PDA

View Full Version : World Series Game 2 Thread



Reds Fanatic
10-22-2006, 09:29 PM
Pitching matchup: Rogers vs. Weaver

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 09:32 PM
Cards making Rogers work.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 09:35 PM
Jay-Z has to be stupidest looking human being on the face of the earth.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 09:40 PM
Monroe provides some offense finally for the Tigers.

Reds Fanatic
10-22-2006, 09:40 PM
Monroe with a long homer. 1-0 Tigers.

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 09:40 PM
Monroe goes yard on Weaver to LF. 1-0, Tigers.

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 09:42 PM
Sorry to be so mean... but Polanco's stocking cap thing makes me root against him. Be a man, Placido! :devil:

Reds Fanatic
10-22-2006, 09:46 PM
Guillen doubles in a run. 2-0 Tigers.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 09:46 PM
More patient ABs. Better results. Simple as that.

mth123
10-22-2006, 09:46 PM
Jay-Z has to be stupidest looking human being on the face of the earth.

(cough) Scott (cough) Spezio (cough)

bigredmachine1976
10-22-2006, 09:55 PM
Was that pine tar? Sure is interesting that it's not there at the start of the 2nd inning.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:00 PM
Was that pine tar? Sure is interesting that it's not there at the start of the 2nd inning.

On whose bat? Oh, you mean Rogers.

Outshined_One
10-22-2006, 10:02 PM
If the Tigers win this one, I predict Cardinals fans will be all over the fact that Rogers had that brown stuff on his hand.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:04 PM
If the Tigers win this one, I predict Cardinals fans will be all over the fact that Rogers had that brown stuff on his hand.

Which is why you shouldn't have anything on your hand. If for no other reason than to shut up the crowing of the opposing fans.

Though, I suppose if he shuts the Cards down the rest of the way without the brown stuff, their case is a little less powerful.

Outshined_One
10-22-2006, 10:10 PM
My personal theory is that Kenny Rogers was in the john before the game and ran out of toilet paper.

Chip R
10-22-2006, 10:21 PM
What is this strange strategy that Rogers and Weaver are doing? They seem to be throwing the ball inside on purpose. Reds pitchers never do that. ;)

MrCinatit
10-22-2006, 10:33 PM
Obviously, no one ever taught them the magic of "pitch to contact.":p:

Chip R
10-22-2006, 10:35 PM
Obviously, no one ever taught them the magic of "pitch to contact.":p:


Hush up! You want the other teams to learn our secret?

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 10:40 PM
Ugh... FOX trying to play-up the brown stuff on Rogers' fingers. It was pine tar to make his grip better (same reason it is used on the bat handle)... dry hands due to the weather. Nothing to make the ball move funny. The umps did the right thing by making him remove it. No reason for ejection or a major in-depth analysis. He should have known better. No Emmy award will be had for the over-the-top analysis... so stop!

:D

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:43 PM
Ugh... FOX trying to play-up the brown stuff on Rogers' fingers. It was pine tar to make his grip better (same reason it is used on the bat handle)... dry hands due to the weather. Nothing to make the ball move funny. The umps did the right thing by making him remove it. No reason for ejection or a major in-depth analysis. He should have known better. No Emmy award will be had for the over-the-top analysis... so stop!

:D

It is over the top. I agree. But I expect it from FoxSports.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:44 PM
Inge hasn't been fooled by Weaver one bit tonight.

MrCinatit
10-22-2006, 10:44 PM
I think Joe Buck just accused Sean Casey of being slow! Even when healthy!
Where do they get their information, because I've never heard that before!

Chip R
10-22-2006, 10:45 PM
Fear the speed of Sean Casey. It looks like that calf injury hasn't affected his speed after all. ;)

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:45 PM
Weaver's curve really isn't that great. It's just that Granderson can't touch it.

Phhhl
10-22-2006, 10:46 PM
LaRussa and co. are messing with Rogers over the pine tar thing. Interesting. If he is cheating, do the Cards have to file a protest?

I'm sorry, applying pine tar to a baseball would seem to be a fairly signifigant rules violation. Pitchers have to get permission from the umpires to blow on their hands when it's cold. How can pine tar be blown out of proportion, considering this is the World Championship of baseball?

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:46 PM
If Weaver gets out of this without giving up a run, the Cards will sweep this Series.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:48 PM
Good lord, Detroit's offense...:rolleyes:

Reds Fanatic
10-22-2006, 10:48 PM
A huge missed scoring opportunity for the Tigers. Bases loaded no outs and they don't score.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:49 PM
Ya know. This board gets all pissy when the Reds' patient offense fails to get the runner in. Well, right there, you're seeing what happens when an impatient offense gets runners on. That door swings both ways.

WMR
10-22-2006, 10:50 PM
Thought I was watching the Reds there for a second that last Tigers AB.

Bases loaded, no outs, no runs... how many times did we see situations unfold just like that this year?

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:51 PM
I'm predicting a 2 run jack by Molina this inning.

Phhhl
10-22-2006, 10:51 PM
If Weaver gets out of this without giving up a run, the Cards will sweep this Series.

You seem to have an agenda FCB. Do you really believe St. Louis is a better club than the Tigers? Man for man, on paper and however you want to analyze it, this appears like a mismatch. Just curious.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:53 PM
You seem to have an agenda FCB. Do you really believe St. Louis is a better club than the Tigers? Man for man, on paper and however you want to analyze it, this appears like a mismatch. Just curious.

Cards have a better offense, better (or maybe it's fairer to say hotter) bullpen, and the two teams' top two pitchers are comparable in quality (which is all that really matters in terms of starters in the postseason).

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:55 PM
Somehow, they keep Molina in the park.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:56 PM
Awesome play by Rogers. I mean, I'm not even as old as Rogers, and I couldn't make that play. :p:

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 10:57 PM
LaRussa and co. are messing with Rogers over the pine tar thing. Interesting. If he is cheating, do the Cards have to file a protest?

I'm sorry, applying pine tar to a baseball would seem to be a fairly signifigant rules violation. Pitchers have to get permission from the umpires to blow on their hands when it's cold. How can pine tar be blown out of proportion, considering this is the World Championship of baseball?

As long as it is not making the ball move the umps are not going to do anything other make him remove it. Grip... it helps the grip on the ball. It was noticed and removed. Not really a major thing. Do they have the right to eject him? Yes... they can eject you for about anything. But why have an effect on the World Championship by tossing a starter early in a game for trying to help his grip in cold weather which causes dry hands? Sand paper, oil, vaseline... definitely eject. Pine Tar... I agree with the umpires call: Remove and play on.

