Game Thread - 09/13/2006 - Reds vs. Padres

[WVRedsFan]

Phillips 2B

Hatteberg 1B

Aurilia SS

Dunn LF

Encarnacion 3B

Valentin C

Hollandsworth RF

Wise CF

Lohse P

In the words of my collegue, "What the heck is that?"

Per Marc's blog.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Where is Freel and why Wise? Unless he is hurt, this is not the time for rest.

[TheBigLebowski]

Narronesque.

[vaticanplum]

Remember when we had a more-or-less set lineup for five minutes? Oh well.

Gooooo Loooooohse!

[reds44]

What?

This is the most important series of the year and you run that out there?

[Red Leader]

*shakes head*

Jerry, Jerry, Jerry....

:nono:

Against Jake Peavy no less...

[Heath]

Worse yet, I'm driving down from an hour away to see that line-up. Thankfully I'm spending the $5 for the Kitty Duran seats. Hot Dogs are a $1 too.

Maybe I'll look so sad that someone would by me a beer. I'll be the one in the Reds shirt & Black Reds if you see me :D

[membengal]

Wow. That's an, um, "interesting" approach to dealing with Peavy. Who knows? Maybe we will discover that Wise is Peavy's kryptonite. We're through the looking glass with this team and the 2006 weird NL season anyway...

[GridironGrace]

yea this is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY..................STUPID!!!

You do NOT sit your leadoff hitter in this important of a game..ESPECIALLY with thier best pitcher on the mound.

I hope for Narron's sake this works out..........man... no freel.. no jr no ross

[VR]

Where is Freel and why Wise? Unless he is hurt, this is not the time for rest.


Freel 2-13 against Peavy with 7 k's and 0 walks. Good time to get a bit of rest on those legs.

If you want to be depressed...open this link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/bvsp?pitchTeam=25&teamId=17

[BCubb2003]

Well, the lineups we like seem to get shut down.

[Cyclone792]

Narron better know something that we don't know regarding Peavy, Freel, Wise and individual matchups, and Narron "going with his heart" doesn't constitute knowing something. There better be some data, scouting, or something that the Reds have picked up that suggests these are the best eight to send out there against Peavy.

FWIW, Ryan Freel shouldn't be sitting strictly for rest during this series; in fact, none of our regulars should sit strictly for rest during this series since Monday was an off day.

[Red Leader]

Freel 2-13 against Peavy with 7 k's and 0 walks. Good time to get a bit of rest on those legs.

If you want to be depressed...open this link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/bvsp?pitchTeam=25&teamId=17


Wow. Aurilia, Jr. and Valentin the only three players on the Reds that are hitting over .200 vs Peavy.

So, what you're saying is: This whole team is DUE for a big game vs Peavy?

[membengal]

Baseball's weird, you would have made a lot of money off of me in March by betting that:

1. The Reds would still be in a meaningful game on September 13; and

2. That Dwayne Wise and Todd Hollandsworth would be 2/3 of the outfield in that very important game...

[BCubb2003]

FWIW, Ryan Freel shouldn't be sitting strictly for rest during this series; in fact, none of our regulars should sit strictly for rest during this series since Monday was an off day.

We have regulars?

[BoydsOfSummer]

Freel 2-13 against Peavy with 7 k's and 0 walks. Good time to get a bit of rest on those legs.

If you want to be depressed...open this link.

Acollective .415 OPS against Peavy? Great googly-moogly...

[oneupper]

IIRC, Freel was AWFUL against Peavy last time up.

This might not work, but I'll give Narron some credit for mixing it up. The regulars weren't hitting much and LH hit Peavy a bit better.

Heck, if it were me, I might have had Wise leading off or something.

[traderumor]

The bellyaching about the lineup should guarantee a good offensive night.

[VR]

So, what you're saying is: This whole team is DUE for a big game vs Peavy?

that's what my heart is telling me :KoolAid:

[membengal]

To be clear, I am not criticizing it, since we are into the ether with this team in a strange season, it might just work. Whatever they did last time against Peavy sure didn't.

[westofyou]

Ride your horses too hard and sometimes you die, ask Gene Mauch and Leo Durocher about that.

[TheBigLebowski]

Is first pitch at 7:05?

[NDRed]

yeah 7:10

[edabbs44]

Wow. Aurilia, Jr. and Valentin the only three players on the Reds that are hitting over .200 vs Peavy.

So, what you're saying is: This whole team is DUE for a big game vs Peavy?

No, what he is saying is all you need is a stat sheet to do the same job as Narron. A stat sheet and an undying love for Ryan Franklin.

[WVRedsFan]

Freel is slumping right now. In the month of September - 10 games - his numbers read:

AB R h D T hr bi bb k sb cs obp ops ba
30 5 7 0 0 1 1 4 8 4 0 .324 .333 .657 .233

Time for a rest. He's far from a great leadoff hitter right now.

