Game Thread---Jays at Reds 3/12/07

[membengal]

The line-ups from C. Trent:

Jays, eh?
Clayton SS
Hill 2B
Overbay 1B
Glaus 3B
Zaun C
Thigpen DH
Griffin LF
Mottola RF
Duncan CF

Redlegs
Freel CF
Gonzalez SS
Phillips 2B
Dunn LF
Encarnacion 3B
Conine DH
Hatteberg 1B
Valentin C
Denorfia RF

No Hamilton. I have progressed with him this spring to the point at which that makes me sad.

[wheels]

That Trent guy........

Is his first name just.....C.?

[Grounds_Crew]

Sweet, I was just getting ready to make this thread because I had not seen one made yet.

[Jaycint]

Any radio today?

[robmadden1]

It's Just a webcast today.

[TRF]

Good. I like Steve Stewart. I'll at least know what's happening in the game and not where he went to dinner last night.

[TOBTTReds]

Good. I like Steve Stewart. I'll at least know what's happening in the game and not where he went to dinner last night.

I like that there are no commercials and you just get to listen to the PA announcer and the beer guys.

[TRF]

mmmm beer.

I like a nice Corona on a warm day. with chips and a good salsa.

[edabbs44]

Phillips 3rd? That's odd...

[Joseph]

That Trent guy........

Is his first name just.....C.?

My first name is D.

Well not really, but I go by D. Joseph.

[cincy09]

Overbay on 1st
2 down in the 1st

[Grounds_Crew]

Is anyone going to do play by play today for those of us at work?

[cincy09]

1-3 put out

0-0 mid 1

[NJReds]

Phillips 3rd? That's odd...

How about Clayton leading off for the Jays...could you imagine the game thread had that happened with Cincinnati. It was bad enough that he was starting.

[cincy09]

Freel lines one to center for a lead off single

[robmadden1]

Play by Play is nice because I dont have a credit card or debit card to buy a subscription to Gameday.

[NJReds]

Belisle pitching for the Reds today.

[cincy09]

Seabass k's (i think)

[cumberlandreds]

Thanks for any PBP. It does make the afternoon go by faster. :)

[cincy09]

B Phillips chops to 3rd
Freel was running and safe at 2nd bp safe at 1st on the FC

[cincy09]

Dunn lines one to center Freel scores
1-0 redlegs

[membengal]

Ya know, Dunn has been stinging the ball pretty well this spring. Plenty of singles, for those who like such signs of scrappiness...

[cincy09]

Dunn with 6 rbi's on the spring

[cincy09]

EE flies to left
2 out

[registerthis]

Ya know, Dunn has been stinging the ball pretty well this spring. Plenty of singles, for those who like such signs of scrappiness...

Dunn's just a Judy hitter.

[cincy09]

Conine lines out to 1st

1-0 reds after 1 full

[cincy09]

I'm not going to be a ble to do pbp all day.

Prob just updates know and then if anyone wants to jump in feel free

[oneupper]

Zaun flies out to Deno in RF. One out.

[oneupper]

Belilse Ks Pigpen Looking.

[oneupper]

Ford grounds to 2B. Middle Second. 1-0 reds

[cincy09]

Top 2

FO
K
Go

1-0 mid 2

[registerthis]

Belisle on pace for a no hitter through two innings.

I'm excited.

[oneupper]

Hatteberg Ks. One out.

[oneupper]

Belisle on pace for a no hitter through two innings.

I'm excited.

Don't be. Toronto left their best hitters at home.

[oneupper]

Javier Valentin walks.

[registerthis]

Don't be. Toronto left their best hitters at home.

Thanks for bursting my balloon.

[oneupper]

Deno gets a hit through the middle. 1st and 2nd.
Hopper to hit for Freel.

[oneupper]

Hopper hits one to the pitcher. 1-4-3. Inning over.

[Always Red]

Denorfia moves above the Mendoza line with that hit...

[oneupper]

Chad Mottola who is very much remembered by REDS fans...
Ks looking.

[LincolnparkRed]

Javier Valentin walks.

at least he got on base, not warming my heart as he has been talked about as our first PH of the bench. Other than batting from both sides what does he bring to the table? Other than the obviously great mustache

[membengal]

Freel's quick lift noted, wondering what the reason was.

Stewart hasn't heard anything as of yet.

C. Trent gonna be with Stewart in the fourth or fifth inning area of the game, Stewart hoping he will have heard somthing he can share by then.

[oneupper]

Duncan(?) Ks on a changeup...

[membengal]

Belisle appears to be dealing...

[oneupper]

Clayton grounds out to his counterpart at SS.
Mid 3rd 1-0.

[oneupper]

Phillips gets on with a bad hop chopper to third. BAse hit.

[Chip R]

Other than batting from both sides what does he bring to the table? Other than the obviously great mustache


Like he needs anything else. The stache is enough.

[oneupper]

Dunn pops one to third in foul territory. Two out.

[edabbs44]

Ya know, Dunn has been stinging the ball pretty well this spring. Plenty of singles, for those who like such signs of scrappiness...

He should be walking instead of getting hits. ;)

A good start for the big guy...hopefully he has a more consistent season this year.

[oneupper]

EE takes a four pitch walk. The threat of Conine was not enough for Chacin.

[oneupper]

Conine flies to LF. End of 3 1-0 REds

[oneupper]

Belisle still in.
Hill bloops one to RF. There goes the no-no.

[oneupper]

Freel with a tight hammy.

[oneupper]

Overbay grounds into a 4-6-3.
Stewart says "that was smooth".

[oneupper]

Glaus grounds out to third. Scary throw by EE, but Hat saves him.

[Chip R]

They got Overbay out? About time.

[oneupper]

Hatteberg get on when Mottola drops a fly.

[oneupper]

Valentin grounds out to third. Hat to 2nd.

[oneupper]

Deno flies out to the track in RF. Hat to third.

[oneupper]

Hopper (in for the injured Freel) lines a hit into CF. 2-0 REDs.

[TRF]

<giddy>Did Belisle pitch 4 innings of 1 hit 3 K ball?</giddy>

[oneupper]

Gonzalez safe when Glaus' throw pulls Overbay off the bag. Two on, Two out.

[edabbs44]

Deno flies out to the track in RF. Hat to third.

I heard there are hurricane force winds blowing in today... :)

[oneupper]

Phillips flies out to RF. 2-0 REDS after 4.

[Chip R]

I heard there are hurricane force winds blowing in today... :)


Are you implying that Deno can't hit it out against hurricane force winds? :confused:

[membengal]

<giddy>Did Belisle pitch 4 innings of 1 hit 3 K ball?</giddy>

He did indeed. Similarly pleased.

[oneupper]

Janish and Castro in to play....no sure where.

Weathers in to pitch. Castro at SS. Janish at 2B.

[pedro]

<giddy>Did Belisle pitch 4 innings of 1 hit 3 K ball?</giddy>

I'd sure like to see him bump Milton from the rotation.

[Team Clark]

Are you implying that Deno can't hit it out against hurricane force winds? :confused:

Dude's got a couple of rakes... he's bringing it today. Must have heard us talking about Hamilton as the new Superhero in town. Even Capt America got whacked recently....

[oneupper]

Zaun pops one to Janish.

[TRF]

I'd sure like to see him bump Milton from the rotation.

amen!

in fact, I'd like as 3-4-5 in no particular order:

Belisle
EZ
Saarloos

Milton just gone and Lohse as a power righty setup guy.

[oneupper]

Thigpen the DH (not Pigpen as previously reported) lines one to Janish, now turned into a ball magnet.

[Chip R]

Thigpen the DH (not Pigpen as previously reported) lines one to Janish, now turned into a ball magnet.


