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Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 12:57 PM
Lineup:
Phillips 2B
Hamilton CF
Dunn LF
Griffey RF
Encarnacion 3B
Hatteberg 1B
Valentin C
Castro SS
Harang P

Cubs Lineup:
Soriano- CF
Theriot - 3B
Jones- RF
Lee- 1B
Barrett- C
Floyd- LF
Cedeno- 2B
Izturis- SS
Zambrano

Grounds_Crew
04-13-2007, 12:58 PM
I was going to post this thread...but I figured it would get locked or bashed on because the Chicago Cubs lineup isn't available yet. Oh well!

Harangatang vs Zambrano, Round 2! As most of you predicted, no Freel but rather Castro in the lineup.


EDIT: 3 lefties in a row against big Z!

CySeymour
04-13-2007, 01:00 PM
Seems odd Narron putting 3 straight lefties 2,3 and 4 since he has been advocating breaking them up since spring training.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:01 PM
I just glad Castro isn't batting clean up :)

fisch11
04-13-2007, 01:01 PM
Gonzalez's 7 month old son, Johan is ill, so that's why he's gone.

-Per Trent

Also, Aramis Ramirez is supposedly scratched (if so, rejoice)....seeing a hand specialist due to swelling. Waiting for Chicago lineup...

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:02 PM
I was going to post this thread...but I figured it would get locked or bashed on because the Chicago Cubs lineup isn't available yet. Oh well!



I wasn't even going to make this thread but it's an hour before the game and no one else had posted it yet so I said what the heck I'll do it.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:03 PM
Rich Hill is pitching tomorrow

forfreelin04
04-13-2007, 01:03 PM
Two things:
1. Why does Narron preach having a set lineup then constantly fiddles with it as the year goes by?

2. Aramis not in the lineup? Thank heaven!

PuffyPig
04-13-2007, 01:04 PM
Seems odd Narron putting 3 straight lefties 2,3 and 4 since he has been advocating breaking them up since spring training.

Zambrano is real tough on righties, so Narron is getting all the LH hitters he can into the linup. Hard to break up 5 LH hitters, especially when one of the RH hitters has to hit 8th.

He could have flip flopped Hamilton and Phillips, and EE and Griffey, but you still end up with 3 LH hitters in a row later on.

edabbs44
04-13-2007, 01:05 PM
I wonder if Freel got Denoed. You know...get handed a starting spot, not rip it up immediately and then get banished? Not to say I'm not in agreement, I'm just sayin'.

How long until the Hamilton/Junior/Freel/Dunn game of musical chairs turns into the Kearns/WMP/Junior/Dunn situation where guys start complaining and getting dealt? I'm gonna say soon...

fisch11
04-13-2007, 01:06 PM
More rumors from Chicagoland....DeRosa out with a stiff back as well.

Grounds_Crew
04-13-2007, 01:07 PM
Also, Aramis Ramirez is supposedly scratched (if so, rejoice)....seeing a hand specialist due to swelling. Waiting for Chicago lineup...


I'm not one to wish harm upon another man...unless it's Osama Bin Laden, haha...but I'm sure hope you're right about Aramis. He KILLS the Reds.

haylo2403
04-13-2007, 01:07 PM
I know the game isnt being shown on FSN today or tomorrow but am I right in seeing that its not being shown on WGN today and tomorrow also!?

steig
04-13-2007, 01:09 PM
I'm surprised to see hamilton batting 3rd, only two big league starts and he's already in the 3 spot.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:09 PM
I know the game isnt being shown on FSN today or tomorrow but am I right in seeing that its not being shown on WGN today and tomorrow also!?

WGN isn't showing either of the games.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:10 PM
I'm surprised to see hamilton batting 3rd, only two big league starts and he's already in the 3 spot.

He's batting 2nd.

fisch11
04-13-2007, 01:10 PM
I know the game isnt being shown on FSN today or tomorrow but am I right in seeing that its not being shown on WGN today and tomorrow also!?

Comcast.

haylo2403
04-13-2007, 01:10 PM
That makes sense, who would wanna see Harang vs. Zambrano anyway?

:angry:

haylo2403
04-13-2007, 01:11 PM
I live in Columbus and am not sure if comcast is available, anyone know?

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:13 PM
Cincinnati (5-4) at Chi Cubs (3-5)
By LAURA MEDINA, STATS Writer

Josh Hamilton took nearly eight years to make it to the major leagues. Now that he has arrived, Hamilton hopes his stay will last -- even if the Cincinnati Reds don't have an open spot in the outfield.

After homering in each of the past two games, Hamilton hopes to remain in the starting lineup when the Reds visit the Chicago Cubs on Friday in the opener of a three-game series at Wrigley Field.

For now, Hamilton might not have a regular place in an outfield that consists of Adam Dunn, Ryan Freel and Ken Griffey Jr.

"Josh has got a good chance of playing somewhere," Reds manager Jerry Narron said. "We've got to get him on the field. The spring he had and the at-bats he's having right now, he looks like he belongs here."

Hamilton appears to be finally living up to his promise after Tampa Bay selected him first overall in the 1999 draft. After a minor-league career that was interrupted by a drug suspension, Hamilton became available in the Rule 5 draft. The Cubs acquired Hamilton before trading him to Cincinnati for cash on Dec. 7.

All three of Hamilton's hits in his nine at-bats have gone for extra bases, and he has walked three times. Hamilton went 2-for-4 as the Reds (5-4) ended a three-game losing streak with a 3-2 win on Wednesday at Arizona.

"It's still hard for me to describe how fun it is to be here," Hamilton said. "I mean, I'm just so happy to have an opportunity."