Heck, it is better than prolonging the game by licking his hand off the mound between every pitch... which is very legal and more-or-less has the same effect. :)

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 10:58 PM
We don't even know if it was pine tar.

Chip R
10-22-2006, 10:59 PM
LaRussa and co. are messing with Rogers over the pine tar thing. Interesting. If he is cheating, do the Cards have to file a protest?

I'm sorry, applying pine tar to a baseball would seem to be a fairly signifigant rules violation. Pitchers have to get permission from the umpires to blow on their hands when it's cold. How can pine tar be blown out of proportion, considering this is the World Championship of baseball?


While it is a rules violation, it's up to the discretion of the umpire on how to enforce it. He could have probably ejected Rogers from the game, but that is rather extreme. He probably told him to wash that stuff off or else next time there will be punishment. If LaRussa were protesting the game, he would have done it already and we would have known about it.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with Fox creating this story. If this were a regular season game, they wouldn't have those extreme closeups of the pitcher's hand and no one would have been the wiser about it. Now if someone on the Cards had suspected it without watching it on TV, I'd be OK with it.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:01 PM
While it is a rules violation, it's up to the discretion of the umpire on how to enforce it. He could have probably ejected Rogers from the game, but that is rather extreme. He probably told him to wash that stuff off or else next time there will be punishment. If LaRussa were protesting the game, he would have done it already and we would have known about it.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with Fox creating this story. If this were a regular season game, they wouldn't have those extreme closeups of the pitcher's hand and no one would have been the wiser about it. Now if someone on the Cards had suspected it without watching it on TV, I'd be OK with it.

They decide; you report.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:02 PM
How screwed would the Tigers be without Guillen?

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 11:04 PM
I do not think you can lodge a protest over something like that. Breaking a rule is usually not reason for a protest. Cork being found in a bat would be a similiar violation. Ejection is the punishment, but not changing or replaying a game after it is done.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:04 PM
I do not think you can lodge a protest over something like that. Breaking a rule is usually not reason for a protest. Cork being found in a bat would be a similiar violation. Ejection is the punishment, but not changing or replaying a game after it is done.

I think you can protest most anything.

Phhhl
10-22-2006, 11:05 PM
Cards have a better offense, better (or maybe it's fairer to say hotter) bullpen, and the two teams' top two pitchers are comparable in quality (which is all that really matters in terms of starters in the postseason).

I like Wainright. I REALLY like that kid. But, the Cardinal bullpen has done it with mirrors otherwise. Looper is a stiff, and Tyler Johnson, Flores and Hancock are freaks. Aside from Pujols and considering Rolen's problems, I don't know if another Cardinal could break the Tigers' lineup. The Cards have Carpenter and four #4 starters. They could win the series, but it would be an upset. The worst team in baseball can win a best of seven series against anybody, but why buck the odds when predicting?

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:05 PM
LaRussa and co. are messing with Rogers over the pine tar thing. Interesting. If he is cheating, do the Cards have to file a protest?

I'm sorry, applying pine tar to a baseball would seem to be a fairly signifigant rules violation. Pitchers have to get permission from the umpires to blow on their hands when it's cold. How can pine tar be blown out of proportion, considering this is the World Championship of baseball?

The umpires use a mixure of pine tar and mud to rub up 6-8 boxes of baseballs before the game.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:07 PM
Way to go, Case.

Reds Fanatic
10-22-2006, 11:07 PM
Casey singles in a run. 3-0 Tigers.

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:07 PM
The Mayor comes through!!!!:beerme:

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 11:07 PM
I think you can protest most anything.

Probably. But I believe there are things that are not allowed to be protested (E.G. an ump's crappy strikezone). Some protests probably get denied moments after the thing is "officially filed". I think this one would apply!

Chip R
10-22-2006, 11:09 PM
They decide; you report.


:lol:

Perhaps that cameraman is in the same union as that cameraman Kenny decked last year and is exacting revenge for his union brother.

That was somewhat tongue in cheek but you could see how that could set a bad precedent. I might have been less uncomfortable with it if they had just showed it and not commented on it. No accusation of bias from me but McCarver and Buck were/are Cardinals employees.

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:11 PM
Probably. But I believe there are things that are not allowed to be protested (E.G. an ump's crappy strikezone). Some protests probably get denied moments after the thing is "officially filed". I think this one would apply!

you have to be cought doing it by an umpire during the game. All Rogers has to say was "uh I spilled hot coco on my hands" or "it was mud."

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:13 PM
Spiezio has a pretty hot girlfriend. He has a tatoo of her on his right arm in her panties....pulling them down.:thumbup:

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:14 PM
Spiezio has a pretty hot girlfriend. He has a tatoo of her on his right arm in her panties....pulling them down.:thumbup:

Class. All class.

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:15 PM
Class. All class.

I'll be back in a second, I'll provide a link:thumbup:

RedFanAlways1966
10-22-2006, 11:17 PM
Strange... after almost three quarters the Tigers, with their 3 runs, have outscored Univ. of Cincinnati's football team . And Cincy is winning their FOOTBALL game!

2-0, UC over South Florida. 3-0, Tigers over Cards.

Chip R
10-22-2006, 11:17 PM
Spiezio has a pretty hot girlfriend. He has a tatoo of her on his right arm in her panties....pulling them down.:thumbup:


He better marry that girl cause if they break up, his next girlfriend probably won't appreciate that.

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:18 PM
Here is Mr. Class!

vaticanplum
10-22-2006, 11:20 PM
Kenny Rogers beat the Yankees and beat up a cameraman. Why do I find him sexy? Why?

edit: this has nothing to do with hideous Scott Spezio or his hideous tattoo.

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:21 PM
Kenny Rogers beat the Yankees and beat up a cameraman. Why do I find him sexy? Why?

It's that day old facial hair with a hint of gray.....you dig it baby!

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:22 PM
It's that day old facial hair with a hint of gray.....you dig it baby!

Well if that's all it takes, why aren't the dames crawling all over my business?

I still have my REAL hair too!

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:25 PM
Now that was a vicious breaking pitch from Johnson.

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:26 PM
Well if that's all it takes, why aren't the dames crawling all over my business?

I still have my REAL hair too!

With all due respect, your setting in your computer room in Phily, in your underwear and dress socks. Rogers is pitching game 2 of the "show":laugh:

vaticanplum
10-22-2006, 11:26 PM
Well if that's all it takes, why aren't the dames crawling all over my business?

I still have my REAL hair too!

Maybe you need to beat up a cameraman. My mother always said there is no accounting for taste. I've been working to prove her right for about ten years.

Johnson is good. What do the Cardinals feed their oddball/reject pitchers?

