08/17/06: Redlegs @ Redbirds Game Thread ... 2 of 3 baby!

[BoCcc2832]

1. R Freel, RF .290 7 24 27
2. S Hatteberg, 1B .320 11 38 1
3. K Griffey Jr., CF .243 24 65 0
4. E Encarnacion, 3B .302 13 59 1
5. A Dunn, LF .252 36 82 5
6. R Aurilia, SS .283 17 46 1
7. B Phillips, 2B .289 11 57 21
8. D Ross, C .274 14 35 0
9. K Lohse, P .000 0 0 0

Name AVG HR RBI SB
1. D Eckstein, SS .291 1 21 7
2. C Duncan, LF .327 11 25 0
3. A Pujols, 1B .329 35 94 5
4. S Rolen, 3B .318 16 73 6
5. J Encarnacion, RF .278 16 63 4
6. R Belliard, 2B .255 0 5 0
7. S Taguchi, CF .273 2 30 8
8. Y Molina, C .217 4 41 0
9. J Weaver, P .100 0 0 0

Starting Pitcher
K Lohse 0 0 2.92 1.22 16

Starting Pitcher
J Weaver 2 3 6.60 1.97 15

[MississippiRed]

There's that good lineup again. Looks like Narron really wants to win this one. I say that Lohse gets his first win as a Red today.

[GOREDSGO32]

Did I miss something? Is the game at 8 today?

[bebo03]

No it starts in 15 min

[Redleg39]

Is it on TV, because a friend told me it is no televised

[redssouth]

In related Reds Wildcard news... the Phils are losing 4-0 to the Mets.

[bebo03]

I do not know Im in Virginia at work with the game om XM ch 187.

[UKAlum97]

In related Reds Wildcard news... the Phils are losing 4-0 to the Mets.

Correction: In related CARDINAL Wildcard news . . . the Phils are losing 4-0.

:thumbup:

[11larkin11]

Yea, its not on FSN

[redssouth]

Correction: In related CARDINAL Wildcard news . . . the Phils are losing 4-0.

:thumbup:

I like the way you think!!! :beerme:

[GOREDSGO32]

Lucky I checked or I would have missed listening to the game.

[Danny Serafini]

Low and away for ball 1 and we're underway!

[jesusfan]

Freel flies to left on the 3-1 pitch... 1 down

[BoCcc2832]

Hatteberg has not gone hitless in three straight games all year...so basically he's due today...

[jesusfan]

Hatteberg flies to center... 2 down

[redssouth]

Forgive my ignorance... anywhere to listen to the game online?

[jesusfan]

Forgive my ignorance... anywhere to listen to the game online?

yeah me... go to athensi.com click on wath am on the side...

[jesusfan]

Griffey hits one deep, but just foul!

[jesusfan]

Good AB for Griffey.. 3-2 count and grounds to short... 1-2-3 first

[keeganbrick]

I really hope Narron sticks to this lineup 85% of the time now.

[BoCcc2832]

We better not make Weaver look good again...he has a 6.37 ERA for a reason...

[mound_patrol]

They can say the same thing about lohse and his 6.39 era

[keeganbrick]

Lohse is the man:cool:

PS - Lohse's ERA with the Reds is under 3.00

[BoCcc2832]

Duncan scares me...

[jesusfan]

Eckstein pops to Eddie...

[jesusfan]

Duncan continues his tear... single into right...

[Danny Serafini]

I'm really beginning to hate Chris Duncan. He's becoming one of those Bill Hall types that inexplicably beats up on the Reds.

[BoCcc2832]

Almost a DP

[jesusfan]

Pujols grounds to Eddie... and once again Phillips can't get it out of his glove... he's done that about 10 times in the last week!

[goreds2]

Pujols grounds to Eddie... and once again Phillips can't get it out of his glove... he's done that about 10 times in the last week!

Phillips needs to have the smaller glove like Joe Morgan used to wear.

[jesusfan]

Rolen walks... 1st and 2nd with Encarnacion up.... shew 1st inning trouble again...

[jesusfan]

Encarnacion flies to JR... Eddie, Dunn, Rich due up!

[BoCcc2832]

Lohse would rather pitch to Encarnacion, anyway...he's an easier out

[jesusfan]

Edwin grounds to Belliard on a bang-bang play.. 1 down

[ITHIKABAND]

Heya BoCcc2832 you firmiliar with GZ Pete's/Old town tavern in Springfield?

[GOREDSGO32]

Alright, comeon .. we need to work Weaver and get some runs.

[jesusfan]

Dunn flies to Encarnacion... 2 down

[BoCcc2832]

I know of it and where it is, but not familiar with it, not really

[jesusfan]

well... Weaver so far so good... Rich pops to Yadi... 1-2-3 again...

[cincrazy]

I'm sorry, but Joe and Steve don't have the greatest chemistry together. Twice already I thought we had home runs, with Griffey and Dunn. Maybe I'm just too used to watching it on tv at this point, but twice they got me all excited for no reason. Disappointing! They said that Encarnacion was "looking up into the stands," then immediately after that the ball lands in his glove.

[BoCcc2832]

hey cincrazy, why aren't you on AIM?

[ITHIKABAND]

I know of it and where it is, but not familiar with it, not really
We'll be there tomorrow night good place for live music. We play there every other month. check it out sometime its a good venue..

[jesusfan]

Belliard grounds to Aurilia... 1 down

[ITHIKABAND]

Lohse needs to keep that pitch count down so he can go more than 6

[BoCcc2832]

We'll be there tomorrow night good place for live music. We play there every other month. check it out sometime its a good venue..

What kind of music do you play?

[jesusfan]

So Taguchi flies to Griffey.. 2 down

[jesusfan]

Molina grounds to Phillips on the 1st pitch.. quick work there...

[BoCcc2832]

Lohse needs to keep that pitch count down so he can go more than 6

There you go...29 pitches in 2 innings and only 7 that inning

[jesusfan]

Phillips flies to deep right center... 1 down

[ITHIKABAND]

What kind of music do you play?

