6/3/07 Reds vs Rockies thread

[RedsMan3203]

The Sunday Speical....

Reds lineup:
Hopper lf
Hatteberg 1b
Griffey rf
Encarnacion 3b
Gonzalez ss
Wise cf
Castro 2b
Moeller c
Belisle p


Notes from Trent.


DENVER -- Beautiful day out here in the mountains, but Josh Hamilton isn't seeing it. Hamilton is completing his assignment in Durham today. He'll join the team in St. Louis.

Wayne Krivsky said he didn't think it was best for Hamilton to fly out here for one game. His first coupel fo games back Hamilton told Krivsky his legs weren't quite under him yet.

"It didn’t seem like the wise and prudent thing to do to go through all that travel for one game. If he’d been eligible for Friday that would be a different," Krivsky said. "Based on everything he went through physically, it didn’t make sense to do it for one game. I'm sure I'll get criticized for that, but that goes with the territory -- have a little wider lens than one game, you’ve got to put it all together and it’s the smart thing to do."

Krivsky also said he talked to Eddie Guardado, who threw a perfect 1-2-3 inning for the Dayton Dragons last night. Guardado told him he felt fine.

"He hasn’t gone back-to-back yet," Krivsky said. "We want to get him some time in a higher level. The trainers have been through this kind of stuff before."

Yeah, it's Homer on Saturday.

"It's TBA, not TBD," Narron said.

Meaning the pitcher is to be announced, not to be determined.

Nobody said it was Homer, but reading between the lines it was very obvious.

[Matt700wlw]

According to Narron's pregame comments, Griffey is sitting today...unless something has changed in the past few minutes...

[alloverjr]

What would really be swell is if he started Conine in RF for Griffey. This could be the worst conceivable lineup you could post from this roster. Inexcuseable really.

[RedsMan3203]

I don't think JN is dumb enough to sit JR today..... Edwin is starting to hit the ball but thats it...


You have to have some thunder in the lineup.....

Todays lineup will score like 12 runs.

[Ron Madden]

[QUOTE=RedsMan3203;1370845]The Sunday Speical....

Reds lineup:
Hopper lf
Hatteberg 1b
Griffey rf
Encarnacion 3b
Gonzalez ss
Wise cf
Castro 2b
Moeller c
Belisle p

This lineup is disgraceful... Don't know what else to say.

[RedsMan3203]

They say.... If you throw enough chit on the wall - something is bound to stick.

[guttle11]

Why in the world would you sit Phillips today? Didn't he just sit a few days ago? No Phillips AND no Dunn? They have an off-day tomorrow, why sit them today?

My oh my.

[membengal]

Beyond disgraceful.

Really, really and truly, an afront to logic and reason and a smack in the face to people that actually care about the Reds.

[pedro]

I have no problem with resting Phillips. Guys need a day off from time to time.

The problem is that Juan Castro is the guy getting him the rest.

[Matt700wlw]

I have no problem with resting Phillips. Guys need a day off from time to time.

The problem is that Juan Castro is the guy getting him the rest.

Tomorrow...off

Next monday..off

the following Thursday...off

And the final Monday of the month...off

[letsgojunior]

So, is Junior starting? If so, I may contemplate watching this. If not, hey I have an entire season of The Wire to watch.

[LawFive]

are they playing a split-squad DH today?

[37red]

I think it's OK to sit Dunn too. He's flabergasted at his poor hitting right now. Maybe if he can watch a game he can get his rythm back. Adam needs a day off, he's really not seeing the ball right now. There is a chance that Castro will get hot, he can, the question is will today be one of them. I guess Narron feels he should give the part timers a shot while they're in Coors field.

[RedsMan3203]

More Notes from Trent


If you're waiting to buy tickets, well, Wayne Krivsky said Homer is a "candidate" and "things can change." Meaning even if Homer is the guy (which it seems like) he could throw Friday, not Saturday. Or he could not be the guy.

Homer's day to pitch is Thursday, so he could pitch on Friday on six days rest instead of Saturday on seventh, allowing Belisle an extra day to "come down" from Colorado's air.

[Matt700wlw]

Since the game is not on yet, turn on ESPN and check out the pitcher for the Arizona Women's softball team

[Matt700wlw]

Since Big Klu won't be with us today...I've been nominated by him to do this...

The lineup from 45 years ago today (1962), a 6-3 loss at Chicago.

Leo Cardenas ss
Marty Keough cf
Frank Robinson rf
Jerry Lynch lf
Gordy Coleman 1b
Don Zimmer 3b
Johnny Edwards c
Don Blasingame 2b
Moe Drabowsky p

[pedro]

Tomorrow...off

Next monday..off

the following Thursday...off

And the final Monday of the month...off

I mean days off when they play. Most players seem to play better when they play about 150 games. That means sitting about 2 games per month.

And just because the team isn't playing a game on a certain day doesn't mean those are really "days off". Lots of time they are traveling on those days which is tiresome if you've ever had to do a lot of it.

[Matt700wlw]

40 years ago today (1967), an 8-7 win at home vs. Atlanta.

Floyd Robinson rf
Vada Pinson cf
Pete Rose lf
Tony Perez 3b
Deron Johnson 1b
Tommy Helms 2b
Johnny Edwards c
Leo Cardenas ss
Billy McCool p

[CTA513]

It would only be better if Conine played RF and Valentin played 1B.

[westofyou]

40 years ago today (1967), an 8-7 win at home vs. Atlanta.

Floyd Robinson rf
Vada Pinson cf
Pete Rose lf
Tony Perez 3b
Deron Johnson 1b
Tommy Helms 2b
Johnny Edwards c
Leo Cardenas ss
Billy McCool p
Billy McCool: Danny Graves Version 1.0

Ten years ago Reds Beat Schilling


Cincinnati Reds Philadelphia Phillies
1. D. Sanders cf Otero cf
2. Goodwin lf Morandini 2b
3. Morris 1b Daulton rf
4. Larkin ss Rolen 3b
5. Taubensee rf Brogna 1b
6. Greene 3b Hudler lf
7. B. Boone 2b Lieberthal c
8. Oliver c Stocker ss
9. Mercker p Schilling p

[RedsMan3203]

Since the game is not on yet, turn on ESPN and check out the pitcher for the Arizona Women's softball team

Are you talking about hott chicks? :evil:

[Puffy]

That is as weak a 6, 7 and 8 as there can ever be. We are talking historical proportions here.

[Matt700wlw]

Are you talking about hott chicks? :evil:

Is that not allowed? ;)

[RedsMan3203]

Is that not allowed? ;)

Not on the zone....


