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Tony Cloninger
09-06-2006, 03:25 PM
He was not taking him out......Dunn needs his rest in between pitching changes.

I thought the RA AB was good......Strike 1 and 2 where barely that.

Another ump who has to call any close pitch on 2-0 or 3-0 a strike.

Ross, i thought, had that one. Better pitch location and a little lower than RF pitch....but he almost hit out and it barely looked like he was trying to swing.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:25 PM
With all the fresh arms in the bullpen, why is Ryan Franklin still in this game?

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:25 PM
Not that it has anything to do with anything, but the Giants TV guys spent a lot of the game on Monday checking out the pretty girls from the both with binoculars.

Better than checking out the guys....

VR
09-06-2006, 03:26 PM
not sure if this was posted..


This morning's saline-enhanced MRI revealed that Eddie Guardado has a torn ulnar collateral ligament -- the injury that requires Tommy John surgery for a return. Guardado is done for a while after this one, but we haven't had a chance to talk with him yet to see what his plans are.

Guardado was moved to the 60-day DL to make room for Jason Johnson on the 40-man

Joseph
09-06-2006, 03:26 PM
With all the fresh arms in the bullpen, why is Ryan Franklin still in this game?

Why is he still on the roster is the better question.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:27 PM
Better than checking out the guys....

Word for word, what I was getting ready to say.

:laugh:

guttle11
09-06-2006, 03:27 PM
Has Majewski pitched since coming off the DL yet?

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 03:27 PM
Ellison doubles to right center.

Tony Cloninger
09-06-2006, 03:28 PM
My advice to you EG is to start drinking heavily.

That is too bad.....i liked his pitching efforts for this team. He did not pitch worse when he came over.....as opposed to most of the other relievers who have.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:28 PM
Has Majewski pitched since coming off the DL yet?

Yep. He took the loss Sunday in San Diego.

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 03:28 PM
Has Majewski pitched since coming off the DL yet?
Yes he pitched in SD last weekend.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:28 PM
Has Majewski pitched since coming off the DL yet?

If that's what you want to call it...

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:28 PM
Comeon Jerry, let him give up some more. He's a scrappy vet.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:29 PM
Cormier coming in to face the lefty.

Shack must be on a date...

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:29 PM
Has Majewski pitched since coming off the DL yet?you missed the SD meltdown in a tie game on Sunday. Jerry often has exquisite timing.

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 03:29 PM
Finally Franklin is out of the game.

CrackerJack
09-06-2006, 03:29 PM
Franklin, Johnson, Michalak, Woo, oh my!

What a bevy of talented and entertaining arms we've acquired here in our little town. What a treat for all!

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:30 PM
Cormier coming in to face the lefty.

Shack must be on a date...or maybe the leg fell off of SS. I don't get the narron man-love for Cormier. He has been nothing but awful since becoming a Red. Shoeneweis has better stuff and has been more effctive but he was nowhere to be found on Sunday ... or now.

Kc61
09-06-2006, 03:30 PM
No knock on Ross, whose been good, but Valentin never catches anymore. Valentin is a pretty good hitter and a lefty. In a day after night situation like this, shouldn't Valentin have started one game (probably yesterday against the righty)?

I think Ross is hurt by playing too much and the team is hurt by sitting Javy so much.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:30 PM
Cormier coming in to face the lefty.

Shack must be on a date...

:laugh:

Rheal gets out of it on one pitch though.

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 03:31 PM
Finley fouls out to the catcher on the first pitch. 3-1 Giants mid 7th.

guttle11
09-06-2006, 03:32 PM
The last three times I've turned off the game and gone to just radio the Reds have come back to win.

I just turned the TV off.

You can thank me later.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 03:32 PM
The numbers of Majewski would make any trade look bad. But my point was that the numbers of the guys the Nats got don't really impress either.

Kearns and Lopez have name recognition to us. Most people in New England (where I live) would not be able to tell you who either of them are.

Ok, but the point is that we got guys with NEGATIVE value .. All three of the Washington guys have hurt a lot more than they've helped.

Kearns and Lopez aren't having HOF seasons, but they are helping the team win at times.

Also, Lopez's RBI total is a poor way to judge him. He's a top of the order hitter. Freel only has 3 RBI in August, but don't judge him on that, judge him on his .601 OPS for August.

It doesn't matter to me if some people in New England have never heard of Kearns and Lopez. I bet even fewer had heard of Bray and Maj before the trade. The point is that we gave away assets for players that have probably performed below replacement level this season (or at the very least, way below average).

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:32 PM
CHris Booker in pitching for Reds East

CTA513
09-06-2006, 03:33 PM
No knock on Ross, whose been good, but Valentin never catches anymore. Valentin is a pretty good hitter and a lefty. In a day after night situation like this, shouldn't Valentin have started one game (probably yesterday against the righty)?

I think Ross is hurt by playing too much and the team is hurt by sitting Javy so much.

Arroyo pitched yesterday and Ross almost always catches Arroyo.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:33 PM
What is that, five fly ball outs to the warning track today?

When it rains, it pours....

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:34 PM
:laugh:

Rheal gets out of it on one pitch though.

Yes he did.

CTA513
09-06-2006, 03:34 PM
CHris Booker in pitching for Reds East

Washington has a 1 run lead in the 6th.
Booker gives up a single to the first batter and walks the second batter.
Now Pujols is up with 2 runners on and 0 outs.

:eek:

Cedric
09-06-2006, 03:34 PM
I'm willing to go out on a limb and bet my incredible gi joe collection that the Reds don't score again today.