And as for a toe keeping him out of a game...if you've ever dislocated a toe, it's not anything an outfielder can play with. Oh, that was last night's game thread. :evil:

[M2]

I do not like Hattberg in the #2 slot. It's all wrong for him. Hatteberg's not so secret weakness (it's right there in "Moneyball" for anyone to read) is that there's a lot of pitches and areas in the strikezone he can't handle. I don't know if pitchers perhaps let up a bit when he's lower in the lineup and the guy on deck isn't so scary or if they try to get him to chase more junk (which is like manna from Heaven for Hatteberg because it means he can work his way into a hitter's count) or if they just go after #2 hitters more directly. It's probably a combination of all that plus some other stuff and the result is he's far less effective at #2.

[Always Red]

Wow. Aurilia, Jr. and Valentin the only three players on the Reds that are hitting over .200 vs Peavy.

So, what you're saying is: This whole team is DUE for a big game vs Peavy?

And yet the rest of the league has smacked it around relatively well on Jake this year. Sounds like the Reds are OVERDUE!

[OnBaseMachine]

Freddy Garcia just had his no-hitter broken up with two outs in the 8th inning by Adam freakin' Kennedy.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Sure would be nice to see Jr. playing in a meaningful game. Any word on his boo-boo?

[westofyou]

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/


In other news, Griffey took batting practice for the first time since the injury, but he is still not 100 percent. Running remains the problem for him. He is available to pinch-hit, though, and was last night. If Schoeneweis' spot had come up, Junior probably would have hit for him.

[flyer85]

I think the simple answer is you want as many LH hitters as possible against Peavy.

Let's hope it works.

[cumberlandreds]

Just my opinion but you don't sit your best players in a crucial game. I don't care what Freel or Ross are hitting against Peavy. They are the best the Reds have at their respective positions. It seems like Narron is doing his best not to give the Reds their best chance of winning. I hope it works out but I think we are looking at getting shut out tonight.

[cumberlandreds]

Sure would be nice to see Jr. playing in a meaningful game. Any word on his boo-boo?


I think Junior's done for this season. I said it when he limped off the field after hurting his toe.

[NDRed]

5-1 houston over St.Louis
5-3 braves over philles
7:05 florida and 10:30 San Francisco

[Wheelhouse]

Hey at this point with Narron, I'm happy with any lineup that does not have Royce Clayton in it---we can't ask for too much...

[NDRed]

twins only 2 games back of detroit

[NDRed]

St.Louis lost

[NDRed]

loshe has won his last two home starts

[TheBigLebowski]

I like banana custard

[Matt700wlw]

twins only 2 games back of detroit

Unfortunately Loriano left the game with elbow issues again.

They need guys to continue to step up.

[RedLegSuperStar]

Hopefully Lohse has been working on his hitting.. cause we're going to need it tonight!

[Falls City Beer]

Ride your horses too hard and sometimes you die, ask Gene Mauch and Leo Durocher about that.

Ask Narron, if you want to ask one of the living.

[westofyou]

Ask Narron, if you want to ask one of the living.Whip that horse into a frenzy

[Kc61]

Just my opinion but you don't sit your best players in a crucial game. I don't care what Freel or Ross are hitting against Peavy. They are the best the Reds have at their respective positions. It seems like Narron is doing his best not to give the Reds their best chance of winning. I hope it works out but I think we are looking at getting shut out tonight.

Wouldn't sit Dunn, Aurilia, or EE regardless of pitcher. But Freel and Ross haven't hit so well lately that they must play every game.

Peavy's ERA against lefties is 4.64; he is more effective (4.01) against righties. He has given up twice as many homers to lefty hitters than to righties (14 v. 7).

I think Jerry is doing the correct thing here.

[Falls City Beer]

Whip that horse into a frenzy

Exactly. I'd love to read your defense of Narron's prowess. That should be a hoot.

[westofyou]

Exactly. I'd love to read your defense of Narron's prowess. That should be a hoot.
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/misc/tree_care/woodsy.gif

[NDRed]

ground out

[Matt700wlw]

Well...you don't want to give them too much with Peavy going

[Falls City Beer]

Why people don't expect Lohse's career to come back and kick the crap out of him at some point, I don't get....

[George Foster]

Why people don't expect Lohse's career to come back and kick the crap out of him at some point, I don't get....

That was a pitchers pitch. Low and outside. He just went down and hit it.

[PuffyPig]

Why people don't expect Lohse's career to come back and kick the crap out of him at some point, I don't get....


I don't think it's so much that people don't expect it to happen, it's just that they hope it's not so soon.

[Wheelhouse]

Why people don't expect Lohse's career to come back and kick the crap out of him at some point, I don't get....

Ugh. He's only 27. He's competing well in a pennant race. He's a good pitcher. Gotta go easy on the "career norm" stuff with younger players.

[dsmith421]

He's a good pitcher.

"Good" must be the new "average," because Lohse has been pretty much stone-cold, down-the-line average his entire career (with the exception of this year, when he's stunk).

[Matt700wlw]

1 pitch...1 out.

[Falls City Beer]

Ugh. He's only 27. He's competing well in a pennant race. He's a good pitcher. Gotta go easy on the "career norm" stuff with younger players.

Twenty-seven's not young. Would you have said the same thing about Brett Tomko at that age?

[Falls City Beer]

"Good" must be the new "average," because Lohse has been pretty much stone-cold, down-the-line average his entire career (with the exception of this year, when he's stunk).

For his career he's actually been below average.

