6/27/2007 Reds vs Phils

[flyer85]

Hamilton cf
Phillips 2b
Griffey rf
Conine 1b
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Harang p

[BRM]

Narron sure loves to use Conine as the cleanup hitter.

[KronoRed]

Narron sure loves to use Conine as the cleanup hitter.

Insanity.

[BRM]

Phillies lineup has been posted, courtesy of C. Trent.

Phils
Rollins ss
Bourn lf
Utley 2b
Howard 1b
Rowand cf
Vctorino lf
Nunez 3b
Ruiz c
Moyer p

[flyer85]

That Burrell is a very expensive bench player.

[BRM]

Career vs Moyer:

Conine - .360/.433/.760/1.193 in 29 plate appearances
Junior - .364/.417/.636/1.053 in 24 plate appearances
Gonzalez is 4-4 with 2 doubles and a homerun.

[Heath]

Career vs Moyer:

Conine - .360/.433/.760/1.193 in 29 plate appearances
Junior - .364/.417/.636/1.053 in 24 plate appearances
Gonzalez is 4-4 with 2 doubles and a homerun.

The need to know info is what Castro hits.


:D

[BRM]

The need to know info is what Castro hits.


:D

2-7 with a homerun. Good enough for a .286/.286/.714 line. I'm surprised Jerry didn't start him.

[Red Leader]

2-7 with a homerun. Good enough for a .286/.286/.714 line. I'm surprised Jerry didn't start him.

Nah, much better to save a bat like that for a late inning PH assignment.

[Matt700wlw]

Nah, much better to save a bat like that for a late inning PH assignment.

For Hamilton

[dabvu2498]

Narron sure loves to use Conine as the cleanup hitter.

Not alot of good options vs. LHPs, especially based on this year's stats. Not sure that's Narron's fault. :D

[WVRedsFan]

Kind of inconsistent.

I love Hamilton leading off, but it would seem that Narron's so matchup crazy that leading off a lefthander would be taboo. Strange.

Why is Phillips always batting at the top of the order? Oh, I forgot. Speed. Never mind that his OBP is, at .324 only 6th best. Jerry's lineup in OBP is:

.359
.324 (Phillips)
.385
.340
.361
.346
.297
.255

Conine at cleanup is really strange when your two power hitters are batting 3rd and 5th. Whoa! I forgot our two power hitters are leftys. Never mind their former success against the pitcher. We must split up those leftys, right?

It's really not that bad of a lineup (lilke I said, i especially like Hamilton leading off), but I would prefer:

Hamilton (.359)
Encarnacion (.346)
Griffey (.385)
Dunn (.361)
Conine (.340)
Phillips (.324)
Gonzo (.297)
Ross (.255).

[Kc61]

Kind of inconsistent.

I love Hamilton leading off, but it would seem that Narron's so matchup crazy that leading off a lefthander would be taboo. Strange.


Hamilton (.359)
Encarnacion (.346)
Griffey (.385)
Dunn (.361)
Conine (.340)
Phillips (.324)
Gonzo (.297)
Ross (.255).


I wouldn't bunch the lefties.

Not a bad idea to switch EE and Phillips for OBP reasons. Of course, in every other facet of the game Phillips is head and shoulders above EE this year. EE needs to get better or he is a minus as a third baseman. He's still young though.

[dabvu2498]

Jerry's lineup in OBP is:

.359
.324 (Phillips)
.385
.340
.361
.346
.297
.255


Here are their respective year to date OBP's (and OPS) vs. LH pitching

Hamilton .339 (.673)
Phillips .360 (.970)
Griffey .360 (.897)
Conine .340 (.816)
Dunn .339 (.756)
EE .333 (.644)
Gonzo .280 (.613)
Ross .261 (.690)

[CTA513]

I wouldn't bunch the lefties.

Not a bad idea to switch EE and Phillips for OBP reasons. Of course, in every other facet of the game Phillips is head and shoulders above EE this year. EE needs to get better or he is a minus as a third baseman. He's still young though.

Encarnacion is also better with RISP.

[Matt700wlw]

Moyer's first start against the Reds since 1991? Is that correct?

[Matt700wlw]

A soft-tossing, junk ball lefty...that rarely means good things for the Reds, a power hitting, free swinging club.

[Matt700wlw]

The Phillies have 3 "lead-off" hitters in their lineup....the Reds have 0.

[Danny Serafini]

Moyer's first start against the Reds since 1991? Is that correct?

He's been in the AL that long.