Dang! I thought we were playing against Charlie Brown's team.

[oneupper]

John Ford Griffin (the THIRD) lines another one...where else..to Janish.

[oneupper]

New pitcher for Jays. A Markham person.

Dunn Ks.

[oneupper]

EE pops one up to Clayton. Two down.

[oneupper]

Conine works a full count and walks.

[edabbs44]

Are you implying that Deno can't hit it out against hurricane force winds? :confused:

Category 5 only.

[oneupper]

Bellhorn running for Conine at first.
Hatteberg flies out to CF. 2-0 after 5.

[membengal]

This game is flying by.

Do the Reds retain any credibilty with the fan base if Paul Wilson actually makes this team and starts games in April/May?

[oneupper]

More changes.
Hermanson in to pitch.
Votto in at first. Gil in somewhere also.

[oneupper]

Crosby in at LF. Gil at 3B.

[oneupper]

Mottola Ks.

[oneupper]

Duncan drags a bunt. Hermanson dives at the runner and gets him. Two out.

[TRF]

That sounded like one heckuva play.

[GSURedsfan]

Hi guys, just a quick question.....why would they use the DH if the game is in Sarasota? is this some sort of Spring Training quirk that was mutually agreed upon by the two teams?

Brent

[oneupper]

Clayton chops one to Gil who fires it to first. mid 6th. 2-0 RED men.

[membengal]

It was mutally agreed upon to get some extra ABs for each team.

Chad Mott is still the suck, isn't he? Yeesh.

[oneupper]

That sounded like one heckuva play.

I've heard better. :D

[membengal]

Nice professional inning for Hermanson right there. If he shows himself to be remotely healthy in terms of his back, I bet they keep him.

[Tornon]

Ray Ray now playing SS for Toronto!

[GSURedsfan]

If I remember correctly, Mottola seems like he's been around forever.

[membengal]

C. Trent now in the booth with Stewart.

[oneupper]

Rey rey in at SS for the Jays.
Valentin pops up one to Glaus. One out.

[flyer85]

Nice professional inning for Hermanson right there. If he shows himself to be remotely healthy in terms of his back, I bet they keep him.hopefully they at least make him pitch April in AAA and prove he is somewhat healthy under normal(not just spring training and warm weather ) conditions.

He did not have his back "fixed". He declined the surgery because it likely would have ended his career. So back issues are something he will have to deal with for the rest of his career.

[membengal]

C. Trent in 17 seconds is already 1,000,000 times more entertaining than John Fay...

[TRF]

Nice professional inning for Hermanson right there. If he shows himself to be remotely healthy in terms of his back, I bet they keep him.

monetarily, he's low risk, high reward.

baseball wise, he's a bigger risk, but IF he's healthy, well he's only 34.

Now if only they would jettison Cormier.

[oneupper]

Deno fighting to avoid being stereotyped as a AAAA player, does something I didn't hear about...

[oneupper]

Hopper knocks in Deno with a gap shot...3-0 REDS.

[membengal]

How dare they try and throw out Deno at home? They should know better than that.

C. Trent "aggressive base-running right there. Nice hook slide under the throw".

[GSURedsfan]

hopefully they at least make him pitch April in AAA and prove he is somewhat healthy under normal(not just spring training and warm weather ) conditions.

I wouldn't make him pitch a whole month down there....I don't know about you guys, but I don't feel real safe with Weathers and Stanton until Guardado gets back. I agree with giving Dustin maybe a few games in the 'Ville, but that's about it

[oneupper]

Castro pops out to 2B. Two out.

[membengal]

Now talking about the Natural, C. Trent would like to "write that book." Says the talent is impossible to miss.

C. Trent says no longer a debate, Hamilton is on the roster, he'll be there all year.

[oneupper]

Janish lines on to third. 3-0 REDS after 7.

[membengal]

Sadly, C. Trent's half inning is done. Wish he would stick around, good stuff from him.

