8/15/06: Reds @ Cardinals Game Thread (Clayton, LaRue in)

[Heath]

Just out of curiousity, who is first in pitches thrown this year?

I would guess Livan Hernandez - but that's a guess.

[Cyclone792]

FCB-- C'mon, Arroyo was performing WAY over his head for the first few months. Logic and history told us he'd come back down to earth.

Big flaw right here with that argument ...

"Coming back down to earth" and a 2.45 HR/9 since the ASB are two totally different worlds.

[Fullboat]

I think Narron waiting till were down 7-0.:angry:

[GridironGrace]

Encarnacion: 1-2 Rolen on 1st 1 out

Ball
Foul
Swinging Strike


Encarnacion.. lines out to Freel

2 outs

[flyer85]

series not shaping up well.

[George Foster]

Is there anyone warming?

My DVD player

[Matt700wlw]

You should buy it.

What about the old days? 4 man rotations, no (or very little) pitch counts. Pitching out of the bullpen on off days....

Ask Nuxhall about it, he'll tell you. I don't know if guys are just babied through the minors moreso now then they were years ago, and their arms aren't trained for it so much anymore.

"pitch counts" never used to be an issue.

[GridironGrace]

Belliard: 2-2 2 RBI Rolen on first 2 outs

Called Strike
Foul


Belliard Singles to RF Rolen to 2B

[reds44]

Harang has 96 pitches and has given up 5 runs in not even 5 innings

Why is he still in?

[flyer85]

jerry double switch him out

[redsfan30]

People...use your brains!

He's trying to get Harang through the inning so they don't have to bring a reliever in for one out then get pinch hit for.

He's not going to waste a pitcher to get one out in a 5-0 game.

[Falls City Beer]

Pitch speed decreases, control problems--all symptoms of tired arms/injured arms.

[Matt700wlw]

series not shaping up well.

1 night and the whole series is wasted?


Ok....

[Aronchis]

Put your hands over your ears and say: Harang really is a ace, Harang really is a ace, Harang really is a ace over and over again. Maybe you will come to believe it.

I heard that the Reds put Homer Bailey through a time machine and he has come out as a 23 year old................

[PickOff]

RK PLAYER TEAM G GS IP H R ER BB SO W L HLD SV ERA
1 Brandon Webb Ari 24 24 172.1 168 60 53 31 129 13 4 0 0 2.77
2 Carlos Zambrano ChC 26 26 170.2 126 69 64 96 167 13 5 0 0 3.38
3 Bronson Arroyo Cin 25 25 170.1 172 73 67 38 135 9 8 0 0 3.54
4 John Smoltz Atl 25 25 169.0 157 66 64 36 153 10 5 0 0 3.41
5 Derek Lowe LA 26 26 165.1 168 80 73 44 95 10 8 0 0 3.97
Chris Capuano Mil 25 25 165.1 172 75 69 31 136 10 8 0 0 3.76
Dontrelle Willis Fla 25 25 165.1 185 85 76 63 114 7 10 0 0 4.14
8 Jason Schmidt SF 24 24 165.0 136 60 55 58 140 9 7 0 0 3.00
9 Jason Jennings Col 24 24 164.2 157 67 63 57 116 7 9 0 0 3.44
10 Roy Oswalt Hou 25 24 164.0 175 62 59 29 113 9 8 0 0 3.24
RK PLAYER TEAM G GS IP H R ER BB SO W L HLD SV ERA
11 Aaron Harang Cin 26 25 162.1 168 77 66 46 154 12 7 0 0 3.66
12 Tim Hudson Atl 26 26 162.0 179 97 89 60 104 9 10 0 0 4.94
13 Aaron Cook Col 24 24 160.2 185 72 69 40 64 8 10 0 0 3.87
14 Andy Pettitte Hou 27 26 159.1 189 94 86 54 136 11 12 0 0 4.86
15 Greg Maddux ChC 25 25 156.1 162 80 73 27 90 10 11 0 0 4.20
16 Jason Marquis StL 25 25 156.0 173 105 99 55 73 12 11 0 0 5.71
17 Dave Bush Mil 26 24 155.1 155 88 81 33 125 8 9 1 0 4.69
18 Livan Hernandez Was 25 25 154.2 186 98 91 53 93 9 9 0 0 5.30
19 Jeff Francis Col 24 24 154.0 125 63 58 55 94 9 9 0 0 3.39
20 Tom Glavine NYM 25 25 153.2 163 75 67 51 100 12 5 0 0


Their innings pitched are nothing crazy, considering their ERA

[reds44]

People...use your brains!

He's trying to get Harang through the inning so they don't have to bring a reliever in for one out then get pinch hit for.

He's not going to waste a pitcher to get one out in a 5-0 game.
You know they do have this thing called a double switch right?

[Falls City Beer]

A thousand bucks says Narron sends Harang out for the 6th.

[captainmorgan07]

People...use your brains!

He's trying to get Harang through the inning so they don't have to bring a reliever in for one out then get pinch hit for.

He's not going to waste a pitcher to get one out in a 5-0 game.
exactly

[Matt700wlw]

Put your hands over your ears and say: Harang really is a ace, Harang really is a ace, Harang really is a ace over and over again. Maybe you will come to believe it.

I heard that the Reds put Homer Bailey through a time machine and he has come out as a 23 year old................


For this staff, he has been.

Hopefully a true ace is on the shopping list this winter.

[reds44]

RK PLAYER TEAM G GS IP H R ER BB SO W L HLD SV ERA
1 Brandon Webb Ari 24 24 172.1 168 60 53 31 129 13 4 0 0 2.77
2 Carlos Zambrano ChC 26 26 170.2 126 69 64 96 167 13 5 0 0 3.38
3 Bronson Arroyo Cin 25 25 170.1 172 73 67 38 135 9 8 0 0 3.54
4 John Smoltz Atl 25 25 169.0 157 66 64 36 153 10 5 0 0 3.41
5 Derek Lowe LA 26 26 165.1 168 80 73 44 95 10 8 0 0 3.97
Chris Capuano Mil 25 25 165.1 172 75 69 31 136 10 8 0 0 3.76
Dontrelle Willis Fla 25 25 165.1 185 85 76 63 114 7 10 0 0 4.14
8 Jason Schmidt SF 24 24 165.0 136 60 55 58 140 9 7 0 0 3.00
9 Jason Jennings Col 24 24 164.2 157 67 63 57 116 7 9 0 0 3.44
10 Roy Oswalt Hou 25 24 164.0 175 62 59 29 113 9 8 0 0 3.24
RK PLAYER TEAM G GS IP H R ER BB SO W L HLD SV ERA
11 Aaron Harang Cin 26 25 162.1 168 77 66 46 154 12 7 0 0 3.66
12 Tim Hudson Atl 26 26 162.0 179 97 89 60 104 9 10 0 0 4.94
13 Aaron Cook Col 24 24 160.2 185 72 69 40 64 8 10 0 0 3.87
14 Andy Pettitte Hou 27 26 159.1 189 94 86 54 136 11 12 0 0 4.86
15 Greg Maddux ChC 25 25 156.1 162 80 73 27 90 10 11 0 0 4.20
16 Jason Marquis StL 25 25 156.0 173 105 99 55 73 12 11 0 0 5.71
17 Dave Bush Mil 26 24 155.1 155 88 81 33 125 8 9 1 0 4.69
18 Livan Hernandez Was 25 25 154.2 186 98 91 53 93 9 9 0 0 5.30
19 Jeff Francis Col 24 24 154.0 125 63 58 55 94 9 9 0 0 3.39
20 Tom Glavine NYM 25 25 153.2 163 75 67 51 100 12 5 0 0


Their innings pitched are nothing crazy, considering their ERA
Those are IP, not pitches thrown.