Hamilton might play Friday behind right-hander Aaron Harang (2-0, 3.55 ERA), who seeks to win a career-high sixth straight decision.

Harang is 5-0 with a 3.05 ERA in his five starts since Sept. 19, beating the Cubs for the second time in that stretch in the season opener at Great American Ball Park on April 2. He allowed an unearned run, six hits and two walks while striking out five in seven innings to outduel Carlos Zambrano in a 5-1 win, and the Reds went on to take two of three in the series.

Harang enters the rematch with Zambrano after having his worst start in this streak. Harang gave up five runs and eight hits while striking out six in 5 2-3 innings in the Reds' 7-5 win over Pittsburgh on Saturday.

Harang is 6-1 with a 3.82 ERA in 10 starts against the Cubs (3-5), winning his last two appearances in Chicago.

Zambrano makes his first start of the year at Wrigley Field, where he was 7-6 with a 3.75 ERA in 19 starts last season, with the hopes of helping Chicago avoid losing its first three home games for the first time since 1997.

The Cubs lost two games with Houston -- and three straight overall -- before Wednesday's game was washed out.

"It's not bad to have one off day to organize yourself a little bit and acclimate yourself, relax a little bit," Cubs first-year manager Lou Piniella said.

The Cubs hope Zambrano (1-1, 6.00) can build off Saturday's 6-3 win at Milwaukee, where he allowed three runs and five hits while striking out six in six innings.

Zambrano fell to 8-6 with a 3.06 ERA in 22 appearances against Cincinnati after surrendering all five runs and six hits in five innings in the opener.

Dunn hit two homers in that game to increase his career total to six against Zambrano -- the most the right-hander has given up to any hitter. Dunn's 30 homers in 89 career games against the Cubs are his most against any team and his 17 at Wrigley are his most in an opposing ballpark.

Griffey has hit .389 (7-for-18) with two homers and five RBIs against Zambrano, but Freel has batted .188 (3-for-16) with four strikeouts.

Reds third baseman Edwin Encarnacion will return to the lineup after he was benched for not running out a pop fly in the first inning of Wednesday's game.

Cubs first baseman Derrek Lee has batted .424 (14-for-33) while hitting safely in all eight games this season. Lee has hit .360 (9-for-25) with two homers and four RBIs against Harang.

Chicago went 5-4 against Cincinnati at Wrigley Field last season.

Grounds_Crew
04-13-2007, 01:13 PM
I wonder if it will be blacked out on MLB.tv

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:14 PM
I live in Columbus and am not sure if comcast is available, anyone know?

I'm wondering the same thing I really hope they don't black the game out.

Grounds_Crew
04-13-2007, 01:16 PM
I have Comcast here in Pittsburgh, and it's no on up here either. It doesnt matter because I wont get to watch it anyway, because I'm actually leaving now to head to PNC Park.


Cheater, Cheater, Pumpkin eater is in town this weekend and it's a bobble head night. So, the crowd will be thick.


Take care guys, and GO REDS!

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:19 PM
I have Comcast here in Pittsburgh, and it's no on up here either. It doesnt matter because I wont get to watch it anyway, because I'm actually leaving now to head to PNC Park.


Cheater, Cheater, Pumpkin eater is in town this weekend and it's a bobble head night. So, the crowd will be thick.


Take care guys, and GO REDS!

I have a friend who went up to Pittsburgh for that game.

Reds Fanatic
04-13-2007, 01:19 PM
I'm wondering the same thing I really hope they don't black the game out.
The game is on Extra Innings and MLB.TV but if you are in the Reds home territory you will be blacked out.

oneupper
04-13-2007, 01:22 PM
I wonder if Freel got Denoed. You know...get handed a starting spot, not rip it up immediately and then get banished? Not to say I'm not in agreement, I'm just sayin'.



Narron only Denos (or EdEs?) players under 30.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:22 PM
It says the Reds game is coming on Comcast on my TV guide thingy and on Extra Innings. Some times Extra innings is blacked out so hopefully Comcast will be showing it too just in case.

Grounds_Crew
04-13-2007, 01:26 PM
I have a friend who went up to Pittsburgh for that game.



I'll be working in Guest Relations tonight, so with a thick crowd, me might be busy with complaints and such. I wonder how many people will come in complaining of an enormous head in left field! :mooner:

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:28 PM
Just heard, Johan Gonzalez has been hospitalized and is in critical condition. Best wishes to the Gonzalez family right now.

I hope his son gets better.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:30 PM
I'll be working in Guest Relations tonight, so with a thick crowd, me might be busy with complaints and such. I wonder how many people will come in complaining of an enormous head in left field! :mooner:

I'm sure you'll have a few mothers complaining about how Barry is a bad influence

jmac
04-13-2007, 01:34 PM
I hope his son gets better.

Ditto !!

fisch11
04-13-2007, 01:36 PM
Ok, so apparently even in that huge media market, nobody has inside info on Cubs lineups. But I dug this out of a message board that looks like a decent source. Don't carve it in stone yet...
Soriano- CF
Theriot - 3B
Jones- RF
Lee- 1B
Barrett- C
Floyd- LF
Cedeno- 2B
Izturis- SS
Zambrano

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:38 PM
Ok, so apparently even in that huge media market, nobody has inside info on Cubs lineups. But I dug this out of a message board that looks like a decent source. Don't carve it in stone yet...
Soriano- CF
Theriot - 3B
Jones- RF
Lee- 1B
Barrett- C
Floyd- LF
Cedeno- 2B
Izturis- SS
Zambrano

I can't find the lineup any where.