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:27 PM
With all due respect, your setting in your computer room in Phily, in your underwear and dress socks. Rogers is pitching game 2 of the "show":laugh:


Yeah, but can he grade a batch of student essays on the history of aesthetics?

Chip R
10-22-2006, 11:28 PM
Johnson is good. What do the Cardinals feed their oddball/reject pitchers?


A steady diet from the Dave Duncan recipe book.

vaticanplum
10-22-2006, 11:33 PM
Polanco's outerwear kills me. I'm considering loaning him my navy blue furry earmuffs. I have an actual muff for the hands too; perhaps I'll send him that as well.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:34 PM
Gross. Kinney has a lady butt and hips. Just like Will Clark. That's a bad look on a guy.

vaticanplum
10-22-2006, 11:35 PM
Gross. Kinney has a lady butt and hips. Just like Will Clark. That's a bad look on a guy.

Julian Casablancas of the Strokes is built the same way. I believe it causes him few problems.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:38 PM
Julian Casablancas of the Strokes is built the same way. I believe it causes him few problems.

I'm not talking about junk in the trunk. I mean like mid-life lady butt. Gravity-hasn't-been-kind butt.

vaticanplum
10-22-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm not talking about junk in the trunk. I mean like mid-life lady butt. Gravity-hasn't-been-kind butt.

I resent the implication that I have not studied Julian Casablancas's form in minute detail. He has child-bearing hips, I'm telling you.

I think I realized why I am enjoying Rogers so much: he is pitching like a stud.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:46 PM
I resent the implication that I have not studied Julian Casablancas's form in minute detail. He has child-bearing hips, I'm telling you.

I think I realized why I am enjoying Rogers so much: he is pitching like a stud.

I don't even know what Julian Casablancas looks like. But if he looks like he's going to push out a kid, a la Louis Gossett, Jr in Enemy Mine, well, that's kind of creepy.

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:48 PM
I don't even know what Julian Casablancas looks like. But if he looks like he's going to push out a kid, a la Louis Gossett, Jr in Enemy Mine, well, that's kind of creepy.

My wife just said you were "Dennis Miller funny"....dude that's a major compliment.:thumbup:

vaticanplum
10-22-2006, 11:49 PM
I could not find a picture of his butt. But for you guys, just for you, I'll keep trying.

vaticanplum
10-22-2006, 11:50 PM
PS There will be no making fun of that man, as I love him deeply. I even kissed him once. On the cheek, because I am polite.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:51 PM
My wife just said you were "Dennis Miller funny"....dude that's a major compliment.:thumbup:

My wife's got a less glowing honorific for it.

Falls City Beer
10-22-2006, 11:52 PM
PS There will be no making fun of that man, as I love him deeply. I even kissed him once. On the cheek, because I am polite.

I would NEVER insult a pre-op tranny.

vaticanplum
10-22-2006, 11:58 PM
I would NEVER insult a pre-op tranny.

Don't you have aesthetics to grade?

George Foster
10-22-2006, 11:59 PM
Getting back to baseball who pitched the last CG in a world Series?

Outshined_One
10-23-2006, 12:01 AM
Getting back to baseball who pitched the last CG in a world Series?

Beckett?

Falls City Beer
10-23-2006, 12:01 AM
Don't you have aesthetics to grade?

Horace probably had boobs for all I know. And I'm sure with a name like Longinus, there was something happening in the gender-identification department.

That's the next great field of study!

Falls City Beer
10-23-2006, 12:02 AM
Getting back to baseball who pitched the last CG in a world Series?

Did Pedro throw a CG in 2004?

vaticanplum
10-23-2006, 12:05 AM
As a side note (meaning actually having to do with baseball), sometimes it hits me what a perfectly designed game this is. I watch so much of it that I don't think about it that often, but the idea of a double play, the naturalness of everything centering around the number 3, just even the way the bases are laid out, it's all just perfect. It stands so apart to me from other sports, which seemed to have their rules "invented" for them -- "Hey yeah, and this should be the penalty for this! and this should count for this much!" -- whereas baseball just seems so much more organic to me on the surface, but with so much strategy behind it. I can't explain it, but it is just so different from any other game, as close to perfect as a game can get in my opinion.

This usually happens to me at least once during the postseason.

Falls City Beer
10-23-2006, 12:05 AM
Beckett?

Twas. Game 6.

vaticanplum
10-23-2006, 12:07 AM
Beckett?

It was Beckett. Last game of 2003. I remember it all too well.

edit: I will finish reading the dang thread from now on.

Reds Fanatic
10-23-2006, 12:11 AM
They are taking Rogers out after 8. Another great pitching performance from Rogers.

George Foster
10-23-2006, 12:17 AM
So many former Reds....the big German gets another hit.

George Foster
10-23-2006, 12:19 AM
this is horrible...reminds me of our season

Reds Fanatic
10-23-2006, 12:19 AM
Jones error prolongs the inning and Edmonds doubles in a run. The tying runs are on 2nd and 3rd.

vaticanplum
10-23-2006, 12:19 AM
For the love of God, Detroit, pull it together!!

Reds Fanatic
10-23-2006, 12:20 AM
Now Wilson is hit by the pitch to load the bases. It would be a shame if they blow this after that great start by Rogers.

MrCinatit
10-23-2006, 12:20 AM
Uh oh. This could be a chance for Molina to do his Gene Tenace immitation.

vaticanplum
10-23-2006, 12:20 AM
It SHOULD go without saying that this is an absolute must-win for Detroit going into St. Louis against Carpenter and the almighty Suppan.

Falls City Beer
10-23-2006, 12:20 AM
Jones sucks. I hate that managers feel they HAVE to put their "closer" in.

MrCinatit
10-23-2006, 12:21 AM
Or maybe not.

George Foster
10-23-2006, 12:22 AM
Rogers......:beerme: He is the LEADER of the Tigers!!!

Falls City Beer
10-23-2006, 12:22 AM
Todd Jones. If I'm Leyland, that SOB doesn't pick up a ball for the rest of the Series.

George Foster
10-23-2006, 12:23 AM
Jones sucks. I hate that managers feel they HAVE to put their "closer" in.

I was typing the samething when the 3rd out was recorded. They would of stoned Leyland after the game if they would of lost, especially after pitching to Sir Aldork last night.

George Foster
10-23-2006, 12:24 AM
Rogers......:beerme: He is the LEADER of the Tigers!!!

Who is our leader?

Falls City Beer
10-23-2006, 12:24 AM
Ah-aight. Night y'all. Too blessed to be stressed and all that.

vaticanplum
10-23-2006, 12:28 AM
Beautifully, beautifully done by Rogers. I makes me happy to see a semi-old guy pull that off when it counts.