Rock covers from the 80's to now mostly new rock though. We also play our own tunes which are on myspace.com

heres a link http://www.ithikaband.com
http://www.myspace.com/ithika

[jesusfan]

Nuxy saying Weaver looks like Cy Young against the Red's... wow

[jesusfan]

Ross grounds to Rolen... Lohse up trying to break up 3 straight 1-2-3's by the great Weaver!

[ITHIKABAND]

Naron stressed that he wanted to see lohse go longer. hopefully we get that today..

[Stamford]

You tell me which 7/8 combo gives you a good feeling heading between innings and which one makes you wretch:

Phillips/Ross
Clayton/LaRue

My goodness. Two singles, Lohse bunts them over...top of the order knocks 'em in. I'd like to order that up pronto. :)

[jesusfan]

well.. Lohse grounds to Rolen... 6 pitches 3 outs...

[Stamford]

Oops. I was a little behind there. The Dream Weaver keeps on dealin' apparently against the inept boys in Red. UGH.

[ITHIKABAND]

Give it time this line up will prevail

[BoCcc2832]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6m5tdXzluQ

This is a music video about the Reds...watch it between innings...it is slightly old though as it still has Kearns and Lopez in it

[jesusfan]

Weaver K's.. 1 down

[BoCcc2832]

Hey Ithika, I like what i'm hearing

[jesusfan]

Eckstein K's... must have good stuff to K Eck... Duncan due up

[jesusfan]

Duncan bangs a single into right... he's killing the Reds...

[jesusfan]

Pujols grounds to Phillips on the 1st pitch... after 3 zip-zip!

[ITHIKABAND]

43 total pitches
30 strikes
13 balls

[ITHIKABAND]

Hey Ithika, I like what i'm hearing

thanks man come out to a show sometime its always slammed

[jesusfan]

Freel grounds to Rolen... 1 down wow, this is sickening...

[Rotater Cuff]

The resurrection of Weaver. We're turning him into Matt Morris

[jesusfan]

The Red's keep getting ahead in the count.. 2-1 again

[ITHIKABAND]

Weaver is looking a bit like Cy

[jesusfan]

Hatte walks!!! our first baserunner!

[Danny Serafini]

At least the perfect game is over.

[jesusfan]

Griffey lines a single into right... 1st and 2nd with Eddie up!

[Danny Serafini]

And there goes the no hitter. Thank you!!!

[Mario-Rijo]

ANd with Jr.'s single there goes the no-no! :thumbup:

[jesusfan]

Come On Eddie!

[ITHIKABAND]

EE is up its time to point some runs on the board

[redlegs2370]

Have the Reds ever beaten Weaver? I know when he was with Detriot he beat the Reds.

[Mario-Rijo]

Weaver is 5-1 lifetime vs. Reds coming into today.

[jesusfan]

Edwin pops to Pujols... C'mon Dunn pick us up!

[redlegs2370]

Weaver is 5-1 lifetime vs. Reds coming into today.
Thanks Mario-Rigo. I knew it wasn't very good. I guess Weaver joins the ever growing list of Reds killers.

[jesusfan]

Yadi almost had Hatteberg picked at 2nd...

[jesusfan]

Dunn green light on 3-0??

[redlegs2370]

Dunn green light on 3-0??
No

[jesusfan]

3-2 to Dunner...

[jesusfan]

Dunn K's... wow great job buddy...

[jesusfan]

Rolen grounds to Edwin... good play! 1 down

[jesusfan]

Encarnacion flies to Right.. 2 down

[jesusfan]

Belly-yard single to Jr...

[BoCcc2832]

Got Him!

[jesusfan]

Ross catches Belliard stealing... Bad Call....

[Danny Serafini]

4 innings in under an hour, this game is flying by.

[BoCcc2832]

a quick game is good for me because i'm flying in three hours...and i need to hear the entire game before i go through security

[mlieb7]

typical getaway day game!

[jesusfan]

Aurilia-Phillips-Ross due up... Lets score!

[jesusfan]

RIch grounds to short.. 1 down

[BoCcc2832]

0-1-0 for the Reds...Jr. has the lone hit
0-3-0 for the Cards...Duncan with two hits and Belliard with one

[jesusfan]

BP flies to Belliard... 2 down...This is horrible!

[jesusfan]

Ross pops to Pujols... wow

[ITHIKABAND]

this may be the fastest game ever played

[Rotater Cuff]

Lohse has really pitched well the last 2 games, and has gotten no support. Feel bad for the boy.

[BoCcc2832]

Lohse has really pitched well the last 2 games, and has gotten no support. Feel bad for the boy.

Agreed...these inconsistent bats are annoying

[BoCcc2832]

Lohse = STUD

[ITHIKABAND]

Lohse is Kkkking people like a young roger clemens

[ITHIKABAND]

time to tee off on Weaver

[mound_patrol]

With that last out Lohse has lowered his season ERA to 6 even. Looks really good so far. Lets scratch a couple across here for him.

[redssouth]

Question... If you change leagues, as a hitter, your totals for the season gets reset, HR's RBI's etc.. I believe BA does as well, why not the same for a pitcher?

[Danny Serafini]

Question... If you change leagues, as a hitter, your totals for the season gets reset, HR's RBI's etc.. I believe BA does as well, why not the same for a pitcher?

They do for pitchers as well. For whatever reason though MLB Gameday uses combined stats for both hitters and pitchers who have switched leagues. Don't know why they do that though.

[Rotater Cuff]

Nobody can hit this guy. Hope we can hold off the top of the order

[keeganbrick]

This is a big inning for Lohse with the top of the lineup due up.

[mound_patrol]

Duncan is just crushing the reds hitting .519 against them.

[mound_patrol]

Guess i Jinxed him there...

[Rotater Cuff]

Struck out Duncan!

[Red Rover]

Duncan is just crushing the reds hitting .519 against them.

Not any more, after the strike out

[redssouth]

That was a big time inning for Lohse... now lets get some runs!!

[mound_patrol]

Has Baseball Tonight been giving much love to Edwin or Lohse the past couple of weeks with their strong performances?

[redssouth]

C'mon JR... lets go big fly.

[mbgrayson]

Lohse ROCKS!

[redssouth]

Lohse is only at 80 pitches... he should go until he is PH for in the next inning hopefully.

[Rotater Cuff]

griffey having a great at bat

[Rotater Cuff]

10 pitches!

