Opinions on sending EE to AAA.

[44Magnum]

I'm just throwing it out there. I like him and all, but I've been wondering if sending Encarnacion to Louisville would help him or hurt him? He could definitely use some time to clear his head, but would it be detrimental him emotionally at this point in his career?

[Doro]

I dont think this would be good for him at this point. All major league hitters go through big time slumps..... he has to learn to get through it.

[Jefferson24]

I think if the Reds had another good option for 3rd base it would be a good idea. Let him go down for 2-3 weeks to get past this rough spot and get his swing fine tuned. I don't think bringing him back up would turn him right back into another slump. But if it did it might be time to consider other long-term options at 3rd base. If he has to work through this slump wouldn't it be better to do that at AAA than up with the Reds? His ineffectiveness is costing us games right now.

The problem is we don't have another good option for 3rd right now.

[Red in Atl]

Ryan Freel at third and Josh Hamilton in Center seems like a decent option to me...Did Edwin not lead the league in hitting during Spring Training? Boggles my mind how these guys just stop doing what they did a week ago or a month ago.

Not saying BB isn't a hard game, 'cause I know it is. But I hate the way we baby these guys. "Oh god will his psyche be messed up if we send him to the minor?"

I say toughen the hell up. If you don't hit, go down and learn it again. Spending a few weeks on buses vs. how you are treated in "The Show" could rekindle his desire a bit. Just ask "Crash" Davis.

[Always Red]

If Eddie goes, he needs to take Dave Ross with him.

[Joseph]

Just because Jerry Narron doesn't like him doesn't mean we shouldn't like him.

[Roy Tucker]

I think he needs to stay up.

Going on my totally subjective opinion based on unsubstantiated half-baked interpretation of body language, EE was la-dee-dahing his way along the first week or so of the season.

Narron's yanking from the game for failing to run out the pop-up seems to have gotten his attention. He seems re-focused.

I think his make-up is such that he can struggle his way out of this without drowning.

I knews that BS in Psych would come in good for something.

[paulrichjr]

Just because Jerry Narron doesn't like him doesn't mean we shouldn't like him.

I honestly don't believe this. I think what he did last year to EdE helped him more than hurt him. Taking him out and making him take grounders for weeks and work on footwork has obviously helped him with his defense. How is letting him (as basically a rookie) continue to make awful throws prove that Jerry Narron "likes him." While taking him out and working with him for weeks and then putting him back in almost every game since prove that he "doesn't like him."

[REDREAD]

Don't see him to AAA.. I doubt that will help his attitude at all. It didn't help Kearns at all to do the "tough love" approach.

The best approach would be to just let EdE play everyday and work it out. It seems obvious that Narron forcing him to sit in the corner after every mistake is not working.. That is a horrible way to manage. Now the kid is probably overly self-conscious about making mistakes so he doesn't get yanked out of the game.

Geez, you look at the way the Reds handle their players and you wonder why we end up with so many supposedly "bad seeds" (i.e Lopez, Kearns, LaRue, Aurillia, Dunn, The Galloping Gonad, EdE, etc).. I'm not saying these players are bad, but they've been accused of having bad attitudes. I think the management and workplace they've had to deal with affects their attitude a lot.

[cincrazy]

Agreed completely Redread. Let Encarnacion work through his slump. It's not the first time he's gotten off to a slow start, and it probably won't be the last. The Reds have faced tough pitching and brutal weather, and nobody else in the lineup with the exception of Hamilton is hitting worth a darn, so Encarnacion has had no protection. He'll be ok. Hopefully his bat can awake sooner rather than later.

[KronoRed]

If he's doing to land on the bench then yeah send him to AAA to play, if Narron will play him then keep him up.

Play for next year.

[UGADaddy]

I think if the Reds had another good option for 3rd base it would be a good idea....The problem is we don't have another good option for 3rd right now.

Ryan Freel. This solves the crowded OF problem. Freel and Hamilton have to play somehow. EdE, Griffey, and Dunn need to be worked in. EdE is being paid the least, so I see him as the odd man out.