[Matt700wlw]

He's been in the AL that long.

He's just an old fart :D

[Danny Serafini]

That Phillies poem Marty just recited was about the cheesiest thing I've heard in a while. Yikes

[Matt700wlw]

Lively group tonight....


Not that I can blame people for having better things to do... :)

[flyer85]

Phillips had plenty of time ... but

[Red in Chicago]

nice stop by phillips, but poor throw to second...

[Danny Serafini]

It is pretty dead in here. Marty and Mark Sheldon are debating whether Coffey sprinting to the mound has something to do with the first batter hitting .355 off of him this year. I think they're bored too.

[Matt700wlw]

Coffey banter on the air....

[Matt700wlw]

It is pretty dead in here. Marty and Mark Sheldon are debating whether Coffey sprinting to the mound has something to do with the first batter hitting .355 off of him this year. I think they're bored too.

It's a fair question....something's not right...

Coffey said he didn't realize the numbers were that bad against the first batter, but does not plan on changing his enterance, no has he been asked.

Sheldon says Narron's thought about asking him, but hasn't.

[Red in Chicago]

this at bat will determine the outcome of the game:D

[Matt700wlw]

Marty says he would trade Arroyo if a team came knocking....and the return was there...


Would the Reds? I don't know

[Red in Chicago]

Griffey = sweetest swing in baseball

Harang = ugliest swing in baseball

[Tom Servo]

Moyer with the no-hitter through 3.

[Matt700wlw]

That Chase Utley guy can play some ball

[Reds Fanatic]

Harang strikes out Howard. 3 Ks for Harang. 0-0 through 3.

[Red in Chicago]

Reds really working the count so far this inning.

[CTA513]

Reds really working the count so far this inning.

Have to make sure Moyer can go all 9 innings.

[Reds Fanatic]

A very easy 1-2-3 inning for Moyer. I think he threw about 8 pitches that inning. Reds still being no hit through 4. 0-0.

[edabbs44]

A very easy 1-2-3 inning for Moyer. I think he threw about 8 pitches that inning. Reds still being no hit through 4. 0-0.

I knew they were going to be bad...but I didn't know it was going to be this bad. It's almost as if they try and outdo themselves each night.

[Reds Fanatic]

Still scoreless through 4.

Harang 62 pitches
Moyer 46 pitches.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn grounds out to the shortstop playing the shift.
Edwin flies out on the first pitch.
Gonzalez strikes out swinging. 5 Ks for Moyer who got through that inning on 10 pitches.

Reds are still being no hit through 5.

[Matt700wlw]

This is really sad.

[Ltlabner]

Phillies not exactly tearing it up either. 3 hits and a walk.

[penantboundreds]

yet harang has throw almost 80 pitches...

[Kc61]

Phillies not exactly tearing it up either. 3 hits and a walk.


But the Reds lose every day. The Phillies don't.

You look at the Reds roster and it is not this bad. I've never seen a managerial staff get less out of a group of ballplayers. I like Narron -- engaging on the radio shows, knows baseball. But c'mon, this has to end.

[REDREAD]

This might be the shortest game thread ever. :(

[Reds Fanatic]

Utley with a 10 pitch AB draws a walk to make it 1st and 2nd with 2 outs.

[REDREAD]

Oh no.. 3-0 Phils.. HR by Howard.

[Red in Chicago]

Well, that was smart pitching:rolleyes:

[penantboundreds]

damn

[Reds Fanatic]

3 run HR for Howard. 3-0 Phillies.

[Marc D]

That wasn't too predictable

thanks for coming, have a safe drive home

[Matt700wlw]

That should take care of things...

[CTA513]

You might not want to throw fastballs right down the middle.

[Reds Fanatic]

Inning over. 3-0 Phillies after 5.

Harang 84 pitches
Moyer 56 pitches.

[redsrule2500]

Grande can't be a Reds fan....he sounded way too happy with that homer.

Unless he's just numb to the pain already.

[CTA513]

Well, that was smart pitching:rolleyes:

Right down the middle is Reds pitching.

[Red in Chicago]

You might not want to throw fastballs right down the middle.

or walk the guy in front just before you do

[REDREAD]

Yeah, our win expectancy is probably only 15%, by my wild-guess method..

[flyer85]

hopefully the Reds will get a hit

[Marc D]

You might not want to throw fastballs right down the middle.


to Ryan Howard

[redsrule2500]

How are we this bad? Insane.

[Danny Serafini]

This might be the shortest game thread ever. :(

Wait until September.

