Bengals vs. Browns, Round 2

[BuckWoody]

Time to break up the love-fest among the Buckeye fans, send them to their respective corners of the state, and have them come out fighting. Who you got this Sunday and why?

The Bengals seem to have it working finally on offense while they have completely lost the ability to play defense at all. I'm not sure how far you can go by letting a team march right down the field and then plan on getting the pick in the end zone. They've worked that plan to perfection the last two weeks (of course they left off the "pick in the end zone" part vs. San Diego, but let's not nitpick ;) ). Will we have another 58-48 shootout like we did in '04?

The weather is supposed to be 52 and cloudy so that doesn't sound like much of a factor. Not sure what the turf is like right now up in Cleveland but I assume it will not be a fast track. I'll be a homer and say Bengals 31 Browns 27 with Rudi and Winslow Jr. both having big games.

Good luck Brownies. Go Bengals!

p.s. - One very cool item of note; the game will be in HD. :thumbup:

[max venable]

Bengals. Even though they currently have no D...Cleveland has no O. Bengals will easily outscore the Brownies.

[Heath]

Bengals. Even though they currently have no D...Cleveland has no O. Bengals will easily outscore the Brownies.

Hold on here, my fellow Buckeye fan. Cleveland's defense has actually been on the improvement the last few weeks. They've actually been the backbone on the team. The problem is that last week's meltdown against the Steelers really zapped a lot from them.

I think Cleveland wins - 24-21. Here's why. That 52 & sunny you see? It'll be 35 and spitting snow on Sunday. It will ground the air games. Plus, Reuben Droughns might be out. You might want to get a load of this Jason Wright guy. The Bengals usually have problems against the unknown. Plus the Brownies D really wants to rebound from last week.

[BuckWoody]

Oops. I finally added an actual poll so we can vote....

[macro]

Cleveland has no O.

If they just run eleven guys out there, they'll score against the Bengals. :(

This team has been up and down all season. They've pulled some nice surprises by dominating at Kansas City and New Orleans and winning at Pittsburgh. But they've also been guilty of sleepwalking at Tampa Bay, getting embarassed at home by New England, and suffering a collapse of historic proportions against San Diego. Bottom line is that I have no idea what to expect from them from week to week, but I wisely keep my expectations low.

[MWM]

Teams with no offense and really good defenses are the types of teams the Bengals match up well with. They can score on just about anyone, but they can't stop a decent offense. On paper, this one should be a W for the Bengals, but with this season's team you just never know.

[BuckWoody]

If they just run eleven guys out there, they'll score against the Bengals. :(

That'd be a lot funnier if it wasn't so true. :cry:

[Joseph]

I think Cleveland wins - 24-21. Here's why. That 52 & sunny you see? It'll be 35 and spitting snow on Sunday. It will ground the air games. Plus, Reuben Droughns might be out. You might want to get a load of this Jason Wright guy. The Bengals usually have problems against the unknown. Plus the Brownies D really wants to rebound from last week.

Spoken like a true homer. I say that with all respect, I'm the same way about my teams. Every season I believe the Reds, Bengals, Bulls, Blackhawks, and Wildcats can all win with a little break here or there.

[GAC]

Hold on here, my fellow Buckeye fan. Cleveland's defense has actually been on the improvement the last few weeks. They've actually been the backbone on the team. The problem is that last week's meltdown against the Steelers really zapped a lot from them.

I think Cleveland wins - 24-21. Here's why. That 52 & sunny you see? It'll be 35 and spitting snow on Sunday. It will ground the air games. Plus, Reuben Droughns might be out. You might want to get a load of this Jason Wright guy. The Bengals usually have problems against the unknown. Plus the Brownies D really wants to rebound from last week.

You're a loyal fan brother. I'm sitting here at my keyboard crying with emotional pride. :lol:

The Cleveland Browns have been in alot of their games this year, and have allowed a few to simply slip away. The Ravens and Pitt games still hurt. The Bears game, and the first meeting with the Bengals, were probably two games where we weren't in them.

Our defense, which has risen to the occassion, can only be expected to do so much when spending so much time on the field. But I am surprised at our D's play with our starting corners out.

I think both of these teams are better than their respective records indicate. Too many injuries at key positions.

The fact that the Bengal's defense is struggling will help Frye and the offense. But as you say... how much help is there going to be with the possibility of Droughns not playing, and both Edwards and Winslow banged up and listed as questionable?


Teams with no offense and really good defenses are the types of teams the Bengals match up well with. They can score on just about anyone, but they can't stop a decent offense.

Yep.

The Browns will not even come close to winning if they try to get into a shoot-out (aka the SD game) with the Bengals. They are going to have to establish a balanced attack and keep the time of possession close, giving their defense some rest, to have a shot.

Firing Carthon has helped to move this team in the right direction. ;)

[traderumor]

The Browns will have to stop Rudi, which they have not stopped a Bengals running back since Boobie Clark, I think. Of course, that is the recipe for victory every week--over 20 carries and 100+ yards means Bengals victory. Throw in another big day from a suddenly silent Chad and I think we are looking at another Bengals victory.

BTW, the D has been able to stop bad offenses like TB and the Brownies earlier in the year, but they are still awfully banged up. It's gonna take turnovers yet again, I'm sure.

I'll take the Bengals 28-17.

[paintmered]

My prediction, 63-59 Bengals.

I'm not sure what the line is for this one, but take the over ;)

[max venable]

My prediction, 63-59 Bengals.

I'm not sure what the line is for this one, but take the over ;)

We had one like that a couple years ago, didn't we?

[TeamSelig]

I'm not sure why, but I hate the Browns. They don't have any players that I like. Nobody sticks out with amazing talent &/or ability, I just have no need for the Browns. Didn't help that they loss to the Steelers last week, which half way puts them back into it.

[GAC]

I'm not sure why, but I hate the Browns. They don't have any players that I like. Nobody sticks out with amazing talent &/or ability

They have some playmakers up there. Just no offensive line. Once Savage fixes that, and I think he will, you'll hate us even more. But divisional rivalries are good and alot of fun. ;)

[RedFanAlways1966]

But divisional rivalries are good and alot of fun.

Absolutely! I am a lifelong Bengals diehard. I have been heard to say that I hate the Browns more than once in my lifetime (esp. during the Bernie years).

However... the Bernie vs. Boomer years were great times. I was in college at Ohio University (mid-80's) and had some of the best times at parties with a 50-50 Bengals-Browns crowd during those games. Great fun and great games between two good teams.

When Jerk Modell took that team away I was bummed. It ruined the fun and twice-a-year games. I really missed playing the Brownies during that 3-year span. Even when our teams were not very good it was still fun to play that in-state game twice a year. It was one of the only highlights of 15 long years for this Bengals fan.

This time... Bengals 27 - Brownies 17.

[BuckWoody]

I have great memories of past Boomer vs. Bernie clashes as well.

While in college my fraternity house was pretty evenly split between Browns and Bengals fans and we would always fight over which game would be on the big screen in the TV room. We finally decided on a steadfast rule; we'd monitor both games and the team scoring first would get control of the big TV with the other team's fans left to their own devices. Seems like I watched a lot of Bengals games during those years on the 20 inch TV in my room. :( When the Browns and Bengals played each other is was a genuine Battle Royale!

Another "fond" memory from those days is once coming back from a weekend at home to find that all my good Browns fan buddies had taken a Bernie poster and shellacked it to the outside of my door. They did a fabulous job because there was no way to tear it off short of taking down the door and sanding it away. Needless to say, I had Bernie on my door for the rest of the year. If I had a dollar for every time I had to explain that I wasn't a huge Browns fan, I'd have graduated a wealthy man.

Good times. :thumbup:

[GAC]

http://www.footballcardgallery.com/pics/1972-Topps/96.jpg

VS

http://www.footballcardgallery.com/pics/1973-Topps/34.jpg

[BoydsOfSummer]

Ahhh yes...the glorious Mike Phipps era.

Browns win by a scant 1 point. Woof!

[Ron Madden]

From Lance McAlister's blog.

The Browns will wear the 1957-1959 uniforms that Jim Brown wore in his first three seasons in Cleveland.

[Matt700wlw]

Those Browns went to Baltimore :D

[Ron Madden]

Those Browns went to Baltimore :D

Wow!!!
Thanks for the heads up. :thumbup:

You guys at WLW are really on top of everything. ;)

[BuckWoody]

Wow!!!
Thanks for the heads up. :thumbup:

You guys at WLW are really on top of everything. ;)
They are the Nation's Station...it's their job to know stuff like that. :)

Some extree info I've read. This includes the old Browns and the new Browns...just so there is no confusion. ;) Each team has won 33 games. The Browns are 20-12 at home against the Bengals.
Marvin Lewis is 5-2 against the Browns. Crennel is 0-3 against the Bengals.
Bengals lead, 4-3, in new Browns Stadium and have won 4 in a row in the series.

[WMR]

WHO DEY!! Bengals in a rout.

[Ron Madden]

Bengals 31

Browns 20

[Yachtzee]

I have great memories of past Boomer vs. Bernie clashes as well.

While in college my fraternity house was pretty evenly split between Browns and Bengals fans and we would always fight over which game would be on the big screen in the TV room. We finally decided on a steadfast rule; we'd monitor both games and the team scoring first would get control of the big TV with the other team's fans left to their own devices. Seems like I watched a lot of Bengals games during those years on the 20 inch TV in my room. :( When the Browns and Bengals played each other is was a genuine Battle Royale!

Another "fond" memory from those days is once coming back from a weekend at home to find that all my good Browns fan buddies had taken a Bernie poster and shellacked it to the outside of my door. They did a fabulous job because there was no way to tear it off short of taking down the door and sanding it away. Needless to say, I had Bernie on my door for the rest of the year. If I had a dollar for every time I had to explain that I wasn't a huge Browns fan, I'd have graduated a wealthy man.

Good times. :thumbup:

You could have taken the opportunity to give "Bernie" some cosmetic surgery to teach those guys a lesson. Some ideas might have included:

Replacing Bernie's hair with Cha-Cha-Cha-Chia hair
Cement shoes for his concrete feet
A handbag to accompany his side-arm motion
A Steelers jersey
The ever-popular black eye, handlebar mustache, monocle, and/or other standard enhancements people use to deface photographs.

[BuckWoody]

You could have taken the opportunity to give "Bernie" some cosmetic surgery to teach those guys a lesson. Some ideas might have included:

Replacing Bernie's hair with Cha-Cha-Cha-Chia hair
Cement shoes for his concrete feet
A handbag to accompany his side-arm motion
A Steelers jersey
The ever-popular black eye, handlebar mustache, monocle, and/or other standard enhancements people use to deface photographs.
What I did end up doing was putting a cartoon quote bubble up by Bernie's head with a new quote from Bernie every week. Being a college student at the time, with maturity not being a strong point yet, none of the quotes are reprintable here. :evil:

[Playadlc]

I think this is going to be a great game. The Bengals simply aren't good enough to go into Cleveland and blow them out.

I see the Bengals winning 21-20, but I would not be surprised to see the Browns win.

[Chip R]

CLE takes it all the way back on the kickoff but it gets called back because of a penalty. First play from scrimmage CLE is trapped behind the line but they still manage to get 4 yards because of poor tackling by the Bengals. The Bengals better hope they get a lot of turnovers.

[MrCinatit]

So....we have about six minutes left in the 1st quarter, and already both teams have burned up 3 of their timeouts.
Talk about spectacular clock management.

[Dom Heffner]

I think this is going to be a great game. The Bengals simply aren't good enough to go into Cleveland and blow them out.


Yeah, that could never happen.

Cincy put up over 40 against San Diego. I think they can handle the Browns defense(whether or not they can stop them from scoring remains to be seen.).

[Playadlc]

Fantastic performance by the Bengals so far.

17-0, and getting the ball in the 2nd half.

[Chip R]

Browns panicked too early. They got down right away and thought they had to catch up right away and abandoned the run when they were moving it fairly well on the Bengals. They don't have the passing attack to play catch up and now they are in serious trouble.

[Playadlc]

30-0.

This is about as dominating a performance on both sides of the ball I have seen in a Bengals game in a long while.

[Falls City Beer]

Good Lord. If you're getting shut down by this defense, you really ought to commit mass suicide. This Browns team is one for the Ages of Suck.

[Chip R]

Good Lord. If you're getting shut down by this defense, you really ought to commit mass suicide. This Browns team is one for the Ages of Suck.


Agreed. Looks like Braylon Edwards is maturing as an NFL WR. He just had his first altercation with his QB. Isn't it precious to see them grow up before your very eyes? TO and Keyshawn Johnson, et. al. are so very proud now.

[Falls City Beer]

But it looks like the Bengals are going to have to run the table if they want to get into the playoffs.

NO ONE'S catching the Ravens.

Talk about dominating; it makes you wonder how good that team could have been with a real quarterback all these years.

[MrCinatit]

Good Lord. If you're getting shut down by this defense, you really ought to commit mass suicide. This Browns team is one for the Ages of Suck.

Jim Croce would call them the Bad, Bad Cleveland Browns.
Steven Sondhelm would tell us to Send In The Browns.
This Browns team is like watching the Bengals 10 years ago.

[max venable]

But it looks like the Bengals are going to have to run the table if they want to get into the playoffs.

NO ONE'S catching the Ravens.

Talk about dominating; it makes you wonder how good that team could have been with a real quarterback all these years.

As bad as the Bengals D has been this year...with a couple of breaks (at TB, at BAL, the ATL game)...actually just one of those makes them 7-4 and really in the thick of things. And the truth is, they've had an opportunity to win every game with the exceptoin of NE.

They're not going to run the table. But at least they're not the Browns.

[OldRightHander]

I think this is going to be a great game. The Bengals simply aren't good enough to go into Cleveland and blow them out.



You want to amend that?

[WMR]

Chad Johnson -- #1 Receiver in NFL HISTORY for receiving yards over a 3 game stretch

[Falls City Beer]

They're not going to run the table. But at least they're not the Browns.


That's some cold comfort.

[WMR]

We should not see Carson Palmer on the field again today.

[Playadlc]

You want to amend that?

Yeah, I really did think this game was going to be close. I had no idea the Bengals D would come out and play this way.

It would be pretty nice if they could hold on here for the shutout. The Bengals haven't had one of those since 89.

[OldRightHander]

One of the most welcome things to see on the field with 5 minutes left is Wright at QB.

[OldRightHander]

Yeah, I really did think this game was going to be close. I had no idea the Bengals D could come out and play this way.

It would be pretty nice if they could hold on here for the shutout. The Bengals haven't had one of those since 89.

Against Cleveland that time too. That would be nice.

[OldRightHander]

Well, did that just seal the shutout?

[Playadlc]

Bengals 30
Browns 0

[Reds Fanatic]

Great game by the Bengals. Shutout by the defense with 5 turnovers and 4 sacks.

[Playadlc]

Ravens defense today against Pittsburgh.

0 points allowed, 1 defensive TD, 9 sacks, 2 INT's, 1 fumble rec.

[guttle11]

If not for one bad Palmer pass, this would have been the perfect game.

[traderumor]

The conundrum of this game is to decide whether Cleveland's O is that bad or if the D played inspired. I'd lean toward the former, but is Cleveland's line that bad to let the Bengals pitiful front 7 dominate them so badly?

[traderumor]

On the Bengals side, I don't know that I have ever seen a slower player than Sam Adams. I know he has had a bad knee all year, but watching him attempt to chase Fry once was high comedy. I have to think Peko would be a better option the rest of the way.

[BoydsOfSummer]

Good grief. I didn't think it possible for a team to make that bengirl defense look capable. By golly the Browns did. That might be the worst effort from my boys all year. And when you're 3-7, that's saying alot.

Hey,Braylon, Frye has been sacked a blubillion times and is running for self-preservation on every damn play; see him calling out his OL or anybody else? Way to bring some extra negative vibe to an already sucky situation.

[Playadlc]

Good grief. I didn't think it possible for a team to make that bengirl defense look capable. By golly the Browns did. That might be the worst effort from my boys all year. And when you're 3-7, that's saying alot.

Hey,Braylon, Frye has been sacked a blubillion times and is running for self-preservation on every damn play; see him calling out his OL or anybody else? Way to bring some extra negative vibe to an already sucky situation.

I think this Edwards thing is being overblown. It looked to me like Edwards was explaining to Droughns what happened on the pervious play when he was called for off. pass. interference, and he was using Frye as a prop.

Now, I don't know what else happened in the game, but I don't think Edwards was going off on Frye on the one incident everyone seems to be talking about. Just using him to explain a situation to a teammate.

[traderumor]

Frye was bringing back some vivid memories of Jon Kitna by just throwing the ball up for grabs instead of eating it.

[Playadlc]

In bad news, Chris Perry broke his leg today.

Man, has he had some bad luck.

[traderumor]

I think this Edwards thing is being overblown. It looked to me like Edwards was explaining to Droughns what happened on the pervious play when he was called for off. pass. interference, and he was using Frye as a prop.

Now, I don't know what else happened in the game, but I don't think Edwards was going off on Frye on the one incident everyone seems to be talking about. Just using him to explain a situation to a teammate.The PI was called on eighty-something according to the ref, although the announcer preliminarily called Edwards. Plus, your explanation doesn't make any sense because Braylon went up to apologize later on the field.

[traderumor]

In bad news, Chris Perry broke his leg today.

Man, has he had some bad luck.
Bummer, that was the first play he got on the field, I think.

[Playadlc]

The PI was called on eighty-something according to the ref, although the announcer preliminarily called Edwards. Plus, your explanation doesn't make any sense because Braylon went up to apologize later on the field.

How do you know he went to apologize? The announcers said that he did, but it didn't look like an apology to me. No one could possibly know what Edwards said to Frye.

[GAC]

"Thank you sir, can I have another!!!" :lol:

The Browns offensive line is just that..... offensive!

Frye has been sacked 43 times (2nd in the NFL).

You just can't leave your defense on the field all the time and expected anything good.

Besides being injury riddled, this defense is just plain tired.

Your running game is pretty much null and void with Droughns having a total of 2 rushes for 4 yds.

But when the Cribbs 102 yd kickoff return was voided with the holding call to start the game, I knew it was gonna be another lonnnnnng day. ;)

[GAC]

Also....

why oh why, when there is under 3 minutes left till halftime, you're down 17-0 and on the opponents 30 yd line, does a 3-7 team with nothing to basically lose, try a 48 yd FG and not go for the 2 yds needed for the 1st down?

[traderumor]

How do you know he went to apologize? The announcers said that he did, but it didn't look like an apology to me. No one could possibly know what Edwards said to Frye.That's funny considering your wild interpretation of the sideline festivities.

[Playadlc]

That's funny considering your wild interpretation of the sideline festivities.

Yeah, I just watched it again and it does look like Edwards was yelling at Frye.

When I first saw it it looked like he was just talking to Droughns, but after a second look there is no question that he was talking to Frye as well.

[traderumor]

Yeah, I just watched it again and it does look like Edwards was yelling at Frye.

When I first saw it it looked like he was just talking to Droughns, but after a second look there is no question that he was talking to Frye as well.

Yea, Droughns about had to take him down to get him away. Just frustration due to an anemic offense.

[RedFanAlways1966]

I wonder if Braylan is trying his best to get traded away? He makes public comments, goes at his QB on the sidelines, etc. Perhaps doing his best T.O. imitation (selfish) thinking he can get somewhere else and win.

BTW... Charlie Frye should have gone after Braylan in week 1. Down 19-14 to the Saints and moving the ball (past the 50-yd. line). Braylan gets hit with a 10-yd. pass right between his numbers... oops, Braylan doesn't hold on and the Saints pick-off the ball. Game over.

I am not a Browns fan or a Michigan fan, but I am always willing to get players their due. Braylan Edwards gets zero respect from me. Not until he grows up.

[Heath]

I'm in favor of the excecution of the offense.

Yuck.

[Spring~Fields]

That Cleveland team is so bad they should not be allowed to have “Browns” as a part of their name and it should be stripped from them. They are a benchmark for a black mark on Ohio football.

[registerthis]

I wonder if Braylan is trying his best to get traded away? He makes public comments, goes at his QB on the sidelines, etc.

Next thing you know, he'll make some comment about preferring to flip burgers than continue to play in Cleveland...

[max venable]

Next thing you know, he'll make some comment about preferring to flip burgers than continue to play in Cleveland...

Yeah...but he won't be wanting a large Frye with those burgers. :D

[TeamSelig]

Is there a team in the NFL that is worse than the Browns?

[Chip R]

Is there a team in the NFL that is worse than the Browns?

Yesterday? Probably not. The Browns are probably a better team than they showed yesterday - they'd almost have to be. I'd say they are better than OAK.

[Matt700wlw]

That was fun!

[Spring~Fields]

Is there a team in the NFL that is worse than the Browns?


You made me look and there really are, can you believe that!

The NFL should have what they call the NFL probationary league, with Cleveland topping the list.

[traderumor]

Is there a team in the NFL that is worse than the Browns?Raiders is a good pick, although I'd have to say Detroit is probably the worst team that I've seen play yet this year. They, like the Arizona Cardinals, are one of those organizations that just continues to confound every benefit the league gives them to be competitive. High draft picks, easier schedule, revenue sharing. Against all odds, nobody seems to be able to hook up with those organizations that know what they're doing. The Browns are quickly joining those ranks. Thankfully, by a modern day marvel, the Bengals escaped that slough of dispond.

[Hoosier Red]

Arizona and Detroit are different levels of futility.
The Cardinals really did a lot of things that made sense. They tried to build around their big play offense, threw money at a RB to make it all work, and thought they could continue what progress they had made last year.

The Lions are as close to 90's era Bengals as you get. If they weren't so stupid I'd call them unlucky. If they weren't so unlucky, I'd call them stupid.
It's the perfect storm.

[GAC]

Is there a team in the NFL that is worse than the Browns?

Uh.... yes. Take a good hard look at the standings. Teams like Detroit, Oakland, Arizona are all 2-9.

And we're the best of all the other 3-8 teams out there. :lol:

The Bengals beat us pretty handling both times we have played them. But we've let 4 games, which we were either winning or in, slip through our fingers in the 4th quarter and/or late. There's no excuse for it, and shows this team has problems; but that we also aren't that far off.