[George Foster]

that's how to get that pitch count up boys...2 pitches...2 outs

[Matt700wlw]

Why people don't expect Lohse's career to come back and kick the crap out of him at some point, I don't get....


For his career he's actually been below average.

So which is it?

[Wheelhouse]

"Good" must be the new "average," because Lohse has been pretty much stone-cold, down-the-line average his entire career (with the exception of this year, when he's stunk).

What are we talking? A 4-year ML "career"? There were a good number of competitors for Lohse's services when the Reds got him. He is highly thought of among scouts and his talent is coming into its own now. Just look at him on the mound--he has good command and is a pitcher not a throw. Rare and valuable.

[KoryMac5]

Twenty-seven's not young. Would you have said the same thing about Brett Tomko at that age?

Rogers, Moyer, and to some extent Schilling were late bloomers it does happen from time to time.

[Falls City Beer]

So which is it?

Uh, I see no contradiction.

[dsmith421]

For his career he's actually been below average.

Career ERA+ of 96, which is below average, but only slightly. In his four full major league seasons he's posted ERA+s of 104, 100, 89, and 105, which is about as close to dead on league-average as you can get. His 1.4 WHIP is not real good, though.

[Wheelhouse]

Phillies just won after the Braves left fielder dropped a fly.

[Matt700wlw]

Uh, I see no contradiction.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong...


Oops...I did. Sorry :)

[Falls City Beer]

Rogers, Moyer, and to some extent Schilling were late bloomers it does happen from time to time.

Lefties often bloom late, and Schilling's stuff was and is a thousand times better than Lohse's.

[dsmith421]

Interestingly, Lohse's #1 comparison through last year was Chris Carpenter. #2? Jeff Weaver. So I'd say his career path is unpredictable.

[Falls City Beer]

Career ERA+ of 96, which is below average, but only slightly. In his four full major league seasons he's posted ERA+s of 104, 100, 89, and 105, which is about as close to dead on league-average as you can get. His 1.4 WHIP is not real good, though.

Add the metrics up in a ledger and you get a somewhat below-average pitcher with a decent fastball who yet has no idea how to K people. Bad, bad, bad.

[George Foster]

So which is it?

Lohse is all we got right now. Complaining about Lohse is like complaining about eating Tuna Fish when that's all you got in the fridge. It is what it is.

[Matt700wlw]

Lohse is all we got right now. Complaining about Lohse is like complaining about eating Tuna Fish when that's all you got in the fridge. It is what it is.

Short term has been very good....long term we don't know.

Right now, in September, during a postseason race, short term is all that matters

[Wheelhouse]

Add the metrics up in a ledger and you get a somewhat below-average pitcher with a decent fastball who yet has no idea how to K people. Bad, bad, bad.

Well that sounds like a nice project for you...

[vaticanplum]

Lohse is all we got right now. Complaining about Lohse is like complaining about eating Tuna Fish when that's all you got in the fridge. It is what it is.

Speaking of which, do I make pasta or rice for dinner? Discuss.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice catch!

[Matt700wlw]

Speaking of which, do I make pasta or rice for dinner? Discuss.

Tuna Helper :D

[George Foster]

gosh not very good camera work tonight...who is in the truck?

[Falls City Beer]

Well that sounds like a nice project for you...

....he says after Lohse surrenders his second double of the night.

[GridironGrace]

well crap.... Phils came back to beat the Braves

and Reds trailing early :(

[Reds Fanatic]

2-0 Padres as Peavy doubles in a run.

[Chip R]

Ugh.

[George Foster]

Freel not playing just cost us a run...thanks Jerry.

[redsfan30]

gosh not very good camera work tonight...who is in the truck?

Not good at all.

[NDRed]

peavy could beat us alone

[vaticanplum]

Tuna Helper :D

Fine suggestion too late. I lost my appetite.

[Reds Fanatic]

Roberts reaches on an infield single. 1st and 3rd.

[GridironGrace]

well here's trouble.......... Peavy 2B's in a run :(

WE GOTTA HIT Peavy 2nite

[Falls City Beer]

Freel not playing just cost us a run...thanks Jerry.

The problem is meatballs down the middle to the opposing pitcher, not the defense so much.

As the great Jim Edmonds says, "You can't defend a meatball in the middle of the plate."

[flyer85]

no Freel hurt on that one

[George Foster]

The problem is meatballs down the middle to the opposing pitcher, not the defense so much.

As the great Jim Edmonds says, "You can't defend a meatball in the middle of the plate."

That ball was very catchable...he overran it.

[Wheelhouse]

....he says after Lohse surrenders his second double of the night.

Hmmmm you seem to toggle between "career" and one inning timeframes as you see fit--and ignore the series of 7 good starts Lohse has had for the Reds.

[Matt700wlw]

Milton update:

No significance damage to the ligament, had a cortizone shot, and should be available Sunday.


Thanks, Piecoro!

[Wheelhouse]

Freel would have had it...thanks Jerry.

[GridironGrace]

"Milton should be able to pitch Sunday"

No ligament damage... got a cortozone shot and should be ready to roll on Sunday

[Reds Fanatic]

The Reds are in big trouble. Another double makes it 4-0.

[George Foster]

Well the line-up that keeps on giving.....

