7/1/07 vs Cardinals -- can the Reds win a series?????

[Matt700wlw]

REDS
Hopper, cf
Phillips, 2b
Griffey Jr., rf
Conine, 1b
Dunn, lf
Encarnacion, 3b
Gonzalez, ss
Ross, c
Bailey, rhp

CARDINALS
Taguchi, cf
Miles, ss
Pujols, 1b
Duncan, lf
Rolen, 3b
Ludwick, rf
Kennedy, 2b
Bennett, c
Maroth, lhp

[KittyDuran]

What!!!??? No Hambone?!!!:( Good thing Chip will be playing after the game. :)

[PuffyPig]

The one big sign that Griffey is healthier than he has been for years is the fact that he doesn't automatically sit when the Reds play a day game after a night game.

[jojo]

Remove Pujols and the Cards don't strike me as a terribly disciplined offense. This could be a game that marginalizes bad Homer's command issues. If good Homer shows up, this could be ALOT of fun to watch.

[KronoRed]

I thought Jerry had finally given up on the Hopper leadoff idea, rather see anyone there then Hopper.

[Matt700wlw]

Homer got a hair cut...all is good now :D

[Reds Fanatic]

Taguchi singles to center.

[Matt700wlw]

The last pitch registered at 98...(the Taguchi hit)

[Reds Fanatic]

Miles grounds to 2nd but reaches as the ball gets by Bailey covering first. Miles is thrown out trying to go to 2nd. Runner at 3rd with 1 out.

[Matt700wlw]

Close play at home...nice throw by Griffey.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pujols with a sac. fly to right. Junior almost threw the runner out at home. 1-0 Cards.

[CrackerJack]

nice throw - just missed him

[OnBaseMachine]

Should be an unearned run. Bailey is hitting 95-96 reguarly.

[redsfan30]

Good to see Homer's velocity up a bit.

[Reds Fanatic]

Duncan bloops a single to right.

[Matt700wlw]

Get the ball down a bit, Homer....I like the zip on it today, though

[Big Klu]

I thought Jerry had finally given up on the Hopper leadoff idea, rather see anyone there then Hopper.

I don't mind Hopper playing against lefties. If I recall, Hopper's numbers against lefties are pretty decent. And if you are going to give Hamilton a day off (which he will need now and then-he's already played more this season than he ever has), best to do it against a "kooky left-hander". :D

[Big Klu]

Should be an unearned run. Bailey is hitting 95-96 reguarly.


Duncan bloops a single to right.

Now it's an earned run.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen bloops a single to right. 1st and 3rd.

[OnBaseMachine]

Yet another bloop single. A faster RFer catches that.

[Matt700wlw]

Narron and trainer out to check on Bailey...

[CrackerJack]

If BP would've caught that, might've been the best catch I've ever seen :)

[Matt700wlw]

Taguchi had the only hard hit ball of the inning...

[Big Klu]

Yet another bloop single. A faster RFer catches that.

But a faster RF might not hit .290 with 21 HR's and 50 RBI's.

[Big Klu]

Homer's fastball has got some hair on it today!

[Matt700wlw]

K!

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick strikes out swinging on a 96 MPH fastball. 1-0 Cards mid 1st.

[Reds Fanatic]

27 pitches for Bailey in the 1st with 16 of them strikes.

[CrackerJack]

28 pitches in the 1st, yikes. (and no walks)

[Reds Fanatic]

Hopper reaches on an infield single.

[OnBaseMachine]

The umpire wouldn't give Homer anything on the outside corner in the first inning. Let's see if he does that both ways or if he's just squeezing Homer.

[dougdirt]

But a faster RF might not hit .290 with 21 HR's and 50 RBI's.

No, they wouldnt because offensively its Griffey, Hawpe.... huge gap then everyone else offensively in RF. Griffey has an OPS over .950. Hawpe is at .913. The 3rd best RF in the NL is at .811. I will sacrafice Griffeys defense for what he does far and away better than every other right fielder in the NL..... hit.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips homers to right center! 2-1 Reds.

[Matt700wlw]

:phillips:

:jump:

[CrackerJack]

Love Phillips...fun to watch

[Matt700wlw]

Brandon Phillips is a special talent

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior strikes out swinging on an inside pitch. 1 out.

[dougdirt]

Looks like Homer isnt going to get the outside part of the plate but Maroth is. Great.

[Big Klu]

Brandon Phillips is a special talent

I truly believe that Brandon Phillips is a star in the making.

[Reds Fanatic]

Conine lines out to right. 2 outs.

[Matt700wlw]

Interesting Fay thread in the other room about Narron's days possibly being numbered....numbered to the point that today could be it for him.


Who knows.

[OnBaseMachine]

That answers our question. Homer is getting squeezed. Dunn just had a 2-1 pitch called a strike and it had to be six inches off the plate. Questec please. Eliminate the cheating.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn grounds out to 1st. 2-1 Reds after 1.