Maybe even bet they don't get another base runner.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:34 PM
The Reds seem likely to go down without a whimper

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:34 PM
No knock on Ross, whose been good, but Valentin never catches anymore. Valentin is a pretty good hitter and a lefty. In a day after night situation like this, shouldn't Valentin have started one game (probably yesterday against the righty)?

I think Ross is hurt by playing too much and the team is hurt by sitting Javy so much.


I'm surprised they didn't pick up a Korean catcher to catch Sun Woo...

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 03:35 PM
When is Griffey going to quit so Denorfia can play everyday?

I hope that Deno never plays every day. He's not good enough. When Jr retires, the Reds are going to have to get someone better than Deno.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:35 PM
Hollandsworth with a prototypical Reds at bat....strike looking, swing at ball in dirt, strikeout swinging.

Faaaaaaannntastic.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:35 PM
Holly Ks...he seems to do better when he starts.

OldXOhio
09-06-2006, 03:36 PM
Olmedo, Hopper, Denorfia....yeah, this is looking a lot like Septembers of the past.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:38 PM
Olmedo, Hopper, Denorfia....yeah, this is looking a lot like Septembers of the past.He's saving Hatty and Valentin for extra innings. The pitcher spot is unlikely to come up again.

CTA513
09-06-2006, 03:38 PM
Corriea with a 7 pitch inning.
Hes now pitched 1 1/3 innings on 9 pitches.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:39 PM
This is as painful (for me anyway) as it's been all year long to watch the game.

Describing the offense as putrid would be giving it too much credit.

oneupper
09-06-2006, 03:39 PM
He's saving Hatty and Valentin for extra innings. The pitcher spot is unlikely to come up again.

Maybe (god forbid) he may hit for Clayton!

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:40 PM
Think Wayne sits around saying "What have I done"? and will the management find out?

BRM
09-06-2006, 03:40 PM
Apathy has started to set in out in Redsland.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:40 PM
The Reds doing there best to make Arroyo's masterpiece last night mean very little.

Time's running out Reds...and I'm not talking about for just today's game.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 03:40 PM
At $1.7 million next year, I think Freel is going to be around. He is a good ballplayer, but his hitting does tend to go downhill over the course of a season.


And to think, some people thought Kearns was "too expensive" at 1.8 million this year. Given that the average arb raise is about 900k, it hurts that Freel is going to be our starting RF next year unless Wayne can dig up something better.

Point being, that Kearns would not have cost that much more than Freel next year.

Tony Cloninger
09-06-2006, 03:40 PM
You can play the Jerry should have brought in this guy or that guy....or where is Scott....Brian or Waldo game .....every game...but this bullpen can melt down at any time. JN clearly does not help himself sometimes...but every bullpen change is constantly dissected when there is clearly no dead on pitcher JN can bring....before the 8th-9th innings, not named Weathers and SS.

You cannot bring in those guys to pitch 2-3 innings during all the close games.
But if you look at the numbers those 2 are the only ones you can count on.

It would be nice to ahve Ted Abernathy go 2-3 here....or Clay Carroll go another 2-3 the next day. But those days of having a bullpen with about 2-3 dependable guys who can go that long are over.

NOW...if the game is tied or close...and he does not bring in Weathers and SS then go ahead and blast away.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:41 PM
won't use Stormy in a tie game on SUnday(instead he used D'Artagnan) but uses him with a 2 run deficit today.

Narron must make up new bullpen usage rules on a daily basis. There is no rhyme or reason to who he puts in the game.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:41 PM
Apathy has started to set in out in Redsland.

I try not to get too down on things, but today has really bugged me for some reason.

Probably because last night's win gave me a fall sense of hope and watching the offense perform today has brough me crashing back down to earth.

dabvu2498
09-06-2006, 03:41 PM
Apathy has started to set in out in Redsland.

I disagree... but I think it would be inappropriate to "sing" the Bengals fight song on a Reds game thread. :)

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 03:42 PM
Think Wayne sits around saying "What have I done"? and will the management find out?

What has he done?

If your implying that he the Reds would be in better shape had they stood pat, no, I don't think he thinks that at all.

SteelSD
09-06-2006, 03:42 PM
I swear that I've never seen so many screaming liners smoked at fielders in a single game before. It's just shot after shot after shot.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:42 PM
I disagree... but I think it would be inappropriate to "sing" the Bengals fight song on a Reds game thread. :)

"Welcome to the Jungle" is better :)

Tony Cloninger
09-06-2006, 03:43 PM
Maybe Weathers was not able to go that day?

I agree there is no rythem.....but like i posted earlier....it cannot be Weathers and SS every game.

OldXOhio
09-06-2006, 03:43 PM
Time's running out Reds...and I'm not talking about for just today's game.

I'm afraid it already has. It'd be one thing if the team were losing some games while playing inspired ball. They just seem out of gas.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:43 PM
What has he done? since the beginning of July there Reds have experienced a decent size net loss of talent, you cannot argue or explain it away.

mbgrayson
09-06-2006, 03:44 PM
Way too much first and second pitch swinging. Patience is a virtue!

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:45 PM
Maybe Weathers was not able to go that day?Right ... Weathers had not pitched in 4 days.

Tony Cloninger
09-06-2006, 03:45 PM
In 2004.....they died in July.

Thsi year it was late Aug.

Maybe next year or 2 years from now it will be on the last day of the year......so we can forget about 1999 and start a new chapter on what could have been in 2007-08.

You know this dying on the vine thing....will only inspire more veterans who know how to win for next year......don't you? :D

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 03:45 PM
won't use Stormy in a tie game on SUnday(instead he used D'Artagnan) but uses him with a 2 run deficit today.