Dunn is out today being under the weather... He was schduled to start....

KGJ was slated to have the day off but with Dunn out of the lineup KGJ gets the start...

[westofyou]

That is as weak a 6, 7 and 8 as there can ever be. We are talking historical proportions here.

Here's a classic from 25 years ago
Cincinnati Reds

1. Milner cf
2. Landestoy 2b
3. Concepcion ss
4. Driessen 1b
5. Walker lf
6. Householder rf
7. Krenchicki 3b
8. Van Gorder c
9. Berenyi p

[Matt700wlw]

Not on the zone....


Dunn is out today being under the weather... He was schduled to start....

KGJ was slated to have the day off but with Dunn out of the lineup KGJ gets the start...

Well I'm glad somebody finally pieced it together for me....I've been getting mixed signals all afternoon.

[RedsMan3203]

Well I'm glad somebody finally pieced it together for me....I've been getting mixed signals all afternoon.

Heard it on the opening of RedsLive from Thom. He always knows what he is talkin about.

[Matt700wlw]

Heard it on the opening of RedsLive from Thom. He always knows what he is talkin about.

He's the man.


I guess the radio station is about to run an inaccurate manager pregame show.


Too late now!! :D

[letsgojunior]

That is as weak a 6, 7 and 8 as there can ever be. We are talking historical proportions here.

Word. I didn't realize how bad it was until looking some of the stats up - but Castro has a 348 OPS and Moeller has a 577. It's almost comical. You could bring in a utility players to pitch and they would still get these guys out.

[pedro]

Castro has made it abundantly clear he has no business being on a major league roster. This year even more than others. The fact that our GM and Manager don't see it is troubling to say the least.

[Stormy]

Here's a classic from 25 years ago
Cincinnati Reds

1. Milner cf
2. Landestoy 2b
3. Concepcion ss
4. Driessen 1b
5. Walker lf
6. Householder rf
7. Krenchicki 3b
8. Van Gorder c
9. Berenyi p

That's the lineup I grew up with, and I loved them despite their lack of prosperity.

I'm just hoping that Redus can unseat Householder or Walker soon, 'cause that guy is going to be a superstar! Can you imagine a #1-2 punch of Milner, Redus setting the table? Plus, Esasky will be here by next season!! Can't wait.

[Matt700wlw]

35 years ago today (1972), a 6-5 10-inning win at Philadelphia.

Pete Rose lf
Joe Morgan 2b
Johnny Bench c
Tony Perez 1b
George Foster rf
Julian Javier 3b
Dave Concepcion ss
Cesar Geronimo cf
Wayne Simpson p

[KronoRed]

I'm just hoping that Redus can unseat Householder or Walker soon, 'cause that guy is going to be a superstar! Can you imagine a #1-2 punch of Milner, Redus setting the table? Plus, Esasky will be here by next season!! Can't wait.
Sounds familiar except with different names ;)

[Matt700wlw]

20 years ago today (1987), a 6-4 win at home vs. St. Louis.

Tracy Jones lf
Barry Larkin ss
Eric Davis cf
Dave Parker rf
Nick Esasky 1b
Bo Diaz c
Dave Concepcion 3b
Ron Oester 2b
Pat Pacillo p

[Stormy]

Castro has made it abundantly clear he has no business being on a major league roster. This year even more than others. The fact that our GM and Manager don't see it is troubling to say the least.

That is always the trouble of the frequent offseason refrains which greet the signing of a Moeller or a Castro, 'it's just a minor league contract' or 'somebody has to be the 25th man'... during the Narron/Krivsky regime, that style of 'play the game right' veteran seems to invariably grab far too many valuable ABs over the course of a season (or IPs out of the 'pen, if we're talking similar washed out vet relievers).

Castro will already have 60ABs by day's end, and that's with the good fortune of a completely 100% middle infield tandem this year-to-date (that's on pace for around 180+ABs this year, or more if AG, BP, or EE miss time). Likewise, Moeller will already likely have 24ABs in the mere 15+ days since he returned. That's just far too many ABs to flush on a team already facing such offensive anemia, and featuring an already severely compromised bench.

[Stormy]

Sounds familiar except with different names ;)

Don't tell me we've waited 25 years just to be standing at the threshold of the 1982 team all over again! ;) (Not to mention their 61-101 record).

[pedro]

That is always the trouble of the frequent offseason refrains which greet the signing of a Moeller or a Castro, 'it's just a minor league contract' or 'somebody has to be the 25th man'... during the Narron/Krivsky regime, that style of 'play the game right' veteran seems to invariably grab far too many valuable ABs over the course of a season (or IPs out of the 'pen, if we're talking similar washed out vet relievers).

Castro will already have 60ABs by day's end, and that's with the good fortune of a completely 100% middle infield tandem this year-to-date (that's on pace for around 180+ABs this year, or more if AG, BP, or EE miss time). Likewise, Moeller will already likely have 24ABs in the mere 15+ days since he returned. That's just far too many ABs to flush on a team already facing such offensive anemia, and featuring an already severely compromised bench.

I don't have as much issue with Moeller as most BU catchers suck and at this point I have a hard time even considering Valentin a catcher. But Castro really gets my goat.

[Tom Servo]

Hopper flies out to Hawpe
Hatte goes to 3-0, takes a high strike, and flies out to deep center.
Junior walks

[Matt700wlw]

Edwin's batting 4th today.....I guess it takes Dunn, Hamilton, and Phillips out of the lineup to move him up

;)

[Matt700wlw]

15 years ago today (1992), an 8-7 win at home vs. the Cardinals.

Reggie Sanders cf
Hal Morris 1b
Barry Larkin ss
Chris Sabo 3b
Glenn Braggs lf
Paul O'Neill rf
Bill Doran 2b
Joe Oliver c
Greg Swindell p

[Tom Servo]

Edwin grounds out to Atkins, 3 outs.

[Stormy]

Griffey's 33BB/27Ks is an incredible reversal of fortune, and the conjoined strikezone control demonstrated by that stat are the single biggest factor in his turnaround IMO.

[Stormy]

I don't have as much issue with Moeller as most BU catchers suck and at this point I have a hard time even considering Valentin a catcher. But Castro really gets my goat.

True. At least moeller brings some defensive and game calling assets to the game, and from a position where one doesn't expect offensive production. However, to think that Castro is basically the team's #1A backup at 2B, SS, 3B, and is being used as a valid PH option is beyond maddening. Too bad we didn't retain a guy like Harris, to play the type of role which was previously occupied by guys like Chris Stynes, earlier model Ryan Freel etc... It's a travesty to have this guy on the roster, much less consuming any ABs at all.

