Off season moves

[fewfirstchoice]

We as a fan base want the Reds to have play off teams every year.We also would like to be the GM so we could make moves of our own from time to time.So with this in mind I would like to ask you all what do you think cincy needs to do this off season to improve the Reds.I know what I would like for WK to do but I would like to get all your guys info on how to improve this club.
Just to start us off I will tell you the moves I would make if I were the GM,I know they may not be what some want or like but I believe they would help the club.
First I would move Jr. to a corner spot,and either give Freel CF or sign or trade for a CF.IF we could get Tori Hunter or Vernon WElls I say get them and plug them in CF but thats about all I would put infront of Freel,maybe Pierre but Im not sold on him myself.
Second I would trade Dunn for a starting pitcher,maybe to the white sox for one of there 3 or 4 good pitchers.I know most dont want to trade Dunn and in a perfect world I wouldnt either but its not perfect.We could trade Dunn and have a out field of JR.,Freel,and hopefully one of the new guys I mentioned above,thats would be a great defensive out field to throw in GABP or 82 games.
Third the Reds need a middle infielder in the worst way.Im not sure who is on the market but maybe we could trade for a good offensive middle infielder.Maybe the Young guy in Texas.GIve them DIno,almedo,and some one else for him.If not him someone please.
FOurth we need a closer,maybe Gagne if the Dodgers dont pickup his option,or even Woods.They both would be stretchs but if heathly would be a major up grade.
Now lets look at our line up if these things happen the way I would like for them to.
1.Young SS
2.HUnter or Wells maybe Freel CF
3.E.E.3B
4.Jr. or Wells LF
5.HAtteberg 1B
6.Freel RF
7.Ross C
8.Phillips 2B
NOw if we trade Dun we get a good pitcher in return maybe Garland or Buerle who knows but a good one.
Rotation
1.NEw guy
2.Harang
3.Arroyo
4.Loshe
5.Milton not a bad rotation?
Bullpen would be solid with Bray and Cormier as Leftys then Coffey,Magic man, and a couple new faces there as wel counting a closer.
Now that looks like a good team to me.A lineup with power,speed,batting avg. and the ability to have decent averages and on base percents.I know we lose probably 15 to 20 homers a year by tradeing Dunn and bringing in some lesser power hitters,but in the long run it will mean more runs with more singles and doubles on the board when they count.Remember all my moves are with players Im just throwing in there meaning we need a player similar to them not having to be them,just someone that plays the game like the players I mentioned.
So theres my Gm moves tear them apart and tell me what you would do if you were the GM,remember this is a message board so dont be shy thanks.

[BoilerBC11]

We'd have to give up the farm to get Wells and Young. I dont think any dramatic moves need to be made. I like a team lineup of:

Freel- CF
Phillips-SS
EE- 3B
Dunn-LF
Griffey-RF
Hatte-1B/Trade hatte at break, call up Votto
Ross- C
B. Harris- 2B

Thats a pretty potent linup. The reason I wouldnt go too far messin wit the line up is because of studs like Votto, Bruce, and Stubbs that are all makin their rounds in the minors. All of the players at their positions are gettin older, and could be easily moved when their time comes.

As far as pitching, strangly enough I think were solid with our starters: I see the opening day rotation as:

Harang
Arroyo
Lohse
Milton
Claussen

I then send claussen to the bullpen as soon as Homer's dominatin AAA.

Then as far as the bullpen goes, they prolly need some work. I'd look to pick up a closer in the offseason and go with a bullpen of:

Bray
Cormier
Majic
Coffey
New Closer(dangle Dino)

Thats a solid team that will make the playoffs next year, and keep the fans happy until 2010 when we make a run for the WS with guys like Bruce, EE, Dunn, Phillips, Votto, Harang, Homer, Cuerto, Wood, Bray all leadin' the way.

[fewfirstchoice]

You make good points BC11 but I just think that the kids like Bruce,Stubbs,Votto,Cuerto,and Wood are just a little to far away to help the big club.Votto is at least 2 years away,Stubbs and Bruce probably 3 years,so i say we can make a couple moves and not threaten any of our young guys.And your lineup is basically what it is this year just minus Aurilla and add Harris,so that doesnt look to potent to me.
And yes it would take some talent for a Young or Wells deal to happen but we could get around that.We could sign T.HUnter for probably around 11 to 13 mil. a year for 3 years.When hes out of his prime and his deal is up its time for Bruce and Stubbs to be a major leaguer.A a Youngdeal ould get it done I would think without giving up any major cogs in the wheel.Maybe some young talent but that would be it with a MLB ready SS like Almedo.
I just dont think the same lineup next year as this year will make the Reds a post season team.The Reds need to add at least one bat to the lineup in the worst way and probably 2 to be a contender.
AS for the closer I agree dangle Dino or a young playerto get a proven closer.

[Patrick Bateman]

I disagree with your proposed value of Michael Young. He is one of the top SS in the game. It will take top prospects to get him (and maybe a guy like Phillips included).

A guy like Olmedo wont get it done. He looks like a light hitting utility man at this point. Guys like him are not difficult to come by.

I don't think a trade for a guy like Young is in the Reds' best interests right now. The Reds are likely at least another year from being serious contenders for the play-offs/world series, so trading what little young talent we have, for a lower budget team would likely make us better now, but cripple us in the future.

I'm also not ahuge fan of Hunter. He's got great defense, but his hitting is highly overrated. He's not a bad target, but not at 11-13M IMO. We'll need every bit of offense if Dunn is dealt (and if he is it needs to be for a legitamite #1-2 starter, not Jon Garland).

[Will M]

Starters:
C Ross
1B Hatteberg/Aurillia ( with Aurillia spot starting at 2B/SS/3b )
2B Freel
SS Phillips
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn
* CF Tori Hunter
RF Griffey

Bench:
C Valentine
* IF Craig Counsell
Utility OF ( ? Denorfia )
Utility IF ( ? Olmedo )
Veteran pinch hitter

Counsell can play 2B, SS or 3B. Has speed & is a good defender.
Freel can play some in the OF when Counsell plays 2B.
You can rotate 9 guys amongst 7 spots.

Assuming we don't trade any players I think adding a bat that can hit in the center of the lineup ( Hunter ) who can also play defense is essential.
I don't see that happening at 2B so going after Hunter seems like a good idea.

The pitching is the problem. We have a #1.5/2 ( Harang ) , a #3 ( Arroyo ) , a bunch of 4th/5th starters & a bunch of middle relievers.
We sorely need an ace & a closer but trying to get them on the free agent market is going to cost $$$$.
Also there are injury questions re EZ, Claussen & Majik.

SP Harang
SP Arroyo
SP Milton
SP Lohse ? ( depending on how he pitches his last 5 starts )
SP EZ ? , Bailey ??, Clausen ???

RP Bray
RP Majik
RP Coffey
RP Cormier ?
RP Belisle
Closer ???

- Will

p.s. LaRue: pray he has a good spring and trade him in spring training

[ChatterRed]

Get rid of Dunn. He ain't worth it.

[Highlifeman21]

Move number 1.

Get rid of Jason LaRue.

That is all, please resume your regularly scheduled posting.

[mth123]

Starters:
C Ross
1B Hatteberg/Aurillia ( with Aurillia spot starting at 2B/SS/3b )
2B Freel
SS Phillips
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn
* CF Tori Hunter
RF Griffey

Bench:
C Valentine
* IF Craig Counsell
Utility OF ( ? Denorfia )
Utility IF ( ? Olmedo )
Veteran pinch hitter

Counsell can play 2B, SS or 3B. Has speed & is a good defender.
Freel can play some in the OF when Counsell plays 2B.
You can rotate 9 guys amongst 7 spots.

Assuming we don't trade any players I think adding a bat that can hit in the center of the lineup ( Hunter ) who can also play defense is essential.
I don't see that happening at 2B so going after Hunter seems like a good idea.

The pitching is the problem. We have a #1.5/2 ( Harang ) , a #3 ( Arroyo ) , a bunch of 4th/5th starters & a bunch of middle relievers.
We sorely need an ace & a closer but trying to get them on the free agent market is going to cost $$$$.
Also there are injury questions re EZ, Claussen & Majik.

SP Harang
SP Arroyo
SP Milton
SP Lohse ? ( depending on how he pitches his last 5 starts )
SP EZ ? , Bailey ??, Clausen ???

RP Bray
RP Majik
RP Coffey
RP Cormier ?
RP Belisle
Closer ???

- Will

p.s. LaRue: pray he has a good spring and trade him in spring training

I've been thinking along the same lines as this. Don't know if that is good or bad from your perspective.

[UC_Ken]

I think Milton becomes tradable this offseason with only having one year left on his deal. And while I like the effort he's given us in the second half he belongs in San Diego, LA, Washington, or some other pitcher's paradise. Our rotation should be

Harang
Arroyo
Lohse
Bailey
FA addition

As for the lineup I agree with moving Griffey to a corner OF spot and getting a Gold Glove CF. I would also like to get another dangerous bat in the lineup. If not an OF then a good hitting middle infielder to play whatever position BP doesn't play.

[Will M]

1. UC ken said: " I think Milton becomes tradable this offseason with only having one year left on his deal. And while I like the effort he's given us in the second half he belongs in San Diego, LA, Washington, or some other pitcher's paradise. "

- I agree. I think Milton could become tradable. He is an OK pitcher & would be MUCH better in a big park.

Tom Browning & Sid Fernandez were solid pitchers in their day but I suspect they would be getting killed in 2006 with all the batter friendly parks.
A flyball pitcher doesn't belong in GABP.

2. I think Krivsky may have to get creative this offseason. This is kind of scary considering his most creative trade in 2006 blew up.

3. The Reds need a bat in the middle of the lineup ( CF , 2B or SS ) , an ace & a closer if they really have a shot at a world series. Getting all 3 in one offseason may be asking too much

- Will

[mth123]

1. UC ken said: " I think Milton becomes tradable this offseason with only having one year left on his deal. And while I like the effort he's given us in the second half he belongs in San Diego, LA, Washington, or some other pitcher's paradise. "

- I agree. I think Milton could become tradable. He is an OK pitcher & would be MUCH better in a big park.

Tom Browning & Sid Fernandez were solid pitchers in their day but I suspect they would be getting killed in 2006 with all the batter friendly parks.
A flyball pitcher doesn't belong in GABP.

2. I think Krivsky may have to get creative this offseason. This is kind of scary considering his most creative trade in 2006 blew up.

3. The Reds need a bat in the middle of the lineup ( CF , 2B or SS ) , an ace & a closer if they really have a shot at a world series. Getting all 3 in one offseason may be asking too much

- Will
Agreed on all counts. But if you can't get anything for Milton keep him. He'll be even more attractive at the all star break. This year he would have been the best pitcher available not named Maddux.

[MartyFan]

What if we can get Junior to move to a corner OF spot...Keep Dunn in left (though he has got to improve) and then bring in someone like Eric Byrnes to play CF...not sure what Byrnes would fetch in FA market but is his defense an upgrade over Junior in CF and would Junior be enough of an upgrade in RF to help the new CF shade to LF to compensate for Dunn?

Wow...it's late.

[redsmetz]

Will M wrote:


I think Krivsky may have to get creative this offseason. This is kind of scary considering his most creative trade in 2006 blew up.

It's way too early to say the trade "blew up". One doesn't measure these things in a half season. If Bray and Majewski prove to be solid arms for us for several years, I'm not sure it will be deemed a failure. A trade like this can't be judge in the short term. Long term? We'll have to see.

[redsfan4445]

1) 1st thing I would do is make a change starting at manager..Narron has lost the fan base and for the FO to make a statement that the colapse will not be tolerated, is to bring in a manager that the fans would see the Reds are serious about wining.. A manager like Narron will not Win the world series..

I seee Bob eating his contratct and making a huge push to bring back Lou Pinella. Let him pick his own coaches (not like years past where the manager was hired expecing to keep coaches already in place)

2) sign either Hunter or Wells for CF and move JR to Left.

3) trade Dunn, LaRue, Hatteburg, Travis Wood, Deno, Belisle and Cueto....to Baltimore for Bedard and Tejada.

4) move Rich to 1st base.

5) Trade Milton (unless Baltimore will take him) and half his salary, to Oakland, or LA, or Washington for a pitching prospect..or (washington :Rauch)

rotation

1) Harang,
2) Bedard,
3) Arroyo
4) Loysh
5) Bailey? or a free agent or who we can get for Milton

lineup

1) Freel RF
2) Hunter CF
3) Griffey LF
4) Tejada SS
5) Encarnacion 3B
6) Aurilia 1B (till Votto is ready)
7) Ross/Valentin C
8) Phillips 2B

bench:

Castro INF
Valentine C
LH pinch hitter
4th Outfileder
Hopper
Olmedo

I will write more later.. off to work :)

[mth123]

1) 1st thing I would do is make a change starting at manager..Narron has lost the fan base and for the FO to make a statement that the colapse will not be tolerated, is to bring in a manager that the fans would see the Reds are serious about wining.. A manager like Narron will not Win the world series..

I seee Bob eating his contratct and making a huge push to bring back Lou Pinella. Let him pick his own coaches (not like years past where the manager was hired expecing to keep coaches already in place)

2) sign either Hunter or Wells for CF and move JR to Left.

3) trade Dunn, LaRue, Hatteburg, Travis Wood, Deno, Belisle and Cueto....to Baltimore for Bedard and Tejada.

4) move Rich to 1st base.