[redssouth]

yep.. this AB could set the tone for a big inning. Wear Weaver down, and let EE and Dunn jump all over him.

[keeganbrick]

Griff HR!!!!!

[redssouth]

Wow!!!

[Rotater Cuff]

For his mom, on the table, on the 12th pitch, he hits it out to right field!

[Danny Serafini]

Homering on the 12th pitch of an at bat must be absolutely crushing to a pitcher.

[Razor Shines]

Taking a quick break from work....Nice to have Jr. back and hitting again.

[redssouth]

It would be huge to go 1-2-3 inning right here. We have to see Pujols one more time, but lets hope its with two outs in the 9th.

[GOREDSGO32]

Tie game again.

[Z-Fly]

It would be huge to go 1-2-3 inning right here. We have to see Pujols one more time, but lets hope its with two outs in the 9th.
Thanks for the jinx!:angry:

[redlegs2370]

I think Lohse is a 6 inning pitcher right now. Nothing wrong with that and he has pitched very well but I really think Narron should just go to the pen for innings 7-9.

[redssouth]

I dont think I jinxed it, I mean if you look a page earlier, I asked Griffey to go big fly... im pretty sure my posting has absolutely zero correlation to on field performance. :)

[jesusfan]

Belly-Yard K's... 1 down Taguchi up

[Z-Fly]

Yeah he needs to build up his arm strength. He has been mostly out of the pen this year.

[jesusfan]

Taguchi bunt attempt fouled...

[jesusfan]

1-6-3 DP!! 1-1 going to the 8th... C'mon Bats!

[Z-Fly]

+
I dont think I jinxed it, I mean if you look a page earlier, I asked Griffey to go big fly... im pretty sure my posting has absolutely zero correlation to on field performance. :)

Next time try and take my coment more seriously, would ya? :laugh:

[redssouth]

I didnt.... i threw the smiley face in on the end... dont you take my comments so seriously.. there, how about that!!!

[jesusfan]

quick 0-2 count on Phillips and he lines to left for a double!

[Rotater Cuff]

1-6-3 DP!! 1-1 going to the 9th... C'mon Bats!

To the 8th, but who's counting?

[jesusfan]

Valentin on deck...

[jesusfan]

Rolen with a nice play to get Ross at 1st... 1 down Phillips to 3rd...

[jesusfan]

Wainwright coming in to face Javy!

[redlegs2370]

anybody know what Javy is hitting against Wainwright? I'm sure LaRusa has the advantage. Hopefully Javy can come through.

[GOREDSGO32]

Great this thing is going to go extras and I'm going to miss the ending ... ****!!!!!

[jesusfan]

Javy K's... wow

[Rotater Cuff]

a righthanfer to face valentin? doesn't figure

[redlegs2370]

a righthanfer to face valentin? doesn't figure
LaRusa probably had stats to show Wainwright had good success against Javy

[redlegs2370]

Not getting the run in the 8th is going to come back and haunt the Reds.

[jesusfan]

2-2 to Freel...

[jesusfan]

Freel flies to Left... shew... tie game still

[Rotater Cuff]

and why is a power hitter like ross trying to bunt -with no chance for a double play. Ridiculous call

[mound_patrol]

i like the bunt. You had to figure Javy would put the ball in play.

[redlegs2370]

If your going to win the division and knock off the Cardinals you have to get the runner in from 3rd with less than two outs. Now the Cardinals have 6 outs to get a run compared to the Reds 3.

[RichRed]

and why is a power hitter like ross trying to bunt -with no chance for a double play. Ridiculous call

Yep, here ya go, Cards - have a free out. And in a situation where a single scores the run. Idiotic.

[keeganbrick]

and why is a power hitter like ross trying to bunt -with no chance for a double play. Ridiculous call
To get the runner to 3rd base with 1 out. It was a good bunt by the way.

[jesusfan]

Franklin in... Molina flies out.. 1 down

Timo in

[jesusfan]

Timo Flies to right... 2 down... Eckstein up

[RichRed]

i like the bunt. You had to figure Javy would put the ball in play.

You did? I didn't.

[jesusfan]

Freel with an amazing diving catch... 1-2-3... C'mon Hatte-Griff-EE!

[keeganbrick]

Sounded like Freel just made a great catch.

[mound_patrol]

Time for a 3 run inning, and Edwin to go big fly.

[wojo1025]

Yep, here ya go, Cards - have a free out. And in a situation where a single scores the run. Idiotic.


I would have him bunt EVERY SINGLE TIME in that situation. Late in the game you have a chance to get a runner to third with less than 2 outs with a fly ball hitter coming up. Why wouldn't you bunt there? If Narron had Ross swing away there and he strikes out, everyone would be saying "why didn't they try and get the runner to third". The manager (for one of the few times) did the right thing there. It just didn't work out, but that doesn't mean Ross shouldn't have bunted, he absolutely should've.

[jesusfan]

Izzy in... Let's rock him!

[keeganbrick]

I would have him bunt EVERY SINGLE TIME in that situation. Late in the game you have a chance to get a runner to third with less than 2 outs with a fly ball hitter coming up. Why wouldn't you bunt there? If Narron had Ross swing away there and he strikes out, everyone would be saying "why didn't they try and get the runner to third". The manager (for one of the few times) did the right thing there. It just didn't work out, but that doesn't mean Ross shouldn't have bunted, he absolutely should've.
I agree.
:beerme:

[jesusfan]

3-1 to Hatte...

[jesusfan]

Hatte grounds to Pujols... 1 down

[RichRed]

I would have him bunt EVERY SINGLE TIME in that situation. Late in the game you have a chance to get a runner to third with less than 2 outs with a fly ball hitter coming up. Why wouldn't you bunt there? If Narron had Ross swing away there and he strikes out, everyone would be saying "why didn't they try and get the runner to third". The manager (for one of the few times) did the right thing there. It just didn't work out, but that doesn't mean Ross shouldn't have bunted, he absolutely should've.

Unlikely. I would appreciate not giving up the automatic out. Now if it was Clayton up to bat, for example? Then, absolutely, bunt away.

And besides, bunting there means you're playing for one run. You like the odds of one run holding up with that bullpen?

[jesusfan]

C'mon Griffey!!