Give up a run in a tie game and your down 1. Give up a run today and your down 3.

I'm not surprised he went to Weathers.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:45 PM
Way too much first and second pitch swinging. Patience is a virtue!not to this front office. Scrappy guys that put the ball in play are the way to go.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 03:46 PM
This morning's saline-enhanced MRI revealed that Eddie Guardado has a torn ulnar collateral ligament -- the injury that requires Tommy John surgery for a return. Guardado is done for a while after this one, but we haven't had a chance to talk with him yet to see what his plans are.

Guardado was moved to the 60-day DL to make room for Jason Johnson on the 40-man ..

And just about a week ago, Doc Hollywood said he was fine and cleared him to start long tossing as part of a plan to get back on the mound.. He's done it again. I guess Eddie complained enough for Doc to actually try to figure out what was wrong, or Doc figured it was ok to tell the truth since he's getting some business out of it.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Freel singles with the bases empty.

Better late than never, I guess.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Give up a run in a tie game and your down 1. Give up a run today and your down 3.

I'm not surprised he went to Weathers.so what is your point?

Tony Cloninger
09-06-2006, 03:46 PM
Perdoname Ricardo.....no tenia esa informaccion.

Than it does not make sense.......

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 03:46 PM
One pitch away from tying this sucker up.

NJReds
09-06-2006, 03:47 PM
In NY: Dave Williams has gone 6 innings, 5 hits, 1 ER, 0 BB, 4 K as the Mets lead Atlanta, 3-1.

oneupper
09-06-2006, 03:47 PM
Hat for Clayton, Jerry. How hard is that?

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:47 PM
did jerry come through with the PH for Clayton?

registerthis
09-06-2006, 03:48 PM
In NY: Dave Williams has gone 6 innings, 5 hits, 1 ER, 0 BB, 4 K as the Mets lead Atlanta, 3-1.

Good for him.

He'll implode again, I don't want it to be for the Reds. Let the Mets take the brunt of it.

CTA513
09-06-2006, 03:48 PM
In NY: Dave Williams has gone 6 innings, 5 hits, 1 ER, 0 BB, 4 K as the Mets lead Atlanta, 3-1.

I guess you can pitch better when you dont have a hurt shoulder.

:devil:

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:48 PM
In NY: Dave Williams has gone 6 innings, 5 hits, 1 ER, 0 BB, 4 K as the Mets lead Atlanta, 3-1.

Perhaps outright releasing him wasn't the best idea....

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Hat for Clayton, Jerry. How hard is that?Depends on if you IQ gets out of double digits

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Jason Johnson warming in the bullpen...

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:48 PM
Royce...take one for the team.

OldXOhio
09-06-2006, 03:48 PM
did jerry come through with the PH for Clayton?

you can't PH for your two hole hitter here. He wouldn't be in that spot unless he was proficient with the bat.

oneupper
09-06-2006, 03:48 PM
did jerry come through with the PH for Clayton?

What do you think?

SteelSD
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
did jerry come through with the PH for Clayton?

No. He's now arguing that he got hit in the arm by the last pitch.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
Perhaps outright releasing him wasn't the best idea....and certainly not when you give away a potential replacement for Frenchie

Red Leader
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
did jerry come through with the PH for Clayton?

Go ahead and guess. No rep points will be awarded for the correct answer. it's just too predictable.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
Think Wayne sits around saying "What have I done"? and will the management find out?


:lol: He's hoping he wakes up and it's all a dream. :laugh:

oneupper
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
And that's why we carry four shortstops.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
Go ahead and guess. No rep points will be awarded for the correct answer. it's just too predictable.someone pointed out he was saving Hatty/Javy just for that since he didn't use them in the 7th. Right.

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
so what is your point?

What was yours?

Weathers can't come in during the 8th inning of a huge game because we trail by two because he didn't pitch the other day in a tie game?

Good logic.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:50 PM
No. He's now arguing that he got hit in the arm by the last pitch.should've stuck his head in the way.

NJReds
09-06-2006, 03:50 PM
Jason Johnson warming in the bullpen...

Where's the "white flag" smiley?

This one will do: :bang:

or this one: :barf:

or maybe this one: :runawaycr

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:51 PM
What was yours?

Leverage ... if you understand the concept you will get the point.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:51 PM
Jerry really deserves a GIDP here

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 03:52 PM
And that's why we carry four shortstops.
4 shortstops, 3 catchers and endless mediocre relief pitchers. It's a dream roster.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Wow...Clayton.

Hmmm...

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Clayton comes through!!!

Basehit now ties it!

Come on, Rich!!!!!!

BRM
09-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Clayton with the RBI double!!!

:clap:

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Jerry really deserves a GIDP here

What was that?

guttle11
09-06-2006, 03:52 PM
Rich is going yard...

SteelSD
09-06-2006, 03:53 PM
Jerry really deserves a GIDP here

Instead, he gets an ace when hitting on a 20.

OldXOhio
09-06-2006, 03:53 PM
Has Durham's home run come down yet?

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:53 PM
Wow...Clayton.

Hmmm...Ignorance is bliss. His heart paid off that time.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:53 PM
If the Reds get the lead and Jason Johnson comes in, I will organize a protest at GABP

:)

NJReds
09-06-2006, 03:53 PM
Clayton with the RBI double!!!

:clap:


Jerry Narron: Super Genius.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 03:54 PM
Give up a run in a tie game and your down 1. Give up a run today and your down 3.

I'm not surprised he went to Weathers.

I disagree. You use Weathers in a tie game because you want your best relievers pitching in games that you have the best chance to win. Leverage the good relievers in the important innings.

By your logic, Franklin should never pitch in a game when we're behind, because he'll increase the deficit, but Franklin should pitch in games where we have the lead because we can "afford" to give up runs. That makes no sense.

dabvu2498
09-06-2006, 03:54 PM
Wow...Clayton.

Hmmm...

Yes... keep blasting... it worked last night with Hollandsworth... keep blasting!!!

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:54 PM
Instead, he gets an ace when hitting on a 20.and thus it becomes a smart play in hindsight

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:54 PM
Marty votes for a bunt....

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:54 PM
RA is really the right guy to hit in this situation. Nail one to right Nature Boy

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:54 PM
Come on Rich, put the ball in play.....

Highlifeman21
09-06-2006, 03:55 PM
I still hate Royce Clayton

Kc61
09-06-2006, 03:55 PM
Dunn is going to come through this time.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:55 PM
Marty votes for a bunt....AAAAAHHHHHH

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 03:55 PM
Dunn's slump ends next at bat...

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 03:55 PM
And what would be the smarter play, pinch hitting Castro?

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:55 PM
Dunn is going to come through this time.they will pitch around him unless he chooses to get himself out.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:56 PM
OHHHHH NOOO

That close!!!

BRM
09-06-2006, 03:56 PM
Nail one to right Nature Boy

He tried but it went foul.

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 03:56 PM
REDREAD, the 8th inning of today's game was plenty important. Weathers was in there.

OldXOhio
09-06-2006, 03:56 PM
Cedric, hand em over. All of em. Including the one w/ kung fu grip.

dabvu2498
09-06-2006, 03:56 PM
they will pitch around him unless he chooses to get himself out.
Steve Kline will be the man... he's tough on Dunn.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 03:57 PM
Leverage ... if you understand the concept you will get the point.


Got to keep the game close for when Johsnon comes in ;) :laugh:

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:57 PM
REDREAD, the 8th inning of today's game was plenty important. Weathers was in there.not as important as the 8th inning of a tie game on Sunday.

VR
09-06-2006, 03:57 PM
they will pitch around him unless he chooses to get himself out.


Steve Kline

where's the split for Reds lefties vs. lefty relievers this year

flyer85
09-06-2006, 03:57 PM
Steve Kline

where's the split for Reds lefties vs. lefty relievers this yearHe'll come in pitch carefully to Dunn and be gone

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 03:58 PM
Aurilia pops out to short. 1 out.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:58 PM
It's going to be up to Edwin because the chances of Dunn doing anything against Kline are slim to none.

BRM
09-06-2006, 03:58 PM
Rich pops out to SS. 1 down.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 03:59 PM
Having Aurilia go at it is the right move there. No way do I have Rich give himself up with Dunn following him.

dabvu2498
09-06-2006, 04:00 PM
That bunt sure is lookin good right about now.

Highlifeman21
09-06-2006, 04:00 PM
FSN Bay Area announcers giving Narron the business for not having RA bunt Clayton over.

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 04:00 PM
not as important as the 8th inning of a tie game on Sunday.

More important IMO. The Reds need this win.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:00 PM
REDREAD, the 8th inning of today's game was plenty important. Weathers was in there.

Ok, the point is that a tie game is also important. Why not use him there?

I'm not saying today is a sure loss by any means. People are wondering why Weathers is pitching when we are behind but not when the game is tied.
That's all.

I do agree that it's not a bad idea to use Weathers today because he's had 4 days rest (IIRC). Although it is quite humorous that Johnson is warming up to come in after Weathers if we don't get the lead.. that kind of shoots the theory that Jerry is trying to keep the game close (at least in my mind).

Hopefully, Johnson does not come in.

Doc. Scott
09-06-2006, 04:00 PM
I'm back from donating blood. I told the attendants the slash marks were from reading too many game threads on a baseball message board.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:00 PM
Having Aurilia go at it is the right move there. No way do I have Rich give himself up with Dunn following him.without a doubt. He is your 3rd place hitter, he should not be bunting. Dunn is more likely to hit a HR than a sac fly.

Doc. Scott
09-06-2006, 04:01 PM
So Dunn watches two straight strikes with the game on the line. Good lord.

I can deal with 160 Ks a year and I'm all for the guy drawing a bunch of walks, but on an 0-1 count with runners on base, he should be a little more aggressive.

EDIT: Then he strikes out swinging.

BRM
09-06-2006, 04:03 PM
Dunn K's. Two down.

mbgrayson
09-06-2006, 04:03 PM
Dunn Ks....Ouch! Go Eddie!

guttle11
09-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Adam Dunn is completely incapable of hitting a breaking ball from a lefty.

He needs to work on that.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Boy oh boy...

NJReds
09-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Dunn K's. Two down.

A common theme lately. That's why a bunt would've been meaningless.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Adam Dunn is just brutal sometimes.

registerthis
09-06-2006, 04:04 PM
E-E, double in the gap.

You can do it!

CTA513
09-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Dunn might have a chance to break his own strike out record.

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 04:05 PM
I'm not arguing for or against the non use on Sunday. I missed that game.

My point is it has nothing to do with today.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:05 PM
I swear when Adam is going like this I could go strike him out.

OldXOhio
09-06-2006, 04:05 PM
Unacceptable at bat by Dunn. Completely unacceptable.

traderumor
09-06-2006, 04:06 PM
Dunn is tiresome to watch and listen to.

Kc61
09-06-2006, 04:06 PM
Dunn might have a chance to break his own strike out record.

Someone will soon explain again why it doesn't matter that Dunn has all these strikeouts.

Anyone who thinks Wayne Krivsky is paying this guy $13 million in 2008 is, IMO, mistaken.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:06 PM
Unacceptable at bat by Dunn. Completely unacceptable.

Sadly, you could see it coming from a mile away.

:(

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:06 PM
So Dunn watches two straight strikes with the game on the line. Good lord.

I can deal with 160 Ks a year and I'm all for the guy drawing a bunch of walks, but on an 0-1 count with runners on base, he should be a little more aggressive.

EDIT: Then he strikes out swinging.

That's why I want Dunn permanently in the #2 slot. He's a great hitter, but I'm going to partially agree with Marty that he doesn't have the mentality of a cleanup hitter. He's way too OBP focused. Sometimes you've got to get that run in. If the ump is calling it a strike in that situation, you've got to swing, don't let yourself get in an 0-2 hole, waiting for the perfect pitch to swing at. Kline isn't likely to give you anything good.

BRM
09-06-2006, 04:08 PM
EE works a walk. Two on, two out.

GridironGrace
09-06-2006, 04:08 PM
Hitters count
need this run edwin

walk works


LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ROSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:08 PM
I'm not arguing for or against the non use on Sunday. I missed that game.

My point is it has nothing to do with today.

And I do agree with you. When looking at today's game, it's not bad to make use of Weathers. Heck, the guy has had 4 days rest, the game is close. Run him out there.

Heck, I think that's a first. We agree on something. :laugh:

Tony Cloninger
09-06-2006, 04:08 PM
I know Phillips is an annoying idiot.....BUT what did he say about AD earlier that was really wrong.

He had elaborated more and said K's you can deal with....but when runners are in scoring position you need someone who can make contact more than he does. Especially with a runner on third.....and less than 2 outs...which is where Clayton should have been after RA's hard but unproductive AB.

How is that wrong? How often does Dunn prove that wrong? Not as much as we probably all like.
Or maybe that is just my perception of it.

Either way.....i do not think it matters with this deficient in clutch situations hitting team....for the last 2 weeks.

It could have been Rod Carew up there and he would have K'd.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:08 PM
David Ross is due.

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 04:08 PM
Ross is due!

Highlifeman21
09-06-2006, 04:08 PM
EE works a walk. Two on, two out.

Great AB by EE

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Oh.

My.

God.

Another first pitch out after a base on balls.

I can't take much more of this.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Awful. Absolutely awful.

guttle11
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Unbelieveable.

BRM
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Ross swings at the first pitch and hits a shallow pop fly to center. Inning over.

mbgrayson
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
First pitch swinging after a walk......arrrrrrgh!

MaineRed
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
DAMN!

Sorry Grande.

Highlifeman21
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Way to swing at the first thing you see, Ross....

Man this team breaks my heart

registerthis
09-06-2006, 04:09 PM
Bah.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:10 PM
And, as usually is the case...if the Reds are going to rally in the 9th, it's going to be the bottom of the order.

:(

westofyou
09-06-2006, 04:10 PM
Being aggressive isn't without its warts either.

The Reds are on a streak of putridness with the bat that is perhaps the worst of the season.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:10 PM
Someone will soon explain again why it doesn't matter that Dunn has all these strikeouts. it doesn't, Ryan Howard is not far behind in Ks(154). Do they matter to him?


Anyone who thinks Wayne Krivsky is paying this guy $13 million in 2008 is, IMO, mistaken.actually he won't be paying Dunn whatever the number is next year. He will be traded this off-season.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:10 PM
What a collasal disappointment.

Red Leader
09-06-2006, 04:11 PM
And, as usually is the case...if the Reds are going to rally in the 9th, it's going to be the bottom of the order.

:(


Jerry Narron anticipated this. That's why he didn't use Mr. Hatt earlier.

Falls City Beer
09-06-2006, 04:11 PM
I'm sure they'll break out of their funk when they're mathematically eliminated.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:11 PM
What a collasal disappointment.that has been the last two months.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 04:11 PM
20,571 in attendance.

I don't know if there's that many.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:12 PM
Shoenwies is a good choice here.

Tony Cloninger
09-06-2006, 04:12 PM
Cripes Ross......2nd time you expect a fat pitch after a BB before you....and you do not get it.......jeepers creepers is about as calm as i can write while i pretend to be JN and yell at Ross for 2 minutes while telling him not to bother putting on his gear.

NJReds
09-06-2006, 04:12 PM
it doesn't, Ryan Howard is not far behind in Ks(154). Do they matter to him?

No, because he is a more productive hitter when he makes contact.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:12 PM
20,571 in attendance.

I don't know if there's that many.

Maybe if you count all the vendors, broadcasters and janitors.....

MAYBE.

SteelSD
09-06-2006, 04:13 PM
it doesn't, Ryan Howard is not far behind in Ks(154). Do they matter to him?

Shhhhhh...quiet you!


actually he won't be paying Dunn whatever the number is next year. He will be traded this off-season.

I'm almost to the point of hoping that happens just for Dunn's sake.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm almost to the point of hoping that happens just for Dunn's sake.

Why?

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 04:14 PM
Schoenwies has been a good pickup

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm sure they'll break out of their funk when they're mathematically eliminated.

Usually that's the case, but this team is just a train wreck now, outside of a few players.

I know the slumps won't last forever, but it seems pretty easy to tame the Reds offense. When Dunn is up, nibble and either walk or K him. Let the rest of the hitters get themselves out. EdE will hurt you a little bit, but he can't win every game by himself. Occasionally Phillips or Ross comes through, but not too often.

westofyou
09-06-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm almost to the point of hoping that happens just for Dunn's sake.

Hank Sauer, Joe Adcock, and perhaps Dunn.

Kinda sad to try and fit the square into the round hole (You know the round hole, it has a haircut like Moe Howard)

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:14 PM
No, because he is a more productive hitter when he makes contact.No, he is a more productive hitter, period. The "when he makes contact" argument adds nothing because if not striking out was important then Howard wouldn't be any good.

OldXOhio
09-06-2006, 04:15 PM
He's a great hitter, but I'm going to partially agree with Marty that he doesn't have the mentality of a cleanup hitter.

Hate to battle over semantics RR, but that's a bit of a stretch to say Dunn's a great hitter. He's a hitter with a good eye and great power. He simply does enough things wrong at the plate to be considered great.

Chip R
09-06-2006, 04:15 PM
I'm almost to the point of hoping that happens just for Dunn's sake.

Unless he radically changes his approach, Dunn is going to catch heat wherever he goes.

westofyou
09-06-2006, 04:15 PM
20,571 in attendance.

I don't know if there's that many.

IIRC today is the first day of many Cincinnati school districts.

oneupper
09-06-2006, 04:15 PM
I was thinking Wise for Ross and then Harris for Wise when they brought a lefty...but..

That would be putting to much pressure on a young player [/Jerry]

BRM
09-06-2006, 04:16 PM
actually he won't be paying Dunn whatever the number is next year. He will be traded this off-season.

Will you stop saying that?

NJReds
09-06-2006, 04:16 PM
I'm almost to the point of hoping that happens just for Dunn's sake.


Why, so he can go somewhere like NY, Boston or Philly? The booing would start on opening day.

He's got it rather easy here in Cincinnati. A few negative words on a message board, sure, but is he really beyond criticism?

Red Leader
09-06-2006, 04:16 PM
Shhhhhh...quiet you!



I'm almost to the point of hoping that happens just for Dunn's sake.


Just watch, they'll trade him to the Astros for Wandy Rodriguez and Aubrey Huff and Astrobuddy will be the most rep'd poster on this board. :evil: :laugh:

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:16 PM
.

Kinda sad to try and fit the square into the round hole (You know the round hole, it has a haircut like Moe Howard)

That's why I like Dunn in the #2 slot. That's his talent, taking pitches and hitting HRs. The round hole is batting him 4th, IMO.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:17 PM
Very nice inning out of Shoenwies.

SteelSD
09-06-2006, 04:17 PM
Why?

To get him to a culture that nurtures his talents and allows him to grow without expecations of who he "should be".

Basically, he deserves to be given a chance with a team that understands him; thus allowing him to maximize his potential. I'm less and less thinking that Cincinnati is that place.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Hate to battle over semantics RR, but that's a bit of a stretch to say Dunn's a great hitter. He's a hitter with a good eye and great power. He simply does enough things wrong at the plate to be considered great.

Well, I can amend it to say either he or EdE is the best hitter on the team.

traderumor
09-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Being aggressive isn't without its warts either.

The Reds are on a streak of putridness with the bat that is perhaps the worst of the season.Adam needs to find a happier place between aggressiveness and passivity at the plate. I say he is overly passive with the prodigious power that masks his inconsistency.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Will you stop saying that?The writing is all over the wall for this one.

Don't worry he'll bring some scrappy-slap-hitting-put-the-ball-in-play defensive SS and a pitcher that can't miss bats.

RedsMan3203
09-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Just got in... and checking box scores...

Kim only threw 56 pitches in 5 innings? WOW!

Red Leader
09-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Very nice inning out of Shoenwies.

He hustles off the field and puts on his batting gloves, ready to make a bigger impact. :laugh:

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:18 PM
Steel,

Adam Dunn has it pretty good hear. He rarely hears it from the crowd when he does something bad.

Put him in any other clubhouse and he gets booed off the field after 90% of his at bats.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:19 PM
Just watch, they'll trade him to the Astros for Wandy Rodriguez and Aubrey Huff and Astrobuddy will be the most rep'd poster on this board. :evil: :laugh:

:laugh: I had forgotten about those rumors.

NJReds
09-06-2006, 04:19 PM
No, he is a more productive hitter, period. The "when he makes contact" argument adds nothing because if not striking out was important then Howard wouldn't be any good.


Okay. So Dunn's problem is that strikeouts aside, he's shown no improvement over the last two years as a hitter. In fact, his numbers have regressed slightly.

Dunn would probably get a free pass on the K's if he was hitting .310 w/140 RBI (or whatever Ryan has).

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:20 PM
Adam needs to find a happier place between aggressiveness and passivity at the plate. I say he is overly passive with the prodigious power that masks his inconsistency.right now the inconsistency is due to a hitch in his swing, his first move at the plate is dropping his hands. A very hard way to hit.

Red Leader
09-06-2006, 04:20 PM
Stanton on for teh close.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:21 PM
Okay. So Dunn's problem is that strikeouts aside, he's shown no improvement over the last two years as a hitter. In fact, his numbers have regressed slightly.

Dunn would probably get a free pass on the K's if he was hitting .310 w/140 RBI (or whatever Ryan has).and you make my argument, it ain't the strikeouts.

Red Leader
09-06-2006, 04:21 PM
Phillips gave that one a ride, but it didn't have the distance.

1 out.

westofyou
09-06-2006, 04:21 PM
right now the inconsistency is due to a hitch in his swing, his first move at the plate is dropping his hands. A very hard way to hit.

I think the guy could use more then a game or two off a year, he' s a big dude.

Heath
09-06-2006, 04:21 PM
The writing is all over the wall for this one.

Don't worry he'll bring some scrappy-slap-hitting-put-the-ball-in-play defensive SS and a pitcher that can't miss bats.