Fix the offensive line, which is the "heartbeat" of the team, and you'll see a whole different team.

[GAC]

I wonder if Braylan is trying his best to get traded away? He makes public comments, goes at his QB on the sidelines, etc. Perhaps doing his best T.O. imitation (selfish) thinking he can get somewhere else and win.

Gee, who else does that sound like? :lol:

Nothing more then frustration. He'll come back and apologize.

I like what Winslow said, in defense of Frye..... the poor kid is back there running for his life. Plays don't have time to develop, and Charlie sure doesn't have time to find receivers, primary and/or secondary.

[Spring~Fields]

And we're the best of all the other 3-8 teams out there. :lol:



Time to jump ship Greg before they rightfully rename them the Cleveland Titanics!:fineprint

:bowrofl:

[traderumor]

Gee, who else does that sound like? :lol:

Nothing more then frustration. He'll come back and apologize.

I like what Winslow said, in defense of Frye..... the poor kid is back there running for his life. Plays don't have time to develop, and Charlie sure doesn't have time to find receivers, primary and/or secondary.I noticed Sunday that Winslow, even before the game got out of hand, was not doing the routine--running his mouth, pointing out that he made a first down, etc. Maybe he's starting to focus on playing the game and helping his team get better instead of his "soldya" routine.

Also, in a more general sense, I've been noticing that celebrations are falling by the wayside since the restrictions on such things were made more stringent this year. Even Chad has just been going out there and doing his job. I would imagine his coach is quietly reminding him that he has put together 3 historic weeks of football since his latests outburst and as the quiet, workman like Chad.

[BoydsOfSummer]

I'd like to point out to the Browns bashers in the thread; Browns still have more playoff appearances in the last 15 years than the girls. And they didn't field a team for three of those years.

[Cedric]

I'd like to point out to the Browns bashers in the thread; Browns still have more playoff appearances in the last 15 years than the girls. And they didn't field a team for three of those years.

And the Bengals have actually played for something called a Super Bowl. It's always about history with the Browns fans :)

[BoydsOfSummer]

Those Super Bowls were in '88 and '81. Further back in history than my 15 year time frame. :p:

Shall we start counting actual championships? :D

[max venable]

I'd like to point out to the Browns bashers in the thread; Browns still have more playoff appearances in the last 15 years than the girls. And they didn't field a team for three of those years.

W.H.Y.D.F.M.L.?

[Yachtzee]

Well, lets see...

The Browns haven't won a league championship since before the Bengals came into existence. Only one came after Paul Brown left.

Since the merger, they have 0 AFC championships and 7 division championships, but none since 1989.

The Bengals have had 2 AFC championships and 6 division championships, 2 coming after the Browns last won the division.

Of course all this "who has more championships" talk between Bengals and Browns fans does nothing other than inviting some Steelers wienie to jump in and start rubbing it in. We Ohio fans have all had our ups and downs.

[TeamSelig]

I'm not basing the W-L record on the worse team in the NFL. Maybe at the end of the season.

Anyways, Oakland is worse? They nearly beat San Diego (kinda got srewed a little)... They at least have Randy Moss (not playing worth a crap but still Randy Moss), Jerry Porter (injured), and Warren Sapp. A little excitement there? I think so anyway.

How about Detroit? I'll agree they are horrible, but hey they have Jon Kitna! Okay, so I'm joking about that. But they have Williams' as WR and Shaun Rogers.

Cardinals? Worse record, but better team IMO. They just have a curse or something. But they have Matt Leinart, Edge, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and of course Neil Rackers.

Actually the Browns are better than the Lions, maybe the Raiders, but not the Cardinals. As for the teams with the same record, I don't see how you can say they are the best of the bunch...

Tampa Bay??? A rookie QB maybe, but they have Cadillac, Galloway, Alstott, Barber & Brooks. Houston has Lundy, and the #1 draft pick, but thats about it.

Seriously, the Browns have no talent. Edwards maybe but it appears that he is a Mini-TO. Winslow isn't bad but injury prone.

When you get shut out by the worst defense in the NFL you can't really say much for them. I was half kidding about them being the worst team in the NFL.

I'll change it to the Browns being one of the worst teams in the NFL. Bottom 3 or 4. That bad. Don't care what happened 15 years ago either. Yuck. The Browns don't even have good uniforms. They should change their name to the Cleveland Yawns, cause I'm falling asleep just by talking crap about them. Jeez.

[Spring~Fields]

I'd like to point out to the Browns bashers in the thread; Browns still have more playoff appearances in the last 15 years than the girls. And they didn't field a team for three of those years.

The Cleveland Browns back in the days of Paul Brown, Jim Brown, Lou Groza, Paul Warfield, Leroy Kelly, Frank Ryan, (remember him? I do, I was a big fan of his) etc. up through the Blanton Collier days were very good, Art Model the one that fired Paul Brown moved that team out of state long ago, those teams of long ago were defendable. But this franchise is a whole different story, they really are not the same franchise.

Did GAC pay you to say that!!

[max venable]

But this franchise is a whole different story, they really are not the same franchise.


Exactly...all those championships and division titles went with Modell to Baltimore. The current franchise has done nothing. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

[GAC]

Do we all really need to start this silly, ridiculous, and pointless argument? :rolleyes:

Both of our teams have sucked for quite some time.

I'm glad to see the Bengals organization coming out of it.

I hope we're next. ;)

[max venable]

Hey...it was all started by a Browns fan.

[Heath]

Hey...it was all started by a Browns fan.

Then a Bengal fan nicely took the bait. :D

SI called the Browns one of the best dressed teams in sports. Check it out on their photo gallery.