Why Is Kenny Rogers Sexy? update for anyone who cares: when I saw him screaming in the dugout, I realized what I think it is: if I had a problem with the kitchen sink, i'm pretty sure Kenny Rogers could just yell it into submission. Maybe pick up a c-wrench and shake it or something, but that's it.

When they interviewed him, though, I was reminded of something that I think every time I hear him speak: I'm pretty sure Kenny Rogers is on drugs. Not steroids, just, like, normal-people drugs. Not that this would hamper any relationship built around the working status of a kitchen sink.

I should really get some sleep too.

vaticanplum
10-23-2006, 12:30 AM
And Eric Byrnes is DEFINITELY on speed.

Heath
10-23-2006, 01:09 AM
and the ESPN conspiracy theories are out of whack right now.

sheesh.

vaticanplum
10-23-2006, 01:11 AM
and the ESPN conspiracy theories are out of whack right now.

sheesh.

What are they saying?

Heath
10-23-2006, 01:17 AM
There was a "foreign substance" on Kenny's hand - potentially pine-tar could have been dirt, who knows.

ESPN, who ironically has no glass in their house, is whining that Rogers should have been tossed - but he wasn't - since LaRussa didn't ask for a checkup.

cReds1
10-23-2006, 01:22 AM
As long as it is not making the ball move the umps are not going to do anything other make him remove it. Grip... it helps the grip on the ball. It was noticed and removed. Not really a major thing. Do they have the right to eject him? Yes... they can eject you for about anything. But why have an effect on the World Championship by tossing a starter early in a game for trying to help his grip in cold weather which causes dry hands? Sand paper, oil, vaseline... definitely eject. Pine Tar... I agree with the umpires call: Remove and play on.

Heck, it is better than prolonging the game by licking his hand off the mound between every pitch... which is very legal and more-or-less has the same effect. :)

Yea, none of the foreign substance rubbed the ball. LOL Get Real! It helps the grip on the ball? LOL and you have posted this much in this forum? Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee

It was illegal and baseball will cover this up once again, i say this every time something comes up because of the way they treat certain players and BAN them for other things. This is BS! The rule states you CAN NOT, now pay attention here, YOU CAN NOT HAVE ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE....

8.02
The pitcher shall not --
(a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand. PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately call a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeated offenders shall be subject to a fine by the league president.
(2) expectorate on the ball, either hand or his glove;
(3) rub the ball on his glove, person or clothing;
(4) apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball;
(5) deface the ball in any manner; or
(6) deliver a ball defaced in a manner prescribed by Rule 8.02(a)(2) through (5) or what is called the “shine” ball, “spit” ball, “mud” ball or “emery” ball. The pitcher is allowed to rub the ball between his bare hands.
PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6):
(a) The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance. For such infraction of this section (b) the penalty shall be immediate ejection from the game. In addition, the pitcher shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

GAC
10-23-2006, 06:16 AM
Todd Jones. If I'm Leyland, that SOB doesn't pick up a ball for the rest of the Series.

Todd Jones is one of the guys that helped get them there.

In this post-season, he has recorded 4 out of 4 save opportunities without giving up a single ER.

During the regular season he appeared in 62 games and recorded 37 saves with a respectable 3.94 ERA.

.276 BAA .312 OB% .382 SLG% .694 OPS

Heath
10-23-2006, 10:54 AM
Yea, none of the foreign substance rubbed the ball. LOL Get Real! It helps the grip on the ball? LOL and you have posted this much in this forum? Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee

It was illegal and baseball will cover this up once again, i say this every time something comes up because of the way they treat certain players and BAN them for other things. This is BS! The rule states you CAN NOT, now pay attention here, YOU CAN NOT HAVE ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE....

8.02
The pitcher shall not --
(a) (1) Bring his pitching hand in contact with his mouth or lips while in the 18 foot circle surrounding the pitching rubber. EXCEPTION: Provided it is agreed to by both managers, the umpire prior to the start of a game played in cold weather, may permit the pitcher to blow on his hand. PENALTY: For violation of this part of this rule the umpires shall immediately call a ball. However, if the pitch is made and a batter reaches first base on a hit, an error, a hit batsman or otherwise, and no other runner is put out before advancing at least one base, the play shall proceed without reference to the violation. Repeated offenders shall be subject to a fine by the league president.
(2) expectorate on the ball, either hand or his glove;
(3) rub the ball on his glove, person or clothing;
(4) apply a foreign substance of any kind to the ball;
(5) deface the ball in any manner; or
(6) deliver a ball defaced in a manner prescribed by Rule 8.02(a)(2) through (5) or what is called the “shine” ball, “spit” ball, “mud” ball or “emery” ball. The pitcher is allowed to rub the ball between his bare hands.
PENALTY: For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6):
(a) The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance. For such infraction of this section (b) the penalty shall be immediate ejection from the game. In addition, the pitcher shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

There is NO coverup....it was MISSED.

There IS a difference.

GIK
10-23-2006, 11:08 AM
That and the Cardinals still couldn't hit Rogers from innings 2-8. The most success they had was in inning 1, the ONLY inning in question.

GAC
10-23-2006, 11:16 AM
That and the Cardinals still couldn't hit Rogers from innings 2-8. The most success they had was in inning 1, the ONLY inning in question.

Yep. What was their excuse for not htting him after this "foreign" substance was removed after the 1st? ;)

How many of the games are you able to attend Matt?

GIK
10-23-2006, 11:27 AM
I didn't make Game 1, but was there last night. If the series goes 6 or 7 (which it should) I'll do all I can to get down to Comerica again. A few of my friends who came last night had Standing Room Only and, honestly, where they let you stand is pretty nice. I might see if I can at least do that. If not, though, I had a great time at Game 2. The weather kept people a little quiet at times, but the park was still much more elevated than during the regular season.

RedFanAlways1966
10-23-2006, 11:29 AM
Yea, none of the foreign substance rubbed the ball. LOL Get Real! It helps the grip on the ball? LOL and you have posted this much in this forum? Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee

It was illegal and baseball will cover this up once again, i say this every time something comes up because of the way they treat certain players and BAN them for other things. This is BS! The rule states you CAN NOT, now pay attention here, YOU CAN NOT HAVE ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE....


Good thing you aren't umpiring. You lack tact and good judgment. Tact? Learn it before you post again. Good judgment... guess you weren't born with it, sorry about your luck.

RedFanAlways1966
10-23-2006, 11:30 AM
There is NO coverup....it was MISSED.

There IS a difference.

