Goten
05-09-2007, 08:31 PM
I was recently just reading a Bonds vs Clemens thread, and agreed with many that there isn't enough evidence on Clemens to deem him as a steroid abuser like Bonds.
But what more evidence is there on Sosa than there is on Clemens?
Both were named in Canseco's book as possible juicers. Clemens, however, was named by Grimsley, though Grimsley denied it later, though he wasn't under oath that time.
Clemens strength coach has also been alleged to have dealed massive amounts of PED'S to athletes in baseball. He's denied those allegations, but he hasn't been cleared of anything.
Sosa, as far as I know, hasn't been linked to anything other than Canseco's book.
As to performance increases - Clemens has clearly improved. From the ages of 40 and over, Clemens boast an ERA+ of 153, 23 points higher than Cyyoung, the second one on the list. His ERA+ prior to then was 142. You could also note that in his last two seasons his ERA+ over 345 innings was an incredible 209. That's incredible for his age. And From the age of 34 and older, he has a 143 ERA+, with the two single season highest ( 226, 221), again, something never done before. ( Johnson is the only pitcher EVER to do better from the age of 34+, though Clemens best old seasons were superior). Not to mention that he won 4 more cyyoungs after turning 34.
Sosa peaked pretty highly in his late 20's and early 30's, then declined in his late 30's likst most athletes do. Maybe I'm missing something, but why does one get a free pass while the other gets crucified? I could even toss Mcgwire into this conversation, but many would be quick to point out his performance at congress. But evidence-wise, There's arguably more on Clemens than Sosa and Mcgwire, yet two of them are deemed cheats, while the other is viewed as Messiah? What gives?
But what more evidence is there on Sosa than there is on Clemens?
Both were named in Canseco's book as possible juicers. Clemens, however, was named by Grimsley, though Grimsley denied it later, though he wasn't under oath that time.
Clemens strength coach has also been alleged to have dealed massive amounts of PED'S to athletes in baseball. He's denied those allegations, but he hasn't been cleared of anything.
Sosa, as far as I know, hasn't been linked to anything other than Canseco's book.
As to performance increases - Clemens has clearly improved. From the ages of 40 and over, Clemens boast an ERA+ of 153, 23 points higher than Cyyoung, the second one on the list. His ERA+ prior to then was 142. You could also note that in his last two seasons his ERA+ over 345 innings was an incredible 209. That's incredible for his age. And From the age of 34 and older, he has a 143 ERA+, with the two single season highest ( 226, 221), again, something never done before. ( Johnson is the only pitcher EVER to do better from the age of 34+, though Clemens best old seasons were superior). Not to mention that he won 4 more cyyoungs after turning 34.
Sosa peaked pretty highly in his late 20's and early 30's, then declined in his late 30's likst most athletes do. Maybe I'm missing something, but why does one get a free pass while the other gets crucified? I could even toss Mcgwire into this conversation, but many would be quick to point out his performance at congress. But evidence-wise, There's arguably more on Clemens than Sosa and Mcgwire, yet two of them are deemed cheats, while the other is viewed as Messiah? What gives?