I hate the numbers on the helmet - but the gray facemasks are cool. I hope they retro to all-white on Christmas eve (1950 Uniform)

The Browns aren't very good right now. But the Bengals just got good and there's a lot of harping going on in this state.

Good.

[Heath]

Exactly...all those championships and division titles went with Modell to Baltimore. The current franchise has done nothing. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

Not according to official NFL history. The Ravens are actually listed as an expansion team. In the Media Guide, the Ravens have no claim or mention to any of the Browns history.

[BuckWoody]

Did anyone get this game in HD? Everything I had read going into the game said it was going to be in HD and then come gametime it wasn't, at least not for me. :(

That certainly was an unexpected but quite enjoyable outcome; at least for me it was. ;) The Bengals need to carry that defensive momentum into Thursday night's game bigtime.

[BuckWoody]

The current Browns have just as much to do with the old Browns as the current Texans have to do with the old Oilers. That is just a simple fact. -BUT- Leaving the colors and records and history behind in Cleveland was part of the price Modell paid to move his team to Baltimore and was a nice bone (pun intended) to throw to the fans who, frankly, deserved it. I have no problem with it...I can carry my dislike for the original Browns franchise right over to the new one and not miss a beat. ;)

I have a lot of respect for most of the Browns fans on here, GAC especially. But you other Brownie fans should understand that we Bengals guys take just as much pride and have just as much love for our team as you do for yours even if our franchise has almost 20 fewer seasons in the league. I'm no young pup but I have absolutely no recollection of the NFL without the Bengals in it. My love of the team is life-long, just as you Browns fans affection is for your team.

It all comes down to respect. Don't come into a thread about this week's game and start with the "bengirls" stuff and the "we've been to more playoffs/won a bunch of championships" stuff and not expect to get some thrown right back at you...especially when yours turned out to be the lesser of the two teams on the day. If you're teasing or kidding around, that's one thing, but don't fire away without thinking that you'll get some back in return.

Sorry if I've fanned the flames any more than they already were, that was not my intent. I'll close this post like I closed the first one of the thread: Good luck Brownies. Go Bengals!

[traderumor]

Not according to official NFL history. The Ravens are actually listed as an expansion team. In the Media Guide, the Ravens have no claim or mention to any of the Browns history.So, the NFL chooses to ignore that expansion teams do not take the existing players from an existing team. I wonder, do they do the same for the Baltimore/Indy Colts?

[Spring~Fields]

Hey...it was all started by a Browns fan.

No, it was one of those dog gone, no good Buckeye fans that started it. ;)

[BoydsOfSummer]

Sorry if I've fanned the flames any more than they already were, that was not my intent. I'll close this post like I closed the first one of the thread: Good luck Brownies. Go Bengals!


It all comes down to respect. Don't come into a thread about this week's game and start with the "bengirls" stuff and the "we've been to more playoffs/won a bunch of championships" stuff and not expect to get some thrown right back at you...especially when yours turned out to be the lesser of the two teams on the day. If you're teasing or kidding around, that's one thing, but don't fire away without thinking that you'll get some back in return.

Believe me it's all good natured ribbing. I just couldn't stand by and let the Browns bashing i was seeing go unchallenged. One winning season in the last couple decades sure has made some 'gal fans cocky.

[Spring~Fields]

Believe me it's all good natured ribbing.

Yes, :) Kidding and teasing is a part of being a sports fan. I was a Browns fans most of my life, being a Reds fan and former Browns fan I sometimes wonder if I like pain or something. :help:

Options are laugh or cry with those two organizations at this time.

[Heath]

So, the NFL chooses to ignore that expansion teams do not take the existing players from an existing team. I wonder, do they do the same for the Baltimore/Indy Colts?

That was actually addressed by someone earlier. When the Browns moved to Baltimore, all the players left, but nothing else did (i.e. Claim to team history, colors, etc.). That was the price that Modell paid to leave Cleveland.

The Baltimore/Indianapolis story is different. The Colts left, and Baltimore did not stop them. Irsay took off and the Colts went to Indiana.

In 1995 - I believe the NFL fumbled. If there was a team to be placed in Baltimore, the NFL should have paid the Irsays to send the Colts history, colors, etc. to Baltimore. The Cleveland players would have went to Baltimore. This is all preface to the fact that there is nothing that Jim Irsay loves more than some cash in the freezer. A few dollars to the Irsays, and BAM! The Colts are in Baltimore, Cleveland keeps the Browns, and the Indianapolis team gets a new name & identity.

The whole thing about this Cleveland to Baltimore thing is that Mike Brown, if he didn't get a new stadium in 1996, he was planning on moving the Bengals to Cleveland.

Now, how interesting would that have been!

[max venable]

No, it was one of those dog gone, no good Buckeye fans that started it. ;)

Actually, I think Chris Perry started it before the OSU-Michigan game. I'm blamin' him anyway.

[GAC]

I think some of you need to read the agreement that was reached with Modell/Baltimore/NFL with the city of Cleveland. ;)

The Brown's history and tradition stayed in Cleveland.

Why should any of this matter to Cincinnati Bengals fans anyway?

Some of you are acting rather childish over this issue.

[Matt700wlw]

I'm focused on the Ravens now.

The Bengals, yet again, handled the mistake by the lake twice in one season. That's what....5 straight wins? I've lost count :p:

[Redsland]

Some of you are acting rather childish over this issue.
YOU ARE!


:D

[GAC]

Seriously, the Browns have no talent. Edwards maybe but it appears that he is a Mini-TO. Winslow isn't bad but injury prone.

More absurdity on your part. ;)

Check out where Winslow is ranked as a TE this year in the NFL. ;)

And no, he is not injury prone. He was just stupid doing stunts on a new motorcycle. Since his return, he's been pretty durable.



They should change their name to the Cleveland Yawns, cause I'm falling asleep just by talking crap about them. Jeez.

And that is about all you have done.

I'm not addressing all Bengal fans.... because I don't come on here and talk crap about the Bengals (and their fans).... but simply Bengal fans like you who like to talk crap....

How easily you forget your team had the worst record of any NFL team between 1991 and 2002.

You clinched your first winning season LAST YEAR since then, and now you're getting on your high horse as if none of the previous ever existed.

And yet during that time you had some talented players on your team. Just a terrible owner who had no concept on how to build a winning franchise.

It took a Marvin Lewis to help put it all together.

We have talent in Cleveland.

Or biggest problem is our offensive line. Just like it was for you guys for years.

Your O-line is the "heartbeat" of your team.

Did you happen to notice that when you guys were going through you r losing streak earlier this year that it was due to the fact your O-line wasn't affording Palmer the protection he needed, and that plays were not being able to develop, even with good receivers, like they should?

The Cleveland Browns are not that far off.

Now whether this coach is the answer is yet to be seen.

But quit talking crap, because all it does is stir things up and accomplishes very little.

I feel somewhat embarrassed and ashamed of saying what I said above.

But I just got tired of hearing your unfactual crap.

[TeamSelig]

When did I say ANYTHING about the Bengals being good? My Browns rant came from them being SHUT OUT by the worst D in the NFL.

If you want to argue that the Browns are the third worst team in the NFL then go for it. What kind of argument is "you used to suck in the 90s" lol Okay, so what is your point? Have fun living in the past.

You should probably calm down man, and not take this stuff so serious. I'm mostly kidding about talking crap anyways.

I still think the Browns are a little more than a coach away from even being a .500 team.

I apologize though if I got under your skin.

[Spring~Fields]

More absurdity on your part. ;)

Check out where Winslow is ranked as a TE this year in the NFL. ;)

And no, he is not injury prone. He was just stupid doing stunts on a new motorcycle. Since his return, he's been pretty durable.




And that is about all you have done.

I'm not addressing all Bengal fans.... because I don't come on here and talk crap about the Bengals (and their fans).... but simply Bengal fans like you who like to talk crap....

How easily you forget your team had the worst record of any NFL team between 1991 and 2002.

You clinched your first winning season LAST YEAR since then, and now you're getting on your high horse as if none of the previous ever existed.

And yet during that time you had some talented players on your team. Just a terrible owner who had no concept on how to build a winning franchise.

It took a Marvin Lewis to help put it all together.

We have talent in Cleveland.

Or biggest problem is our offensive line. Just like it was for you guys for years.

Your O-line is the "heartbeat" of your team.

Did you happen to notice that when you guys were going through you r losing streak earlier this year that it was due to the fact your O-line wasn't affording Palmer the protection he needed, and that plays were not being able to develop, even with good receivers, like they should?

The Cleveland Browns are not that far off.

Now whether this coach is the answer is yet to be seen.

But quit talking crap, because all it does is stir things up and accomplishes very little.

I feel somewhat embarrassed and ashamed of saying what I said above.

But I just got tired of hearing your unfactual crap.

Goodness sakes GAC,

Your starting to sound like a true Michigan or Notre Dame fan :evil:

Just because the city of Cleveland made a bad deal with Model, they should have let him have the history etc, and kept the players, it wasn't like Paul Brown did not already steal their colors.

[ochre]

The Browns moved to Cincinnati in 1967, fully becoming the modern browns in 1970 with the merger of the AFL and NFL. For the period between 1962 and 1967 an expansion franchise, that was allowed to maintain the Browns intellectual property and records, took over in Cleveland. This expansion franchise moved to Baltimore in 1996. In 1999 another expansion franchise was stood up in Cleveland, with the lineage and honors that rightfully belonged to the Cincinnati franchise being passed on to this latest expansion team.

That's my version of it all anyway.... :)

[Spring~Fields]

I am not touching that one. :)

Anyway, GAC knows that I still believe in Santa Clause, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny, and that I was just kidding him, it is not my fault that …Cleveland…..!

[remdog]

The Browns moved to Cincinnati in 1967, fully becoming the modern browns in 1970 with the merger of the AFL and NFL. For the period between 1962 and 1967 an expansion franchise, that was allowed to maintain the Browns intellectual property and records, took over in Cleveland. This expansion franchise moved to Baltimore in 1996. In 1999 another expansion franchise was stood up in Cleveland, with the lineage and honors that rightfully belonged to the Cincinnati franchise being passed on to this latest expansion team.

That's my version of it all anyway.... :)

Growing up in Cleveland in the '50's & '60's I loved the Browns. But, for me, like Ochre, that all changed when Art Modell fired Paul Brown. When PB founded the Bengals I rooted for them from the beginning. That was the "real" Brown(s). At the time I was still in Cleveland, not knowing that I would move to Cincinnati a few years later.

Whether you are a Bengals fan or a Browns fan you have to be angry about what Art Modell did to that team and that city. No fans, no city deserves that kind of treatment.

I will always despise Modell.

I may be a Bengals fan (even through all of their tough years) but the city and fans of Cleveland deserve better than the fate that has befallen them. I hope, down the road somewhere, that these two teams both become powerhouses that fight it out every year to be THE team in the AFC. I want to see the rest of the league envy the football played in Ohio.

Rem

[GAC]

You should probably calm down man, and not take this stuff so serious. I'm mostly kidding about talking crap anyways.


I apologize though if I got under your skin.

First off.... you have no idea what my emotional state was when I typed my response.

I was calm and cool as a cucumber, not angry. ;)

Just felt your statements on the Browns needed a response.