Chip R
04-13-2007, 01:45 PM
This lineup can't be right for the Reds cause the catcher isn't batting 8th. ;)

fisch11
04-13-2007, 01:46 PM
Lineup confirmed through Fox Sports.

So nice to not see Aramis.

fisch11
04-13-2007, 01:47 PM
Also, Cubs fans in panic mode over this lineup on one message board. One member stated "Zambrano should be batting 7th in this lineup." :laugh:

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:48 PM
Lineup confirmed through Fox Sports.

So nice to not see Aramis.

Yeah, but the Cubbies still have a dangerous lineup regardless.

OesterPoster
04-13-2007, 01:50 PM
Doesn't sound good for Ramirez...


Cubs third baseman Aramis Ramirez, off to a torrid start with a .406 average, one homer and five RBI, was scratched from the Cubs lineup Friday because of swelling in his right wrist.

Ramirez apparently hurt his wrist originally in spring training, but the swelling had worsened. He was sent to have the hand checked by a specialist before the Cubs played the Reds at Wrigley Field Friday, but no diagnosis was available.

"He just got up this morning and had some swelling," general manager Jim Hendry said.

Asked if Ramirez did something over the past two days, when the Cubs did not play, to aggravate it, Hendry replied, "No, not that I know of."

Ramirez's place at third base would have been filled by Mark DeRosa, but he also was unavailable Friday because of back spasms. Utility infielder/outfielder Ryan Theriot started at third base and Ronny Cedeno at second.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:53 PM
Doesn't sound good for Ramirez...

Sounds good for the Reds though

kaldaniels
04-13-2007, 01:53 PM
So if FSN Ohio doesn't have the game nor does WGN what crew will be doing it on extra innings on Directv (its on the schedule).

redsrule2500
04-13-2007, 01:54 PM
No TV :( :( :(

TeamBoone
04-13-2007, 01:54 PM
The game is on Extra Innings and MLB.TV but if you are in the Reds home territory you will be blacked out.

That certainly makes sense seeing as it's an away game. :rolleyes:

fisch11
04-13-2007, 01:55 PM
Yeah, but the Cubbies still have a dangerous lineup regardless.

Ramirez and DeRosa combined for 12 of the Cubs 27 hits in the opening series.
Neither of them are in the lineup.

cincy09
04-13-2007, 01:56 PM
So if FSN Ohio doesn't have the game nor does WGN what crew will be doing it on extra innings on Directv (its on the schedule).

Comcast crew

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:56 PM
So if FSN Ohio doesn't have the game nor does WGN what crew will be doing it on extra innings on Directv (its on the schedule).

It's coming on Comcast but if it's black out or not I don't know.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 01:57 PM
Ramirez and DeRosa combined for 12 of the Cubs 27 hits in the opening series.
Neither of them are in the lineup.

I'm just trying not to jinx us :thumbup:

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:00 PM
Dunn has 17 homers at Wrigley since he broke into the league.

KronoRed
04-13-2007, 02:04 PM
I don't get the logic of Soriano leading off for the cubs, you don't put 40 homer guys in the leadoff spot no matter how many steals they get.

Jharb74
04-13-2007, 02:04 PM
I guess Freel isn't in the game today because he may make the mistake of actually hitting a home run, and the umps calling it a double.

Sorry, vague refference to a game at Wrigley last year.

haylo2403
04-13-2007, 02:09 PM
If you follow this link http://myp2p.eu/MLB.htm and go down to about the middle of the page where it says there is a good chance mlb might be on these channels, click on the link that says "watch it in MediaPlayer" you can watch it on a small screen if anyone is interested

Marge'sMullet
04-13-2007, 02:10 PM
It's 3:00 in Seoul and I'm still up waiting for this game, I don't think I can stay up for the whole thing. Watching it on MLB.TV though.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2007, 02:11 PM
If you follow this link http://myp2p.eu/MLB.htm and go down to about the middle of the page where it says there is a good chance mlb might be on these channels, click on the link that says "watch it in MediaPlayer" you can watch it on a small screen if anyone is interested

You mean if anyone is interested in breaking the law.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:12 PM
It's 3:00 in Seoul and I'm still up waiting for this game, I don't think I can stay up for the whole thing. Watching it on MLB.TV though.

That's some dedication to the Reds

haylo2403
04-13-2007, 02:12 PM
Sure, just information, dont have to use it if you dont want.

Far East
04-13-2007, 02:13 PM
As tough as Zambrano is on right handed hitters, it may be difficult for Reds' righties to get good swings today.

A surprise today might be Castro, who did get some sweet spot contacts in Arizona, ropes unfortunately right at the left fielder. If he continues with more swings like that, and if he gets ahead of Zambrano in the count, and if Zambrano takes him too lightly, and if the Cubs want to pitch to him as much as they want to pitch to Harang, and if the wind at Wrigley is blowing out ... don't be surprised.

oneupper
04-13-2007, 02:16 PM
That's some dedication to the Reds

REDS love is Global. I watched most of the last D-Backs game from Madrid.
That one started at 3:40 am.

fisch11
04-13-2007, 02:16 PM
Usually high scoring affairs in Wrigley between these two teams. Let's hope it's lopsided for the Redlegs.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 02:17 PM
It's nice to have a big bopper (Ramirez) out of the lineup when Harang's going. If Aaron keeps it in the park he blows this Cubs' lineup away.

RedsManRick
04-13-2007, 02:17 PM
If I were Pinella, I'd be batting Zambrano 7th in that lineup.

fisch11
04-13-2007, 02:19 PM
Wind blowing out to right....sweet.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:20 PM
BP flys out to fly 1 away

NorrisHopper30
04-13-2007, 02:21 PM
Phillips isn't very patient, yet again.

membengal
04-13-2007, 02:21 PM
Not that I am complaining, but how come XM 173 isn't being taken off the air like it usually is?

