Narron explains leaving Milton in to hit last night..

[Matt700wlw]

Cincinnati Post
The Reds had two runs in and the bases loaded in the top of the sixth, the deficit cut to 3-2, when Milton's spot in the batting order came up. Manager Jerry Narron didn't think about sending up a pinch-hitter, because he already had predicted the exact situation he found himself in.
"I told Bucky (Dent, the bench coach) before the inning started, 'This inning right here, Miltie's going to come up with a 3-2 game and the bases loaded and two outs and I'm going to let him hit,'" said Narron. "As well as he's pitching, we've got a lot of game left, we've got our lineup coming up at least once, probably more, and I have a lot of confidence in our other guys."



Looking back now, I can see his reasoning. I may not totally agree with it, and it ultimately didn't cost them the game, but at least there's an explanation to why he was thinking the way he was thinking.

[Chip R]

Looking back now, I can see his reasoning. I may not totally agree with it, and it ultimately didn't cost them the game, but at least there's an explanation to why he was thinking the way he was thinking.

And if the Reds had lost 3-2, there would have been a whole lot more people questioning that strategy.

[Joseph]

I'm not saying its the gospel truth here, but its easy for him to say that was the plan all along AFTER the fact.

[smith288]

So Narron used his powers of prediction to win later on against just making a managerial move to make it more likely to open the inning up right there and then?

Suweeeeeeet.

[Matt700wlw]

Bottom line is, it worked.

If it hadn't, we'd all be fuming right now.

[smith288]

Bottom line is, it worked.

If it hadn't, we'd all be fuming right now.
What worked? Not placing the team in the best position to win? Pffff. Milton has a record of blowing up after 5 or 6 so he most certainly did not learn from his past mistakes and he certainly didnt position the team for a win with his non move.

That, my friend, was the Reds winning in spite of Jerry Narron's best efforts.

[TeamBoone]

What worked? Not placing the team in the best position to win? Pffff. Milton has a record of blowing up after 5 or 6 so he most certainly did not learn from his past mistakes and he certainly didnt position the team for a win with his non move.

That, my friend, was the Reds winning in spite of Jerry Narron's best efforts.

But! Milton had not yet thrown even close to 5 or 6 innings' worth of pitches; he was in the 50's.

And, he has proven he can hit in critical situations... no, he didn't last night but he did last week.

[oneupper]

Assume that:

A = At Bat from Milton with bases loaded
B = At Bat from Pinch Hitter (Javy or Hollandsworth) with bases loaded

C = One or two innings of Middle relief (Belisle, perhaps?)
D = One or two innings of Milton (6th and 7th inning).

Narron is saying that

D minus C is greater than B minus A.


In my mind D minus C is ALWAYS a small number...(or likely negative)
Javy can outhit Milton...so..

Narron continues to use "NEW MATH"

"Pitching well" = 10 hits and 2 HR in 6 2/3...

Does not compute for me...sorry

[Matt700wlw]

I guess I'll say this....if he's going to let a pitcher hit in that situation....I'd rather it be Milton.

He can actually hit. He had a 4 game hitting streak snapped last night.

It was still a risky move, but they won, and that's the important thing.

[Bucky Furgoo]

No. The bottom line Narron made the call...the Reds won...and are now in 1st place.

[smith288]

No. The bottom line Narron made the call...the Reds won in spite of the call...and are now in 1st place.

There, fixed.

[RBA]

I'm confused. Doesn't the lineup come around again right after the pitcher's spot? So Narron should really never PH for the pitcher since the lineup is coming up again.

[harangatang]

"Pitching well" = 10 hits and 2 HR in 6 2/3...

Does not compute for me...sorryWell the thing to consider is that the 2 HR's and most of the hits were in the first 2 innings of the game. If Milton would have given up a majority of the hits and 2 HR's in the 5th and 6th inning than he should've been pulled. In reality Milton had a low pitch count and settled in nicely from the 3rd inning and can hit pretty well for a pitcher, so my hat's off to Jerry. Something else that really struck me was the confidence that Narron has put in this ballclub. Instead of the Sean Casey attitude of losing we have a team that legitimately believes in themselves and thier abilities to win as a team. Something else to consider is if you have Valentin come in and say he gets a single and drives in 2 runs. If you bring in a reliever instead of Milton pitching after he found his groove, there is a likely possibility the bullpen might give up the 2 runs the Reds just scored. Or if Valentin doesn't get a hit and bullpen gives up 2 runs than you're down by 2 more runs without your effective pitcher on the mound.