[GridironGrace]

well i know its very early in the game........however.. 4 runs is more than enough for Peavy :(

[VR]

Hmmmm you seem to toggle between "career" and one inning timeframes as you see fit--and ignore the series of 7 good starts Lohse has had for the Reds.


You're not saying 8 starts at a 2.96 ERA is acceptable, are you?

It's like being mad at Jason LaRue for hitting a game winning homer because he's unlikely to do it again for a long time.

[CTA513]

4 runs should be enough for Peavy.

[Matt700wlw]

It appears game 2 is slipping away...

Hopefully Peavy is "off"

[NDRed]

who warms up? belisle

[Falls City Beer]

Hmmmm you seem to toggle between "career" and one inning timeframes as you see fit--and ignore the series of 7 good starts Lohse has had for the Reds.

So now Lohse has had SEVEN good starts? Really? I count four. And three terrible ones.

[Reds Fanatic]

Another hit makes it 5-0.

[CTA513]

The Reds better pray for some rain so the game gets called.

[flyer85]

game over ... that was quick

[GridironGrace]

dang........we cant catch the cards if we cant win the days they lose

[vaticanplum]

Well, I think Lohse has been a genuine help for us, but he certainly is getting shelled tonight.

[/captain obvious]

[Matt700wlw]

And the fans want refunds on their dollar hotdogs as they begin coming back up...

[Reds Fanatic]

The Reds better pray for some rain so the game gets called.
Unfortunately the radar is clear. Rain won't save us tonight.

[Falls City Beer]

game over ... that was quick

Yep. That's Lohse's career in a nutshell.

[Reds Fanatic]

The nightmare inning is finally over.

[CTA513]

The Padres scored all 4 runs that inning with 2 outs.

[George Foster]

This inning is a PERFECT example of how a manager does have an influence on the outcome of a game. Freel would have cought the 2nd double for the
2nd out of the inning. We would have gotten out of the inning with only 1 run scored.

[GridironGrace]

WEll lets just kick back and hope for one of those Magical Comeback nights we've been able to put together on a few occasions this year

[GridironGrace]

This inning is a PERFECT example of how a manager does have an influence on the outcome of a game. Freel would have cought the 2nd double for the
2nd out of the inning. We would have gotten out of the inning with only 1 run scored.

After reading some stuff in the thread, and looking over some stats.. .im not to worried about the lineup we sent out 2nite... none of our batters have TOUCHED peavy all season so... Narron figured.. let the guys who have never faced him go out there and give it a shot... Rest a few guys see what happens.....

Atleast if we can find a way to get Peavy out of the game.. and get some sort of rally going .. i like our chances with Ross, Freel, Larue, all on the bench ready to bat

[pedro]

This inning is a PERFECT example of how a manager does have an influence on the outcome of a game. Freel would have cought the 2nd double for the
2nd out of the inning. We would have gotten out of the inning with only 1 run scored.

yeah let's blame that on Narron.

that ball was jacked. maybe freel would have caught it and maybe not but i can tell you who wouldn't have caught that ball and that's the reds regular CF.

[George Foster]

WEll lets just kick back and hope for one of those Magical Comeback nights we've been able to put together on a few occasions this year

I like the Everely Brothers too but "Dream" will all we will be doing tonight.

[NDRed]

lets rally

[Wheelhouse]

The Whiff Machine strikes again...

[Falls City Beer]

lets rally

Let's reach base, first. ;)

[NDRed]

we did reach first base now lets hit a home run lets hit 3

[Falls City Beer]

The Whiff Machine strikes again...

Nothin' like a little misplaced aggression to make the game thread unfold nicely.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin doubles to left. 2nd and 3rd with 1 out.

[GridironGrace]

Once again i sit here and watch Dunn Miss on pitches away in the zone.

I mean.......cmon....... ALL SEASON he's done it....... watches em, and cant touch a ball on the outter side of the plate...

Mark my Works: Right here.. i said it at 7:48 PM EST ON Wed. Sept 13th 2006, and im sure im not the first, nor the last to say it.

THE DAY, Adam Dunn can take a pitch the other way for a Base hit on a consistant basis.. will be the year he wins NL MVP and leads the Reds to an OUTSTANDING REG. Season Record.

Pitchers LIVE low and away on him and i mean LIVE THERE.... if they go anywhere else its because that night.. he was sitting away and did something with it.... he has to MAKE a pitcher come in his zone... poor dunner...

Great player.. love him.. and he helps us alot but he REALLY needs to work on going the other way

[Matt700wlw]

Let's reach base, first. ;)

Good start

[GridironGrace]

well lets see if the 789 can get us something here

[Matt700wlw]

Just to note, last night wasn't Mark Berry not sending EE on the could-have-been sac fly...

That was EE's decision.

[flyer85]

The Whiff Machine strikes again...Really, he cost the Reds the game.

[George Foster]

yeah let's blame that on Narron.

that ball was jacked. maybe freel would have caught it and maybe not but i can tell you who wouldn't have caught that ball and that's the reds regular CF.

True but Freel is the one who could of played tonight, and he would of cought that ball. The ball was overran. It almost hit Wise in the head.

[GridironGrace]

if u get to the Pitcher spot

I myself PH JR

[Reds Fanatic]

Hollandsworth walks. Bases loaded for Wise.

