey is ready then we need him in the lineup.

[fielder's choice]

What has Chris Denoforia done lately? If Griffey retires people would start complaining that our offense is weak and we need a power hitting outfielder that can drive in runs. Griffey isn't what he used to be in center but he is still a better outfielder than Adam Dunn. freel may be faster but he doesn't play the field (or base running) with as much intelligence as griffey. Until a real replacement for griffey is ready then we need him in the lineup.

Turn your sarcasm detector up. :thumbup:

[redsfan30]

Turn your sarcasm detector up. :thumbup:
Waaayyyyyyy up!

:)

[Tom B]

I just wish he could do more like he did on Saturday, were he punched that ground ball back through the 6 hole. I think he is coming out of his slump now and hopefully he can get on a streak like Dunn has been and carry the offense through this series!

[redsfan30]

I just wish he could do more like he did on Saturday, were he punched that ground ball back through the 6 hole. I think he is coming out of his slump now and hopefully he can get on a streak like Dunn has been and carry the offense through this series!
He's defintely coming out of his slump. He's starting to go the other way and he's driving the ball with much more force.

[jimbo]

As you say, it is through no fault of Griffey's at all, that he has been hurt so much. Personally, I think he has gained weight over the last few years and could be in better shape, but then again, the guy is getting older, and most of us get larger as we get towards middle age.

I don't attribute his weight as having anything to do with his injuries. I blame it on playing 11 seasons on the Kingdome astroturf, a field that many players have said was the worst playing surface they had ever played on. I played one game in the outfield in high school on turf in Cooper Stadium in Columbus, and my knees hurt for days afterwards. I couldn't imagine playing 11 major league seasons on it.

[TeamBoone]

I don't attribute his weight as having anything to do with his injuries. I blame it on playing 11 seasons on the Kingdome astroturf, a field that many players have said was the worst playing surface they had ever played on. I played one game in the outfield in high school on turf in Cooper Stadium in Columbus, and my knees hurt for days afterwards. I couldn't imagine playing 11 major league seasons on it.

Okay, I had to read this three times, but I think I finally figured it out. You're saying that you attribute his injuries to playing on Astroturf for so long?

The first time I read it, I thought you were saying that someone said his weight contributed to his injuries and you were refuting that (I looked back on the thread to see if someone had said that; no one did).

The second time I read it, I thought you were saying that you blamed the Astroturf for his weight gain.

[jimbo]

Okay, I had to read this three times, but I think I finally figured it out. You're saying that you attribute his injuries to playing on Astroturf for so long?

The first time I read it, I thought you were saying that someone said his weight contributed to his injuries and you were refuting that (I looked back on the thread to see if someone had said that; no one did).

The second time I read it, I thought you were saying that you blamed the Astroturf for his weight gain.

LOL, sorry for the confusion. After I re-read it I can understand why you had to read it multiple times. I blame a lot of his injury problems on playing on the Kingdome astroturf all of those years. I think Junior's legs would be a lot sounder if he had been fortunate enough to play on a grass surface.

And yes, I misquoted Always Red's original point and for that I apologize to him. That's what I get for not taking the extra time to read it more thoroughly.

[Always Red]

LOL, sorry for the confusion. After I re-read it I can understand why you had to read it multiple times. I blame a lot of his injury problems on playing on the Kingdome astroturf all of those years. I think Junior's legs would be a lot sounder if he had been fortunate enough to play on a grass surface.

And yes, I misquoted Always Red's original point and for that I apologize to him. That's what I get for not taking the extra time to read it more thoroughly.
no problem, Jimbo!

and I agree totally with your point on the artificial turf; it's bad stuff for knees, and joints and baseball in general:thumbdown I used to cringe every time I saw a ground ball go to the left of the SS, and all the way to the wall for extra bases- that's just not right!

[Big Daddy P]

Grif IS done as a superstar. He IS done as 3 hole hitter.

He needs to be hitting 6th or so, where he can still be himself-a .250 hitter with occasional power. His play in the field is still adequate.

It's very sad to see what he's become, compared to what he was.

and enough with the "junior" already, he's an old fart now!

[registerthis]

and enough with the "junior" already, he's an old fart now!

The "Junior" is part of his name.

You know - Ken Griffey, Jr.

[TC81190]

I'm sick of this, Griffey is the least of our problems. He'll come around...

He eats up alot of our resources, isn't the best CF anymore, and has a sub 300 OBP.

[Redsfan08]

He has to stay healthy first

[fielder's choice]

He eats up alot of our resources, isn't the best CF anymore, and has a sub 300 OBP.

Not anymore. :mooner: