Bengals/Broncos: Bengals can clinch WC

[Oxilon]

17 Bengals
14 Broncos

Bengals are up, but they really should be up big on the Broncos. The offense looked really ugly in the 1st quarter, but looked better in the 2nd. The defense, on the other hand, has been playing some of its best ball all season, IMO. Besides a trick play (exact same play from the playoffs last season against the Steelers) and a long TD pass, the Bengals defense hasn't allowed anything.

If the Bengals O gets back to executing good ball, and there D keeps performing the way it has, the Bengals should pull away.

Oh, and they lock up a WC position if they win, which is kinda of nice, I guess.

[dougdirt]

awesome defense....99 freaking yard drive to allow them to take the lead. Freaking ridiculous

[MWM]

That 3rd down PI call on the Bengals on that 99 yard drive was horrible. It almost as horrible as the Bengals defense that drive.

[Playadlc]

Palmer has been absoultely horrible today.

[MrCinatit]

The Bengals are a very frustrating team to watch.
Very frustrating.

[Playadlc]

Seriously, the Bengals are just pissing this game away.

Do they even want to go to the playoffs?

[MrCinatit]

Seriously, the Bengals are just pissing this game away.
Do they even want to go to the playoffs?

I sometimes wonder. Talent means absolutely nothing when you have no heart and no soul.

[MWM]

What we're seeing today is the difference between smart coaches and not-so-smart coaches. The Bengals came out shutting down the Denver offense completely. Then halftime came. The Broncos made adjusments and now they're walking all over the Bengals defense, while they sit back and do nothing. Same for the offense. The offensive coaching has been miserable about half of this season.

[Playadlc]

And now Rudi Johnson fumbles.

This team is a joke.

[Falls City Beer]

It's tough to play at altitude.

[Reds4Life]

The Bengals always seem to choke during the big game when it's all on the line, lets hope they can pull this one out with a W.

[Playadlc]

Is Carson still injured or what? I have never seen him play this bad.

[MWM]

Pass interference and defensive holding in the NFL is an absolute joke.

[dougdirt]

The Bengals are trying at every step to give this game away and the refs are having their way as well.

[MrCinatit]

Simply amazing.
It takes a serious choke to miss a simple extra point.
Welcome to the end of the season. The Steelers are going to wipe this team next week.

[Playadlc]

I am done with sports.

[Spring~Fields]

Disappointing

[dougdirt]

words cant describe how i feel.

[Oxilon]

I've been upset at Bengals losses before. Some more than others. The Colts game last week, or the Steelers playoff game last year. But this game takes the cake. We simply were a better team than the Broncos, but we just couldn't put it together today for 3 quarters and 12 minutes. But that last drive by Carson was a thing of beauty capped off by a mile high salute from TJ. When everybody thinks it's in the bag -- BAM! I'm really contemplating not watching next weeks Bengals game. I'm so sick of disbelief it hurts.

[Reds4Life]

Choked again, it's becoming an ugly habit with this team.

How in the hell do you muff a snap on a extra point that badly? It wasn't even freakin' close.

Ugh.

[George Foster]

This game was doomed one the Bengals first posession of the game. To have 1st down on the five, and come up empty, is just plain horrible, and not what play-off teams do in December. Palmer is not quite ready for prime-time either. The last two games were the two biggest games of the season and he has left something to be desired. THIS IS NOT A PLAY-OFF TEAM!

[Reds Freak]

Why is anyone surprised? This game was a microcosm of the entire history of the Bengals franchise. They are incredibly frustrating, then you think they might turn the corner, but are just ready to crush your hearts time and time again.

[redsfan30]

I'm speechless.

[traderumor]

Just got home from candlelight service at church to see they muffed a game tying extra point. Ugh, what a way to lose a chance to outright clinch a playoff birth.

That will be a fun plane ride home. Wonder how much finger pointing will be going on?

[traderumor]

THIS IS NOT A PLAY-OFF TEAM!They probably are if they win next week.

[Reds Freak]

So how do they get in? Obviously the Bengals have to win next week. I'm guessing the Jets have to lose one of two?

[George Foster]

They probably are if they win next week.

I meant that they are not playing like a play-off team and if they do make it, they won't last long.

[Playadlc]

I think (judging by stregth of schedule) that if the Jets lose and the Bengals win next Sunday against Pitt., they are in.

[guttle11]

I...uh...um...

[dougdirt]

here is what I came up with about todays game.

We didnt deserve to win this game, but we surely didnt deserve to lose the way we did.

[Reds Freak]

As goofy as it sounds, if they are able to sneak into the playoffs they are going to be a dangerous team. Just as easily as they fall apart like today, they are able to put it together and look unbeatable.

[George Foster]

As goofy as it sounds, if they are able to sneak into the playoffs they are going to be a dangerous team. Just as easily as they fall apart like today, they are able to put it together and look unbeatable.

They really have not had that great of a game since they beat the Ravens.

[guttle11]

If the Dolphins beat the Jets tomorrow, they're in with a win over Pittsburgh.

Go Dolphins!

[Reds4Life]

If the Dolphins beat the Jets tomorrow, they're in with a win over Pittsburgh.

Go Dolphins!

With our luck, and as bad as Pitt looked today, they'll look like the friggin Super Bowl champs next week. :rolleyes:

[traderumor]

I meant that they are not playing like a play-off team and if they do make it, they won't last long.Maybe, maybe not. Things change fast in this league, I would rather not draw the Bengals as a WC because they are dangerous. Frustrating, but dangerous. I think they'll beat the Steelers next week, unless Cowher pulls a "this is my last game" circumstance on us. The Steelers looked pretty impotent today, and I know it was the Ravens D, but their offense is struggling. Anyhow, it sounds like I should have gotten home just in time for OT except for the muffed PAT :thumbdown

[guttle11]

This team just can't stand prosperity. They shot themselves in the foot from the first drive to the onsides kick.

I'm almost beyond words right now.

The Bengals are slowly becoming the Red Sox of football.

[Oxilon]

This team just can't stand prosperity. They shot themselves in the foot from the first drive to the onsides kick.

I'm almost beyond words right now.

The Bengals are slowly becoming the Red Sox of football.

We'd have to win a championship to be compared to the Red Sox. If anybody, with the way we lost today especially, I'd consider the Bengals the Cubs of football. ;)

[pedro]

wow. that was brutal.

the only word i can think of is "bengalrific".

[WMR]

Officially the worst game I've ever watched.

This might be the mentally weakest Bengal team I've seen since Bruce Coslet's swan song season.

[Hap]

Murphy's Law also killed the Bengals in all of Sam Wyche's years, except for 88.

[traderumor]

Officially the worst game I've ever watched.

This might be the mentally weakest Bengal team I've seen since Bruce Coslet's swan song season.The SD loss was more brutal for me. They have found some amazing ways to lose games this year.

[Tyler Durden]

This team just absolutely amazes me with the depths to which they'll sink to lose a game. I'm just depressed now. It's a christmas miracle.

[traderumor]

I just watched the replay, looked like a crappy snap and with the snow coming down, Larson couldn't handle it out away from his body.

[redsfan30]

Whoever said earlier is correct....if the Jets lose one of thier last two (they play Miami tomorrow night) and the Bengals win Sunday, they will sneak in in the 6th spot.

We REALLY need the Dolphins to help us out tomorrow because if they don't, we have to rely on the Raiders to go to the Meadowlands next week and knock the Jets off. :help:

[KoryMac5]

I was just blown away by this loss. We had every opportunity to win this game and yet we still blew it. 4 turnovers are inexcusable when you are trying to get to the playoffs. This team has some growing up to do and some weeding out of some players.

[MrCinatit]

The Bengals do not deserve a playoff hope, and I actually find myself kind of hoping they don't make it.
Mainly because, if they actually do make it to the postseason, then they will simply assume they can pull the same crap they did this seaon on field and off any old time they want. This team needs to learn to hone their skills, rather than DWIing them.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Yep... feels like the old Bungles after today's game.

(1) Coaching - Are the coaches that good? Do they make adjustments during the game? The 99-yard drive by the Broncos hurt. The offense gets the ball with 9:30 left in the game at their own 20, throw 3 times and punt... while Rudi and the running game were working well. Why in sam hades do you kick that stupid loft thing after the first onsides kick (covered by the Bengals) was nullified by a penalty? Stupid.

(2) Carson Palmer - Just doesn't seem to have it the last couple of weeks. Two bad interceptions... bad throw in the endzone and a pass that should not have been made to Chad when Bailey had him covered like a blanket. Many bad throws... many. A couple of deep balls that were overthrown to wide open Henry and Chad. Injured shoulder or just a funk?

(3) Justin Smith - Quit going inside if you do not have someone outside to cover your area. That is why the Broncos kept running the reverse to your side. You'd think after 3 of those reverses he'd learn (or the coaches would tell him?). Luckily Dexter Jackson covered his butt with great pursuit and heads up play the last two times. He also moved inside on the 99-yard drive when the Broncos ran right at him and gained 17-yards when they had 2nd-and-9 from the 2-yard-line. A D-end must not allow guys to get outside of his area. He does it all the time.

(4) Refs - Maybe I am biased, but it seems that the Bengals get the shaft week in and week out. That WR had possesion when he grabbed the gadget play pass? I didn't think so. The defensive holding call? Come on. The interference call on Landon Johnson? Come on. The offsides call on the onside kick? If so, offsides s/b called on every kickoff in the NFL.

(5) Turnovers - No explanation needed. The defense (when not playing a Cleveland or Oakland) is not that good. You cannot give it up 4 times and expect to win.

Oh well. I have suffered through a lot worse as a Bengals lifer. I didn't get mad when the snap was botched. I just shook my head and remembered days of old. I'll be rooting tooth-and-nail against the Steelers and hope to slip in the playoffs. It has been worse!

[Playadlc]

Anyone else feel like me in that they won't watch the Jets-Dolphins game tommorow night?

I just don't think I can stomach it.

[redsfan30]

RFA,

I agree with all that you said...however the offisides call on the onside kick was legit. As bad as it hurt, it was legit.

[redsfan30]

Anyone else feel like me in that they won't watch the Jets-Dolphins game tommorow night?

I just don't think I can stomach it.

I'm quite the opposite....I'll be glued to that game once we get home from my Grandma's.

[RedFanAlways1966]

RFA,

I agree with all that you said...however the offisides call on the onside kick was legit. As bad as it hurt, it was legit.

You are probably right, rf30. I guess the sting of the botched PAT was not allowing me to see 20-20 at that point! And we all know that the refs are looking for it a lot closer when an onsides kick seems like an obvious thing. The players on the kick-team need to realize this too.

[traderumor]

Anyone else feel like me in that they won't watch the Jets-Dolphins game tommorow night?

I just don't think I can stomach it.I will be surprised if the Jets win that game. The Dolphins D is still as good as any in the game and the Jets aren't a whole lot different than the Bengals historically.

[MWM]

RFA,

I agree with all that you said...however the offisides call on the onside kick was legit. As bad as it hurt, it was legit.

It was a legit call. He was offsides by a few inches. But it was selective enforcement, IMO. If you look in slow motion at every kick-off, I'd bet a majority of the time there's at least one player that much past the line.

The refs made a couple of bad calls (pass interference and defensive holding), but the refs did not cost the Bengals the game today. They didn't even come close (as opposed to the Tampa Bay game where they DIRECTLY cost them the game). It looks like that roughing call against Justin Smith might be the difference between the playoffs and staying home. I've still yet to see another call approach that one in attrociousness.

[Tyler Durden]

The illegal shift call on Chad was pretty questionable too.

[MWM]

I thought the illegal shift call on Chad was the right call. Actually, as soon as the ball was snapped I made the comment that someone was moving before the snap. That would have been a d bad miss had they not called it, IMO.

[pedro]

Some of the penalties against the Bengals may have been soft but they were all stuff that I would expect to be called if the Broncos committed them. The Bengals played yet another atrocious half of football and they deserved to lose.

Still, I remain confident in Marvin Lewis and think he'll learn from the mistakes they've made this year. Marvin is undoubtably the first coach since Sam Wyche who has had a clue. Also, despite the Bengals disappointing season so far, it was not that long ago that we didn't know if Carson Palmer would ever make it back full strength, which he appears to have done.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I wish the bengals were doing better and while I know that they seem to find ways to lose as only the Bengals can, I remain a fan and think they are finally headed in teh right direction, even if this season ends up a bust.

[MWM]

I'm still on board with Marvin, pedro, but one thing was clear throughout most of the year - this team was a horrible second half team. That points to coaching, IMO. Other teams are making adjustments at halftime and the bengals aren't. Bresnahan has to go. Here's what the Sports Guy said this week about him in his picks column: "Someone In The Know once told me, "Bet against Chuck Bresnahan (Cincy's defensive coordinator) against any good coach. He stinks. Smart coaches and smart QBs always have a field day against him."

Not that my opinion is based solely on this statement, but it's clear from watching this year that the Bengals defense is very poorly coached. That's an indictment on Marvin if you ask me. He needs to get someone else.

[macro]

If the Dolphins beat the Jets tomorrow, they're in with a win over Pittsburgh.

Go Dolphins!

And the problem is that if the Dolphins don't beat the Jets tomorrow night, the season is all but over for Cincinnati. Not that they deserve for it to continue anyway. The Broncos finish up with a home game against SF, so they're going to finish 10-6. The Jets finish up with a bye, er, I mean a home game against Oakland. So if the Jets win tomorrow, they'll have all but eliminated the Bengals. The Pittsburgh game will only be for bragging rights.

[CTA513]

I just watched the replay, looked like a crappy snap and with the snow coming down, Larson couldn't handle it out away from his body.

The snap was going away from him and they would of had no chance to kick the ball even if he fell on it.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Can someone explain the illegal shift penalty to me please. I thought that was a rule in place to keep two players from going in motion at the same time. It looked like there a lineman was finishing going set and Chad moved his back foot, but not as a "going in motion" move.

[RedsFanatic]

Yeah, I don't understand the illegal shift penalty. Chad and the linemen aren't allowed to set themselves at the same time? How dumb of a rule is that. Whatever, this team didn't deserve to win anyways. I am so fed up with this team.

[Reds Fanatic]

Can someone explain the illegal shift penalty to me please. I thought that was a rule in place to keep two players from going in motion at the same time. It looked like there a lineman was finishing going set and Chad moved his back foot, but not as a "going in motion" move.
As I understand it you can't have 2 players on the line moving at the same time no matter what the movement is they can't both be getting set at the same time.

[George Foster]

As I understand the playoff's, Miami HAS to beat the Jets tomorrow for the Bengals to get in. The Jets play the Raiders next Sunday and that is a automatic win. On another note, the Steelers would LOVE to eliminate the Bengals next Sunday, they have nothing else to play for.

[GAC]

I fell asleep in the 2nd half watching the game. I get up this morning to see the article on the botched extra pt and just shake my head. What a game with alot of blunders on both sides.

I have to give credit to Mike Shanahan and his innovative play calling. The Bengal's defensive coordinator, IMO, wasn't prepared for it at all.

Miami has to beat the Jets huh? Well, I'm a Miami fan tonight guys. And since it's in Miami I think they just very well could win.

What is going on with the Colts? A loss to Houston?????

My AFC sleeper is still the Patriots. ;)

[GAC]

On another note, the Steelers would LOVE to eliminate the Bengals next Sunday, they have nothing else to play for.

Oh yeah. Can't take their eyes off that game. It's like the OSU-Michigan game IMO. Throw out the stats/record, cause it will be a game with the Steelers playing with nothing to lose.

And as you say George - they'd be tickled pink to eliminate the Bengals.

[RedsBaron]

My sons receieved Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson jerseys for Christmas, but they are not authentic jerseys-they have yet to throw an interception or fumble this morning.;)
I understand Palmer played with an injured throwing shoulder. I don't really blame Palmer or Johnson for the Bengals's shortcomings this season--they are both deserving of their pro bowl selections, and Palmer has shown courage in coming back this season. However, I was so disappointed by yesterday's game, and by many of the Bengals this season.

[WVRed]

I'm still on board with Marvin, pedro, but one thing was clear throughout most of the year - this team was a horrible second half team. That points to coaching, IMO. Other teams are making adjustments at halftime and the bengals aren't. Bresnahan has to go. Here's what the Sports Guy said this week about him in his picks column: "Someone In The Know once told me, "Bet against Chuck Bresnahan (Cincy's defensive coordinator) against any good coach. He stinks. Smart coaches and smart QBs always have a field day against him."

Not that my opinion is based solely on this statement, but it's clear from watching this year that the Bengals defense is very poorly coached. That's an indictment on Marvin if you ask me. He needs to get someone else.

I have a feeling that both Bresnahan and Bratkowski are gone after this season. Bresnahan will be shown the door, and Bratkowski will be in line for a job opening (probably Atlanta).

[GAC]

I understand Palmer played with an injured throwing shoulder.

I read the the other day that that assumption came from some blog site after someone witnessed Carson, in practice, acting like his shoulder was injured. It seems he was play acting (goofing off) with guys in practice, and he says his shoulder is fine.

Unless of course there is some new development that I haven't heard of.

[pedro]

I'm still on board with Marvin, pedro, but one thing was clear throughout most of the year - this team was a horrible second half team. That points to coaching, IMO. Other teams are making adjustments at halftime and the bengals aren't. Bresnahan has to go. Here's what the Sports Guy said this week about him in his picks column: "Someone In The Know once told me, "Bet against Chuck Bresnahan (Cincy's defensive coordinator) against any good coach. He stinks. Smart coaches and smart QBs always have a field day against him."

Not that my opinion is based solely on this statement, but it's clear from watching this year that the Bengals defense is very poorly coached. That's an indictment on Marvin if you ask me. He needs to get someone else.

I agree.

[George Foster]

The hopes of a post-season for the Bengals is in the hands of Joey Harrington:eek: :eek: :cry: :thumbdown :thumbdown

[Reds Fanatic]

The hopes of a post-season for the Bengals is in the hands of Joey Harrington:eek: :eek: :cry: :thumbdown :thumbdown
Even worse the Bengals hopes now rest on Cleo Lemon. :barf:

[guttle11]

Even worse the Bengals hopes now rest on Cleo Lemon. :barf:

Don't you talk about my Cleo like that!

As of right now, he's the greatest human being on Earth!

[George Foster]

Don't you talk about my Cleo like that!

As of right now, he's the greatest human being on Earth!

What's sad is that we have to watch this game. Like watching Purdue and Indiana play football. As I speak the Jets score a TD:thumbdown

[Jpup]

I hope the Fins can go down and score. The Titans need a Dolphins win and a Bengals loss next week to get to the playoffs. The Titans, of course, would need to beat New England in Nashville next week as well. I'm not sure how the Chiefs figure in the picture.

Miami really needs to win, but with 7 1/2 to play, it isn't likely.

[WMR]

I hope the Fins can go down and score. The Titans need a Dolphins win and a Bengals loss next week to get to the playoffs. The Titans, of course, would need to beat New England in Nashville next week as well. I'm not sure how the Chiefs figure in the picture.

