Is everyone OK with Ross everyday?

[captain11]

Now that Larue is gone and Ross is playing everyday - is this OK? I think Ross is a solid defender and does hit for power, but he is slowly becoming our right-handed Adam Dunn on the offensive side of things.

[eastkyred]

Now that Larue is gone and Ross is playing everyday - is this OK? I think Ross is a solid defender and does hit for power, but he is slowly becoming our right-handed Adam Dunn on the offensive side of things.

I agree with your assessment. I'm not really ok with him long-term, but because of his defense and ability to handle pitchers, he's the best option we've got for now. I think Javy is a much better hitter, but the pitchers ERA is alot worse when he catches. I'd rather have Ross out there everyday on this team, but this is a position that definately needs an upgrade for the future. I was actually glad to see the Reds draft a C in the first round, although he's probably a good 5 years away from helping the big club.

[CySeymour]

Now that Larue is gone and Ross is playing everyday - is this OK? I think Ross is a solid defender and does hit for power, but he is slowly becoming our right-handed Adam Dunn on the offensive side of things.


Well, he is not in the same zip code as Adam Dunn offensively. The only thing they have in common is strikeouts. On the other hand, according to the Hard Ball Times win shares page, Ross is the Reds most valuable defender. He leads the team in defensive win shares.

[44Magnum]

No

[Mr Red]

No, I'm not ok with it. This team is struggling to score at times and we have a catcher batting .1##. I do hope he comes out of it soon but my fear is that we may have seen the best we are ever going to get from Ross.

[durl]

I'm fine with Ross. His primary job is to catch and he does it very well.

His hitting has improved over what it was earlier this season. I'd like to see it get back to what it was last season and it may yet.

[pahster]

Now that Larue is gone and Ross is playing everyday - is this OK? I think Ross is a solid defender and does hit for power, but he is slowly becoming our right-handed Adam Dunn on the offensive side of things.

Yeah. The Reds don't have a better option. If Ross were actually a Dunn clone, he'd be one of the best (if not the best) offensive catchers in baseball.

[AdamDunn]

I love Ross. Clearly a superb defensive catcher. Why the hate? Remember, most catchers in the majors can't hit either. Ross does a fine job behind the plate. He's a better hitter than what he's shown this year. He'll come around and hit around a .240 or .230 by the end of the season with 20 homers. That's fine with me.

[eastkyred]

I love Ross. Clearly a superb defensive catcher. Why the hate? Remember, most catchers in the majors can't hit either. Ross does a fine job behind the plate. He's a better hitter than what he's shown this year. He'll come around and hit around a .240 or .230 by the end of the season with 20 homers. That's fine with me.

If he can hit .240 with 20 homers, then that's ok with me also. A catcher is more valuable defensively and especially handling pitchers and Ross is good in these areas. But, he's on pace for 15 hr's and 43 rbi's with a BA under .200. If what he's showing so far this year is the real Ross, and not last year, then the Reds need to upgrade. I suspect the real Ross is somewhere in the middle.

[NorrisHopper30]

For you people that aren't fine with it because of his offensive #s...would you really want Valentin in there with his terrid defense and his bat not available off the bench?

I'd much rather have Ross every day, he works better with the catchers and has much more pop in his bat than Moeller.

[UK Reds Fan]

I love Ross. Clearly a superb defensive catcher. Why the hate? Remember, most catchers in the majors can't hit either. Ross does a fine job behind the plate. He's a better hitter than what he's shown this year. He'll come around and hit around a .240 or .230 by the end of the season with 20 homers. That's fine with me.


I have never understood this logic for Catchers, SS and CF...that as long as they play reasonable defense, doesn't matter what production they give you at the plate....This is supposed to be the best in the world, I can't imagine batting a whopping 186 is that hard for any catcher.