(Glad to avoid the Cubs broadcasters as long as this goodness lasts)

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:21 PM
2-1 to Hamilton

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:22 PM
Full count

NorrisHopper30
04-13-2007, 02:22 PM
Full count to Hammy.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Hamilton walks

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 02:23 PM
I'd like to see the Reds get under the Cubs' skin today by beating up on Zambrano, thus setting up a domino effect of frustration that persists through the weekend.

RBA
04-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Not that I am complaining, but how come XM 173 isn't being taken off the air like it usually is?

(Glad to avoid the Cubs broadcasters as long as this goodness lasts)

I noticed the same thing.

Ham walks!

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:23 PM
Ball 1 to Dunn

membengal
04-13-2007, 02:23 PM
GREAT batting eye he is showing. Superlative. Four walks now in 13 plate appearances...

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:24 PM
2-2 to Dunn

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2007, 02:24 PM
GREAT batting eye he is showing. Superlative. Four walks now in 13 plate appearances...

You down with OBP?
(yeah, you know me!)

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:25 PM
Dunn strikes out looking

NorrisHopper30
04-13-2007, 02:26 PM
Zambrano is pissed

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:27 PM
Griffey singles to right and Hamilton goes to 3rd.

AccordinglyReds
04-13-2007, 02:27 PM
Jr hits single....Hamilton to 3rd.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Edwin grounds out to short

AccordinglyReds
04-13-2007, 02:29 PM
EE grounds out

RBA
04-13-2007, 02:29 PM
Edwin grounds out to short


But as long as he ran to first, that's all that matters. :devil:

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:32 PM
Soriano strikes out!

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:34 PM
Theriot strikes out!

Red in Atl
04-13-2007, 02:35 PM
Sunday's game in on WGN. Here's a link to all their TV games. Sorry if this is duplicated..

http://wgnsuperstation.trb.com/sports/wgncable-07cubs-sked,0,7203252.htmlstory?coll=wgncable-sports-1

Strikes Out Looking
04-13-2007, 02:35 PM
Dunn strikes out looking

You rang? But please be aware that my name is simply Strikes Out Looking. I don't have anything in front of it. not Adam, Dunn, Jr., Ross, or anything else.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:36 PM
Jones singles to left

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:36 PM
You rang? But please be aware that my name is simply Strikes Out Looking. I don't have anything in front of it. not Adam, Dunn, Jr., Ross, or anything else.

Sorry for the mistake :)

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:37 PM
Jones steals 2nd

kaldaniels
04-13-2007, 02:37 PM
A shout out to my namesake on the Comcast broadcast! Speaking of Kal's power the other way. :beerme:

Strikes Out Looking
04-13-2007, 02:37 PM
Sorry for the mistake :)

That's ok. I've been waiting months to make that post!

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:38 PM
Lee doubles in a run

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:39 PM
Barrett singles in a run

VR
04-13-2007, 02:39 PM
What a pleasant surprise to find the Reds game on...I thought it was tonight.

Nice to see Zambrano have to work a bit in the first.

DTCromer
04-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Awesome. We have runners on the corners and two outs and do nothing.
The opposing team has 0 zero runners on, 2 outs and finds a way to score 2 runs. This sounds eerily familiar.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 02:41 PM
Ugh. Forget what I said about Aaron. Apparently he doesn't mind giving up consecutive base hits.

:rolleyes:

I mean, this lineup is made to order for him.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:41 PM
Floyd gets a single

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:43 PM
Ground out to Castro 3 outs

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 02:44 PM
This squad is dull, dull, dull.

ochoa30
04-13-2007, 02:44 PM
wow, hopefully aaron can hold em down the rest of the game cuz i dont think zambrano will be as bad as the last time we faced him.

2001MUgrad
04-13-2007, 02:45 PM
Anywhere online to listen?? the 2 I normally listen to aren't working today.

TOBTTReds
04-13-2007, 02:45 PM
I think the JV is the worst game caller. There was a desperate need to throw a slider to Lee and he goes with the a FB inside that he crushes. Not saying a slider would have gotten him out bc he hung one to barrett later. But it just seemed to make all the sense in the world.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:45 PM
Hatte walks

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:47 PM
Javy grounds out to 3rd. Hatte goes to 2nd.

Chip R
04-13-2007, 02:48 PM
Anywhere online to listen?? the 2 I normally listen to aren't working today.


I can't get wkki either.

Jr's Boy
04-13-2007, 02:48 PM
Anywhere online to listen?? the 2 I normally listen to aren't working today.

I can't get them neither,damn MLB!:bang:

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:49 PM
Castro strikes out swinging

redsfan30
04-13-2007, 02:49 PM
Brantley thinks that B.I.G. might be D.E.A.D.

:laugh:

Jr's Boy
04-13-2007, 02:50 PM
?

MartyFan
04-13-2007, 02:51 PM
Full count to Harang!

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:51 PM
full count to Harang

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:51 PM
Harang grounds out to Big Z

MartyFan
04-13-2007, 02:51 PM
Dang....but good AB by Harang to get Z's pitch count up.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:52 PM
Dang....but good AB by Harang to get Z's pitch count up.

Should've been a walk

VR
04-13-2007, 02:52 PM
Good AB by Aaron to run that pitch count up. Now 38 through 2.

MartyFan
04-13-2007, 02:53 PM
Should've been a walk

I'm listening I can't see the location of pitches but still a good AB for the pitcher.

