5/27/07 - Reds vs Pirates Game Thread

[Reds Fanatic]

Starting Lineups:



PIRATES
Bautista, 3b
Duff, cf
Sanchez, 2b
LaRoche, 1b
Bay, lf
Nady, rf
Paulino, c
Wilson, ss
Duke, lhp

REDS
Freel, cf
Phillips, 2b
Griffey Jr., rf
Conine, 1b
Encarnacion, 3b
Dunn, lf
Gonzalez, ss
Moeller, c
Saarloos, rhp

[edabbs44]

Whatever. Just a sad state of affairs right now.

[Matt700wlw]

Duke's almost 6 era should fall today....sadly.

[oneupper]

Can't remember the last time EdE hit as high as 5th.

[NC Reds]

Conine batting cleanup and an appearance by Moeller. I'm all tingly. Thanks Jerry Narron.

[membengal]

As always:

Let the winning begin!

[flyer85]

Duke's almost 6 era should fall today....sadly.the Reds are 0-5 against starters named Chico, Simontacchi, Bacsik, Maholm and Chacon. AAA teams would be ashamed.

[Matt700wlw]

The Reds need to get in a fight today

[CTA513]

The Reds need to get in a fight today

Maybe if they keep hitting batters someone will start a fight?

:D

[KronoRed]

Seems since we've been losing a lot the lineups have stayed about the same.

Interesting.

[KronoRed]

The Reds need to get in a fight today

So they can lose that way too? :devil:

[Big Klu]

Close to what I expected/hoped for. I figured that Ross would get the day game after a night game off, and with Duke being a lefty, that meant that Moeller would start. (Personally, I would start Ross today, and give him tomorrow off, with Valentin catching Monday. But that would defeat the purpose of having Moeller on the roster.)

I think that the Reds need to start the best lineup they can, every game, until they break this losing streak. Against a lefty, the best possible lineup is:

Freel cf
Phillips 2b
Griffey rf
Encarnacion 3b
Dunn lf
Conine 1b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Saarloos p

[BCubb2003]

Krivsky: "Improvement from within, quit talking the negative talk, stop trying too hard."

[Matt700wlw]

So they can lose that way too? :devil:

It'd be something different :)

[Matt700wlw]

Krivsky: "Improvement from within, quit talking the negative talk, stop trying too hard."

So in other words, same crap, new day

[membengal]

Krivsky: "Improvement from within, quit talking the negative talk, stop trying too hard."

Let the winning begin!

[Marc D]

The Reds need to get in a fight today

Someone would get a cut, it would get infected, ganggreene would set in and amputation would result. Worse part is it wouldn't be Stanton or Lohse's arms.

[Matt700wlw]

...and so it begins

:lol:

[Big Klu]

When is the last time the Reds scored first?!

[Matt700wlw]

Saarloos isn't foolin' a soul

[membengal]

They're gonna get blown out again, aren't they? It's almost like fate is toying with WK and Cast now. Kinda amusing, frankly.

[Matt700wlw]

Moeller got his....uh..."bells" rung.

[Big Klu]

I just looked it up. The last time the Reds scored first was a week ago today, in the 5-3 loss at Cleveland. This is the seventh consecutive game that the opposition has scored first.

[SteelSD]

Moeller just took a foul ball to the...um...parts.

Kind of sums up the season thus far.

[oneupper]

I just looked it up. The last time the Reds scored first was a week ago today, in the 5-3 loss at Cleveland. This is the seventh consecutive game that the opposition has scored first.

Not surprised. Poor pitching and poor top of the order hitting.

[Marc D]

Moeller just took a foul ball to the...um...parts.

Kind of sums up the season thus far.


He now knows how we feel everynight.

[Big Klu]

5-0. Awful. Just awful.

[Reds Fanatic]

A 3 run upper deck homer and the Reds are already down 5-0 before an out is even made.

[Matt700wlw]

If anybody has plans today, I'd go ahead and keep them.

[SteelSD]

Saarloos now @25 pitches and hasn't acquired an Out yet.

Bay homers and the boos are deafening.

[smith288]

Ssaaaarrllooooss wouldnt fool my 13 mos old.

[oneupper]

The only ground ball so far was Moeller's "ground ball"

[Falls City Beer]

Can anyone with even a remotely straight face say that Wayne Krivsky's done a better job than Dan O'Brien?

[membengal]

Saarloos now @25 pitches and hasn't acquired an Out yet.

Bay homers and the boos are deafening.


Krivsky: "Improvement from within, quit talking the negative talk, stop trying too hard."

[SteelSD]

If anybody has plans today, I'd go ahead and keep them.

Not yet. I'm watching the game and looking for the "little" victories.

Y'know, like an Out?

[Big Klu]

Chris, let Saarloos have the emery board. The fans need the Vaseline.

[Matt700wlw]

Ssaaaarrllooooss wouldnt fool my 13 mos old.

Your 13 month old is scrappy

[membengal]

Still hasn't recorded an out, has he?

[Virginia Beach Reds]

This is funny. Pour it on Buccos. The sad sack Reds will take it with a smile :cry:

[Reds Fanatic]

Quite a start to this game. A walk, double,single,single,home run,single

[jojo]

Reds....meet Mr. R. Bottom

[CTA513]

Is Santos up in the bullpen?

[Virginia Beach Reds]

the singles were bloopers. just found some grass where the Reds fielders weren't standing on.

[Eric_Davis]

http://www.writing.ucsb.edu/faculty/donelan/Vesuvius_in_Eruption.jpg

[SteelSD]

Still hasn't recorded an out, has he?

No. In fact, I'm not sure he's recorded a good pitch yet.

[oneupper]

Make it simple for Narron. Start Santos..every day.

[smith288]

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/downloads/pics/gasoline.jpg

[CTA513]

Still hasn't recorded an out, has he?

Nope and his pitch count is getting up and the Reds might as well just put Santos in because Saarloos isn't doing anything.

[Reds Fanatic]

Now another walk and Saarloos is done before even recording an out.

[jojo]

Saarloos won't be getting any Christmas cards from the Narron family this holiday season...

[Matt700wlw]

And Saarloos' day is done....


Too bad the AAA pitchers aren't "ready" yet...

[SteelSD]

Saarloos being pulled. I'd like to say "mercifully", but there's nothing merciful about it.

[Big Klu]

Is Santos up in the bullpen?

Santos is now in.

Look for Saarloos to be available as the long man in the bullpen Tuesday and/or Wednesday, until his next turn comes up (if it comes up).

[membengal]

There are so few reasons to keep watching this team nowadays. That's what WK should be proudest of. A losing team that is uninteresting and holds no hope for the future. That's tough to accomplish in such a short time. Props, WK. Props.

[CTA513]

Doesn't Saarloos have options left?
If so send him to AAA and bring up another starter.

[Stormy]

Krivsky: "Improvement from within, quit talking the negative talk, stop trying too hard."

Just goes to show that cliches don't actually accomplish anything. There is no "internal improvement" to the dysfunctional units on this current roster, "talking negative" has absolutely no bearing on making bad pitchers better, and not "trying too hard" isn't going transform a shallow bullpen, a poorly constructed bench, or an inconsistent lineup. Krivsky's cliches aren't going to be an effective substitute for a positive organizational gameplan.

[oneupper]

Why take Saarloos out? Does Narron actually expect to win this game?
(and if they won...would it matter?)

[KronoRed]

Can anyone with even a remotely straight face say that Wayne Krivsky's done a better job than Dan O'Brien?
At least Wayne hasn't been spotted laughing it up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Kronosb/1.jpg

[RBA]

RedsZone Lawyers,

There must be away for me to get out of my MLB Extra Innings contract. HELP! Can I sue for mental distress?

[CTA513]

Why take Saarloos out? Does Narron actually expect to win this game?
(and if they won...would it matter?)

Probably because he couldn't get anyone out and his pitch count was near 40.

[Eric_Davis]

Everyone at the ballpark should stand up in mass and go home.

[Matt700wlw]

Marty after the pitching change break...

"Well, the nightmare continues at Great American Ballpark..."

[membengal]

Shame on WK for this.

[RBA]

2 outs on one play!

[Reds Fanatic]

Finally a DP for the first outs of the game.

[smith288]

Everyone at the ballpark should stand up in mass and go home.
Upper Mgmt wouldnt care, they already paid.

[oneupper]

And THAT Mr. Saarloos is a ground ball.

[Big Klu]

Why take Saarloos out? Does Narron actually expect to win this game?
(and if they won...would it matter?)

Saarloos just didn't have it. Bering Santos in to change the energy of the game (otherwise, the first inning might never end). Put Saarloos in Santos' spot in the bullpen the next 2-3 days.

[jojo]

This from Cyclone's series preview thread (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58453):


Zach Duke (LH)
Duke is a former #34 top prospect as judged by Baseball America that rocketed thru the Pirates’ system by displaying excellent command of all of his pitches and a surprisingly advanced understanding of how to pitch given his age. He features an exceptionally nasty biting curve that intimidates lefties and results in pronounced groundball tendencies, an above average though not overpowering fastball (91-93 mph) and a mediocre change. He also has an exceptional pickoff move. Righties fair better against him then lefties. He has all of the potential be a reasonable version of Tom Glavine but has yet to establish himself on the major league level. If Homer had Duke’s command and pitchability, Homer would be a dominating #1.

Five righties in the Reds lineup and Duke has struggled this season. The Pirates shouldn't be expected to run away with this 5 run lead. However, the Reds are deadmen walking right now. Obviously advantage Duke.

:(

[oneupper]

Saarloos just didn't have it. Bering Santos in to change the energy of the game (otherwise, the first inning might never end). Put Saarloos in Santos' spot in the bullpen the next 2-3 days.

I understand. Thought he might be capable of getting the pitcher out (and maybe 2 innings...)

[SteelSD]

Alright...side retired.

The bad: 5 Runs for the Pirates
The good: It wasn't 6

[LoganBuck]

I flipped over before the first pitch, and was watching the Indy 500 for awhile, 27 laps later the top of the first was still going on.

[oneupper]

This from Cyclone's series preview thread (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58453):



Five righties in the Reds lineup and Duke has struggled this season. The Pirates shouldn't be expected to run away with this 5 run lead. However, the Reds are deadmen walking right now. Obviously advantage Duke.

:(

Freel is hitting .153 vs. LHP this season.

[RedsManRick]

I can't decide whether to laugh or cry. I honestly cannot remember being so frustrated with this team in my life. Let's hope at least the offense gets it going so that something productive comes out of this game.

[letsgojunior]

This team is just awful.

[smith288]

How many games have we started giving up the lead first and to turn around and do nothing our turn at bat?

[Stormy]

This from Cyclone's series preview thread (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58453):

Five righties in the Reds lineup and Duke has struggled this season. However, the Reds are deadmen walking right now. Obviously advantage Duke.

:(

I know. That's my regret, as well.

