Jerry Narron: 2 Strikes and no balls

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

Yesterday Hopper was scratched last minute, Griffey moved from DH to RF and Valentin got the DH spot.

Why, Jerry Narron?

Lie: "I had a couple of different lineups," Reds manager Jerry Narron said. "One was posted ... I wanted to get Javy some at-bats at DH. Nothing was wrong with Hop."


Truth: "Because Ken Griffey Jr. told me so.:"

("I was slotted in the DH spot," Griffey said. "I talked to Jerry. I wanted to go out there because it wouldn't be fair to the people of Seattle to just have me DH.
"That was it.")



I'm not saying I don't like the switch. But if Griffey is making the lineups, then why does Narron even have a job? I like the way he squirmed around the question too... I'm surprised he didn't option EE to Louisville as a result. :rolleyes:

[George Anderson]

Um if Griffey was making out the lineup, dont ya think he would put himself back in centerfield??

[Jefferson24]

I wish Griffey would take over more of Jerry's duties, couldn't do any worse could he.

[CySeymour]

To be honest, I think Jr. has earned the right to make such a request.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

Again, I'm not saying it wasn't a good decision or a legitimate request.

But the way Narron weaseled around the question, rather than being confident enough to say "Griff asked me to change it, and I agreed," is VERY telling.

And the way Griffey, matter-of-factly said "because I talked to Narron" is also very telling.

Like I said: Jerry Narron: He's got 2 strikes and no balls.

[mroby85]

yeah, it doesn't hurt anything to let him play right in my opinion, it was kind of his weekend in my opinion.

[Redus]

At this point I'd be glad to appoint Griffey as player manager. Narron is so weak we couldnt be worse.

[Degenerate39]

If you take out the words "2 strikes and" then you get Jerry Narron: No Balls

[BLEEDS]

If you take out the words "2 strikes and" then you get Jerry Narron: No Balls

OH. That's Good.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[kaldaniels]

Yesterday Hopper was scratched last minute, Griffey moved from DH to RF and Valentin got the DH spot.

Why, Jerry Narron?

Lie: "I had a couple of different lineups," Reds manager Jerry Narron said. "One was posted ... I wanted to get Javy some at-bats at DH. Nothing was wrong with Hop."


Truth: "Because Ken Griffey Jr. told me so.:"

("I was slotted in the DH spot," Griffey said. "I talked to Jerry. I wanted to go out there because it wouldn't be fair to the people of Seattle to just have me DH.
"That was it.")



I'm not saying I don't like the switch. But if Griffey is making the lineups, then why does Narron even have a job? I like the way he squirmed around the question too... I'm surprised he didn't option EE to Louisville as a result. :rolleyes:

Nothing wrong with a vet going up to the skipper and saying he wants to play in the field. Nothing wrong if manager obliges the request either as long it isn't a horrible move (this wasn't). Thats how it is in the bigs. I don't like Narron's "lie"...but to harp on him for listening to Jr's request is a little extreme....it happens all the time (manager's listening to players). Give Narron a break. (I don't like Jerry, but this is ridiculous)

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

Nothing wrong with a vet going up to the skipper and saying he wants to play in the field. Nothing wrong if manager obliges the request either as long it isn't a horrible move (this wasn't). Thats how it is in the bigs. I don't like Narron's "lie"...but to harp on him for listening to Jr's request is a little extreme....it happens all the time (manager's listening to players). Give Narron a break. (I don't like Jerry, but this is ridiculous)


My point was only that Narron feeling that he had to lie about the reason for the lineup change, speaks volumes about his lack of leadership.

Again, I agreed with Griffey's request. A better manager might have had Griffey in RF to begin with. Who knows... But he obviously DH'ed Griffey for a reason. A good reason, I hope. It would have to be a good reason, to take Griffey out of the field during a series in SEATTLE. ;) Guess not though, because Narron then "changed his mind" after the request from Griffey, then tried to act like it was his idea. Again, the only thing missing was Narron forgot to option EE to Louisville when he got called on his lie. :)

The point to this thread was not to bash Narron aimlessly, but to chalk this up to yet another symptom of the need for a manager with a backbone.

And this is not to say Narron as a person doesn't have a backbone. I'm sure he does. But Narron as a Reds Manager? He manages scared. And that makes us a worse ballclub for it. Add his little "lie" to the list of reasons how.

:beerme:

[kaldaniels]

My point was only that Narron feeling that he had to lie about the reason for the lineup change, speaks volumes about his lack of leadership.

Again, I agreed with Griffey's request. A better manager might have had Griffey in RF to begin with. But he obviously DH'ed Griffey for a reason. Then "changed his mind" after the request from Griffey, then tried to act like it was his idea.

The point to this thread was not to bash Narron aimlessly, but to chalk this up to yet another symptom of the need for a manager with a backbone.

And this is not to say Narron as a person doesn't have a backbone. I'm sure he does. But Narron as a Reds Manager? He manages scared. And that makes us a worse ballclub for it. And his little "lie" to the list.

:beerme:

If that is your opinion so be it. Look at your first post though. You say in reference to the lie "I liked how Jerry squirmed around the question too." You said too because you did get on Narron for listening to Griffey and putting him in the field. Throwing up a post like this with the "no balls" title is asking for trouble. Your last post makes great sense and makes a great point. But lets not throw up your arms and act as if you didn't make an inflammatory thread. Rock on. :beerme:

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

If that is your opinion so be it. Look at your first post though. You say in reference to the lie "I liked how Jerry squirmed around the question too."

True.


You said too because you did get on Narron for listening to Griffey and putting him in the field.