[flyer85]

People...use your brains!

He's trying to get Harang through the inning so they don't have to bring a reliever in for one out then get pinch hit for.
there is that double switch thing

[George Foster]

I'm just not sure I buy the "overuse" thing. Honest question here-- are athletes today more prone to arm injuries--why were old timers able to throw so much more w/ so much less damage?

Look at the Braves in the 90's. The "big three" arms were over used. Only knock on Bobby Cox, was that he let them pitch to many innings.

[GullyFoyle]

A thousand bucks says Narron sends Harang out for the 6th.

I really wish I could take that bet... but with Narron I have to believe your right

[CTA513]

BTW, Cards announcers laughing at Dunn's "effort" on the field. I must say, he is pretty darn lackadisacal-- he was almost walking to 2nd on that hit by Clayton.

They must not watch Juan Encarnacion in right field much.
Ive seen him turn a few singles into doubles and some doubles into triples with his "effort".
Both teams dont have much defense in the outfield.

[GridironGrace]

Molina: 2 on 2 outs 8th batter in this inning

Swinging Strike(Blocked in Dirt)
Foul
Foul
Blocked ball in Dirt 1-2


Molina lines out softly to Griffey

Inning over heading to the 6th down 5-0

[Heath]

I would guess Livan Hernandez - but that's a guess.

Wrong. Carlos Zambrano leads the league in pitches tossed.

[VR]

Put your hands over your ears and say: Harang really is a ace, Harang really is a ace, Harang really is a ace over and over again. Maybe you will come to believe it.

I heard that the Reds put Homer Bailey through a time machine and he has come out as a 23 year old................

Pull up the 'ace' stats for the NL this year, and see where Aaron ranks. Unless stats are useless, then never mind.

[Aronchis]

For this staff, he has been.

Hopefully a true ace is on the shopping list this winter.

You aren't going to find one.

[Falls City Beer]

I really wish I could take that bet... but with Narron I have to believe your right

Hey, it's only 100 pitches through 5.

[George Foster]

A thousand bucks says Narron sends Harang out for the 6th.


how about a philly cheesestake and your on. You do know how to pack things in dry ice, right?:laugh:

[Edskin]

Here is the pitches thrown list for MLB--- Are Harang and Arroyo the only ones subject to this philosophy?

1. C Zambrano
CHC .205 732 2913 17.07 0 0 1.74 5.06 8.81 6.64
2. B Zito
OAK .257 711 2787 16.72 0 0 1.58 3.94 6.21 8.53
3. B Arroyo
CIN .260 711 2747 16.13 0 0 3.55 2.01 7.13 9.09
4. D Willis
FLA .286 738 2719 16.45 0 0 1.81 3.43 6.21 10.07
5. A Harang
CIN .270 692 2690 16.57 0 0 3.35 2.55 8.54 9.31
6. A Pettitte
HOU .300 701 2642 16.58 0 1 2.52 3.05 7.68 10.68
6. J Schmidt
SF .226 675 2642 16.01 0 0 2.41 3.16 7.64 7.42
8. D Haren
OAK .241 693 2637 15.63 0 0 3.82 1.81 6.94 8.32
9. J Lackey
LAA .229 695 2632 15.79 0 0 2.28 3.29 7.51 7.61
10. C Schilling
BOS .268 674 2622 15.73 0 0 6.77 1.19 8.05 9.29
11. T Glavine
NYM .276 661 2576 16.76 0 0 1.96 2.99 5.86 9.55
12. J Santana
MIN .226 675 2555 15.09 0 0 4.81 1.97 9.46 7.55
13. D Davis
MIL .275 668 2554 17.37 0 0 1.38 4.84 6.67 9.55
14. R Johnson
NYY .255 664 2551 16.21 0 0 2.91 2.57 7.49 8.81
15. D Lowe
LAD .259 701 2550 15.42 0 0 2.16 2.40 5.17 9.15
16. T Hudson
ATL .277 719 2529 15.61 0 0 1.73 3.33 5.78 9.94
17. L Hernandez
ARI .299 696 2526 16.33 0 0 1.75 3.08 5.41 10.82
18. J Smoltz
ATL .247 691 2525 14.94 0 0 4.25 1.92 8.15 8.36
19. J Jennings
COL .254 690 2498 15.17 0 0 2.04 3.12 6.34 8.58
20. C Capuano
MIL .267 688 2485 15.03 0 0 4.39 1.69 7.40 9.36
21. G Meche
SEA .263 597 2458 17.85 0 0 1.81 4.12 7.45 9.02
22. J Beckett
BOS .246 647 2448 16.07 0 0 2.52 2.95 7.44 8.51
23. J Washburn
SEA .264 637 2447 16.46 0 0 1.81 2.60 4.72 9.26
24. B Webb
ARI .258 694 2445 14.19 0 0 4.16 1.62 6.74 8.77
25. J Peavy
SD .253 611 2443 17.04 0 0 3.50 2.76 9.67 8.85
26. R Oswalt
HOU .279 673 2436 14.85 0 1 3.90 1.59 6.20 9.60

[GridironGrace]

If harang aint done somethings wrong so here's his final stats 2nite

5 ip 8 hits 5 runs 5 er 2 BB HBB 4 K 1 HR WP
101 pitches 67 strikes 4 ground outs 7 Fly outs

and 1 disappointing start Doesnt help he's getting no run support what soever though.... ill give him that much.. but you cant have 100+ pitches in 5 innings and expect to have a prayer.

[Matt700wlw]

You aren't going to find one.

Unless it's a Free Agent.

I don't know who is a Free Agent, or what kind of money they will command.


Harang has been one of the better pitchers in the NL this season, he's just struggling right now, and he's probably tired.... I'd be more than happy to have him high in this rotation next season.

Narron's biggest flaw has been managing pitchers.

[GridironGrace]

Castro PH'ing for Harang

[captainmorgan07]

don't feel so bad the mets have got blow apart 2 straight nites with pedro and el duque on the mound

[GullyFoyle]

Hehe.. Castro...

[Heath]

For this staff, he has been.

Hopefully a true ace is on the shopping list this winter.

I'd like to find a solid #2 - or kinda like a 1-b type.

But, I'd agree with Aronchris - I'm not paying Barry Zito 12 Million to pitch here.

[GridironGrace]

Castro: 0 on 0 outs down 5-0

Ball
Called Strike

Castro Grounds out to SS

1 out

[GridironGrace]

we need SOMETHIGN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[flyer85]

PHing Castro against Carpenter is dumb

[George Foster]

Carpenter is cruisin':angry:

[GridironGrace]

Freel: HBP 0-1 1 out

Foul
Called Strike
Ball 1-2


Freel Strikes out Swinging.. 2 down and Carpenter Mows on

[CTA513]

Carpenter is cruisin':angry:

Dont worry they have Arroyo and his cornrows going tomorrow.