[Danny Serafini]

D-Backs down 7-3 in the 5th, Padres down 1-0 in the 3rd right now.

[jesusfan]

Griffey grounds to 2nd... 2 down

[keeganbrick]

Cmon EE, we need a hit here.

[keeganbrick]

Unlikely. I would appreciate not giving up the automatic out. Now if it was Clayton up to bat, for example? Then, absolutely, bunt away.

And besides, bunting there means you're playing for one run. You like the odds of one run holding up with that bullpen?
With 6 outs left to get, I would rather play for 1 run.

[Rotater Cuff]

Unlikely. I would appreciate not giving up the automatic out. Now if it was Clayton up to bat, for example? Then, absolutely, bunt away.

And besides, bunting there means you're playing for one run. You like the odds of one run holding up with that bullpen?

Couldn't agree more. The best bunt in the world doesn't get a slow runner to first. Why not let the man hit. almost 3 times out of 10 he'll get that runner home!

[jesusfan]

1-2-3... Duncan-Pujols-ROlen due up

[redlegs2370]

Izzy in... Let's rock him!
Let's hope but I'm not sure you can catch lightning in a bottle twice.

[redlegs2370]

1-2-3... Duncan-Pujols-ROlen due up
Can you say game over. No way the Reds come out of this inning alive.

[keeganbrick]

Why is there no one warming up with Franklin on the mound?

[Rotater Cuff]

after walking pujols, naroon better get another pitcher in there

[redlegs2370]

Why not bring in left hander to face Duncan?

[Newman4]

Just got here, why the heck didn't a lefty pitch to Duncan?

[Newman4]

Ah, you beat me to it. Narron is awful.

[keeganbrick]

Seriously, why is Narron just leaving Franklin out there to pitch the 9th.

[redlegs2370]

after walking pujols, naroon better get another pitcher in there
For the most part, Narron is too late with his pitching changes.

[keeganbrick]

Game over, another horrible decision by Narron concerning the bullpen.

[jesusfan]

well well... here we go again... back to 2.5 GB....

[redlegs2370]

This is ridiculous to leave Frankling in.

[Newman4]

I blame this one on Narron.

[Rotater Cuff]

Why is there no one warming up with Franklin on the mound?

maybe naroon can explain that one later this season. One of the worst pitchers, completely unknown quantity except he stunk at Philly, in the game while the other side is using their ace

[GOREDSGO32]

Game over. If the Reds miss the playoffs (which is looking more and more likely now), it wasn't from a lack of opportunities. Blown opportunity after blown opportunity, its this teams own damn fault they didn't capatilize when needed to. Had an awesome opportunity to win the series today, and a great one last week to go 3-1 at home, and couldn't get the job done.

[fisch11]

Chris Duncan is the newest Reds killer I guess.....Reds couldn't push across BP in the 8th, that's to blame.

[redlegs7089]

narron is what is preventing this team from going to the next level

[wojo1025]

Just got here, why the heck didn't a lefty pitch to Duncan?


Our bullpen is lacking lefties, obviously, duh :eek:

AND Duncan has been hitting so poorly in this series, Narron probably figured anyone would be able to get that guy out!



:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

[keeganbrick]

I guess it "doesnt matter" if we are a half game back or 2.5 games back so Narron jus figured what the hell I'll just leave Franklin in.

[redlegs2370]

How many games has Narron cost the Reds by not having a reliever ready in the bullpen. In the last month I can think of two (Braves and this one)

[adampad]

Can we find a defensive sub for Narron in the later innings? How about Castro?

[cincrazy]

Why is it becoming less and less likely that this team is going to the postseason? This team is a far from finished product, and has MANY obvious holes. This game ticked me off to the highest of levels, and I do think that Narron blew it by leaving Franklin in, but this is a purely average team, doing what average teams do. Which is win one big game, then turn right around and lose another. Inconsistency is the hallmark of all average teams... and the Reds are flat out schizo.

[wojo1025]

Agreed, I am nut sure how it's less likely that we'll make the playoffs. I still think we're in a good position. It's definately not any worse than it was last week.

[redlegs2370]

Can we find a defensive sub for Narron in the later innings? How about Castro?
Dent seems to be doing a good job when Narron gets ejected.

[Cicero]

Narron should hve changed pitchers yes, but failing to score from third the previous inning is just as big. We are still failing to do the little things that it takes to win games like this.

[realistic]

Just got here, why the heck didn't a lefty pitch to Duncan?


Because Narron had too many lefties to choose from, maybe he was confused. Im a bit upset. On the bright side at least I wont have to read any "anti-Griffey" threads tonight.

[91OSUAlum]

Cmon, you guys are crazy. Narron is not the best game manager but this game was lost because this TEAM cannot get a runner in from 3rd base at all. Infield in, there is no reason not to do something. I do not care that Valentin has 4 Pinch hit homers. We need more contact guys on the bench. It is either HR or K. Valentin does not even pick the darn bat off his shoulders until he is down 0-2. Then swings at a pitch on the dirt.

We will not be good until we change the mix of our team for next year. Get some more Hattebergs and guys who can make contact.

[keeganbrick]

It really is just inexcusable to not bring in a lefty to face Duncan in the 9th. How about Scott?? Did Narron really feel more comfortable with Franklin then Coffey? Is that why he didnt want to pull him, bc Coffey was the only righty left? I want to hear a reason for this.

[keeganbrick]

Cmon, you guys are crazy. Narron is not the best game manager but this game was lost because this TEAM cannot get a runner in from 3rd base at all. Infield in, there is no reason not to do something. I do not care that Valentin has 4 Pinch hit homers. We need more contact guys on the bench. It is either HR or K. Valentin does not even pick the darn bat off his shoulders until he is down 0-2. Then swings at a pitch on the dirt.

We will not be good until we change the mix of our team for next year. Get some more Hattebergs and guys who can make contact.
Uh, he swings at the first pitch as much as anyone in the majors does.

[Cicero]

On the good news side, the Cubs have owned St Louis this season and the Mets have owned everyone. We are still in a good position, but we have got to stop giving away games like this one. There was also no excuse for not hitting Weaver today. He has BP stuff and we made him look like Pedro.