Marge'sMullet
04-13-2007, 02:53 PM
Harang has walk once in his big league career.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 02:54 PM
Zambrano doesn't typically tire much. He either has it or he doesn't from the get-go. Even at this rate he should make it through seven unless the offense turns it on. But it may not matter if Aaron can't learn to retire a glut of righthanders.

Brisco
04-13-2007, 02:54 PM
First, I know all about how Harang has proven himself and deserves more of a break when he has such a proven record... and this is by no means an anti-Harang post, I love him... BUT

He gets totally rocked in the first inning and gives up 3 runs and not a single comment in the thread about it... no "I hope the bullpen can go 8 innings today" or similar comment.

Kyle Lohse does the same thing a couple of days ago and you would think he was a child molestor based on the comments on the thread. I don't know how Harang will follow this up, but Lohse followed a bad 1st inning with 6 innings of 2 hit, 1 run 4 K ball... and the board was realtively silent in praise afterwards.

Lohse has 2 outtings this season, 1 very good and one adequate. He has a 4.05 era and in two outting he has given up only one walk. He deserves better than the Jimmy Haynes treatment he receives the second he gives up a hit.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:55 PM
Fly out to Castro 1 out

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:55 PM
Zambrano doubles to left

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 02:56 PM
even z-man getting in on the hit parade...so glad i didn't go to the game

Rotater Cuff
04-13-2007, 02:56 PM
The problem in a nutshell. Valentin can't catch or throw, but can hit. Ross can't hit, but he can catch ok. Castro can field, can't hit.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 02:56 PM
First, I know all about how Harang has proven himself and deserves more of a break when he has such a proven record... and this is by no means an anti-Harang post, I love him... BUT

He gets totally rocked in the first inning and gives up 3 runs and not a single comment in the thread about it... no "I hope the bullpen can go 8 innings today" or similar comment.

Kyle Lohse does the same thing a couple of days ago and you would think he was a child molestor based on the comments on the thread. I don't know how Harang will follow this up, but Lohse followed a bad 1st inning with 6 innings of 2 hit, 1 run 4 K ball... and the board was realtively silent in praise afterwards.

Lohse has 2 outtings this season, 1 very good and one adequate. He has a 4.05 era and in two outting he has given up only one walk. He deserves better than the Jimmy Haynes treatment he receives the second he gives up a hit.


I agree that Aaron deserves some serious derision for his last two starts. No question.

But I also think Lohse deserves the flaming he gets as well for his last start.

Jharb74
04-13-2007, 02:57 PM
They say he may have injured himself coming into 2nd.

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 02:57 PM
First, I know all about how Harang has proven himself and deserves more of a break when he has such a proven record... and this is by no means an anti-Harang post, I love him... BUT

He gets totally rocked in the first inning and gives up 3 runs and not a single comment in the thread about it... no "I hope the bullpen can go 8 innings today" or similar comment.

Kyle Lohse does the same thing a couple of days ago and you would think he was a child molestor based on the comments on the thread. I don't know how Harang will follow this up, but Lohse followed a bad 1st inning with 6 innings of 2 hit, 1 run 4 K ball... and the board was realtively silent in praise afterwards.

Lohse has 2 outtings this season, 1 very good and one adequate. He has a 4.05 era and in two outting he has given up only one walk. He deserves better than the Jimmy Haynes treatment he receives the second he gives up a hit.

You answered it in the beginning of your post. Lohse has proven to be bad and Harang has proven to be good. And he's only given up 2 runs today.

NJReds
04-13-2007, 02:57 PM
They say he may have injured himself coming into 2nd.

Who?

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:58 PM
Full count to Soriano

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 02:58 PM
Soriano grounds out to Edwin 2 outs

redlegs2370
04-13-2007, 03:00 PM
This Cubs line-up is really going to be tough to pitch to when Soriano starts to hit the ball

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:00 PM
ugly...just ugly

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:00 PM
Oy Vey Theriot singles in a run

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:01 PM
Theriot steals 2nd. Put Ross in seesh

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:01 PM
That was a really cheap hit, and the pitch wasn't even a strike. And Jr. was pulled over toward center.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 03:02 PM
Jerry needs to get in Aaron's face; if for no other reason than to ferret out if he's hiding an injury.

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:02 PM
why can't this team seem to get the final out

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:02 PM
What an awful throw by Javy.

redlegs2370
04-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Maybe all those publications that picked the Reds for last knew what they were talking about. I hate to sound negative after only 2 weeks but this Reds team is just not very good. The last two games Aaron has pitched like his spring training outings and the offense only scores off homeruns.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Walk

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Jerry needs to get in Aaron's face; if for no other reason than to ferret out if he's hiding an injury.

Why is it always the first suspicion that a pitcher is hiding an injury when he has a bout of ineffectiveness?

Even the best occasionally don't have it for a start or 2.

RedFanAlways1966
04-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Harang year-stats after 2 IP today.... 4.91 ERA, 1.57 WHIP.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Ground out to Phillips

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 03:04 PM
why can't this team seem to get the final out

Reversing course on pitching that is as bad as the Reds' has been for 8 seasons is no easy task.

And there's been no improvement in it from last year to this.

RBA
04-13-2007, 03:04 PM
Why is it always the first suspicion that a pitcher is hiding an injury when he has a bout of ineffectiveness?


Because there's a long history of Reds pitchers hiding injuries.

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:05 PM
Well Harang has been very vocal about not liking to pitch in cold weather. I wonder if he's let it get in his head a little bit. His breaking balls really aren't biting much at all.

Brisco
04-13-2007, 03:05 PM
I agree that Aaron deserves some serious derision for his last two starts. No question.