Let him play Tim McCarver and have his fun. It is obvious some people aspire to be Tim. :eek:

Heath
10-23-2006, 01:48 PM
Let him play Tim McCarver and have his fun. It is pobvious some people aspire to be Tim. :eek:

Or ESPN's Baseball Tonight.

There was more whining there last night than in my daughter's day care.

savafan
10-23-2006, 02:16 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6088362?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49


Rogers said he had a "big clump of dirt on his hand," then amended it to "dirt and resin and all that stuff put together."

Tigers manager Jim Leyland and umpire supervisor Steve Palermo said Rogers was ordered to remove the dirt, but Rogers said, "No, I saw it and I went and wiped it off and then it was gone."


"Tony went out and said a couple of his players said the ball was acting funny, and they made Kenny wash his hands, and he washed his hands, and he came out the second inning and was pretty clean the rest of the way," Tigers manager Jim Leyland said.


How did the umpires know it was dirt?

"Because it was observed as dirt," Palermo said. "Umpires, they've been around for more than a week or so. This is not their first summer away from home, so they've got a pretty good idea as to what dirt is and what a foreign substance is."


For the record, Rogers must enjoy playing in dirt. In the picture below, on the left you'll see Rogers hand delivering a pitch in the ALCS against the Yankees, and on the right is Rogers pitching in the WS against the Tigers.

http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/mlb_rogers_hand_comparison_275.jpg

RedFanAlways1966
10-23-2006, 03:02 PM
Yea, none of the foreign substance rubbed the ball. LOL Get Real! It helps the grip on the ball? Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee


How did the umpires know it was dirt?

"Because it was observed as dirt," Palermo said. "Umpires, they've been around for more than a week or so. This is not their first summer away from home, so they've got a pretty good idea as to what dirt is and what a foreign substance is."

Two quotes above. One sounds ridiculous. The other sounds rationale. Perhaps Oliver Stone will make a documentary on the ridiculous one... he is good at this and good at the "cover up thing". Seems the umps have been around for more than a week... I guess that tells us who has not been around for at least a week. Go figure.

To use a quote from the ridiculous one... get real! Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee!

bigredmachine1976
10-23-2006, 03:40 PM
Having Rogers wash his hands would not prevent him from placing a banned substance on the ball, only make him store it some place else.

savafan
10-23-2006, 04:11 PM
Having Rogers wash his hands would not prevent him from placing a banned substance on the ball, only make him store it some place else.

Exactly. Why is Rogers allowed to wear a different hat than everyone else? The bottom of the bill of his cap is black, while all of the others are white...

Heath
10-23-2006, 04:32 PM
Exactly. Why is Rogers allowed to wear a different hat than everyone else? The bottom of the bill of his cap is black, while all of the others are white...

Because he's wearing the batting practice cap and there is no stipulation that he has to wear a certain cap.

It's a comfort thing. I must admit that the fitted BP hat is MUCH nicer than the wool ones.

GIK
10-23-2006, 05:08 PM
Another prime piece of evidence that the World Series, and its best-of-seven format, is better than the Superbowl. You've got to win 4 to be the champ.

Game 3 couldn't get here quick enough.

cReds1
10-23-2006, 06:22 PM
There is NO coverup....it was MISSED.

There IS a difference.

How was it missed when the UMP brought it to the attention of the manager to remove it? hUh?

cReds1
10-23-2006, 06:31 PM
Good thing you aren't umpiring. You lack tact and good judgment. Tact? Learn it before you post again. Good judgment... guess you weren't born with it, sorry about your luck.

First off, I guess I was expecting more from a known poster on this board to make a better opinion on the subject, but I guess that was asking too much. I should have been more tactful, but with someone like yourself involved in baseball and putting so much time on this board than I guess I was wrong to think this way. I will remember how to be tactful in the way you are being tactful when it comes to sticking up for ballplayers that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one due to the RULE states it is an automatic suspension no matter how you or the UMP looks at it.

There is no judgement to make in this call, unless all of sudden the UMP can do whatever he wants too because the RULE is subjective even though it is not. Amazing how MLB can ban players for substance abuse (sometimes) and betting on baseball for life, but when one CHEATS the game all he is to do is wipe it off. LOL

Why don't you use good judgement and comment on the RULE instead of pointing out a judgement for the UMP that is not allowed in this case?

cReds1
10-23-2006, 06:33 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6088362?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49








For the record, Rogers must enjoy playing in dirt. In the picture below, on the left you'll see Rogers hand delivering a pitch in the ALCS against the Yankees, and on the right is Rogers pitching in the WS against the Tigers.

http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/mlb_rogers_hand_comparison_275.jpg


Nice Find! So he has been cheating for a long time now, but where is the justice to pentalize him? A RULE is a RULE, right? This for everyone who said Pete deserved what he got.

cReds1
10-23-2006, 06:36 PM
Two quotes above. One sounds ridiculous. The other sounds rationale. Perhaps Oliver Stone will make a documentary on the ridiculous one... he is good at this and good at the "cover up thing". Seems the umps have been around for more than a week... I guess that tells us who has not been around for at least a week. Go figure.

To use a quote from the ridiculous one... get real! Pleaseeeeeeeeeeee!

I don't do quotes, I post what is the FACTS! You posted on something that went beyond what the rule states or should I say in that you agree to allow players and a UMP to CHEAT in baseball, did you not?

vaticanplum
10-23-2006, 06:39 PM
First off, I guess I was expecting more from a known poster on this board to make a better opinion on the subject, but I guess that was asking too much. I should have been more tactful, but with someone like yourself involved in baseball and putting so much time on this board than I guess I was wrong to think this way. I will remember how to be tactful in the way you are being tactful when it comes to sticking up for ballplayers that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt on this one due to the RULE states it is an automatic suspension no matter how you or the UMP looks at it.

There is no judgement to make in this call, unless all of sudden the UMP can do whatever he wants too because the RULE is subjective even though it is not. Amazing how MLB can ban players for substance abuse (sometimes) and betting on baseball for life, but when one CHEATS the game all he is to do is wipe it off. LOL

Why don't you use good judgement and comment on the RULE instead of pointing out a judgement for the UMP that is not allowed in this case?

What are you talking about? Your entire case rests on the assumption that it was proven that he had a banned substance on his hand. Which it wasn't, after investigation.

"There is no judgement to make on this call..." Actually, there is. The judgment was whether he had a banned substance on his hand. The powers-that-be, who investigated it signifcantly better in person than we can through photographs, determined that he didn't. LaRussa, Mr. Screamy, didn't push the matter either. That's pretty much the end of the story.

GIK
10-23-2006, 06:43 PM
Exactly, vatican. The only way Rogers gets penalized is if something is found, which didn't occur.