:p:

[Edskin]

Maybe not a bad night for Harang to go belly up. Carpenter is dealing and I doubt any line-up we could toss up there would be hitting him hard tonight. This game is way over, but we can still win the series.

[Heath]

Here is the pitches thrown list for MLB--- Are Harang and Arroyo the only ones subject to this philosophy?

1. C Zambrano
CHC .205 732 2913 17.07 0 0 1.74 5.06 8.81 6.64
2. B Zito
OAK .257 711 2787 16.72 0 0 1.58 3.94 6.21 8.53
3. B Arroyo
CIN .260 711 2747 16.13 0 0 3.55 2.01 7.13 9.09
4. D Willis
FLA .286 738 2719 16.45 0 0 1.81 3.43 6.21 10.07
5. A Harang
CIN .270 692 2690 16.57 0 0 3.35 2.55 8.54 9.31
6. A Pettitte
HOU .300 701 2642 16.58 0 1 2.52 3.05 7.68 10.68
6. J Schmidt
SF .226 675 2642 16.01 0 0 2.41 3.16 7.64 7.42
8. D Haren
OAK .241 693 2637 15.63 0 0 3.82 1.81 6.94 8.32
9. J Lackey
LAA .229 695 2632 15.79 0 0 2.28 3.29 7.51 7.61
10. C Schilling
BOS .268 674 2622 15.73 0 0 6.77 1.19 8.05 9.29
11. T Glavine
NYM .276 661 2576 16.76 0 0 1.96 2.99 5.86 9.55
12. J Santana
MIN .226 675 2555 15.09 0 0 4.81 1.97 9.46 7.55
13. D Davis
MIL .275 668 2554 17.37 0 0 1.38 4.84 6.67 9.55
14. R Johnson
NYY .255 664 2551 16.21 0 0 2.91 2.57 7.49 8.81
15. D Lowe
LAD .259 701 2550 15.42 0 0 2.16 2.40 5.17 9.15
16. T Hudson
ATL .277 719 2529 15.61 0 0 1.73 3.33 5.78 9.94
17. L Hernandez
ARI .299 696 2526 16.33 0 0 1.75 3.08 5.41 10.82
18. J Smoltz
ATL .247 691 2525 14.94 0 0 4.25 1.92 8.15 8.36
19. J Jennings
COL .254 690 2498 15.17 0 0 2.04 3.12 6.34 8.58
20. C Capuano
MIL .267 688 2485 15.03 0 0 4.39 1.69 7.40 9.36
21. G Meche
SEA .263 597 2458 17.85 0 0 1.81 4.12 7.45 9.02
22. J Beckett
BOS .246 647 2448 16.07 0 0 2.52 2.95 7.44 8.51
23. J Washburn
SEA .264 637 2447 16.46 0 0 1.81 2.60 4.72 9.26
24. B Webb
ARI .258 694 2445 14.19 0 0 4.16 1.62 6.74 8.77
25. J Peavy
SD .253 611 2443 17.04 0 0 3.50 2.76 9.67 8.85
26. R Oswalt
HOU .279 673 2436 14.85 0 1 3.90 1.59 6.20 9.60

Zambrano is still a streaky guy sometimes - Interesting to see Gil Meche's name on the list.

Peavy & Oswalt's been injured, heck half of that list has been injured.

[GullyFoyle]

The Reds should just tell the 7-9 to take as many pitches as they can get Carpenter to throw...

[Cyclone792]

DIPS ERA

Harang Pre ASB: 3.43
Harang Post ASB: 4.05

Arroyo Pre ASB: 3.93
Arroyo Post ASB: 5.11

[GridironGrace]

Hatteberg: 0-2 K 2 outs 0 on

Called Strike
Ball
Swinging Strike

Hatte- Grounds out too 1B

heading to the bot half once again quickly trailing 5-0 and swinging the bat like a bunch of rookies

[flyer85]

don't feel so bad the mets have got blow apart 2 straight nites with pedro and el duque on the moundof course they have a nice double digit lead

[reds44]

DIPS ERA

Harang Pre ASB: 3.43
Harang Post ASB: 4.05

Arroyo Pre ASB: 3.93
Arroyo Post ASB: 5.11
Yeah but that has nothing to do with how many innings/pitches they've thrown.

:rolleyes:

[VR]

PHing Castro against Carpenter is dumb

What's your plan?

[Heath]

DIPS ERA

Harang Pre ASB: 3.43
Harang Post ASB: 4.05

Arroyo Pre ASB: 3.93
Arroyo Post ASB: 5.11

Cyclone, tell your statistics to shut-up.


:bang: :yikes:

[GridironGrace]

should i keep going?? lol

this is very disappointing.. someone wanna come in and try and mop up my bad luck and keep us in the game and get the bats going??

Someone take over PBP..........calling for a Relief pitcher who wants it?

[reds44]

Freel is hitting .222 in August.

I still don't think he can play everyday.

[George Foster]

You aren't going to find one.

Who whould want to pitch in GAB...seriously? Not me.

[GridironGrace]

cmon someone take over and help these bats heat up so i can stay 1-0 in PBP :)

[Matt700wlw]

I'd like to find a solid #2 - or kinda like a 1-b type.

But, I'd agree with Aronchris - I'm not paying Barry Zito 12 Million to pitch here.

Honestly a couple Harang's, a couple Arroyo's and a Milton would probably be enough for this team...

[GridironGrace]

Franklin in for Harang

[CTA513]

Who whould want to pitch in GAB...seriously? Not me.

Give me a major league pay check and I will.

:devil:

[Matt700wlw]

Who whould want to pitch in GAB...seriously? Not me.

If the Reds are willing to pay him, they will.


If you can pitch well and keep the ball down, you can succeed at GABP.

[GridironGrace]

Carpenter:

Called Strike
Swinging Strike
Ball
Ball
Foul


Carpenter grounds out to SS

1 Down

[Falls City Beer]

Freel is hitting .222 in August.

I still don't think he can play everyday.

.377 OBP in August.

.394 OBP since ASB.

The guy has ONE crummy day at the plate and you want to bench him. Unreal.

[wheels]

Here is the pitches thrown list for MLB--- Are Harang and Arroyo the only ones subject to this philosophy?