But I also think Lohse deserves the flaming he gets as well for his last start.

Flaming is one thing... giving up on the player is another. Lohse is a starter, and he is currently not the worst starter. Talk all you want about him getting rocked or not fooling anyone... but let's have him actually lose or give up 5 runs in a game before folks start calling for him to be pulled from the rotation.

This is a new season, not to mention a new league and team. Maybe the "back of his baseball card" is not quite as relevant as normal. Let's face it, if last start was the "off" Lohse (referring to his inconsistency of being very on and very off every other start) then I think we can live with it as a 4th starter (moving Belisle to 3rd).

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 03:06 PM
Why is it always the first suspicion that a pitcher is hiding an injury when he has a bout of ineffectiveness?

Even the best occasionally don't have it for a start or 2.

I didn't say he did have an injury. Just to see if he does or not. If he doesn't then the dressing down was needed regardless.

Harang needs to be this team's best pitcher. Right now he's awful. That's unacceptable when you consider the clubs he's been facing (Pirates, Cubs).

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:06 PM
BP grounds out to 2nd.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Well Harang has been very vocal about not liking to pitch in cold weather. .


BS excuse.

CTA513
04-13-2007, 03:07 PM
BP grounds out to 2nd.

Hes up to 3 pitches in 2 ABs.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Hamilton grounds out to 2nd.

WebScorpion
04-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Waawaaawaah...three runs. Big Deal! Hamilton will account for more than that by himself...Dunn will put us over the top.
GO REDS!!!
:beerme:

redlegs2370
04-13-2007, 03:07 PM
Hes up to 3 pitches in 2 ABs.

Exactly what you want to see out of your leadoff man!

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:08 PM
Dunn flys out to left

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2007, 03:08 PM
I didn't say he did have an injury. Just to see if he does or not. If he doesn't then the dressing down was needed regardless.

What? Yell at him and tell him to stop sucking?

I can't imagine that conversation would be productive.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:08 PM
I know it's early in the game but this is depressing

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 03:09 PM
What? Yell at him and tell him to stop sucking?

I can't imagine that conversation would be productive.

Leaders should be held to higher standards. You said it yourself, "Life ain't fair."

BuckeyeRedleg
04-13-2007, 03:10 PM
Now Harang will settle down and keep them scoreless for the next 4-5 innings.

Typical.

ochoa30
04-13-2007, 03:10 PM
I know it's early in the game but this is depressing

It feels like the game is over already. Hopefully they will get it going, but it hasn't been pretty so far.

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:10 PM
BS excuse.

I said I think he might be letting it get in his head. And it's not completely a BS excuse. Have you ever tried to pitch in cold weather? It's not easy when you rely on a 12-6 curve ball, some guys can't do it. He was horrible last year at the beginning of the season when it was cold. But what I was getting at is maybe he's letting it affect him more than it should.

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 03:11 PM
Now Harang will settle down and keep them scoreless for the next 4-5 innings.

Typical.

I doubt it. He looks like crap.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:11 PM
3-0 to Barrett

DTCromer
04-13-2007, 03:11 PM
I've recently been vocal about Harang not being a #1 starter, and I still don't think he is, but he's a lot better than what he's pitching today. He just needs to find his groove, like most pitchers and he'll be fine. No need to criticize AH yet.

NOW, if this were May and he's still pitching like this. . . then yes, I'm going to revist the post about AH being a #1.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:11 PM
Barrett walks

BuckeyeRedleg
04-13-2007, 03:12 PM
It seems, at this point, that almost every Reds pitcher in the organization is liking the cold weather with the exception of Harang and Milton.

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2007, 03:12 PM
Leaders should be held to higher standards. You said it yourself, "Life ain't fair."

Of course leaders should be held to higher standards, but what good is yelling and screaming going to do?

Get him working with Dick Pole more, watch more film of his mechanics to see if he's doing something different from this year to last year -- hell, send him to Golden Corral and tell him to put some of that weight he lost back on -- but I don't think telling him he has a problem will be giving anyone any new information.

OesterPoster
04-13-2007, 03:12 PM
I said I think he might be letting it get in his head. And it's not completely a BS excuse. Have you ever tried to pitch in cold weather? It's not easy when you rely on a 12-6 curve ball, some guys can't do it. He was horrible last year at the beginning of the season when it was cold. But what I was getting at is maybe he's letting it affect him more than it should.

Gee, I hope he never has to pitch in October. :devil:

Falls City Beer
04-13-2007, 03:13 PM
Of course leaders should be held to higher standards, but what good is yelling and screaming going to do?

Get him working with Dick Pole more, watch more film of his mechanics to see if he's doing something different from this year to last year -- hell, send him to Golden Corral and tell him to put some of that weight he lost back on -- but I don't think telling him he has a problem will be giving anyone any new information.

What good is benching EdE going to do?

I don't know; maybe he responds to people getting in his face. Sheepish guys like Aaron tend to.

DTCromer
04-13-2007, 03:14 PM
Gee, I hope he never has to pitch in October. :devil:

I hope he does. :)

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:14 PM
Runner out at 2nd.

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:14 PM
Come on Brandon that was an easy play.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:14 PM
I miss Gonzo

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:16 PM
Runner out at 2nd. 2 outs. There should've been 4 outs in this inning.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-13-2007, 03:17 PM
Brantley sounds like a younger version of Harry Carey.

That or someone doing a weak impression of him.

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:17 PM
Runner out at 2nd. 2 outs. There should've been 4 outs in this inning.

which is exactly how you need the defense to play, when you don't have your best stuff on the mound:bang:

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:17 PM
I miss Gonzo

With Harang off his game we don't need our infielders making him work more than he should.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:18 PM
Another frickin' stolen base!

