Amazing stats on Jeter and Abreu

[GriffeyFan]

Jeter
.344, 12 HR, 84 RBI

Abreu
.304, 10 HR, 87 RBI

Now I know the Yankees have arguably the best 1-9 hitting lineup of all-time but these two guys are approaching 100 RBI without hitting 20 home runs.

Adam Dunn has 27 more homers than Jeter and 29 more than Abreu and has just 1-ONE-1 more run batted in than Abeu (4 more than Jeter).

It's just amazing how many runs these two have driven in without using the longball. Again, I know there are guys on base all the time, but it's still impressive that they might achieve 100 RBI without hitting 20 home runs.

[vaticanplum]

Jeter has had a monster year, one of the best of his career. Regarding exactly your point, I have been wondering for several weeks whether his "low" homer numbers will prevent him from winning MVP. If he had 35+ I think he'd be a shoo-in; as it is I think he is certainly worth consideration, especially considering how the Yankees have pulled ahead in that race.

BTW they were losing 5-1 to Kansas City tonight -- then had a 10-run eighth. Couldn't they have just sent maybe two of those runs over to the Reds tonight?

[maniem]

Sort of reminds of the Cardinal teams of the 80's...Low home run totals but had speed to burn. I remember Tommy Herr having a season of 8 HR and over 100 RBIs, while many other guys had similar numbers such as Willie McGee...Definitely a different era of baseball.

[westofyou]

It's just amazing how many runs these two have driven in without using the longball. Again, I know there are guys on base all the time, but it's still impressive that they might achieve 100 RBI without hitting 20 home runs.

It is amazing, it's really something that is not a big part of the game, look at the best since 1969, what's equally amazing is that they will score 100 runs most likely (97 for Jeter and 85 for Abreu)


SEASON
1969-2005
HOMERUNS < 12
AVERAGE >= .300
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RUNS displayed only--not a sorting criteria

RBI YEAR RBI HR AVG OBA R
1 Jeff Cirillo 2000 115 11 .326 .042 111
2 Paul Molitor 1996 113 9 .341 .040 99
3 Wes Parker 1970 111 10 .319 .052 84
4 Tom Herr 1985 110 8 .302 .051 97
5 Keith Hernandez 1979 105 11 .344 .082 116
6 Willie Montanez 1975 101 10 .302 .017 61
7 Willie Davis 1970 93 8 .305 -.004 92
8 Garret Anderson 1997 92 8 .303 -.006 76
T9 Jose Cruz 1980 91 11 .302 .031 79
T9 Keith Hernandez 1985 91 10 .309 .056 87
T11 Rod Carew 1976 90 9 .331 .074 97
T11 Tony Gwynn 1995 90 9 .368 .064 82

What they are doing is what the game was like in the 20's and the 30's, and rest assured like today nobody liked the pitchers back then, hence why guys like Lon Warneke, Derringer, Hal Schummaker and Cy Blanton slipped between the cracks of history.

The feat has been accomplished 101 times since 1900, and only 11 of those have been since WW2, and only 2 since the strike, it's a rare event and the Yankees have two of them.


RBI YEAR RBI HR AVG OBA R
1 Dixie Walker 1945 124 8 .300 .038 102
2 Dixie Walker 1946 116 9 .319 .053 80
3 Jeff Cirillo 2000 115 11 .326 .042 111
4 Paul Molitor 1996 113 9 .341 .040 99
5 Wes Parker 1970 111 10 .319 .052 84
T6 Tom Herr 1985 110 8 .302 .051 97
T6 Luis Olmo 1945 110 10 .313 .013 62
8 Floyd Robinson 1962 109 11 .312 .049 89
9 Keith Hernandez 1979 105 11 .344 .082 116
10 Hoot Evers 1948 103 10 .314 .019 81
T11 George Kell 1950 101 8 .340 .037 114
T11 Willie Montanez 1975 101 10 .302 .017 61
T11 Enos Slaughter 1952 101 11 .300 .051 73

[Cyclone792]

What they are doing is what the game was like in the 20's and the 30's, and rest assured like today nobody liked the pitchers back then, hence why guys like Lon Warneke, Derringer, Hal Schummaker and Cy Blanton slipped between the cracks of history.

The feat has been accomplished 101 times since 1900, and only 11 of those have been since WW2, and only 2 since the strike, it's a rare event and the Yankees have two of them.