[Matt700wlw]

MUST capitalize on this...

[GridironGrace]

base's juiced fo wise :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Crap. Wise grounds into a 4-6-3 DP.

[Matt700wlw]

joy

[GridironGrace]

WTG WISE pftt

[Wheelhouse]

Classic.

[reds44]

Thatta boy Jerry.

[George Foster]

MUST capitalize on this...

same ole same ole......

[NDRed]

:thumbdown

[Matt700wlw]

same ole same ole......

Not that it's surprising or anything...

:reds:

[VR]

Nacho Libre now 6-9 in September. OPSing 2.100

[Falls City Beer]

It's unfathomable that Wayne can't see what a disaster he's made of this offense.

[GridironGrace]

bad part is had he not chased.. he was looking at a 2-0 pitch and coulda sat and been more Patiant.. once again a "BENCH" player swings himself out of a good oppurtunity :(

[flyer85]

Jerry certainly made a "Wise" decision

[redsfanmia]

It's unfathomable that Wayne can't see what a disaster he's made of this offense.

I hate to say it but I agree

[Wheelhouse]

It's unfathomable that Wayne can't see what a disaster he's made of this offense.

I couldn't agree more--his decision to not trade Dunn before the deadline has been lethal....

[Reds Fanatic]

It is also unfathomable that Wise is playing in a game this important.

[GridironGrace]

im so mad......we had to have SOMETHING out of that....... i hate the bottem of our lineup every night :(

what good are 1-5 hitters if ur 7/8 cant even put something in play.......other than a GIDP or a pop out

[Matt700wlw]

Mercker in the TV booth....has he been there all game?

[Matt700wlw]

It is also unfathomable that Wise is playing in a game this important.

"It's ok boys...get 'em tomorrow"

[George Foster]

It's unfathomable that Wayne can't see what a disaster he's made of this offense.

We are 4 games under .500 since the trade.

[Reds Fanatic]

Mercker in the TV booth....has he been there all game?I don't think so they said last night he was going to be with them for a few innings tonight.

[Reds Fanatic]

2 run homer makes it 7-0.

[Wheelhouse]

F.

[Matt700wlw]

It's over.

[reds44]

Why did he send Loshe back out there?


Jerry is batting 1000 tonight.

[George Foster]

"It's ok boys...get 'em tomorrow"

We are running out of tomorrows..... we have to win 12 out of 18 to get to 84 wins.

[mbgrayson]

Put a fork in Lohse, he's done!

[redsfanmia]

This is embarrassing

[alloverjr]

Whether Dunn's performing or not he shows me to be an extremely selfish player or one with an over-inflated ego. Certainly not one of my faves.

Oh, and go Kyle.

[flyer85]

Jerry is one dense guy

[Reds Fanatic]

Why did he send Loshe back out there?


Jerry is batting 1000 tonight.

It is unbelievable. Jerry keeps managing these games like it is April 13th instead of September 13th. Someone needs to tell him every night is do or die. There is no more letting pitchers pitch to eat up innings even on an off night. There is no more "Sunday Special" lineups.

[GridironGrace]

blah

when this season's over its all gonna be called "missed oppurtunities" We still have a chance to get in the Playoffs but its nights like this.. and run scoring oppurtunties for 2nights in a row that we cant capitalize on that makes you wonder just how slim that chance is getting.

A MUST win tomorrow night.

Now that ive said that LETS STINKING DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cmonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn its like all our players but a few are SCARED to step up and be something for the team

[redsfanmia]

I dont understand why Narron would pick today to run this line up out there. Why not just call in and forfeit the game?

[Matt700wlw]

Definitely picked the wrong night to have his worst start as a Red...in fact, no game in the next 3 weeks wouldn't have been a good one.

[Matt700wlw]

I don't see Belisle doing much...

[vaticanplum]

It's unfathomable that Wayne can't see what a disaster he's made of this offense.

I don't know that he doesn't see it.

I am definitely not as down on Krivsky as a lot of people here. I respect him a lot, I think he's done a decent job so far, and I am excited to see what he will do with a full offseason. I think his moves have ranged from brilliant to disastrous. But I don't think there's any way we can tell yet, from the length of time he's been here, whether or not he learns from his mistakes.

I do expect him to make some kind of big move in the offseason. I haven't the first clue what kind of move it will be. But it will be telling.

[GridironGrace]

Whether Dunn's performing or not he shows me to be an extremely selfish player or one with an over-inflated ego. Certainly not one of my faves.

Oh, and go Kyle.


yea had he just slapped for contact on one of the first 2 pitches.. he woulda scored last inning and that GIDP woulda scored another run we'd have 2 outs and a runner on 3B

instead he trys to pull it all no matter what.. and NOTHING

[CTA513]

I couldn't agree more--his decision to not trade Dunn before the deadline has been lethal....

I can just imagine an outfield of Freel, Wise, Hopper, Hollandsworth (and Griffey when hes not hurt).

[flyer85]

I couldn't agree more--his decision to not trade Dunn before the deadline has been lethal....we can only hope he is smart enough to release him at the end of the year.

[edabbs44]

Jerry is one dense guy

Jerry is dense, but Wayne hasn't provided him much to work with.