[Johnny Footstool]

20 years ago today (1987), a 6-4 win at home vs. St. Louis.

Tracy Jones lf
Barry Larkin ss
Eric Davis cf
Dave Parker rf
Nick Esasky 1b
Bo Diaz c
Dave Concepcion 3b
Ron Oester 2b
Pat Pacillo p

I actually saw that game on TV. I have vivid memories of Pat Pacillo throwing at least a dozen 90-mph fastballs to 1B and eventually picking off Vince Coleman.

[Matt700wlw]

Wise!

:laugh:

[TeamBoone]

According to Thom, Adam Dunn was also sick yesterday but played anyway. Today he's even sicker.

[Matt700wlw]

Castro should bat behind the pitcher

[oneupper]

Infield IN against Castro.

[Matt700wlw]

Infield IN against Castro.

They could probably bring the infield IN to the dugout for Castro

[TeamBoone]

Wow! Perfect suicide squeeze. Good job Chad!

I don't remember the last time I've seen the Reds do that!!

Belisle on and stole second!

[Matt700wlw]

Hell has frozen over.

[Tom Servo]

Moller is definatly scrappy.

Belisle with a hit!

[oneupper]

CW was calling that...

[Matt700wlw]

Stolen base for a Belisle

:laugh:

[Stormy]

Moeller with the squeeze for the RBI, that's sure to ingratiate him with Narron for next decade or so. ;)

2-0 Reds on the power of Wise and Moeller! And now Belisle running wild on the basepaths!

[Tom Servo]

Wow, Belisle!

[Matt700wlw]

Narron having a scrappy day!

[Matt700wlw]

When was the last time a pitcher for the Reds had a stolen base?

[Eric_Davis]

I remember a stat in 1986 where under Roger Craig, the Giants would score a runner from 3rd and less than 2 outs about 75% of the time. Everybody on the team could bunt properly or hit the Sac Fly. Chili Davis was Mr. Clutch, Will Clark had his rookie year, and I've always wondered why the rest of baseball isn't as efficient as they were that year.

[Tornon]

When was the last time a pitcher for the Reds had a stolen base?

If I remember correctly, Danny Graves had 1 or 2 in 2003

[TeamBoone]

That was a pretty bad strike call on Hatte.

[Eric_Davis]

A SB by a pitcher? I think Roger Craig is in the dugout of the REDS.

[Eric_Davis]

What a wonderfully played inning by the REDS. That's the type of inning why I love baseball.

A Triple for a player's first hit of the year surrounded by a bunt single and a suicide squeeze, along with a pitcher successfully stealing a base.

[Matt700wlw]

What a wonderfully played inning by the REDS. That's the type of inning why I love baseball.

A Triple for a player's first hit of the year surrounded by a bunt single and a suicide squeeze, along with a pitcher successfully stealing a base.

The Reds can do the fundamentals....they just choose not to most of the time

;)

[Matt700wlw]

That was a meatball

[Falls City Beer]

I'd really like to see Dick Pole fired. He's gotten some decent arms to underperform thus far.

[oneupper]

I'd really like to see Dick Pole fired. He's gotten some decent arms to underperform thus far.

Is he Narron's guy? If so, their fates could be linked.

[CTA513]

That was a meatball

They went fastball after fastball to Atkins and eventually got burned.

[Matt700wlw]

Belisle's stolen base was the last by a Reds pitcher in almost 4 years....the last one was Danny Graves

[Falls City Beer]

Is he Narron's guy? If so, their fates could be linked.

I don't know if he's Narron's guy. But a benchmark for me when evaluating a pitching coach is how many career years pitchers have had under his watch. If he gets one pitcher to have his best year, then I'd think about retaining him for another year; two or more, then I think about maybe giving a guy a year or two extension.

[Eric_Davis]

They went fastball after fastball to Atkins and eventually got burned.

I wonder if Moeller's calling the game.

If so, he's been better than other catcher's on the same team during most of his career.

Sheet's best pitching was always with Moeller catching.

[Reds Fanatic]

Taveras gets his 16th bunt hit this year.

[Eric_Davis]

I hope Taveraz goes for it.

[RedsMan3203]

Looks like we have the sunday speical members here today....

Boy....

[Matt700wlw]

Balk.

How many is that now this year? Seems like this team has a balking problem

[Falls City Beer]

Seeing my number one offseason trade target Doug Davis (3.05 ERA in the brutal NL West) slice and dice the Mets today for 8 innings makes my bowels knot. Me for GM.

[Reds Fanatic]

Matsui singles and is thrown out at 2nd to end the inning. 2-1 Reds after 3.

[Eric_Davis]

Guess you don't have to steal when a pitcher balks.

[Patrick Bateman]

Seeing my number one offseason trade target Doug Davis (3.05 ERA in the brutal NL West) slice and dice the Mets today for 8 innings makes my bowels knot. Me for GM.

Hey I pimped him just as much as you did. Where's the credit here? ;)

[Matt700wlw]

Me for GM.

That'd be a thrill a minute -- I'd be fine with Davis, though....even though he pitches sloooowwwww games. :)

[Eric_Davis]

Seeing my number one offseason trade target Doug Davis (3.05 ERA in the brutal NL West) slice and dice the Mets today for 8 innings makes my bowels knot. Me for GM.

I with you. I wanted us to get Doug Davis 5 years ago when he was available off of waivers and the Blue Jays picked him up for nothing.

[Patrick Bateman]

That'd be a thrill a minute

Well the long anticipated Homer Bailey debut would have occurred for the Rockies, perhaps against us.

[Reds Fanatic]

Castro leads off with a single to center.

[Matt700wlw]

Well the long anticipated Homer Bailey debut would have occurred for the Rockies, perhaps against us.

He would have traded him for Jason Jennings and a water jug

[oneupper]

Castro leads off with a single to center.

A little Mexican connection there.

[Eric_Davis]

I with you. I wanted us to get Doug Davis 5 years ago when he was available off of waivers and the Blue Jays picked him up for nothing.

Make that 4 years ago.

[Falls City Beer]

Well the long anticipated Homer Bailey debut would have occurred for the Rockies, perhaps against us.

Davis, Jennings, Harang, Arroyo.

I'd take my chances with that rotation against the NL Central. Hell, against the NL. If the team still fails with that rotation, then I've got the most valuable commodity on the market--proven MLB pitching effectiveness. Valued by more GMs than even young, cheap, but unproven arms.

[Reds Fanatic]

Moeller grounds into a 6-4 fielder's choice. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Belisle sacrifices the runner to 2nd. 2 outs.