Ross is dead last in OPS in NL....plays in a hitter's park to boot and strikes out at an alarming rate and to boot platoons a good bit with Javy, so the guy sees a lot of LH pitching only in his appearances. We are over at the 1/3 mark in season, so David is going to have to get red hot for him, to end up with a OPS over 700. We could get the same production from the likes of minor league career men like Corky Miller, etc..I can't imagine Dane Sardhina would be doing any worse. Moeller was signed for league minimum and he wouldn't produce much worse with the bat and he is supposed to be equally a defensive whiz. The whole defensive reputation that guys get tagged with (ala Castro) tends to be so overrated. Outside of the Mets, who else uses the running game as a part of their offensive gameplan? The days of Vince Coleman, Willie McGee, Rickey Henderson, etc...are over. Teams use the long ball more to score, which means catching defense isn't that important anymore.

Ross's lack of production is a big reason why this team struggles to score w/o the long ball. You just have to pitch around the middle of the pack and get to Ross, Castro, etc.. and you're home free. Bottomline, Ross has been a waste of 1.6 M...we could have gotten his production for 500k and not had to ink for the extra year that we get to see this same crap next year with Ross.

[reds44]

Now that Larue is gone and Ross is playing everyday - is this OK? I think Ross is a solid defender and does hit for power, but he is slowly becoming our right-handed Adam Dunn on the offensive side of things.
How can you compare Ross to Dunn?

Ross:
145 ABs
.186 BA
6 homers
2 2Bs
17 RBIs
12 BB
52 K

.186/.245/.324

Dunn:
220 ABs
.250
15 HRs
38 RBIs
11 2Bs
2 3Bs
31 BB
82 K

.250/.346/.523

What about them is similar? They both K alot? Dunn is three times the offensive player Ross is.


Ross is useless on offense but plays great D. He's the best in house option right now, but that's not saying much.

[pahster]

A couple other quick points on Ross. So far, he's seeing 4.28 P/PA, which would rank him 7th in the majors if he had enough PA to qualify and his BABIP is only .241. Because his groundball rate is only about 40%, it's likely that he'll turn it around this season. He's not gonna OPS .900+, but he'll probably be productive for a catcher.

[fadetoblack2880]

Ross is attrocious.

[mound_patrol]

am I okay with Ross at catcher?....NO...but is he the worst of our problems?...Not even close. Is there a better option than Ross in the organization...Not yet. So I'm okay with Ross as our primary catcher for now. Hopefully the catchers spot can be looked at over the winter, or maybe Ross can show something close to last year with the remaining months.

[big boy]

Valentin would be better if he played more. Ross was a bad move by WK. I said it then. His mechanics at the plate are so bad that I can spot them on FSN from my couch. Watch him pull off the ball on the outside part of the plate. He was fine last year hitting mistakes over the fence. However, this year they know not to throw those to him.

[AmarilloRed]

Ross will be the catcher for now, because he is the best option. Valentin is good coming off the bench, but he is yet to prove he is a everyday player.

[Mr Red]

Ross has K'd at a 36% rate. Adam has K'd at a 37% rate. If Ross would have the same amount of AB's as Dunn and maintained that pace they would be one/two for the NL lead in K's. To be honest I'm not that happy with either one of them and both are a small part of what is wrong with this team.

[bucksfan2]

I actually like Ross as the reds catcher. Ross had a horrendous start but I would like to see his numbers once he started to hit the ball a little better. He is never going to be a good offensive player but he will punish a bad pitch when given the opportunity. I also think he is a pretty good 8 hole hitter because you need that type of free swinger there. He has shown that he is a good game caller and handles the pitcher well and is good at throwing out runners. Valentine is not a good option behind the plate. I think he has regressed both offensively and defensively. A batter needs to do more than swing for the fences on every swing.

[bounty37h]

Yes, I am fine with Ross catching, he is a good defensive catcher, not great, but good, in a lost art position. I like him as our catcher better then Larue, so glad he is gone, and better then Val as our starter. Would love to see the bat light up more. If a better option comes around, i wont be dissapointed for the Reds, but am satisfied with him, from a defensive standpoint.