[Big Klu]

I think a big part of Danny Graves' problem as a starter was his refusal to pitch out of the windup. Constantly pitching out of the stretch put more strain on his arm.

(George and Jeff are talking about the Cardinals' converted relievers in the rotation, and mentioned how Graves tried it for the Reds.)

BOOOOOOO Danny Graves!!!! :D

[OnBaseMachine]

Wow. Where was that 1-0 pitch?

[Reds Fanatic]

Kennedy walks.

[OnBaseMachine]

Unreal. 3-2 pitch is over the plate and called a ball. Ridiculous.

[Falls City Beer]

To all those who think it's completely and totally and utterly impossible to improve the Reds, Dave Dombrowski and the Tigers have just acquired fireballer Jose Capellan for nothing, some single-A dross.

Dave D. should win the Nobel Peace Prize or something for that.

[Reds Fanatic]

Homer is definetly getting squeezed and the pitch count is up to 35.

[Falls City Beer]

Homer is definetly getting squeezed and the pitch count is up to 35.

When you don't throw strikes that often, you're not going to get the benefit of the doubt.

[Reds Fanatic]

Bennett doubles off the wall in left just above Dunn's glove. 2nd and 3rd.

[dougdirt]

Well, this looks to be a fun day......

[Reds Fanatic]

Maroth grounds out to Bailey. 1 out.

[dougdirt]

When you don't throw strikes that often, you're not going to get the benefit of the doubt.

maybe becuase he gets squeezed? Homer is no control artist, but he is throwing strikes that are being called balls.

[Falls City Beer]

Bennett doubles off the wall in left just above Dunn's glove. 2nd and 3rd.

Homer's ready for the majors? Undoubtedly he's being told to slow his pitches down to get 'em over the plate. What a joke.

[Matt700wlw]

When you don't throw strikes that often, you're not going to get the benefit of the doubt.

I'm also guessing rookie pitchers don't "get calls" very often anyway....you have to earn it.

[OnBaseMachine]

When you don't throw strikes that often, you're not going to get the benefit of the doubt.

When you throw balls over the plate and their called balls, you're not going to low walk totals.

[OnBaseMachine]

Homer's ready for the majors? Undoubtedly he's being told to slow his pitches down to get 'em over the plate. What a joke.

Despite the fact that he is throwing 95-96 and has hit hit 98 today. Facts my man. Let's use them.

[Reds Fanatic]

Taguchi singles to center. Tie game 2-2. 1st and 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Miles with a sac. fly to center. 3-2 Cards. 2 outs.

[Falls City Beer]

Taguchi singles to center. Tie game 2-2. 1st and 3rd.

He's awfully easy to hit for a guy throwing 95-95 routinely.

I don't for one second believe the gun at the stadium.

[dougdirt]

why Albert Pujols didnt just hit that first pitch 500 feet, I do not know.

[jojo]

Only the second inning and already 45 pitches and counting for Homer......

I think it's a little more than umps consistently squeezing Homer.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pujols walks. 1st and 2nd.

[Falls City Beer]

Only the second inning and already 45 pitches and counting for Homer......

I think it's a little more than umps consistently squeezing Homer.

Thank you.

Good lord. Blame everything else but the person doing what he always does.

[Matt700wlw]

Homer's ready for the majors? Undoubtedly he's being told to slow his pitches down to get 'em over the plate. What a joke.

Tigers of a few years ago...the kids got rocked as the team stunk it up...now look at them.

[OnBaseMachine]

He's awfully easy to hit for a guy throwing 95-95 routinely.

I don't for one second believe the gun at the stadium.

I don't believe the scoreboard at the stadium either because it's showing the Cardinals have scored three runs. Everyone knows that Cardinals can't score that many runs in a week, let alone one game. :eek:

[dougdirt]

He's awfully easy to hit for a guy throwing 95-95 routinely.

I don't for one second believe the gun at the stadium.

When you have to throw it dead red middle of the plate to get a strike call it makes it a lot easier to hit than if you throw it on the corners, but he can't do that becuase he won't get those calls and the batters know they don't have to swing at it.

[flyer85]

Bennett doubles off the wall in left just above Dunn's glove. 2nd and 3rd.I'm sure if he hustled he would have caught it. :rolleyes:

[jojo]

I don't care if Homer throws 106 mph....his inability to command even his fastball so far is shocking.....

[flyer85]

He's awfully easy to hit for a guy throwing 95-95 routinely.

I don't for one second believe the gun at the stadium.fastballs belt high and down the middle get hit no matter how hard they are thrown

[Aronchis]

I don't care if Homer throws 106 mph....his inability to command even his fastball so far is shocking.....

I disagree. He is getting squeezed and can't trust his other stuff to throw strikes. Simply as that. He was rushed, we all knew it, why fuss over it?

[Reds Fanatic]

Duncan strikes out swinging on a 91 MPH pitch. 3-2 Cards mid 2nd.