[Eric_Davis]

If Belisle can steal a base, maybe Moeller will be going, too. At least now, the Rockies have to think about it.

[Eric_Davis]

Hopper looking for his 1st RBI.

[Patrick Bateman]

Davis, Jennings, Harang, Arroyo.

I'd take my chances with that rotation against the NL Central. Hell, against the NL. If the team still fails with that rotation, then I've got the most valuable commodity on the market--proven MLB pitching effectiveness. Valued by more GMs than even young, cheap, but unproven arms.

Perhaps, but you could have gotten far more than 1 year of Jennings for Bailey. That would have been a serious mismanagment of assets.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hopper singles to right. They hold Moeller at 3rd. Hopper goes to 2nd on the throw home.

[Matt700wlw]

Davis, Jennings, Harang, Arroyo.

I'd take my chances with that rotation against the NL Central. Hell, against the NL. If the team still fails with that rotation, then I've got the most valuable commodity on the market--proven MLB pitching effectiveness. Valued by more GMs than even young, cheap, but unproven arms.

Davis has a career 4.29 ERA and a 65-69 record

Jennings has a career ERA of 4.70 (obviously a bit inflated because of Denver) and a 58-57 record...


Not exactly world beaters....not bad pitchers, but you're trying to make them sound like Cy Young

[TeamBoone]

Balk.

How many is that now this year? Seems like this team has a balking problem

Matt's was the second balk this year.

Baltimore and the Rockies are tied for first with 5.

[Matt700wlw]

Matt's was the second balk this year.

That's it? Really?

Nevermind me. :p:

[Falls City Beer]

Perhaps, but you could have gotten far more than 1 year of Jennings for Bailey. That would have been a serious mismanagment of assets.

Maybe it would have cost Bailey to acquire Davis? Who knows? Sure, we all want the world without having to surrender valued trading chips, but that's just not how things unfold. The point being--you HAVE to be creative with your assets.

Sitting around with your fingers crossed that Bailey is going to lead this franchise to the promised land is the absolute recipe for failure. No smart team sits around and places the weight of the franchise on one arm who hasn't thrown a MLB pitch. That is the murder of assets.

[Falls City Beer]

Davis has a career 4.29 ERA and a 65-69 record

Jennings has a career ERA of 4.70 (obviously a bit inflated because of Denver) and a 58-57 record...


Not exactly world beaters....not bad pitchers, but you're trying to make them sound like Cy Young

Carpe diem.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hatteberg flies out to left. 2-1 Reds mid 4th.

[Matt700wlw]

Maybe it would have cost Bailey to acquire Davis? Who knows? Sure, we all want the world without having to surrender valued trading chips, but that's just not how things unfold. The point being--you HAVE to be creative with your assets.

Sitting around with your fingers crossed that Bailey is going to lead this franchise to the promised land is the absolute recipe for failure. No smart team sits around and places the weight of the franchise on one arm who hasn't thrown a MLB pitch. That is the murder of assets.

Now your trading Bailey for Davis.................ok...

I'll roll the dice with Bailey - for the long haul...

If you can get Davis or Jennings, I also like Francis from last night, without having to give away the best pitching prospect this organization has seen in who knows how long, I'm willing to listen. Davis in place of Milton...absolutely...slide him in behind Harang and Arroyo (or between them)...I'm with you...

[oneupper]

Hatteberg flies out to left. 2-1 Reds mid 4th.

Hatteberg swings at a low ball four. Kinda upset about it, too.

[Falls City Beer]

Now your trading Bailey for Davis.................ok...

I'll roll the dice with Bailey

I have two targets in mind before the offseason begins: Davis and Jennings.

I don't know what it'll take to acquire either of them. Sure I look to move other pieces before Bailey, but I don't get squeamish about trading Bailey for either pitcher because he can throw 97 miles an hour. That's neither creative nor courageous. That's handwringing.

[Patrick Bateman]

Maybe it would have cost Bailey to acquire Davis? Who knows? Sure, we all want the world without having to surrender valued trading chips, but that's just not how things unfold. The point being--you HAVE to be creative with your assets.

Sitting around with your fingers crossed that Bailey is going to lead this franchise to the promised land is the absolute recipe for failure. No smart team sits around and places the weight of the franchise on one arm who hasn't thrown a MLB pitch. That is the murder of assets.

If the return for Bailey is only 1 year of a good, but not great pitcher, then you don't trade him. Trading him simply for the sake of trading would have been a horrendous move, especially where the franchise currently stands.

I would have no problem trading Bailey if the return was a true difference maker under control for multiple seasons was the return. Trading Bailey for Jennings was not the key to a playoff run this season. It would have helped, but even with Jennings this team would be mediocre. Plus the team would be down a Bailey for the next 6 seasons, and nobody to take his spot.

[Falls City Beer]

If the return for Bailey is only 1 year of a good, but not great pitcher, then you don't trade him. Trading him simply for the sake of trading would have been a horrendous move, especially where the franchise currently stands.

I would have no problem trading Bailey if the return was a true difference maker under control for multiple seasons was the return. Trading Bailey for Jennings was not the key to a playoff run this season. It would have helped, but even with Jennings this team would be mediocre. Plus the team would be down a Bailey for the next 6 seasons, and nobody to take his spot.

What if you trade Jennings or Davis or both at the deadline for two Baileys and a couple of bullpen arms?

At this point, the Reds' GM has to be playing poker, not filling holes or perceived holes in the roster. Omar Minaya gets to plug holes in the roster; Wayne has to get insanely creative in order to completely fill the pitching staff.

[Matt700wlw]

I have two targets in mind before the offseason begins: Davis and Jennings.

I don't know what it'll take to acquire either of them. Sure I look to move other pieces before Bailey, but I don't get squeamish about trading Bailey for either pitcher because he can throw 97 miles an hour. That's neither creative nor courageous. That's handwringing.

Like I said, I have no problem with either of them, but not at any cost.

[Reds Fanatic]

Atkins with a 2 out bloop double to right.

[Matt700wlw]

What if you trade Jennings or Davis or both at the deadline for two Baileys and a couple of bullpen arms?

At this point, the Reds' GM has to be playing poker, not filling holes or perceived holes in the roster.


Who is going to give away their best prosect for Jennings or Davis besides you?

....Maybe the Yankees if George is sweating in desperation, but I think even they are trying to not sell away the farm anymore.

[Patrick Bateman]

What if you trade Jennings or Davis or both at the deadline for two Baileys and a couple of bullpen arms?

At this point, the Reds' GM has to be playing poker, not filling holes or perceived holes in the roster.