Miami really needs to win, but with 7 1/2 to play, it isn't likely.

No one here cares about the Titans.

[paintmered]

I hope the Fins can go down and score. The Titans need a Dolphins win and a Bengals loss next week to get to the playoffs. The Titans, of course, would need to beat New England in Nashville next week as well. I'm not sure how the Chiefs figure in the picture.

Miami really needs to win, but with 7 1/2 to play, it isn't likely.

I'm pretty sure you're talking to yourself when it comes to the Titans around here.

[MWM]

Well, that 70 yard play on the first play of the final drive shoudl do it. Nail, meet coffin. I'm not as upset as I thought I'd be. The Bengals did it to themselves. They aren't all that deserving of the playoffs, so it doesn't feel as bad as if they were.

[George Foster]

The Bengals have no one to blame but themselves. This franchise took a big step backward this year. There is a "lack of institutional control" to coin a NCAA term. No discipline off the field is a sure sign that there are a lot of problems at the top. I love Marvin. He's done a good job, but all the off the field problems really hurt this team and was a major distraction. The Bengals were not a Super Bowl team this year due to the Palmer injury and various other injuries. However there is no excuse for this team not to make the play-offs.

[Playadlc]

Goodnight, Cincinnati.

[Playadlc]

Of all the good teams in the AFC, the talentless Jets somehow make the playoffs.

[George Foster]

Of all the good teams in the AFC, the talentless Jets somehow make the playoffs.

They won a big game that they had to win....hats off! The Bengals did not.

[Jpup]

No one here cares about the Titans.

I do and that's what matters. Besides I know, at least, 1 other poster that does. I don't care about UK basketball or Bengal football, but it doesn't concern me if you do. Have a great day.

[Tom Servo]

Of all the good teams in the AFC, the talentless Jets somehow make the playoffs.
I live in New Jersey and hate the Jets myself (Got into football when staying with my Cape Cod based grandparents, so I'm a Patriots man) but I get to see them play all the time and can tell you they are certainly not talentless.

[Playadlc]

They won a big game that they had to win....hats off! The Bengals did not.

It has nothing to do with the Bengals. The Jets have no talent, they benefited from a soft schedule, and slipped into the playoffs because of it.

I am not even sure if they are an average football team.

Seriously, this team lost to Cleveland.

[forfreelin04]

[QUOTE=Playadlc;1217450]It has nothing to do with the Bengals. The Jets have no talent, they benefited from a soft schedule, and slipped into the playoffs because of it.

I am not even sure if they are an average football team.

Seriously, this team lost to Cleveland.[/QUOTE/]

I wouldnt say that. They benefited from one thing, not turning the ball over. They may have less talent than the Bengals, but they certainly have more brains.

[Falls City Beer]

Don't frown. Reds' baseball's just two months away! :evil: :devil:

[Oxilon]

It has nothing to do with the Bengals. The Jets have no talent, they benefited from a soft schedule, and slipped into the playoffs because of it.

I am not even sure if they are an average football team.

Seriously, this team lost to Cleveland.

Well, we lost to the Buccaneers, so I really don't think the Bengals have any room to talk.

[forfreelin04]

Don't frown. Reds' baseball's just two months away! :evil: :devil:

Spring Training Champions!

[George Foster]

It has nothing to do with the Bengals. The Jets have no talent, they benefited from a soft schedule, and slipped into the playoffs because of it.

I am not even sure if they are an average football team.

Seriously, this team lost to Cleveland.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the Bengals. They had their destiny in their own hands the last two weeks and blew it. They gave a chance to the Jets and they won the game they had to win. Next week will be a joke. The Radiers will not even show up. They want that 1st pick in the draft.

[George Foster]

Well, we lost to the Buccaneers, so I really don't think the Bengals have any room to talk.

Point well taken!

[traderumor]

It has nothing to do with the Bengals. The Jets have no talent, they benefited from a soft schedule, and slipped into the playoffs because of it.

I am not even sure if they are an average football team.

Seriously, this team lost to Cleveland.

As good as time as any for a step on to the soapbox. The NFL's "parity" scheduling method needs to go. It is patently unfair to have unbalanced schedules based on prior year performances. All teams should be given similar schedules, not the playoff teams from the prior year drawing the top of the non-division and non-conference games in the following year.

[George Foster]

As good as time as any for a step on to the soapbox. The NFL's "parity" scheduling method needs to go. It is patently unfair to have unbalanced schedules based on prior year performances. All teams should be given similar schedules, not the playoff teams from the prior year drawing the top of the non-division and non-conference games in the following year.

I agree. The Bengals playing New England, New Orleans, Colts, Denver, San Diego is brutal. But when you go 1-4 against these teams and lose to Tampa, you have to depend on Plunkett starting for the Raiders on Sunday:laugh:

[macro]

As good as time as any for a step on to the soapbox. The NFL's "parity" scheduling method needs to go. It is patently unfair to have unbalanced schedules based on prior year performances. All teams should be given similar schedules, not the playoff teams from the prior year drawing the top of the non-division and non-conference games in the following year.