The one individual player historically who immediately came to mind for me was Charlie Gehringer, and he was one of those guys in the 20s and 30s who did what Jeter and Abreu are doing this season.

Lots of singles, doubles, walks, high batting averages, high on-base percentages, loads of runs scored and a decent chunk of RBI ... all without the big home run numbers.


CHARLIE GEHRINGER

GIVEN NAME: Charles Leonard Gehringer
BORN: 5/11/1903 Fowlerville, Michigan DIED: 1/21/1993 Bloomfield Hills, Michigan
BAT: L THROW: R HEIGHT: 5'11" WEIGHT: 180 MLB DEBUT: 9/22/1924
CAREER GAMES BY POSITION: 1B: 9 2B: 2209 3B: 6

YEAR TEAM AGE G AB R H 2B 3B HR HR% RBI BB SO SB CS AVG SLG OBA OPS
1924 Tigers 21 5 13 2 6 0 0 0 0.00 1 0 2 1 1 .462 .462 .500 .962
1925 Tigers 22 8 18 3 3 0 0 0 0.00 0 2 0 0 1 .167 .167 .250 .417
1926 Tigers 23 123 459 62 127 19 17 1 0.22 48 30 42 9 7 .277 .399 .322 .721
1927 Tigers 24 133 508 110 161 29 11 4 0.79 61 52 31 17 8 .317 .441 .383 .824
1928 Tigers 25 154 603 108 193 29 16 6 1.00 74 69 22 15 9 .320 .451 .395 .846
1929 Tigers 26 155 634 131 215 45 19 13 2.05 106 64 19 27 9 .339 .532 .405 .936
1930 Tigers 27 154 610 144 201 47 15 16 2.62 98 69 17 19 15 .330 .534 .404 .938
1931 Tigers 28 101 383 67 119 24 5 4 1.04 53 29 15 13 4 .311 .431 .359 .790
1932 Tigers 29 152 618 112 184 44 11 19 3.07 107 68 34 9 8 .298 .497 .370 .867
1933 Tigers 30 155 628 103 204 42 6 12 1.91 105 68 27 5 4 .325 .468 .393 .862
1934 Tigers 31 154 601 134 214 50 7 11 1.83 127 99 25 11 8 .356 .517 .450 .967
1935 Tigers 32 150 610 123 201 32 8 19 3.11 108 79 16 11 4 .330 .502 .409 .911
1936 Tigers 33 154 641 144 227 60 12 15 2.34 116 83 13 4 1 .354 .555 .431 .987
1937 Tigers 34 144 564 133 209 40 1 14 2.48 96 90 25 11 4 .371 .520 .458 .978
1938 Tigers 35 152 568 133 174 32 5 20 3.52 107 112 21 14 1 .306 .486 .424 .910
1939 Tigers 36 118 406 86 132 29 6 16 3.94 86 68 16 4 3 .325 .544 .423 .967
1940 Tigers 37 139 515 108 161 33 3 10 1.94 81 101 17 10 0 .313 .447 .428 .875
1941 Tigers 38 127 436 65 96 19 4 3 0.69 46 95 26 1 2 .220 .303 .363 .666
1942 Tigers 39 45 45 6 12 0 0 1 2.22 7 7 4 0 0 .267 .333 .365 .699
TOTALS 2323 8860 1774 2839 574 146 184 2.08 1427 1185 372 181 89 .320 .480 .404 .884
LG AVERAGE 8422 1284 2426 456 114 140 1.66 1187 904 680 124 84 .288 .419 .360 .779
POS AVERAGE 8276 1236 2301 426 105 103 1.25 1065 910 684 129 88 .278 .392 .352 .744