[oneupper]

Santos in to pitch.
Wise in RF for Deno.

[oneupper]

Hill lines a hit to right center.

[membengal]

Am I the only one that loathes Kiss's "Rock and Roll All Night"?

C. Trent hung around for one more question, talking about Belisle's chances at the rotation..."He has a shot. A legitimate shot."

[flyer85]

I wouldn't make him pitch a whole month down there....I don't know about you guys, but I don't feel real safe with Weathersand Stanton until Guardado gets back. I agree with giving Dustin maybe a few games in the 'Ville, but that's about itHermanson is Weathers lite. Basically the same pitcher, his 30+ save season was fueled by a sub 25&#37;(fluky) BABIP. His pERA was 3.86 in 2005, almost 2 runs higher than his real ERA.

Since he has a bad back that isn't going away every day could be his last. His is low risk from an investment standpoint but extreme high risk from a health standpoint.

PECOTA is bearish on Hermanson in 2007 5.05 ERA and 1.46 WHIP in a little under 50 innings.

[oneupper]

Overbay grounds into a 4-6 forceout.

[GSURedsfan]

Smith retired, one down, runner on first, Glaus batting

[membengal]

C. Trent still thinks Saarloos is favorite for 5th spot, but notes he can swing between the long spot and 5th spot. Thinks if Belisle isn't the 5th starter, he would be better off pitching every fifth day in Lousiville as a starter.

Sadly, C. Trent says Paul Wilson continues to be relevant. My soul remains wounded...

[Caveat Emperor]

C. Trent hung around for one more question, talking about Belisle's chances at the rotation..."He has a shot. A legitimate shot."

If they were giving out starting rotation shots based on talent, he would be the 3rd or 4th starter on this team -- and the only thing that determines which slot he is in is how good Saarloos is.

[OesterPoster]

Hill lines a hit to right center.

Deno would have caught it. :D

[oneupper]

Glaus chops one to third 5-4-3. Inning over.

[GSURedsfan]

Inning ending 5-4-3....Stretch Time, Folks

[OesterPoster]

C. Trent hung around for one more question, talking about Belisle's chances at the rotation..."He has a shot. A legitimate shot."

Hopefully it's not a legitimate shot of cortisone in his back.

[membengal]

Sadly, now C. Trent really is done chatting about the team for the day. Good work from him with Stewart. Better stuff from him in 7 minutes than in an off-season of Hot Stove Shows...

[Doc. Scott]

C. Trent still thinks Saarloos is favorite for 5th spot, but notes he can swing between the long spot and 5th spot. Thinks if Belisle isn't the 5th starter, he would be better off pitching every fifth day in Lousiville as a starter.


It really seems like Belisle would be out of minor-league options by now, but I have seen in the Enquirer that he has one option year remaining. Is there a more reliable source somewhere that states that?

[oneupper]

Bubba (is his stalker fan here?)...pops up one to the catcher

[GSURedsfan]

Crosby Fouls out to Fasano, 1 down

[GSURedsfan]

Gil strikes out looking

[oneupper]

The Gil person with the good arm and the bad plate discipline Ks looking.

[Doc. Scott]

I think the BubbaFan has made himself scarce lately after everyone showered him with disdain. I sort of participated in this.

I don't want BubbaFan to go away, necessarily, but it would be nice to see him show himself to be a reasonably normal human being (inasmuch as any of us are).

[oneupper]

Bellhorn Ks swinging.

[GSURedsfan]

Bellhorn goes down on a check swing, I think he's sealed his fate....

[texasdave]

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2007/02/options-and-like.asp

Here's the option list, direct from a Reds' release: "The following players on the 40-man roster have minor league options remaining: pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby Livingston, Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock, Eric Milton, Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Salmon, Brian Shackelford and Mike Stanton; infielders Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez, Jeff Keppinger and Joey Votto; and outfielders Jeff Conine, Chris Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr., Josh Hamilton and Norris Hopper."

Basically, the Reds can send any of those players to minors without risking losing them. But anyone with five years' service time can refuse the option. Hamilton is a special case because he's a Rule 5 pick. The Reds must keep him on the 25-man roster or offer him back to Tampa Bay for $25,000, half what they paid to pick him.

for what it's worth

[oneupper]

Fasano grounds out to short.
Thigpen Ks. Two out.

[Strikes Out Looking]

I miss not hearing from the Bubbaloon!

[oneupper]

Griffin Ks. REDS up 3-0 Mid 8th. I skipped an inning somewhere.

Must be "Baseball savings time".

[flyer85]

Burton is also a Rule 5 draftee.

[PuffyPig]

Hamilton is a special case because he's a Rule 5 pick. The Reds must keep him on the 25-man roster or offer him back to Tampa Bay for $25,000, half what they paid to pick him.

for what it's worth

Since Hamilton seems to like in here, I'm surprised that the Reds and Hamilton haven't worked out a deal which allows him to go to the minors. Would benefit both the team and Hamilton I would think.
;)

[oneupper]

Votto eh? Ks looking.

[GSURedsfan]

The 3rd Catcher Singles

[oneupper]

Moeller (in for Valentin)...hits one up the middle.

[oneupper]

Take over, GSU...Carpal Tunnel kicking in here.

[GSURedsfan]

Moeller screws up with a base running mistake, doubled off first, headed to the top of the 9th, Reds 3 Birds of the North, 0

[GSURedsfan]

Burton Pitching the 9th, Mottola Batting

[GSURedsfan]

Mottola walks on 5 pitches

[paulrichjr]

Since Hamilton seems to like in here, I'm surprised that the Reds and Hamilton haven't worked out a deal which allows him to go to the minors. Would benefit both the team and Hamilton I would think.
;)

He can't do that. It is a major league rule that says.... Ok I just couldn't resist....Where have you gone Wily Mo?

[flyer85]

Since Hamilton seems to like in here, I'm surprised that the Reds and Hamilton haven't worked out a deal which allows him to go to the minors. Would benefit both the team and Hamilton I would think.
;)they can't do that without passing him through waiver first.

[oneupper]

Diaz Ks
Olmedo Ks (Mottola steals second)
Smith grounds to second.

Game over 3-0 REDS.

[Doc. Scott]

they can't do that without passing him through waiver first.

Yes they can! Look what they did with Wily Mo! ;)

[Always Red]

I'd like to see Burton stick, too. Does he have a chance? or does he have to go back to Oakland if the Reds do not keep him?

[Sea Ray]

Yes they can! Look what they did with Wily Mo! ;)

Two different situations. Wily Mo was out of options. Josh is a rule 5 guy which means he's never been optioned down

[Doc. Scott]

Two different situations. Wily Mo was out of options. Josh is a rule 5 guy which means he's never been optioned down

You might want to note the emoticon on my post, there, brother.

[Sea Ray]

The only way we can send Josh to the minors is if we work out a deal with TB. Or if we keep him all year in Cin then we can send him down next year.

Actually he's playing very well, he's already 26 years old, I'm fine keeping him in Cin

[Sea Ray]

Duly noted

[Doc. Scott]

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/redsinsider/2007/02/options-and-like.asp

Here's the option list, direct from a Reds' release: "The following players on the 40-man roster have minor league options remaining: pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby Livingston, Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock, Eric Milton, Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Salmon, Brian Shackelford and Mike Stanton; infielders Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez, Jeff Keppinger and Joey Votto; and outfielders Jeff Conine, Chris Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr., Josh Hamilton and Norris Hopper."