[MrCinatit]

Grande can't be a Reds fan....he sounded way too happy with that homer.

Unless he's just numb to the pain already.

He's always been pretty good at cheering for the other team - especially if they are the Cardinals.

Do you realize we are getting no-hit by a guy who made his major league about one month after the birth of yesterday's starting pitcher?

[redsrule2500]

We better get a hit. That would be the cap on this disgusting season.

[CTA513]

to Ryan Howard

to anyone thats not a weak hitting pitcher.

[redsrule2500]

David Ross - maybe he will be batting .200 by the All Star Break!

^These are the reasons we suck.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ross with a half swing strikeout. 6 Ks for Moyer.

[Marc D]

How are we this bad? Insane.


Ask Wayne

[Cyclone792]

FSN is teasing the heck out of me by showing video from Geno's Steaks. I swear I'm not lying when I say that a Geno's cheesesteak (pro wit-out) is one of the greatest things I've ever eaten.

[flyer85]

I would have PH for Harang

[Reds Fanatic]

Harang swings at a low outside pitch. 7 Ks for Moyer.

[CTA513]

I would have PH for Harang

Harang has to throw his 110+ pitches before he can leave.

[redsrule2500]

FINALLY~!!!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Finally. Hamilton singles to center.

[vaticanplum]

One of these days we're all going to hear a pop on the radio as Marty explodes in frustration. He's quickly closing in on Santos, just with a bit more acerbic wit and a whole lot less joy.

[Matt700wlw]

It takes a rookie, who shouldn't be doing anything to the level he's doing it to get the first hit.

[MrCinatit]

End of the no-no.
Should I feel guilty because I am kind of disappointed?

[vaticanplum]

Santo, not Santos. Oy.

[Matt700wlw]

One of these days we're all going to hear a pop on the radio as Marty explodes in frustration. He's quickly closing in on Santos, just with a bit more acerbic wit and a whole lot less joy.


Brain goo probably would short out some of the electrical equipment in the booth.

[edabbs44]

We better get a hit. That would be the cap on this disgusting season.

It's not even July. Wait until the fire sale when we are complaining that Castro shouldn't be hitting 8th.

[Danny Serafini]

Well, that's the end of tonight's suspense I suppose.

[Red in Chicago]

I love how I was looking for tickets to some games next month when Howard hit the home run. Tell me that wasn't a sign:p:

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips singles to center. 1st and 2nd.

[Danny Serafini]

It's not even July. Wait until the fire sale when we are complaining that Castro shouldn't be hitting 8th.

I've got this dreaded feeling that we might revisit the summer of 2003 this August and September. Career minor leaguers will be lining up for their shot at the roster. Who will be this year's Jim Chamblee?

[Matt700wlw]

Griffey could be the one to change our minds about this one being over....at least for now.

[REDREAD]

I've got this dreaded feeling that we might revisit the summer of 2003 this August and September. Career minor leaguers will be lining up for their shot at the roster. Who will be this year's Jim Chamblee?

Or what about the next Norton and Thug Life? :laugh:

[redsrule2500]

Ughhhhhh Griffey is soooo good but the Reds are sooooo bad.

Is this the rule for the team? It seems like if Griffey has a good year the reds are terrible. If he has a bad year, they are mediocre. lol

[redsrule2500]

dangit :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[redsrule2500]

Why do I still torture myself with this team... :(

[REDREAD]

That's a bummer, Jr K's..

I think I'm going to bail.. Got stuff to do.. Get a win for me while I'm gone.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior strikes out swinging. 8 Ks for Moyer. 3-0 Phillies mid 6th.

[Red in Chicago]

You put Moyer in a Reds uniform and he would have given up 5 or 6 runs by now.

[flyer85]

Everyone in the lineup had struck out with the exception of EE

[Reds Fanatic]

End of 6. 3-0 Phillies.

93 pitches for Harang.
77 pitches for Moyer.

[vaticanplum]

Why do I still torture myself with this team... :(

I think we all have Stockholm Syndrome.

[Reds Fanatic]

Conine leads off with a single to center.

[Danny Serafini]

Conine exacting revenge on the Phillies for dealing him! Well, it sounded good anyway.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn walks. 1st and 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion walks. Bases loaded with no outs.

[Red in Chicago]

Bases loaded, nobody out. The Reds have got to score here.

[Red in Chicago]

Can the Phillies bring in Todd Coffey to pitch :D

[Danny Serafini]

Moyer's been chased from the game. Don't know yet who is coming in.