No team is giving up their Bailey's for guys like Jennings. Top prospects are not thrown around like they used to. You would get some decent prospects, but nothing even remotely close to Bailey IMO.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hawpe doubles to right. Tie game 2-2.

[Reds Fanatic]

Torrealba grounds out to short. 2-2 after 4.

[Falls City Beer]

No team is giving up their Bailey's for guys like Jennings. Top prospects are not thrown around like they used to. You would get some decent prospects, but nothing even remotely close to Bailey IMO.

Regardless, we get to see Bailey this Saturday--talk about destruction of assets.

[Patrick Bateman]

Regardless, we get to see Bailey this Saturday--talk about destruction of assets.

You wont get a disagreement out of me here. This move is at a minimum, a month early.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior flies out to center. 1 out.

[Matt700wlw]

You wont get a disagreement out of me here. This move is at a minimum, a month early.

I guess we'll find out

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion singles to left.

[guttle11]

Edwin rakes...

[Falls City Beer]

No team is giving up their Bailey's for guys like Jennings. Top prospects are not thrown around like they used to. You would get some decent prospects, but nothing even remotely close to Bailey IMO.

Let's say Bailey's the real thing--who goes along with him? Arroyo? Nope. He's likely hurt and gone after next year. Harang? Probably, though it's hard to say what he'll be like in two seasons when Bailey's over his growing pains. Anybody else profile as a top flight (or even middling) starter in the minors? Nope. Some interesting bullpen arms sure. But no starters. And those "other" starters aren't coming via the FA route. That's for damn sure. So it looks like, unless they are able to parlay offensive prospects for MLB starters in the next couple of seasons, it's going to be Bailey and....? Not exactly a recipe for success. Then Bailey gets expensive and ....poof...the window closes. Start over.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez doubles to left center. 2nd and 3rd with 1 out.

[guttle11]

Gonzo doubles.

Second and third.

[Reds Fanatic]

Wise intentionally walked. Bases loaded.

[Falls City Beer]

You wont get a disagreement out of me here. This move is at a minimum, a month early.

Try a full season early. He's going to get his head kicked in routinely by the second go through the lineup.

[guttle11]

Intentional walk...Castro up with the bases jacked.

[jesusfan]

Bases jacked for Castro.... c'mon!

[oneupper]

Narron has a chance pull a wedge and hit with Valentin here...

(he won't of course).

[Reds Fanatic]

Castro singles to left! 4-2 Reds

[jesusfan]

Castro baby!! 2 run single to left... 4-2 Reds...

[guttle11]

Line drive to left...Holliday drops a sliding catch, 2 runs score.

4-2.

[CrackerJack]

Probably should've been caught - Castro benefits - and comes up lame

[Reds Fanatic]

Pitching change.

[jesusfan]

Probably should've been caught - Castro benefits - and comes up lame

tough play... Castro hit it hard and would've had a Sac. Fly anyways...

[oneupper]

Probably should've been caught - Castro benefits - and comes up lame

Pan para hoy...hambre para mañana.

(Bread for today...hunger for tomorrow)

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez may have hurt his leg scoring on that play.

[oneupper]

Gonzalez may have hurt his leg scoring on that play.

Oh...boy.

[Reds Fanatic]

Jorge Julio in to pitch.

[Falls City Beer]

Gonzalez may have hurt his leg scoring on that play.

What's sad is that the Reds have been this awful while being pretty lucky in the health department.

[Reds Fanatic]

That last play they are scoring as a sac. fly for Castro and an error on Holliday.

[jesusfan]

why in the world do you swing at that crap? 3-1

[Patrick Bateman]

Let's say Bailey's the real thing--who goes along with him? Arroyo? Nope. He's likely hurt and gone after next year. Harang? Probably, though it's hard to say what he'll be like in two seasons when Bailey's over his growing pains. Anybody else profile as a top flight (or even middling) starter in the minors? Nope. Some interesting bullpen arms sure. But no starters. And those "other" starters aren't coming via the FA route. That's for damn sure. So it looks like, unless they are able to parlay offensive prospects for MLB starters in the next couple of seasons, it's going to be Bailey and....? Not exactly a recipe for success. Then Bailey gets expensive and ....poof...the window closes. Start over.

A lot can happen in 2 years. I mean in a matter of 2 weeks you have basically written off Arroyo for the rest of his Reds career.

If Bailey develops, then with Harang (and Arroyo), it should be comically easy to build a rotation.

[oneupper]

Gameday is scoring Castro's "hit" as SF + Error.

[37red]

I'm glad to see Castro coming through today!

[letsgojunior]

What's sad is that the Reds have been this awful while being pretty lucky in the health department.

Good point - at least the Reds' ineptitude in 2001 could be justified somewhat by the uncanny string of injuries that year. This team has been relatively healthy.

[Reds Fanatic]

Moeller flies out to shallow center. Runners stay at 2nd and 3rd.

[Falls City Beer]

A lot can happen in 2 years. I mean in a matter of 2 weeks you have basically written off Arroyo for the rest of his Reds career.

If Bailey develops, then with Harang (and Arroyo), it should be comically easy to build a rotation.

Regardless, Arroyo's gone after next season. So best case it's Harang and Bailey. And as we've seen there's nothing comical about finding even competent pitching for the 3-4-5 spots. Not to mention a bullpen.

[jesusfan]

had a chance to add on.. However, Reds lead 4-2 after 4.5...

[Reds Fanatic]

Belisle grounds out to the pitcher. 4-2 Reds mid 5th.

[jesusfan]

Regardless, Arroyo's gone after next season. So best case it's Harang and Bailey. And as we've seen there's nothing comical about finding even competent pitching for the 3-4-5 spots. Not to mention a bullpen.

What? Gone after next season? He signed through 2010 man....

[Patrick Bateman]

Try a full season early. He's going to get his head kicked in routinely by the second go through the lineup.

I did say 'minimum'. If he dominated the next 6 starts to the fullest of capabilities, then it may be time to consider a move. At his current rate, I'd lean closer to your estimation.

[Hoosier Red]

Regardless, Arroyo's gone after next season. So best case it's Harang and Bailey. And as we've seen there's nothing comical about finding even competent pitching for the 3-4-5 spots. Not to mention a bullpen.

He signed a two year extension to the deal that had him with the Reds through this year. He's here until 2010.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez does leave the game injured. Phillips goes to 2nd and Castro moves to short.

[Falls City Beer]

What? Gone after next season? He signed through 2010 man....

I thought 2010 was only an option. And I seriously doubt that he's going to be effective through the life of his contract. Bottom line: Bailey's salad days will NOT converge with an effective Arroyo.

[Patrick Bateman]

Regardless, Arroyo's gone after next season. So best case it's Harang and Bailey. And as we've seen there's nothing comical about finding even competent pitching for the 3-4-5 spots. Not to mention a bullpen.

If Arroyo is indeed healthy and starts pitching like he was, then it would probably take a Bailey and a Hughes for Krivsky and Castellini to get rid of him.

[Reds Fanatic]

Caroll fouls out to 3rd. 1 out.

[jesusfan]

I though 2010 was only an option. And I seriously doubt that he's going to be effective through the life of his contract. Bottom line: Bailey's salad days will NOT converge with an effective Arroyo.

I disagree... Arroyo has been ineffective as of late, but he is the type of pitcher that doesnt need velocity to be effective, he can throw 87-90 and still be a good #3 pitcher, which he will be....

[Stormy]

Moeller, Wise and Castro driving in all of the runs so far today. :) Wonderful irony, as is often the case with Sunday Special lineups.

FCB: Bailey has a chance to be our version of Jake Peavy, and you don't trade the low expense, sky high ceiling that portends, for a couple of years of paying a Jennings or Davis to fluctuate between good and league average, in my opinion.

[The_jbh]

I thought 2010 was only an option. And I seriously doubt that he's going to be effective through the life of his contract. Bottom line: Bailey's salad days will NOT converge with an effective Arroyo.

I think Arroyo has been abused and with a little break Arroyo will return to form... and I disagree with your assessment that he wont be here after another year... at the very worst the reds will put him in the pen...

[TeamBoone]

Regardless, Arroyo's gone after next season. So best case it's Harang and Bailey. And as we've seen there's nothing comical about finding even competent pitching for the 3-4-5 spots. Not to mention a bullpen.

You don't know that. Arroyo may just be going through a rough period; maybe a dead arm, a bump in the road.

We've only got two months of baseball under our belts; let's see how it plays out before you write him off. I have faith that he'll come back.

[Reds Fanatic]

Finley pinch hitting for Julio.

Finley flies out to center. 2 outs.

[Falls City Beer]

I disagree... Arroyo has been ineffective as of late, but he is the type of pitcher that doesnt need velocity to be effective, he can throw 87-90 and still be a good #3 pitcher, which he will be....

I see him as a guy to squeeze two or three good years out of before his timer goes off....

He's not the future.

[Reds Fanatic]

Taveras doubles to right center.

[Falls City Beer]

Moeller, Wise and Castro driving in all of the runs so far today. :) Wonderful irony, as is often the case with Sunday Special lineups.

FCB: Bailey has a chance to be our version of Jake Peavy, and you don't trade the low expense, sky high ceiling that portends, for a couple of years of paying a Jennings or Davis to fluctuate between good and league average, in my opinion.

The only thing Jake Peavy and Homer Bailey share right now is their fastball. That's where the comparisons end.

[37red]

Yes Stormy, I find myself rooting for the underdogs even on our own team when the crowd is down on them.

[jesusfan]

I see him as a guy to squeeze two or three good years out of before his timer goes off....

He's not the future.

He is not the future, but he is part of the future.... 1. Harang 2. Bailey 3. Arroyo 4. Cueto 5. Belisle/?

That is what it will be, Arroyo is a very very good #3 pitcher, ask anyone in baseball and they will tell you the same... I will take that rotation any day of the week and twice today, because it is SUnday...

[Reds Fanatic]

Matsui flies out to left. Good running catch by Hopper. 4-2 Reds after 5.

[Patrick Bateman]

The only thing Jake Peavy and Homer Bailey share right now is their fastball. That's where the comparisons end.

Bailey was an even better prospect than Peavy was considered (much because Peavy shared the exact same problems that Bailey has encountered). They are very much cut from the same cloth. If Bailey develops, he can be a Peavy calibre pitcher.

[Falls City Beer]

He is not the future, but he is part of the future.... 1. Harang 2. Bailey 3. Arroyo 4. Cueto 5. Belisle/?

That is what it will be, Arroyo is a very very good #3 pitcher, ask anyone in baseball and they will tell you the same... I will take that rotation any day of the week and twice today, because it is SUnday...

Things almost never turn that cleanly. Attrition, failed trades, injuries. I'll wager anything that that rotation (above) never comes to be.

[Stormy]

Regardless, Arroyo's gone after next season. So best case it's Harang and Bailey. And as we've seen there's nothing comical about finding even competent pitching for the 3-4-5 spots. Not to mention a bullpen.

Why is he gone?? The fact that he's here long-term at such an inexpensive rate is what makes it such a bargain if he rebounds as he's a.) a great value for the buck, and b.) if he must be traded, any suitor could afford his pricetag.

[jesusfan]

I don't think I've ever seen a guy hate on a great 21 year old pitching prospect who posesses a 97 mph fastball and has the potential to be a great ace, which doesnt come around often....

[The_jbh]

I'm not convinced that Belisle won't be that steady #3 starter

[jesusfan]

Things almost never turn that cleanly. Attrition, failed trades, injuries. I'll wager anything that that rotation (above) never comes to be.

really? okay... No way we trade Bailey, Harang, or Arroyo... they are locks for the next 3-4 years... Cueto and Belisle are question marks but I am sure we will be able to develop a 4th and 5th pitcher through either our farm system or free agency...

[Falls City Beer]

Why is he gone?? The fact that he's here long-term at such an inexpensive rate is what makes it such a bargain if he rebounds as he's a.) a great value for the buck, and b.) if he must be traded, any suitor could afford his pricetag.

I agree with the second part. But he's journeyman who hit his stride at the right time for the Reds. A nice job, and a fun pitcher to watch, but he and Bailey won't share a rotation together most likely.

[jesusfan]

I'm not convinced that Belisle won't be that steady #3 starter

he doesnt have to be next year... just a good #4... Great hustle by Hopper!

[Aronchis]

I'm not convinced that Belisle won't be that steady #3 starter

I am convinced he isn't. Not a good performance today. Aided by a bad showing by the Rockies. Unless he improves greatly next year, he is nothing better than 2004 Harang.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ramon Ramirez in to pitch.

Hopper lines a double to left center. Good hustle by Hopper.

[CrackerJack]

Wow that was a nice hit and scramble by Hopper - nice swing there too.

[The_jbh]

Things almost never turn that cleanly. Attrition, failed trades, injuries. I'll wager anything that that rotation (above) never comes to be.

Probably true... I don't think Harang Arroyo or Bailey go anywhere but I think we'll sign a starter in the next couple off seasons and I think Cuento will crack the majors as a reliever and will dominate leading the reds to keep as a set up guy and eventually a reliever...

I would be willing to bet you 2009 has Arroyo Harang and Bailey in the rotation tho

[jesusfan]

I agree with the second part. But he's journeyman who hit his stride at the right time for the Reds. A nice job, and a fun pitcher to watch, but he and Bailey won't share a rotation together most likely.

what? so you don't think Arroyo and Bailey will share the rotation together when Arroyo is signed through 2010 and Bailey will be up here for good starting in 08..... I dont see your logic, but I'll let you explain...

[Falls City Beer]

I don't think I've ever seen a guy hate on a great 21 year old pitching prospect who posesses a 97 mph fastball and has the potential to be a great ace, which doesnt come around often....

I'm not "hating," I'm saying don't place the weight of your franchise on one arm.

Diversify--mix it up; make many bold moves that net you quantity and quality. Don't sit on your hands and pray that one hardthrowing youngster's going to vault you to contention.

Josh Beckett needed a Dontrelle Willis, no?

[Reds Fanatic]

Hatteberg strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[jesusfan]

I'm not "hating," I'm saying don't place the weight of your franchise on one arm.

Diversify--mix it up; make many bold moves that net you quantity and quality. Don't sit on your hands and pray that one hardthrowing youngster's going to vault you to contention.

Josh Beckett needed a Dontrelle Willis, no?

I'm just saying that Bailey the #1 or #2 prospect in all of BASEBALL.... Obviously, scouts and coaches know more than what everyone thinks and if you traded a Bailey for a Jennings Cincinnati fans would go crazy, including me...

[Falls City Beer]

what? so you don't think Arroyo and Bailey will share the rotation together when Arroyo is signed through 2010 and Bailey will be up here for good starting in 08..... I dont see your logic, but I'll let you explain...

I don't think Arroyo will be worth a damn by 2009--I would trade him midway through 2008 if the Reds are out of it--heck, I'd consider trading him this season for the right price. But then, he's pitching like dogcrap, so he has no trade value.

[oneupper]

Hatteberg strikes out swinging. 1 out.

Hatteberg flustered at the umps strike zone (which was really wide to the outside).

[Reds Fanatic]

Intentional walk to Junior. 1st and 2nd with 1 out.

[jesusfan]

I don't think Arroyo will be worth a damn by 2009--I would trade him midway through 2008 if the Reds are out of it--heck, I'd consider trading him this season for the right price. But then, he's pitching like dogcrap, so he has no trade value.

okay.... he has 4 straight bad starts, so now he sucks, but a month ago he had a 2.90 era and made the all star team last year so now lets trade him, he sucks.... my bad, end of story... Arroyo sucks...

[Stormy]

The only thing Jake Peavy and Homer Bailey share right now is their fastball. That's where the comparisons end.

Not really true, at all. They do share the fastball, which can't be underestimated, as well as the similar fluidity and economy of their deliveries for their respective frames. However, if you'll look back to Peavy's debut seasons, he similarly lacked the command and confidence is both of his main secondary pitches (much akin to what we've heard of Bailey), but in both cases the word was that those offspeed pitches were potential "plus" pitches if mastered.

There's a reason that Peavy (at Bailey's age) was posting higher walk rates, lower K/BB, higher BAA and ERA in his first 2 seasons, than he has since subsequently taking control of his entire arsenal. Bailey has the stuff, to potentially do likewise over time (that couldn't be said of any Reds starting prospect in 15+ years).

Will Bailey be another Peavy? Who knows? But just as the Pads are currently glad they didn't move Peavy for some 29-32 year old journeyman during a career year, the Reds will likely be pleased that they don't move Bailey for a guy like Jennings or Davis.

[jesusfan]

Eddie is hot!

[Stormy]

Way to go EdE, claim that position for the next 5 years! Don't give them the option of ever sending you down again. 5-2 Reds.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion doubles to left. 5-2 Reds! 2nd and 3rd.

[guttle11]

Edwin is amazing right now!

Double down the line, 5-2 Reds.

3-4 on the day.

[The_jbh]

Arroyo will rebound... and i think hes a guys who will sustain sometime of sucess late in his career. he has good breaking stuff and doesn't have to have the heat to succeed. he has at least a future in our pen...

EE continuing to produce with runners on like he did last year! GO ee

[jesusfan]

Not really true, at all. They do share the fastball, which can't be underestimated, as well as the similar fluidity and economy of their deliveries for their respective frames. However, if you'll look back to Peavy's debut seasons, he similarly lacked the command and confidence is both of his main secondary pitches (much akin to what we've heard of Bailey, but in both cases the word was that those offspeed pitches were potential "plus" pitches if mastered.

There's a reason that Peavy (at Bailey's age) was posting higher walk rates, lower K/BB, higher BAA and ERA in his first 2 seasons, than he has since subsequently taking control of his entire arsenal. Bailey has the stuff, to potentially do likewise over time (that couldn't be said of any Reds starting prospect in 15+ years).

Will Bailey be another Peavy? Who knows? But just as the Pads are currently glad they didn't move Peavy for some 29-32 year old journeyman during a career year, the Reds will likely be pleased that they don't move Bailey for a guy like Jennings or Davis.

I'm glad someone else thinks like me.... I was starting to get scared...

[Falls City Beer]

Not really true, at all. They do share the fastball, which can't be underestimated, as well as the similar fluidity and economy of their deliveries for their respective frames. However, if you'll look back to Peavy's debut seasons, he similarly lacked the command and confidence is both of his main secondary pitches (much akin to what we've heard of Bailey, but in both cases the word was that those offspeed pitches were potential "plus" pitches if mastered.

There's a reason that Peavy (at Bailey's age) was posting higher walk rates, lower K/BB, higher BAA and ERA in his first 2 seasons, than he has since subsequently taking control of his entire arsenal. Bailey has the stuff, to potentially do likewise over time (that couldn't be said of any Reds starting prospect in 15+ years).

Will Bailey be another Peavy? Who knows? But just as the Pads are currently glad they didn't move Peavy for some 29-32 year old journeyman during a career year, the Reds will likely be pleased that they don't move Bailey for a guy like Jennings or Davis.

Rich Harden and Kerry Wood had/have smooth deliveries.

[jesusfan]

3 Run Homer by BP!!!! 8-2!

[guttle11]

That was a shot!

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips 3 run homer to right center!!! 8-2 Reds!

