3-24 Reds vs. Phillies - Griffey Starting in RF

[Tom Servo]

per trent:


SARASOTA — Batting fourth and playing right field, Ken Griffey Jr.

Jerry Narron said Griffey would get two or three at-bats today and he'd try to play him in as many games as possible betwen now and opening day.

Reds
Ryan Freel CF
Adam Dunn LF
Brandon Phillips 2B
Ken Griffey Jr. RF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Joey Votto 1B
Alex Gonzalez SS
David Ross C
Bronson Arroyo P

Phillies
Michael Bourn RF
Shance Victorino CF
Wes Helms 3B
Ryan Howard 1B
Pat Burrell LF
Rod Barajas C
Abraham Nunez SS
Brent Abernathy 2B
Adam Eaton P


Here's what Jerry had to say:

"I asked him if he was ready. He said he was ready."
(does he have enough time left to get ready for season) "I sure hope
so."
(how many ABs today) "Two or three. We'll see where he is after that.
We'll see how the game goes."
(how much will be play these last 8 days) "We'll see where he is after
he plays. We'll see how his wrist responds. He won't play in all the
games."
(is it easy to move to RF) "I've never been an outfielder, so I really
can't say, but if you can play, you can play."

[cincy09]

minus Votto it looks very close to what the opening day lineup could look like.

[jmac]

Good to see Jr back in there !

[NatiRedGals]

Griffey to play vs. Phillies today
Slugger will play right in his first Grapefruit action this spring
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

SARASOTA, Fla. -- Ken Griffey Jr. will make his spring debut for the Reds on Saturday against the Phillies.

Griffey will bat fourth and play right field.

The 37-year-old had missed all 22 of Cincinnati's previous exhibition games while he recovered from a broken left hand. He suffered the injury in December while wrestling with his three children.

Originally expected to be ready for the start of camp in February, Griffey's rehabilitation has been a slower process than expected. He began taking batting practice a couple of weeks ago but continued to have lingering soreness.

Throughout camp, Reds manager Jerry Narron left Griffey's playing status up to the slugger. Saturday was no different, but the answer was.

"I asked him if he was ready," Narron said. "He said he was ready."

Griffey will likely get two or three at-bats on Saturday, Narron indicated.

If Griffey hadn't started playing in the next few days, the club was considering placing him on the disabled list to begin the regular season. Now the question is if the 12-time All-Star can get ready in time for Opening Day.

"We'll see how he is, how he feels and how the wrist responds," Narron said.

If all goes well, Griffey will likely see a lot of action in the final week of Spring Training.

"I'm sure he won't play in all the games," Narron. "I hope for him to play as many as he possibly can."

Narron announced on Monday that Griffey would be shifted from center field -- his position for all 18 of his big-league seasons -- to right field. Griffey said earlier this week that he was fine with the decision and that it had been made a month ago behind the scenes.

Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070324&content_id=1857239&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

[IamWallaman]

I really like this lineup. Only nitpick would be to switch EdE and Phillips.

[NatiRedGals]

I really like this lineup. Only nitpick would be to switch EdE and Phillips.

Dont worry Openning Day:beerme: is on the way :)

[mth123]

minus Votto it looks very close to what the opening day lineup could look like.

Toobad. If Votto stayed and Hatteberg became a bench player, the team would only have pitching to worry about. Of course when Hatte returns we could see him at number 2 with Dunn moving into Votto's spot.

[Redsland]

Wow. Nice Lineup. :thumbup:

[Heath]

Gonna have to miss this one. It's sunny here in Dayton.

[flyer85]

minus Votto it looks very close to what the opening day lineup could look like.
with Votto it would be a good opening day lineup

[Matt700wlw]

Griffey's going long today.

[edabbs44]

Griffey's going long today.

Long like 2 innings?;)

[Matt700wlw]

Those Phillie uniforms look goofy

[Matt700wlw]

Long like 2 innings?;)

Maybe :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Bourn strikes out looking to start the game.
Victorino lines a single to center.