[flyer85]

I don't care if Homer throws 106 mph....his inability to command even his fastball so far is shocking.....
just turned 21, not many pitchers that age have a lot of success. His AAA DOM rate showed he isn't ready.

[Reds Fanatic]

57 pitches for Bailey (31 strikes, 26 balls)

[pedro]

I think Bailey should be at AAA.

[jojo]

Were Maroth, Bonderman, Verlaner ready a few years ago in Detroit when they got their heads absolutely pounded in when the Tigers were losing 100 games a season?

I don't know....but they turned out (Maroth maybe not as much, who obviously has since been traded) to be some big league pitchers...

I've said this before but Verlander of '06 and Bonderman of '03 were considerably better pitchers then than Homer currently is showing. Maroth was never good. He's a tee.

I's simply a lousy comp to evoke the Tigers arms-pitchability is a dramatically different thing than command issues.

[flyer85]

I think Bailey should be at AAA.unfortanately you don't get a vote. :D

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion flies out to center. 1 out.

[dougdirt]

has anyone seen Homer throw a change up today?

[pedro]

unfortanately you don't get a vote. :D

I think he's doing a pretty good job of voting himself off the island right now. Hopefully that'll count for something.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

[Matt700wlw]

has anyone seen Homer throw a change up today?

I think he's thrown a couple...maybe.

[jojo]

I disagree. He is getting squeezed and can't trust his other stuff to throw strikes. Simply as that. He was rushed, we all knew it, why fuss over it?

As I pointed out in other recent threads, it's an issue of how best to maximize Homer's development. I don't see how running him out there to predominantly throw fastballs does him or the Reds any good.

This isn't a dig on Homer because I think he's all that. Clearly he's got a live arm and the best stuff on the staff. The question now is how best to get him to his ceiling the fastest. It's really early for Homer but what I've seen so far doesn't strike me as an enlightened approach.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ross pops out to 3rd. 3-2 Cards after 2.

[flyer85]

I think he's doing a pretty good job of voting himself off the island right now. there seem to be a number of guys that voted themself off a long time ago... but they are still there.

[Reds Fanatic]

has anyone seen Homer throw a change up today?I think he threw one on the ball Pujols hit the sac fly on in the 1st but it has been mainly fastballs today.

[pedro]

there seem to be a number of guys that voted themself off a long time ago... but they are still there.

Yeah, but there's no reason to try an aid those guys development by not rushing them. Bailey on the other hand is a valuable commodity.

[Cyclone792]

I think Bailey should be at AAA.

Part of me thinks if Bailey keeps this up then he'll end up back in AAA sooner rather than later. He's already walked 16 guys in 21.2 innings this season (6.65 BB/9), and he's only faced 101 batters altogether (PA/BB of 6.31). If Bailey would throw 200 innings in a season, his current walk rate would mean he'd be walking around 140 batters per season.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen flies out to right. 1 out.

[flyer85]

Yeah, but there's no reason to try an aid those guys development by not rushing them. Bailey on the other hand is a valuable commodity.not arguing the point. I would say that "schizophrenic" is the only way to describe the management of this team.

[Matt700wlw]

That was a decent change up

[Stormy]

I don't care if Homer throws 106 mph....his inability to command even his fastball so far is shocking.....

I kind of disagree about the 'shocking' part, even though you and I have had identical takes on Homer's handling throughout the process. You take a 21 year old with an A+ velocity arm, who has some command issues, has not nearly had time to hone his secondary pitches, and who has been rushed through the system at a pretty aggressive pace.

At the MLB level, he finds that his secondary pitches aren't refined enough to locate (and that hitters at this level don't fish for them out of the zone); likewise, he finds that opposing batters can hit his fastball when they are sitting on it 'dead-red' about 75-80% of the time. I think that all conspires to even exacerbate his already volatile control issues, as he reaches back to find a little extra on his fastball since it's his only 'plus' pitch at the moment, and the one he is relying upon an inordinate amount of the time.

Bailey can definitely be a great one, but I'm not at all convinced that this is the best formula for developing him... and never will be.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick with a long homer off the batter's eye in center. 4-2 Cards.

[Matt700wlw]

That thing went a long way

[flyer85]

ludwick us the kind of reserve OF you need if you are to be a good team.

[flyer85]

Homer is all over the place with his fastball.

[Reds Fanatic]

Kennedy grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

[OnBaseMachine]

How come Bailey is allowed to call his own pitches? Fastball after fastball is never going to work. Someone needs to be calling his pitches until he is established. He will never have consistent command of his curveball and changeup if he is only throwing fastballs.

[Stormy]

As I pointed out in other recent threads, it's an issue of how best to maximize Homer's development. I don't see how running him out there to predominantly throw fastballs does him or the Reds any good.

This isn't a dig on Homer because I think he's all that. Clearly he's got a live arm and the best stuff on the staff. The question now is how best to get him to his ceiling the fastest. It's really early for Homer but what I've seen so far doesn't strike me as an enlightened approach.