1. C Zambrano
CHC .205 732 2913 17.07 0 0 1.74 5.06 8.81 6.64
2. B Zito
OAK .257 711 2787 16.72 0 0 1.58 3.94 6.21 8.53
3. B Arroyo
CIN .260 711 2747 16.13 0 0 3.55 2.01 7.13 9.09
4. D Willis
FLA .286 738 2719 16.45 0 0 1.81 3.43 6.21 10.07
5. A Harang
CIN .270 692 2690 16.57 0 0 3.35 2.55 8.54 9.31
6. A Pettitte
HOU .300 701 2642 16.58 0 1 2.52 3.05 7.68 10.68
6. J Schmidt
SF .226 675 2642 16.01 0 0 2.41 3.16 7.64 7.42
8. D Haren
OAK .241 693 2637 15.63 0 0 3.82 1.81 6.94 8.32
9. J Lackey
LAA .229 695 2632 15.79 0 0 2.28 3.29 7.51 7.61
10. C Schilling
BOS .268 674 2622 15.73 0 0 6.77 1.19 8.05 9.29
11. T Glavine
NYM .276 661 2576 16.76 0 0 1.96 2.99 5.86 9.55
12. J Santana
MIN .226 675 2555 15.09 0 0 4.81 1.97 9.46 7.55
13. D Davis
MIL .275 668 2554 17.37 0 0 1.38 4.84 6.67 9.55
14. R Johnson
NYY .255 664 2551 16.21 0 0 2.91 2.57 7.49 8.81
15. D Lowe
LAD .259 701 2550 15.42 0 0 2.16 2.40 5.17 9.15
16. T Hudson
ATL .277 719 2529 15.61 0 0 1.73 3.33 5.78 9.94
17. L Hernandez
ARI .299 696 2526 16.33 0 0 1.75 3.08 5.41 10.82
18. J Smoltz
ATL .247 691 2525 14.94 0 0 4.25 1.92 8.15 8.36
19. J Jennings
COL .254 690 2498 15.17 0 0 2.04 3.12 6.34 8.58
20. C Capuano
MIL .267 688 2485 15.03 0 0 4.39 1.69 7.40 9.36
21. G Meche
SEA .263 597 2458 17.85 0 0 1.81 4.12 7.45 9.02
22. J Beckett
BOS .246 647 2448 16.07 0 0 2.52 2.95 7.44 8.51
23. J Washburn
SEA .264 637 2447 16.46 0 0 1.81 2.60 4.72 9.26
24. B Webb
ARI .258 694 2445 14.19 0 0 4.16 1.62 6.74 8.77
25. J Peavy
SD .253 611 2443 17.04 0 0 3.50 2.76 9.67 8.85
26. R Oswalt
HOU .279 673 2436 14.85 0 1 3.90 1.59 6.20 9.60

Both Harang and Arroyo had very heavy workloads earlier in the season, and I suspect that while both of them have pitched 200 innings last season, it's doubtful that either of them have been ridden this hard.

Most of the guys you listed are veteran horses.

I suspect Harang will be more well equipped to handle this kind of load as his career progresses. Arroyo, on the other hand needs to be reigned in a bit in order to be more effective.

[flyer85]

What's your plan?sent up RA

[Cyclone792]

Cyclone, tell your statistics to shut-up.


:bang: :yikes:

Let's have even more fun and simply combine the two ...

Arroyo/Harang combined Pre ASB: 3.68 DIPS ERA
Arroyo/Harang combined Post ASB: 4.66 DIPS ERA

Basically a full run increase in DIPS ERA out of our two horses at the top of the rotation. That's bad for business, very bad for business.

[reds44]

.377 OBP in August.

.394 OBP since ASB.

The guy has ONE crummy day at the plate and you want to bench him. Unreal.
Did I say I want to bench him? I said I still don't think he can play everyday. That's it.

[GridironGrace]

Eckstien 1-2 1 out

Called STrike
Ball
Foul
Foul
Foul

Eck grounds out to SS 2 Down

Duncan up



Phillies win 11-4
Brewers win 6-3

[Heath]

If you can pitch well and keep the ball down, you can succeed at GABP.


Pitching well and keeping the ball down at GABP is like telling the arsonist that he could do a pretty good job with using matches and kerosene.

I don't know if there is a GB pitcher in the FA market this year. And, I don't think we need another Milton on the team.

[GridironGrace]

so no one wants to do PBP try and change the Reds luck for 2nite?

[Falls City Beer]

Did I say I want to bench him? I said I still don't think he can play everyday. That's it.

That .394 OBP since the ASB comprises a span in which Freel has played basically every day.

[GridironGrace]

Duncan: 1-3 HR K 2 outs 0 on

Ball
Called Strike

Duncan Singles past Hatte.. phillips cant make play in time

1 on 2 outs Puljos batting :(

[Falls City Beer]

Where can we get us a Chris Duncan?

[Heath]

Let's have even more fun and simply combine the two ...

Arroyo/Harang combined Pre ASB: 3.68 DIPS ERA
Arroyo/Harang combined Post ASB: 4.66 DIPS ERA

Basically a full run increase in DIPS ERA out of our two horses at the top of the rotation. That's bad for business, very bad for business.

I'm voting we send you to every Reds game from here on out. A .647 winning percentage is nothing to sneeze at. To heck with the stats, we just need Cyclone at the game everytime.

[Cedric]

Pitching well and keeping the ball down at GABP is like telling the arsonist that he could do a pretty good job with using matches and kerosene.

I don't know if there is a GB pitcher in the FA market this year. And, I don't think we need another Milton on the team.

Sadly I have more faith in Milton than anyone else on this roster right now. He's not worth the money and he's still not a good pitcher, but if he keeps the ball in the yard he's good enough.

Harang and Arroyo are toast for this year.

[reds44]

That .394 OBP since the ASB comprises a span in which Freel has played basically every day.
If he is hitting .222 the OBP will come down.

[Heath]

Where can we get us a Chris Duncan?

Have your dad be a coach on the same team. Just like Little League.

[GridironGrace]

Puljos: 2-3 2B R Duncan on 1st, 2 outs

Coacing visit to mound

Called Strike
Ball

Puljos- Singles on Ground ball to CF

Duncan to 2B

2 on 2 outs

Taguchi up

[Falls City Beer]

If he is hitting .222 the OBP will come down.

It has. For August it's .377, which is amazing considering his BA. Add in his defense, and you're basically saying bench the Reds' MVP three days out of the week.

[Matt700wlw]

Unfortnately Carpenter has looked like the Cy Young winner of last year tonight.

That's not good news for any opposing team

[George Foster]

Playing the Cards on a 3 game losing streak with Carpenter pitching after losing twice to the Reds so far this season.....not a good combination.

[Heath]

So Taguchi translated from Japanese is - Bill Hall in a Cardinals Uniform

[GridironGrace]

TAguchi: Sac Bunt 2 outs 2 on

Ball

Taguchi Flies out Deep to CF Griffey

Inning over

Heading to the 7th, Still down 5-0 and in need of some series help in the run column

[Edskin]

Harang and Arroyo are THE reason I don't think we really have a shot at the post-season. I agree that both are toast-- and I'm not discounted the number of pitches they've thrown as a possible cause-- however, I do think it's also a bit of a convinient excuse to not place any blame on the pitchers themselves.

[GridironGrace]

We so need the middle of our lineup to do some damage here.. and hope that by some act of gawd our 789 can help a bit and get us an extra run here.



lets gooooooooooooooooooo get those BATS doing SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!

[Falls City Beer]

Harang and Arroyo are THE reason I don't think we really have a shot at the post-season. I agree that both are toast-- and I'm not discounted the number of pitches they've thrown as a possible cause-- however, I do think it's also a bit of a convinient excuse to not place any blame on the pitchers themselves.

It could be in part a regression for both pitchers, but as Cyclone has pointed out, it's been an out and out collapse for both of them. That sends up the red flags.

[GridironGrace]

Griffey:

Singles :)

[Kc61]

We so need the middle of our lineup to do some damage here.. and hope that by some act of gawd our 789 can help a bit and get us an extra run here.



lets gooooooooooooooooooo get those BATS doing SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe 7 and maybe 9. Not so sure about 8.

[reds44]

Edwin has had better nights.

[reds44]

It has. For August it's .377, which is amazing considering his BA. Add in his defense, and you're basically saying bench the Reds' MVP three days out of the week.
For the 2nd time


I have never said he should be benched.