[Matt700wlw]

Phillips shaken up

[Reds Fanatic]

Looks like Phillips may have hurt himself diving for Victorino's single.
He is staying in the game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Helms lines a single to left. 1st and 3rd.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice job by Bronson on Howard

[Reds Fanatic]

Howard strikes out swinging. 2 outs.
Burrell strikes out swinging. Arroyo srikes out the side. 0-0 mid 1st.

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel doubles to right on the first pitch.
Dunn singles to left center. 1-0 Reds.

[TeamCasey]

I have to admit giggling like a kid everytime they say Dick Pole.

[TeamCasey]

Freel scores!

[Matt700wlw]

Dunn! Nice!

So Un-Dunn like!

:clap:

[Matt700wlw]

"He's come UnDunn.."

[oneupper]

:eek: Dunn with the single to left center.:eek:

[VR]

Reds/ Red Sox on ESPN Monday. It will be nice to see my first game of the year :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips grounds into a 4-6-3 DP.

[Matt700wlw]

Welcome back, Griffey!

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior singles to center. Welcome back Junior.

[oneupper]

Phillips grounds into a 4-6-3 DP.

I'm already missing Jr in the 3 hole :p:

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion beats out and infield single. 1st and 2nd.
Votto stikes out swinging. 1-0 Reds after 1.

[Reds Fanatic]

Top 2nd.
Barajas flies out to center. 1 out.
Nunez lines a single to right.

[membengal]

Chris Welsh's comment on Votto needing to shag flies because 1b was occupied may have been one of the single dumbest comments I have ever had the misfortune of hearing...

[Matt700wlw]

What does Brook Jacoby have to say on TV?

Give me a full report!! :D

[Reds Fanatic]

Abernathy strikes out swinging. 4 K's for Arroyo.

[Matt700wlw]

Lenny Harris, according to Thom, is working for the Nationals.


Does this shock anyone?

[Reds Fanatic]

Bronson ends the inning with his 5th K of the game. 1-0 Reds mid 2nd.

[pahster]

Chris Welsh's comment on Votto needing to shag flies because 1b was occupied may have been on the single dumbest comments I have ever had the misfortune of hearing...

...yeeeeeah, pretty much.

[Tom Servo]

Phillips grounds into a 4-6-3 DP.
This is why BP can't bat too high in the lineup, too many Casey's.

[oneupper]

What does Brook Jacoby have to say on TV?

Give me a full report!! :D

Jacoby makes an awful interviewee. Very short answers, would probably like to say yes or no if he could.

Didn't say too much. Said he's trying to gain the players' trust before trying new things with them.

About Dunn he said something about Dunn's foot and getting square. Sounded like he's not trying to mess too much with him.

Sounded like a no-nonsense guy. The players will like him...the press is going to hate him.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bottom 2nd.
Gonzalez leads off with a walk.
Ross pops out to 2nd.

[Matt700wlw]

Bronso!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Bronson bunts back to the pitcher and Eaton throws the ball into center. 1st and 2nd on the error.
Freel lines out to left. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn homers to center. 4-0 Reds!!

[Matt700wlw]

:dunn:

:jump:

[membengal]

If John Fay is right, and Dunn is put in the 6th hole at times this year with A-Gonz behind him for "protection", I may run amuck.

That was a shot.

[TeamCasey]

Adam Bomb!

[Matt700wlw]

Back2Back

:jump:

[Reds Fanatic]

Back to back homers. A long homer to center for Phillips. 5-0 Reds!!

[oneupper]

That one left in a hurry!

[membengal]

And, geez, Phillips just crushed one too.

[OnBaseMachine]

Dunn is awesome.

Phillips homer! Back-to-back! 5-0 Reds.

[Grounds_Crew]

I just jumped into this thread...is this game on tv, radio, etc?

[OnBaseMachine]

I just jumped into this thread...is this game on tv, radio, etc?

Fox Cincinnati, channel 638.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior flies out to the edge of the warning track in right. 5-0 Reds after 2.

[Matt700wlw]

Griffey gave it a shot....but not quite enough.

[oneupper]

MLB.tv

[flyer85]

Dunn really looks different. Shorter swing(hands don't go back at all) and quicker which allows him to wait longer and let the ball get deeper.

[Matt700wlw]

Bronson Arroyo fields his position well

[Grounds_Crew]

Fox Cincinnati, channel 638.


I'm in Pittsburgh bro'seph, so that's a no go for me. I'm going to have to purchase MLB.tv. For anyone that actually has it, can you describe it for me?

Does it have good quality? Can I enlarge the video or does it only give me the option to watch a small window? Thanks ahead of time.

[Reds Fanatic]

Top 3rd.
Bourn grounds out to 2nd. Good play by Phillips and Arroyo covering 1st.
Victorino flies out to right.
Helms grounds out to 3rd. 5-0 Reds mid 3rd.

[Cigar2]

I just jumped into this thread...is this game on tv, radio, etc?

Yep,

It's on TV Dish Network ch.427. That's where we get the Welsh remark about Votto needing to take shag flies out in the outfield. :rolleyes:

[dougdirt]

That right there was the reason Votto needs to work on his defense. He strays from the bag into the hole on balls he shouldnt.

[Matt700wlw]

Griffey catches the ball

[oneupper]

Nice play with Phillips going to his left and tossing it to Arroyo.

[Matt700wlw]

That looked easy

[OnBaseMachine]

Dunn really looks different. Shorter swing(hands don't go back at all) and quicker which allows him to wait longer and let the ball get deeper.

Indeed he does. I love how he just went with the pitch and dropped it into leftcenter for a single in his first atbat. He looks great at the plate. I think he is poised for a MVP type season.

[dougdirt]

Indeed he does. I love how he just went with the pitch and dropped it into leftcenter for a single in his first atbat. He looks great at the plate. I think he is poised for a MVP type season.

Lets hope so, that would help this offense greatly if someone could carry it for a while :thumbup:

[OnBaseMachine]

Yep,

It's on TV Dish Network ch.427. That's where we get the Welsh remark about Votto needing to take shag flies out in the outfield. :rolleyes:

That really was a dumb remark, wasn't it? Why in the heck would Joey Votto move to the outfield where we already have Dunn, Griffey, Freel, Bruce, and Hamilton. To make room for Hatteberg and Conine?:rolleyes:

[Matt700wlw]

Indeed he does. I love how he just went with the pitch and dropped it into leftcenter for a single in his first atbat. He looks great at the plate. I think he is poised for a MVP type season.

I give him credit so far for trying to become a better player.

[TeamCasey]

Dick Pole ...... hehehehehehe

[Reds Fanatic]

Bottom 3rd.
Encarnacion flies out to right.
Votto breaks his bat and grounds out to 1st.

[pahster]

I'm in Pittsburgh bro'seph, so that's a no go for me. I'm going to have to purchase MLB.tv. For anyone that actually has it, can you describe it for me?

Does it have good quality? Can I enlarge the video or does it only give me the option to watch a small window? Thanks ahead of time.

You can watch it in a small window or full screen. It looks reasonably good. If you buy the premium package, you can get a higher quality picture along with several other features. This is the fourth year I've had it, and it gets progressively better every year. I'd say its worth it unless you live within the boundaries of the Reds broadcasting territory (which you don't).

[Matt700wlw]

Why doesn't he go by Richard?

[flyer85]

That really was a dumb remark, wasn't it? I assume your question is rhetorical

[Tom Servo]

I think he is poised for a MVP type season.
I've been telling anyone who will listen the same thing, I'd love to see it happen.

[oneupper]

Pole really likes the way Hermanson is throwing.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez walks for the 2nd time today.

[Matt700wlw]

JB giving Brook Jacoby props for the disciplined batting Reds

[OnBaseMachine]

Alex Gonzalez has two walks today. Good to see.

[flyer85]

Pole really likes the way Hermanson is throwing.supposedly we will get our chance to see him today. I sure hope he is throwing harder than 84-86. Bronson was above 90 and Eaton 93-94 so it isn't a slow gun.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ross grounds into a 6-4 fielder's choice. 5-0 Reds after 3.

[Reds Fanatic]

Top 4th.
Howard grounds out to 2nd.

[OnBaseMachine]

Arroyo looks very good today despite not using the curveball much.

[Reds Fanatic]

Burrell walks.
Barajas bloops a single to left. 1st and 2nd.

[Grounds_Crew]

You can watch it in a small window or full screen. It looks reasonably good. If you buy the premium package, you can get a higher quality picture along with several other features. This is the fourth year I've had it, and it gets progressively better every year. I'd say its worth it unless you live within the boundaries of the Reds broadcasting territory (which you don't).

Hey, thanks for the headsup. I was planning on buying it anyway, but you just sealed the deal for me. The crappy thing is, I work for the Pirates...but I ALSO WORK for MLB.com/MLB Advanced Media. MLB Advanced Media basically controls everything that you see on MLB.com, even the audio and video coverage. I can't even get it for free or on discount, haha. Go figure!

[Reds Fanatic]

Nunez grounds into a 4-6-3 DP. 5-0 Reds mid 4th.

[OnBaseMachine]

Nice DP turn by Phillips and Gonzalez.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bottom 4th
Arroyo strikes out swinging.
Freel strikes out looking.
Dunn flies out to center. 5-0 Reds after 4.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice DP turn by Phillips and Gonzalez.

We may as well get used to that.

[Reds Fanatic]

Top 5th
Abernathy grounds out to 2nd.

[KoryMac5]

Just turned on the game, finally some offense I see. Love the lineup by the way.

[Reds Fanatic]

Eaton singles to left.
Braun flies out to center. 2 outs.
Victorino grounds out to 2nd. 5-0 Reds mid 5th.

[Matt700wlw]

When Bronson is on...he's almost unhittable

[Reds Fanatic]

Bottom 5th
Phillips leads off with a single to center.
Junior grounds into a 4-3 DP.

[reds44]

Observations from today:

Brandon Phillips looks good.
Bronson looks good.
Dunn looks real good. I think that was the first time seeing him hit an RBI single to left field.
Griffey looks odd in RF, not that I am complaining. Good to see him playing.
Seabass has two walks. Good to see.
Phillips and Seabass is a really good MIF.

Grande is as annoying as ever.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion triples to right.

[reds44]

EE triples!

Nice camera work, or not.

[reds44]

Dice K is pitching on Monday against us.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto walks. 1st and 3rd.
Pitching change.
Clay Condrey in to pitch.

[GOREDSGO32]

Just give us the pennant now. We're going to finish first in the NL in spring training, its all but a given we are going to the World Series.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto steals 2nd. 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs.
Gonzalez grounds out to 2nd. 5-0 Reds after 5.

[Reds Fanatic]

Top 6th
Helms strikes out looking. 6 K's for Arroyo.
Howard lines out to 2nd.
Burrell flies out to center. 5-0 Reds mid 6th.

[Matt700wlw]

This Arroyo guy is pretty good

[edabbs44]

If John Fay is right, and Dunn is put in the 6th hole at times this year with A-Gonz behind him for "protection", I may run amuck.

Dunn can't hit 6th. It would be a travesty.

[Matt700wlw]

Hamilton to hit for Arroyo.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bottom 6th
Ross grounds out to 3rd.
Hamilton pinch hits and grounds out to 2nd.
Freel grounds out to short. 5-0 Reds after 6.

[jojo]

Just give us the pennant now. We're going to finish first in the NL in spring training, its all but a given we are going to the World Series.

Listening to Chris and George today and you'd think it was a pennant race game...

Arroyo has the heart of a warrior.....

Freel has the heart of a warrior....

Player X has the heart of a warrior....

You can tell them not to go all out but it's impossible to keep these from going all out..... yadda yadda yadda...


I'm sooooooooooooooo ready for opening day....