Bingo. I could have saved myself the typing. ;)

[pedro]

Part of me thinks if Bailey keeps this up then he'll end up back in AAA sooner rather than later. He's already walked 16 guys in 21.2 innings this season (6.65 BB/9), and he's only faced 101 batters altogether (PA/BB of 6.31). If Bailey would throw 200 innings in a season, his current walk rate would mean he'd be walking around 140 batters per season.

I hope so. I do think giving him some starts up here to let him get an idea of what he's in store for isn't such a bad idea and could have some long term benefits as long as they don;t keep him up here if he contnues to struggle.

[flyer85]

BTW, I would PH for Homer in the bottom of the inning. There is absolutely no reason to push it with him on this day.

[Reds Fanatic]

4 pitch walk to Bennett. 3 walks for Bailey today.

[jojo]

I kind of disagree about the 'shocking' part, even though you and I have had identical takes on Homer's handling throughout the process. You take a 21 year old with an A+ velocity arm, who has some command issues, has not nearly had time to hone his secondary pitches, and who has been rushed through the system at a pretty aggressive pace.

At the MLB level, he finds that his secondary pitches aren't refined enough to locate (and that hitters at this level don't fish for them out of the zone); likewise, he finds that opposing batters can hit his fastball when they are sitting on it 'dead-red' about 75-80% of the time. I think that all conspires to even exacerbate his already volatile control issues, as he reaches back to find a little extra on his fastball since it's his only 'plus' pitch at the moment, and the one he is relying upon an inordinate amount of the time.

Bailey can definitely be a great one, but I'm not at all convinced that this is the best formula for developing him... and never will be.

Ya. It's frustrating to watch.

[OnBaseMachine]

Three straight strikes were called balls. Major league umpires suck. I look forward to the day questec is installed permanently.

[Reds Fanatic]

Maroth grounds to Gonzalez who tags the runner going to 2nd. 4-2 Cards mid 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

76 pitches (39 strikes, 37 balls) for Bailey.

[BCubb2003]

I'll think he'll develop better up here than if he'd continued to be the big dog down in AAA, where it was too easy for him. The major league hitters will give him the message that he really does need to work on some things.

[jojo]

Thru three and Homer's pitch count is at 76. He's facing his third trip through the lineup so it should be interesting to see all the adjustments on both sides. Five innings seems like his upside today.

[Kc61]

BTW, I would PH for Homer in the bottom of the inning. There is absolutely no reason to push it with him on this day.

I am glad Narron is leaving Homer in. Last time he was pulled early. The guy is a pitcher; the way for him to get better is to pitch. You can argue this is the wrong level, but he is here. Let him pitch another inning or two. If he settles down, it will give him some renewed confidence. If not, he can be lifted then.

[Matt700wlw]

Look at that! Bailey's first career hit!

[Big Klu]

Nice at bat by Homer!

[Reds Fanatic]

Bailey singles to right. His 1st Major League hit.

[Cyclone792]

I will say this about Bailey though ... now that Milton's gone, Bailey looks like he's probably going to be the best hitting pitcher on the Reds staff for quite awhile.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hopper reaches on a bunt single. 1st and 2nd.

[BCubb2003]

We need Homer's bat in the lineup.

[flyer85]

usually an out, Cowboy

[Matt700wlw]

We need Homer's bat in the lineup.

Convert him to an outfielder :D

[Matt700wlw]

Now they're bunt happy...

[Tom Servo]

usually an out, Cowboy
But an EXCITING out.

[flyer85]

That was stupid Brandon

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips attempts a sacrifice and grounds into a 1-5 fielder's choice. 1st and 2nd with 1 out.

[Matt700wlw]

Hopefully Narron didn't ask Brandon to do that......

[Big Klu]

I know that "Beat Up Norris Hopper" is a popular game to play on RedsZone, but he does some things that I really like! :thumbup:

I don't see him as a regular OF--he's a 4th or 5th OF. But he brings some nice things to the table!

[Matt700wlw]

I know that "Beat Up Norris Hopper" is a popular game to play on RedsZone, but he does some things that I really like! :thumbup:

I don't see him as a regular OF--he's a 4th or 5th OF. But he brings some nice things to the table!

I agree.

[Matt700wlw]

:griffey:

:jump:

[Tom Servo]

God, I love Junior.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior homers to center!! #585! 5-4 Reds!

[flyer85]

I don't see him as a regular OF--he's a 4th or 5th OF. But he brings some nice things to the table!with that sub 700 OPS he is a 5th OF on his best day.

[Big Klu]

Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Adam Dunn - 221
7. Eric Davis - 203
8. Barry Larkin - 198
9. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 187
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

[Reds Fanatic]

Conine grounds out to 3rd. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn strikes out swinging. 5-4 Reds after 3.