5) Trade Milton (unless Baltimore will take him) and half his salary, to Oakland, or LA, or Washington for a pitching prospect..or (washington :Rauch)

rotation

1) Harang,
2) Bedard,
3) Arroyo
4) Loysh
5) Bailey? or a free agent or who we can get for Milton

lineup

1) Freel RF
2) Hunter CF
3) Griffey LF
4) Tejada SS
5) Encarnacion 3B
6) Aurilia 1B (till Votto is ready)
7) Ross/Valentin C
8) Phillips 2B

bench:

Castro INF
Valentine C
LH pinch hitter
4th Outfileder
Hopper
Olmedo

I will write more later.. off to work :)

This actually isn't bad for the players involved from a short term talent standpoint. I'm not into predicting trades as specifically as you do but trading Dunn, Cueto and Wood in the same deal is a little scary. Getting 3 impact guys back like Tejada, Bedard and Hunter (I know he is not in the deal) is intriguing. The downside is (# 4 is the killer though):

1. The team just became older w/o an offensive centerpiece for the long term and the minor leagues drops back down to barren once Votto, Bruce and Bailey are up.
2. Bedard in the rotation is intriguing but doubt we could really get him, even for the players mentioned.
3. I wouldn't think the reds would trade 7 for 2.
4. Probably have to pay big money to Tejada to get him to promise not to exercise his right to demand a trade after the first season.
5. As far as Milton goes, I know we all hate him here, but if your gonna pay half his salary why not keep him until the All Star Break for the #5 spot and trade him when teams are really looking and Bailey is ready? You still cut half his salary that way and probably get more back.

I've seen worse ideas though. Many are my own.:)

[Always Red]

As far as Milton goes, I know we all hate him here, but if your gonna pay half his salary why not keep him until the All Star Break for the #5 spot and trade him when teams are really looking and Bailey is ready? You still cut half his salary that way and probably get more back.

I've seen worse ideas though. Many are my own.:)

Exactly right, IMO about Milty. If he continues to pitch as he has this year, he will become extremely valuable to someone by the All Star break next summer, and if we want to unload him, there should be a line at the door. That's the time to cash in, not to pay someone else now to take him off of our hands.

I like Milton; he seldom complains, seems to be a stand-up guy, and he has pitched decently this year. As it turns out, the times he has pitched poorly, he has been hurt. The only gripe I would have about him is that he has under-performed his contract. If he were making, say 2-3 million this year, we would all love him right now. It's not his fault that the Reds overpaid him.

Pitching is very expensive, we've all seen that. It will cost this team just as much to replace Milton's production, such as it is, as they are paying Uncle Milty right now. Unless they get lucky with a rookie or someone they find while dumpster-diving other teams rejects.

[redsmetz]

Always Red wrote:


I like Milton; he seldom complains, seems to be a stand-up guy, and he has pitched decently this year. As it turns out, the times he has pitched poorly, he has been hurt. The only gripe I would have about him is that he has under-performed his contract. If he were making, say 2-3 million this year, we would all love him right now. It's not his fault that the Reds overpaid him.

I've found this a very admirable trait of Miltons. I noted that this morning, too, in in reading Kim's comments about his efforts yesterday. He didn't rest on pitching "good enough", he was disappointed that he had let the team down and given up the two runs early and easy (I think he said). I want that sort of standup guy pitching for. Of course, I'd like them not to be letting up runs early and easy (or often!).

[Ltlabner]

I've found this a very admirable trait of Miltons. I noted that this morning, too, in in reading Kim's comments about his efforts yesterday. He didn't rest on pitching "good enough", he was disappointed that he had let the team down and given up the two runs early and easy (I think he said). I want that sort of standup guy pitching for. Of course, I'd like them not to be letting up runs early and easy (or often!).

Unless we pick up a FA or make a trade for a replacement pitcher I think it makes zero sense to DFA Milton and pay him to pitch for another team. While he certinally isn't Cy Young he's put up some decent numbers and with the exception of last year has had medicore numbers over his carear. Someone will no doubt list off his carear numbers and say, "he's crap". But that overlooks the big sticking point if you simply dump him (besides paying him to pitch on another team): you still need an arm to pitch in his spot. Who becomes your #3 guy in the rotation? Loshe? Woo? EZ? And then who replaces that guy?

If we could trade him for some real prospects I'd be open to it, but (1) I doubt another team will pick up his contract and (B) then who is our #3 starter? Loshe? Woo ? Again, if we bring in some other arms (and another team is willing to pick up his contract) then, by all means, bring the prospects to town.

The more likely scenario, however, is that he's here at least through the ASB in 2007.