[Reds Fanatic]

Top 7th
Hamilton stays in to play center, Moehler in to catch.
Santos in to pitch.
A ground out to 3rd starts the inning
Nunez with a soft line out to 1st. 2 outs.

[jojo]

Freel as the everyday CF......tweaked hammy..... heart of a warrior.....

[Reds Fanatic]

Abertathy fouls out to 3rd. 5-0 Reds mid 7th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bottom 7th
Fabio Castro in to pitch.
Dunn grounds out to 2nd.
Phillips doubles to left center. 3 hits for BP today. Phillips is thrown out at 3rd trying to make it a triple.

[OnBaseMachine]

I really wish Phillips wouldn't have tried for that extra base. No need to risk the injury this late in the spring.

[Matt700wlw]

Griffey!

[jojo]

I really wish Phillips wouldn't have tried for that extra base. No need to risk the injury this late in the spring.

heart of a warrior.... :cool:

[OnBaseMachine]

Griffey looked good today for someone who hasn't played all spring.

[Reds Fanatic]

Nice hit by Junior as he doubles down the right field line.
Wise pinch running for Junior.
2 for 4 for Junior in his first game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion singles to center. 6-0 Reds!
Janish pinch running for EE.

[Matt700wlw]

Eddie's had a good day

[Matt700wlw]

JB: "If we get 3 guys with 100 RBIs, we go to the playoffs"

[Grounds_Crew]

Nice hit by Junior as he doubles down the right field line.
Wise pinch running for Junior.
2 for 4 for Junior in his first game.



That's some good Sheeit right there! Attta boy Junior!

[OnBaseMachine]

EE is a stud. I expect 25-30 homers and 40 doubles from him this season.

Though he struckout, Votto did a nice job of working the count from 0-2 to 3-2 in that atbat.

[Reds Fanatic]

Votto strikes out swinging. 6-0 Reds after 7.

[Reds Fanatic]

Top 8th.
Coffey in to pitch.
Not sure who was up but Coffey strikes them out swinging to start the inning.
Braun grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.
Victorino flies out to left. 6-0 Reds mid 8th.

[Matt700wlw]

Machado's .158 Batting Average will look good not on the big squad

[Reds Fanatic]

Bottom 8th
Brito in to pitch
Machado grounds out to first.

[Matt700wlw]

Moeller!!

:jump:

[Reds Fanatic]

Moeller homers to left. 7-0 Reds!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Hamilton grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

[jojo]

Hamilton grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

His SLG has now dipped below .600 and his BA is heading toward the .300's...

[Reds Fanatic]

Bellhorn singles to left.
Godwin grounds out to end the inning. 7-0 Reds after 8.

[edabbs44]

His SLG has now dipped below .600 and his BA is heading toward the .300's...

Not surprising, since he was on a ridiculous pace.

It is now time for him to make necessary adjustments to justify his place on the roster for the full year.

[OnBaseMachine]

His SLG has now dipped below .600 and his BA is heading toward the .300's...

Did you expect him to continue hitting around .500? I didn't.

[Reds Fanatic]

Top 9th
Hermanson in to pitch.
Dobbs leads off with an infield single.

[jojo]

Not surprising, since he was on a ridiculous pace.

It is now time for him to make necessary adjustments to justify his place on the roster for the full year.

I think he's already justified 25th man status..... it looks like he can play atleast league average defense in center and he's fast and the reds really have little organizational depth....

While i'd take Denorfia over Hamilton from a win now standpoint, I think Hamilton's defense/speed makes him a better choice than Wise or Hopper... really Hamilton has to lay a huge turd with his bat to change that IMHO....

[Reds Fanatic]

Garcia flies out to center. 1 out.
Werth grounds into a 3-6 fielder's choice. 2 outs.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice slider

[Reds Fanatic]

Wathan flies out to center. Reds win 7-0.

[Tom Servo]

Anyone know what Hermanson's hitting on the radar gun?

[Matt700wlw]

As long as his back isn't bothering him, he's the closer.....like it or not.