[GridironGrace]

Edwin: 1 on 0 outs

Ball

Edwin GIDP..................cant do anything 2nite.......

2 outs Dunner up and Contender coming on ESPN

[Cedric]

It could be in part a regression for both pitchers, but as Cyclone has pointed out, it's been an out and out collapse for both of them. That sends up the red flags.

Arroyo is regression. He has not adjusted to LH's during his second tour of the league. He's just an average pitcher that was pitching in an inferior league without a DH.

[Edskin]

IMO, If you are going to lose, this is the way to do it:

The entire team looks awful. Guys are jogging, out of position, not taking good swings, etc..Harang was terrible. Carpenter was on fire.

Get it over with quick and get back at it tomorrow.

[Matt700wlw]

Did Pujols catch that?

I don't know...

[George Foster]

Harang and Arroyo are THE reason I don't think we really have a shot at the post-season. I agree that both are toast-- and I'm not discounted the number of pitches they've thrown as a possible cause-- however, I do think it's also a bit of a convinient excuse to not place any blame on the pitchers themselves.

To make the playoffs, your Studs have to produce...period. We can't rely on Havey, Ross etc. Dunn, Griffey, Harrang, Arroyo, and EE have to produce. Will they?

[Falls City Beer]

For the 2nd time


I have never said he should be benched.

Well, what does "not playing every day" imply?

[OnBaseMachine]

Cool.

Albert Pujols drops a ball but because he is Albert Pujols the ump rules it an out. I can't stand 'ol HGH.

[GridironGrace]

Dunn: 2 outs 0 on

Dunn lines out in foul terrertory on questionable call

still 5-0 and we are now in trouble.

[flyer85]

that was not a catch. When you hit the ground, wall, etc you have to come up and show control. If you drop it taking it out of glove why rolling over, that's not a catch.

[GridironGrace]

im gonna stop doing PBP see if that helps..

Ill run an update time to time with key pionts

its 5-0 mid of the 7th

[Edskin]

George-- I agree. To make the playoffs, you need the big boys to carry you there. Harang and Arroyo are flaming, and I doubt they get it back anytime soon. I think we'll hang around, but slowly dip, dip, dip.

[Heath]

that was not a catch. When you hit the ground, wall, etc you have to come up and show control. If you drop it taking it out of glove why rolling over, that's not a catch.

but its Sir Albert and his Amazing Techincolor First Baseman's Mitt For Color-Blind People - so, yes it's an out.

[Cedric]

George-- I agree. To make the playoffs, you need the big boys to carry you there. Harang and Arroyo are flaming, and I doubt they get it back anytime soon. I think we'll hang around, but slowly dip, dip, dip.

Our biggest guy isn't fading. Milton that is.

[George Foster]

they will take the extra base on Jr. every time...

[GridironGrace]

Rolen Doubles off Franklen

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[reds44]

Well, what does "not playing every day" imply?
I said I don't think he can play everyday.

With the talent this team has in the outfield (or lack there of), there is no doubt he should be playing everyday.

[Matt700wlw]

George-- I agree. To make the playoffs, you need the big boys to carry you there. Harang and Arroyo are flaming, and I doubt they get it back anytime soon. I think we'll hang around, but slowly dip, dip, dip.

I've been hearing this since June/July (not by you neccessarily)....so I'm in "wait-and-see" mode.

[Joseph]

I will officially not post in another game thread prior to the start of a game again.

[Falls City Beer]

Our biggest guy isn't fading. Milton that is.

And notice that Milton has had the benefit all season of not pitching beyond the 6th most nights.

[Heath]

I will officially not post in another game thread prior to the start of a game again.

I think you're avatar needs to go to the Black Album, IMO.

[Cedric]

And notice that Milton has had the benefit all season of not pitching beyond the 6th most nights.

His early suckitude helped.

I can't blame anyone honestly. We wouldn't have been in contention if we hadn't rode Harang earlier.

Arroyo isn't worn out at all, he's a rubber arm type. He just wasn't near good as he showed.

[George Foster]

I've been hearing this since June/July (not by you neccessarily)....so I'm in "wait-and-see" mode.

Ross, Hatty, Lohse, and Franklin will not carry this team to the playoffs. It will take our studs......

[GridironGrace]

Encarnacion: 1 on 0 outs

Foul
Foul
Ball
Foul
Ball
Balll Full Count
Foul( this is gonna hurt)
Foul


Encarnacion flies out to freel 1 down rolen on 2b

[GridironGrace]

Ronnie "the killer" Belliard: 1 out 1 on

INTENT BALL

INTENT WALK

2 on

[REDREAD]

Unless it's a Free Agent.

I don't know who is a Free Agent, or what kind of money they will command.
.

Zito and Jason Schmidt are the only two potential ace pitchers that I am aware of this winter, but I could be forgetting someone. It's going to be very stiff competition to get one of them signed, but I hope the Reds pull it off.

[Matt700wlw]

Ross, Hatty, Lohse, and Franklin will not carry this team to the playoffs. It will take our studs......

That's probably right, but NOBODY was supposed to carry this team to the playoffs, and they're on the cusp...

It's been a strange/fun/frustrating year all at once.

[GridironGrace]

just cant quit doing pbp on u guys

[Falls City Beer]

His early suckitude helped.

I can't blame anyone honestly. We wouldn't have been in contention if we hadn't rode Harang earlier.

Arroyo isn't worn out at all, he's a rubber arm type. He just wasn't near good as he showed.


Do you think Kerry Wood or Mark Prior were victimized by high pitch counts?

99% of all managers know better than to push their pitchers past 120 pitches. Narron and guys like Dusty Baker throw that book out the window. They're the only two active managers who do it routinely.

And notice the health/efficacy of their starters.

[George Foster]

Our big bats headed to the plate..

[GridironGrace]

Molina: 1 out 2 on

first pitch

Molina GIDP...........finally something good.


headed to the 8th...............lets atleast do something guys!!!

get a few runs make this intresting.

[Edskin]

Matt- they aren't "on the cusp" yet. If the standings are this way this time NEXT month, THEN they are on the cusp.

[Edskin]

Cards announcers take another shot:

"They had half price tickets and dogs last week in Cincy, but no need to do that here in St. Louis. Another packed house."

[Cedric]

Do you think Kerry Wood or Mark Prior were victimized by high pitch counts?

99% of all managers know better than to push their pitchers past 120 pitches. Narron and guys like Dusty Baker throw that book out the window. They're the only two active managers who do it routinely.

And notice the health/efficacy of their starters.

Harang has an easy motion and our bullpen was horrendous earlier this year. I can at least understand the rationale of Narron when he kept Harang in longer.

I don't agree with the decisions he made earlier in the year, but I can see how they were made.

I also didn't see Harang or Arroyo throwing 130 pitches many times this year. That happened?

[Matt700wlw]

Matt- they aren't "on the cusp" yet. If the standings are this way this time NEXT month, THEN they are on the cusp.

Maybe "cusp" wasn't the right word...

They're in the thick of a pennant race, which is more than ANYBODY on Earth thought they'd be.

[OldXOhio]

Cards announcers take another shot:

"They had half price tickets and dogs last week in Cincy, but no need to do that here in St. Louis. Another packed house."

Cards announcers are right.

[GridironGrace]

Phillips:

Swinging Strike
Ball
Foul
Ball 2-2


wooooowhoooooooo lead off hit.....