[Rotater Cuff]

Cmon, you guys are crazy. Narron is not the best game manager but this game was lost because this TEAM cannot get a runner in from 3rd base at all.

That hurt, but the lack of a closer lost this game.
Naroon is an example of the peter principal. Good bench coach, terrible manager. Good motivator, terrible strategist.
There wasn't even a pitcher ready to come in when the problems ensued.

[Redsfanao]

On the good news side, the Cubs have owned St Louis this season and the Mets have owned everyone. We are still in a good position, but we have got to stop giving away games like this one. There was also no excuse for not hitting Weaver today. He has BP stuff and we made him look like Pedro.

In other good news....the Padres and D-Backs are both losing. So, if D-backs lose, the Reds will remain alone in first in the wild card race.

[EKURed]

Please explain something to me because I am confused. How can Coffey and Weathers be used in a 7-2 game and Franklin be used against the heart of their order in the 9th? Color me confused....

[keeganbrick]

Please explain something to me because I am confused. How can Coffey and Weathers be used in a 7-2 game and Franklin be used against the heart of their order in the 9th? Color me confused....
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

Narron needs major :help:

[Newman4]

Cmon, you guys are crazy. Narron is not the best game manager but this game was lost because this TEAM cannot get a runner in from 3rd base at all. Infield in, there is no reason not to do something. I do not care that Valentin has 4 Pinch hit homers. We need more contact guys on the bench. It is either HR or K. Valentin does not even pick the darn bat off his shoulders until he is down 0-2. Then swings at a pitch on the dirt.

We will not be good until we change the mix of our team for next year. Get some more Hattebergs and guys who can make contact.

I would have liked to see a squeeze play....oh yeah, Narron would have to call that one too. :bang:

[Fat_Strat]

Good game for us; sorry, you Reds fans. Too bad you don't have Scott Rolen.

We squeeked one out from under you. Who would have thought that Lohse and Weaver would pitch that way?

You're hanging tough, though, but I think we can use this game as some momentum to carry us for awhile. If our pitching comes around then we'll leave you guys in the dust.

[redsfan4445]

Today was a perfect example that Narron DOESNT MANAGE THE RIGHT WAY..!!:angry: the 9th Inning!!!

why did Krivsky go out and get 5 leftys if NARRON wont use them right or at all??

Duncan coming up a lefty loogy should have been brought in to get him out, then Coffey to face the next 3 righthanders.. BUt NOOOOO Jerry had a plane to catch...GEEESH!!.

this is why Lou Pinella was great in 90.. he knew how to push the right correct buttons late in a game.. so was Sparky and Davey Johnson..heck Pete would have managed that game better!!!!

THEY managed to WIN!!.. Look how long it took Narron to figure out his best 8 players??? now he has no clue how to use a pitching staff..

just makes me sick how he manages..

[bucknutdet]

Here is an idea, quit walking the opponent late in the game. Make them beat you. I don't care if it was Pujols, with a man on in that situation, you can't give up a walk. Terrible. Not to mention he shouldn't have been in there in the first place.:thumbdown

[RedsFanInMD]

OK.. maybe because I feel like a contrarian today, I am going to make a mild attempt to defend Narron here.

1. That Philly series really took a lot out of our bullpen. Aaron also came up very small in Game 1 against the Cards, which added even more work. Coffey has been over-worked to death in recent weeks, and Weathers just threw plenty of pitches last night. Thus, I can understand why the BP options (especially for RHs was minimal).

2. With a tie score going into the bottom of the 9th, the best case scenario is that we still have to send SOMEBODY out there for two more innings. With Eddie's availability questionable, I can also understand why Narron was reluctant to "waste" a righty in the BP to pitch to Duncan. (It probably wouldn't have mattered anyway, because Duncan has been hitting EVERYBODY on the Reds staff.) Thus, Narron's thinking was: Let's hope that Franklin can get past Duncan -- and then we have the RH going against Pujols and Rolen.

3. I really, really hate to say this because it comes off as a loser's mentality, but there is truth in it. Sometimes it is better to lose a game one day than to blow your wad on it -- and wind up losing others down the road. Yes, this loss hurts, but maybe it would have hurt worse to have used too many guys from the bullpen -- and maybe still lose -- and make us overly vulnerable against the Pirates beginning tomorrow night. Remember we have a recent call-up, Milton (who, as good as he's been, is unlikely to go beyond 6 innings), and Harang, whose been down in the dumps of late. Sweeping the Pirates will make this loss today seem like a distant memory -- and we have a better shot at doing that with a fully loaded BP.

Again, I share everyone's frustrations by having a guy like Franklin out there lose this game for us -- but if the bats don't start improving, it really isn't going to matter who we send out there to pitch. And, although this loss hurts, there is still plenty of baseball left to be played. The Cards can feel good about winning this series, but they still finished with a losing record against us for the year -- and they face a much more difficult schedule (on paper) than we do heading down the stretch -- and possibly without Edmonds.

[RedsFanInMD]

Again, not to defend Narron, but like I said in the game post, Coffey has been overworked as it is and Weathers threw plenty of pitches last night. Also, our best case scenario still would have required 2 innings of relief pitching. It's true that we have plenty of lefties, but Pujols and Rolen have been killing left-handed pitching. And we were ridiculously short-handed with RHs in the BP. As for Duncan, he's been tearing up Reds pitching period. So I doubt that a LOOGY would have necessarily done the job against him anyway.

[redsmetz]

OK.. maybe because I feel like a contrarian today, I am going to make a mild attempt to defend Narron here.

1. That Philly series really took a lot out of our bullpen. Aaron also came up very small in Game 1 against the Cards, which added even more work. Coffey has been over-worked to death in recent weeks, and Weathers just threw plenty of pitches last night. Thus, I can understand why the BP options (especially for RHs was minimal).

2. With a tie score going into the bottom of the 9th, the best case scenario is that we still have to send SOMEBODY out there for two more innings. With Eddie's availability questionable, I can also understand why Narron was reluctant to "waste" a righty in the BP to pitch to Duncan. (It probably wouldn't have mattered anyway, because Duncan has been hitting EVERYBODY on the Reds staff.) Thus, Narron's thinking was: Let's hope that Franklin can get past Duncan -- and then we have the RH going against Pujols and Rolen.