But there are only two games per season that are based on the previous year's finish. Fourteen of the sixteen games are already set for all NFL teams through the 2009 season.

[guttle11]

But there are only two games per season that are based on the previous year's finish. Fourteen of the sixteen games are already set for all NFL teams through the 2009 season.

But even that's horribly wrong. If you finish first or fourth, you should get a first and last place team in those games. If you finish second or third, you should get a second and third place team.

Last place teams should have to earn their way back to the top, not be given mediocrity.

[traderumor]

But there are only two games per season that are based on the previous year's finish. Fourteen of the sixteen games are already set for all NFL teams through the 2009 season.When the playoffs come down to the final week, you can see how those two games unfairly swing the schedule in favor of the perennial mediocre team, or the upstart team. Add to that it unfairly penalizes teams that happen to play in a tough division like the AFC North, and you have inequity that could be resolved by doing everything they can to make similar strength schedules.

[macro]

But even that's horribly wrong. If you finish first or fourth, you should get a first and last place team in those games. If you finish second or third, you should get a second and third place team.

Last place teams should have to earn their way back to the top, not be given mediocrity.

I hadn't thought about it that way, but you have a point. But the idea of "helping out" the last-place finishers while "punishing" the division winners was developed by Pete Rozelle back in the 70s. It has worked well for the league. At least there are only two games a year that are based on that these days.

Back in the days of 28 teams, the system you speak of was used for games within the conference. First-place teams played the first- and fourth-place teams in the other two divisions within the conference. In total, six games per season were determined by the previous year's finish.

[forfreelin04]

But even that's horribly wrong. If you finish first or fourth, you should get a first and last place team in those games. If you finish second or third, you should get a second and third place team.

Last place teams should have to earn their way back to the top, not be given mediocrity.


I disagree I think that's the beauty of the NFL system. It keeps the great teams on top of their game and gives the lowly teams a chance to make the playoffs if they play above average.

Last year, the Bengals had a great schedule, the Ravens were injured on defense and lacked a mistake free quarterback, and they played the NFC North (playing Minnesota in the midst of the Loveboat incident, Green Bay the guy running on the field to take the ball away from Farve, the Bears quarterback woes, and Matt Millens Detroit Lions speak for themselves). Not to mention, wasn't their a controversial call at the end of the Texan game last year? All these factors played into the Bengals favor and they capitalized.

This year not as many situtations favored the Bengals extrinsically, but they played and coached poorly enough to make those situations even worse. The Tampa loss being a big one, the terrible first quarter at Baltimore, the second half collapse versus San Diego, the terrible game plans versus the Colts and the Falcons, and the lack of execution against a worse team at Denver. The only loss that was truly a loss was the one to New England and that was the given "let down" game. The only win where I felt they truly played a complete game was the 30-0 Browns beating. In KC, they benefited from the loss of Trent Green, they didn't play very well against the Steelers but still won, they lucked out against Carolina, they didn't play that well against a bad Raiders team, Drew Brees threw all over them at NO, they benefited from a bit of trickery against the Ravens, and in the first Browns game they lost their center and their linebacker for the rest of the season. All of these things compiled leads me to believe that the Bengals don't deserve to be in the playoffs because they didn't capatalize on opportunities to win. The Jets have for most of the year. Hats off to them!

[guttle11]

This year not as many situtations favored the Bengals extrinsically, but they played and coached poorly enough to make those situations even worse.

I think coaching is overrated. Talent is just as important. IMO an easy schedule can trump a lot of poor play and coaching. The only reason the Jets are in the playoff race is their schedule, there's no two ways about it.

Hats off to them for doing what was placed in front of them, I just don't think it's really fair that a team can have a schedule like that. There's way too big a gap under the current scheduling system.

I'm not just talking about the Bengals. The Jags deserve to go over the Jets, IMO. They beat them 41-0 and had a tougher schedule.

[WMR]

I do and that's what matters. Besides I know, at least, 1 other poster that does. I don't care about UK basketball or Bengal football, but it doesn't concern me if you do. Have a great day.

Actually what matters is that this is a Bengals thread. If you want to talk about Vince Young and the indomitable Tennessee Titans, start a thread about them.

You'll notice I and everyone else keeps respective discussions, whether it be about the foibles of Tubby Smith or the inherent evilness of Ohio State, in their respective threads.

Thank you for wishing me a great day. Good day to you as well.

[forfreelin04]

I think coaching is overrated. Talent is just as important. IMO an easy schedule can trump a lot of poor play and coaching. The only reason the Jets are in the playoff race is their schedule, there's no two ways about it.

Hats off to them for doing what was placed in front of them, I just don't think it's really fair that a team can have a schedule like that. There's way too big a gap under the current scheduling system.