[Reds Fanatic]

Geoff Geary in to pitch.

[CTA513]

Bases loaded, nobody out. The Reds have got to score here.

Phillies are looking for a triple play.

[Cyclone792]

Average run expectancy for bases loaded and nobody out is 2.417 runs. We'll see what this lineup can do.

The Reds need AT LEAST three runs this inning.

[redsrule2500]

2.4 average, very interesting

[Danny Serafini]

Jeff Brantley describing Alex Gonzalez's stance:

"His chin is pointed down the left field line, his shoulder is pointed down the right field line, and I don't know where his bat is pointed but it's not at the ball."

[Red in Chicago]

Gonzo!!!!!!

[guttle11]

That close!!!

2 runs score.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez with a 2 run double off the top of the wall in right. 3-2 Phillies. 2nd and 3rd.

[redsrule2500]

Yay GONZO!!!!! Great at bat

[Danny Serafini]

I guess that stance works!

[CTA513]

Just missed a grandslam.
They should be able to tie it up with 0 outs and runners at 2nd and 3rd.

[Red in Chicago]

Now that we've got the 2, how do we get the .4:D

[Cyclone792]

Run expectancy for 2nd and 3rd with nobody out is now 2.052 runs.

The Reds need to get both those baserunners in to score. No excuses, and no exceptions.

[Matt700wlw]

Hey, runs!

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin pinch hitting.

[Falls City Beer]

AGon's all grip it and rip it. Sometimes it works.

[redsrule2500]

Harang staying...blahhhhhh

[WVRedsFan]

Anyone but me disagree with PH-ing Javier here?

No answers because I guess it was a stupid question..
Tied

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin singles to left. Tie game 3-3! 1st and 3rd.

[Red in Chicago]

No victory for Moyer tonight.

[Cyclone792]

Run expectancy with runners on 1st and 3rd and nobody out is 1.904 runs.

Yea, I'll get greedy and say that the Reds need to score at least two more runs right here. ;)

[Matt700wlw]

Tie game

[Danny Serafini]

Anyone but me disagree with PH-ing Javier here?

Right now yes. ;)

[Reds Fanatic]

I don't get Harang batting here. He has already thrown 93 pitches and you have to score here.

[Falls City Beer]

I don't get Harang batting here. He has already thrown 93 pitches and you have to score here.

I agree completely. Score first, worry about pitching later.

[CTA513]

Anyone but me disagree with PH-ing Javier here?

No answers because I guess it was a stupid question..
Tied

He was probably the best option off the bench to get a fly ball that would tie the game.

[Danny Serafini]

I don't get Harang batting here. He has already thrown 93 pitches and you have to score here.

Problem is turning the bullpen lose for 3 innings in a tie game. Besides, Harang is just laying down a bunt, so that's fine. No need to burn a PH for that.

[Reds Fanatic]

Harang sacrifices the runner to 2nd. 2nd and 3rd with 1 out.

[Matt700wlw]

Josh up....how big would this be?

[NJReds]

I don't get Harang batting here. He has already thrown 93 pitches and you have to score here.

If you have one ounce of faith in your pen, then the pitcher doesn't bat here.

[Matt700wlw]

IBB for Josh

[redsrule2500]

bases loaded with only 1 out - whats the run expectancy??????

[Reds Fanatic]

Intentional walk to Hamilton loads the bases.

[Red in Chicago]

I hope Brandon shows a little patience with the bases loaded.

[Matt700wlw]

If you have one ounce of faith in your pen, then the pitcher doesn't bat here.

If there were 2 outs, Harang probably doesn't bat either...at least in my world.

Jerry's probably not in my world ;)

[WVRedsFan]

I don't get Harang batting here. He has already thrown 93 pitches and you have to score here.

Narron ball. Thou shalt not trust thy bullpen and thou shalt abuse thy starter.

Narron ball. Catch it.

[oneupper]

I don't get Harang batting here. He has already thrown 93 pitches and you have to score here.

It's silly. Narron will do ANYTHING to get Harang out there again. That's why he used Valentin for Ross, hoping the game would be at least be tied and he would "have to" PH for Harang.

Letting AH hit is a bad percentage move. Having him bunt is even worse.

[Cyclone792]

bases loaded with only 1 out - whats the run expectancy??????

1.650 runs for bases loaded and one out.

It's interesting how that transpired ... 1st and 3rd and nobody out was 1.904 runs, then 2nd and 3rd with one out was 1.467 runs after Harang's bunt, and then the run expectancy jumps to 1.650 runs after Hamilton's intentional walk.