[VR]

His SLG has now dipped below .600 and his BA is heading toward the .300's...

.423

[jmac]

Not surprising, since he was on a ridiculous pace.

It is now time for him to make necessary adjustments to justify his place on the roster for the full year.

Is he making outs more ? Yes.
But he still does not appear to be over-matched. Last night an out produced a run plus a couple of hard hit balls.

[pedro]

Anyone know what Hermanson's hitting on the radar gun?

The "off" button? ;)

[ochoa30]

.423

Plus he is hitting the ball hard while remaining patient and playing good defense. He hasnt slumped at all except for the fact that his liners are being caught.

[jmac]

Plus he is hitting the ball hard while remaining patient and playing good defense. He hasnt slumped at all except for the fact that his liners are being caught.

Bingo !

[Matt700wlw]

I guess Junior's ok.

Hasn't played all spring, goes 2 for 4 and didn't miss a beat.

[flyer85]

The "off" button? ;)He didn't throw many fastballs(th foxgun was off), which is not a good sign. he was throwing almost all sliders and splitters.

[Heath]

Moeller homers to left. 7-0 Reds!!

Its crap like this that will cloud the management's thinking on this matter.

[jojo]

.423

Thanks for verifying that his BA is heading toward the .300's!!!!!!!!!


:rolleyes:

[membengal]

His SLG has now dipped below .600 and his BA is heading toward the .300's...

That's not exactly a newsflash jojo that he wouldn't hit .600 all year...

[jojo]

That's not exactly a newsflash jojo that he wouldn't hit .600 all year...

But this isn't *the year* and he isn't facing guys that are even throwing all of their pitches....

I personally think spring training stats mean absolutely nothing but I'm very curious about the opinions of those who weigh them more heavily......

Specifically, some people want to give him a starting job or at least ALOT of at bats when the season starts.....I'm just wondering this-if his 17 for 29 during early spring was enough to justify that in some people's minds, what do those people think about his recent 5 for 23 against pitching that is only slowly and vaguely starting to resemble major league quality. It's a serious/honest question....

[BEETTLEBUG]

I Missed It What Did Hamilton Do Today And What Is He Batting? Did Freel Hurt His Self And Come Out?

[Tommyjohn25]

I Missed It What Did Hamilton Do Today And What Is He Batting? Did Freel Hurt His Self And Come Out?

Hamilton was 0-2 with two groundouts. Freel is fine, just gave him a breather.

I just got finished watching todays game and I gotta say, I don't hate how Hermanson pitched at all. I know it's spring but his ball moves pretty well and he seems to have good command. I may be in the minority but I'm a bit more optimistic about him after getting the opportunity to see him for the first time this spring.

[lollipopcurve]

I'm just wondering this-if his 17 for 29 during early spring was enough to justify that in some people's minds, what do those people think about his recent 5 for 23 against pitching that is only slowly and vaguely starting to resemble major league quality. It's a serious/honest question

I think Hamilton should be on the team and get at least 250ABs. If an outfielder gets hurt, I put him in a platoon with Deno or Hopper with occasional starts vs lefties too. I'd be real patient with his development because I think he has big-time talent. I'd let him try to play through slumps because I think he has a solid chance to be a very good player in the next 1-2 years.

A statistical update alerting us that he soon won't be hitting .400, based on a a couple of groundouts, seems kind of pointless and weirdly self-congratulatory. Are we going to be alerted about every statistical deceleration Hamilton undergoes from here till the end of ST?

I'd be more interested in your projection of him as an offensive player, jojo. Do you think he's worth trying to develop as a starter by 08? How many ABs do you give him in 07? Do you let him play through tough stretches in order to gain reps and improve, or do you sit him quickly based on an assumption that he won't get much better?

Anybody can relay his numbers. What do you think of him as a rookie outfielder on a team that very well may be minus Griffey and Dunn after 2008?