[smith288]

Well the thing to consider is that the 2 HR's and most of the hits were in the first 2 innings of the game. If Milton would have given up a majority of the hits and 2 HR's in the 5th and 6th inning than he should've been pulled. In reality Milton had a low pitch count and settled in nicely from the 3rd inning and can hit pretty well for a pitcher, so my hat's off to Jerry. Something else that really struck me was the confidence that Narron has put in this ballclub. Instead of the Sean Casey attitude of losing we have a team that legitimately believes in themselves and thier abilities to win as a team. Something else to consider is if you have Valentin come in and say he gets a single and drives in 2 runs. If you bring in a reliever instead of Milton pitching after he found his groove, there is a likely possibility the bullpen might give up the 2 runs the Reds just scored. Or if Valentin doesn't get a hit and bullpen gives up 2 runs than you're down by 2 more runs without your effective pitcher on the mound.
I dont think Casey has a losers mentality. He wants to win just as badly as anyone else. Now Graves...there a loser.

[Falls City Beer]

Jerry's Heart = pitter-patter for Milton.

[harangatang]

I dont think Casey has a losers mentality. He wants to win just as badly as anyone else. Now Graves...there a loser.Well the problem I had with Sean Casey is that everytime the Reds made moves that improved the ballclub (Graves DFA etc.) he would whine and cry about it. If Sean Casey wanted to win he would accept the fact that ballclubs have to make moves to improve themselves. At that time the DFA of Danny Graves was the best thing for the ballclub, but Casey couldn't accept that. All Casey wanted to do was have fun with his friends and make the clubhouse a great place. That didn't equate to winning.

[Will M]

Milton hit because the manager didn't want to burn out the bullpen on day 1 of a ten games in 10 days roadtrip

- Will

[smith288]

Means emotionally, he is rather immature. I think by now, he has learned the business now that he's been trade fodder for two years in a row.

[harangatang]

Jerry's Heart = pitter-patter for Milton.Jerry's heart = putting confidence in this team to make a run at the playoffs

[Chip R]

Well the thing to consider is that the 2 HR's and most of the hits were in the first 2 innings of the game. If Milton would have given up a majority of the hits and 2 HR's in the 5th and 6th inning than he should've been pulled. In reality Milton had a low pitch count and settled in nicely from the 3rd inning and can hit pretty well for a pitcher, so my hat's off to Jerry.

I doubt you would be so charitable if the Reds had lost. The thing with Milton, as Saturday night proved, is that he can blow up at any time out of the blue. He wasn't pitching bad then until the 5th inning then all of a sudden it's a tie game. The Reds didn't have the luxury of having a lead last night when Milton's spot came up. It's not like Milton is Rick Rhoden or anything. He can handle a bat but I'd rather see someone up there who hits for a living in that spot.

[Roy Tucker]

I'm glad it all worked out, but it didn't seem like a very good idea then or now. I'd say he got lucky. But I'm also not going to rake him over the coals for it.

Narron did these kinds of moves prior to the All-Star break when he'd look down at the bullpen and see a row of gas cans. But I thought he had a relatively reliable bullpen now and didn't have to desperately extend the starters.

:dunno:

[oneupper]

Well the thing to consider is that the 2 HR's and most of the hits were in the first 2 innings of the game. If Milton would have given up a majority of the hits and 2 HR's in the 5th and 6th inning than he should've been pulled. In reality Milton had a low pitch count and settled in nicely from the 3rd inning and can hit pretty well for a pitcher, so my hat's off to Jerry. Something else that really struck me was the confidence that Narron has put in this ballclub. Instead of the Sean Casey attitude of losing we have a team that legitimately believes in themselves and thier abilities to win as a team. Something else to consider is if you have Valentin come in and say he gets a single and drives in 2 runs. If you bring in a reliever instead of Milton pitching after he found his groove, there is a likely possibility the bullpen might give up the 2 runs the Reds just scored. Or if Valentin doesn't get a hit and bullpen gives up 2 runs than you're down by 2 more runs without your effective pitcher on the mound.

I put down the variables in the equation.
That IS the decision equation.

Jerry put certain values on those variables in order to make his decision.
I (and others here) would have put down different ones.

Probably on this occasion the Jerry's values made a little more sense, due to the cool weather and low pitch count. We know Milton blows up when he gets tired. So, we can cut Jerry some slack (and the fact the team won in the end). And Milton has proven not be totally worthless with a bat.

The problem is that I believe he would have made the same decision at GABP on a day with 100 degrees in the shade and Milton at 90 pitches.
Alou knew it, too and the word to Correia was simple...get Ross and you're out of it, Narron's not going to hit for Milton.

[redsmetz]

Narron did these kinds of moves prior to the All-Star break when he'd look down at the bullpen and see a row of gas cans. But I thought he had a relatively reliable bullpen now and didn't have to desperately extend the starters.

I don't think he saw it as desperately extending his starter, but rather sticking with him when he was going well. He even did in the subsequent inning what we've all said he should do with Milton. Let him go out and once a runner gets on, pull him for a reliever. To the letter, that's what he did.