I'm not just talking about the Bengals. The Jags deserve to go over the Jets, IMO. They beat them 41-0 and had a tougher schedule.

I'm going to totally agree with you on the Jets schedule. I had thought they beat some legit teams besides NE. After looking at the schedule, you are absolutely right. But, keep in mind, the Bengals had an easy schedule last year too which benefited them in getting to the playoffs and winning the division. I mean what was their toughest game last year: Indy at home, at Jacksonville, at Steelers? They won only one of those. This year the schedule demanded some improvement. I think it is obvious they have gotten worse thanks to injuries this year, the off the field problems, and bad schemes and play calling. Of course, I attribute most of the problems this year to a lack of execution by the players, but coaching played a big role.

I cannot agree with you on coaching in football being overrated. I think in some instances your agrument is certainly viable. Peyton Manning for example would probably thrive under any coach or the fact that Marvin has yet to improve the Bengals defense when he had such a great defense in Baltimore. Certainly, the Ravens defensive players far trump the Bengals in this category.

But..... I point towards the game plan and play calling. In baseball, your arguement holds weight. Since all the manager does is set the lineup, choose pitchers to pitch, and has certain control over situations such as bunting, stealing, or the occasional infield shift. But, in football, it's different. The coach is inside the quarterback's helmet calling alot of the plays. The coaches also draw up the plays. Especially, on the defensive side of the ball, the coach decides how to match up with that offense. Manning, himself, couldn't believe the Bengals game plan. It was like Jerry Narron playing his entire defense on the warning track so teams don't hit homeruns in GABP. In football, you have to play to the strengths of your team. Any idiot would have realized the reason why the Jags walloped the Colts was they have cut back runners. Rudi is, nor never has been, this. This was a flaw in COACHING. Also, how many times do the Bengals throw an incompletion on first down and then run the ball on second down? My guess is you've probably seen that alot. That's predictable play calling. The Broncos became wise to this and started putting more men in the box on second down after an incompletion. Dave Lapham pointed this out midway through the game and the Bengals continued to do it! This is bad coaching!!!

Finally, coaching is not overrated in football because the coach is supposed to make his great players better and his average players great. A great example is OSU. John Cooper terrible coach, but did he have talent Wow!! That is not to say that the Tressel coached teams are not talented, but he won a championship with Craig Krenzel! He may win another championship with yet another quarterback that probably won't even sniff the first round of the draft! That's good coaching...... I know its college, but its unlikely good coaching just disappears in the pros.

[guttle11]

I'm going to totally agree with you on the Jets schedule. I had thought they beat some legit teams besides NE. After looking at the schedule, you are absolutely right. But, keep in mind, the Bengals had an easy schedule last year too which benefited them in getting to the playoffs and winning the division. I mean what was their toughest game last year: Indy at home, at Jacksonville, at Steelers? They won only one of those. This year the schedule demanded some improvement. I think it is obvious they have gotten worse thanks to injuries this year, the off the field problems, and bad schemes and play calling. Of course, I attribute most of the problems this year to a lack of execution by the players, but coaching played a big role.

I cannot agree with you on coaching in football being overrated. I think in some instances your agrument is certainly viable. Peyton Manning for example would probably thrive under any coach or the fact that Marvin has yet to improve the Bengals defense when he had such a great defense in Baltimore. Certainly, the Ravens defensive players far trump the Bengals in this category.

But..... I point towards the game plan and play calling. In baseball, your arguement holds weight. Since all the manager does is set the lineup, choose pitchers to pitch, and has certain control over situations such as bunting, stealing, or the occasional infield shift. But, in football, it's different. The coach is inside the quarterback's helmet calling alot of the plays. The coaches also draw up the plays. Especially, on the defensive side of the ball, the coach decides how to match up with that offense. Manning, himself, couldn't believe the Bengals game plan. It was like Jerry Narron playing his entire defense on the warning track so teams don't hit homeruns in GABP. In football, you have to play to the strengths of your team. Any idiot would have realized the reason why the Jags walloped the Colts was they have cut back runners. Rudi is, nor never has been, this. This was a flaw in COACHING. Also, how many times do the Bengals throw an incompletion on first down and then run the ball on second down? My guess is you've probably seen that alot. That's predictable play calling. The Broncos became wise to this and started putting more men in the box on second down after an incompletion. Dave Lapham pointed this out midway through the game and the Bengals continued to do it! This is bad coaching!!!

Finally, coaching is not overrated in football because the coach is supposed to make his great players better and his average players great. A great example is OSU. John Cooper terrible coach, but did he have talent Wow!! That is not to say that the Tressel coached teams are not talented, but he won a championship with Craig Krenzel! He may win another championship with yet another quarterback that probably won't even sniff the first round of the draft! That's good coaching...... I know its college, but its unlikely good coaching just disappears in the pros.