[Kc61]

A couple of points:

1. Love the idea of a deal for Tejada. I thought of Bedard too, although hard to see the O's trading him. But a trade of Dunn that gets Tejada to the Reds, if it can work financially, might be the restructuring this team needs. (Don't see it happening if Dunn isn't in deal.)

2. Eric Milton. Agree he is a stand up guy. But his home record this year is 3 wins, 6 losses, 5.60 ERA, 15 homers in 80 innings. (He is much better on the road.) Unfortunately, it is very hard to be good with a highly paid starting pitcher with those home numbers.

Reds need starting pitchers better suited to GABP.

[jamess697]

Here is my lineup for next season

2B Ryan Freel
1B Scott Hatteberg
RF Vernon Wells
CF Ken Griffey Jr.
3B Edwin Encarnacion
LF Adam Dunn
C David Ross
SS Brandon Phillips
P Aaron Harang

Bench
Rich Aurilla
Chris Denorfia
Norris Hopper
Ray Olmedo


Rotation
RHP Aaron Harang
LHP Mark Buerlhe
RHP Bronson Arroyo
LHP Eric Milton
RHP Kyle Lohse

[Z-Fly]

It seems some how in the offseason we will have the Yanks payroll

[fewfirstchoice]

Payroll wont equal to the Yanks,but I can see Bob raising it to around 70-80 million for next season?If this happens the Reds can make some good FA signings and decent trades.

[Will M]

may not be free agents. I believe that they all have club options. Wells & Buerhle's are likely to be picked up.

Trading for Tejada seems nice BUT he has a $15,000,000 price tag and we would have to give up a lot to get him.

Unfortunately we owe Milton for 2007, LaRue for 2007 & Griffey for 2007/2008. We will not be having a $100,000,000 payroll so bidding for the all star type free agents probably won't be feasable. So I don't expect more than one big offseason splash ( but I really hope for at least one ).

One thing I LOVE is that Krivsky hasn't signed anyone to bad long term deals. In the past it seemed as soon as we got rid of a bad contract we immediately signed someone else to a bad contract. Small market teams tend to overvalue their players.
Look at the Pirates & Jack Wilson.

Looking at small/mid market teams recently I have a concept.
To win you need 3 stud players, a #1 and #2 starter , and a closer. That is 6 big contracts. You fill in the rest with youngsters ( who are cheap ), cheap free agents & solid but cheap vets. The Cards in their recent heydays have had Pujols/Rolen/Edmonds/Carpenter/Morris/Izzy and have filled out the rest of the roster with non all stars.
Houston has been similar.

- Will

[fewfirstchoice]

I understand what your talking about in not having a 100 million dolla payroll but if the Reds bump it up to at least 70 mil. they will have around 25-30 mil to spend this off season.Our salary commitments only total 41 mil for 07 so they do have some to work with.With that money they should at least be able to get 2 solid MLB players to come on board.A pitcher and a CF hopefully.And then add a couple of lower names to fill out the rest of the lineup.

[ChatterRed]

I think Rich Aurillia needs to be an everyday player. EE and Richie have been our most consistent hitters all season.

I am not an Adam Dunn fan. If we can package him in a deal to get Tejeda.........I think it would be good. Leave Phillips at 2B, play Tejeda at SS, EE at 3B, and Aurillia at 1B. Substitute Aurillia at the other 3 positions occasionally and play Hatteberg. Plus, there are always injuries.

Pursue a quality CF'er, move Junior to left and Freel to RF. If you can't find a CF'er..........sign a quality OF'er and move Freel to CF.

Sign a FA closer.
Sign a quality FA starter.

C Ross
1B Aurillia
2B Phillips
SS Tejada
3B EE
LF Griffey
CF *FA signing or Freel
RF Freel or *FA signing

SP Harang
SP Arroyo
SP Milton
SP Lohse
SP *FA signing

RP Magic
RP Bray
RP Coffey
RP Schoenweis (spelling)
RP *FA signing

If you can make a reasonable trade with Milton.......you'd be doing him a favor if you can get him into a deep ballpark since he is a flyball pitcher.

[Will M]

Aurillia's #s are MUCH better vs LHP than vs RHP. Also he is 35 years old.
I can't seem him playing 162 games.
I am happy with Rich at 1B vs LHP and filling in at other positions ( starting say 100-120 games a year )

I am not against trading Dunn and moving Jr to left IF we get a #2 starter for Dunn AND replace Dunn's bat ( ie via free agency )

There are no free agent closers this year.

- Will

P.S. I read an article talking about how the Blue Jays want to spend $40,000,000/year more in order to keep up with the Yanks/Red Sox.
Getting into a bidding war for the 'mercenary' type free agents who just want the biggest contract doesn't seem to be the way for the Reds to go.