Reds Trade For Conine

[lo ryder]

According to Marc's blog, Reds have traded two minor leaguers for Jeff Conine. More info to come.

Maybe it's the start of more moves to come.

[dabvu2498]

Almost 41... scrappiness jokes ensue

[NJReds]

Zippity-do-dah...a 40-yr-old 1st baseman w/a .700 OPS.

[edabbs44]

40 year old platoon guy who will make $2 million this year.

Stupendous. WK, you have outdone yourself once again.

[Dracodave]

If the minor leaguers happen to be Votto or Bailey, EFFING kill me.

Something doesnt seem right with this trade.:bang:

[cincy09]

and the hits keep a comin......

[forfreelin04]

I love it how everyone begs and begs for a move then when it happens their automatically disgusted with it

[NJReds]

I love it how everyone begs and begs for a move then when it happens their automatically disgusted with it

Why do the Reds need a 40-yr-old slap hitting 1st baseman. Yes, people want moves. But they want moves that will improve the team.

Why trade for a guy that is on the far side of effective, when there are at least two FA options that are much, much better (Wilson, Craig; Perez, Eduardo).

[Joseph]

I love it how everyone begs and begs for a move then when it happens their automatically disgusted with it

Everyone is begging for a move to IMPROVE the team.

We seriously are becoming the Giants of the East.

[Johnny Footstool]

I love it how everyone begs and begs for a move then when it happens their automatically disgusted with it

Everyone begs for *good* moves. They are disgusted with *bad* moves.

[Dracodave]

I love it how everyone begs and begs for a move then when it happens their automatically disgusted with it

Why trade for more crap when you can get a upgrade? Craig Wilson is the only plausable upgrade for next year. Conine is not.:help:

[Tom Servo]

Ah, we all knew it was going to happen eventually...

[forfreelin04]

Why do the Reds need a 40-yr-old slap hitting 1st baseman. Yes, people want moves. But they want moves that will improve the team.

Why trade for a guy that is on the far side of effective, when there are at least two FA options that are much, much better (Wilson, Craig; Perez, Eduardo).

Your problems here are well noted but you don't know if this is pinch hitting help instead of a potential backup first basemen.

[Falls City Beer]

I'm telling you, these el cheapo lowball placeholder moves scream "rebuild." I just hope it's a real one, and not a half-ass job.

[Joseph]

Javon Moran is one of the MiL going back to the Phils.

[timmario66]

Lance is saying Brad Key (I think) and Javon Moran as the minor leaguers.

[forfreelin04]

It just screamed pinch hitter to me...... but I'll be the first to eat crow if it's not

[Always Red]

I love it how everyone begs and begs for a move then when it happens their automatically disgusted with it

Most of us, ok, some of us, are more discriminating than to be happy with "any move."

Conine's a decent spare part to have on the bench; he can play 1B, 3B or OF. He's not any better against LH pitching (than against RH). I hope he's not going to be the 1B against LH'ers, but I think he is.

All in all, a lesser player than Aurila has been the last 2 years, if he's the "Aurilia replacement."

[dabvu2498]

Javon Moran is one of the MiL going back to the Phils.

Interesting that the Phils wanted him back. Or maybe not. :dunno:

[RichRed]

A guy who hits for a decent average, doesn't strike out much and is so old that he was once Bob Boone's teammate.

Color me not shocked.

[Edd Roush]

Well, I came to Redszone today looking to see if Krivsky was going to make a move, and for all of them for him to make... I really am dissappointed. He didn't trade much away, but I would have liked for him to do something different. We ought to have enough veterans next year, I don't think that's necessarily a good thing, though.

[edabbs44]

The amount of money that will be spent on Weathers, Conine, Lohse, Cormier, Stanton and Gonzalez is amazing.

Throw in Griffey and Milton and it's embarassing.

[Always Red]

If this keeps up, the Reds are going to be right up there with the Giants for oldest team in the NL...

[edabbs44]

If this keeps up, the Reds are going to be right up there with the Giants for oldest team in the NL...

I think they passed them a while ago.

[RichRed]

Let's raise a toast to Mr. Conine, the newest -- AND oldest -- member of the Cincinnati Reds.

[CTA513]

Update from Marcs blog:


UPDATE: The Reds sent infielder Brad Key and outfielder Javon Moran to the Phillies for Conine. Brendan Harris was designated for assignment to make room on the 40-man roster

[George Anderson]

If this keeps up, the Reds are going to be right up there with the Giants for oldest team in the NL...

Can signing Rocky Balboa be far behind??

[Dracodave]

Let's raise a toast to Mr. Conine, the newest -- AND oldest -- member of the Cincinnati Reds.

Maybe he can play Centerfield due to "Seniority" over Griffey? :laugh:

[dfs]

It's pretty hard to put a happy face on this one.

Not that key and Moran figured to ever see time on the 25 roster.

It's just hard to see how using a roster spot on Jeff Conine is a good idea.

Something will have to open up a spot on the 40 man roster, so that may be more talent pissed away.

I guess he's not going to be good enough that they'll be tempted to give him a full time corner outfield job, so that makes it more likely that they'll move junior.

I guess they can say he's an allstar that won a couple of world series.

I guess he'll be "happy" in the role he's given and won't create a stink.

Tough to paint this one as a positive.

[NJReds]

Something will have to open up a spot on the 40 man roster, so that may be more talent pissed away.


That "something" was Brendan Harris (of "the trade" fame), who was DFA'd.

[WrongVerb]

Anyone remember '89, when the Reds picked up Trillo, Youngblood, Tekulve, and an old Ken Griffey and Dave Collins?

Scary part is the Reds don't quite have the core of young, good players (Davis, Larkin, O'Neill, Sabo) that the '89 team did, so a WS Championship in '08 probably isn't in the offing.

[Team Clark]

I'm ok with it. As long as he can take his walker to 1B.

[Will M]

1. we gave up some two no name 'prospects'

2. we all know we needed a RH hitting 1B. Conine is a plus because he can also play the outfield

3. he is cheaper than Craig Wilson and only has one year left on his contract. We all hope Votto is ready soon so signing someone like Wilson to a fat contract would be a bad move

4. I believe plays better defense than Wilson

5. I wonder what is the deal with Wilson? Krisky keeps things close to the vest so we will never know. Did Krisky not like his offense? defense? did Wilson want too much money? did he not want to play for the Reds?

6. Wayne has the guts to waive Harris and not keep him on the roster to 'save face' regarding 'The Trade'

7. Net result: Conine replaces Aurillia. Costs less for 2007. No committment beyond. Two no name prospects given up and two high level draft picks received.

[camisadelgolf]

Do the Reds still get the draft picks if Conine retires instead of signing with another team? Personally, I'm not even sure I would've been willing to trade Brendan Harris for Conine, let alone Moran, Key, and DFAing Harris. However, I really like that Krivsky didn't break the bank to get Wilson, and if the Reds really do get two high draft picks out of it, I think it's a good move. Thank you, Will M, for putting it all in perspective.

[Rex Argos]

I was looking through his stats from last season, and he had an OPS of 1.655 against Milton last year. Feel free to add your own punchline.

[Johnny Footstool]

Conine plays the outfield like Dmitri Young "plays" third base -- poorly.

[Johnny Footstool]

I was looking through his stats from last season, and he had an OPS of 1.655 against Milton last year. Feel free to add your own punchline.

That's 0.234 below league average.

[Team Clark]

That's 0.234 below league average.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: How is THAT possible? Not enough AB's probably...

[Spring~Fields]

40 year old platoon guy who will make $2 million this year.

Stupendous. WK, you have outdone yourself once again.

You guys actually going to pay to see these types of players play in 07 ?

Castellini raises ticket prices to see his performers and this is what he offers the fans?

Moeller, Hamilton, Livingston, Crosby, Conine Who will be the Reds MVP !

[Gallen5862]

This is not a bad move. I hope that we can trade Harris or he clears waivers and we can keep him in the minors.
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...2/d21/c1765845
Reds acquire Conine from Phillies
12/21/2006 3:06 PM ET
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

CINCINNATI -- In pursuit of a right-handed hitter this offseason, the Reds acquired veteran Jeff Conine from the Phillies for two Minor Leaguers on Thursday.
Last season, Conine batted .268 with 10 home runs and 66 RBIs for the Orioles and Phillies. He was dealt from Baltimore to Philadelphia on Aug. 27.

A 16-year veteran, and two-time All-Star in 1994-95, Conine is a .286 career hitter. He was a member of the Marlins' World Series championship teams in 1997 and 2003.

Cincinnati wanted a versatile player that could play first base and Conine would fit that bill. He's played 935 games at first base and 928 games in the outfield over the course of his career.

To make room on the Reds' 40-man roster, infielder Brendan Harris was designated for assignment.

Going to Philadelphia are infielder Brad Key and outfielder Javon Moran. Key spent last season with Class A Dayton and Sarasota, while Moran spent time in Sarasota and at Double-A Chattanooga.

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[Kc61]

1. we gave up some two no name 'prospects'

2. we all know we needed a RH hitting 1B. Conine is a plus because he can also play the outfield

3. he is cheaper than Craig Wilson and only has one year left on his contract. We all hope Votto is ready soon so signing someone like Wilson to a fat contract would be a bad move

4. I believe plays better defense than Wilson

5. I wonder what is the deal with Wilson? Krisky keeps things close to the vest so we will never know. Did Krisky not like his offense? defense? did Wilson want too much money? did he not want to play for the Reds?

6. Wayne has the guts to waive Harris and not keep him on the roster to 'save face' regarding 'The Trade'

7. Net result: Conine replaces Aurillia. Costs less for 2007. No committment beyond. Two no name prospects given up and two high level draft picks received.

Excellent post. The Reds needed a platoon right handed hitter. This is not the place to drop a ton of money or enter a long-term contract. Conine is the type of guy you acquire to fill that role.

It should leave money for a decent pitching addition. That is where you spend the money. Hopefully, now that the Reds have awakened, they will get one.

If the Reds decided they didn't want Harris or Moran anymore, that shows me that they are evaluating their talent and making judgments. Fine with me. Moran was, I think, eligible for Rule V and wasn't selected. Let's not exaggerate his market value.

[Spring~Fields]

I'm ok with it. As long as he can take his walker to 1B.

:laugh: :laugh:

Better hope that Geritol isn't on the MLB banned substance list. :eek:

[deltachi8]

And the lines for season tickets get longer today I am sure.

[Joseph]

And the lines for season tickets get longer today I am sure.

I bet they doubled easily.

Of course multiplying by 0 always yields the same result....

[Spring~Fields]

And the lines for season tickets get longer today I am sure.

I think that Castellini is counting on Chicago, St. Louis, Houston and Milwaukee providing the entertainment this year at the GABP. While he and some of the investors recover some of their initial investment.

[dsmith421]

The amount of money that will be spent on Weathers, Conine, Lohse, Cormier, Stanton and Gonzalez is amazing.

WE CAN'T AFFORD FREE AGENTS!!!

WAYNE IS DOING HIS BEST!!!

What a joke.

[Heath]

I was looking through his stats from last season, and he had an OPS of 1.655 against Milton last year. Feel free to add your own punchline.

I OPS'd 1.655 against Milton too last year.

But he still sucks on Triple Play Baseball 2007.

[dsmith421]

Excellent post. The Reds needed a platoon right handed hitter. This is not the place to drop a ton of money or enter a long-term contract. Conine is the type of guy you acquire to fill that role.


$2M for a 41-year-old with a sub-700 OPS that can't field any other position on the field with any competence?

That's an absolutely appalling move. It's an insult to the fans.

[Spring~Fields]

Just out of curiosity how many of you have these players Moeller, Crosby, Livingston, Hamilton Stanton, Weathers and Conine on your fantasy teams.?

[edabbs44]

WE CAN'T AFFORD FREE AGENTS!!!

WAYNE IS DOING HIS BEST!!!

What a joke.

Then don't spend the money. Why drop millions on these guys? Use the savings on the draft and international signings.

[edabbs44]

Just out of curiosity how many of you have these players Moeller, Crosby, Livingston, Hamilton Stanton, Weathers and Conine on your fantasy teams.?

Now or in '98?:)

[Gallen5862]

I wonder if we offer Harris who we dfaed to the devil rays for the rights to Hamilton. That way they get a player and we would get to keep Hamilton.

[Spring~Fields]

Now or in '98?:)

98 ? That is so last century !:)

One thing for sure is that Castellini has them all on his fantasy team :devil:

[dsmith421]

Then don't spend the money. Why drop millions on these guys? Use the savings on the draft and international signings.

I was being sarcastic. I hate hearing Reds fans justify this idiocy with appeals to our "poverty" and the ridiculous state of the market when we're plowing a third of our payroll into players who are virtually worthless.

And, for the record, I agree with you about the international scouting.

[RichRed]

Other players Jeff Conine has had the pleasure of sharing a roster with:

Frank White
Juan Berenguer
Charlie Hough
Willie Wilson

No truth to the rumor that he was part of the famed double play combo, Tinker to Evers to Conine.

[redsmetz]

I was being sarcastic. I hate hearing Reds fans justify this idiocy with appeals to our "poverty" and the ridiculous state of the market when we're plowing a third of our payroll into players who are virtually worthless.

And, for the record, I agree with you about the international scouting.

I haven't pleaded "poverty" - I think this is an astute move for THIS year in getting that right handed bat for 1st base and who can play the corner outfield positions, DH (now with inter-league play). Does this put us in the World Series? Good Lord, no! But it fills a need we've had and everyone's been screaming for. Over on the Phillies board, they're lamenting the loss of Conine.

It's another piece and it's not a bad one. And you're overstating how much of the payroll is going into the winter pick ups - it's highly suspect to think that we're approaching between 20 and 25 Million on those players (and that's figuring the payroll between 60 and 75 million).

The truth is, around here, there's no pleasing some people. Oh well. Time to go pick up some pizza for dinner.

[Always Red]

Narron, on acquiring Conine (from Marc's blog):


"I’m excited about it. He’s a guy that we know has had an outstanding career so far. He’s very talented, can do a lot of things with the bat, play multiple positions. I’ve admired him and respected him a long time, just by the way he goes about his business. He plays the game the right way and can bring a lot of leadership to our club."

;)

[Falls City Beer]

Narron, on acquiring Conine (from Marc's blog):



;)

You got to wonder if Marc's not throwin' us all a bone by dropping that quote in there from time to time.

:devil:

[Spring~Fields]

"I’m excited about it. He’s a guy that we know has had an outstanding career so far. He’s very talented, can do a lot of things with the bat, play multiple positions. I’ve admired him and respected him a long time, just by the way he goes about his business. He plays the game the right way and can bring a lot of leadership to our club."

I am starting to think that Krivsky has a string attached to Narrons backside and just pulls it when he wants this response.

Jerry and his multiple positions, it would be nice if he had players that could play one position outstanding.

[Always Red]

I hate hearing Reds fans justify this idiocy with appeals to our "poverty" and the ridiculous state of the market when we're plowing a third of our payroll into players who are virtually worthless.


To keep things in perspective (if there is such a thing when discussing MLB salaries), I was over on the SI baseball site earlier and noticed this: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/12/20/salary.figures.ap/index.html

...which says the average MLB salary now is $2.7 million a year.

The reality is that these bench guys that Kriv is plowing all this payroll into are average guys who are making average money for what they do. For the most part, they'd be making the same kind of money somewhere else.

Except for Chad Moeller, I'm still scratching my head about Chad.

I'm not excited about acquiring Conine, but I don't have a problem with it; he's a guy you know you can depend on, who doesn't get hurt very often, can hit a little bit. Steady, dependable, and apparently a big fan of Alex Gonzalez.

[Always Red]

You got to wonder if Marc's not throwin' us all a bone by dropping that quote in there from time to time.

:devil:
could be; you'd know it for sure if he used the adjective scrappy:laugh:

[dsmith421]

I haven't pleaded "poverty" - I think this is an astute move for THIS year in getting that right handed bat for 1st base and who can play the corner outfield positions, DH (now with inter-league play).

Astute? How? The guy OPSed 700 last year and makes $2M. This "power bat" hit 10 HR in almost 500 ABs last year and has hit 20 HR in a complete season one time since 1997. Put him in a corner outfield position next to Griffey (and, God help us, Dunn) and you've got easily the worst defensive outfield in the Major Leagues.

I don't ask that every move be ingenious. Sometimes you have to tread water, sometimes you take a step back to take two forward. I just expect a minimum level of competence. Don't piss on my feet and tell me it's raining.

[Ron Madden]

The truth is, around here, there's no pleasing some people. Oh well. Time to go pick up some pizza for dinner.

This may be half true.

It's also about half true that some people around here would defend ANY move made by Wayne. (Chad Moeller) ;)

[Superdude]

"I’m excited about it. He’s a guy that we know has had an outstanding career so far.

You tell 'em Jerry! With today's medical technology, 40 years old is just getting started. Anyway, the biggest loss here is Harris in my opinion. Thought he might be a solid player, but with the addition of Gonzalez, there really wasn't an opening for him. Conine should be a solid bat off the bench and hopefully provide extra OF insurance so Wayne can deal Denorfia for a pitcher. I'm sure he'll be starting in right field on opening day though. :bang:

[terminator]

...which says the average MLB salary now is $2.7 million a year.

The reality is that these bench guys that Kriv is plowing all this payroll into are average guys who are making average money for what they do. For the most part, they'd be making the same kind of money somewhere else.

That article doesn't specifically say, but it looks to be the mean rather than the median. Which would tells us that for every KGJ making $12MM there are five guys making $500k. The point being that median is lower than the mean, which tells us that these $2MM backups are probably making more than half of the players out there.

I won't judge Krivsky's moves individually, but bringing in roster-filler players like Moeller, Stanton, Conine, Crosby, etc. is a clear sign to me that we are not going to compete in 2007.

[WMR]

The amount of money that will be spent on Weathers, Conine, Lohse, Cormier, Stanton and Gonzalez is amazing.

Throw in Griffey and Milton and it's embarassing.

The money wasted on players this year could have amounted to a very serious offer for Zito. It's staggering to start adding up the cash that Wayne has FLUNG IN THE AIR for detritus.

[edabbs44]

Phillies sign Werth for $800k.

Reds trade 2 minor leaguers to Philly for Conine, who makes $2 million.

Who did better, Cincy or Philly?

[tomred]

I hate to say this but I wonder where the Reds are going if we had a conteding team I could understand the moves they have made but it looks like bandaids on a bullet wound

[jojo]

I haven't pleaded "poverty" - I think this is an astute move for THIS year in getting that right handed bat for 1st base and who can play the corner outfield positions, DH (now with inter-league play).

The Reds don't need a right handed bat who can play first base. The need a bat that can hit lefties well to complete the platoon with Hatteberg.

So here's a hypothetical. Which player would be considered a better fit (incidentally both are right handed and can play corner outfield too though lets be honest-both are defensive liabilities)?

Player A*: $2M/yr plus two minor leaguers and DFA'ing a potentially useful guy
2005 vs lefties: .280/.353/.347 75 AB
2006 vs lefties: .260/.337/.400 150 AB

Pecota prediction for both sides in '07: .266/.321/.395 (replacement level first baseman-he no longer shows a split advantage against lefties and hasn't really since '04 so what you see is what you get)

Player B*: probably a 2 yr deal for $7-9.5M total
2005 vs lefties: .283/.449/.415 53 AB
2006 vs lefties: .278/.347/.496 163 AB

pecota prediction for both sides in '07: 262/.361/.485 (league average for firstbase in '06 was .284/.342/.453 but he is likely to be better than Pecota's 50th percentile if a bigger percentage of his AB are against lefties).

So what is the ultimate goal? To simply fill roster spots for as little payroll as you can while crossing your fingers or to fill them with the best players possible within reason?

Do you want to be competitive or are you just attempting to appear like youre trying to be competitive?

I pick player B by the way...


*A=Conine; B=C. Wilson

[marcshoe]

My theory is that ten years ago, Wayne Krivsky made out a list of players he wanted to acquire if he ever became a GM, and now he's checking names off that list.

[Krusty]

Not bad of a deal. You get a journeyman player who knows his role for two marginal prospects.

Votto is the future first baseman. If Krivsky trades one of the top 10 Reds prospects, I would be concerned.

Meanwhile, I continue my winter snooze.

[jojo]

Not bad of a deal. You get a journeyman player who knows his role for two marginal prospects.

Votto is the future first baseman. If Krivsky trades one of the top 10 Reds prospects, I would be concerned.

Meanwhile, I continue my winter snooze.

Not really....two marginal prospects, the likely loss of a potentially useful guy in Harris and worst of all the opportunity cost of not having someone else give better at bats then what Conine brings to the table at this point in his career....

[Patpacillosjock]

What people also need to remember is that although STATISTICALLY, we might have gotten a decent player in Conine for relatively "cheap" but while not considered "injury proned", you HAVE to look at his age..41..he has some mileage..and who's to say he doesnt throw out his back or something in the first month and is out for the season..so whats that? 2 mil down the drain..

I get ripped on all the time for this but seriously...how can you NOT start being disgusted with WK

[Gallen5862]

I wonder if we offer Harris who we dfaed to the devil rays for the rights to Hamilton. That way they get a player and we would get to keep Hamilton. If not I hope we can either trade him or he clears waivers and we can keep him in the farm system.

[dunner13]

Everyone is complaining that krivsky isnt signing any big name free agents, but lets think about this for a second.

Lets say he has 15 million to spend this offseason.

He needs bullpen help, help in the rotation, a SS, and a part time 1B.

We can sign Ted Lilly to hep the rotation but then we still have holes at SS, 1st and in the pen.

So basically Wayne is working with in his budget. A big name free agent might be nice but if we still have 3 or 4 major holes on the team then we will not compete. Wayne is building this team within his budget, he has to fill all the holes with 15 million dollars not 15 for each hole.

[REDblooded]

wow......in 1 year, in 2 seperate trades, Krivsky has taken 79 years off of the Phillies.

No big deal, you say........ he got 3 26 year old ballplayers who are ready to contribute............

Nay, I say...........he got........Rheal Cormier, and Jeff Conine.


BOOYAH.

[Krusty]

Not really....two marginal prospects, the likely loss of a potentially useful guy in Harris and worst of all the opportunity cost of not having someone else give better at bats then what Conine brings to the table at this point in his career....


With most teams' rosters full, I doubt very much the Reds will end up losing Harris....pretty much the same route they took with catcher Miguel Perez.

[Krusty]

Man, I never seen so much age discrimination compared to what I have seen at Redszone.

Who gives a crap how old a guy is if he gets the job done? I have seen young kids out on the field that don't have a clue to what they're doing.

[roby]

I love it how everyone begs and begs for a move then when it happens their automatically disgusted with it

Nobody is begging for a move liike this! If GABP was a rest home, the Reds would be in business! :bang:

[Tom Servo]

Man, I never seen so much age discrimination compared to what I have seen at Redszone.

Who gives a crap how old a guy is if he gets the job done? I have seen young kids out on the field that don't have a clue to what they're doing.
I have to agree with you here, Krusty. Young guys like Standridge and Wise certainly didn't do anything that Yan and McCracken couldn't. I just want some results, and don't particularly care if they come from a guy who's 25 or 45.

[Chip R]

:laugh: :laugh:

Better hope that Geritol isn't on the MLB banned substance list. :eek:


If it is, we're going to have to forfeit a lot of games.

[vaticanplum]

I've stated before that I think the "play the game the right way" is a catchphrase for dumb jocks and not much else. Nevertheless, I desperately want some reporter to ask what playing the game the wrong way is. Running on Astroturf? Pitching watermelons? Or, more to the point, hitting home runs? I mean, that's essentially what they're saying, right? Somebody should call them on it.