I was looking forward to today's lineup finally getting untracked versus a very hittable LHP. However, this type of "start" by a Reds' pitcher, is just the type of morale killer that can signal for a Reds' offense to mail it in. Hopefully that's not the case, as I really expected us to pound Duke (while also expecting the Bucs to pound Saarloos) today. I thought today might be a nice breakout game for EE, in particular.

Meanwhile the Reds' record 3 outs on a mere handful of pitches. :(

[Reds Fanatic]

An easy 1-2-3 first for Duke. Reds continue to make the worst pitchers in the league look like Cy Young.

[Cyclone792]

I can't decide whether to laugh or cry. I honestly cannot remember being so frustrated with this team in my life. Let's hope at least the offense gets it going so that something productive comes out of this game.

My hope right now is that some sort of once-in-a-generation talent due to graduate/enter the draft in 2008 develops between now and then. This season has long been in the toilet; might as well gun for that #1 overall pick and hope a beast is in the draft.

Then again, that would still require a competent front office savvy enough to draft said beast.

[Stormy]

Freel is hitting .153 vs. LHP this season.

As much as I like Freel getting 4-5 starts a week as a supersub, and versatile bench anchor, he's again been completely exposed as a fraud as an everyday starter and leadoff hitter. His ABs versus LHP are abhorrent this season, akin to having a second pitcher batting in the lineup (no offense to Lohse).

[jojo]

I thought in zombie movies everyone becomes a zombie except one geek, one prep star and a hot chick....

The reds give up a 5 spot (95% of all innings in the mlb result in fewer than 3 runs BTW) then respond by only pressing Duke for 9 pitches in their half of the inning. My question: why aren't the Pirates zombies too?

[Reds Fanatic]

2nd inning starts off just as bad with a leadoff double.

[membengal]

The line between where it is now and a double digit laugher is very, very thin at the moment...

Great point on Freel, Stormy.

At the very least, I will be a happier fan when Hobbs gets back from his gastro issues. I miss looking forward to his at-bats.

[Stormy]

My hope right now is that some sort of once-in-a-generation talent due to graduate/enter the draft in 2008 develops between now and then. This season has long been in the toilet; might as well gun for that #1 overall pick and hope a beast is in the draft.

What is that called, the Celtic strategy? Good thing there is no lottery in the MLB draft, in that case. Regardless, I'm afraid we'd likely bypass the can't miss prodigy, in classic Stubbs over Lincecum fashion.

[letsgojunior]

I think I may go see a movie, or balance my checkbook, or even read the Internal Revenue Code, instead of watching the Reds.

[oneupper]

Watching the Bucs get hit after hit makes me think...why can't we do that?

Pirate envy? :eek:

[jojo]

man on third and sanchez is a contact hitter while Santos pitches to contact...

There's a good chance a run scores...

[Reds Fanatic]

Sac. fly makes it 6-0.

[jojo]

and there it is...

[KronoRed]

Freel is hitting .153 vs. LHP this season.

Glad we gave him that long term deal :thumbup:

[Eric_Davis]

My hope right now is that some sort of once-in-a-generation talent due to graduate/enter the draft in 2008 develops between now and then. This season has long been in the toilet; might as well gun for that #1 overall pick and hope a beast is in the draft.

Then again, that would still require a competent front office savvy enough to draft said beast.

It would be nice if there was an Arod or a Junior.

[Matt700wlw]

Which is more painful?

Watching the Reds are eye gouges?

[oneupper]

Glad we gave him that long term deal :thumbup:

Yeah. I called that one (suprisingly). I think I'm gonna be right and I hate it.

[Big Klu]

Conine with a leadoff single.

Baby steps.

[Stormy]

I think I may go see a movie, or balance my checkbook, or even read the Internal Revenue Code, instead of watching the Reds.

I had tickets for the last 3 games of this series, only to have the trip cancelled for family reasons. I was bummed at the time, but in retrospect, I'm somewhat glad to not be sitting through these half-hearted displays of incompetence. Still, a "bad day at the ballpark is better than..."

Here's hoping that today at least brings an awakening to EE's bat, an end to Dunn's epic 2+ week struggles, and maybe a nice HR for Griff's career totals. What else is this team really playing for anyway? It's not like there are any youngsters getting developmental time on the field, other than the occasional shock treatment in the bullpen.

[Big Klu]

Ironically, Edwin reaches on an E5.

Encarnacion is looking better lately, offensively and defensively.

[KronoRed]

Rally time

[oneupper]

Ironically, Edwin reaches on an E5.

Encarnacion is looking better lately, offensively and defensively.

Edwin also CAN run...at this point I prefer him leading off than Freel.

[RFS62]

Oh dear Lord... I just got in and I see we gave up a 5 spot in the first.

It's groundhog day.

[Cyclone792]

What is that called, the Celtic strategy? Good thing there is no lottery in the MLB draft, in that case. Regardless, I'm afraid we'd likely bypass the can't miss prodigy, in classic Stubbs over Lincecum fashion.

I'm just trying to take Krivsky's advice in not being negative, and that's my way of turning a negative into a positive. ;)

Of course, while I think this team is beyond awful, I'm still not sure it's worst in the majors type of awful ... yet (though it's trying to quickly approach). It'd be just our luck that the Reds pick up a little bit of steam, fall a few spots in the draft to say 4th or 5th, then miss out entirely on any type of draft beast.

[Matt700wlw]

Dunn drives in a run with less than 2 outs.


That's more than a baby step, that's a toddler step!!