[JLB5]

It's not like there has been anyone available in free agency the past couple of years either. Paul Bako? Rod Barajas? Those are career .230-.240 hitters. Chad Moeller was probably the best other option available sadly enough.

[DannyB]

WOW I think he is awful!

[Lockdwn11]

Valentin would be better if he played more. Ross was a bad move by WK. I said it then. His mechanics at the plate are so bad that I can spot them on FSN from my couch. Watch him pull off the ball on the outside part of the plate. He was fine last year hitting mistakes over the fence. However, this year they know not to throw those to him.

WOW they KNOW to not throw him MISTAKE pitches?(LOL) How do you do that but anyways I'm ok with him for now because he is the best we got. Is he as good as he was last year No but I don't think he is as bad as he has been this year either I think by the end of the season he will be somewhere in the middle and I think that is the player he is. .245 20HR 65RBI

[boognish]

I look for his rate stats to be pretty close to his second half last season:

2nd half 2006: .203/.325/.484
so far in 2007: .186/.245/.324

You can take the low average if it comes with power and walks, as it did when he struggled last season. From a defensive position, you can accept the huge home/road splits. Currently, his OPS is south of .600, and he has a career mark of .745 going into play tonight. As pahster adeptly pointed out, Ross has a low BABIP, so hopefully the power will come back. Only TWO doubles all year! He also has seemingly forgotten how to take a walk.

[harangatang]

I don't mind one bit, he does a good job running the Reds pitching staff. Offensively his 2007 numbers don't match up to the 2006 numbers but 2006 was more of a mirage than anything. If I were the GM I would have traded Ross during the offseason due to an unforeseen explosion offensively. Since the Reds didn't do that I would keep him until either 1) his offensive numbers skyrocket or 2) someone else better and cheaper comes along. Neither is likely in my opinion so I would keep him and run him out there everyday even if he doesn't hit like Johnny Bench or Carlton Fisk.

[fielder's choice]

Ross is flat out awful, he has a good arm but that's it. Moehler should be given a chance, at least he would give you decent AB's

[pahster]

Ross is flat out awful, he has a good arm but that's it. Moehler should be given a chance, at least he would give you decent AB's

Don't be so sure of that.

Career
AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS+
Ross - .222/.300/.443/90
Moeller - .227/.287/.351/63

These data coupled with the Ross' low BABIP and high P/PA make Ross the logical choice. Moeller has never and will likely never be good enough to justify extended playing time. As bad as Ross has been this year, Moeller has been worse (.562 OPS to .555). Ross hasn't really been walking yet, but one can infer that he probably will start to again because of the large quantity of pitches he's seen so far.

[big boy]

WOW they KNOW to not throw him MISTAKE pitches?(LOL)

Sorry I wasn't clear...he no longer sees waist-high fastballs on the inner-half.

[nw_ohio_fan]

Ross is our best option. Doesn't mean he's the best thing for us, but for now I am okay. I just think at this point in the game to trade for a better catcher would really hurt us.

[fielder's choice]

Don't be so sure of that.

Career
AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS+
Ross - .222/.300/.443/90
Moeller - .227/.287/.351/63

These data coupled with the Ross' low BABIP and high P/PA make Ross the logical choice. Moeller has never and will likely never be good enough to justify extended playing time. As bad as Ross has been this year, Moeller has been worse (.562 OPS to .555). Ross hasn't really been walking yet, but one can infer that he probably will start to again because of the large quantity of pitches he's seen so far.

Ross had one good year to drive his career stats up; he has been clueless at the plate all year.

[NorrisHopper30]

Ross is flat out awful, he has a good arm but that's it. Moehler should be given a chance, at least he would give you decent AB's

Moeller can't give a decent AB and he has no pop, i'd much rather take my chances with a good defensive catcher that has a chance to knock the ball out of the yard.

[UK Reds Fan]

Don't be so sure of that.