Move on.

cReds1
10-23-2006, 06:43 PM
It does not matter if the substance was removed or not, the rule states what it states and you can not go around it, but in this case since it is the WS and even though we learned from History like the black sox scandal (not exactly like this), but in today's game it is SUBJECTIVE now to determine if he really meant to do it or not to break a rule?

Heath
10-23-2006, 06:47 PM
How was it missed when the UMP brought it to the attention of the manager to remove it? hUh?

Because the MANAGER did not bring it to the attention of the UMPIRE.

It was REVERSED situation. It was a MISSED opportunity by LaRussa to go out there, check Rogers' hand and ask for a ruling DURING THE INNING.

This isn't like George Brett's bat where there's an inanimate object that is left behind. This is a hand that can be washed.

Also, maybe the UMP gave Rogers the benefit of the doubt. Here's a potential conversation - (gentle reminder - this IS the END of the Cardinal 1st inning)

UMP - Hey Kenny, what's that on your hand.

ROGERS - Oh, that? Dirt. I picked up the rosin bag and it's muddy from the wet dirt when the groundskeepers sprayed the mound before the game.

UMP - Well, it looks like pine tar.

ROGERS - Honest, its not. It's dirt into mud.

UMP - Well, ok - clean it off before you come to the mound next, OK.

ROGERS - Sure.


This is my take - I appreciate Alfonso Marquez going out to tell Rogers and taking him at his word. Marquez then goes to LaRussa, and LaRussa obvious now to the situation, KNOWS that he's NO recourse (the inning is over) shrugs his shoulder.

Whether Rogers is lying is immaterial to the situation.

This is all much ado about nothing, unless you are Karl Ravich looking for "good TV". It's a Sunday night game 2 after a big day of NFL football. Let's find something, blow it up, and see if it "sticks" (pun intended)

Poor way to market the game on the broadcast.

Oh, yeah, GIK brought this point up. I guess the other 7 innings of no-run one hit baseball was REALLY affected by his "dirt".

Nothing to see here folks, move on.

cReds1
10-23-2006, 06:49 PM
What are you talking about? Your entire case rests on the assumption that it was proven that he had a banned substance on his hand. Which it wasn't, after investigation.

"There is no judgement to make on this call..." Actually, there is. The judgment was whether he had a banned substance on his hand. The powers-that-be, who investigated it signifcantly better in person than we can through photographs, determined that he didn't. LaRussa, Mr. Screamy, didn't push the matter either. That's pretty much the end of the story.

I knew the RULE would not mean anything to the majority on this board and I am not surprised in the least bit. I am not assuming anything. Did you not see savafan's pictures of him? How much more evidence do you need? What kind of investigation was done? :laugh:

Why LaRussa did not push the issue is something we will never know. Probably he found out after the fact when he washed it off. What could he do at this point? Nothing. The league can do something, but they won't.

Heath
10-23-2006, 06:49 PM
It does not matter if the substance was removed or not, the rule states what it states and you can not go around it, but in this case since it is the WS and even though we learned from History like the black sox scandal (not exactly like this), but in today's game it is SUBJECTIVE now to determine if he really meant to do it or not to break a rule?

Just people who think that people's word is nothing and that there "always someone out to get you" conspiracy theories.

This isn't the X-Files. It's Major Freakin' League Baseball. It's a game for crying out loud.

If you want to find conspiracies, check out Roswell, NM or try to get an explaination on your IRS Form 1040.

Don't go Art Bell on us.

cReds1
10-23-2006, 06:51 PM
Exactly, vatican. The only way Rogers gets penalized is if something is found, which didn't occur.

Move on.

I guess the pictures tell nothing now? Remind me if I ever do get into trouble that the majority of you do not get on my jury, i am a dead man walking for sure. :laugh:

GIK
10-23-2006, 06:55 PM
Here's a possible explanation from Gammons, cR (and my last post on this subject):

"The Cardinals were not complaining because they have pitchers that also use substances to get some grip, to hold the ball. It's a lot different than sandpaper. Nobody seems to think this is a big deal."

cReds1
10-23-2006, 06:55 PM
Just people who think that people's word is nothing and that there "always someone out to get you" conspiracy theories.

This isn't the X-Files. It's Major Freakin' League Baseball. It's a game for crying out loud.

If you want to find conspiracies, check out Roswell, NM or try to get an explaination on your IRS Form 1040.

Don't go Art Bell on us.

I don't know what your problem is, but a RULE is a RULE. You are telling me every RULE is subjective now? How about STEROIDS use? Is this SUBJECTIVE too now.

Commish: Hey Mr. Bonds, Do you do STEROIDS?

Bonds: Yes I do.

Commish: Don't worry about it, just let it wear off and then we will do a drug test on you and then you can go back on it after the test is done and oh btw, we will inform you way ahead of time before the test is given.

Bonds: that is cool

Commish: i know what the RULE is on this substance, but we can work around those things in certatin situations. No big deal, but if a person like betting Pete wants back in the game, faget about it. RULES ARE RULES you know!

Hoosier Red
10-23-2006, 07:13 PM
What seriously Creds?
That last post made no sense whatsoever.

Heath
10-23-2006, 07:40 PM
Here's a possible explanation from Gammons, cR (and my last post on this subject):

"The Cardinals were not complaining because they have pitchers that also use substances to get some grip, to hold the ball. It's a lot different than sandpaper. Nobody seems to think this is a big deal."

Well, Mr. Gammons' employer does.

And so does cReds.

Heath
10-23-2006, 07:45 PM
I don't know what your problem is, but a RULE is a RULE. You are telling me every RULE is subjective now? How about STEROIDS use? Is this SUBJECTIVE too now.

I just drove over on I-70 yesterday. The "rule" says that the speed limit is 65 MPH.

I drove 80. I'm sorry. I broke the "rule".

There was no state highway trooper who "caught" me.

Is the rule subjective? No. Should I have been caught? Yes. Was I caught? No. Wow, lucky me. Shouldn't be driving that fast anyway.

Kenny Rogers (in someone's eyes) just drove 80 in a 65. But, he didn't get caught.

Lucky guy.

savafan
10-23-2006, 11:59 PM
Rogers also had "The Dirt" on his hand in a July game against the White Sox:

http://i.a.cnn.net./si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0610/gallery.mlb.rogers/images/rogers10.jpg

vaticanplum
10-24-2006, 12:20 AM
Wow, all these games with "the dirt" on his hand...seems to me that if something was really going on here, someone would have picked up on it at some point before the World Series needed ratings.

I'm not sure if this makes me a cynic or overly trusting.

cReds1
10-24-2006, 01:24 AM
I just drove over on I-70 yesterday. The "rule" says that the speed limit is 65 MPH.