[mth123]

[QUOTE=jojo;1272851I personally think spring training stats mean absolutely nothing but I'm very curious about the opinions of those who weigh them more heavily...... [/QUOTE]

I think you are mistaken about people thinking that spring stats mean much but in this particular case they do mean a little more than normal:

1. Hamilton has a 4 year hole in his resume. After such a long absence I think the expectations were that he wouldn't even know which end of the bat to hold and no one even dreamed he would do this.

2. If rust was the major issue, the stats in Spring are at a minimum an indication that his game is still in working condition. With the layoff you would think that he would struggle more in the beginning than at any other time.

3. When Hamilton went in the dumper 4 years ago, the D-Rays were on the verge of jumping him all the way to the big leagues anyway, so maybe readiness isn't as much an issue as we're making it out to be. He was considered a once in a generation player when he was drafted and there have been rare cases of guys who went straight to the big leagues and were successful (Al Kaline comes to mind).

4. I'm not sure anyone really thinks there won't be times that his lack of ABs over the last 4 years won't lead to him being fooled and looking bad from time to time, but these stats at the least indicate that the skill is still there.

5. As far as playing time goes, the team is dreadfully short in all areas and needs a lightening strike to get up to snuff. Chris Denorfia can be a nice player but even if he reaches his best projection, he'll be a good defender who can contribute on offense. The same, it seems, is what Ryan Freel is. Hamilton could be the lightening strike that can propel the offense to a new level. Do I think its likely? No, I don't. But given how he has hit, I let him play until he stops hitting and see what happens.

As for the spring stats, under normal circumstances I don't think they mean a thing. Brandon Phillips isn't going to be a 30 HR guy, Aaron Harang isn't going to be dog meat, and Victor Santos is not going to go an entire season without giving up a run. These guys have a track record and we know what they'll probably do under regular season conditions. Hamilton, on the other hand, may have had a lot of problems that are his fault, but he hasn't really failed on the field yet. If its my team, he plays until he does for a reasonably extended period.

[jojo]

I think Hamilton should be on the team and get at least 250ABs. If an outfielder gets hurt, I put him in a platoon with Deno or Hopper with occasional starts vs lefties too. I'd be real patient with his development because I think he has big-time talent. I'd let him try to play through slumps because I think he has a solid chance to be a very good player in the next 1-2 years.

A statistical update alerting us that he soon won't be hitting .400, based on a a couple of groundouts, seems kind of pointless and weirdly self-congratulatory. Are we going to be alerted about every statistical deceleration Hamilton undergoes from here till the end of ST?

I'd be more interested in your projection of him as an offensive player, jojo. Do you think he's worth trying to develop as a starter by 08? How many ABs do you give him in 07? Do you let him play through tough stretches in order to gain reps and improve, or do you sit him quickly based on an assumption that he won't get much better?

Anybody can relay his numbers. What do you think of him as a rookie outfielder on a team that very well may be minus Griffey and Dunn after 2008?

Search for my posts about Hamilton...i've been crystal clear about my thoughts concerning him and this season....they've been consistent, fair, and more substantitive than relaying a boxscore. By the way, none of them root for his failure (as the very quote you responded to illustrates)...

[jojo]

But given how he has hit, I let him play until he stops hitting and see what happens.

You make some good points as usual but....

How has he hit though....that's the point.... he's had a stretch of 29 sucessful at bats that were really against batting practice quality pitching and a stretch of 23 at bats that weren't that successful as the quality of pitching has begun to inch higher....

Despite those stellar 29 at bats, his SLG is inching closer and closer to his OBP... That's the huge problem with ST...the stats don't mean anything so you're left with trying to interpret the performance of a guy that has the tools in the box. Having the tools though doesn't mean you can build the house.

I'm not questioning his pedigree, I'm questioning the unbridled optimism that leads to your quote below...


If its my team, he plays until he does for a reasonably extended period.

You're basically suggesting you'd let him start framing your dream home until he's proven that he really can't read a blueprint. If it takes a month to determine he's not going to play through a slump, you've spent almost 20% of your season without your best lineup on the field.... That's a very risky approach to take concerning roster management. The Reds have so many question marks with so many things that need to break their way in order to win the division that they really can't afford to assume the type of risk you're suggesting...