This, of course, is very hypothetical and idealistic thinking. No way EdE gets sent down. But it's a good idea. If only he had ANY trade value at all...

[Will]

Agreed completely Redread. Let Encarnacion work through his slump. It's not the first time he's gotten off to a slow start, and it probably won't be the last. The Reds have faced tough pitching and brutal weather, and nobody else in the lineup with the exception of Hamilton is hitting worth a darn, so Encarnacion has had no protection. He'll be ok. Hopefully his bat can awake sooner rather than later.

Hamilton shows more plate discipline than just about anyone on the team and due to that he's being successful. I'm sure he'll have his bad times, but if he stays as selective as he has been, they won't last for long.
Edwin is just plain painful to watch at the plate, he seems lost and takes the term "Free Swinger" to a new level. If he would just look at a few more pitches during an at bat the slump might end.

[Topcat]

Leave EE and let him get back into his groove, there are fare bigger concerns on this team now.

[Razor Shines]

Agreed completely Redread. Let Encarnacion work through his slump. It's not the first time he's gotten off to a slow start, and it probably won't be the last. The Reds have faced tough pitching and brutal weather, and nobody else in the lineup with the exception of Hamilton is hitting worth a darn, so Encarnacion has had no protection. He'll be ok. Hopefully his bat can awake sooner rather than later.
Protection? That's actually his job. There aren't any teams that are afraid to pitch to EE right now. He's not in a slump because he can't get anything to hit. He's just in a slump.


I think he should stay up and I don't mind Narron giving him a day off or two every week. He'll still get enough ABs to help him develop. I don't think Narron sits him because he hates him, I think it's just the opposite. This board may not like Narron's philosophy, but I think he thinks EE is pressing too much right now, so he gives him a day off. People talk like Narron's barely using him, he is 4th on the team in PAs. Is he actually sitting that much?

I think his best idea was to move him further down in the order. I hope that when he does get back in the lineup that he'll be 6th or 7th, he seemed to look more comfortable the two games he was down there. And once he's hitting like we expect him to, move him back to the middle of the order.

[NatiRedGals]

Only two people need Triple A! Coffey and Ross!

[flyer85]

Only two people need Triple A! Coffey and Ross!... there are about 6 or 7 that just need to be released.

[AmarilloRed]

If Edwins hitting problems are mental, he should be sent to AAA. If he is just going through a slump, keep him in the lineup.

[NatiRedGals]

... there are about 6 or 7 that just need to be released.

Amen

[thatcoolguy_22]

Hamilton shows more plate discipline than just about anyone on the team and due to that he's being successful. I'm sure he'll have his bad times, but if he stays as selective as he has been, they won't last for long.
Edwin is just plain painful to watch at the plate, he seems lost and takes the term "Free Swinger" to a new level. If he would just look at a few more pitches during an at bat the slump might end.

Hamimlton's plate discilpine was on fine display in the first game of the Cardinals game if I remember correctly. I believe it was 4 pitches and 4 swings batting out of the LEADOFF spot! (1-4 with a single)

EdE just needs to get his reps in and everyone off of his back. He has been hitting the ball hard but, it always seams to be directly at someone. AAA will do nothing.




Also if anyone is "lost" at the plate you should point your finger at Adam Dunn in these last 2 weeks. Horrendous now striking out more than 1 in 3 ABs. In 2007 he will break his own record.

[reds44]

There aren't any better options at this point.

He had 2 hits tonight, lets see how he does.

[Barbarossa]

That three run triple EE blasted yesterday should take the pressure off him for a while. But the Reds are concerned and they do have options besides Freel. Was on another Reds board and they were discussing Jeff Keppinger. Ever hear of him? They say he's a 2nd baseman for the Bats that's been moved to third recently. Don't know his numbers but one poster did say " he never strikes out ". Sounds like he wouldn't fit in.:thumbdown

[fearofpopvol1]

That three run triple EE blasted yesterday should take the pressure off him for a while. But the Reds are concerned and they do have options besides Freel. Was on another Reds board and they were discussing Jeff Keppinger. Ever hear of him? They say he's a 2nd baseman for the Bats that's been moved to third recently. Don't know his numbers but one poster did say " he never strikes out ". Sounds like he wouldn't fit in.:thumbdown

I agree with this. I don't think there is a better clutch hitter on our team. What is he, like 13/25 lifetime with the bases loaded? That's pretty incredible.