[37red]

Let all the subs play it out tonight, put Jerry in and let the regulars go home and kick back and watch a movie.

[George Foster]

I don't know that he doesn't see it.

I am definitely not as down on Krivsky as a lot of people here. I respect him a lot, I think he's done a decent job so far, and I am excited to see what he will do with a full offseason. I think his moves have ranged from brilliant to disastrous. But I don't think there's any way we can tell yet, from the length of time he's been here, whether or not he learns from his mistakes.

I do expect him to make some kind of big move in the offseason. I haven't the first clue what kind of move it will be. But it will be telling.

If Dunn continues to sleep walk through September it might just be him.

[edabbs44]

I don't know that he doesn't see it.

I am definitely not as down on Krivsky as a lot of people here. I respect him a lot, I think he's done a decent job so far, and I am excited to see what he will do with a full offseason. I think his moves have ranged from brilliant to disastrous. But I don't think there's any way we can tell yet, from the length of time he's been here, whether or not he learns from his mistakes.

I do expect him to make some kind of big move in the offseason. I haven't the first clue what kind of move it will be. But it will be telling.

No offense, but I am far from excited to see what he can do with a full offseason. I would use the word "frightened."

[NDRed]

another 6 batters till another out

[vaticanplum]

If Dunn continues to sleep walk through September it might just be him.

That would be stupid and shortsighted in my opinion. I mean, if September is the main reason.

[membengal]

So much for hoping the unconventional would be the way to go.

Ah well. Unfortunate. At least I can beat the wonderings about Homer for this weekend out of my head...

[alloverjr]

If Dunn continues to sleep walk through September it might just be him.


I think Wayne deals him as well.

Well, at least he caught that one (Wise).

[George Foster]

Wow Wise makes it interesting out there. He cought that one but he still overran it.

[OnBaseMachine]

Whether Dunn's performing or not he shows me to be an extremely selfish player or one with an over-inflated ego. Certainly not one of my faves.

Oh, and go Kyle.

:rolleyes:

Wow. That's all I can say about that.

[GridironGrace]

we gotta start chipping away at this 7 run lead... few here few there get back within distance to have a prayer

[Matt700wlw]

Hopper to PH for Belisle

[PuffyPig]

yea had he just slapped for contact on one of the first 2 pitches.. he woulda scored last inning and that GIDP woulda scored another run we'd have 2 outs and a runner on 3B

instead he trys to pull it all no matter what.. and NOTHING

You do realize that if Dunn had done something else the whole inning would have been different?

The next batter may have hit one into the dugout, killing Phillips fpr all we know.

[George Foster]

That would be stupid and shortsighted in my opinion. I mean, if September is the main reason.

September is when the cream rises....

[vaticanplum]

No offense, but I am far from excited to see what he can do with a full offseason. I would use the word "frightened."

During the last offseason, I saw my team be taken over by new management, which immediately fired its boneheaded general manager and hired a new mysterious one; there was the acqusition of a bonafide starter for what was at the time basically a spare part; there was the acquisition of my beloved Mr. Hatte; and there was the signing of a player whom I live in fear will be traded. Hell, last offseason was Krivsky's best time so far.

So recent experience has made me perhaps overly optimistic.

[GridironGrace]

You do realize that if Dunn had done something else the whole inning would have been different?

The next batter may have hit one into the dugout, killing Phillips fpr all we know.


yea yea.. but dunns gotta know if he's a lead off hitter he's gotta get on base.... lol

he doesnt realize that i dont think.. he's all about the long ball? i dunno just astounds me how a guy can only pull a ball... they play MLB for goodness sake

[MrCinatit]

In all seriousness - this is the only type of game Franklyn should be allowed to pitch in.

[vaticanplum]

September is when the cream rises....

I made that point last week about a certain other team and got halfway crucified for it ;)

[Matt700wlw]

Would it be wrong for me to almost hope this team loses 6 or 7+ in a row so I can stop being hopeful of something that's not going to happen?

That sounds wrong...very wrong.

I don't think I could actually do it...

[Matt700wlw]

In all seriousness - this is the only type of game Franklyn should be allowed to pitch in.

It's not close yet ;)

[Falls City Beer]

During the last offseason, I saw my team be taken over by new management, which immediately fired its boneheaded general manager and hired a new mysterious one; there was the acqusition of a bonafide starter for what was at the time basically a spare part; there was the acquisition of my beloved Mr. Hatte; and there was the signing of a player whom I live in fear will be traded. Hell, last offseason was Krivsky's best time so far.

So recent experience has made me perhaps overly optimistic.

Dunn will be traded. I have no doubt about that. And the return package will include Tony Batista. Somehow. Maybe Wayne'll coax him out of retirement?

[vaticanplum]

Would it be wrong for me to almost hope this team loses 6 or 7+ in a row so I can stop being hopeful of something that's not going to happen?

That sounds wrong...very wrong.

I don't think I could actually do it...

Don't do that. Baseball ultimately rewards the faithful, unless they're Cubs fans.

[Matt700wlw]

Dunn will be traded. I have no doubt about that. And the return package will include Tony Batista. Somehow. Maybe Wayne'll coax him out of retirement?

Ouch. :)

It wouldn't shock me if he were traded...