I think Hamilton's spring proves this much..... he's a better option as the 25th man than Hopper or Wise.

[mth123]

How has he hit though....that's the point.... he's had a stretch of 29 sucessful at bats that were really against batting practice quality pitching and a stretch of 23 at bats that weren't that successful as the quality of pitching has begun to inch higher....

Despite those stellar 29 at bats, his SLG is inching closer and closer to his OBP... That's the huge problem with ST...the stats don't mean anything so you're left with trying to interpret the performance of a guy that has the tools in the box. Having the tools though doesn't mean you can build the house.

I'm not questioning his pedigree, I'm questioning the unbridled optimism that leads to your quote below...



You're basically suggesting you'd let him start framing your dream home until he's proven that he really can't read a blueprint. If it takes a month to determine he's not going to play through a slump, you've spent almost 20% of your season without your best lineup on the field.... That's a very risky approach to take concerning roster management. The Reds have so many question marks with so many things that need to break their way in order to win the division that they really can't afford to assume the type of risk you're suggesting...

I think Hamilton's spring proves this much..... he's a better option as the 25th man than Hopper or Wise.

Its not really unbridled optimism. Its actually quite the opposite. I view this team this way:

The Reds of 2007 are like a football team that is behind by a touchdown, with the ball on its own 40 and only time for one more play. Now there are lots of plays in the playbook. There's the nice little running play that's always good for about 6 yards (Freel) and the nice little pass accross the middle that frequently moves the chains (Denorfia), but given the situation, those plays, even if successful, don't net a victory. A shot at the end zone is required now. Hamilton is that shot. Its a low percentage play, but at least now I know from practice (i.e. spring training) that the skill is there for it to work. If it falls incomplete, the team loses the same as it would have had it called the nice run or the short pass over the middle. Prior to practice (spring training) I didn't even know if the QB had the arm strength to try such a play. Seeing that in practice makes it an option that I wasn't sure was available before. Now its the option I choose because its the only chance to win in my mind.

For what its worth, the same reasoning applies to giving the young guys a shot in the bullpen and benching Hatte and Conine in favor of Votto. I know that the known quantities aren't going to get it done. Some might be ok, but they aren't good enough to make up for other shortcomings. The team needs to find a few of those now.

[jojo]

Its not really unbridled optimism. Its actually quite the opposite. I view this team this way:

The Reds of 2007 are like a football team that is behind by a touchdown, with the ball on its own 40 and only time for one more play. Now there are lots of plays in the playbook. There's the nice little running play that's always good for about 6 yards (Freel) and the nice little pass accross the middle that frequently moves the chains (Denorfia), but given the situation, those plays, even if successful, don't net a victory. A shot at the end zone is required now. Hamilton is that shot. Its a low percentage play, but at least now I know from practice (i.e. spring training) that the skill is there for it to work. If it falls incomplete, the team loses the same as it would have had it called the nice run or the short pass over the middle. Prior to practice (spring training) I didn't even know if the QB had the arm strength to try such a play. Seeing that in practice makes it an option that I wasn't sure was available before. Now its the option I choose because its the only chance to win in my mind.

For what its worth, the same reasoning applies to giving the young guys a shot in the bullpen and benching Hatte and Conine in favor of Votto. I know that the known quantities aren't going to get it done. Some might be ok, but they aren't good enough to make up for other shortcomings. The team needs to find a few of those now.


Nice analogy but I'd argue there is actually more time on the clock. It's very possible that 85 games will be enough to win the division. IMHO, what the NFL Reds really need is a sustained drive from their offense.... and some help from their defense (i.e. pitching)....

[mth123]

Nice analogy but I'd argue there is actually more time on the clock. It's very possible that 85 games will be enough to win the division. IMHO, what the NFL Reds really need is a sustained drive from their offense.... and some help from their defense (i.e. pitching)....

I hope you're right, but I think the defense is dreadful and the offense needs to be a quick strike wonder to make up for it.