3. I really, really hate to say this because it comes off as a loser's mentality, but there is truth in it. Sometimes it is better to lose a game one day than to blow your wad on it -- and wind up losing others down the road. Yes, this loss hurts, but maybe it would have hurt worse to have used too many guys from the bullpen -- and maybe still lose -- and make us overly vulnerable against the Pirates beginning tomorrow night. Remember we have a recent call-up, Milton (who, as good as he's been, is unlikely to go beyond 6 innings), and Harang, whose been down in the dumps of late. Sweeping the Pirates will make this loss today seem like a distant memory -- and we have a better shot at doing that with a fully loaded BP.

Again, I share everyone's frustrations by having a guy like Franklin out there lose this game for us -- but if the bats don't start improving, it really isn't going to matter who we send out there to pitch. And, although this loss hurts, there is still plenty of baseball left to be played. The Cards can feel good about winning this series, but they still finished with a losing record against us for the year -- and they face a much more difficult schedule (on paper) than we do heading down the stretch -- and possibly without Edmonds.

Excellent post. Frankly, we shouldn't have been in this position. This game was very winnable if we had just hit.

And, not to hang this on Ryan Freel, but with a better arm, perhaps Duncan is gunned down at the plate. And one final point, this one game doesn't make or break the season. No more head to head, but we just have to play well another day (and seeing what the Bucs did to St. Louis last week, I hope we fare better).

[GriffeyFan]

Seriously, Narron continues to make some downright ignorant decisions.

[Ltlabner]

There's already a few threads started on the subject. Why don't you post there instead of posting a whole new thread?

[91OSUAlum]

Fat Strat,

IF, If, if. Please. We may have lost today but if you compare our pitching to St, Louis, your team loses 4out of 5 slots.

Carpenter vs Harang - Carpenter
Arroyo - Reyes - Arroyo
Milton - Marquis - Milton
Suppan - Lohse - Lohse
Who is your fifth anyway? Ours is Michalak for now...

And before you throw Mulder at me, I have already read the scouting reports. Mulder is still hurt and will get lit up when he returns. Your starting pitching is below us....

Win a game against the Cubs and then we can talk about your vaunted pitching staff.

[boognish]

I think I need an explanation...with the current roster construction, I thought Franklin was the long man?? Shouldn't he have given 2 or 3 IP last night? I thought the entire reason we picked him up is due to the fact he is over 600 IP the last 3 years starting for the Mariners, and could be used for multiple innings (against the RH-heavy lineups in our division) in games with large deficits, on whatever side, to avoid having to wear out Weathers and especially Coffey in those types of games.

The last two games are exactly opposite of the way I thought the bullpen roles would shake out with the current roster.

[boognish]

[QUOTE=91OSUAlum]Who is your fifth anyway? Ours is Michalak for now...[\QUOTE]

Weaver, who seemingly can't get anyone out--anyone who is not currently on the roster of the Cincinnati Reds.

[flyer85]

todays and last nights stupidty really deserve their own thread.

[KalDanielsfan]

are u kidding. why on earth would you blame Narron for personnel problems???? We had franklin in there cuz that's no better or worse than our other options. We tend to lose games like this when we dont have a good bench. Todd Hollandsworth? gimme a break!

i see we picked up another bullpen lefty for the stretch run..nice. Krivsky is a retard. plain and simple.

[NatiRedGals]

Yes i dont mind him on the mound bottom of the 9th if he just came in never 8th and 9th

[boognish]

are u kidding. why on earth would you blame Narron for personnel problems???? We had franklin in there cuz that's no better or worse than our other options. We tend to lose games like this when we dont have a good bench. Todd Hollandsworth? gimme a break!

i see we picked up another bullpen lefty for the stretch run..nice. Krivsky is a retard. plain and simple.

Nope, not kidding. Could one of those lefties maybe get Chris Duncan out?

I think that Coffey or Weathers would be a better option than Franklin, but apparently they were burnt up yesterday. Why not use Guardado in a high-leverage situation? You seriously think there was no better option than Franklin?

Franklin is miscast if expected to mow through the top of the Cardinals lineup and preserve a tie on the road.

[keeganbrick]

Nope, not kidding. Could one of those lefties maybe get Chris Duncan out?

I think that Coffey or Weathers would be a better option than Franklin, but apparently they were burnt up yesterday. Why not use Guardado in a high-leverage situation? You seriously think there was no better option than Franklin?

Franklin is miscast if expected to mow through the top of the Cardinals lineup and preserve a tie on the road.
Guardado is hurt but regarding your other point bolded, Narron decided to use them yesterday in a 7-1 game in late innings.

[redsfan4445]

OK.. maybe because I feel like a contrarian today, I am going to make a mild attempt to defend Narron here.

1. That Philly series really took a lot out of our bullpen. Aaron also came up very small in Game 1 against the Cards, which added even more work. Coffey has been over-worked to death in recent weeks, and Weathers just threw plenty of pitches last night. Thus, I can understand why the BP options (especially for RHs was minimal).

2. With a tie score going into the bottom of the 9th, the best case scenario is that we still have to send SOMEBODY out there for two more innings. With Eddie's availability questionable, I can also understand why Narron was reluctant to "waste" a righty in the BP to pitch to Duncan. (It probably wouldn't have mattered anyway, because Duncan has been hitting EVERYBODY on the Reds staff.) Thus, Narron's thinking was: Let's hope that Franklin can get past Duncan -- and then we have the RH going against Pujols and Rolen.

3. I really, really hate to say this because it comes off as a loser's mentality, but there is truth in it. Sometimes it is better to lose a game one day than to blow your wad on it -- and wind up losing others down the road. Yes, this loss hurts, but maybe it would have hurt worse to have used too many guys from the bullpen -- and maybe still lose -- and make us overly vulnerable against the Pirates beginning tomorrow night. Remember we have a recent call-up, Milton (who, as good as he's been, is unlikely to go beyond 6 innings), and Harang, whose been down in the dumps of late. Sweeping the Pirates will make this loss today seem like a distant memory -- and we have a better shot at doing that with a fully loaded BP.