[OnBaseMachine]

Mike Maroth is terrible. He'll fit right in with the Cardinals staff. The Cardinals are lucky Pedro Martinez got hurt last year because it will be a long, long time before they sniff a world series again.

[Matt700wlw]

Breaking News: Mike Hargrove has resigned as Mariners manager.

There's a thread in the other room

[Reds Fanatic]

Breaking News: Mike Hargrove has resigned as Mariners manager.

There's a thread in the other room

That is very surprising. The Mariners have a 44-33 record.

[Big Klu]

with that sub 700 OPS he is a 5th OF on his best day.

I see him as a Jacob Brumfield or righty-hitting Herm Winningham-type of player, which isn't a bad thing. Is he limited? Sure, but if he is used in the right role, then he can be an asset to the club.

It would help things if the Reds had more players on the bench, though. A five-man bench is way too limiting.

[Reds Fanatic]

Taguchi flies out to center. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Miles grounds out to 2nd. Great play by Phillips. 2 outs.

[BCubb2003]

Breaking News: Mike Hargrove has resigned as Mariners manager.

There's a thread in the other room

Resigned or re-signed? What a difference a hyphen makes.

[Matt700wlw]

Resigned or re-signed? What a difference a hyphen makes.

Sorry...resigned...quit.

[Big Klu]

Breaking News: Mike Hargrove has resigned as Mariners manager.

There's a thread in the other room

Wow I thought that Grover was doing a nice job! I always liked the fire and leadership he brought to the dugout. (I live in Indians territory, so I saw quite a bit of him with the Tribe.)

[Reds Fanatic]

Pujols walks.

[OnBaseMachine]

3-1 fastball right down the middle called a ball on Pujols.

[KronoRed]

We need Homer's bat in the lineup.
Get him out in CF

[BCubb2003]

Sorry...resigned...quit.

I'm just being a pest.

[Matt700wlw]

I'm just being a pest.

Ok :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Duncan walks. 1st and 2nd. 5 walks by Bailey.

[flyer85]

has Ross ever really tried to block the plate in his career?

[KronoRed]

I'm just being a pest.

http://www.maniacworld.com/giant-bug-vs-ants.jpg

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen singles to left. The throw home gets away. Tie game 5-5. Runners on 2nd and 3rd.

[Matt700wlw]

Man, Bailey was cruising through the inning....now his day is over.

Welcome to the big leagues - not as easy as AAA :)

[Big Klu]

That should be another error. (I would guess an E7.)

[Reds Fanatic]

Ricky Stone in to pitch. Bailey exits at 92 pitches.

[Big Klu]

http://www.maniacworld.com/giant-bug-vs-ants.jpg

Dang! Time to call the Orkin man! :D

[flyer85]

That should be another error. (I would guess an E7.)runners were advancing on the throw(you could see it in the background.

I wish for a catcher like Scioscia that would sit on the plate whether he had the ball or not.

[flyer85]

If Ricky Stone is the answer it is hard to imagine the question.

I typed that just before he hit the HR.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ludwick with his 2nd homer of the day. 8-5 Cards.

[CTA513]

Ricky Stone deserves to be in the majors.

[Matt700wlw]

There's the Ricky Stone we all know and love...

[NJReds]

Man this team is depressing. They may be worse than the 82 team.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ricky Stone is a AAA pitcher. He looks great in AAA and throws batting practice everytime he gets up here.

[Matt700wlw]

7 ERs for Bailey.

Yikes....his ERA is really bad




Well, that's part of the growing process. Hang with 'em, kid

[CTA513]

Baileys final line: 3.2 Innings, 7 Hits, 7 Runs, 5 BB, 2 K

[OnBaseMachine]

The Cardinals have scored a whole months work of runs today for them.

[flyer85]

Reds reserve OF has 2 infield hits, Cards reserve OF has 2 HRs.

[Stormy]

If Ricky Stone is the answer it is hard to imagine the question.

I typed that just before he hit the HR.

Agreed. Removing the pitcher who doesn't belong here *yet*, in favor of the guy who never will. Yikes, what a mess.

[flyer85]

Ricky Stone is a AAA pitcher. He looks great in AAA and throws batting practice everytime he gets up here.... and it has always been that way.

[Reds Fanatic]

Kennedy strikes out looking. 8-5 Reds mid 4th.

[NJReds]

Reds reserve OF has 2 infield hits, Cards reserve OF has 2 HRs.

Where's Gary Redus when you need him?

[KronoRed]

A big loss and I can see Narron canning tomorrow

[Big Klu]

There's the Ricky Stone we all know and love...

Everybody must get Stoned!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d9/Music_blonde_on_blonde.jpg/200px-Music_blonde_on_blonde.jpg

[Stormy]

Baileys final line: 3.2 Innings, 7 Hits, 7 Runs, 5 BB, 2 K

Aside from some early zip on his fastball, he didn't show much of anything today. Still, he deserved to fare a little better than that line would indicate. Nonetheless, a lesson to Homer that wildness within the zone, an unrefined repetoire of pitches and numerous walks, will simply get you destroyed at this level. Hopefully he'll go back to AAA soon to begin the process of going to work on the many weaknesses in his game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion singles to right.