Strikes Out Looking
04-13-2007, 03:18 PM
Another frickin' stolen base!

Obviously Chicago has read the scouting reports on the Reds catching.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-13-2007, 03:18 PM
3 catchers on this team and they all stink.

Always Red
04-13-2007, 03:18 PM
Brantley sounds like a younger version of Harry Carey.

That or someone doing a weak impression of him.

I think Brantley sounds like Hank Hill, of cartoon fame.

Cubs running wild on Harang and Javy today...

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:19 PM
Fly out to Dunn 3 outs

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:19 PM
Javier is terrible at throwing out runners. Those throws aren't even close. At least Ross can throw well.

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:20 PM
Obviously Chicago has read the scouting reports on the Reds catching.

lou said they'd be running in the pre-game show

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:20 PM
Griffey, Edwin, and Hatte lead off the inning

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2007, 03:20 PM
Javier is terrible at throwing out runners. Those throws aren't even close. At least Ross can throw well.

I, for one, miss Jason LaRue.

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:20 PM
3 catchers on this team and they all stink.

Ross is excellent in throwing out runners. His mechanics in that part of his game are great. He is horrible at blocking balls, but he has a strong accurate arm and gets rid of the ball quickly.

RedsManRick
04-13-2007, 03:20 PM
Javier is terrible at throwing out runners. Those throws aren't even close. At least Ross can throw well.

Often it's the pitcher getting run on, not the catcher. If Harang is slow to the plate, it really doesn't matter where Javy throws the ball.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:21 PM
Tomorrow is Pete Rose's 66th birthday

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:21 PM
I, for one, miss Jason LaRue.

As far as throwing out runners goes, Ross is better than LaRue. But blocking balls, Jason is hands down better.

DTCromer
04-13-2007, 03:21 PM
I, for one, miss Jason LaRue.

I agree. We'd have 3 pass balls and a .150 BA so far this year.

CRedsLarkin11
04-13-2007, 03:22 PM
Hey, let's just score a run, ;) I'm gonna start setting my goals low for these Reds

CTA513
04-13-2007, 03:22 PM
Often it's the pitcher getting run on, not the catcher. If Harang is slow to the plate, it really doesn't matter where Javy throws the ball.

Hes bounced both throws to second and one of the plays looked like a pitch out.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:22 PM
Griffey flys out to 3rd

VR
04-13-2007, 03:23 PM
I, for one, miss Jason LaRue.

Sadly, Jason's cs % the last 4 years has declined quite a bit. Ross and Valentin were far superior last year.

Strikes Out Looking
04-13-2007, 03:23 PM
Can't the Reds send the three catchers to Dr. Kremchek and emerge with two standout catchers? They could then sell the extra parts to a third world country. Just thinking outside the box:)

RedFanAlways1966
04-13-2007, 03:23 PM
The REDS have scored 5 or more runs four times in their first nine games. They have done it both times Aaron Harang has started (5 runs and 7 runs). Looks like they'll need to do it again to win this one.

Last year Harang had a 4.35 ERA in six April starts. The REDS scored 45 runs in those six games (7.33/game)... which included a 1-0 REDS win on April 14 @ St. Louis.

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:24 PM
Often it's the pitcher getting run on, not the catcher. If Harang is slow to the plate, it really doesn't matter where Javy throws the ball.

On the last two a decent throw would have had the runners. Javy's throwing bouncers to the wrong side of the bag.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:24 PM
Full count to Edwin

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:24 PM
Edwin walks. 3rd walk today for the Reds

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2007, 03:25 PM
Sadly, Jason's cs % the last 4 years has declined quite a bit. Ross and Valentin were far superior last year.

Classic example, though, of teams only testing a catcher when they're certain they've got someone fast enough to beat his throw to 2nd.

Today, anyone can beat Javier's throws to 2nd.

Red Leader
04-13-2007, 03:25 PM
Well Harang has been very vocal about not liking to pitch in cold weather. I wonder if he's let it get in his head a little bit. His breaking balls really aren't biting much at all.

FWIW, Yahoo shows that it is 51 degrees and sunny in Chicago with a 7mph wind from left to right.

I'd hardly call this a "cold weather" game.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:25 PM
2-0 to Hatte

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:26 PM
3-1

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:26 PM
Full count to Hatte

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:27 PM
FWIW, Yahoo shows that it is 51 degrees and sunny in Chicago with a 7mph wind from left to right.

I'd hardly call this a "cold weather" game.

i had shorts on today:p:

Always Red
04-13-2007, 03:27 PM
FWIW, Yahoo shows that it is 51 degrees and sunny in Chicago with a 7mph wind from left to right.

I'd hardly call this a "cold weather" game.

Brantley said it was beautiful today in Chicago, and Harang would have no problem getting a grip on the ball.

RedFanAlways1966
04-13-2007, 03:27 PM
Steals? Not good, but has anyone of them cost the REDS a run?

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:27 PM
Ground out to Lee out at 1st. Edwin goes to 2nd.

Red Leader
04-13-2007, 03:27 PM
i had shorts on today:p:

Atta boy! :thumbup: :laugh:

Chip R
04-13-2007, 03:28 PM
Edwin walks. 3rd walk today for the Reds


Bet he ran to 1st. ;)

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:28 PM
if only lee was 2 inches shorter;)

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:28 PM
Steals? Not good, but has anyone of them cost the REDS a run?

1 I think

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:28 PM
FWIW, Yahoo shows that it is 51 degrees and sunny in Chicago with a 7mph wind from left to right.