[WVRedsFan]

I hope Brandon shows a little patience with the bases loaded.

Never. Hacks at the first one and takes the second on--slow curve or changeup right down the middle. He'll never learn

[Reds Fanatic]

1 run single for Phillips! 4-3 Reds. Bases still loaded.

[Matt700wlw]

Phillies bullpen is Reds-like...

[redsrule2500]

haha one inning ago they were cheering him, now booing him lol

[Red in Chicago]

Brandon comes through with a clutch single. Funny how this game has turned around this inning.

[WVRedsFan]

On second thought, Brandon's at-bat was brilliant. :D

[redsrule2500]

1 run single you mean??

[Matt700wlw]

All that crap I spouted about this one being over after the 3 run homer....


...forget it :D

[Danny Serafini]

Harang in line for win number nine.

[Reds Fanatic]

1 run single you mean??Yeah I assumed 2 were going to score but Valentin held at 3rd.

[Danny Serafini]

Someone named Mike Zagurski in to pitch. Anyone got a scouting report. He's a lefty.

[Matt700wlw]

Griffey up....


Hmmmmmmmmm...

[WVRedsFan]

Wonder why the 3rd base coach has become timid all of a sudden?

[Red in Chicago]

All that crap I spouted about this one being over after the 3 run homer....


...forget it :D


Wait until the bottom of the 8th;)

[redsrule2500]

yay its zagurski. whatever that means

[Reds Fanatic]

Someone named Mike Zagurski in to pitch. Anyone got a scouting report. He's a lefty.Don't know anything about him but he has 5.06 ERA and a 6.68 ERA in June.

[CTA513]

Harang in line for win number nine.

I just hope hes not tired from throwing the 90+ pitches on a hot day.

[Cyclone792]

The Reds started the inning off by loading the bases, and so far they've scored four runs. The percentage of innings that start off with the bases loaded and wind up with five or more runs scoring is 13 percent.

[Always Red]

It's silly. Narron will do ANYTHING to get Harang out there again. That's why he used Valentin for Ross, hoping the game would be at least be tied and he would "have to" PH for Harang.

Letting AH hit is a bad percentage move. Having him bunt is even worse.

I respectfully disagree. Harang's only up there to bunt, no use using a PH for that.

He's got one more inning left in him, and like it or not, he's better than anyone else down there in the bullpen.

At some point I think you have to try to win a game, and not be a slave to pitch counts, especially when he's at 93. If he's at 110, I agree with you.

Having said that, I fully expect Narron's strategy to backfire on him; it's been that kind of year for JN. Even the moves he makes that I agree with never seem to work out for him. :(

[Danny Serafini]

I just hope hes not tired from throwing the 90+ pitches on a hot day.

Here's a horse, I'm sure he'll make it through the 7th OK.

[Red in Chicago]

yay its zagurski. whatever that means

it must mean chubby

[redsrule2500]

yay 6-3! w00t jr!

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior singles to left. 6-3 Reds! 1st and 3rd.

[Matt700wlw]

Griffey!!

[Danny Serafini]

I fully expect Narron's strategy to backfire on him; it's been that kind of year for JN. Even the moves he makes that I agree with never seem to work out for him. :(

Sure seems that way. I don't think he's Manager of the Year material by any means, but the poor guy has had some rotten luck this year as well.

[CrackerJack]

Having BP in front of Jr. is a good way to go

[redsrule2500]

DANG! Conine is old! (relatively that is)

What a great player!! (41)

[Danny Serafini]

The Reds started the inning off by loading the bases, and so far they've scored four runs. The percentage of innings that start off with the bases loaded and wind up with five or more runs scoring is 13 percent.

So what are the odds of 6? Or more?

[CTA513]

Does anyone think Zagurski is really 225 pounds?

[redsrule2500]

crappppp!

[Cyclone792]

So what are the odds of 6? Or more?

I'm not sure as I'll have to find a new chart. :laugh: That's always a good problem to have when it's the Reds up to bat and they go off the charts with run frequency.

http://www.tangotiger.net/RE9902score.html

[Reds Fanatic]

Conine strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[redsrule2500]

Cyclone, where do you pulls this stuff from?!?!

[redsrule2500]

0-2 to Dunn - You know what that means

[Cyclone792]

Cyclone, where do you pulls this stuff from?!?!