[Matt700wlw]

Everybody must get Stoned!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d9/Music_blonde_on_blonde.jpg/200px-Music_blonde_on_blonde.jpg

I should start up again...I may feel better while watching this team :D

[Big Klu]

runners were advancing on the throw(you could see it in the background.

I wish for a catcher like Scioscia that would sit on the plate whether he had the ball or not.

From what I saw, the runner on second advanced to third on the throw, but the runner on first didn't advance until after the throw got by the plate. That should be an error.

[Kc61]

Reds reserve OF has 2 infield hits, Cards reserve OF has 2 HRs.

Yeah, that reserve outfield is killing us. Hard to blame Hopper. He has two singles so far.

Feel bad for Stone. The ball went into the first or second row, not exactly a clout. You really have to have great stuff to succeed in this ballpark.

We're going to have to be patient with Bailey. Reds just need to keep babying that arm. Not too much wear and tear. Glad he was taken out there.

[WVRedsFan]

It's purely a shame to put Homer through this. Until he develops his pitches more, he'll never be successful at the MLB level and it's not the kid's fault. He was rushed in (much to the delight of a lot of folks) as the savior. That's a lot of pressure on a young man.

Send him down and let the losing continue.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion goes to 2nd on a throwing error by Maroth on the pickoff attempt.

Actually the errror is on Pujols.

[flyer85]

From what I saw, the runner on second advanced to third on the throw, but the runner on first didn't advance until after the throw got by the plate. That should be an error.then the error should be on Ross, the ball got there on the fly the only reason he missed it(glanced off his glove) was he wanted no part of any contact with Pujols

[Falls City Beer]

Yeah, that reserve outfield is killing us. I blame Hopper. He only has two singles so far.

Feel bad for Stone. The ball went into the first or second row, not exactly a clout. You really have to have great stuff to succeed in this ballpark.

We're going to have to be patient with Bailey. Reds just need to keep babying that arm. Not too much wear and tear. Glad he was taken out there.

A home run in any park in the majors is a hard-hit ball--I don't care if the wind is blowing 50 miles an hour--out to the outfield. If you surrender a home run, you've not surrendered a bloop.

[NJReds]

Encarnacion goes to 2nd on a throwing error by Maroth on the pickoff attempt.

Actually the errror is on Pujols.

7 errors this year for Pujols. That seems like a lot for a 1st baseman.

[Big Klu]

George's Gold-Glove 1B commits his seventh error of the season.

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez walks. 1st and 2nd.

[NJReds]

Good AB by Gonzalez.

[flyer85]

Stone in one of those AAAA pitchers who despite what Cowboy says(all betwen the ears) just doesn't have the stuff to get major league hitters out. There is a reason he retired after the 2005 season.

It is amazing the way WK can collect below replacement level talent on one roster.

[Big Klu]

then the error should be on Ross, the ball got there on the fly the only reason he missed it(glanced off his glove) was he wanted no part of any contact with Pujols

OK then, the error should be on Ross. (I thought the ball bounced before it got to the plate, which usually puts the error on the outfielder. But I must have been wrong.)

But one way or another, there should be an error charged for allowing the runner on first to take second.

[Reds Fanatic]

Stone in one of those AAAA pitchers who despite what Cowboy says(all betwen the ears) just doesn't have the stuff to get major league hitters out. There is a reason he retired after the 2005 season.

It is amazing the way WK can collect below replacement level talent on one roster.
What is really sad is this team continues to be fooled into thinking Stone is a major league pitcher.

[Reds Fanatic]

Troy Percival in to pitch.

[flyer85]

George's Gold-Glove 1B commits his seventh error of the season.just shows there is generally a lot of wood in the golden glove.

[NJReds]

OK then, the error should be on Ross. (I thought the ball bounced before it got to the plate, which usually puts the error on the outfielder. But I must have been wrong.)

But one way or another, there should be an error charged for allowing the runner on first to take second.

I thought he took second on the throw. Not that it mattered, because Stone gave up a gopher ball.

[letsgojunior]

Ahh, I see we're embroiled in yet another pitchers' duel.

[Matt700wlw]

What is really sad is this team continues to be fooled into thinking Stone is a major league pitcher.

Titanic chair reshuffling, or as someone else said, the wiping down of them with a damp towel.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ross fouls out to 3rd. 1 out.

[flyer85]

each team has a pitcher returned from retirement.

Reds have Stone and the Cards have Percival.

[flyer85]

BTW, Cowboy, that would be physically, not metaphysically

[Stormy]

A home run in any park in the majors is a hard-hit ball--I don't care if the wind is blowing 50 miles an hour--out to the outfield. If you surrender a home run, you've not surrendered a bloop.