[GridironGrace]

Dunn will be traded. I have no doubt about that. And the return package will include Tony Batista. Somehow. Maybe Wayne'll coax him out of retirement?

I dont see him being traded.... but hey.. i didnt see lopez nor kearns being traded either

[edabbs44]

During the last offseason, I saw my team be taken over by new management, which immediately fired its boneheaded general manager and hired a new mysterious one; there was the acqusition of a bonafide starter for what was at the time basically a spare part; there was the acquisition of my beloved Mr. Hatte; and there was the signing of a player whom I live in fear will be traded. Hell, last offseason was Krivsky's best time so far.

So recent experience has made me perhaps overly optimistic.

OK...he should be platooned at the GM spot. From October to March, he is the GM. We just need a GM for during the season and we might have something here...:)

[CTA513]

we can only hope he is smart enough to release him at the end of the year.

:beerme:

[alloverjr]

Apparently, pitches that Hat doesn't swing at should be automatic balls. Regardless of location. Stop whining, man.

[TheBigLebowski]

I wouldn't mind one bit if he was traded, but the return would have to be pretty high. I'm talking Jon Rauch high.

[redsfanmia]

Dunn is gone IMO, the slump he is in now and the contract he signed and the 30 lbs he has put on signal that.

[George Foster]

Would it be wrong for me to almost hope this team loses 6 or 7+ in a row so I can stop being hopeful of something that's not going to happen?

That sounds wrong...very wrong.

I don't think I could actually do it...

It would be wrong, however it might get us a new manager. I'm hoping for
.500 with all those Chicago and pittsburgh games left on the schedule.

[GridironGrace]

Besides.. be honest.. what kinda return we gonna get for Dunn after this showing in Sept????? Why have a player who's great for half a season but cant get it done for his team when its needed most......

[vaticanplum]

Dunn does not have lifetime immunity in my book of baseball love. But if he is traded this year, I will throw myself off a cliff.

[NDRed]

:sleep:

[TheBigLebowski]

Michalak time!!! Bust open a cold one (or 9)!

[PuffyPig]

I dont see him being traded.... but hey.. i didnt see lopez nor kearns being traded either


That's hard to imagine.

Kearns and Lopez were on everyone's list of guys most likely to be traded.

[Falls City Beer]

I wouldn't mind one bit if he was traded, but the return would have to be pretty high. I'm talking Jon Rauch high.

Always set your sights high!

*Shouldn't there be a poster of a kitty cat dangling from a claw on a branch*

[vaticanplum]

Michalak time!!! Bust open a cold one (or 9)!

You know, I've never been a fan of white wine, but it tastes pretty good going down with my pasta. And with this game.

[Falls City Beer]

Dunn does not have lifetime immunity in my book of baseball love. But if he is traded this year, I will throw myself off a cliff.

Will you finally see the light viz. Krivsky if he trades him? :)

[Matt700wlw]

It would be wrong, however it might get us a new manager. I'm hoping for
.500 with all those Chicago and pittsburgh games left on the schedule.

Hmmmmm....

I'd feel dirty...but 10 games under .500 in a crappy league could be enough to pull the trigger

[George Foster]

Merc is in the TV booth right now and he is not ready for the radio booth....not even close.

[vaticanplum]

Will you finally see the light viz. Krivsky if he trades him? :)

There are two people I will accept in return for Dunn: Johan Santana or Roy Halladay. I will still throw myself off a cliff and curse the Reds on the way down, but the objective part of me that remains will recognize that it was an understandable trade.

Apart from that -- yes, I will. You can hold me to that.

[TheBigLebowski]

Did Brian Giles fly out last inning? My gamecast has confused me..said Giles flew out to center, then Gonzalez GIDP forcing Giles out at 2nd.

[NDRed]

games over :help:

[TheBigLebowski]

There are two people I will accept in return for Dunn: Johan Santana or Roy Halladay. I will still throw myself off a cliff and curse the Reds on the way down, but the objective part of me that remains will recognize that it was an understandable trade.

Apart from that -- yes, I will. You can hold me to that.

Sister friend - if we get either one of those guys in return for Dunn, it'll be the heist of the century.

[TheBigLebowski]

This game is a waste of time tonight. I'll check in periodically, but I'm going to spend my night doing something the Reds forgot to do - something productive.

[Matt700wlw]

Loriano looks to be out for the year.

Ouch.

[Reds Fanatic]

There are two people I will accept in return for Dunn: Johan Santana or Roy Halladay. I will still throw myself off a cliff and curse the Reds on the way down, but the objective part of me that remains will recognize that it was an understandable trade.

Apart from that -- yes, I will. You can hold me to that.
I would love to get one of those 2 but if they trade Dunn I guarantee you it will be a bunch of prospects they get rather than a big name.

[George Foster]

Merc was just ask how good can Dunn be. "as good as he want's to be, but he is still a kid."

[Falls City Beer]

Ya know, I never got this question answered, but have the Reds re-upped Lohse for next year or not?

[Matt700wlw]

Ya know, I never got this question answered, but have the Reds re-upped Lohse for next year or not?

Was his contract up after this year?

If it was, I've haven't heard they extended it...