I drove 80. I'm sorry. I broke the "rule".

There was no state highway trooper who "caught" me.

Is the rule subjective? No. Should I have been caught? Yes. Was I caught? No. Wow, lucky me. Shouldn't be driving that fast anyway.

Kenny Rogers (in someone's eyes) just drove 80 in a 65. But, he didn't get caught.

Lucky guy.

Kenny Rogers did get caught, but LaRussa never pressed the issue. He did say, it was more than just DIRT unlike what Rogers is stating. I am glad you agree that RULES can be broken because when a Reds player does it or breaks another rule and then is suspended or fined then I can't wait to hear your answer when this happens.

Sooner or later you gamble, you will get caught and Kenny got caught. How many pictures does Savafan have to provide to convince you he is CHEATING the game of Baseball? He is a CHEAT, PERIOD!

Jpup
10-24-2006, 06:34 AM
I find it amusing how many will bash steroid users into the ground, but this is no big deal to them.

Rogers should be suspended for the rest of the series IMO. Other than that, I am not sure what can be done. He would get an appeal so nothing could really be done probably, but it should be.


For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6):
(a) The pitcher shall be ejected immediately from the game and shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

(b) Have on his person, or in his possession, any foreign substance. For such infraction of this section (b) the penalty shall be immediate ejection from the game. In addition, the pitcher shall be suspended automatically for 10 games.

There is little difference in this and steriods IMO. Cheating is cheating is cheating.

mth123
10-24-2006, 07:03 AM
I think that steroids are bashed because of the health risks. If player A does steroids, it pressures Player B to do them also to keep up. In that way Player A is imposing a health risk on Player B. Kind of the second hand smoke issue of the sports world. Top that off with the example it sets on kids and they are a big health problem (that costs all of us money BTW).

If it was just performance and numbers, I'm not sure that it would be as big an issue. Players and teams have always cheated to get an advantage. Corked Bats, greenies, doctored balls, spies in the seats with binoculars stealing signs, distracting stuff on the uniform, it goes on and on. None of these (except greenies) cause you to have health problems (unless you are doctoring the ball with something radioactive I guess).

Yesterday I was listening to XM and Doug Harvey (retired long time umpire) was on and he said, "As long as there are pitchers there will be guys who cheat."

If anyone thinks the numbers are pure and comparable across time its naive anyway IMO.

GAC
10-24-2006, 08:56 AM
Maybe that photographer he nailed last year is finally getting the last word! :lol:

registerthis
10-24-2006, 09:20 AM
Maybe that photographer he nailed last year is finally getting the last word! :lol:

Hah! :D

traderumor
10-24-2006, 09:23 AM
I think Rogers just has a problem with sloppy wiping :D

Heath
10-24-2006, 10:23 AM
Kenny Rogers did get caught, but LaRussa never pressed the issue. He did say, it was more than just DIRT unlike what Rogers is stating. I am glad you agree that RULES can be broken because when a Reds player does it or breaks another rule and then is suspended or fined then I can't wait to hear your answer when this happens.

Sooner or later you gamble, you will get caught and Kenny got caught. How many pictures does Savafan have to provide to convince you he is CHEATING the game of Baseball? He is a CHEAT, PERIOD!

If you are pointing out Kenny Rogers, than you could probably point out hundreds of other baseball pitchers who need to "cheat".

You know why LaRussa doesn't press the issue? Because his own players are going to be doing the same thing and he doesn't want them to get caught.

If a Reds player get caught with 'roids or an emery board or whatever - it's their own fault.

You seem to be pretty shallow when you point your fingers at just one player. Do you have money on the Cards or something?

GullyFoyle
10-24-2006, 11:22 AM
This is what Todd Jones said last year:


Last year, Rogers' teammate Todd Jones defended the use of pine tar in a column for the Sporting News. "Pine tar is no big deal to players," Jones wrote. "Everybody uses pine tar. … It's almost a basic part of the game. Sandpaper and Vaseline, however, are looked at as cheating."

Per Slate (http://www.slate.com/id/2152037/?nav=tap3)

It seems obvious everyone knew what it was but decided not to make a big deal about it... (including the umps)... but then they all came up with different stories to cover their butts, without saying "oh yeah its pine tar"

GullyFoyle
10-24-2006, 01:41 PM
Another interesting read on dirtgate:


KENNY ROGERS: ADDENDUM:
Because my memory extends roughly as far as my last drink, I was not aware of a historic parallel to the Rogers event. Jonathan Cohn--senior editor (so please don't write a bunch of bad comments about my writing)--reminded me of the 1988 NLCS between the Mets and Dodgers. Game 3, Dodgers closer, Jay Howell, comes in to pitch during a rainy, cold night at Shea. He apparently noticeably kept pulling on the strings of his glove between pitches. As the count reaches 3-2 on a Mets hitter, manager Davey Johnson calls time and asks for the glove to be inspected.

Here's where things get interesting. Howell clearly had pine tar on the glove. Neither the umpire, the pitcher, or even the Mets Keith Hernandez felt that he was "cheating." But the umpire, upon discovering the foreign substance told Lasorda that although he "hated to do it" he had no choice but to throw Howell out. The ump was none too pleased about it because he felt Howell wasn't using it to his advantage, just as an alternative to the resin bag.

Score was 4-3. Dodgers get so rattled that they promptly give up five eighth inning runs and lose 8-4 to give the Mets a 2-1 series lead.

Although some of the Mets contended that Howell had used it in game 1 because they noticed he suddenly developed a curveball he didn't have during the regular season, Hernandez didn't concur, siding with Howell's claim that it was just for grip, that there was no difference between it and the resin bag, and that it was all a big misunderstanding.

Davey Johnson clearly used it to his advantage--if he thought he'd noticed it as early as game 1, why wait until there's a full count on the batter in a 4-3 game?

As for the automatic ten game suspension, NL president (and eventually MLB commissioner), Bart Giamatti only suspended Howell for three games because he felt that although it was a technical violation of the rules, it was not cheating.

Which brings us to the $64,000 question. Given what we saw and know about Rogers, if he did have pine tar on his hands was he cheating or was it all just a big misunderstanding?

--Chris McIntosh


Found on The New Republic Blog (http://www.tnr.com/blog/count)

Reds Fanatic
10-24-2006, 07:01 PM
Now the Cardinals are accusing Rogers of scuffing the baseball on Sunday night.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15402869/


The St. Louis Cardinals said they believe Detroit Tigers pitcher Kenny Rogers was scuffing the ball during Game 2 on Sunday, aside from the controversy about the smudge on the left-hander's pitching hand, USA Today reported Tuesday.