[boognish]

Conine really isn't useful, but it's only for a year and it isn't like he is blocking a promising RH bat that can play the four corners.

This move is really only a loss if Harris doesn't clear waivers.

The Reds are in the somewhat unique position of lacking "replacement level" players in their system. True, Conine looks to me like the type of player you pick up in February, not someone you trade for in December...and although I'd prefer Wilson, I'm finding it hard to revile this move.

That said, it's another roster spot that could be better utilized, so I am finding it difficult to like this deal. I give it a C-. The Reds will be decidedly mediocre next year if they don't upgrade the 25-man somehow, somewhere. I'd like to echo the overriding sentiment on the board that it would be great to be able to discern an overall direction for the club.

[Falls City Beer]

Maybe Wayne really wanted Jeff Blauser (age 41), but had to settle for his younger doppelganger Jeff Conine (age 40).

[boognish]

Maybe Wayne really wanted Jeff Blauser (age 41), but had to settle for his younger doppelganger Jeff Conine (age 40).

:laugh:

Nice.

[Gallen5862]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/content/printer_friendly/cin/y2006/m12/d21/c1765845.jsp
Reds acquire Conine from Phillies
12/21/2006 5:07 PM ET
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

CINCINNATI -- With the Reds in pursuit of a right-handed hitter most of this offseason, several names had surfaced as potential fits -- ranging from Craig Wilson to Eduardo Perez to Mark Loretta.
But Cincinnati general manager Wayne Krivsky, who prefers to work in the shadows while keeping all potential moves under the radar, acquired someone whose name was not so prominent in Hot Stove chatter.

It was Jeff Conine, who came over in a trade from the Phillies in exchange for Minor Leaguers Brad Key and Javon Moran on Thursday.

Scouring around to replace free-agent departure Rich Aurilia, Krivsky had kicked the tires on several right-handed hitters and spoke with agents and other clubs during the Winter Meetings. However, Conine's name only surfaced more recently.

"We just felt like this was our best alternative," Krivsky said. "It just came about really in the last couple of days. I had him on the list of players that might be acquired by trade to fill that type of role we've been looking for. We just felt after talking to all of our scouts that this was the best alternative that was available to us. The cost was right in terms of his contract, and also the players that were involved. We felt like it was a fair deal."

Last season, Conine batted .268 with 10 home runs and 66 RBIs for the Orioles and Phillies. He was dealt from Baltimore to Philadelphia on Aug. 27. A 16-year veteran, the 40-year-old is a .286 career hitter with a .348 on-base percentage and was a member of the Marlins' World Series champion teams in 1997 and 2003.

Conine will make $2 million in 2007 as part of an option that vested when he surpassed 450 plate appearances in 2006. He became expendable when the Phillies signed free-agent outfielder Jayson Werth on Wednesday.

"It was a little bit of a surprise, obviously, a couple of days before Christmas, to get the call from [Phillies GM] Pat Gillick," said Conine, the 46th player Krivsky has acquired since taking over in February. "I didn't have a long tenure there in Philadelphia and I know the Reds were a very competitive ball club last year. I'm looking forward to the challenge of making them a little better and competing for a playoff spot."



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The Reds wanted their right-handed hitter to have experience at first base as a potential platoon complement for lefty hitting Scott Hatteberg. In Conine, Cincinnati gets someone who can play first and either corner outfield spot. The club currently has a vacancy in right field as well that Conine could split with Ryan Freel, Chris Denorfia, Bubba Crosby and others.

"[Outfield] is almost exclusively what I played with Philly," Conine said. "I played mostly first in Baltimore but some outfield, too. I'm as comfortable at both spots -- right, left or first."

"Sounds good to me," Reds manager Jerry Narron chimed in.

Not one that prefers to field the same lineup everyday, Narron envisioned taking advantage of Conine's versatility.

"He hits right-handed pitching real well too," Narron said. "So he might see a lot of time against right-handed pitching. We'll just talk this thing out and see where it leads, and we just expect him to give us great at-bats, whether it's off the bench or in a platoon or regular situation."

Conine, a two-time All-Star in 1994-95, is a career .303 hitter vs. lefties and a .280 hitter against right-handers. He isn't considered a power hitter, and his career-best 26 homers came a decade ago in 1996. But he should be someone that can take advantage of hitter-friendly Great American Ball Park.

To make room on the Reds' 40-man roster for Conine, infielder Brendan Harris was designated for assignment. Going to Philadelphia, Moran is an outfielder that batted .327 last season, combined at Class A Sarasota and Double-A Chattanooga. Key batted .220 between Class A Dayton and Sarasota.

This wasn't the first time Krivsky had tried to land Conine. As an assistant GM and National League scout for the Twins, he scouted him while Conine played for Florida. The Twins nearly signed Conine a couple of years ago before he decided to sign with Baltimore.

"He was someone I liked and admired as a scout," Krivsky said. "I liked the way he went about his business, real professional. He takes good at-bats. He's a tough out. He knows what he's doing at the plate. He can play different positions. He's just a classy veteran that I think will be a great addition to the team."

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[DannyB]

Excellent post. The Reds needed a platoon right handed hitter. This is not the place to drop a ton of money or enter a long-term contract. Conine is the type of guy you acquire to fill that role.

It should leave money for a decent pitching addition. That is where you spend the money. Hopefully, now that the Reds have awakened, they will get one.

If the Reds decided they didn't want Harris or Moran anymore, that shows me that they are evaluating their talent and making judgments. Fine with me. Moran was, I think, eligible for Rule V and wasn't selected. Let's not exaggerate his market value.

More than a platoon right handed hitter I think they needed an everyday first baseman.
Maybe one that could bat 5th,hit 20 hrs,drive in 100....................

[Willy]

I've stated before that I think the "play the game the right way" is a catchphrase for dumb jocks and not much else. Nevertheless, I desperately want some reporter to ask what playing the game the wrong way is. Running on Astroturf? Pitching watermelons? Or, more to the point, hitting home runs? I mean, that's essentially what they're saying, right? Somebody should call them on it.