You really are bi-polar aren't you?

guttle11
09-06-2006, 04:21 PM
Okay. So Dunn's problem is that strikeouts aside, he's shown no improvement over the last two years as a hitter. In fact, his numbers have regressed slightly.

Dunn would probably get a free pass on the K's if he was hitting .310 w/140 RBI (or whatever Ryan has).


Can we stop the strikeout debate.

How about saying he needs to be more consistant. and he needs to learn to hit good pitches, not just mistakes.

Folks, Adam Dunn is not someone you build a team around. He's not Ryan Howard. He's a guy that will hit a lot of HR's, and get on base, but is easy to get out with a well placed pitch.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:21 PM
Just got in... and checking box scores...

Kim only threw 56 pitches in 5 innings? WOW!

From the thread reports, it looks like Kim gave up a lot of hard hit balls right at people. The low pitch count isn't necessarily indicative that he had a good game.

I'm not complaining though that he escaped with only giving up two runs.

registerthis
09-06-2006, 04:21 PM
it doesn't, Ryan Howard is not far behind in Ks(154). Do they matter to him?

I'm not sure you want to be comparing Dunn to Howard--at least not this year. Howard's kicking the stuffing out of Dunn in pretty much every conceivable offensive category. I think Dunn's lack of contact would be excused by many more here if he were OPS'ing 1.069 and threatening to hit 60+ HRs and 160+ RBI.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
Juan Castro as the PH? This is going from absurd to sublime.

Red Leader
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
Castro PH's for Mrs. Buttersworth.

Falls City Beer
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
I suppose it's neither here nor there, but Cincy fans booed Dunn when I saw the Reds in July.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
Why is "Fall to Pieces" in my head?

dsmith421
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
Put him in any other clubhouse and he gets booed off the field after 90% of his at bats.

So these fans are going to boo him off the field when he gets a hit or is on base? Those are some pretty freaking stupid fans.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
This team is just totally, 100% snakebit.

Heath
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
Nice catch Farney.

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
I suppose it's neither here nor there, but Cincy fans booed Dunn when I saw the Reds in July.

Why?

NJReds
09-06-2006, 04:22 PM
and you make my argument, it ain't the strikeouts.


Statistically no. In the minds of paying customers, yes.

It ain't fair, but that's life.

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 04:23 PM
Hatteberg hits for Schoenweis

CrackerJack
09-06-2006, 04:23 PM
Dunn misses eating bags of Doritos and playing video games with his buddy Austin in the clubhouse, becoming a better hitter/fielder doesn't seem to be as important anymore. He can coast on what he has and make millions, and Griffey can be nice to the visiting kids in the clubhouse and we all feel warm and fuzzy and forget losing records and underachieving players.

Highlifeman21
09-06-2006, 04:23 PM
Great catch by the SF LF

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:23 PM
Nothing much left to say.....

:(

Matt700wlw
09-06-2006, 04:23 PM
Pig vomit.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:23 PM
I'm not sure you want to be comparing Dunn to Howard--at least not this year. Howard's kicking the stuffing out of Dunn in pretty much every conceivable offensive category. and yet has almost as many Ks. Which kinda leads me to beleive that there is something there that makes the difference, and it must be something other than strikeouts.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:23 PM
Castro PH's for Mrs. Buttersworth.


OMG, Jerry, come on. :bang:

thanks for throwing in the towel. Even if this works, it's a dumb move.

registerthis
09-06-2006, 04:24 PM
...and that's that.

Phooey.

Falls City Beer
09-06-2006, 04:24 PM
Why?

A strikeout.

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 04:24 PM
I didn't get to hear the last play gamecenter says Hatteberg grounded bunt out to left.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:24 PM
That 9th inning was at warp speed. Must be some spread in the clubhouse.

VR
09-06-2006, 04:24 PM
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/US/01/08/postagerate.hike.ap/storyvert.stamp.ap.jpg

guttle11
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
and yet has almost as many Ks. Which kinda leads me to beleive that there is something there that makes the difference, and it must be something other than strikeouts.


The fact that Howard's just a better player, maybe?

pedro
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
any team that PH's Juan Castro with the game on the line deserves to lose.

traderumor
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
To get him to a culture that nurtures his talents and allows him to grow without expecations of who he "should be".

Basically, he deserves to be given a chance with a team that understands him; thus allowing him to maximize his potential. I'm less and less thinking that Cincinnati is that place.He is played every day and the Reds coaching staff and management have given media answers for his strikeouts, but its clear they consider his production and overall approach acceptable. I don't think a trade is going to come because he drives observers like fans and the media nutty with the inconsistency. I think he is understood fine by those making decisions. That doesn't mean they might not jump on a trade offer if someone who really, really appreciates his offense comes along.

Ltlabner
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
Statistically no. In the minds of paying customers, yes.

It ain't fair, but that's life.

If he hit ground outs instead of K's people would be just as torked. Right or wrong they would be making the same complaints. An out is an out.

redsfan30
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
I'm fine with Castro hitting there.

He's had some big hits in big spots this year.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
I suppose it's neither here nor there, but Cincy fans booed Dunn when I saw the Reds in July.

Did he make an error? I'm not defending booing, but generally I've only seen Dunn booed here when he makes a goof on defense.

SteelSD
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
Steel,

Adam Dunn has it pretty good hear. He rarely hears it from the crowd when he does something bad.

Put him in any other clubhouse and he gets booed off the field after 90% of his at bats.

I'm talking about management culture, not fan base. Dunn's an impressionable guy. Always has been. Wants to do well. Wants to fit in. Does dumb things because of it.