Singe to CF

[GullyFoyle]

Come on bottom of the order...

prove us all wrong...

[Edskin]

Matt-- Sure they are. And I'm happy about it. Enjoying it quite a bit. But IMO, by this time next month we'll be 5-6 out in the Central and we'll have fallen a few games out in the WC. Just my opinion.

[flyer85]

Clayton hacking at balls

[Matt700wlw]

Matt-- Sure they are. And I'm happy about it. Enjoying it quite a bit. But IMO, by this time next month we'll be 5-6 out in the Central and we'll have fallen a few games out in the WC. Just my opinion.

If it happens, it was a hell of a ride, and I'll be focusing all my attention to the Bengals.

This team has shown me that they really aren't that far away from being a yearly contender, if they do it right, regardless how the next month turns out.

They've made more progress in Krivsky's/Casellini's short tenure than they did in all of DanO's/Lindner's tenure....hell, we can throw Bowden in there too because we don't like him. :)

[Wheelhouse]

Clayton=overmatched

[GridironGrace]

Clayton: 1 on 0 outs

Swinging Strike
Swinging Strike
Ball
Ball 2-2
...............carp up to 86 pitches


Clayton K's 1 down 1 on

praying for ross

[flyer85]

never threw a strike to clayton in that AB

[flyer85]

Clayton=overmatched
:shocked:

[OldXOhio]

If it happens, it was a hell of a ride, and I'll be focusing all my attention to the Bengals.

This team has shown me that they really aren't that far away from being a yearly contender, if they do it right, regardless how the next month turns out.

I think they've shown they can now be competitive, albeit this year in a weak NL.

[GridironGrace]

yesssssssssssss...........

Hollansworth in for Larue batting 8th

[Edskin]

Matt- I've defending Narron and especially Wayne all year. I like what the new GM is doing. However, I am in "wait and see" mode this off-season. I see a ton of holes throughout the organization and despite our relative success this year, I could see a regression if we don't address some key issues.

[GridironGrace]

Hollandsworth: 1 on 1 out

Ball
Foul
Called Strike


dang.... Stirke outs....

2 down phillips still stuck on 1st

[Matt700wlw]

Matt- I've defending Narron and especially Wayne all year. I like what the new GM is doing. However, I am in "wait and see" mode this off-season. I see a ton of holes throughout the organization and despite our relative success this year, I could see a regression if we don't address some key issues.

This winter will say a lot.

[GridironGrace]

Valentin in to bat for Franklin

[flyer85]

I see a ton of holes throughout the organization and despite our relative success this year, I could see a regression if we don't address some key issues.darn likely is a more apt description

[George Foster]

Could Hollingsworth be any better at the plate?

[Edskin]

Hey, tip your cap, Carpenter is dealing tonight. Excellent outing. We didn't stand a chance.

[flyer85]

probably the biggest game of the year to this point and the Reds haven't even sniffed a run

[Matt700wlw]

Hey, tip your cap, Carpenter is dealing tonight. Excellent outing. We didn't stand a chance.

When he's got it...he's got it.

I don't think the Reds will dwell on it for long....they never seem to.

[Cedric]

probably the biggest game of the year to this point and the Reds haven't even sniffed a run

Clayton and Larue playing hurt, but let's tip our cap to Carpenter also.

[OldXOhio]

Hey, tip your cap, Carpenter is dealing tonight. Excellent outing. We didn't stand a chance.

No offense Ed, but I really hate that excuse. Carpenter is pitching well tonight no doubt. However, the reason we've only got 4 hits is because we're embarrassingly flat for such a big series.

[GridironGrace]

Valentin: 1 on 2 outs

Called Strike
Foul
Ball
.........95th pitch is a ball
Foul


Valentin grounds out to 2B

5-0 Cards headed to the bot of the 8th

[Matt700wlw]

probably the biggest game of the year to this point and the Reds haven't even sniffed a run

1 game doesn't make a series, but it magnifies the importance of the next 2 games even more.

[flyer85]

Clayton and Larue playing hurt, but let's tip our cap to Carpenter also.for the most part there has been a lot of hacking at balls tonight

[Falls City Beer]

probably the biggest game of the year to this point and the Reds haven't even sniffed a run

Though, technically, the Reds split the series last week, the Cards out-everything-ed the Reds in that series. Basically just one bad Izzy pitch shy of a certain 3-1 series win. The tide has definitely turned in this season series toward the Cards. They are playoff-hardened, and in it for the long haul. Reds have no depth and are just falling off their own cliff.

[GridironGrace]

all i know is we better take game 2 and 3...

We gotta shwo the Cards we are heere to stay or thier gonna gain momentum and this race will be over

[George Foster]

When he's got it...he's got it.

I don't think the Reds will dwell on it for long....they never seem to.

I guess the good news is besides Duncan, no one really hit the ball that hard for the cards.... Lets hope they won't come alive tomorrow. My over and under for hits remember was 6...how did you bet?

[Cedric]

for the most part there has been a lot of hacking at balls tonight

Which is part of pitching I thought. Unless Carpenter is supposed to just throw fastballs down the middle.

He won the cy young award last year and is probably extremely pissed about his performance last week.

[GridironGrace]

Shackelford into pitch

[flyer85]

Which is part of pitching I thought. Unless Carpenter is supposed to just throw fastballs down the middle.patient hitters take those and wait for strikes. I'm not talking about expanding the zone with two strikes.

[GridironGrace]

Carpenter stays in(duh)

Foul

Carp Grounds out to 3B

1 Down

[Matt700wlw]

St. Louis is up there on my list with the Steelers.

Unless somehow them winning (maybe late in the year if the Reds are a game or two out of the wildcard but not eligible for the division, and are playing the WC team ahead of the Reds), I cannot and will not ever root for them to win.

[GridironGrace]

Eckstien: 0 on 1 out

Ball
Ball
Called Strike
Ball

Eckstien walks on 5 pitches

[OnBaseMachine]

Cards announcers take another shot:

"They had half price tickets and dogs last week in Cincy, but no need to do that here in St. Louis. Another packed house."

Doesn't surprise me. St. Louis fans/announcers/coaches/players are always classless.

[George Foster]

Astros beating the Cubs by one run in the 8th. rockies and Diamondbacks tied 1-1 in 6th

[REDREAD]

all i know is we better take game 2 and 3...

We gotta shwo the Cards we are heere to stay or thier gonna gain momentum and this race will be over

After tonight, I hope we split the remaining two games. That will keep us close.

[flyer85]

Shack against Pujols ... that could be ugly

[Matt700wlw]

After tonight, I hope we split the remaining two games. That will keep us close.

Even a sweep keeps them close, but not winning 2 out of 3 would be another opportunity not taken advantage of...

I'd love to leave St. Louis .5 game out....

[GullyFoyle]

The Card announcers think Narron has a quick hook.. lol

[alloverjr]

Doesn't surprise me. St. Louis fans/announcers/coaches/players are always classless.

Why is that classless? The Cards pack their stadium, the Reds don't. A few seasons of wins will change that.