I think he saw nothing but plusses. If Milton gets a hit, that's gravy. If he doesn't, he had faith in his line-up to still get the game. I think we're seeing this team gel and decisions being made accordingly.

[harangatang]

I doubt you would be so charitable if the Reds had lost. The thing with Milton, as Saturday night proved, is that he can blow up at any time out of the blue. He wasn't pitching bad then until the 5th inning then all of a sudden it's a tie game. The Reds didn't have the luxury of having a lead last night when Milton's spot came up. It's not like Milton is Rick Rhoden or anything. He can handle a bat but I'd rather see someone up there who hits for a living in that spot.Actually if the Reds would've lost I would've still approved of this move. People undervalue the importance of confidence in baseball or for that matter anything you do in life. I like that Narron believes in Milton and this team because unforunately alot of people don't. Narron's a man for making moves like this and even if it would've equated in a 3-2 loss, Milton remembers things like that. This entire ballclub remembers things like that. When people say this a new era of baseball in Cincinnati I agree for all the same reasons but just one more. The attitude of losing in gone is Cincinnati and this team believes they should win. Plain and simple.

[Ravenlord]

...but I'd rather see someone up there who hits for a living in that spot.
unfortunately Jacob Cruz is in Norfolk.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Completely disagreed with Narron at the time, and posted my feelings on the game thread.

And that is precisely why Narron is the manager of a first-place team, and I am typing on a keyboard.

[James B.]

Just because the reds won doesn't make this a smart move.Sometimes managers just get lucky. If Narron sent Castro to pinch hit for Adam Dunn and Castro got a base hit would that be a smart move? I would just call it a lucky move.

[Tom Servo]

I noticed no one seems to buy into Jerry's statement of "we've got our lineup coming up at least once, probably more, and I have a lot of confidence in our other guys,", but I do. Not everyone is a gloom and doom type of person like we are in the game threads where we watch the game and figure the Giants pitchers are coasting and there's no way our offense can get anything going.


I'm not saying it's necessarily the move I would have made, but I definatly see the reasoning. Milty hadn't been giving up any runs since the 2nd and our bullpen isn't exactly the Gibraltor. Narron believed Milton could be trusted on the mound for a little longer and that the offense could get the lead, and he ultimatley ended up being right.

[GOREDSGO32]

Or he could have pinch hit, the pinch hitter could have just grounded out, we bring in Courmier he gives up 3 runs, the game is out of reach and we don't rally to win. Hindsight is 20/20, we won, period. I don't trust this bullpen still, and Milton has actually been a pretty good hitting pitcher this year.

[REDREAD]

Narron probably also predicted the wind would help keep those two very hard shots in the ballpark.

Milton didn't exactly cruise through the lineup in that extra inning or two (can't recall how long Milton was left).

Jerry played with fire and was lucky not to get burned. Instead he pats himself on the back for being a genius. That's why Narron is so dangerous. Something like this works, and it gives him more confidence to go with his gut feeling and throw logic out the window.

[Jr's Boy]

Keep it up Narron,playing it safe never get's you no where.

[CTA513]

Milton hit because the manager didn't want to burn out the bullpen on day 1 of a ten games in 10 days roadtrip

- Will

He used 5 guys out of the bullpen last night.

[dieselman44]

Milton was farrr from pitching a good game. The Giants were squaring the ball off him all night and if that game was played at GABP we might have seen 5 homers off Milton.

[PuffyPig]

Most managers would have done the same as Narron last night.

Just sayin'.

[Falls City Beer]

Most managers would have done the same as Narron last night.



I doubt it.

Hence the question posed to him by the reporter.

[RFS62]

Most managers would have done the same as Narron last night.

Just sayin'.


I agree.




I doubt it.

Hence the question posed to him by the reporter.



Most reporters aren't managers.

[TeamBoone]

Instead of the Sean Casey attitude of losing we have a team that legitimately believes in themselves and thier abilities to win as a team.

Where the heck did that come from?

I never ever heard/saw anything in print/or in person to make someone say that. Quite the reverse actually... he's the one I often saw in the dugout with fire in his eyes.

[Jefferson24]

oops....wrong thead

[Falls City Beer]

I agree.





Most reporters aren't managers.


What would Sparky do?

(Hint: pinch-hit for Milton)

What would Whitey do?

(Clue: pinch-hit for Milton)

[Cedric]

I wonder if his heart is teling him to pitch Ryan Franklin in the dumbest situations possible? I can't honestly stand the steroid cheat anyway, why do we have to watch him hang Uncle Charlies to opposing pitchers?

Franklin should never have pitched to Steve Finley. We have ten LH pitchers in the bullpen.