Again, I share everyone's frustrations by having a guy like Franklin out there lose this game for us -- but if the bats don't start improving, it really isn't going to matter who we send out there to pitch. And, although this loss hurts, there is still plenty of baseball left to be played. The Cards can feel good about winning this series, but they still finished with a losing record against us for the year -- and they face a much more difficult schedule (on paper) than we do heading down the stretch -- and possibly without Edmonds.

I have to say that gong into the biggest series for the Reds to prove a point, the wonderful Narron throws out a lineup against a cy young pitcher with 7,8 and 9 spots in the order as easy outs... i watched the game and the players seemed to be not into it before the game started.. they know who should be starting and SHOULD NOT be starting.. LaRue and Clayton instead of Ross and Aurelia?? This isnt the way to make a staement.. even LaRussa was glad Cardinal killer Aurelia wasnt in the lineup and he got another bonus a lousy hitting LaRue as well..

Lou Pinella would NEVER have started that lineup and today he would have had a lefty to face Duncan (whats the point of having 5 leftys on your roster if your not going to use him when the situaion calls for it?????) and then come back with Coffey to face the RH meat of the order... thats COMMON SENSE!

Thats why i am upset he didnt give the Reds a chance to win in a pitching duel.. anyway it doesnt matter now.. we are stuck with him for another year unless BOB goes after Lou after the season.

[goreds2]

Narron wanted to save his bullpen "studs" for the Pirate series. :bang:

[KalDanielsfan]

Nope, not kidding. Could one of those lefties maybe get Chris Duncan out?

I think that Coffey or Weathers would be a better option than Franklin, but apparently they were burnt up yesterday. Why not use Guardado in a high-leverage situation? You seriously think there was no better option than Franklin?

Franklin is miscast if expected to mow through the top of the Cardinals lineup and preserve a tie on the road.

um, franklin pitched a nice 3 scoreless innings in relief last time..he isnt ANY worse than anybody you mentioned.

guardado isnt a closer. he is an ender. he gives up too many hits, too few strikeouts, and doesnt slam the door in the ninth. he just happens to get 3 outs.

we dont have a closer. no closer = no playoffs. stop blaming the manager, when our roster isnt all that great to begin with.

[Redus]

If we miss the division by a game I'll remember Nacho Libre striking out with Phillips at third. Geez all the moves Krivskys made and the best guy we can send up to pinch hit and make contact is Javier? Hollandsworth is a waste if they didnt go to him. Hell we might as well tried a squeeze with Castro pinch hitting trying to lay one down. Oh well too bad we insist on carrying three catchers and only one can hit (Ross). A solid bat off the bench woulda been sweet. Even a damn sac fly.:bang:

[redsfanmia]

Javier has been pretty darn good as a PH this year, the two PH HRs come to mind. Cut the guy some slack.

[Redhook]

If we miss the division by a game I'll remember Nacho Libre striking out with Phillips at third. Geez all the moves Krivskys made and the best guy we can send up to pinch hit and make contact is Javier? Hollandsworth is a waste if they didnt go to him. Hell we might as well tried a squeeze with Castro pinch hitting trying to lay one down. Oh well too bad we insist on carrying three catchers and only one can hit (Ross). A solid bat off the bench woulda been sweet. Even a damn sac fly.:bang:

Not a good at-bat today, but didn't Javy just hit a 2-run pinch-hit home run in Philly to put the Reds up by one in the 9th inning? And didn't he have a pinch-hit home run in his prior at-bat to that one? Pinch-hitting is very difficult. He does need to put the ball in play there, but overall this year I'm pretty sure we lead the league in pinch-hitting.

[redsmetz]

Just looking at the stats, I think I want Clayton up there. He's had five sacrifice flies this year.

[BEETTLEBUG]

Naroon should have brought one of his Lefty's in since that was who was coming up then back with Righty for PuJols if he wished.

[goreds2]

um, franklin pitched a nice 3 scoreless innings in relief last time..he isnt ANY worse than anybody you mentioned.

guardado isnt a closer. he is an ender. he gives up too many hits, too few strikeouts, and doesnt slam the door in the ninth. he just happens to get 3 outs.

we dont have a closer. no closer = no playoffs. stop blaming the manager, when our roster isnt all that great to begin with.

Eddie Guardado with the Reds

W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO

0 0 1.32 14 0 0 0 8 10 13.2 14 5 2 2 1 2 16

[Always Red]

There's already a few threads started on the subject. Why don't you post there instead of posting a whole new thread?
Actually, this is a great question.

I was working during the day, could not hear the game at all, and when I got to a computer and looked it up and saw Franklin pitched the 8th and then the 9th (until the walk-off), all I could ask was "what the ****?"

There aren't any other threads here on RedsLive on this subject other than the game thread, and why go through all of that if I did not hear or see the game live?

It's a great question, because why was Franklin in there? Is everyone else hurt? tired? not available?

Franklin may turn out to be a great acquisition, but he's got a history of being a starter or long reliever. The Reds pick him up off waivers, and a week later he's pitching short relief in the 9th inning of one of the biggest games of the year?

My answer is NO, I don't want Franklin out there in the 9th in a tie game, and my question is why was he out there?:dunno:

[Tom Servo]

Who exactly do we have who's proven themselves to be any better in that situation?

[Always Red]

So is Franklin better than Guardado, Bray, Coffey, Weathers?

Has Narron lost faith in all of them?

Were some (any) of them unavailable? I have a sneaking suspicion that Eddie will be on the DL soon, unfortunately. He's been hittable, but he's mostly done the job better for this team than anyone else has this year.

[BEETTLEBUG]

Eddie G. Bray Cormeir or the new Lefty Scott Schoweiss

[Redeye fly]

Alright, I'll admit that I have to plead a little bit of ignorance here as I missed the end of the game, and really most of the game in general. Therefore there may be situations/matchups that I'm missing information on.

But the first question that came to my mind is what other guy is Narron supposed to put out there? You never really know what you're going to get out of any pitcher in our bullpen. It's not as if he has a Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, or Randy Myers at their peak to roll out there. Heck, he doesn't even have a Scott Williamson type at his peak.

[REDREAD]

Franklin pitching in the ninth tonight is proof that Wayne DID NOT fix the bullpen. Either that, or it's proof that Narron has no clue how to use it.