I'd hardly call this a "cold weather" game.

It always feels colder at Wrigley, to me anyway. But I was saying that it shouldn't be bothering him this much, but it could have nothing to do with the weather, he could just be off today.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:28 PM
Javy lines out to 2nd.

Cyclone792
04-13-2007, 03:29 PM
FWIW, Yahoo shows that it is 51 degrees and sunny in Chicago with a 7mph wind from left to right.

I'd hardly call this a "cold weather" game.

Yep, it seems like the weather they've got up in Chicago today is much the same as we've go here in Cincinnati/Dayton. It's not hot outside or anything, but it should be very easy to tolerate, unlike some of those games in Cincinnati last week.

One of my buddies is actually up in Chicago at the game as part of a bachelor party, and he's already sent me a couple pictures. From the looks of the pictures, the sun is reaching the field and it looks like a pretty decent day for a ballgame.

CRedsLarkin11
04-13-2007, 03:29 PM
1 hitter through 4

BuckeyeRedleg
04-13-2007, 03:29 PM
I know he's new to PBP, but why can't Brantley do color full time?

Really, I can't tell what the heck is going on.

DTCromer
04-13-2007, 03:30 PM
Soooo, when is our offense going to come back from the DL?

RedFanAlways1966
04-13-2007, 03:30 PM
1 I think

I didn't think so, d10. I may be wrong. But I thought all 3 runs were the product of basehits.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:31 PM
Zambrano hits a home fricken run

RedFanAlways1966
04-13-2007, 03:31 PM
Good lord... Zambrano goes yard to CF.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-13-2007, 03:31 PM
Soooo, when is our offense going to come back from the DL?

The bottom of this lineup is scary bad.

CTA513
04-13-2007, 03:31 PM
Might as well take Harang out.

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:31 PM
i'm going to puke...z-man is a wrecking machine:angry:

thatcoolguy_22
04-13-2007, 03:31 PM
wow zambrano?

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:32 PM
Soriano doubles

RedFanAlways1966
04-13-2007, 03:32 PM
Bad News Bears before Kelly Leak joined the team. :(

CRedsLarkin11
04-13-2007, 03:32 PM
Wow, this sure feels alot worse than 4-0

thatcoolguy_22
04-13-2007, 03:32 PM
now hamilton drops a pop up... not looking good

MartyFan
04-13-2007, 03:32 PM
Bad news is I am a Reds Fan.
Good news is Z is one of my fantasy team pitchers.

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:32 PM
they're called sunglasses:cool:

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:32 PM
I'm about to turn the channel this is sad.

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:33 PM
Wow The Natural pulls a Dunn and ducks a fly ball.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:33 PM
Nice Javy nice

Red Leader
04-13-2007, 03:33 PM
3 IP, 8 H, 2BB. That's 10 baserunners so far with 0 outs in the 4th.

Ouch.

CRedsLarkin11
04-13-2007, 03:33 PM
Bad news is I am a Reds Fan.
Good news is Z is one of my fantasy team pitchers.


Too bad ya don't get that homer too

Chip R
04-13-2007, 03:33 PM
Might as well take Harang out.


Might be a good idea. Save some wear and tear on his arm.

Razor Shines
04-13-2007, 03:34 PM
they're called sunglasses:cool:

He has sunglasses on.

And he didn't drop it as someone said, he didn't even touch it. He's lucky it didn't hit him in the face.

thatcoolguy_22
04-13-2007, 03:34 PM
and now valentin... geesh

i'm going to turn off the game now. I just turned it on in time to watch the pitch to zambrano... i'm bad luck

George Foster
04-13-2007, 03:34 PM
Harrang is frankly not pitching that good for the 2nd start in a row

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:34 PM
Is Milton dressed up in Harang's jersey?

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2007, 03:34 PM
Whatever -- I've been a baseball fan all my life. I've seen games like this before, I'll see more games like this in the future.

Thats why they play 162.

RedFanAlways1966
04-13-2007, 03:35 PM
3 IP, 8 H, 2BB. That's 10 baserunners so far with 0 outs in the 4th.

Ouch.

Make that 11 now. Harang gave up 10H and 1BB in 5.2 IP last time. He is getting WHIPped.

DTCromer
04-13-2007, 03:35 PM
What did Javy do?

HumnHilghtFreel
04-13-2007, 03:36 PM
What did Javy do?

Ball in the dirt, it kicked to the left, he thought it went right. Soriano could have walked into 3rd

Kc61
04-13-2007, 03:36 PM
Jerry, do you really have to leave Harang out there?

RedsManRick
04-13-2007, 03:36 PM
I called it. No way should Zambrano be hitting behind Izturis and Cedeno.

Degenerate39
04-13-2007, 03:37 PM
Another Stolen Base Rahhhhhhh

zombie-a-go-go
04-13-2007, 03:37 PM
I've seen the Reds come back from 5-0 against the Cubbies before.

Not that this fact makes this outing any less ugly.

CTA513
04-13-2007, 03:38 PM
Might be a good idea. Save some wear and tear on his arm.

70+ pitches so far in under 4 innings, yet hes still pitching.

:help:

dabvu2498
04-13-2007, 03:38 PM
Classic example, though, of teams only testing a catcher when they're certain they've got someone fast enough to beat his throw to 2nd.

Today, anyone can beat Javier's throws to 2nd.

Not true.

Last year:

Ross -- 621 Innings, 31 attempts against, .452 CS%
LaRue -- 512 Innings, 36 attempts against, .361 CS%

LaRue was actually run on more frequently than Ross.

Red in Chicago
04-13-2007, 03:39 PM
all this without ramirez and derosa in the lineup...