I agree. It was actually a very hard drive, it was hit opposite field, and it was hammered by a guy who has no business driving a ball out to RCF.

[Matt700wlw]

BTW, Cowboy, that would be physically, not metaphysically

What'd he say?

[Big Klu]

I thought he took second on the throw. Not that it mattered, because Stone gave up a gopher ball.

I thought he didn't take second until the throw got by Ross. But you're right--it doesn't really matter.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin pinch hits and strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[NJReds]

Percival looks great.

[CTA513]

Valentin might have been thrown 1 strike that at bat.

[Big Klu]

BTW, Cowboy, that would be physically, not metaphysically

Zen And The Art Of The Pitch, by Hayden "Sidd" Finch

[flyer85]

still talking about EG solving the pen problem.

The delusion has infested from top to bottom

[Reds Fanatic]

Hopper grounds out to 1st and the Reds blow a good scoring chance. 8-5 Cards after 4.

[Reds Fanatic]

Brad Salmon in to pitch.

[flyer85]

when ever you see a middle aged man with a pair of binoculars at the park is there any doubt what he is actually ogling?

[Reds Fanatic]

Bennett flies out to center. 1 out.

[Big Klu]

Hey Matt, you might want to change the date in the thread title. I just noticed that the year is wrong!

:thisyear:

[Matt700wlw]

Hey Matt, you might want to change the date in the thread title. I just noticed that the year is wrong!

:thisyear:

2004 was better than 2007 :p:

[Reds Fanatic]

Percival strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[letsgojunior]

Hey Matt, you might want to change the date in the thread title. I just noticed that the year is wrong!

:thisyear:

I'd call that harmless error though, seeing how the Reds have been consistently bad since 2000.;)

[Big Klu]

Hopper grounds out to 1st and the Reds blow a good scoring chance. 8-5 Cards after 4.

I would have considered using Hamilton to PH for Hopper. I like Norris, but his splits vs. LHP/RHP are somewhat alarming.

[flyer85]

What is it with the Cowboy lovefest with Ross today?

[Reds Fanatic]

Taguchi strikes out swinging. Good inning for Salmon. 8-5 Cards mid 5th.

[OnBaseMachine]

Brad Salmon continues to impress.

[Big Klu]

What is it with the Cowboy lovefest with Ross today?

Cowboy was a pitcher. Pitchers and catchers have a symbiotic relationship.

[Falls City Beer]

By the way, Bailey needs to be driven to Louisville later on this afternoon.

And then a new pitching coach needs to be hired especially for Bailey to work with him at AAA.

Further, when coaching, or promoting him again, mention of his results (ERA, Ks, BBs) shouldn't figure in the discussion. Rather, a threshold of strikes thrown should be established, under which he remains in AAA; over which and for a good duration, he can be re-promoted.

[Stormy]

Brad Salmon continues to impress.

Easily the best young arm in the bullpen, in my opinion. I'd like to see better location on his slider, but hopefully that will come with time (as he's leaving them hanging in bad spots). Let's hope the next time he walks a few batters he isn't sent back down in favor of some veteran dross, as in the past.

[Tom Servo]

Hey Matt, you might want to change the date in the thread title. I just noticed that the year is wrong!

:thisyear:
The years change but the result remains the same.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips leads off with a walk.

[Matt700wlw]

By the way, Bailey needs to be driven to Louisville later on this afternoon.

And then a new pitching coach needs to be hired especially for Bailey to work with him at AAA.

Further, when coaching, or promoting him again, mention of his results (ERA, Ks, BBs) shouldn't figure in the discussion. Rather, a threshold of strikes thrown should be established, under which he remains in AAA; over which and for a good duration, he can be re-promoted.

-Bailey has a car ;)

-I would hire Soto to be his personal coach, whichever level he is at

-I wouldn't send him back yet....I'd give him more time to adjust. If he continues to get rocked, say, 2 or 3 more times in a row, then we'll talk. Either way, him getting a taste of the majors isn't a bad thing for him.

[Big Klu]

Man this team is depressing. They may be worse than the 82 team.

The 1982 club was bad in a different way than this team. Other than the black hole that was the fifth starter (Tom Seaver, Charlie Leibrandt, Greg Harris), the '82 Reds pitching was decent. Three starters (Mario Soto, Bruce Berenyi, and Bob Shirley) had ERA's under league average (3.72), and the fourth starter's ERA was under 4.00 (Frank Pastore - 3.97). The worst ERA in the bullpen (not including Leibrandt, Harris, or late callup Joe Edelen) was Tom Hume's 3.11 mark.

However, the '82 Reds were as offensively challenged as any club I have ever seen. They had very few good hitters, and the few they had were miscast offensively. 1B Dan Driessen was the only solid middle-of-the-order hitter they had, and even he was miscast as a cleanup hitter. He would have been better as a #3 or #5-6 hitter. SS Dave Concepcion had a good season, was in the late prime of his career, and was universally recognized as the best SS in the NL, but he was no #3 hitter. He would have been a nice #2 hitter, though. 2B Ron Oester was a solid contact hitter who was serviceable as a #2, but would have probably been better as a #7 hitter (as we saw later in his career). CF Cesar Cedeño was better than I expected him to be, but he was not a #4-5 hitter, either. He was more of a #6. And sadly, Johnny Bench was a shell of his former self offensively, and a complete butcher at 3B. LF Eddie Milner was a young up-and-coming 80's-style leadoff hitter who I was optimistic about, but the combination of Paul Householder and Duane Walker in RF was disappointing to say the least, and the catching tandem of Alex Treviño and Dave Van Gorder was an offensive non-entity. The bench had very little depth--other than Larry Biittner, Wayne Krenchicki and maybe Mike Vail. The rest of the bench consisted of guys like Walker, Van Gorder, Rafael Landestoy, German Barranca, and Tom Lawless. Biittner (.369) and Krenchicki (.324) were the only players on the bench with a .300+ OBP, and Driessen (.421), Cedeño (.413), and Biittner (.413) were the only players on the team with a .400+ SLG.

[Falls City Beer]

-Bailey has a car ;)

-I would hire Soto to be his personal coach, whichever level he is at

-I wouldn't send him back yet....I'd give him more time to adjust. If he continues to get rocked, say, 2 or 3 more times in a row, then we'll talk.

He's got nothing. And there's no one who is capable of helping him here, obviously.

[Reds Fanatic]

Troy Cate in to pitch.

[Matt700wlw]

He's got nothing. And there's no one who is capable of helping him here, obviously.

That's where my second point would come into play.

[Stormy]

Further, when coaching, or promoting him again, mention of his results (ERA, Ks, BBs) shouldn't figure in the discussion. Rather, a threshold of strikes thrown should be established, under which he remains in AAA; over which and for a good duration, he can be re-promoted.

There also needs to be both empirical and statistical criteria determining that a proper percentage of those strikes are coming from established, *quality* secondary pitches.

Those minor league highlights of strikeouts coming on batters waving at curveballs in the dirt, and a 75-80% fastball repetoire, don't translate very well to this level.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior singles to the wall in right. 1st and 3rd.

[Tom Servo]

Junior is so much fun to watch this year.

[Reds Fanatic]

Conine sac. fly to the warning track in left. 8-6 Cards. 1 out.

[Stormy]

Junior is so much fun to watch this year.

Most enjoyable aspect of an otherwise lost season, for me. I've always loved Griff, and would love nothing more than for him to have a sustained late career renaissance akin to what we are currently witnessing.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn grounds into a 3-6 fielder's choice. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion strikes out looking. 8-6 Cards after 5.

[Reds Fanatic]

Miles pops out to 2nd. Good over the shoulder catch by Phillips. 1 out.

[Big Klu]

Nice catch by Phillips! Looked like a fade pattern from Carson Palmer to Chad Johnson!

[The_jbh]

Junior is so much fun to watch this year.

One of the last reasons I'm still checking box score...

[Reds Fanatic]

Pujols singles to center.

[Matt700wlw]

I hate the Cardinals.


Hate.

[Reds Fanatic]

Duncan with a long homer to right. 10-6 Cards.

[Stormy]

So much for my Salmon endorsement, that came on a fastball away... some serious extension to pull that ball.

[letsgojunior]

One of the last reasons I'm still checking box score...

The only reason I check the box score.

[OnBaseMachine]

Jerry Narron is a tool. Brad Salmon is a one inning guy. I've seen enough to know that, why can't Jerry?

[flyer85]

Brad Salmon continues to impress.NFL :help:

[Big Klu]

George just excitedly asked Cowboy if Barroid has a chance to get the record in Cincinnati. Jeff said "No." GG then said, "You aren't excited about it?" JB responded, "I'm going home. Got a toothache."

GG then asked him, "Do you think that when the record falls, it should be celebrated?" And Jeff said, "Yes, it should be celebrated--with a big, fat asterisk on the side of it."

[Matt700wlw]

George just excitedly asked Cowboy if Barroid has a chance to get the record in Cincinnati. Jeff said "No." GG then said, "You're aren't excited about it?" JB responded, "I'm going home. Got a toothache."

GG then asked him, "Dou you think that when the record falls, it should be celebrated?" And Jeff said, "Yes, it should be celebrated--with a big, fat asterisk on the side of it."

JB is the man.

[Reds Fanatic]

Rolen flies out to center. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Good catch by Hopper to end the inning. 10-6 Cards mid 6th.

[CTA513]

Jerry Narron is a tool. Brad Salmon is a one inning guy. I've seen enough to know that, why can't Jerry?

He will have to try and use guys for more than one inning because they have no long relief man.

[Tom Servo]

Chris Duncan and Luke Scott are the head of the new wave of Reds killers.

[Matt700wlw]

I have not given up. This one is still winnable.

:p:

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez strikes out swinging. 1 out.