I'm sorry but "play the game the right way" does hold a lot of weight in the really world. I have been apart of many teams were a guy who "plays the game the right way" is more valueable than guys with a ton of talent.

I would take a team of guys who play hard and do the little things, over a team with guys who have talent but don't have a clue how to win any day.

This isn't fantasy baseball!

[mth123]

Everyone is complaining that krivsky isnt signing any big name free agents, but lets think about this for a second.

Lets say he has 15 million to spend this offseason.

He needs bullpen help, help in the rotation, a SS, and a part time 1B.

We can sign Ted Lilly to hep the rotation but then we still have holes at SS, 1st and in the pen.

So basically Wayne is working with in his budget. A big name free agent might be nice but if we still have 3 or 4 major holes on the team then we will not compete. Wayne is building this team within his budget, he has to fill all the holes with 15 million dollars not 15 for each hole.

Not really. The acquisitions, especially in the pen, have done nothing but serve the purpose of pushing guys off the roster who are about the same but make the minimum. Salmon and Coutlangus would have served the same purpose as Stanton and Weathers IMO. I'd rather have those guys at the minimum than what little upgrade Stanton and Weathers provide (if any) if the money saved could be put into a real upgrade somewhere. I'd rather have a decent number 3 starter with the young guys in the pen, than Lohse with Weathers and Stanton. The choice is really paying a number 3 $10 Million with a couple pen guys who make 400K each or having Lohse with Weathers and Stanton.

The same is happening now with Conine pushing Harris off the Roster. Harris could have probably platooned at 1B with Hat just as well. Better/cheaper options though were all around. Minor league free agents like Josh Phelps and JR House could have been had for much cheaper and offered more upside. If the Reds could waste a 40 man roster spot and a major league contract on the likes of Bubba Crosby and Chad Moeller than one could have been offered to a Phelps or a House. They signed minor league deals and I presume a major league deal with a real opening in front of them would have gotten them here.

This deal isn't terrible but seems like another "path of least resistence" move. Wayne gets Conine because the Phillies sign Werth and Conine is the odd man out. Sounds a lot like Arroyo being the odd man out in Boston, Ross the odd man out, Phillips the odd man out, Hatteberg completely unemployed. Wk seems to just get the guys nobody else wants anymore. Some of those moves worked out, but is he really capable of making tough creative moves? His only attempt was a huge failure. The rest has just been bottom feeding no matter how it may have worked out. To me it seems like he only sees the obvious moves and offers no creativity when it comes to improving this team. Even another obvious Eduardo Perez move would have been cheaper and more on target in addressing the team's needs.

[vaticanplum]

I'm sorry but "play the game the right way" does hold a lot of weight in the really world. I have been apart of many teams were a guy who "plays the game the right way" is more valueable than guys with a ton of talent.

I would take a team with of guys who play hard and do the little things, over a team with guys who have talent but don't have a clue how to win any day.

This isn't fantasy baseball!

It means something to you because you already have a set definition in your head of what it means. The problem is that it is used as a catch-all media phrase, but it's never defined in the media. "Don't have a clue how to win"? What do you mean by that? Maybe you mean bunting, stealing bases, and speed. That's totally legitimate. Why is it so hard to say? To me, you win by playing good baseball. To break down how any one team specifically chooses to do that, given all the parts of its team, is quite complicated. So they throw it into a catchphrase, which is lazy and belittles the public's intelligence (and the public could use a bit more baseball education in my opinion).

I have berated people on this board at times because I do not think these phrases are indicative of Narron's deepest-rooted beliefs. When he praises a vet, that's for the public's sake. From that we cannot glean that he is always going to start a 40-year-old over a 25-year-old just due to age. But I do think it's lazy from a media standpoint.

[Kc61]

More than a platoon right handed hitter I think they needed an everyday first baseman.
Maybe one that could bat 5th,hit 20 hrs,drive in 100....................

I agree, for sure. But they obviously see Hatteberg as being the main first baseman for the near future, until Votto is ready, so a platoon partner was the obvious move.

With Griffey, Dunn and EE, the Reds need (at least) one more potent bat and first base was the obvious place. But the Reds, with Votto on the horizon, didn't want to commit resources to the position now.

All of which I can live with, if they add a 200 inning starter to go with Harang and Arroyo. I'm willing to live with a weakened offense if they truly improve the pitching. So far we have the weaker offense, but not the improved pitching.

I do expect the Reds to make a move for a pitcher before the off-season is over. It's the big obvious missing piece of the puzzle for next year's club. I can live with the rest of this if they add a good pitcher.

[Vada Pinson Fan]

Jeff Conine. 40 years old? Why? Why? Why? Are the Reds (Krivsky) going the senior citizen route again and again? Is there a long term plan for the Reds (other than acquire old veteran pitchers and position players)?

Unbelievable! And now he releases Brendan Harris which makes the horrible Austin Kearns, et. al. trade that much worse!

[jmac]

Unbelievable! And now he releases Brendan Harris which makes the horrible Austin Kearns, et. al. trade that much worse!

Who was the player here while back the reds held onto seemingly to justify another trade. Oh well, the name escapes me.
Point is.....a team doesnt ever know what they are getting in a trade involving unprovens.So if a guy doesnt work out, I would rather let him go then keep him and just keep hoping for "justifying's" sake.

[Ltlabner]

I am really disapointed with this move. Conine isn't necessarly dreadfull, but I thought they had an opportunity to get a real solid bat at 1B but instead seem to have settled for an "ok" bat. If we had a dirth of real power guys around he'd be a nice pickup for fill in at-bats, PH, etc. But we don't. And it seems clear from the press release that Wayne's checked "solid RH bat for 1B platoon" off his to-do list.

Hatteburg was a real "ho hum" pickup last year and it seemed to work out, but I had hoped they were going to make a move that made a statment instead of being "hope Wayne has some magic up his sleeve".

I know this guy is a one year solution but what if Votto folds next year in AAA? What if he's injured and we need a 1B solution in 2008? What if the deal of the century comes along and we trade Votto? We're back to the drawing board again. Why not go with a guy who could potentially be around in 2008 and either have the luxury of competition for the starting job or some nice trade bait?

Maybe all the Craig Wilson talk got my expectations too high. I don't know....not a fan of this move.

[FreelFanatic]

Not really. The acquisitions, especially in the pen, have done nothing but serve the purpose of pushing guys off the roster who are about the same but make the minimum. Salmon and Coutlangus would have served the same purpose as Stanton and Weathers IMO. I'd rather have those guys at the minimum than what little upgrade Stanton and Weathers provide (if any) if the money saved could be put into a real upgrade somewhere.

...

The same is happening now with Conine pushing Harris off the Roster. Harris could have probably platooned at 1B with Hat just as well. Better/cheaper options though were all around.

Are you serious? Salmon+Coutlangus+Harris=52 major league appearances, all by Harris. Heck, Coutlangus only has two TRIPLE A appearances. You can't just throw out names and expect they'll produce like the veterans you've named, regardless of what you may save in salary.

[edabbs44]

"He hits right-handed pitching real well too," Narron said. "So he might see a lot of time against right-handed pitching. We'll just talk this thing out and see where it leads, and we just expect him to give us great at-bats, whether it's off the bench or in a platoon or regular situation."

I might be drunk right now, but that isn't the reason why I am feeling faint.

Seriously, who does Narron think he is kidding?

1) "He hits right-handed pitching real well too" - OK, let's see about that:

2006: .271/.320/.398
2005: .312/.380/.419
2004: .282/.331/.415

Real well doesn't fit the bill here.

2) "Regular at-bats" - I'm gonna heave.

Seriously...72 wins is a pipe dream for 2006. I'm all about 2007 right now.

[jbran1114]

Trying to be positive.... Having a guy who can at least put the ball in play may help out. How many times can you recall last and previous years when the reds had a RISP with no outs and could not get it over. 489 AB with only 65 SO. Maybe something to that. Craig Wilson? 359 AB, 122 SO.

[cacollinsmba]

Maybe Conine will be a positive influence on that Hatteberg kid.

[jbran1114]

If they're going to platoon Hatteberg at least they have a guy who won't strike out is what I'm saying.

[Ron Madden]

If they're going to platoon Hatteberg at least they have a guy who won't strike out is what I'm saying.

If he's not able to reach base what's it matter how he makes outs ?

[jbran1114]

I know people hate the fact that you can advance runner without getting on base. "small ball" has become a very naughty word to a lot of people. I agree with a lot of sabrmetrics and all, but sometimes you have to take what you can get. I still belive in a productive out I guess. Iknow ill be crucified for that.

[Sean_CaseyRules]

No, that's how I think too, if you can get out, but put the runner into scoring position or move him to third, then there really isn't anything to be furious about. I believe that things like that win games.

[jbran1114]

You know the more I compare C. Wilson and Conine, hang on to your butts, I may just prefer Conine. Considering my knee jerk reaction was to vomit, I'd like to see what Wilson signs for somewhere else. And a compensation pick to boot after '07.

[jbran1114]

But don't get me wrong, I'm not too enthusiastic about the acquisition.

[jojo]

You know the more I compare C. Wilson and Conine, hang on to your butts, I may just prefer Conine. Considering my knee jerk reaction was to vomit, I'd like to see what Wilson signs for somewhere else. And a compensation pick to boot after '07.

why do you think that?

[Spring~Fields]

Not really. The acquisitions, especially in the pen, have done nothing but serve the purpose of pushing guys off the roster who are about the same but make the minimum. Salmon and Coutlangus would have served the same purpose as Stanton and Weathers IMO. I'd rather have those guys at the minimum than what little upgrade Stanton and Weathers provide (if any) if the money saved could be put into a real upgrade somewhere. I'd rather have a decent number 3 starter with the young guys in the pen, than Lohse with Weathers and Stanton. The choice is really paying a number 3 $10 Million with a couple pen guys who make 400K each or having Lohse with Weathers and Stanton.

The same is happening now with Conine pushing Harris off the Roster. Harris could have probably platooned at 1B with Hat just as well. Better/cheaper options though were all around. Minor league free agents like Josh Phelps and JR House could have been had for much cheaper and offered more upside. If the Reds could waste a 40 man roster spot and a major league contract on the likes of Bubba Crosby and Chad Moeller than one could have been offered to a Phelps or a House. They signed minor league deals and I presume a major league deal with a real opening in front of them would have gotten them here.

This deal isn't terrible but seems like another "path of least resistence" move. Wayne gets Conine because the Phillies sign Werth and Conine is the odd man out. Sounds a lot like Arroyo being the odd man out in Boston, Ross the odd man out, Phillips the odd man out, Hatteberg completely unemployed. Wk seems to just get the guys nobody else wants anymore. Some of those moves worked out, but is he really capable of making tough creative moves? His only attempt was a huge failure. The rest has just been bottom feeding no matter how it may have worked out. To me it seems like he only sees the obvious moves and offers no creativity when it comes to improving this team. Even another obvious Eduardo Perez move would have been cheaper and more on target in addressing the team's needs.

You really nail it and see down the road, while reading the past and present so well.

[mth123]

Are you serious? Salmon+Coutlangus+Harris=52 major league appearances, all by Harris. Heck, Coutlangus only has two TRIPLE A appearances. You can't just throw out names and expect they'll produce like the veterans you've named, regardless of what you may save in salary.

I think its very reasonable to assume that Harris could play 1B against LH and hit .260 with no power. Now we pay $2 Million for it and while I'm not all that concerned about the loss of Moran, he could have been used in a deal for something else at least.

As for Weathers, he is a 5+ ERA waiting to happen. If his BABIP of .236 from 2006 isn't repeated, his high walk and hr rates will catch-up with him. So yes, I'd rather have Salmon with his hard stuff and $400K salary than Weathers smoke and mirrors (not much smoke in the baseball sense) at $2.5 Million plus for the next 2 years.

Stanton will probably be ok, but is no better alternative in his role than Bray or even the dreaded Cormier. The Reds didn't need to pay $2.5 Million plus for a 3rd LH with Coutlangus, Shackleford, Pelland and Dumatrait all laying around with no roster spot available. That 3rd LH is probably going to be relegated to mop-up/LOOGY duties and the role was easily filled.

$7 Million from these 3 added to the $6 Million the Reds will already be spending on Kyle Lohse to be the number 3 starter could have been put toward a real fix at one or two of the real need areas. WK spent the money on CDs and and an extra sweater when the fridge was empty. It doesn't make the CDs awful or the sweater completely useless, but it won't matter if you starve to death.

[jojo]

I think its very reasonable to assume that Harris could play 1B against LH and hit .260 with no power. Now we pay $2 Million for it and while I'm not all that concerned about the loss of Moran, he could have been used in a deal for something else at least.

As for Weathers, he is a 5+ ERA waiting to happen. If his BABIP of .236 from 2006 isn't repeated, his high walk and hr rates will catch-up with him. So yes, I'd rather have Salmon with his hard stuff and $400K salary than Weathers smoke and mirrors (not much smoke in the baseball sense) at $2.5 Million plus for the next 2 years.

Stanton will probably be ok, but is no better alternative in his role than Bray or even the dreaded Cormier. The Reds didn't need to pay $2.5 Million plus for a 3rd LH with Coutlangus, Shackleford, Pelland and Dumatrait all laying around with no roster spot available. That 3rd LH is probably going to be relegated to mop-up/LOOGY duties and the role was easily filled.

$7 Million from these 3 added to the $6 Million the Reds will already be spending on Kyle Lohse to be the number 3 starter could have been put toward a real fix at one or two of the real need areas. WK spent the money on CDs and and an extra sweater when the fridge was empty. It doesn't make the CDs awful or the sweater completely useless, but it won't matter if you starve to death.

I absolutely agree..... alot of people forget the hidden costs of decisions made while formulating the roster--------opportunity costs....

[Redhook]

I think its very reasonable to assume that Harris could play 1B against LH and hit .260 with no power. Now we pay $2 Million for it and while I'm not all that concerned about the loss of Moran, he could have been used in a deal for something else at least.

As for Weathers, he is a 5+ ERA waiting to happen. If his BABIP of .236 from 2006 isn't repeated, his high walk and hr rates will catch-up with him. So yes, I'd rather have Salmon with his hard stuff and $400K salary than Weathers smoke and mirrors (not much smoke in the baseball sense) at $2.5 Million plus for the next 2 years.

Stanton will probably be ok, but is no better alternative in his role than Bray or even the dreaded Cormier. The Reds didn't need to pay $2.5 Million plus for a 3rd LH with Coutlangus, Shackleford, Pelland and Dumatrait all laying around with no roster spot available. That 3rd LH is probably going to be relegated to mop-up/LOOGY duties and the role was easily filled.

$7 Million from these 3 added to the $6 Million the Reds will already be spending on Kyle Lohse to be the number 3 starter could have been put toward a real fix at one or two of the real need areas. WK spent the money on CDs and and an extra sweater when the fridge was empty. It doesn't make the CDs awful or the sweater completely useless, but it won't matter if you starve to death.

Well said.

This roster is starving to death for difference makers, not pillow fluffers. It's hard to tell how much money is left or, really, what is actually going on. The bottom line is this:

This team could compete if a solid #3 or better was acquired along with a very good right-handed bat (preferably a CF). The cost of those two would probably be around #20 million/year. I'd rather two players like that and fill up the remaining spots with 400K players rather than sprinkle all the money around on $2-$5 million players. I believe the Reds had the money to do that. Now, we'll never know because Wayne is making moves ass-backwards.

[Danny Serafini]

A possible postscript on this move from Marc's blog:

After being designated for assignment yesterday, Brendan Harris told his hometown paper (http://www.poststar.com/articles/2006/12/22/news/doc458bc42c21c77874593024.txt) he expects to be traded again.

Makes sense that the Reds would try to get something for Harris, who would've been an extreme longshot to make the big-league roster this spring. If they need reinforcements at the positions he can play, they can use Olmedo or Bergolla.

I think Marc may have checked out for Tampa already, someone should tell him Bergolla isn't an option anymore. ;)

[Matt700wlw]

Everyone begs for *good* moves. They are disgusted with *bad* moves.

Wouldn't it be fair to not judge a move "good" or "bad" until after it plays out?

With that.....I don't think it's a bad move per se, but there are more pressing needs at the moment.

[jmac]

Concerning wilson , we know hatteberg is gonna play vs the righties and the NL isnt loaded with many lefties.
So my guess is wilson wouldnt come here for the same reason aurilia wanted to leave.....more playing time.
Aurilia started several games at 2nd, ss ,3rd and first.
Wilson would be at 1st with an occasional OF start !(unless injury)

[Spring~Fields]

Wouldn't it be fair to not judge a move "good" or "bad" until after it plays out?

With that.....I don't think it's a bad move per se, but there are more pressing needs at the moment.

It is not always a matter of whether the move was “good” or “bad” but whether the move was adequate enough to upgrade the team to a winning status from a history of losing. The question should be, do these moves make the Reds a winner, can they now win more games than they lose?

[Highlifeman21]

A possible postscript on this move from Marc's blog:

After being designated for assignment yesterday, Brendan Harris told his hometown paper (http://www.poststar.com/articles/2006/12/22/news/doc458bc42c21c77874593024.txt) he expects to be traded again.

Makes sense that the Reds would try to get something for Harris, who would've been an extreme longshot to make the big-league roster this spring. If they need reinforcements at the positions he can play, they can use Olmedo or Bergolla.

I think Marc may have checked out for Tampa already, someone should tell him Bergolla isn't an option anymore. ;)


Glad I didn't bet money that Brendan Harris would be on the 25 man roster when the team heads North from Sarasota...

Depending on the return of a potential Harris trade, this could make "The Trade" look even worse.