[vaticanplum]

Sister friend - if we get either one of those guys in return for Dunn, it'll be the heist of the century.

Hmph. Don't the baseball gods owe us a heist?

[Reds Fanatic]

Ya know, I never got this question answered, but have the Reds re-upped Lohse for next year or not?
I don't think they have re-upped him yet but he is arbitration eligible going into next year.

[Matt700wlw]

Wow...Reds get Oswalt AND Clemens on the Houston trip next week...

[GridironGrace]

Wow...Reds get Oswalt AND Clemens on the Houston trip next week...
wonderful:bang:

[GridironGrace]

5 of padres 11 hits are DOUBLES lol

[Reds Fanatic]

Wow...Reds get Oswalt AND Clemens on the Houston trip next week...
Astros will only be a game behind the Reds after tonight's loss.

[Matt700wlw]

Astros will only be a game behind the Reds after tonight's loss.

Even better

:bang:

[Reds Fanatic]

In other scores Mets have come back to take a 3-2 lead on the Marlins in the 6th. Phillies lead the 2nd game of the DH 2-1 over the Braves in the 2nd.

[flyer85]

Astros will only be a game behind the Reds after tonight's loss.it isn't going to matter

[vaticanplum]

I'm putting in another plug for the RedsLive! game thread. Play by play and fun kiddies over there.

[GridironGrace]

Javvy starts off the comeback :pray:

[MrCinatit]

it isn't going to matter

Very true, that. No one remembers who came in second when they don't make the postseason.

[Matt700wlw]

Very true, that. No one remembers who came in second when they don't make the postseason.

Except the fans of the team who did :D

[GridironGrace]

2 GIDP by WISE

if he bats again ill not watch another game he's in the lineup for

[flyer85]

a very "Wise" decision. I wish he would just strikeout

[CTA513]

Wise hits into another double play.
I cant wait till they trade Dunn and let someone like Wise play in his spot.

:thumbup:

[Falls City Beer]

It's almost literally as though the Reds are trying to play the worst possible baseball they've ever played.

[GridironGrace]

im out.. gonna play some MVP Baseball on PC.. hopefully MY REDS will win

[RedFanAlways1966]

a very "Wise" decision. I wish he would just strikeout


Then maybe Ryan Freel can loan him the golden sombrero Jake Peavey gave him last week. ;)

But I guess two ABs have equaled those four Ryan had on Sept. 2nd. :bang:

Not sure if the BRM or the '27 Yanks could have won this game with the REDS pitching tonight...

[Reds Fanatic]

A 3 run homer makes it 10-0 Padres.

[WVRedsFan]

Wise hits into another double play.
I cant wait till they trade Dunn and let someone like Wise play in his spot.

:thumbup:

Exactly. We had what many considered a "dream " outfield, even if the hated Griffey was part of it. Dunn in left, Griff and Kearns. Willy Mo in the wings when Griff got hurt. Everyone in MLB talked about 120 HR's from that trio. Today, we have, due to Griff's injury. Dunn in a slump, Wise the fodder he is, and Hollandsworth the reject. Great going, Wayne. We have an erratic Phillips, a stiff Aurilia, an overachieving (for awhile) Hatteberg and Edwin in the infield. You cannot tell me that that lineup is better than what we started out with in April. We've added pitchers, but none of them seem to be worth a Kearns and Lopez. I will say the WMP for Arroyo deal was a good one, but the Kearns deal negated that. This team is a mess.

If Krivsky trades Dunn this off season for prospects, there should be a hanging near the Joe Nuxhall statue at the ballpark. Change and dismantle a team if you must, but get somethig for the players you trade. Only one trade worked. Acquiring Phillips, Ross, Hatteberg was nice, but the trades sucked. Big time (and I hate that word). It does very little good to have great pitching when you can't score.

Speaking of scoring, Piazza kills another one of our improved pitchers. :bang:

[RedFanAlways1966]

It's almost literally as though the Reds are trying to play the worst possible baseball they've ever played.

Did they forget that there is no mercy-rule in MLB?!? :)

[NDRed]

seasons over :bash:

[Matt700wlw]

:laugh:

:cry:

[NDRed]

trade :dunn:

whats dunn doing striking out every at bat and standing in left field

[RedFanAlways1966]

seasons over :bash:

On the bright side (gotta try to find something good at this point!)...

That was said last year around May 15.
That was said in 2004 around July 16.
That was said in 2003 around July 17.

I know, I know... I am trying too hard! :D

[dman]

I haven't really had much of an opinion one way or another about Krivsky's trades and Narron's (mis)managing, but sometime between now and the start of next season Mr. Castellini needs to call both of them on the carpet for a "come to Jesus" meeting.

[NDRed]

we didnt make the playoffs and thats the season :(

[RedLegSuperStar]

trade :dunn:

whats dunn doing striking out every at bat and standing in left field

yeah but to some here on these boards he's the future..

[Reds Fanatic]

When the contract of Narron was extended this team was 30-24 since then the team is now 42-49. He should not be back next year though I know he will be.

[RedLegSuperStar]

we didnt make the playoffs and thats the season :(

we'd need some major meltdowns to happen and for us to be perfect for any shot..

[Matt700wlw]

Jack Johnson to pitch....I'm sorry, Jason Johnson