[GridironGrace]

Duncan: 1 on 1 out

Called Strike (contender fight getting ready to start)
Ball(Ebo Elder-yellow team vs Mike Evart blue team)
Ball
Foul(Ebo gonna win a very very good fight)
Ball Full Count ( After the commercial its Fight Night)


Duncan Singles to RF Eckstien to 2B

[REDREAD]

Even a sweep keeps them close, but not winning 2 out of 3 would be another opportunity not taken advantage of...

I agree. I wanted to win two out of three in this series.
I think it's a tall order to win both of the remaining games, but I certainly won't complain if the Reds pull it off.

A sweep by the Cards helps the other WC teams too much.. I'd like to avoid that.

[Matt700wlw]

A sweep by the Cards helps the other WC teams too much.. I'd like to avoid that.

Yeah, that would hurt.

[GridironGrace]

Puljos: Getting ready to end this 2 on 1 out

Ball(Ebo is Confident, Great fight coming turn on ESPN)


phew got him out.. great job Shackelford

Puljos pops out to Phillips

2 down 2 on.. Taguchi batting

[OldXOhio]

Recent history has taught the Cardinals announcers to never count the Astros out. Apparently, the fans see it the same way. Tonight's poll on FSN MW had Cards faithful rank the most important series for STL the rest of the way. Winner: Cards upcoming series at Minute Maid.

[CTA513]

Cards announcers take another shot:

"They had half price tickets and dogs last week in Cincy, but no need to do that here in St. Louis. Another packed house."


Cardinals fans packed the stadium again... and the owners show their appreciation by doing very little to to improve the teams pitching and hitting during the trading deadline.

:evil:

[George Foster]

Why is that classless? The Cards pack their stadium, the Reds don't. A few seasons of wins will change that.

It's classless to point it out. Like my team has new uniforms and yours doesen't... to point out the obvious is not very classy.

[reds44]

That was a helluva play.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice play.

[GridironGrace]

Taguchi

Ball ( sorry mike stewart not evart... duh)
Foul ( pre fight in the locker room... announcer on)
Foul ( 5 Rounds of Welterwieght boxing ACTION..)

Taguchi Grounds out to 3B

22-2 14 KO's EBO Elder vs. 38-4 22 KO's Mike Stewart up after the commmercial.. dont miss it

[OldXOhio]

We'd be saying the same thing if we filled the GAB the way Busch regularly is. I applaud Cast for making the effort, yet I'm still surprised it would take that to draw a full house to watch a team in the heart of a penant race.

[Falls City Beer]

Cardinals fans packed the stadium again... and the owners show their appreciation by doing very little to to improve the teams pitching and hitting during the trading deadline.

:evil:

Again, winning means everything.

But it is a referendum on the new FO that their flurry of moves in July haven't improved the Reds' standing in the league one bit.

The Cards did nothing and yet continue to perform at about the same level, too.

[GridironGrace]

Last chance to do some damage.....

[George Foster]

Nice play.

Hatty has to hold his breath everytime the ball is hit to EE. that was a great play...

[GridironGrace]

Freel AB

Carpentar still in 98 pitches

and a first pitch ground out to 3B by freel

1 out

[George Foster]

There bullpen will be quite rested

[OldXOhio]

Again, winning means everything.

But it is a referendum on the new FO that their flurry of moves in July haven't improved the Reds' standing in the league one bit.

The Cards did nothing and yet continue to perform at about the same level, too.

The Cards just got swept in PIT. How is that performing at the same level?

And let's not act like Jocketty decided there was no need to make any moves. My guess is things just didn't work out the way he may have liked come the deadline.

[GridironGrace]

Hatte: 0 on 1 out

Ball
Called Strike
Called STrike
Ball (Fight starting) DING DING DING Who's watchin?

Hatte Strikes out.. 2 outs.. Jr batting

[edabbs44]

Again, winning means everything.

But it is a referendum on the new FO that their flurry of moves in July haven't improved the Reds' standing in the league one bit.

The Cards did nothing and yet continue to perform at about the same level, too.
If I were Bob I wouldn't be happy about the fan response to this pennant race. Having to have reduced prices for last week's St Louis series was embarrassing.

[George Foster]

2 hr and 25 min game so far...

[flyer85]

Jr swings at a ball on a 2-0 count

[GridironGrace]

Griffey 2 outs 0 on

Ball( Round 1 underway.. both lookin good)
Ball (Ebo taking control :) )
Swinging Strike


Griffey grounds out to carpenter(fitting)

Ebo takes round 1

[Cyclone792]

Edwin's play last inning was a classic case of why using errors to determine fielding prowess is pretty useless.

If Aurilia is playing third base, that ball is a double.

If Castro is playing third base, that ball is a double.

If Edwin snares it and throws it away, it's a single and a throwing error on Edwin, with the runner ending up on second.

In the three above scenarios, only Edwin would be charged with an error, but the end result would be the same with the hitter advancing to second base. Of course, with Edwin at third base, you have the chance that he snares the ball but holds the batter to an infield single, OR you have the chance that he snares the ball and throws him out, which he just did.

[GullyFoyle]

They'll get'em tomorrow...

Night all

[reds44]

With Carpenter on the mound the chances of winning weren't really good. I said Arroyo and Loshe would get W's and we would win 2 of 3.

Hopefully I am right.

[Wheelhouse]

What a non-event. I hope Dunn got the rest he was looking for...

[GridironGrace]

Carpenter just on 2nite........... i goto 1-1 doign pbp.. thanks for the previledge guys i enjoyed it...

So who's watching the fight on Conenter????? ESPN

Mike Coming back strong in round 2 so far..

LETS GO YELLOW TEAM!!! EBooooooooooo EBoooooooo

[George Foster]

We did not really "show up" either only 400 and some change worth of posts:D

[Matt700wlw]

Well, that was......quick.

[GridironGrace]

Tight round 2........

I score the fight after 2 rounds
20-19 in favor of EBO

[TheBigLebowski]

Disgusting, disgusting effort.

The Reds are and will continue to be a gigantic tease.

I am not looking forward to the remainder of this series.

Hell - start Michalak tomorrow. At least he'll go after hitters, and we know he wants it.

[GridironGrace]

Thanks to the two peeps who signed up on the Lair using my referral
And thanks to the 2 peeps who hooked me up with some rep.. its appreciated

[CTA513]

If I were Bob I wouldn't be happy about the fan response to this pennant race. Having to have reduced prices for last week's St Louis series was embarrassing.

I would be more embarrassed about trading for damaged goods.

[VR]

I'm sticking with the Hatte's mantra to stay in the hunt. Mental toughness. How'd we do tonight?

[OldXOhio]

Disgusting, disgusting effort.

The Reds are and will continue to be a gigantic tease.

I am not looking forward to the remainder of this series.

Hell - start Michalak tomorrow. At least he'll go after hitters, and we know he wants it.

Can't understand how they come out that flat, yet they did. Sure some of it had to do w/ Carpenter, but even the Cards announcers have said that while Carpenter did a good job getting ahead in counts, he didn't necessarily have his best stuff tonight...wasn't snapping off the deuce as well as they've seen from him in the past. We simply went thru the motions tonight.

[GridironGrace]

EBO takes control in teh Contender Fight

Possibly has won all 3 rounds so far.

I score it 30-28 (2-0-1)

[George Foster]

Lidge gives up lead in the ninth....tied no outs...:laugh:

[GridironGrace]

Wow.. Mike lands one.. EBO losing his legs in the 4th.

EBO continues on... trying to hang on.......