If Narron doesn't feel comfortable bringing in any of his lefties in that situation, that's a serious problem. We need to get rid of one of the lefties and bring up Standbridge if Narron insists on making Franklin a "go to guy".

Franklin should be the long reliever/mop up guy. Instead, we see Narron using Bray, Coffey and Weathers in games where we are down 4 runs. Then those three guys are too tired to be used in close games. ::angry:

[Patrick Bateman]

The choices I would have used in order are:

1. Schoweneweis against Duncan, and then Coffey (or maybe Weathers) for the rest of the inning.

2. Bray for the entire inning.

3. Cormier for the entire inning.

4. Guardado for the entire inning (that doesn't make much sense since you may as well wait until a save situation because you are on the road and he is strictly a 1 inning pitcher at this point).

5. Leave Franklin in for the entire inning.

Franklin has been okay for the Reds so far, but that small sample size doesn't make up for a career of lousy pitching. Narron seems to go by who's been good lately. That's not such a bad idea when you have 2 evenly strengthed pitchers, but shouldn't allow superior pitchers for the situation to sit on the bench.

For me, Franklin was the worst possible reliever to use, especially when considering the batters he was against and the fact it was one of the most crucial games of the season to date. You simply can't trot out the likes of Franklin in these types of situations without expecting to be burnt. None of the other guys were locks to shut the door, but you have to play the best possible match-up to increase the chances of escaping the inning.

[jesusfan]

I agree... That was a very bad managerial decision... Bray for Duncan, and Coffee or Weathers against Pujols and Rolen... The result might have been the same but that's the correct thing to do in that situation... I'm no Big League manager, but that's plain ole common sense!

Oh well... We need a sweep of the Pirates, no less than 2 out of 3... Go Cubbies!

[KalDanielsfan]

Franklin pitching in the ninth tonight is proof that Wayne DID NOT fix the bullpen. Either that, or it's proof that Narron has no clue how to use it.

Bray, Coffey, Cormier, Franklin, Guardado, Majewski, Weathers, Schoenweis, and Standridge

Cmon guys are u kididng me? Are you blind Reds fans or real baseball fans...this bullpen puts the fear into NOBDOY.

I chuckle at the notion just a week or two ago everyone claiming we had the best bullpen in the national league.

4 lefthanded arms in the bullpen that pitch in the GAB against the likes of Pujols, Rolen, David Wright, Beltran, Lugo, Garciaparra, Kent, etc.

yeah..great call WK

[paulrichjr]

Absolutely the worst managing I have ever seen. I was at the game and I was livid the entire 9th inning. He actually had someone warming up but never went to get him. I promise if you would have been there you would have seen a Cardinals team that was mangaged to win the game and the game was treated like it was important. Narron treated it like it didn't matter.
I know that this is hard to believe but that is exactly the way it looked. He really did look like he didn't want to go into extra innings or mess up his bullpen. He has made so many mistakes that have costs us it is a miracle we are even close to the top. You have to wonder what the players thought after todays game.

[jnwohio]

The choice for the Cards' 9th was not so simple as just to bring on a leftie to face Duncan. I don't believe the Cards had used Spezio (a switch hitter) so the choice was probably more like a rightie facing Duncan or a leftie facing Spezio batting from the right side. Duncan and Spezio have both owned the Reds in the last 2 or 3 series. So my guess would be that Narron chose to leave Franklin in and take his chances with Duncan because Franklin was the man Narron preferred to have facing Pujols, Rolen, and Encarnacion.

After the 1st two had reached, it might have actually made some sense for Narron to revert to the "Philadelphia Plan". i.e. walked Rolen to load the bases and taken his chances on getting a couple of groundballs, pop ups or strike outs. Slim chance of succeeding but probably better than pitching to Rolen.

This game was really lost in the 8th when the Reds wasted the lead off double. I am generally more of an "old school" guy but I did not agree with the Reds sacrificing in that situation. It basically put all the Reds' eggs in the one basket, that being that Valentin would get the run in because for all the good things Freel is, he is not a good RBI man, especially with 2 outs. Also I just did not agree with taking the bat out of the hands of the man who won a game last week against the Cards with a walk off homer.

[REDREAD]

Again, not to defend Narron, but like I said in the game post, Coffey has been overworked as it is and Weathers threw plenty of pitches last night.

Coffey and Weathers are overworked because Narron keeps using them in losing games. Isn't it Managing 101 to use your long guy (Franklin) when you are down by 3 or more runs in the 7th? Instead, Narron trots Coffey and Weathers out there, and then when we really need Coffey/Weathers, they are too tired. :thumbdown

[REDREAD]

Narron wanted to save his bullpen "studs" for the Pirate series. :bang:


Yeah, they got to stay fresh to mop up after Michealik :rolleyes: Narron is borderline incompetent.

[REDREAD]

Bray was sold to us as a lefty that could pitch to righties. He was pretty fresh too (2IP in two appearances for the last five days, including today).

[oregonred]

Bray was sold to us as a lefty that could pitch to righties. He was pretty fresh too (2IP in two appearances for the last five days, including today).

Not sure why Bray didn't start the ninth other than maybe Narron was saving him for the closer in the 10th/11th if the Reds got a lead. Still a loogy should have been used to get Duncan to get the first out -- simply inexcusable managing trying to milk another inning out of Frankin with 2-3-4 in the order.

Bray's been overused as a Red which is a big problem given he just turned 23 and has had limited innings in pro ball since being drafted by the Nats. 8 appearance in 14 days after the AS break. Followed by 8 appearances in the first 13 days of August. Too much work. He's been consistently used in gave saving/critical situations including 2 innings to close out the win in Philly on Thursday. No reason to think he wasn't available

[REDREAD]

Bray's been overused as a Red which is a big problem given he just turned 23 and has had limited innings in pro ball since being drafted by the Nats. 8 appearance in 14 days after the AS break. Followed by 8 appearances in the first 13 days of August. Too much work. He's been consistently used in gave saving/critical situations including 2 innings to close out the win in Philly on Thursday. No reason to think he wasn't available

I agree that Narron used Bray too much initially. I guess it was new toy syndrome. However, Bray should've been used tonight. Or as you said, at least use one of your five LH relievers against Duncan.