All the stuff I've been using in the game thread tonight has been on Tango Tiger's site.

http://www.tangotiger.net

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn lines out to short. 6-3 Reds mid 7th.

[Red in Chicago]

Will three runs be enough to win this one?

[CTA513]

Dunn lines out to short. 6-3 Reds mid 7th.

Hit the ball hard, but Rollins was in the right area.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rollins singles to left center.

[Cyclone792]

Harang's velocity on those fastballs to Rollins were in the 84-86 mph range. IIRC, it's extremely hot in Philly tonight and Harang could just be gassed by now. This makes me wonder why he's still in the game ...

[oneupper]

I respectfully disagree. Harang's only up there to bunt, no use using a PH for that.

He's got one more inning left in him, and like it or not, he's better than anyone else down there in the bullpen.

At some point I think you have to try to win a game, and not be a slave to pitch counts, especially when he's at 93. If he's at 110, I agree with you.

Having said that, I fully expect Narron's strategy to backfire on him; it's been that kind of year for JN. Even the moves he makes that I agree with never seem to work out for him. :(


I did a little arithmetic on the "bunt the runner over to second" move (runners on corners no outs). I'll find the thread later. It turns out that doing that...rather than hitting away with the pitcher, lowers your win expectancy by somewhere in the order of 1.5% (I suspect it is even more tonights situation).

As for hitting for Harang or not...that's another situation (I'll do the math when I have the time), but in any case by letting Harang hit you lower your run (or win) expectancy by an amount that must be offset by his pitching in the next inning (as opposed to a reliever). Since the situation is so high leveraged (game tied...no outs...man on corners), the difference between between Harang and the reliever has to be HUGE. 1 or 2 pts of ERA is not going to do it.

Narron has done this before. It's poor strategy.

Apparently this time he WONT pay for it. It's his lucky day.

[Danny Serafini]

Sure does sound like Harang's zip is gone.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dobbs doubles in a run. 6-4. Why is Harang still in there?

[Reds Fanatic]

Coutlangus in to pitch.

[Cyclone792]

I did a little arithmetic on the "bunt the runner over to second" move (runners on corners no outs). I'll find the thread later. It turns out that doing that...rather than hitting away with the pitcher, lowers your win expectancy by somewhere in the order of 1.5% (I suspect it is even more tonights situation).

As for hitting for Harang or not...that's another situation (I'll do the math when I have the time), but in any case by letting Harang hit you lower your run (or win) expectancy by an amount that must be offset by his pitching in the next inning (as opposed to a reliever). Since the situation is so high leveraged (game tied...no outs...man on corners), the difference between between Harang and the reliever has to be HUGE. 1 or 2 pts of ERA is not going to do it.

Narron has done this before. It's poor strategy.

Apparently this time he WONT pay for it. It's his lucky day.

Sad thing is Narron's already paying for it. Harang coughed up a run and put a runner on 2nd base with nobody out before Narron bothered to lift him finally.

[Always Red]

Apparently this time he WONT pay for it. It's his lucky day.

Not so fast, oneupper, it's not JN's lucky year...

[Falls City Beer]

Now that really was horrible managing. I don't get as worked up as a lot of you folks about Jerry, but not taking Aaron out had disaster written all over it.

[oneupper]

Coutlangus in to pitch.

I stand corrected. Narron pays for his moves tonight. He gets no return for the free out he gave up with Harang.

[Reds Fanatic]

This is where I totally disagree with Narron's approach again. If you pinch hit for Harang Coutlangus comes into the inning at the beginning. Instead a run is already in and Coutlangus comes into a pressure situation with a runner in scoring position.

[Matt700wlw]

Now that really was horrible managing. I don't get as worked up as a lot of you folks about Jerry, but not taking Aaron out had disaster written all over it.

I don't mind him letting him pitch....he wasn't even at 100 pitches....he's shown he can handle a workload of that more often than not.

If Harang goes out there and isn't gassed, you'd think he can get through it and be between 105-110 pitches....then be done for the night.

That was one of those either way moves to me...and unfortunately, it went the wrong way. He was gassed........maybe Jerry should have known that, maybe not...he looked fine the inning before.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ball goes off Valentin's glove. Runner at 3rd with no outs.

[CTA513]

Now its time for Coutlangus to walk Utley and then have Howard hit another 3 run homerun.

[Reds Fanatic]

4 pitch walk to Utley. Howard up with runners at 1st and 3rd.

[redsrule2500]

only the reds. i had a good mood for about 10 mins tonight at least.

[Gallen5862]

How did Harang look tonight?