YEAR TEAM RC RCAA RCAP OWP RC/G TB EBH ISO SEC BPA IBB HBP SAC SF GIDP OUTS PA POS
1924 Tigers 3 1 1 .749 9.75 6 0 .000 .077 .500 0 1 0 0 0 8 14 2B
1925 Tigers 1 -2 -2 .095 1.63 3 0 .000 .111 .200 0 0 0 0 0 16 20 2B
1926 Tigers 59 -14 -4 .406 4.19 183 37 .122 .207 .441 0 1 27 0 0 366 517 2B
1927 Tigers 89 5 14 .528 6.36 224 44 .124 .260 .511 0 2 9 0 0 364 571 2B
1928 Tigers 112 24 35 .609 6.74 272 51 .131 .270 .521 0 6 13 0 0 432 691 2B
1929 Tigers 142 50 51 .687 8.41 337 77 .192 .336 .604 0 6 11 0 0 439 715 2B
1930 Tigers 133 32 36 .622 7.91 326 78 .205 .349 .592 0 7 13 0 0 437 699 2B
1931 Tigers 62 2 11 .518 5.97 165 33 .120 .230 .493 0 0 2 0 0 270 414 2B
1932 Tigers 117 19 30 .579 6.84 307 74 .199 .324 .550 0 3 3 0 0 445 692 2B
1933 Tigers 121 28 27 .617 7.25 294 60 .143 .260 .524 0 3 6 0 0 434 705 2B
1934 Tigers 148 64 73 .740 9.62 311 68 .161 .344 .592 0 3 5 0 0 400 708 2B
1935 Tigers 133 45 52 .682 8.04 306 59 .172 .320 .571 0 3 17 0 0 430 709 2B
1936 Tigers 162 65 77 .719 10.08 356 87 .201 .337 .613 0 4 3 0 0 418 731 2B
1937 Tigers 144 52 70 .692 10.29 293 55 .149 .328 .597 0 1 5 0 0 364 660 2B
1938 Tigers 130 38 43 .655 8.49 276 57 .180 .401 .592 0 4 3 0 0 398 687 2B
1939 Tigers 100 29 36 .653 9.15 221 51 .219 .397 .598 0 1 11 0 7 295 486 2B
1940 Tigers 111 26 36 .621 8.03 230 46 .134 .350 .541 0 3 10 0 9 373 629 2B
1941 Tigers 55 -20 -5 .363 4.17 132 26 .083 .303 .408 0 3 3 0 11 356 537 2B
1942 Tigers 6 0 0 .479 4.91 15 1 .067 .222 .423 0 0 0 0 0 33 52 2B
TOTALS 1828 444 581 .624 7.62 4257 904 .160 .314 .551 0 51 141 0 27 6278 10237
LG AVERAGE 1345 0 0 .500 5.60 3529 710 .131 .253 .478 0 38 168 0 30 6278 9531
POS AVERAGE 1211 -139 0 .450 5.05 3246 634 .114 .240 .456 0 35 184 0 30 6278 9406


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[RedsManRick]

If you figure that other than a homer driving in one's self, most extra base hits will drive in the same number of runs. Abreu has 51 extra base hits this year, Jeter 48. So while they might not be driving themselves home too often, they are getting the types of hits that plate batters.

Now if Ichiro has driving in 100 runs, then I'd be very impressed.

[BoydsOfSummer]

Jeter has had a monster year, one of the best of his career. Regarding exactly your point, I have been wondering for several weeks whether his "low" homer numbers will prevent him from winning MVP. If he had 35+ I think he'd be a shoo-in; as it is I think he is certainly worth consideration, especially considering how the Yankees have pulled ahead in that race.

BTW they were losing 5-1 to Kansas City tonight -- then had a 10-run eighth. Couldn't they have just sent maybe two of those runs over to the Reds tonight?


Larkin won his MVP with 15 homers.

[RedsManRick]

Larkin won his MVP with 15 homers.

Barry was also 51 of 56(!) in SB that year and put up a line of .319/.394/.492 while playing gold glove defense. Barry beat out a Coors inflated Dante Bichette that year, though perhaps the real loser was a 19-2, 1.63 ERA Greg Maddux.

Neither Jeter nor Abreu was as complete a player as Larkin was in his Prime, even if he didn't quite excel as much with the stick. I'm trying to remember where I saw it, but somebody said the other day that Larkin was Jeter before Jeter was Jeter.

[BoydsOfSummer]

I'm replaying the 1995 season in Diamond Mind. Through 37 games and 158 AB's,Larkin is: .348/.413/.481 with 19/6 steals; 10 2B, 3 triples. He's big fun.

[vaticanplum]

Well, David Ortiz certainly doesn't seem to think that Jeter is worthy of MVP due to his "low" HR total.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790

Some choice cuts:

"But they'll vote for a position player, use that as an excuse. They're talking about [Derek] Jeter a lot, right? He's done a great job, he's having a great season, but Jeter is not a 40-homer hitter or an RBI guy. It doesn't matter how much you've done for your ball club, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games."

"Don't get me wrong -- he's a great player, having a great season, but he's got a lot of guys in that lineup," Ortiz continued. "Top to bottom, you've got a guy who can hurt you. Come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be."