I agree with you, my point is that I don't think you can put one above the other. It's why I don't buy the Jets being more disciplined and better coached stance some people have taken. I find it hard to believe they'd be anywhere close to the playoffs with the Bengals, Jaguars, or Chiefs schedule. But...rules are rules and them's the breaks.

If the Jets win next Sunday, congrats. I'll wish them the best of luck. However, Go Raiders!

[forfreelin04]

I agree with you, my point is that I don't think you can put one above the other. It's why I don't buy the Jets being more disciplined and better coached stance some people have taken. I find it hard to believe they'd be anywhere close to the playoffs with the Bengals, Jaguars, or Chiefs schedule. But...rules are rules and them's the breaks.

If the Jets win next Sunday, congrats. I'll wish them the best of luck. However, Go Raiders!

Sorry for taking it the wrong way. I agree with you anyone who loses to the Browns does not deserve a shot in the playoffs! Sorry Browns fans..... go Phil Dawson! Go Raiders! And also you might want to cheer for the 49ers (against Broncos) and the Cheifs versus Jags. The second playoff scenario might actually be more likely than the first.

[Oxilon]

I don't understand how rooting for the 49ers (Broncos losing) makes a difference. If the Broncos lose next weekend, they'll have the same record as us. But since they beat us, they'll hold any tiebreaker over us. So, isn't our only chance of getting into the playoffs lie in the Raiders' hands?

[Hoosier Red]

But if the Broncos lose and the Chiefs win, they lose the tie breaker to the chiefs who in turn lose the tie breaker to the Bengals.

[Red Leader]

The NFL definitely needs a BCS-like system. :p:

[TeamBoone]

I read the the other day that that assumption came from some blog site after someone witnessed Carson, in practice, acting like his shoulder was injured. It seems he was play acting (goofing off) with guys in practice, and he says his shoulder is fine.

Unless of course there is some new development that I haven't heard of.

Maybe so, but he was listed as "probable" due to shoulder on the injury report.

[macro]

But if the Broncos lose and the Chiefs win, they lose the tie breaker to the chiefs who in turn lose the tie breaker to the Bengals.

That's right! Wildcard tiebreakers between more than two teams are settled within the division first. If KC and Denver tie, then KC wins that tiebreaker out of the AFC West and then "face" the Bengals for the final tiebreaker, which the Bengals would win. It's all a mute point, though, because SF ain't gonna go into Denver and win.

[GAC]

Maybe so, but he was listed as "probable" due to shoulder on the injury report.

So Carson lied when asked about it during practice, and when he laughed and said his shoulder was fine, knowing he could be listed as "probable" due to said shoulder?

[traderumor]

So Carson lied when asked about it during practice, and when he laughed and said his shoulder was fine, knowing he could be listed as "probable" due to said shoulder?The injury report is not reliable at all for determining a player's health. Coaches play games with it all the time.

[TeamBoone]

So Carson lied when asked about it during practice, and when he laughed and said his shoulder was fine, knowing he could be listed as "probable" due to said shoulder?

I don't claim to know what he was thinking (or said... I didn't hear it). All I know is what the injury report said pregame.

[Dom Heffner]

It's all a mute point, though, because SF ain't gonna go into Denver and win.


They weren't supposed to go into Seattle and win, either.

The Niners aren't that bad.

[Doc. Scott]

They weren't supposed to go into Seattle and win, either.

The Niners aren't that bad.

I also wouldn't call the Niners "good". "Better than Oakland" is about as far as I can go until Alex Smith starts producing something. SF is also missing the suspended Antonio Bryant from its passing game.

I do, however, like KC's chances to beat Jacksonville. That one's something of a coinflip.

[WVRed]

I also wouldn't call the Niners "good". "Better than Oakland" is about as far as I can go until Alex Smith starts producing something. SF is also missing the suspended Antonio Bryant from its passing game.

I do, however, like KC's chances to beat Jacksonville. That one's something of a coinflip.

Frank Gore is pretty good.

[Dom Heffner]

I went back and looked at their schedule. They are pretty bad, actually.

I think I let Frank Gore being good turn into the "Niners are good."

Not the case.

They beat the Seahawks twice, which says more about the state of football in Seattle than it does about the Niners.

[Tony Cloninger]

That easy schedule for bad teams really worked well for the Bengals back in the late 70's-80's and most of the 90's when it was a 4 team division.

They never got the benefit of an easy schedule.

You would see bad teams in 1 division play the other bad team in another divsion AND within the same conference twice. Like if SD finished last....they would play IND twice that year....while bypassing the strongest teams in the other 2 divisions within that conference. They would also get to play the last place team in the other Conference (Like usually the Bucs or Falcons.

Not the Bengals beacuse of that 4 team divsion.

Heck......the worst thing that ever happened was being stuck in a division with PITT.

Why wasn't PITT/PHI/BAL in the same divsion after the merger?

How did CIN ever get stuck with PITT and HOU?

I guess it is kind of like CHI and STL wanting to be together in the same divisions in baseball after 1968.