"It was so blatant," Cardinals hitting coach Hal McRae told USA TODAY. "What was so strange about it was how obvious it was, in the World Series. It's a shame a guy would cheat in a World Series game. It hurts the integrity of the game.

"He wasn't just cheating by using pine tar; he was scuffing balls, too. We collected about five or six balls that are scuffed. He had to be using his fingernails or something."

Rogers pitched eight scoreless innings to help tie the series at one game apiece, and has not allowed a run in 23 straight innings during the playoffs. He denied after the game that he had used pine tar or any other illegal substance, maintaining that it must have been a combination of mud, dirt, rosin and spit.

"Maybe it looked like pine tar; I don't know," said Rogers, 41. "I'm skeptical of a lot of stuff (in baseball), too, but I'm not skeptical of my ability to pitch. My pitching isn't that dominant. ... I just know how to pitch."

Meanwhile, the San Francisco Chronicle said that Rogers appeared to have a similar smudge at the base of his thumb in his previous playoff victories over the Yankees and A's. He has made three starts this postseason.

"He pitched his butt off," A's third baseman Eric Chavez told The Chronicle. "I don't know enough about scuffing baseballs to know how much of an effect that it had. But, honestly, looking back, it had a little to do with it."

On Oct. 13, Rogers allowed two singles in 7 1/3 innings in the 3-0 victory over the A's that gave the Tigers a 3 games-to-1 lead in the ALCS.

"We didn't know anything was going on. We just kind of gave the guy credit, though it is well apparent he had something on his hands during all games," Chavez also told the Chronicle. "With the rules of the game, that is cheating, but logic tells us it's not cheating unless you get caught, and now it's too late."

On Monday, Cardinals manager Tony La Russa said he knew that Rogers had something on his hand in two previous playoffs starts, after watching video during their scouting reports.

"Well, 90 percent of the concentration on those tapes is trying to get an idea of how this guy is so successful and what we have to do to beat him," La Russa said. "But there was one shot that the cameras caught that you notice. It looks a little different

OnBaseMachine
10-24-2006, 08:30 PM
The Cardinals organization, from their 'roided up players to their whiny fans, just makes me sick. All they do is whine, whine, and whine some more. They sound like a bunch of damn crybabies.

savafan
10-25-2006, 03:33 AM
The Cardinals organization, from their 'roided up players to their whiny fans, just makes me sick. All they do is whine, whine, and whine some more. They sound like a bunch of damn crybabies.

Wow, I'm not sure that was warranted. The Cardinals have some of the best fans in baseball, and there hasn't been any proof that any of their players have used PEDs.

GAC
10-25-2006, 08:40 AM
Wow, I'm not sure that was warranted. The Cardinals have some of the best fans in baseball, and there hasn't been any proof that any of their players have used PEDs.

If the Cards end up winning the series he'll be seen on Channel 9 with police trying to coax him down off the bridge. :lol:

OnBaseMachine
10-25-2006, 07:33 PM
Wow, I'm not sure that was warranted. The Cardinals have some of the best fans in baseball, and there hasn't been any proof that any of their players have used PEDs.

No, no, you got that all wrong; The Cards fans are THE BEST fans in baseball, not some of the best as you said. Just ask Cardiinals fans.

cReds1
10-25-2006, 08:50 PM
If you are pointing out Kenny Rogers, than you could probably point out hundreds of other baseball pitchers who need to "cheat".

You know why LaRussa doesn't press the issue? Because his own players are going to be doing the same thing and he doesn't want them to get caught.

If a Reds player get caught with 'roids or an emery board or whatever - it's their own fault.

You seem to be pretty shallow when you point your fingers at just one player. Do you have money on the Cards or something?

I highly doubt this is the reason on why LaRussa never pressed the issue. Hey, if someone breaks the rules no matter whom it is than they need to face the consequences. OK, since this is being swept under the rug, then what happens the next time someone gets caught and then a UMP throws the player out? I am sure many more players will try to get by with these things more. They need to set an example instead of brushing it under the rug or basically just enforce the rules.

No, I do not have any money on the Cards, but if they win it all than this will make our Division look that much better and we can say we beat up on each other and that is why our record is what it is. Well, I don't know if we did beat up on each other, but we can use it. It will at least sound good. :D

GAC
10-26-2006, 07:30 AM
No, no, you got that all wrong; The Cards fans are THE BEST fans in baseball, not some of the best as you said. Just ask Cardiinals fans.

Ask alot of other people outside of St Louis and they will concur, about the fans and the organization.

They are 4th in MLB with an average attendance per game of 42,500.

They drew almost 3.5 Mil fans this year, and over the last 6 years average yearly attendance was 3.1 Mil.

That says something about their fans.

As far as I'm concerned they are no different than any other basbeball fan. They support their team, take pride in them, and yes, can be somewhat "rabid"..... but winning on a consistent basis will do that to fans.

Ask owner Castellini and his partners the Williams family what they feel about the Cardinal organization. ;)

OnBaseMachine
10-26-2006, 07:57 PM
Cards fans may have been fourth in attendance, but they're first in arrogance and whining.

GAC
10-27-2006, 09:04 AM
Cards fans may have been fourth in attendance, but they're first in arrogance and whining.

pot meet kettle! :lol:

M2
10-27-2006, 11:41 AM
Kenny Rogers is a seasoned pro. He's goes to the mound loaded with pine tar, vaseline, an emory board and a clear, slick substance discovered by a secret NASA probe to the moons of Saturn.

Matt700wlw
10-27-2006, 11:45 AM
No, no, you got that all wrong; The Cards fans are THE BEST fans in baseball, not some of the best as you said. Just ask Cardiinals fans.

I thought that title was for Indians fans?

Oh wait...that's only when they're rarely good, nevermind. :D

NJReds
10-27-2006, 11:52 AM
The St. Louis Cardinals said they believe Detroit Tigers pitcher Kenny Rogers was scuffing the ball during Game 2 on Sunday, aside from the controversy about the smudge on the left-hander's pitching hand, USA Today reported Tuesday.

"It was so blatant," Cardinals hitting coach Hal McRae told USA TODAY. "What was so strange about it was how obvious it was, in the World Series. It's a shame a guy would cheat in a World Series game. It hurts the integrity of the game.

"He wasn't just cheating by using pine tar; he was scuffing balls, too. We collected about five or six balls that are scuffed. He had to be using his fingernails or something."


Then blame your boss, Hal. "The Genius" LaRussa "knew" something was up and ignored it...why? He could've had the umpire check Rogers hand.

Another question. Why does the manager have to ask an umpire to check a pitcher. If the ump sees something odd, why can't he just go up to the pitcher himself?