EBO GOES DOWN... mike waits for the big shot and gets it..

EBO up at 9.........REF Calls it OMG!!!!!!!!!! EBO NOOOOOOOO


Mike Scores a KO Blue team wins again :(

[OldXOhio]

Lidge being lifted again in the 9th.

Any chance the guy will be wearing an Astros uni next season?

[traderumor]

Carpenter was indeed on. He had a lot of movement on his fastball and really did not need to drop in the curves much. All the weak duds off the wrists told me all I need to know. I think one should be inclined to say the other team's ace shut down our bats. But then it seems giving credit to the opponent is in short supply.

[Matt700wlw]

Carpenter was indeed on. He had a lot of movement on his fastball and really did not need to drop in the curves much. All the weak duds off the wrists told me all I need to know. I think one should be inclined to say the other team's ace shut down our bats. But then it seems giving credit to the opponent is in short supply.

It's hard when it's your team that got shut out...but Carpenter was quite good tonight.

[George Foster]

Lidge being lifted again in the 9th.

Any chance the guy will be wearing an Astros uni next season?

0 chance

2 on....1 out for the Cubs,....go Cubs!

[George Foster]

Giants beating the Padres 2-0 in 3rd.:thumbup:

[OldXOhio]

But then it seems giving credit to the opponent is in short supply.

Not at all. If you had a guys on here claiming Carpenter was lucky or the ump gave him too much of the plate, then I'd understand your comment. I just don't buy that he was so on that we could only muster four hits. You said you could see it from the outset that he was on? Maybe so, but it was pretty obvious from the beginning that we weren't.

[Ron Madden]

I said at the time that the Ronnie Belliard deal would somehow kill the Reds. The guy is a terrible hack but somehow Reds pitching or advance scouts never learned. The guy has gotten two great pitches to hit tonight and that just can't happen when Carpenter is pitching and Molina is behind him.

For a manager that talks about doing all the little things it's quite pathetic how his team does none of them right.

Yeah, Narron always says he hates to give away outs.

He can't be dumb enough to believe that only errors give the other team extra outs... can he?

[Ron Madden]

Unless it's a Free Agent.

I don't know who is a Free Agent, or what kind of money they will command.


Harang has been one of the better pitchers in the NL this season, he's just struggling right now, and he's probably tired.... I'd be more than happy to have him high in this rotation next season.

Narron's biggest flaw has been managing

Fixed, ;)

[traderumor]

Not at all. If you had a guys on here claiming Carpenter was lucky or the ump gave him too much of the plate, then I'd understand your comment. I just don't buy that he was so on that we could only muster four hits. You said you could see it from the outset that he was on? Maybe so, but it was pretty obvious from the beginning that we weren't.No, I did not say from the outset. But it seems that the common theme for a game like last night is "geesh, they're flat." Maybe so, but Carpenter isn't some one game wonder out there the Reds haven't seen.

Sometimes, I know this may seem shocking, but shutouts occur because the other pitcher is better than the hitters on that particular night. Of course, I'd say the evidence of only a few hard hit balls all night and a lot of squibbers hit off the hands, and called third strikes gives credit to the pitcher, but if attributing it to lack of effort from the Reds, I'm sure not going to stop you.

[flyer85]

can there be any explanantion for who was in the lineup last night? At this point Larue has to be considered a lost cause for the season. Why would you play both Larue and Clayton on a night where it was likely going to be tough to score ?

AAAARRRGGGGHHH.

[OldXOhio]

But it seems that the common theme for a game like last night is "geesh, they're flat." Maybe so, but Carpenter isn't some one game wonder out there the Reds haven't seen.

Again, I have yet to see anyone mention that Carpenter wasn't on. But as you acknowledged, it was probably a combination of both that led to the offenseive ineptitude last night.


but if attributing it to lack of effort from the Reds, I'm sure not going to stop you.

Whew thanks - and here I was afraid you were going to try and censor me.

[membengal]

Just not the Reds' night, no matter how you slice it.

Still can pick up wins the next two nights and we will all be flying.

[cumberlandreds]

The Reds have rebounded from tough or poor losses all year. I expect them to tonight. Really need a big game from Arroyo to say the least.

[Roy Tucker]

Watching the game on TV, Carpenter looked razor-sharp to me. The Reds tried to work him, but his control was on for all of his pitches. He was continually ahead in the count and just had a great night. I didn't think the Reds looked flat, they just couldn't get started against him.

Carpenter soon learned that the ump was giving him an extra inch or two inside to LH batters and he used that to full advantage. When you see Hatteberg complain, you know something is afoot. Hat has a great eye at the plate. Drove me nuts to see Molina set up outside the strike zone, Carpenter hit the target, and the ump call it a strike. But we saw the Braves (Maddox, Glavine, SMoltz, et al) do that for years. Good pitchers get good calls from the umps.

[traderumor]

Again, I have yet to see anyone mention that Carpenter wasn't on. But as you acknowledged, it was probably a combination of both that led to the offenseive ineptitude last night.



Whew thanks - and here I was afraid you were going to try and censor me.Again, you are putting words in my mouth. Perhaps the Reds were "flat," whatever that means (which is really what I'm saying, that you are referring to an undefinable term with nothing other than "only four hits" to support such a contention).

This is baseball, played nearly every day for 6 months out of the year, so when folks use that explanation whenever the bats have an off night, I'd like to think that there might be other explanations for what we observe in such contests. Last night seems to be one of those nights. That is all I am saying. Not to mention that there were some dandy defensive plays turned in by the Reds, which again is contrary evidence to "flat." I think the better description would be one bad inning by Harang and Carpenter pitched a dandy. Let's lace 'em up and go get it done today and tomorrow.

[MWM]

Last night was all Chris Carpenter. It was a superb pitching performance from a superb pitcher. When that happens, you just tip your cap and hope to get them tomorrow. That's all you can do. There isn't an offense in baseball that would have fared very well against him last night. Why does it always have to be Reds' ineptitude? If Carpenter was on and they could only muster 4 hits, then it must have been because Carpenter was on. It's really that simple.

[westofyou]

Why does it always have to be Reds' ineptitude?

It's the RZ way... the game is played in a vaccum and the only sucking that ever occurs is the Reds. The opponent never gets credit for their talent.

[SteelSD]

It's the RZ way... the game is played in a vaccum and the only sucking that ever occurs is the Reds. The opponent never gets credit for their talent.

Yes, that and because there tends to be the perception of a strong causality link between effort and result. When things go well, it's because of effort. When things go badly, it's because the effort is lacking. Problem is that baseball is so darned complex that a team can give 110% every single night and still lose on a regular basis.

[Tony Cloninger]

Where people complaining on the net back in the 60's when Gibson or Koufax....or even Bob Veal and Jim Bunning (closest comparison i can think of to Carpenter)......shut down the Reds?

They were probably blaming a "lazy" Frank Robinson and asking why he has not been traded yet. ;)

[VR]

Yes, that and because there tends to be the perception of a strong causality link between effort and result. When things go well, it's because of effort. When things go badly, it's because the effort is lacking. Problem is that baseball is so darned complex that a team can give 110% every single night and still lose on a regular basis.

Exactly.

And they could give 80% every single night and still win on a regular basis. I like the teams or players that give 100% in hopes of affecting the outcome of a handful of games. The fans in Cincy do as well.