What he's needed for a couple years now is for someone to sit him down and tell him to stop listening to anyone but himself and stop taking cues from culture changes as evidence that he somehow needs to change to follow along. He needs to be pushed to do nothing other than what he already knows how to do.

Get him on a team that'll push that way, and you've got a legend.

westofyou
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
That 9th inning was at warp speed. Must be some spread in the clubhouse.

They were reading the game thread, afraid they might K if they go deep.... gotta get those Doritos I guess...:help:

oneupper
09-06-2006, 04:25 PM
I didn't get to hear the last play gamecenter says Hatteberg grounded bunt out to left.

Fly out to left on the first pitch.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:26 PM
The fact that Howard's just a better player, maybe?I would say hitter, but then he is a better hitter than anyone not named Pujols.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:26 PM
A strikeout.

Ok, thanks.

Reds Fanatic
09-06-2006, 04:26 PM
Fly out to left on the first pitch.
Actually for Hatteberg he is one player that it is rare he swings at the first pitch.

NJReds
09-06-2006, 04:27 PM
What he's needed for a couple years now is for someone to sit him down and tell him to stop listening to anyone but himself and stop taking cues from culture changes as evidence that he somehow needs to change to follow along. He needs to be pushed to do nothing other than what he already knows how to do.

You may have a point. That's what the Yankees did with O'Neill and it worked out pretty well.

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:27 PM
any team that PH's Juan Castro with the game on the line deserves to lose.


Totally agree. Especially with expanded rosters.

Heath
09-06-2006, 04:27 PM
The board complains when "potential" is traded for pitching (WMP)

The board complains when "potential" is traded for relief pitching (Kearns/Lopez) because the offense will suffer.

Now, the board is predicting a Dunn deal in the off-season.

Huh? What kind of medications are getting mixed in here?

guttle11
09-06-2006, 04:27 PM
I would say hitter, but then he is a better hitter than anyone not named Pujols.


Right, so let's not compare them. Howard's a step (or two) above Dunn.

Adam Dunn should be compared to Jim Thome.

Falls City Beer
09-06-2006, 04:28 PM
I'm talking about management culture, not fan base. Dunn's an impressionable guy. Always has been. Wants to do well. Wants to fit in. Does dumb things because of it.

What he's needed for a couple years now is for someone to sit him down and tell him to stop listening to anyone but himself and stop taking cues from culture changes as evidence that he somehow needs to change to follow along. He needs to be pushed to do nothing other than what he already knows how to do.

Get him on a team that'll push that way, and you've got a legend.

It's my take too. When you're Elvis no one should ask you to be Frank Sinatra.

You just end up with Cousin Oliver from the Brady Bunch.

registerthis
09-06-2006, 04:28 PM
and yet has almost as many Ks. Which kinda leads me to beleive that there is something there that makes the difference, and it must be something other than strikeouts.

Yep, he's also a far better overall hitter than Dunn. Gets on base more frequently, gets more hits, hits for more power...simply an overall better offensive player. Which is why I don't think Howard should be compared to Dunn in any category. For this season, they aren't comparable.

oneupper
09-06-2006, 04:28 PM
Actually for Hatteberg he is one player that it is rare he swings at the first pitch.

Probably good that he did, don't think Stanton was expecting it. Just didn't get enough of it.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:28 PM
any team that PH's Juan Castro with the game on the line deserves to lose.He is a scrappy vet ... and Jerry's heart told him to do to it.

Where's the love, man?

westofyou
09-06-2006, 04:28 PM
He is played every day and the Reds coaching staff and management have given media answers for his strikeouts, but its clear they consider his production and overall approach acceptable. I don't think a trade is going to come because he drives observers like fans and the media nutty with the inconsistency. I think he is understood fine by those making decisions. That doesn't mean they might not jump on a trade offer if someone who really, really appreciates his offense comes along.

I agree, plus the Reds aren't going to all of the sudden become the 1959 White Sox, they value defense and not making outs and power, not everybody is Tony Gwynn and the belief that there is a Vlad Guerrreo out there that can slide into Dunns spot might blow up faster then you can say "Adrian Beltre"

BTW I like 3-2 losses way more then 8-5 losses... but that's just me I guess.

CTA513
09-06-2006, 04:29 PM
So these fans are going to boo him off the field when he gets a hit or is on base? Those are some pretty freaking stupid fans.

Yankee fans boo Alex Rodriguez for everything he does.

flyer85
09-06-2006, 04:30 PM
funny thing in the land of expanded rosters, the Reds did not have a single RH power bat on the bench.

NJReds
09-06-2006, 04:30 PM
The board complains when "potential" is traded for pitching (WMP)

The board complains when "potential" is traded for relief pitching (Kearns/Lopez) because the offense will suffer.

Now, the board is predicting a Dunn deal in the off-season.

Huh? What kind of medications are getting mixed in here?

Predicting is not the same as complaining.

Based on WK's short track record here, it seems logical that he'll shop Dunn, no?

Heath
09-06-2006, 04:30 PM
Yankee fans boo Alex Rodriguez for everything he does.

Errors and Strikeouts included.

A-Rod for Dunn?

:dunno:

REDREAD
09-06-2006, 04:30 PM
It's my take too. When you're Elvis no one should ask you to be Frank Sinatra.

You just end up with Cousin Oliver from the Brady Bunch.

That's my take too. Let's play to Dunn's strengths. Park him in the #2 slot. Give him protection in the lineup so he's less likely to be pitched around.

Let him rack up an enormous OBP with power and score 120 runs/season.

Don't put him in the cleanup slot (or worse, the #5 hole).