Career
AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS+
Ross - .222/.300/.443/90
Moeller - .227/.287/.351/63

These data coupled with the Ross' low BABIP and high P/PA make Ross the logical choice. Moeller has never and will likely never be good enough to justify extended playing time. As bad as Ross has been this year, Moeller has been worse (.562 OPS to .555). Ross hasn't really been walking yet, but one can infer that he probably will start to again because of the large quantity of pitches he's seen so far.


I would argue save for 1/2 of last year...Ross is the same as Moeller, with a bit more power. Ross K's a ton, walks very little and all this while hitting in GABP and facing primarily more LH pitching while platooning with Valentin. I don't get much into the subjective arguments over defensive abilities/handling of pitching staff, etc... Pitches can be called from dugout, teams don't run anymore, etc...

In the end, Ross costs 1M more than Moeller and has a guaranteed contract for 1 more year. We can match Ross's production off the scrape heap in Moeller...heck Sardhina could have done what Ross has done thus far for league minimum. Ross has been a huge dissapointment this year.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

Ross has put up decent hitting numbers before, he's just "in a slump" everyone says.
So that means the potential is there, but the production is not.
So that means he is either taking steps to correct his lack of production (more BP, more pitcher studying, bat technique, etc) or he is doing nothing and is just "hoping he comes out of it."

Either way... if he is still hitting below his weight by the break, then something needs to be done. Either go out and get someone better, or start batting Ross in the 9 hole.

Seriously... sometimes he looks as lost as I would at the plate. Not "I'm in a slump" lost. More like "holy crap, thats a major league change-up/slider/fastball and I don't even know where to begin" kind of lost.

[AmarilloRed]

Ross handles a pitching staff well. I would keep him for that alone. The cardinals kept Yadier Molina as their catcher, even thought he hit under.200. A catcher is there to handle a pitching staff. It would be nice if he could hit .250, but I would keep him until the starting pitching starts going south. In the meantime, we have bigger problems than Ross.

[UK Reds Fan]

Ross handles a pitching staff well. I would keep him for that alone. The cardinals kept Yadier Molina as their catcher, even thought he hit under.200. A catcher is there to handle a pitching staff. It would be nice if he could hit .250, but I would keep him until the starting pitching starts going south. In the meantime, we have bigger problems than Ross.

Please help me understand what is meant by "Handles a pitching staff well" We are in bottom of most to all pitching stats this year and were last year as well. Not that I believe it is Ross's fault, but Ross handles Arroyo well (who pitched great last year) and know Arroyo is struggling for whatever the reason this year (Arm tired, league catching up to him)...

What does any of that have to do with Ross? Is the guy catching Milton not handling him well or does Miltie just stink? Larue caught many of these same guys (Harang, Milton, Weathers, ) and they all perform about the same regardless of catcher.

John Smoltz has been caught by tons of catchers in Atlanta...hasn't made him worse or better with Lopez, Estrada, McCann, Perez, etc...

This just smells like another one of those "Baseball un-written rules/theories" that are purely myths. Pitcher is attacking the hitter, the manager/pitching coach along with advanced scouting should be equipping any catcher and the pitcher with what to throw to whom.....

By having Ross at Catcher with his bad bat...you have to make up for it with better production from the other spots in lineup. The last few years of good offense, were in part because we didn't have so many holes in the lineup. Larue/Valentin was a solid hitting combo, Felipe gave us great hitting from the SS hole, Aurillia was a solid hitter platooning at 2b, 3b and 1b, Kearns/Pena gave good production in RF, Freel was playing eons better than he has this year, etc... Now we have 2 or more holes in the lineup regularly...which is hurting right now.

[LvJ]

Sure am okay with it. I'd rather have him catch than anyone else on this team, so why not? He has some pop, has good fundamentals, can walk, and has a good arm. I'll keep him til we get that guy with the long name from the Braves. :)

[durl]

- So what kind of offensive production should a team expect from a catcher?
- And what should be the breakdown of offensive vs defensive contribution? 50/50?

Just FYI, Ross does have a better FP than Valentin (.994 to .987), but the Caught Stealing number says a lot: Ross has thrown out 12 of 26, but Valentin has thrown out ZERO of 11.