Basically, the Reds can send any of those players to minors without risking losing them. But anyone with five years' service time can refuse the option. Hamilton is a special case because he's a Rule 5 pick. The Reds must keep him on the 25-man roster or offer him back to Tampa Bay for $25,000, half what they paid to pick him.

for what it's worth


That five years' refusal clause always seems to get overlooked, doesn't it? But thanks for posting this.

http://baseball.about.com/od/lesserknownrules/a/transactionrule.htm

I've never found an explanation of the options system consistently understandable before locating the link above. Even though you don't use an option year in a year you're on the big-league roster the whole time, that part gets left out in most explanations. For a good long while I legitimately thought that option years started when you got on the 40-man and ticked by for the next three years whether they got used or not.

Without knowing that point, I would have guessed that guys like Keppinger, Ramirez, Belisle, and Shackelford would be out. But now I see.

Anyone else struggle with this in a similar way?

[Matt700wlw]

Milton still has minor league options? Didn't know that...

[Doc. Scott]

Milton still has minor league options? Didn't know that...

...but he can refuse to be sent down because he has five years' MLB service time. So if the Reds can talk him into doing it, he could go without the frightening specter of him being available on waivers.

[Dracodave]

I think the BubbaFan has made himself scarce lately after everyone showered him with disdain. I sort of participated in this.

I don't want BubbaFan to go away, necessarily, but it would be nice to see him show himself to be a reasonably normal human being (inasmuch as any of us are).

We all have our favorites and judging on this person's age (if they are younger than me (I am 23)) then I really dont mind the obsessive nature. They simply put don't know any better yet.

And yes we can all show disdain and be rough on people at times. Some deserving and some not. *shrugs*

Look at the bright side, at least Bubba has a one loyal fan! :thumbup:

[Joseph]

A nice team WHIP of .44 that game.

[texasdave]

Devo - the original sabermetricians - WHIP it good!

[corkedbat]

...but he can refuse to be sent down because he has five years' MLB service time. So if the Reds can talk him into doing it, he could go without the frightening specter of him being available on waivers.

If he refuses his assignment, does it void his contract and make him a free agant? (Didn't think so) :angry:

I'd love to see us work out a deal with the A's for Burton. Don't they owe us a PTBNL? Speaking of which, did we ever receive anything from KC for Lash?

[Joseph]

If he refuses his assignment, does it void his contract and make him a free agant? (Didn't think so) :angry:

I'd love to see us work out a deal with the A's for Burton. Don't they owe us a PTBNL? Speaking of which, did we ever receive anything from KC for Lash?

Yes they still owe us a PTBNL [Oakland]. The even money is that it will be Burton.

To my knowledge, nothing has come from KC for LaRue either.

[GSURedsfan]

I believe Keppinger was the PTBNL, but don't quote me on that.

[Puffy]

I believe Keppinger was the PTBNL, but don't quote me on that.

Whoops - sorry!

[TRF]

I thought Keppinger came from KC not Oakland. Anyone got the official transaction?

[KoryMac5]

Burton will be on the roster he has great stuff two more K's for him. Salmon has definitely spawned and is heading to AAA. Santos continues to wheel and deal. We have some really live young arms in the pen it is time to fish or cut bait Wayne.

[GSURedsfan]

I thought Keppinger came from KC not Oakland. Anyone got the official transaction?

I meant he came from KC....sorry for the confusion

[11larkin11]

A couple guys I've liked so far this spring that may not start the year on the team, although I would like to see them up here instead of others...

Keppinger-Castro (I know, hes hurt, but he looked good)
Burton-Cormier
Livingston-Milton
EZ-Lohse

Ideally, this is what I would want

Harang
Arroyo
Saarloos
Livingston
EZ

Weathers
Stanton
Bray
Burton
Coffey
Belisle
Salmon

(I would put switch Belisle and Livingston, but we need a lefty in the rotation)
(Maj in for the worst bullpenner when he returns ONLY AT 100&#37;!)
Dunn
Freel
Griffey
Encarnacion
Gonzalez
Phillips
Hatteberg
Ross

Keppinger
Hamilton
Conine (STRICTLY 1B PLATOON, NO OF!)
Denorfia
Valentin