[The_jbh]

Phillips jacks a three runner! yeeehaw

[CrackerJack]

BP - nice - heard that one go out

[Matt700wlw]

:phillips:

:jump:

[jesusfan]

I'll take another series win!

[The_jbh]

I love it when teams walk players such as KG jr and the following two hitters drive in runs...

[Falls City Beer]

I'll take another series win!

Another? :devil:

[The_jbh]

I'll take another series win!

Find a wood table... wall whatever is close by and please knock on it with our bullpen in Coors field

[Reds Fanatic]

Wise flies out to center. 8-2 Reds mid 6th.

[jesusfan]

BP now has 32 RBI on the year... tied with Griffey..

[Patrick Bateman]

Rich Harden and Kerry Wood had/have smooth deliveries.

And Kerry Wood was a very effective pitcher for 5 years.

[jesusfan]

Another? :devil:

uh yeah.... we did just win 2 of 3 from Houston...

[edabbs44]

I don't think Arroyo will be worth a damn by 2009--I would trade him midway through 2008 if the Reds are out of it--heck, I'd consider trading him this season for the right price. But then, he's pitching like dogcrap, so he has no trade value.

Krivsky dropped the ball by giving him the extension early. There was no reason to do that. And by the way he has been pitching lately, it's looking worse and worse every day.

[jesusfan]

Because other pitchers have been injured doesnt mean you get scared and trade your great prospect for Jason Jennings... That is like saying you're not going to fly anymore because a plane went down... You can't think like that or something will happen...

[jesusfan]

I think its crazy Kerry Wood is 30 years old...

[Reds Fanatic]

Holliday singles to right.

[Reds Fanatic]

Helton flies out to left. 1 out.

[Falls City Beer]

And Kerry Wood was a very effective pitcher for 5 years.

Only 2 seasons of 200+ IP and 2 seasons of 150 + IP.

Missed the entirety of the 99 season.

I don't know--spotty resume; I don't think anyone can fully grasp how important it is to a team to contribute innings, not just potential.

[Eric_Davis]

You don't know that. Arroyo may just be going through a rough period; maybe a dead arm, a bump in the road.

We've only got two months of baseball under our belts; let's see how it plays out before you write him off. I have faith that he'll come back.


And half of the pitchers who were projected to be the 10 best in the NL this year have struggled for most of the year. Arroyo only for his last few starts.

[Reds Fanatic]

Atkins flies out to center. 2 outs.

[Falls City Beer]

Because other pitchers have been injured doesnt mean you get scared and trade your great prospect for Jason Jennings... That is like saying you're not going to fly anymore because a plane went down... You can't think like that or something will happen...

My concern for Bailey's health isn't actually my paramount concern. Effectiveness is.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hawpe walks. 1st and 2nd.

[Eric_Davis]

:phillips:

:jump:

Phillips, Dunn, Junior and Gonzalez are all in the top-20 in the NL in Total Bases this year.

[Reds Fanatic]

Torrealba singles to center. 8-3 Reds. 1st and 3rd.

[The_jbh]

ok time to yank beslile... good outing but his stuff is losing break... hes getting tired and im sure the atmosphere isnt helping

[The_jbh]

how is it there is no one in the pen...

[Eric_Davis]

Phillips, Dunn, Junior and Gonzalez are all in the top-20 in the NL in Total Bases this year.

Going into today,

Phillips 16th,
Dunn 17th,
Gonzalez 18th,
Junior 29th (guess not top-20, but that's still good)

[Reds Fanatic]

Carroll singles to center. 8-4 Reds.

[jesusfan]

My concern for Bailey's health isn't actually my paramount concern. Effectiveness is.

I understand.. his horrible pitching in AAA is a concern... lol :confused:

[Matt700wlw]

Coutlanges warming up....I guess he's the new Todd Coffey....use him until his arm falls off

[Reds Fanatic]

Coutlangus warming up.

[The_jbh]

jesusfan did you find that wood? haha

[jesusfan]

Couter in the pen...

[The_jbh]

Can narron stop absolutely abusing effective relievers...

[Reds Fanatic]

Spilborghs pinch hits and flies out to center. 8-4 Reds after 6.

[CTA513]

Reds pitchers get a big lead and still find ways to give runs back.

[jesusfan]

jesusfan did you find that wood? haha

yeah... my cpu desk will work right? lol

[Falls City Beer]

Reds pitchers get a big lead and still find ways to give runs back.

That's right. A main reason for my call to fire Pole.

[jesusfan]

off topic: How about them Cavs!

[Aronchis]

Reds pitchers get a big lead and still find ways to give runs back.

No, it is called Matt Belisle isn't any good. He had already been beat around.

[The_jbh]

how bout Ohio... two national championship games and a nba championship game... not a bad yr and who knows what the indians could do

[Matt700wlw]

how bout Ohio... two national championship games and a nba championship game... not a bad yr and who knows what the indians could do

Go Bengals! :D

[jesusfan]

how bout Ohio... two national championship games and a nba championship game... not a bad yr and who knows what the indians could do

or the reds... lol ;)

[The_jbh]

WHO DEY I'm excited for this season

[Matt700wlw]

No, it is called Matt Belisle isn't any good. He had already been beat around.

Yeah, he's been awful....horrible.....cut him.

[Reds Fanatic]

Tom Martin in to pitch.

Moeller singles to left center.

[Matt700wlw]

Can I ask why Belisle is batting?


He struggled last inning, why send him back out....he did his job.

[jesusfan]

off to play ball.... cya and go reds!

[Falls City Beer]

Yeah, he's been awful....horrible.....cut him.

He's been pretty off and on all season. I wouldn't cut him because he's an ideal #5 pitcher. But I'm not going to overpraise him because he's failed pretty often too.

[Reds Fanatic]

Belisle sacrifices the runner to 2nd. 1 out.

[oneupper]

Why is Belilse hitting?

Narron is crazy.

[Matt700wlw]

He's been pretty off and on all season. I wouldn't cut him because he's an ideal #5 pitcher. But I'm not going to overpraise him because he's failed pretty often too.

He's been streaky, I'll take him as a back end rotation guy

[Reds Fanatic]

Hopper singles to center. 1st and 3rd.

[Falls City Beer]

Why is Belilse hitting?

Narron is crazy.

Giving Martin a free out is even crazier.

[Reds Fanatic]

Belisle is already at 94 pitches. Narron is not happy until his starters throw 115+ pitches.

[The_jbh]

How bout Norris Hopper... how do u take him out of the line up the way hes been hitting on this trip even with Hammy coming back up?

[oneupper]

Giving Martin a free out is even crazier.

Just wait. If Belisle puts on the first hitter in the B7, Narron will yank him.