[Marc D]

meaningless RBI from Dunn

[Stormy]

Pretty nice AB by Dunn, and a nice job of cutting down some on his swing with 2 strikes: Translates into an RBI single, which is a welcome change from his lack of productivity the last few weeks.

Still plenty of time to torch Duke, but how many more will Santos and Crew surrender to a Pirates lineup smelling blood in the water? 6-1 Bucs.

[Big Klu]

Edwin also CAN run...at this point I prefer him leading off than Freel.

Not a bad idea! I like your "outside-the-box" thinking.

[mth123]

DP Run scores. I guess with Moeller and the Pitcher coming up its just as well to give up 2 outs for a run.

[KronoRed]

I think we'll score more then 6 today

[letsgojunior]

Oh dear Lord... I just got in and I see we gave up a 5 spot in the first.

It's groundhog day.

So, how do you feel about Edskin having the screenname "ILOVERFS?"

[jojo]

chad put up a good fight...

[Stormy]

It's groundhog day.

Yea, but without the pleasant distractions of wooing Andie MacDowell, and punching Ned Ryerson. Bing! ;)

[oneupper]

Pretty nice AB by Dunn, and a nice job of cutting down some on his swing with 2 strikes: Translates into an RBI single, which is awelcome change from his lack of productivity the last few weeks.

Still plenty of time to torch Duke, but how many more will Santos and Crew surrender to a Pirates lineup smelling blood in the water? 6-1 Bucs.

We could be looking at a 12-6 final score or something like that.

[RFS62]

So, how do you feel about Edskin having the screenname "ILOVERFS?"


Why, quite naturally I'm thrilled. I'm thinking of putting his picture on my Christmas cards this year.

[RFS62]

Yea, but without the pleasant distractions of wooing Andie MacDowell, and punching Ned Ryerson. Bing! ;)



True. This feels more like wooing Marge Shott and being punched by Ned Ryerson.

[pedro]

meaningless RBI from Dunn

Is that supposed to be some sort rip on Dunn or just a statement as to the utter hopelessness of this team? Because I've got to tell you, if anybody at this point thinks Dunn is the problem with this team, I really just don't know what to say.

[Aronchis]

I guess that ends the "Saarloos" starter gang. The guy has been inconsistant enough as a bullpen pitcher, but you can just take him out when he struggles in that role.

As I feared:
1.No rotation depth: Matt Belisle, Lohse, Milton whoever blah....
2.Overworked Arroyo
3.Inconsistant Harang=

Worst rotation in the league right now. Though unlike 2001 the Reds have some legit possiblities next year to throw into the rotation and get a look at em, but they probably won't lead the club to a winning record, if that is what the braintrust is thinking........but rebuilding must start somewhere;)

[letsgojunior]

Is that supposed to be some sort rip on Dunn or just a statement as to the utter hopelessness of this team? Because I've got to tell you, if anybody at this point thinks Dunn is the problem with this team, I really just don't know what to say.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone on the team stat padding right now. In fact, I'm shocked that Dunn doesn't have whiplash after that first inning.

[Stormy]

Is that supposed to be some sort rip on Dunn or just a statement as to the utter hopelessness of this team? Because I've got to tell you, if anybody at this point thinks Dunn is the problem with this team, I really just don't know what to say.

I took it for sarcasm, as on a team scuffling this hard, there is no such thing as a meaningless RBI. Dunn's one of the few strengths of this alleged 'team', and it's nice to see him showing signs of breaking out of the slump that has engulfed him the past few weeks (one that coincides with a 120+ point drop in his OPS over that span).

[mth123]

Santos with a relatively important outing today. This is akin to a start with multiple times through the order potential. A good outing could move him from DFA material to a guy that can be dealt for at least a marginal minor leaguer. I hope the Reds leave him in for a few more innings.

How's that for glass half-full?

[mth123]

I took it for sarcasm, as on a team scuffling this hard, there is no such thing as a meaningless RBI. Dunn's one of the few strengths of this alleged 'team', and it's nice to see him showing signs of breaking out of the slump that has engulfed him the past few weeks (one that coincides with a 120+ point drop in his OPS over that span).

Stormy, you weren't around when I joined. I'm glad you came back. Your posts are great.

[Stormy]

Santos with a relatively important outing today. This is akin to a start with multiple times through the order potential. A good outing could move him from DFA material to a guy that can be dealt for at least a marginal minor leaguer. I hope the Reds leave him in for a few more innings.

How's that for glass half-full?

Perhaps another game akin to his 4IP 1ER outing in relief of our early 6-0 deficit to the Nationals last week, holding further damage at bay while we battled our way back to an 8-7 victory? Improves Santos' value, and helps his club in the process. There, that's my attempt for the day at following Krivsky's exhortation to "Stop the negative talk."

[KronoRed]

Is that supposed to be some sort rip on Dunn or just a statement as to the utter hopelessness of this team? Because I've got to tell you, if anybody at this point thinks Dunn is the problem with this team, I really just don't know what to say.

I took it as a sarcastic remark referencing people who say that Dunn only drives in runs when the Reds are way ahead or behind

[smith288]

Getting the Pirates tired of running around the basepaths in order to make them realize how unfit they are only to hurt their morale.

There is my nugget of positivity.

[Stormy]

Stormy, you weren't around when I joined. I'm glad you came back. Your posts are great.

Thanks for the 'welcome back', mth123. I've already enjoyed reading your perspectives on the state of this franchise as well, and have mostly found myself agreeing with them across the board. Doesn't hurt that your avatar features a man who is easily my all-time favorite professional athlete. Here's to a turnaround of this organization's fortunes in the near future. :beerme:

[Aronchis]

You know you must suck when the Pirates are beating the crap out of you. My guess Cast/Wayne's "worst case possiblities" outline, this would probably be it.

[TeamCasey]

I don't even know to express my feelings this year. Not a glimmer of hope. It's getting comical now.

[SteelSD]

Pirates leadoff hitter reaches in the 4th.

Santos tries to get the next hitter out by not thinking negative thoughts.

[jojo]

There, that's my attempt for the day at following Krivsky's exhortation to "Stop the negative talk."

Well the weather is nice today...

[TeamCasey]

Hi Red Storm :)

[Eric_Davis]

Positive spin:

No RED has struck out this game.

[Matt700wlw]

Somebody is coming around

:ede:

:jump:

[KronoRed]

Positive spin:

No RED has struck out this game.

Then victory is assured.

[Eric_Davis]

Whoo hoo.....

Wow, I'm excited.

[jojo]

take that fickle gods of the baseball diamond.... Edwin DEFIES your will...

[Stormy]

Pirates leadoff hitter reaches in the 4th.

Santos tries to get the next hitter out by not thinking negative thoughts.

Laugh all you want, it worked! Obviously, Krivsky's starting to get through to these guys. ;)

Hi, TeamCasey.

Yaah ~ E.E. blasts one to LF. That's just what he needed. 7-3.

[redsfan30]

It's early enough that if they can hold the Pirates off the board, they can still win the game.

Hey, gotta find something to get me through this Sunday afternoon.

[membengal]

Santos tries to get the next hitter out by not thinking negative thoughts.


Hee.

Santos: "If I close my eyes, it's like I am playing for Pittsburgh again."

[Eric_Davis]

Anyone who's watching....

Who's the first to greet EE after his homerun?

[Matt700wlw]

:dunn:

:jump:

Back to back again!!

[RFS62]

Another rally killer by Dunn

[KronoRed]

It's the Pirates, they are cursed too ;)

[TeamCasey]

Hmmmmmmm .... can I believe again?

[Eric_Davis]

Double Woohoo.....

I'm doubly excited.

[SandyD]

Dunn makes up for his nonmeaningful RBI with a rally-killing nonmeaningful solo shot HR. :D

[Stormy]

E.E. and Dunn back-to-back. 2 of 3 'game objectives' achieved, in terms of getting Dunn and E.E. untracked. Now get Griff one for good measure, and stage the late comeback win, and we'll call it a day.

This Krivsky positive thinking mantra is really starting to work wonders. :)

[Aronchis]

Pirates "young" pitching isn't very good. At least the Reds fluff has a right to suck;)

[Eric_Davis]

The Mole will come through.

[Eric_Davis]

This is not the time to bat Santos, Narron.

[redsfan30]

Great bunt!

Santos over the last week has given this team a HUGE shot in the arm.

[letsgojunior]

Well the weather is nice today...

It's a little hot and humid here though. I'm just not cut out for these positive thoughts.

Hey Jaws is on! Quinn and Hooper just attached the barrels to the shark - obviously a failed operation, but still more intriguing than watching the Reds.

Later everyone!

[redsfan30]

Come on, Ryan!

Need a big knock here!

[Eric_Davis]

Are you frickin' kidding me? Narron gives away an out when Duke can't get anyone out?

Please fire the bum now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel drives in a run. 7-5.

[Matt700wlw]

I'd like to see the Reds get the lead so I can see what tricks they have up their sleeve to blow it today.

[jojo]

Narron just came running back down the tunnel into the dugout....maybe packing the boxes can wait for another day?

[redsfan30]

Are you frickin' kidding me? Narron gives away an out when Duke can't get anyone out?

Please fire the bum now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Why pull Santos now? He's the only one who can give you anything out of the bullpen.

It's still only the 4th inning. You need at least one more, hopefully two more innings from him.

He did his job. He moved the runners up and allowed Freel to drive one in.

[Eric_Davis]

I guess he wants Santos pitching two more innings.

[37red]

Matt...., thanks for the laugh

[redsfan30]

I guess he wants Santos pitching two more innings.

You almost have to. Santos has done a great job and it's not exactly like there's anyone else down in the pen that I'm just dying to have come in.

[Big Klu]

Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Adam Dunn - 211
7. Eric Davis - 203
8. Barry Larkin - 198
9. Vada Pinson - 186
10. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 176
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

[Eric_Davis]

Why pull Santos now? He's the only one who can give you anything out of the bullpen.

It's still only the 4th inning. You need at least one more, hopefully two more innings from him.

He did his job. He moved the runners up and allowed Freel to drive one in.

Because Phillips got out and left two runners on and the inning is over. Whoever would have pinch-hit probably would have gotten on base like the player after Santos did and the four players before him did.

[jojo]

Are you frickin' kidding me? Narron gives away an out when Duke can't get anyone out?

Please fire the bum now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Ya but your right handed bench guys are castro, ross and hopper...

I still would've taken my four innings from Santos and ran like you suggest and played for a huge inning but I don't think this move that was a mortal sin per se....

[redsfan30]

Whoever would have pinch-hit probably would have gotten on base like the player after Santos did and the four players before him did.

There is no way to make that assumption.

[Eric_Davis]

You almost have to. Santos has done a great job and it's not exactly like there's anyone else down in the pen that I'm just dying to have come in.


There's five other arms down there. You have to trust them. They will probably pitch as well as Santo will the next two innings.

[Eric_Davis]

Bay singles. Great move letting Santos waste an out.

[Eric_Davis]

There is no way to make that assumption.


Sure you can. All living is based upon assumptions. You go through every day living on assumptions.

[KronoRed]

I say 10 runs will win this game.

[Eric_Davis]

Nice wild pitch. So glad Santos is in there.

[redsfan30]

Sure you can. All living is based upon assumptions. You go through every day living on assumptions.

Ok, then I'm going to assume that Santos will do what he's done in the other innings. Give up some baserunners but get out of the inning.

[Eric_Davis]

Narron killed the rally all by himself.

It probably would have been 7-6 with Junior coming up with two men on and a chance to tie the game or give them a lead.

[Eric_Davis]

Santos is at 65 pitches and won't get through the inning without being pulled by Narron, thus justifying what a dumb move it was to let him give away an out, or Narron will leave him in and he'll give up another run.

[redsfan30]

I can just hear you now, Eric.

"Narron sends up CASTRO to hit for Santos????? Fire the bum!!!!!"

The options on the bench aren't that great.

Santos did exactly what he was supposed to do and it led to a run.

[Matt700wlw]

This is going well

[jojo]

yep....like I said....take your 4 innings from Santos and run,,,,,,

[membengal]

At 4 1/3 innings, seven hits and three runs, Santos has not exactly shut the Pirates down, that's for sure.

[redsfan30]

Yep, they gave up runs (go ahead and pound your chest, Eric)

Still the right move, in my opinion.

[guttle11]

Nothing you can do but :laugh:

[Eric_Davis]

I can just hear you now, Eric.

"Narron sends up CASTRO to hit for Santos????? Fire the bum!!!!!"

The options on the bench aren't that great.

Santos did exactly what he was supposed to do and it led to a run.

Norris Hopper. The guy's a pinch-hit dynamo. And Valentine has a ton of pinch-hit HR's.

[Eric_Davis]

Oh, yeah.

So glad Santos is pitching this inning.

[redsfan30]

Norris Hopper. The guy's a pinch-hit dynamo. And Valentine has a ton of pinch-hit HR's.

Why blow those guns in the 4th inning?

[membengal]

Oooof.

That whole half inning goes in poster Eric Davis' celestial TOLD YOU SO column. Well down, Eric. I will grant you were absolutely 100% correct. Yeesh.

[flyer85]

Santos pitched 1 inning yesterday and Narron tried to get 5IP today.

Anyone care to describe that?

[Eric_Davis]

Santos really shut down those Pirates today.

4.1 innings, 8 hits, 5 Earned Runs.

Narron is a human rally killer.

Narron has to be axed.

Chop off the head.

[membengal]

Santos pitched 1 inning yesterday and Narron tried to get 5IP today.

Anyone care to describe that?\

I am going back to this same well:

Incompetent?

[flyer85]

The options on the bench aren't that great.
especially from the right side.

[guttle11]

Santos pitched 1 inning yesterday and Narron tried to get 5IP today.

Anyone care to describe that?

It's a family friendly website, right?

[oneupper]

Gee...Santos running out of gas after 4 innings...who've thunk it.

Good thing we had him lay down a bunt in the previous inning and not given Ross(or hopper) a shot.

[mth123]

Santos with a relatively important outing today. This is akin to a start with multiple times through the order potential. A good outing could move him from DFA material to a guy that can be dealt for at least a marginal minor leaguer. I hope the Reds leave him in for a few more innings.

How's that for glass half-full?

OK. Back to DFA territory.

Staying with glass half-full theory. Its easier to let him go now.

[SteelSD]

Santos pitched 1 inning yesterday and Narron tried to get 5IP today.

Anyone care to describe that?

I'd try, but this is a family board.

<edit: GAH! guttle beat me to the punchline...>

[jojo]

Santos is at 65 pitches and won't get through the inning without being pulled by Narron, thus justifying what a dumb move it was to let him give away an out, or Narron will leave him in and he'll give up another run.

What do you think about Santos' bunt??????? :cool:

[membengal]

Matt...has Jerry headed back down the tunnel to go back to packing boxes?

[flyer85]

Santo really shut down those Pirates today.

4.1 innings, 8 hits, 5 Earned Runs.He did fine 2 ER and 4IP til the managed asked more than any could have expected. When was the time you have heard of a Reds reliever pitch 5+ innings while pitching back to back games?

[flyer85]

OK. Back to DFA territory.

Staying with glass half-full theory. Its easier to let him go now.Santos is not bad in the long relief role ... DFA Saarloos and Stanton.

[Eric_Davis]

Why blow those guns in the 4th inning?

I assume you're being sarcastic.

But, if you're not, then you have to feel what all of us were feeling here on the board. There was a momentum swing that the REDS hadn't felt in a while, and everyone was playing a part.

If you let the bench and the rest of the bullpen do their part, they will catch the wave, too.

This was identical to letting Weathers go out in the 10th the other day. He had nothing left, like Santos had nothing left.

Santos was luck to get through his 4th inning today.

The Head of this team has to be chopped off, and since it's a totem pole of Narron, Krivsky, and Castelline, I'd start with Narron's.

[jojo]

Yep, they gave up runs (go ahead and pound your chest, Eric)

Still the right move, in my opinion.

Like I said earlier, that decision was probably a coin toss type of thing by alot of managers.... I would've still played for the big inning but my bias is that I abhor a bunt more than nature abhors a vacuum. Ross had a good chance of being able to drive one against Duke.

[mth123]

He did fine 2 ER and 4IP til the managed asked more than any could have expected. When was the time you have heard of a Reds reliever pitch 5+ innings while pitching back to back games?

You're right. I was in favor of leaving him in, but since I stopped paying attention to last night's game I didn't realize he pitched yesterday. Had I known ...

[Stormy]

Santos really shut down those Pirates today.

4.1 innings, 8 hits, 5 Earned Runs.

Narron is a human rally killer.

Narron has to be axed.

Chop off the head.

I leave for 10 minutes, and your 'negative talk' completely undermines all of Santos' efforts!! ;) Obviously, I like the idea of taking your 4IPs from Santos and running, giving your so-called 'bench' bats a chance to prolong our first productive rally inning of the series. Too bad Jerry Narron (the tail, not the head) has to obsessively ride everything effective into the ground until it collapses. Might as well just carry 3-4 arms down in the BP, the way he pummels the 'hot hand.'

[oneupper]

Santos pitched 1 inning yesterday and Narron tried to get 5IP today.

Anyone care to describe that?

It's greed. Narron will constantly try to squeeze every ounce out something that's relatively good. So a batter gets hot (like Gonzo) and he hits 5th.
A pitcher is doing relatively well...he hits...goes that extra inning.

[redsfan30]

Like I said earlier, that decision was probably a coin toss type of thing by alot of managers.... I would've still played for the big inning but my bias is that I abhor a bunt more than nature abhors a vacuum. Ross had a good chance of being able to drive one against Duke.

I can see both sides, but I think Narron made the right move. I don't like wasting a big gun in the 4th inning of a game where the score now probably isn't going to be the final score.

I'd much rather have Hopper or Ross available in the 8th or 9th as a potential tying run than use them in the 4th and be stuck with Castro or someone like that.

[flyer85]

Jerry has never understood the concept of pressing your luck

[mth123]

Santos is not bad in the long relief role ... DFA Saarloos and Stanton.

OK them too. I agree Santos is in line behind those guys and Lohse and Milton too IMO, but I want them all gone by the end of June.

[Eric_Davis]

What do you think about Santos' bunt??????? :cool:

Well, it was a perfect bunt against a pitcher who hadn't struck out anybody all day and we'd just had back-to-back HR's off of him followed by two more hits.

With one out already and your reliever out of gas, that's not a situation where you give away an out to more two runners from 1st and 2nd to 2nd and 3rd.

[Matt700wlw]

Jerry has never understood the concept of pressing your luck

http://www.gameshow-galaxy.net/images/DzlItem261.jpg

[Big Klu]

Jerry has never understood the concept of pressing your luck

Big Bucks! No Whammies!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/00/Pressyourluckboard.jpg

[Falls City Beer]

As I said a while ago: wait till the weather warms up.

[oneupper]

No whammies!

http://i.xanga.com/penncashcow/whammy.jpg

[Eric_Davis]

So, in an inning where there's potential to get the REDS out of his horrible, god-awful slump, his sacrificial sacrifice left Junior standing in the on-deck circle with multiple runners on base.

I was one of the last to get on board with the "Narron should be replaced" idea, but having been on board the last week or so, it's past time to pull the trigger.

[KronoRed]

Good work team on the press you luck references :D

[Eric_Davis]

Narron is Calypso!

And the REDS are the Flying Dutchman going down the Whirlpool while the Pirate ship Black Pearl does it's damage and sails away.

[Eric_Davis]

I leave for 10 minutes, and your 'negative talk' completely undermines all of Santos' efforts!! ;) Obviously, I like the idea of taking your 4IPs from Santos and running, giving your so-called 'bench' bats a chance to prolong our first productive rally inning of the series. Too bad Jerry Narron (the tail, not the head) has to obsessively ride everything effective into the ground until it collapses. Might as well just carry 3-4 arms down in the BP, the way he pummels the 'hot hand.'

Sorry, Stormy, but your name could be appropriately changed to "Narron".

[Eric_Davis]

Maybe Narron is "The Cooler".

[Aronchis]

Wow, 30 runs to the bashing Pirates, reminds me of the Dodgers series from 2001.

[KronoRed]

Narron is Calypso!

And the REDS are the Flying Dutchman going down the Whirlpool while the Pirate ship Black Pearl does it's damage and sails away.

We need Captain Jack

[Matt700wlw]

:jump:

[guttle11]

If nothing else, you'll get to see plenty of dingers if you head to GABP this summer.

A few of them may even be hit by the Reds.

[oneupper]

looks like my 12-6 prediction will be short.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez makes it 11-6 with his 10th homer of the year.

[Big Klu]

Ross is on deck to pinch-hit for Coutlangus. I would leave him in the game and put the new pitcher in Moeller's #8 spot.

[guttle11]

Moeller does what he does.

Ross PHing two innings late.

[jojo]

I can see both sides, but I think Narron made the right move. I don't like wasting a big gun in the 4th inning of a game where the score now probably isn't going to be the final score.

I'd much rather have Hopper or Ross available in the 8th or 9th as a potential tying run than use them in the 4th and be stuck with Castro or someone like that.

I think the best managers identify high leverage situations that could impact the outcome of the game and they use their best available for those situations. Your approach begs the question that an even higher leverage situation will occur later in the game (i.e that there would by an opportunity to tie the game later). I think it's a classic mistake made all too often by managers playing it close to the vest and by the book.

[CTA513]

It would be nice if they hit more than just solo homeruns.

[oneupper]

Ross is on deck to pinch-hit for Coutlangus. I would leave him in the game and put the new pitcher in Moeller's #8 spot.

I'd use Hopper here. Need baserunnes.

[flyer85]

why would you PH Ross now? He matched up much better against Duke and their were 2 runners on.

[guttle11]

I think the best managers identify high leverage situations that could impact the outcome of the game and they use their best available for those situations. Your approach begs the question that an even higher leverage situation will occur later in the game (i.e that there would by an opportunity to tie the game later). I think it's a classic mistake made all too often by managers playing it close to the vest and by the book.

He's a "baseball" guy, and that's what "baseball" guys do.

I would post something more insightful, but I think that's the actual answer.

[oneupper]

why would you PH Ross now? He matched up much better against Duke and their were 2 runners on.

Cause you didn't use him then?

[Big Klu]

I think the best managers identify high leverage situations that could impact the outcome of the game and they use their best available for those situations. Your approach begs the question that an even higher leverage situation will occur later in the game (i.e that there would by an opportunity to tie the game later). I think it's a classic mistake made all too often by managers playing it close to the vest and by the book.

Very true. Remember last year when Eric Wedge used Travis Hafner to pinch-hit in the fifth inning, and he came through with the grand slam. Sometimes the key moment in the game comes earlier than you might think.

[jojo]

this from cyclone series preview thread (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58453):



Tony Armas (RH)
Once a promising arm, Armas’ career has been plagued by shoulder problems and poor command. This season he lost his starting job to Chacon. Enough said?

Rejoice Reds fans everywhere....hope is reborn....

[flyer85]

Cause you didn't use him then?how silly of me, Jer is so smart. :bang:

[CTA513]

Freel is getting near his average near .250

[Big Klu]

I'd use Hopper here. Need baserunnes.

And wouldn't you know it? Ross provides one.

Then he is erased on an inning-ending DP by Freel. :(

[oneupper]

how silly of me, Jer is so smart. :bang:

I forget sometimes, too..

[CTA513]

Salmon now pitching the 7th.
Maybe they will call for more than fastballs from him?

[guttle11]

Quick question...5 days from now, who starts?

Saarloos
Santos
Dumatrait
Bailey

Other?

[flyer85]

Freel is getting near his average near .250
and without getting walks

[KronoRed]

Quick question...5 days from now, who starts?

Saarloos
Santos
Dumatrait
Bailey

Other?

I'm going with Other

[Big Klu]

I'm sorry, but Ross has to stay in the game! As bad as he has been, he is a much better offensive player than Moeller! Ross should stay in the #9 spot, and Salmon should be in the #8 spot. It should now be:

Freel cf
Phillips 2b
Griffey rf
Conine 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Dunn lf
Gonzalez ss
Salmon p
Ross c

[flyer85]

Quick question...5 days from now, who starts?

Saarloos
Santos
Dumatrait
Bailey

Other?It's the Reds, the answer is Saarloos

[Big Klu]

That was quick!

[guttle11]

Nice inning by Salmon. Really good stuff.

More please.

[Stormy]

Ryan Freel's troubling lack of production continues, compounded by his considerably lowered walk rate so far this year, and his horrid baserunning.

Post All-Star Break 2006: 220ABs .238 340/350 690OPS
This Year-to-Date 2007: 177ABs .256 318/370 688OPS

Personally, upon Hamilton's return, I'd like to see Freel return to 4+ starts a week, spelling JH, EE, BP, and returning to his off-the-bench role. He has the ability to be a catalyst at times, but seemingly not as an everyday player.

[Big Klu]

Ryan Freel's troubling lack of production continues, compounded by his considerably lowered walk rate so far this year, and his horrid baserunning.

Post All-Star Break 2006: 220ABs .238 340/350 690OPS
This Year-to-Date 2007: 177ABs .256 318/370 688OPS

Personally, upon Hamilton's return, I'd like to see Freel return to 4+ starts a week, spelling JH, EE, BP, and returning to his bench role. He has the ability to be a catalyst at times, but seemingly not as an everyday player.

I agree. I think the Reds' best lineup is:

Hamilton cf
Phillips 2b
Griffey rf
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Hatteberg/Conine 1b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
<pitcher>

Whenever Ross gets a day off, then Valentin/Moeller hits eighth. (Though I would consider hitting Lohse or Milton ahead of Moeller.)

When Freel starts (2-3 times a week, until he gets straightened out, then maybe 3-4 times a week), he hits first, and Hamilton moves to the spot of the player Freel is replacing.

[Reds Fanatic]

Leadoff double for Phillips.

[Wheelhouse]

If you want to start Freel everyday, he should be a #8 hitter. The low OBP and caught stealing takes him out of being a legit leadoff.

[Reds Fanatic]

Conine with a broken bat single makes it 11-7.

[KronoRed]

If Freel can't lead off then he's not worth starting when Hamilton comes back

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn with his 2nd homer of the game makes it 11-9!

[KronoRed]

15 might be needed for a victory today :clap:

[Matt700wlw]

:dunn:

:jump:

[Big Klu]

Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Adam Dunn - 212
7. Eric Davis - 203
8. Barry Larkin - 198
9. Vada Pinson - 186
10. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 176
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

[Stormy]

Dunn has been spot-on versus every type of pitcher he's faced today, be it LHP, RHP, sidearm reliever etc... Great work by Dunn.

11-9 Bucs, who had 15-12 in the pool?

[letsgojunior]

Good for Dunn - him and Jr are like my sole reasons for watching this team anymore.

[flyer85]

As an aside ... I rarely remember my dreams but I had a nightmare about the Reds the other night. WK traded Dunn to Colorado for Todd Helton.