Let's also not forget that he's really the only right-handed power bat on the team...

[44Magnum]

Keep it up Edwin. 5 hits in 2 days is a good sign. Not to mention he was hitting the ball pretty hard a game or two before that.

[Heath]

Keep it up Edwin. 5 hits in 2 days is a good sign. Not to mention he was hitting the ball pretty hard a game or two before that.

You could argue that EdE's been hitting into dumb luck the last couple of weeks. He was robbed on some plays in the INF over the past couple of days.

3 in Houston start tomorrow. A series win gives the Reds an over .500 road trip.

[paintmered]

Hamimlton's plate discilpine was on fine display in the first game of the Cardinals game if I remember correctly. I believe it was 4 pitches and 4 swings batting out of the LEADOFF spot! (1-4 with a single)

Nevermind the fact that Kip Wells is one of the most hittable first-pitch pitchers out there.

From 2004-2006:


By Count AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Count 0-0 190 220 75 15 2 7 32 0 7 0 2 2 .395 .400 .605 1.005

This year:


By Count AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Count 0-0 16 20 7 2 1 2 10 0 1 0 1 0 .438 .421 1.063 1.484

[Caveat Emperor]

You could argue that EdE's been hitting into dumb luck the last couple of weeks. He was robbed on some plays in the INF over the past couple of days.

While true, Edwin has also had some awful at bats over the last week or so. He's showing signs of coming out of his slump, but he is still swinging at some absolute garbage. Hopefully as he starts making better contact, he'll rediscover a little of that plate discipline too.

[RedsManRick]

Keppinger: think Eckstein offensively, but 6" taller, a little less speed, and a better arm. At SS, that .700 OPS is at least somewhat palatable. If you're a 2B and OPS around .700, you better have a nice glove. At 3B, a .700 OPS says you don't belong in the majors.

As for EE, he's been a little unlucky if measured by BABIP, and I can remember a few times where that "bad luck" cost him extra bases. If he had 3 non-hits fall in, he'd be batting .260 right now and nobody would be too worried. If he looks like crap in his approach and his head isn't right, fine, send him down to sort things out. But it seems like he's fine and just needs some ABs to let regression to the mean take it's course.

[flyer85]

but he is still swinging at some absolute garbage. Hopefully as he starts making better contact, he'll rediscover a little of that plate discipline too.same could be said of Phillips as well. The double to RC on the outside fastball was his best swing of the season.

Dunn, Phillips and EE all had their best swings since the first week of the season on Sunday.

BP - the double to RC.
Dunn - the HR to LC on a middle in fastball and wis warning track fly to LC.
EE - the triple on a changeup away and the hit to RF.

Basically they all waited on pitches, something none of them have been doing since the first week of the season.

[Barbarossa]

Keppinger: think Eckstein offensively, but 6" taller, a little less speed, and a better arm. At SS, that .700 OPS is at least somewhat palatable. If you're a 2B and OPS around .700, you better have a nice glove. At 3B, a .700 OPS says you don't belong in the majors.

As for EE, he's been a little unlucky if measured by BABIP, and I can remember a few times where that "bad luck" cost him extra bases. If he had 3 non-hits fall in, he'd be batting .260 right now and nobody would be too worried. If he looks like crap in his approach and his head isn't right, fine, send him down to sort things out. But it seems like he's fine and just needs some ABs to let regression to the mean take it's course.


Thanks for the scoop on Keppinger. Unless there's an injury doubt he'll be coming north.

We've waited a while on EE, lets give 'im a little more time. I think this team is gonna jell real soon and EE will be moved up to clean-up in the batting order. With the starters starting to look legit we should be in for an exciting season.:beerme:

[TRF]

EE will be fine. Ross on the other hand should be sent to the Carolina League.

What, you say the Reds don't have a team in the Carolina League?

And...?

[reds44]

Keep it up Edwin. 5 hits in 2 days is a good sign. Not to mention he was hitting the ball pretty hard a game or two before that.
Yep, he's coming around.

Give Narron credit for sticking with him.

[Handofdeath]

Thanks for the scoop on Keppinger. Unless there's an injury doubt he'll be coming north.

We've waited a while on EE, lets give 'im a little more time. I think this team is gonna jell real soon and EE will be moved up to clean-up in the batting order. With the starters starting to look legit we should be in for an exciting season.:beerme:

I'm sorry but when has EE ever shown the ability to hit with the power that batting cleanup demands? Clutch hitter though he may be, outside of the 1/2 season in 2005 with Louisville he has only shown Joe Randa power.

[reds44]

I'm sorry but when has EE ever shown the ability to hit with the power that batting cleanup demands? Clutch hitter though he may be, outside of the 1/2 season in 2005 with Louisville he has only shown Joe Randa power.
What do you mean by "power"?

Homers? Yeah he doesn't hit a great number of those, but he'll get somewhere around 30. He's a doubles machine. Power isn't always just homers.

[AmarilloRed]

Im pretty sure he hit with a lot of power last year. Showed flashes of even better power for the future.

[KronoRed]

What kind of power do people want that EE doesn't provide putting his numbers from last year out to 162 games?

I'm baffled.

[Handofdeath]

What kind of power do people want that EE doesn't provide putting his numbers from last year out to 162 games?

I'm baffled.

His slugging was .473 last year. If he had achieved enough at bats, that .473 number would have ranked him around 38th in the NL. That is not what I would want a cleanup hitter to do. If you are batting in the 3-4-5 slots then your SLG should be at least .500.

[Ron Madden]

His slugging was .473 last year. If he had achieved enough at bats, that .473 number would have ranked him around 38th in the NL. That is not what I would want a cleanup hitter to do. If you are batting in the 3-4-5 slots then your SLG should be at least .500.

Maybe if he had been given more ABs his SLG would have been above .500.

[RichRed]

Yep, he's coming around.

Give Narron credit for sticking with him.

Well, until tonight anyway. ;)


Right-hander Kyle Lohse will oppose Mr. Oswalt tonight at Minute Maid Park.

"If you look at what he's done to us in the past, it's been ugly," said Ryan Freel - the Reds utility man didn't play Tuesday, but will most likely start at third base tonight.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AE/20070502/SPT05/705020333/

[BRM]

From C. Trent's blog



No word on the lineup yet, but don't expect to see Edwin Encarnacion there. Yesterday Jerry said he'd likely take a seat against Oswalt -- against whom he doesn't have a hit in 8 at-bats and has struck out 5 times.

[redsmetz]

I don't really have a problem sitting EE today against Roy (Redskiller) Oswalt, particularly since he seems to be coming out of his funk. He's had no success yet and why have him have a possibly lousy day against a guy who eats us alive. Roy O. would be in the HOF if he pitched against the Reds every time out!

[Chip R]

I don't really have a problem sitting EE today against Roy (Redskiller) Oswalt, particularly since he seems to be coming out of his funk. He's had no success yet and why have him have a possibly lousy day against a guy who eats us alive. Roy O. would be in the HOF if he pitched against the Reds every time out!


Me either.

[BRM]

Freel has had some success against Oswalt so I don't have a problem with it either.

[Will]

EE has shown much more plate discipline over the last week and now he's coming around. Keep him in the line up and keep Hamilton hitting lead off until Freel becomes a little more selective.

[mth123]

I don't really have a problem sitting EE today against Roy (Redskiller) Oswalt, particularly since he seems to be coming out of his funk. He's had no success yet and why have him have a possibly lousy day against a guy who eats us alive. Roy O. would be in the HOF if he pitched against the Reds every time out!

Agreed. EE is on the verge of really busting loose. Oswalt is the kind of guy that can put you right back in a slump. I've criticized Narron a lot since I've been here. I have to give credit when I agree.