Another Belisle horid performance

[UK Reds Fan]

I guess this puts another need to continue to fill out the pitching staff....Harang, Arroyo hopefully rebounds, Bailey is in there somewhere for next year and then 2 more spots.

As Belisle is putting on a Miltonesque type of year, I don't think we can hand him a spot next year.

[that_guy]

Strange how his worst performances correspond with games that Valentin has caught. He's not a great pitcher, but he's even worse when Javy is behind the plate (like most of the staff is). His ERA in starts with Javy is now 9.90, without Javy it's 4.74. It's a small sample size, but when a guy always gets shelled with a certain catcher, maybe it's time to not use that catcher with him. By my calculations he has a 3.78 ERA with Ross behind the plate.

Belisle has to develop consistency, but he's shown enough so far this season to make me think he might be a decent #5 in future years, so I'd like to see how he does as a starter for the remainder of the season. I'm not willing to give up on him yet as a Starting Pitcher, but I am willing to give up on Valentin as a starting Catcher.

[kaldaniels]

Cough*Cough*Cueto AA Pitcher of the Week*Cough*

[Carolina Red]

I also think the pitching staff is better with Ross behind the plate. I hope we see a few of the guys from down on the farm in the second half, too. At this point we are just playing for the #1 draft pick next year and to develop some young players.

[mound_patrol]

I think belisle would be a great 5 starter for us next year. I think he has showed he can be an effective starter. I think he may be going through some fatigue as this is his first full season as a starter. For the remainder of this year I continue to run him out there every 5th day. If it's possible to give him an extra days rest im all for it, but we need to keep giving him chances.

[Dunner44]

honestly, the one thing jerry did well was limit the number of starts valentin has had this year. I hope the new skipper doesn't try to platoon those two, it would be a disaster.

[spartcock77]

I agree that Belisle with more experience could be our 4 or 5 for us next year

[HokieRed]

Matt Belisle's WHIP has been very consistent over the last four years, some of that in AAA and some in Cinti. Right around 1.45-1.50. Very hard to see him as an effective starter with that kind of number, and there's really not much, statistically, to point to as improvement. I see him as an important part of our bullpen from here on out.

[Reds Freak]

Belisle seems like he has one bad that pitch that always does him in. Yesterday, for example, he gave up a bloop single to Klesko and a 25 foot dribbler single to Aurilia and made one bad pitch to Lewis. I also am reminded of the grand slam that Sammy hit off Belisle. Someone in the ORG made a good point that I hadn't thought of. Belisle has a great curve and uses it less and less each start. I can't remember him using it more than 5 times yesterday. He usually gets burned on that little cut fastball that hangs out over the plate at about 87 MPH. IMO, all the pitchers on this staff need to take notes every time Harang takes the mound and see how he mixes in all of his pitches effectively...

[eichstadtreds]

Belisle should be in the bullpen. He was effective last year in that role when his back was not bothering him. He should be the reds top setup man the rest of the year to see how he handles it.

[Screwball]

Belisle should be in the bullpen. He was effective last year in that role when his back was not bothering him. He should be the reds top setup man the rest of the year to see how he handles it.

Strange as it may be, Belisle's actually pitching better this year than he did last year out of the 'pen. You might look at the ERAs (5.28 this year, 3.60 last year) and ask how this can be, but a closer look at the numbers bears out my statement...

2006: 1.55 WHIP, 4.28 BB/9, 1.37 K/BB rate, LOB - 81%, FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) - 5.18
2007: 1.38 WHIP, 1.93 BB/9, 3.05 K/BB rate, LOB - 64%, FIP - 4.37

As you can see, he's walking far fewer batters and therefore has a greater percentage of strikeouts compared to walks. His WHIP is down as well. The main thing I see contributing to his (much) worse ERA this year is the fact that last year he was stranding an unsustainable 81% of runners on base. This year it's a more realistic 64%. Also, it seems as though the defense has been poor behind him (big shock there :rolleyes:), resulting in an ERA worse than how he's pitching.

All in all, Belisle is still just 27 and has a live arm. I think as he continues to grow as a pitcher, (and if the Reds ever get a decent defense) he could become a very serviceable #4 or #5 starter.

[eichstadtreds]

Strange as it may be, Belisle's actually pitching better this year than he did last year out of the 'pen. You might look at the ERAs (5.28 this year, 3.60 last year) and ask how this can be, but a closer look at the numbers bears out my statement...

2006: 1.55 WHIP, 4.28 BB/9, 1.37 K/BB rate, LOB - 81%, FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) - 5.18
2007: 1.38 WHIP, 1.93 BB/9, 3.05 K/BB rate, LOB - 64%, FIP - 4.37

As you can see, he's walking far fewer batters and therefore has a greater percentage of strikeouts compared to walks. His WHIP is down as well. The main thing I see contributing to his (much) worse ERA this year is the fact that last year he was stranding an unsustainable 81% of runners on base. This year it's a more realistic 64%. Also, it seems as though the defense has been poor behind him (big shock there :rolleyes:), resulting in an ERA worse than how he's pitching.

All in all, Belisle is still just 27 and has a live arm. I think as he continues to grow as a pitcher, (and if the Reds ever get a decent defense) he could become a very serviceable #4 or #5 starter.

I agree with almost everything you are saying. He had a bum back most of the year last which I BELIEVE had to do with his walk rate. I would put him in the pen based on the fact that you can find a servicable 5th starter( which i agree he could be) easier than a RELIABLE setup man in this day and age of baseball.

[Screwball]

I would put him in the pen based on the fact that you can find a servicable 5th starter( which i agree he could be) easier than a RELIABLE setup man in this day and age of baseball.


That's a good point, and I bet that you're right in saying his back problems probably led to his high walk rate.

But, while I'm all for adding a good arm to the bullpen to help it out, Belisle has really struggled this year in his first inning of work. He's given up 15 runs in 17 1st innings (couldn't find out how many were earned), and opponents have an outrageous .986 OPS against him in the 1st. He does much better in the 2nd inning (7 runs given up, .742 OPS against), so if he were to be placed in the 'pen, I hope it's as a long man vs. a setup guy as it seems to take him a few batters before he finds his release point/control.

It will be interesting to see how the Reds use Belisle in the future.