Secondly....I just think it's interesting that you got two discomboobulated franchises whose recent history of performance (10-15 years) hasn't been anything to brag about.

So neither should be coming on here talking crap about the other. :lol:

I understand it may all be done in just good natured fun.

So you're saying it would be OK for me then to start "smack talking" about the Bengals?

I won't do that, and never have, because I respect many Bengal fans on here.

[GAC]

Growing up in Cleveland in the '50's & '60's I loved the Browns. But, for me, like Ochre, that all changed when Art Modell fired Paul Brown.

Believe me, I'm no Modell defender. One good thing that came out of all of it was that we got Modell out of Cleveland.

But in that "situation" with Paul Brown, one needs to really look behind the scenes at was going on when Modell initially took over. And IMHO, Brown deserved to be fired in 1962.

Yes, he was a great coach. One of the greatest. But he was losing it towards the end of his tenure in Cleveland.

The only problem was that Paul didn't like working with anyone. Especially the owner(s).

Brown did it all, and wanted to do it all because he was an obsessive-compulsive control freak down to the very last detail.

The previous owner group allowed him to do his thing too because they not only respected him, but were also scared of the guy. :lol:

Modell came in and wanted to work with Brown. He thought they could restore the Browns and make a great tandem. Art told Brown - you run the team, do your job as coach, and I'll handle the budget and marketing of the club.

That upset Brown who wasn't use to that. Owners were owners... never to be seen or heard from according to Paul Brown.

And he decided to do the "powerplay" thing that was intended to embarrass Modell and usurp his authority as owner.

And Paul Brown ended up losing. It wasn't something Modell wanted or planned to do.

Ask any of those former Brown players what they thought of Paul Brown the last 2-3 years he was with the team. They saw changes in the man, and a form of paranoia taking over that caused many to begin to really despise him and not want to play for him.

Change was inevitable.

Anyone that wants to read a really good book on this subject needs to get Terry Pluto's "When All The World Was Browns Town".

[Heath]

Believe me, I'm no Modell defender. One good thing that came out of all of it was that we got Modell out of Cleveland.

But in that "situation" with Paul Brown, one needs to really look behind the scenes at was going on when Modell initially took over. And IMHO, Brown deserved to be fired in 1962.

Yes, he was a great coach. One of the greatest. But he was losing it towards the end of his tenure in Cleveland.

The only problem was that Paul didn't like working with anyone. Especially the owner(s).

Brown did it all, and wanted to do it all because he was an obsessive-compulsive control freak down to the very last detail.

The previous owner group allowed him to do his thing too because they not only respected him, but were also scared of the guy. :lol:

Modell came in and wanted to work with Brown. He thought they could restore the Browns and make a great tandem. Art told Brown - you run the team, do your job as coach, and I'll handle the budget and marketing of the club.

That upset Brown who wasn't use to that. Owners were owners... never to be seen or heard from according to Paul Brown.

And he decided to do the "powerplay" thing that was intended to embarrass Modell and usurp his authority as owner.

And Paul Brown ended up losing. It wasn't something Modell wanted or planned to do.

Ask any of those former Brown players what they thought of Paul Brown the last 2-3 years he was with the team. They saw changes in the man, and a form of paranoia taking over that caused many to begin to really despise him and not want to play for him.

Change was inevitable.

Anyone that wants to read a really good book on this subject needs to get Terry Pluto's "When All The World Was Browns Town".

Gee, I wonder where I could get a copy of that book :D

Ironically, the Browns won 31 out of 42 games the first two years after Brown left and Blanton Collier took over.

Someday from the smoldering ashes the Browns will rise again.

[Yachtzee]

Anyone that wants to read a really good book on this subject needs to get Terry Pluto's "When All The World Was Browns Town".

Actually, having lived in the Akron area of and on since 1979, I've had plenty of opportunity to read Pluto's work over the years. He's a long time sports columnist for the Akron Beacon Journal. His writing is rife with his own personal biases and conspiracy theories. That's fine if you're a newspaper columnist, but it's not so great if you're a historian. I haven't read "When All The World Was Browns Town," but I did read "The Curse of Rocky Colavito," which read more like his own personal screed about how the Indians ownership has inflicted pain and suffering upon him. He wasn't shy about expressing his own views of Gabe Paul and Phil Seghi, or putting forth conspiracy theories about how Indians' managment was trying to screw the fans, almost like portraying "Major League" as fact. To be fair, the full title is "The Curse of Rocky Colavito: A Loving Look at a Thirty-Year Slump," so it's less a history than a memoir. I suspect the "Browns Town" book is the same way, but I could be wrong.

Of course when the Cleveland Browns v. 2.0 started turning south, I figured it was only a matter of time before Pluto came out with a book ripping the NFL and the new Browns management for not putting a winner in Cleveland. So I was not surprised when this book came out. "False Start: How The New Browns Were Set Up To Fail" (http://www.amazon.com/False-Start-Browns-Were-Fail/dp/1886228884)

[GAC]

Gee, I wonder where I could get a copy of that book :D

:lol:

And thanks for that book buddy (as well as the T-shirt). Every Browns fan should have that book in their library. ;)

I just sent rfs62 a copy that I found on the 'net


Ironically, the Browns won 31 out of 42 games the first two years after Brown left and Blanton Collier took over.

And since you read the book, you know why that happened. The players wanted to win for Collier more then anything else once Brown was gone.

He turned a 7-6-1 team into a 10-4 team in '63, and we all know what happened in '64. ;)

Why IMHO? Player input into the game, which Brown forbid.

[remdog]

Gee, could it have happened because Paul Brown laid the groundwork for it? :p:

BTW, PB also created the most successful expansion franchise in the history of the league at that time. Common thread there, possibly. :)

Rem