No I did not. AGAIN, I actually agree with the decision, enough that I wonder why Narron DH'ed him in the first place, given the circumstances. 100 games out of 1st, 3 game series in Seattle. "Gee this seems like as good of a time as any to give Griffey a rest," Narron was thinking? :rolleyes:




Throwing up a post like this with the "no balls" title is asking for trouble.

I guess... :rolleyes: I was trying to make a point, be a little clever, and at the same time do so in a way that would not offend. Bound to offend someone though I guess.. My apologies to those who are washing their eyes out at this moment.




Your last post makes great sense and makes a great point. But lets not throw up your arms and act as if you didn't make an inflammatory thread. Rock on. :beerme:

Inflammatory to Jerry Narron maybe... I would cut and paste the "lighten up Francis" guy from Stripes, but no need to waste the bandwidth. :D

Hey to each his own, and hopefully I haven't ruffled too many feathers. Editors will tell you that a good headline means everything. I thought I had a pretty darn good one. And I stand by the substance of my thread as well.

As I have already quoted "Stripes," I will leave you with Ned Flanders:


"I like my forums like I like my Ice Cream. Plain." -Ned Flanders :evil:

[jimbo]

My point was only that Narron feeling that he had to lie about the reason for the lineup change, speaks volumes about his lack of leadership.

Again, I agreed with Griffey's request. A better manager might have had Griffey in RF to begin with. Who knows... But he obviously DH'ed Griffey for a reason. A good reason, I hope. It would have to be a good reason, to take Griffey out of the field during a series in SEATTLE. ;) Guess not though, because Narron then "changed his mind" after the request from Griffey, then tried to act like it was his idea. Again, the only thing missing was Narron forgot to option EE to Louisville when he got called on his lie. :)

The point to this thread was not to bash Narron aimlessly, but to chalk this up to yet another symptom of the need for a manager with a backbone.

And this is not to say Narron as a person doesn't have a backbone. I'm sure he does. But Narron as a Reds Manager? He manages scared. And that makes us a worse ballclub for it. Add his little "lie" to the list of reasons how.

:beerme:

This is just totally blowing something minor way out of proportion in my opinion, and making it into something it isn't. Narron has stated before that many times he makes up more than one lineup card a game before he decides on one. Maybe the one he eventually put out there was one he was considering and his reasonings behind it were exactly how he said. Calling him a liar is just speculation, baseless and unfair.

As far as not originally putting Jr. in RF, he is a manager first and foremost and it's his job to put what he feels is the best lineup on the field and to also give his veteran superstar a rest when it's most convenient. We may not always agree with it, but he has to put his team before what visiting fans want. Maybe he should have considered the circumstances more, but I won't hold it against him.

I'm not the biggest Narron fan either and I disagree with a lot of his decisions, but the bashing he gets by Reds fans is sometimes way over the top.

[kaldaniels]

Ludwig -

Wow. Look at your first post.

"But if Griffey is making the lineups, then why does Narron even have a job?"

Then when I said you know, it is ok for a manager to listen to his players sometimes, you said.

"My point was only that Narron feeling that he had to lie about the reason for the lineup change, speaks volumes about his lack of leadership."


So to say you were only getting on Narron for lying is ridiculous. You were also upset that Narron took Jr.'s advice. You questioned Narron's managerial skills/capability for listening to Jr, regardless of the outcome. Then, when I debated that point you threw up your arms and said "hey, i'm only upset that Jerry lied". It's right there for the masses to read. Post number 10 in this thread is all I was trying to say before the spin started. I'm not offended by your USA Today worthy headline, but was just expecting more I suppose. But hey, you're right....it made me read the article.

As an aside,as a huge Simpsons fan I am disgusted in your using Ned Flanders to degrade/mock/ridicule (pick one or more) me.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

I'm not saying I don't like the switch. But if Griffey is making....


:confused:



You got me. :thumbup: Thing is, I really was just talking about Narron lying. But now that you mention it, if Jr has to ask to play during those circumstances, then yes, I would question that too.

Ned Flanders is my favorite character on Simpsons by the way, so no harm intended. :beerme:


http://www.luc.edu/orgs/phoenix/images/Mar03/031903/Back-to-the-Future.jpg

"That was very...umm...interesting music, Marty."

[Vada Pinson Fan]

Narron's credibility is rapidly going down the drain with Reds fans and it's easy to understand why. Please read on.

Dick Wagner fired Sparky Anderson alledgedly for losing control of his team/players. Has Narron ever had or exhibited control here? So many Reds players are fundamentally unsound, year after year of ever-increasing strikeouts by Reds batters, no understanding of "little ball", a train wreck on the basepaths and while that may not be entirely Narron's fault, it is Narron's fault for allowing this amateurish play to continue. Do any of the Reds players understand what role they have on the team and what they should correctly do in any given circumstance while playing in a game?

Strange thing is when the Reds were playing the Texas Rangers, I decided to look at the Rangers' forum. I found quite a few people saying that when the team fired Jerry Narron it was "THE WORST" move the Rangers have done in the past several years. Narron had a better cast of players back then and managing in the American League is so much easier with the DH, so maybe Krivsky can trade Narron to Texas for.... some more bull. Texas Bull that is!

[nate]

Narron's credibility is rapidly going down the drain with Reds fans and it's easy to understand why. Please read on.

Dick Wagner fired Sparky Anderson alledgedly for losing control of his team/players. Has Narron ever had or exhibited control here? So many Reds players are fundamentally unsound, year after year of ever-increasing strikeouts by Reds batters, no understanding of "little ball", a train wreck on the basepaths and while that may not be entirely Narron's fault, it is Narron's fault for allowing this amateurish play to continue. Do any of the Reds players understand what role they have on the team and what they should correctly do in any given circumstance while playing in a game?


As constructed, its not really a "little ball" team.

Maybe they need Earl Weaver?