[Cyclone792]

I almost wish I was in Philly tonight to hear what Phillies fans were calling Coutlangus when he was warming up in the bullpen. There's a long railing just above the bullpen where lines of fans just stand to watch the game, and half those fans will just absolutely berate the opposing team's relievers as they warm up.

It's not like fans are somewhat far away either; they are right there and close enough that they might as well be in the bullpen themselves.

[vaticanplum]

Oh my god I just came back and the Reds are winning a baseball game!!!

[Reds Fanatic]

Howard strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[guttle11]

Jerry Narron just can't let a three run lead be good enough. I don't care if your bullpen is bad, you simply have to take your starter out in that situation.

Others have said it, and I believe it's 100% true. He's managing to keep his job, and that's the worst thing for this team right now.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice job...

Double switch time, which probably means Castro

[Reds Fanatic]

McBeth in to pitch.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hatteberg in to play 1st as part of the double switch. So Hatteberg bats 9th and McBeth is batting 4th.

[Gallen5862]

Lets go Mcbeth.

[REDREAD]

Wow, we came back.. Let's hope McBeth can do the job.

[Matt700wlw]

Hatteberg in to play 1st as part of the double switch. So Hatteberg bats 9th and McBeth is batting 4th.

I thought for sure he'd find a way to get Castro in there....

of course, there's still time :D

[REDREAD]

Hatteberg in to play 1st as part of the double switch. So Hatteberg bats 9th and McBeth is batting 4th.


Jerry is saving Castro for the crucial PH opportunity later :laugh:

[Matt700wlw]

:lol:

only the Reds - it hits the ump and bounces away, allowing a run to score

[REDREAD]

Wow, now that's a wild pitch..

[Reds Fanatic]

That pitch looked like it hit Valentin in the helmet. 6-5 the other runner goes all the way to 3rd.

I guess it hit the ump. Was easily catchable must have been a pitch Valentin was not looking for.

[REDREAD]

Ok.. passed ball.. I was going on the radio description.

[Matt700wlw]

This team will find a way to blow this game

[Big Klu]

I'm guessing that's Valentin's second passed ball, but that one had to have been a mixup.

[Danny Serafini]

I didn't know that could even happen. I thought a ball off an ump was dead. Learn something new every day I guess.

[flyer85]

this team is simply amazing

[Reds Fanatic]

2nd passed ball of the inning.

[Big Klu]

I didn't know that could even happen. I thought a ball off an ump was dead. Learn something new every day I guess.

Nope. Umpires are part of the field of play.

[Cyclone792]

A massive combination of bad managing and bad bullpens is doing its best to turn a pitcher's duel into a slugfest.

[Danny Serafini]

Billings put up a 2 run 1st for those interested, 2-0 mid 2nd.

[Matt700wlw]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :angry: :rant:

[Marc D]

Wasted little time giving that all back

[remdog]

There's a good chance that Valintin will never catch another inning for the Reds this year. :angry:

Rem

[Reds Fanatic]

Rowand singles past a drawn in infield. Tie game 6-6. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this team.

[flyer85]

there was the double play grounder

[Big Klu]

Billings put up a 2 run 1st for those interested, 2-0 mid 2nd.

Is this the season opener for the 'Stangs?

[vaticanplum]

This bullpen should be paying the front office. If I performed this badly at work, I think I would walk up to my boss and turn in my paycheck.

[Always Red]

There's a good chance that Valintin will never catch another inning for the Reds this year. :angry:

Rem

That would be a very good thing.

[Matt700wlw]

Valentin has the worst arm.

I could run backwards, on my hands, fall over 4 times, and steal a base on him

[Red in Chicago]

Will three runs be enough to win this one?

no...and jv is aweful behind the dish

[Matt700wlw]

This bullpen should be paying the front office. If I performed this badly at work, I think I would walk up to my boss and turn in my paycheck.

No you wouldn't, but they may make you. :)

[guttle11]

This is Narron's doing.

I'd bet the farm they'd be batting in the 8th with a minimum 2 run lead if McBeth or Cooter would have started this inning.

[CTA513]

there was the double play grounder

Its now a single because they have a pinch hitter playing catcher.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rowand easily steals 2nd as Valentin bounces the throw to 2nd.

[Danny Serafini]

Is this the season opener for the 'Stangs?

Knew their season had started, didn't realize it was game 9 already. They're 5-3, one game up in the North division.

[Reds Fanatic]

Victorino pops out to 2nd. 2 outs.

[vaticanplum]

Who are the Stangs? Can we follow them instead?

[flyer85]

I expect a bloop hit from Nunez ... or Ruiz

[Always Red]

This is Narron's doing.

I'd bet the farm they'd be batting in the 8th with a minimum 2 run lead if McBeth or Cooter would have started this inning.

Maybe. But he pulled Belisle out in Oakland with a lead, and McBeth and Coutlangus put the A's back in the lead in the 7th.

[Matt700wlw]

This is Narron's doing.

I'd bet the farm they'd be batting in the 8th with a minimum 2 run lead if McBeth or Cooter would have started this inning.

I said earlier, that I really didn't mind Harang batting there with his pitch count....and I still don't.

However, I may be onto something. The imploding inning seems to always start when a reliever has to come in with guys on base....not always, but often.

Maybe a different approach would make things more effective. Have the relievers come in without guys on base (when possible...I understand it's not always going to work out that way) and see if they're more effective.

[Reds Fanatic]

Intentional walk to Nunez.

[Big Klu]

Knew their season had started, didn't realize it was game 9 already. They're 5-3, one game up in the North division.

How many years has Billings been associated with Cincinnati? The Mustangs have been the Reds' rookie team for as long as I can remember.

[Always Red]

How many years has Billings been associated with Cincinnati? The Mustangs have been the Reds' rookie team for as long as I can remember.

Is that team stocked with guys who have just been drafted? Do most of them sign that quickly?

[vaticanplum]

Ah...Stangs = Mustangs. Wow. I am dense as a brick.

[edabbs44]

This is Narron's doing.

I'd bet the farm they'd be batting in the 8th with a minimum 2 run lead if McBeth or Cooter would have started this inning.

Ever hear "Damned if you do, damned if you don't"?

If he pinch hit for Harang and the Reds bullpen pulled a "Reds bullpen", everyone would be up in arms about how Harang is your horse and he's got to go at least 7 for this game since the bullpen is so bad.

Narron is screwed either way...maybe if Krivsky acquired ONE good reliever, this wouldn't happen. But it always does. I can't blame Narron. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Danny Serafini]

How many years has Billings been associated with Cincinnati? The Mustangs have been the Reds' rookie team for as long as I can remember.

Since sometime in the '60s I believe. They've been around forever. A friend of mine actually went to Billings a couple of years ago for a bowling tournament, and he didn't think to have him grab me a Mustangs hat until after he got back. Still kicking myself for that. Of course minor league gear is risky, I bought an Indianapolis Indians hat about a month before the Reds announced they were switching to Louisville. Anyone want a very slightly used Indianapolis Indians hat?

[guttle11]

I said earlier, that I really didn't mind Harang batting there with his pitch count....and I still don't.

However, I may have figured this out. The imploding inning seem to always start when a reliever has to come in with guys on base....

Maybe a different approach would make things more effective.

Exactly.

You can't turn a game over to a bad bullpen with runners on base. Just can't do it.

And Harang had thrown 90+ pitches. It is legal to let them throw less than 100 pitches, especially those guys who you are counting on to lead your staff for the foreseeable future.

Like I said, he's not managing the team, he's managing to save his job. Not only is he a bad manager, but he's already putting his team behind the 8-ball.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ruiz grounds out to the pitcher. 6-6 after 7.

[Falls City Beer]

Ever hear "Damned if you do, damned if you don't"?

If he pinch hit for Harang and the Reds bullpen pulled a "reds bullpen", everyone would be up in arms about how Harang is your horse and he's got to go at least 7 for this game since the bullpen is so bad.

Narron is screwed either way...maybe if Krivsky acquired ONE good reliever, this wouldn't happen. But it always does. I can't blame Narron. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Again, I disagree. I recommended pulling Harang before any of this. Check it.

[CTA513]

How many runs score if Valentin wasn't catching that inning?

[Always Red]

How many runs score if Valentin wasn't catching that inning?

An excellent question.

Narron's not a great manager by any stretch, but letting Valentin catch is a FO decision. And a bad one, at that.

[Reds Fanatic]

Brian Sanches in to pitch.

[Matt700wlw]

An excellent question.

Narron's not a great manager by any stretch, but letting Valentin catch is a FO decision. And a bad one, at that.

Actually that's Narron's decision for PHing him for David Ross...so he can take over behind the plate.

It's been reported by the Reds that bringing Moeller up would allow them to use Valentin as a pinch hitter, and an emergency 3rd catcher/1B....

Well, that of course is not happening.