First of all, if that's not a knock on Ortiz's own teammates, I don't know what is. Secondly, one of the reasons that Ortiz sees as many good pitches as he does is because he's hitting in front of MANNY FREAKING RAMIREZ.

Ortiz also noted that Alex Rodriguez won the MVP in 2003, despite the fact his Texas Rangers finished last in the AL West. That season, A-Rod hit .298 with 47 home runs and 118 RBI.

"I'm right there," he said, "but I'm not going to win it. They give it to [Rodriguez] one year, even though his team was in last place, so now they can't play that BS anymore, just because your team didn't make it. They gave it to Alex that year because of his numbers. But they always have a reason to vote for whatever, so that's why I don't worry about it."

Oh, you don't worry about it, do you? Crikes, bitter much? How can anyone be so upset on losing MVP to A-Rod with the year that he had last year? He beat Ortiz in nearly every offensive category -- that completely apart from the whole "position player" or "helping the team" argument.

David Ortiz is a wonderful ballplayer and usually comes across as a nice guy, but this is unbelievably absurd. He's batting .288 this year to Jeter's .345; his team is all but out of the playoffs and Jeter has helped his team tremendously to an almost guaranteed playoff berth, in a year when two of the Yanks' offensive keys have been out almost the whole season. And that's not even the point really -- I can name, right now, at least half a dozen guys who are far more worthy of the award than Ortiz.

Insane. And it's mind-boggling to think of how the entire press, all over the country, would have reacted to this had A-Rod said anything resembling any of these remarks. Big Papi says them and it flies completely under the radar.

[REDREAD]

Well, David Ortiz certainly doesn't seem to think that Jeter is worthy of MVP due to his "low" HR total.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790

Some choice cuts:

" the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games."




Agree with all your points.. The hole in Ortiz's logic I see is this: If you knock in 100 runs, why does it matter if you did it with 40 HR or 50 doubles?
Why is the 40 HR mark so important to him? (other than the fact that it helps his case).

[Goten]

Well, David Ortiz certainly doesn't seem to think that Jeter is worthy of MVP due to his "low" HR total.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2582790

Some choice cuts:

"But they'll vote for a position player, use that as an excuse. They're talking about [Derek] Jeter a lot, right? He's done a great job, he's having a great season, but Jeter is not a 40-homer hitter or an RBI guy. It doesn't matter how much you've done for your ball club, the bottom line is, the guy who hits 40 home runs and knocks in 100, that's the guy you know helped your team win games."

"Don't get me wrong -- he's a great player, having a great season, but he's got a lot of guys in that lineup," Ortiz continued. "Top to bottom, you've got a guy who can hurt you. Come hit in this lineup, see how good you can be."

First of all, if that's not a knock on Ortiz's own teammates, I don't know what is. Secondly, one of the reasons that Ortiz sees as many good pitches as he does is because he's hitting in front of MANNY FREAKING RAMIREZ.

Ortiz also noted that Alex Rodriguez won the MVP in 2003, despite the fact his Texas Rangers finished last in the AL West. That season, A-Rod hit .298 with 47 home runs and 118 RBI.

"I'm right there," he said, "but I'm not going to win it. They give it to [Rodriguez] one year, even though his team was in last place, so now they can't play that BS anymore, just because your team didn't make it. They gave it to Alex that year because of his numbers. But they always have a reason to vote for whatever, so that's why I don't worry about it."

Oh, you don't worry about it, do you? Crikes, bitter much? How can anyone be so upset on losing MVP to A-Rod with the year that he had last year? He beat Ortiz in nearly every offensive category -- that completely apart from the whole "position player" or "helping the team" argument.

David Ortiz is a wonderful ballplayer and usually comes across as a nice guy, but this is unbelievably absurd. He's batting .288 this year to Jeter's .345; his team is all but out of the playoffs and Jeter has helped his team tremendously to an almost guaranteed playoff berth, in a year when two of the Yanks' offensive keys have been out almost the whole season. And that's not even the point really -- I can name, right now, at least half a dozen guys who are far more worthy of the award than Ortiz.

Insane. And it's mind-boggling to think of how the entire press, all over the country, would have reacted to this had A-Rod said anything resembling any of these remarks. Big Papi says them and it flies completely under the radar.

Ortiz claimed he was misquoted.http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060912&content_id=1659130&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb