7-8-07 Rojolegos vs El Snakeos

[Matt700wlw]

Hatteberg 1b
Freel cf
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Harang p

[oneupper]

Hatteberg 1b
Freel cf
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Harang p

No me gusta mucho esa alineación. Se parece demasiado a los del Sr. Narron.

[LincolnparkRed]

I thought we might get Hopper after last nights heroics. Freel has a bad OBP for a leadoff hitter why would that mean he should ever bat second?

[VR]

After Aaron doesn't sniff the AS game, I hope he comes out with a 2 hit shutout and 12 k's today.

I also like seeing BP moving down a bit...he's got run producer written all over him.

[Matt700wlw]

After Aaron doesn't sniff the AS game, I hope he comes out with a 2 hit shutout and 12 k's today.

I also like seeing BP moving down a bit...he's got run producer written all over him.

The Anti-Dunn ;)

[oneupper]

Sorry, but BP in the cleanup spot still makes me cringe.

It's easy Mack...Dunn, Griffey or Griffey, Dunn. You put them together before (and it worked)...you can do it again.

Here's a possibility with these players:

Phillips
Dunn
Griffey
Encarnación
Hatteberg
Freel
Ross
Gonzalez

See..it's easy!

[Matt700wlw]

See..it's easy!

http://www.businessinnovationinsider.com/images/2006/03/easy_button_staples.jpg

[Wheelhouse]

I thought we might get Hopper after last nights heroics. Freel has a bad OBP for a leadoff hitter why would that mean he should ever bat second?

A contact hitter who can stay out of the double play or bunt a runner over.

[Big Klu]

Sorry, but BP in the cleanup spot still makes me cringe.

It's easy Mack...Dunn, Griffey or Griffey, Dunn. You put them together before (and it worked)...you can do it again.

Here's a possibility with these players:

Phillips
Dunn
Griffey
Encarnación
Hatteberg
Freel
Ross
Gonzalez

See..it's easy!

But then you will get some people around here who will freak out because Brandon Phillips is leading off.

I don't have a problem with your lineup; I also don't have a problem with Mack's lineup. Neither are exactly what I would do, but both are acceptable to me.

I would put together something like this:

Hatteberg 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Griffey rf
Dunn lf
Phillips 2b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Freel cf
Harang p

[oneupper]

But then you will get some people around here who will freak out because Brandon Phillips is leading off.

I don't have a problem with your lineup; I also don't have a problem with Mack's lineup. Neither are exactly what I would do, but both are acceptable to me.

I would put together something like this:

Hatteberg 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Griffey rf
Dunn lf
Phillips 2b
Gonzalez ss
Ross c
Freel cf
Harang p

That lineup is fine by me also. It's just after the limited "success" of "breaking up" the lefties, I'd like to see that lesson learned.

[Matt700wlw]

Harangatang having some early game issues...

[oneupper]

Harang gets out of a bases loaded one out jam.

[Matt700wlw]

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/65x90/5514.jpg

:jump:

[MrCinatit]

Scott Hatt - leading off the game in a very good way!

[KronoRed]

I thought we might get Hopper after last nights heroics. Freel has a bad OBP for a leadoff hitter why would that mean he should ever bat second?
They haven't caught on that he's not as good as he once was.

Give em a few years

[KronoRed]

Hat power :clap:

[Stormy]

Good rip by Hatte. I have no problem with him batting leadoff while Hamilton is out. When Hamilton returns, I favor a lineup akin to...

Hamilton
Phillips
Griffey
Dunn
Encarnacion
Hatte/Conine
Ross
Gonzalez

All of those slottings seem ideal to me, aside from Phillips less than ideal OBP in the #2 hole. Hopefully we'll see some big moves in the near future, and will have some different names to pencil into that lineup at a few key positions. Gonzo's been a real waste of space for some time now, one whom I wouldn't mind seeing exit stage left soon.

[Matt700wlw]

#19 for Phillips

[Tony Cloninger]

Krono....you have to let me know...do you really think Hopper is the new Reggie Taylor?

I don't know why a majority of people have such a problem with a good contact hitter...who can hit well coming off the bench....and can run and play defense.
Just beacuse he does not have power? Or does not walk a lot?
Is it beacuse Marty pumps him up over Dunn or the fear that a manager will over play him.

EE sometimes wastes AB's like he thinks he is Reggie Taylor.

[KronoRed]

Krono....you have to let me know...do you really think Hopper is the new Reggie Taylor?

I don't know why a majority of people have such a problem with a good contact hitter...who can hit well coming off the bench....and can run and play defense.
Just beacuse he does not have power? Or does not walk a lot?
Is it beacuse Marty pumps him up over Dunn or the fear that a manager will over play him.

EE sometimes wastes AB's like he thinks he is Reggie Taylor.
It's because people kept saying we could deal Dunn now because Hopper was here, which struck me as familiar because people said the same about Taylor vs Dunn in 2002-2003

Don't mind him on the bench.

:)

[letsgojunior]

Good afternoon threadies.:wave:

[Tony Cloninger]

I have heard the HOPPER THING....never heard the Taylor thing....either way no right thinking baseball person can say that and actually know what they are talking about.

Would Ed Armbrister have been a good replacement for the lazy and refusing to dive for balls George Foster? I remember GF was called out for the latter a lot.

[Matt700wlw]

:jump:

[Matt700wlw]

I like Scott Hatteberg

[corkedbat]

I know we need to move Hatteburg and make room for the future in Votto, but he will be missed. I enjoy watching him hit. I sure hope they can work a strong return for him.

[Big Klu]

Scott Hatteberg's hitting style reminds me of Pete Rose's left-handed swing.

Please don't misunderstand me--I'm not saying that Hatte is as good as Pete. We all know that isn't the case. But there is something about Scott's approach that reminds me of Pete.

[Eric_Davis]

We have a good catcher in Ross. Any offense is a bonus. He calls a good game and works well with pitchers, which I'd rather have than a guy like Piazza, even in Piazza's prime.

Which makes me wonder why we drafted a high-school catcher, who's only experience calling games is for a pitching staff of a Puxtatawny High School. That has to have absolutely no value in judging his ability to call games. He must be a heck of a hitter. As he learns to call games through the minor league system (don't expect it to take less than 5 years), the best we can hope for is that he becomes an average catcher as far as calling games is concerned. For this reason, I'd never draft a high school catcher in the first round, unless of course his name was Johnny Bench! ;)

[KronoRed]

I know we need to move Hatteburg and make room for the future in Votto, but he will be missed. I enjoy watching him hit. I sure hope they can work a strong return for him.

I'd almost like to keep him and put him back at cather in place of Val, but I guess he's unable to do it anymore..but then..can Val even pretend to be a catcher? ;)

[Eric_Davis]

I'd almost like to keep him and put him back at cather in place of Val, but I guess he's unable to do it anymore..but then..can Val even pretend to be a catcher? ;) This Valetin thing has to come to an end. I can't even see another team wanting him at this point of his career. Most teams want their backup catcher to be able to call games well more than a little bit of offense....and you don't have to pay for the defense like you do the offense because it's harder to measure.

[Patrick Bateman]

We have a good catcher in Ross. Any offense is a bonus. He calls a good game and works well with pitchers, which I'd rather have than a guy like Piazza, even in Piazza's prime.

Which makes me wonder why we drafted a high-school catcher, who's only experience calling games is for a pitching staff of a Puxtatawny High School. That has to have absolutely no value in judging his ability to call games. He must be a heck of a hitter. As he learns to call games through the minor league system (don't expect it to take less than 5 years), the best we can hope for is that he becomes an average catcher as far as calling games is concerned. For this reason, I'd never draft a high school catcher in the first round, unless of course his name was Johnny Bench! ;)

I'm sorry, but no amount of game calling ability is going to make up more the 300 or so OPS point gap.

I do agree though that Ross' defense has helped stomach his disgusting display at the plate.

[wolfboy]

Here's my annual contribution to a game thread, and it doesn't have a whole lot to do with the game.

Did anyone catch the pre-game coverage with the "highlights" from the first half? I may have figured out what happened to this team in the 1st half. Yes, you heard it right. I've identified the problem with this team, and I know how to solve it.

Set aside a terrible bullpen, inconsistent offense, bad starting pitching outside of Harang, etc.. etc... and it boils down to this: Mark Mallory has cursed this team with his awful opening day first pitch. I'd forgotten all about it until I saw the "1st half highlights" montage. That pitch was so frighteningly bad, it must have pissed off the Baseball Gods. Call it the Curse of Mallory.

The way I see it, there are three possible solutions. 1) Mallory goes back out there and gets it right, thereby appeasing the Baseball Gods. I don't think this is likely (that pitch was all kinds of terrible), so we move to 2) We sacrifice a goat on the field. The down side of this is that the Cubs might actually make the world series. Again, that's not likely, but I'd rather we were cursed, so we move to 3) We sacrifice Mallory on the field, thereby appeasing the Baseball Gods. (As a disclaimer, I should point out that this is merely an attempt at humor, and in no way do I advocate or condone violence against any public official. I hope Mr. Mallory and his body guard will appreciate the humor, as I appreciated the humor in his opening day first pitch)

If we manage to break the curse, we're bound to win every series in the second half of the season. By my math (which barely earned me a C through school), we should end the season at .500.

[NJReds]

That was a sweet DP turn by Gonzalez and Phillips. Very well done.

[NJReds]

Repeated again on the broadcast was the fact that the Reds had 6 roadtrips of 10 days or more this year...that seems extreme.

[Big Klu]

We have a good catcher in Ross. Any offense is a bonus. He calls a good game and works well with pitchers, which I'd rather have than a guy like Piazza, even in Piazza's prime.

Which makes me wonder why we drafted a high-school catcher, who's only experience calling games is for a pitching staff of a Puxtatawny High School. That has to have absolutely no value in judging his ability to call games. He must be a heck of a hitter. As he learns to call games through the minor league system (don't expect it to take less than 5 years), the best we can hope for is that he becomes an average catcher as far as calling games is concerned. For this reason, I'd never draft a high school catcher in the first round, unless of course his name was Johnny Bench! ;)

Most highly-regarded high school players are highly regarded because of their performance in American Legion ball in the summer, which is usually much tougher competition than high school ball in the spring. (This is not a knock on high school baseball--I used to coach at the high school level. But American Legion teams are basically high school all-star teams--Legion teams consist of the best players from several local high schools.)

[oneupper]

Most highly-regarded high school players are highly regarded because of their performance in American Legion ball in the summer, which is usually much tougher competition than high school ball in the spring. (This is not a knock on high school baseball--I used to coach at the high school level. But American Legion teams are basically high school all-star teams--Legion teams consist of the best players from several local high schools.)

Which begs the question: Did Mesoraco play American Legion ball? And how did he do?

[Big Klu]

Which begs the question: Did Mesoraco play American Legion ball? And how did he do?

I don't know the answer to that, but those are good questions.

[BCubb2003]

Which begs the question: Did Mesoraco play American Legion ball? And how did he do?

Yes, as a member of the Punxsutawney Chucks. I think his father coached American Legion ball.

http://www.indianagazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6050&Itemid=54

[Red in Chicago]

Bases loaded, no outs. Come on BP

[Stormy]

Another bonus to Hatte's great leadoff day so far, is how nice it feels to have the human roadblock on the basepaths in front of Freel, preventing him from running us out of the potential big inning. ;) Griff walks and hopefully BP or AD can deliver the knockout punch for Petit.

[Stormy]

#$@# BP hits into the GDP, scoring Hatteberg. 3-0 Reds

[NJReds]

In other baseball news, "Diamond" Dave Williams made his triumphant return to the majors (with the Mets) by giving up 3 runs in the first inning to the Astros.

[TeamBoone]

Looked to me like Phillips was slowing as he approached first. If he'd run full out, IMHO, he had a chance to beat the throw.

[oneupper]

#$@# BP hits into the GDP, scoring Hatteberg. 3-0 Reds

Which is why you should keep Dunn and Griff together.

Can't pitch around 'em like Petit did with Griff.

[NJReds]

Dunn K's looking. In fairness to Dunn, Harang hasn't been getting the calls on similar pitches down around the knees.

[CTA513]

Dunn K's looking. In fairness, though, Harang hasn't been getting the calls on pitches down around the knees.

Harang got that same pitch called a ball about 1 inning ago.

[Big Klu]

I noticed in the dugout when Hatteberg was receiving congratulations for scoring that Pedro Lopez is wearing #58. I thought that the Reds might have removed that number from circulation for the remainder of the season while the memorial for Vern Ruhle is in the bullpen.

[Eric_Davis]

Most highly-regarded high school players are highly regarded because of their performance in American Legion ball in the summer, which is usually much tougher competition than high school ball in the spring. (This is not a knock on high school baseball--I used to coach at the high school level. But American Legion teams are basically high school all-star teams--Legion teams consist of the best players from several local high schools.)

I agree with you 100%. That's where Bench shone so greatly, too. Curt Daniels from Vancouver, Wa won an American Legion World Series and appeared in a few others back in the late 80's through mid-90's. I saw several of his teams play and they were much better than any high-school team, even though Curt was also a High School coach. The level of competiton is just much tougher.

[NJReds]

Harang got that same pitch called a ball about 1 inning ago.

My point exactly. Harang hasn't been getting that call today.

Zito gave up 2 runs in the first inning today against St. Louis. 4.78 ERA...1.4 WHIP. That contract, 7 years, $125M, will sting the Giants for years to come.

[Red in Chicago]

Harang with a very efficient 6th inning. 84 pitches so far.

[Eric_Davis]

Yes, as a member of the Punxsutawney Chucks. I think his father coached American Legion ball.

http://www.indianagazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6050&Itemid=54

Really? That's a good thing to hear...that his father is an American Legion Coach.

[Eric_Davis]

I noticed in the dugout when Hatteberg was receiving congratulations for scoring that Pedro Lopez is wearing #58. I thought that the Reds might have removed that number from circulation for the remainder of the season while the memorial for Vern Ruhle is in the bullpen.

Who is Pedro Lopez?

[Big Klu]

I agree with you 100%. That's where Bench shone so greatly, too. Curt Daniels from Vancouver, Wa won an American Legion World Series and appeared in a few others back in the late 80's through mid-90's. I saw several of his teams play and they were much better than any high-school team, even though Curt was also a High School coach. The level of competiton is just much tougher.

We have a player on our local high school team who is the best high school player I have ever been around. He is being recruited by several universities, but it is mostly because he performs at a high level in Legion ball in the summer, rather than because he dominates high school ball in the spring. Recruiters and scouts show up for some of his high school games (usually against the toughest schools on the schedule), but there are a lot more of them in attendance for his Legion games in the summer.

[Big Klu]

Who is Pedro Lopez?

Pedro Lopez is an infielder that the Reds recalled from Louisville today. To make room for him, they optioned Homer Bailey back to the Bats.

[KronoRed]

Who is Pedro Lopez?

The Castro replacement

[Matt700wlw]

The Castro replacement

An automatic upgrade

[Big Klu]

In other baseball news, "Diamond" Dave Williams made his triumphant return to the majors (with the Mets) by giving up 3 runs in the first inning to the Astros.

That's our Dave!

[mbgrayson]

That is two innings where the Reds were all struck out.

[oneupper]

D-backs back in the game.

Young homers.

[Matt700wlw]

That ball left the yard quickly

[oneupper]

So..do you hit for Harang to lead off the 7th?

[Eric_Davis]

We have a player on our local high school team who is the best high school player I have ever been around. He is being recruited by several universities, but it is mostly because he performs at a high level in Legion ball in the summer, rather than because he dominates high school ball in the spring. Recruiters and scouts show up for some of his high school games (usually against the toughest schools on the schedule), but there are a lot more of them in attendance for his Legion games in the summer.

I'm watching Brenly yesterda manage. He was letting Molina call the pitches for most of the game, then in the bottom of the 13th with a runner on base, I saw him take over the pitch-calling.

At every level it's different. I see a lot of College Managers who won't let their catchers call games. Pat Casey, on the other hand, let Mitch Canham call all the games, obviously, in key situations though, Canham would look over for the calls, but it was mostly Canham.

With a Legion catcher working with new pitchers, even though they know them pretty well from watching them while they grew up together, do you think most Legion Managers let that catcher call the games? I know every game you should go over the lineup individually and decide ahead of time how you want to handle the batters. It's pretty easy to call a game if you are working with a great pitcher, but it's much more difficult if you are working with a marginal pitcher.

[Red in Chicago]

So..do you hit for Harang to lead off the 7th?

95 pitches so far. I think he goes out there for the 8th.

[Eric_Davis]

So..do you hit for Harang to lead off the 7th?
I wouldn't. He's pitching well.

[oneupper]

It looks hot. I'd give Harang a rest.

[TeamBoone]

Harang should be in the AS game. Even though he never ever complains, I'd think he must resent, at least a little, being dissed so much... AS game, Cy Young consideration.

[Matt700wlw]

Hatteberg is Red hot

[KronoRed]

It looks hot. I'd give Harang a rest.

94 out there

[Red in Chicago]

5 pages so far in the game thread. Mimics the small number of fannies in the seats as well.

[MrCinatit]

5 pages so far in the game thread. Mimics the small number of fannies in the seats as well.

Many of our top posters went home around the third inning for an extended all-star break.

[Big Klu]

Hatteberg is Red hot

Like I said earlier, there is something about Hatteberg's approach that reminds me of Pete Rose's lefty swing.

[Matt700wlw]

Stanton and Weathers warming in the bullpen

[VR]

Harang should be in the AS game. Even though he never ever complains, I'd think he must resent, at least a little, being dissed so much... AS game, Cy Young consideration.

Amen. Not glitzy enough I guess. Leading the league in wins last year, and most likely at the break this year...just doesn't do it. Neither does leading the NL in k's last year (3rd at the break this year), innings pitched last year and this year.

Pfft. That's what I say.

[Red in Chicago]

Harang with a very solid outing through 8 today. Turn it over to the pen and let's call it a night.

[Big Klu]

I have to ask...how is Aaron Harang not an All-Star?!

[Eric_Davis]

Great pitching today by Harang. Also great to see the coach not take him out there and let him try to get the last 2 outs himself.

Going to REDS' games has to be fun again. You can hope for and get a victory.

[oneupper]

Harang with a very solid outing through 8 today. Turn it over to the pen and let's call it a night.

Two out of three lefties coming up for Zona. Stanton or Weathers?

[MrCinatit]

I have to ask...how is Aaron Harang not an All-Star?!

Did Tony LaRussa chose the pitchers? That might be your answer.

[VR]

With Hatteberg's surge the last few weeks.....the Reds now have 4 batters OPSing over .900.
How does that happen?

[Matt700wlw]

Did Tony LaRussa chose the pitchers? That might be your answer.

What if Tony has is the manager for Harang next year?

[Big Klu]

Look for a double switch, with Hopper going to LF and hitting 9th, and the new pitcher hitting 5th.

I would consider going with Stanton vs. the lefties...I don't know. The Snakes have switch-hitting Tony Clark on the bench.

[Red in Chicago]

Two out of three lefties coming up for Zona. Stanton or Weathers?

I'm going to guess he goes with Weathers.

[Eric_Davis]

REDS have outscored their opponents 22-9 during the last 4 games, or an average of 5.5-2.25. Awesome.

[Big Klu]

What if Tony has is the manager for Harang next year?

He will suspend him for two weeks to start the season.

[Eric_Davis]

With Hatteberg's surge the last few weeks.....the Reds now have 4 batters OPSing over .900.
How does that happen?

That's some tremendous hitting.

[Big Klu]

Well, the cameraman is on top of it, but George can't be bothered to tell us that Hopper is in the game in LF. :angry:

[Matt700wlw]

Norris!

[Reds Fanatic]

Great catch by Hopper!

[Red in Chicago]

Nice catch by Hopper. Dunn doesn't make that catch.

[Reds Fanatic]

1 out away.

[Eric_Davis]

That's the best catch by an outfielder I've seen all year, because he knew he was going to be hurt. Hopper will pay for that one.

WOW!!!! Dunn wouldn't have gotten within 10 feet of that play.

[Reds Fanatic]

Montero doubles in a run. 3-2 Reds.

[Matt700wlw]

Rut Roh

[oneupper]

Not so fast...

[corkedbat]

nm

[Reds Fanatic]

Hudson singles to center. Tie game 3-3.

[Matt700wlw]

Well crud

[CTA513]

Harang pitches good and Weathers blows it.

[Red in Chicago]

Rut Roh

Stormy just doesn't have it today...sigh...

[MrCinatit]

Another good starting pitching outing turned into a no-decision. Sheesh.

[Matt700wlw]

Weathers 3rd blown save of the year....

He's been very good overall. Can't really get too upset with him...it happens.

[TeamBoone]

OMG! All with two outs. Harang sure didn't deserve this.

[Eric_Davis]

Harang pitches good and Weathers blows it. Bailey should have gotten the win, too. But the team ended up winning. Let's do it again.

[flyer85]

Stormy just doesn't have it today...sigh...Weathers is a decent middle reliever, he has pitched over his head the first half of the season ... a correction is likely coming.

[TeamBoone]

Well, the cameraman is on top of it, but George can't be bothered to tell us that Hopper is in the game in LF. :angry:

Sorry, but THIS TIME, he did tell us.

[Reds Fanatic]

Byrnes fouls out to Edwin to end the inning. 3-3 mid 9th.

Gonzalez, Ross and Hopper due up.

[corkedbat]

really sux for Aaron

[Big Klu]

Well, let's get some runs.

Gonzalez-Ross-Hopper in the ninth.

[danforsman]

Hudson's hit sure seemed to fall right of center...yet Freel was the first to get there. Where was our RF?

[Matt700wlw]

Keppinger will win it :D

[Big Klu]

Sorry, but THIS TIME, he did tell us.

Sorry, but NOT UNTIL Hopper actually made the catch.

But the cameraman showed us that Hopper was in the game at the beginning of the inning.

[Eric_Davis]

Due Up:


Gonzalez...........0 for 3 with 3 K
Ross.................1 for 3 with 2 K and 1 HR
Hopper..............0 for 0 coming off a game-winning hit from 2 days ago.

[oneupper]

Sorry, but Mack was really Narron-esque with this game.

From the lineup with Philips at cleanup, to letting Aaron hit in the 7th.

The offense didn't put the game away (I blame poor lineup construction) and now they've got to win it again.

It might not have turned out different. But when the status quo (Narron-ball) isn't doing it, you have change things up.

[dougdirt]

Are you freaking kidding me?

I turned the game off after 8 innings to try and get ready for later and this crap happens? :bang:

[Reds Fanatic]

Tony Pena in to pitch, Snyder in to catch.

[Matt700wlw]

Are you freaking kidding me?

I turned the game off after 8 innings to try and get ready for later and this crap happens? :bang:

later is now. Strap in, this baby may go all day

[Matt700wlw]

Now having Dunn out of the lineup looks bad....

[Reds Fanatic]

Gonzalez leads off with a single.

[Red in Chicago]

later is now. Strap in, this baby may go all day

I really don't have time for extra innings today:help:

[corkedbat]

yeah right, give'em an out

[flyer85]

Now having Dunn out of the lineup looks bad....with the quality of the Reds pen defensive subbing for Dunn is playing against the percentages.

[Big Klu]

Now having Dunn out of the lineup looks bad....

On the other hand, the Diamondbacks might still be batting, because Dunn doesn't catch that ball that Hopper caught.

[Matt700wlw]

On the other hand, the Diamondbacks might still be batting, because Dunn doesn't catch that ball that Hopper caught.

True. It can go either way.

[corkedbat]

they've got 15 mins to win, then I'm switching over to the futures game

[guttle11]

The funny thing is, with Stormy blowing the save, I wasn't even mad. Those happen. Bet it doesn't happen again for a while.

[Red in Chicago]

Now having Dunn out of the lineup looks bad....

But Dunn wouldn't have made the catch that Hopper made.;)

[Matt700wlw]

The hottest hitter in the universe now up

[Matt700wlw]

The funny thing is, with Stormy blowing the save, I wasn't even mad. Those happen. Bet it doesn't happen again for a while.

I'm with you. It's going to happen from time to time....it's when it becomes the norm I begin to get upset, and then I begin ripping people :D

[flyer85]

Bet it doesn't happen again for a while.Why?

[Matt700wlw]

So the gameth rolls forth

[Red in Chicago]

Anyone surprised that Weathers is still in there?

[oneupper]

Anyone surprised that Weathers is still in there?

Narron is managing.

[flyer85]

Anyone surprised that Weathers is still in there?not with the alternatives

[Big Klu]

Anyone surprised that Weathers is still in there?

I'm not.

[Matt700wlw]

Well, if needed, the Reds can extend their bullpen today by using starters.

[flyer85]

the bullpen still sucks and Pete is dealt the same hand Narron was. Simply roll the dice and hope for the best.

[Matt700wlw]

That had to feel good....at least he's moving his fingers, although gingerly

[MrCinatit]

Oh, that has to hurt a lot.

[Red in Chicago]

Well that was unfortunate. First and second now.

[Matt700wlw]

Stanton coming in

[flyer85]

Stanton coming inold man just off the DL pitched 2 innings yesterday and now is back today ... now that is Narronesque

[corkedbat]

I've been watching the Reds since the late-60s and the one thing you always seemed to be able to count on (up until the last few years) was a competent pen. I hate watching these guys.

[Eric_Davis]

Oh, that has to hurt a lot.

Welcome to the Majors Mr. Reynolds. Maybe should make his already poor defense at 3rd even worse.

[flyer85]

The Reds are just absurd

[Red in Chicago]

Big K there. Nice pitch by Stanton

[Eric_Davis]

Pirates sweep Cubs.

[VR]

old man just off the DL pitched 2 innings yesterday and now is back today ... now that is Narronesque


17 easy pitches with a fresh arm and a break coming. He's playing for the win.

[Red in Chicago]

Despite the 0 - 2 count, I'm fearful of this at bat by Young.

[Matt700wlw]

The ump is a Diamondbacks fan

[Big Klu]

Strike 4! :angry:

[flyer85]

He's playing for the win.which is the absurd part. There is no future in Stanton and Weathers. Pete should have been told that maximizing the number of wins is not his main priority but rather the priority should be trying to figure out what the Reds have(if anything) in all the young guys in the pen.

[Eric_Davis]

That 1-2 pitch looked like a strike...pitch #5.

[VR]

I got Griffey yacking a walk off. Anyone with me?

[Stormy]

I really like what I've seen from Pete philosophically so far, however, I'm wondering if we're starting to witness the catch-22 of 'interim' managers. I wonder if we're starting to see the 'do what it takes to win' mentality overtake the 'instructional and developmental' aspect of Pete's job.

You can't blame him for wanting to win everynight, wanting to impress, and wanting to earn the job long-term. Given some of the recent reliance on veterans (several multiple inning outings from Weathers, going to Stanton first and for multiple innings, Freel displacing Hamilton once and EdE twice from the starting lineup within 5 days, now I'm wondering if lifting Bailey (which I liked at the time) was a developmental decision, or a move to get the game safely to the veteran Stanton etc...).

I don't fault Pete for wanting to win now, at all. However, I hope it doesn't increasingly delegate youngsters in the BP to afterthoughts, doesn't cost young guys like Hamilton/EdE at bats, and doesn't dissuade Krivsky from realizing we need to rebuild now... otherwise, 2008 will arrive looking a lot like 2007. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to interim manager's ploys, as I really, really like Pete.

[Big Klu]

Well, if needed, the Reds can extend their bullpen today by using starters.

I mentioned last night that Belisle should be available today in the bullpen. Arroyo might be available in an emergency, as well, but I would rather not have to go there.

But I would rather go with either of them than Coffey or Burton in extra innings.

[Red in Chicago]

which is the absurd part. There is no future in Stanton and Weathers. Pete should have been told that maximizing the number of wins is not his main priority but rather the priority should be trying to figure out what the Reds have(if anything) in all the young guys in the pen.

Probably showcasing them now before all the trades start.

[corkedbat]

Joey Votto interviewed by Erin Andrews. He's already had a better Futures Game than Bruce. C'mon Jr, jerk one!

[Matt700wlw]

I got Griffey yacking a walk off. Anyone with me?

Sure, why not?

[Matt700wlw]

Joey Votto interviewed by Erin Andrews. He's already had a better Futures Game than Bruce.

He also can't stand up at the moment :p:

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel leads off with a ground rule double.

[corkedbat]

Too bad that bounced out or Freel would'a gone to third

[Red in Chicago]

Ok Freel, don't do anything stupid on the basepaths :laugh:

[Stormy]

Good rip by Freel, assuming he doesn't erase himself before someone can drive him in.

[Matt700wlw]

IBB for Griffey

[Big Klu]

Maybe Freel should consider stealing third on the intentional walk. :D

[Reds Fanatic]

Intentional walk to Junior. 1st and 2nd.

[VR]

Sure, why not?

Snakes saw it coming ;)

[Matt700wlw]

Marty says bunt Phillips...Jeff says no.

I'm with Jeff.... :)

Looks like Marty wins.

[Big Klu]

Wow! Griffey goes into second base HARD!

[corkedbat]

good breakup by the old man!

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips breaks his bat and grounds into a 6-4 fielder's choice. 1st and 3rd with 1 out.

[Tom Servo]

Clutch slide by Junior.

[Eric_Davis]

Nice takeout at 2nd, Junior....may have won the game on that effort.

[Red in Chicago]

Nice slide by JR at second. :thumbup:

[MrCinatit]

Great slide by Jr. to prevent the double play.

Now - Javy...just make contact. A fly ball would be nice.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin pinch hitting for Stanton.

[Big Klu]

Do you send Phillips?

[Red in Chicago]

Javy is overdue

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin grounds into a 4-6-3 DP as Ojeda makes a great stop.

[corkedbat]

#$##%$^&%$$%^^! porn stache!

[Matt700wlw]

How Reds-like

[Stormy]

Javy is overdue

No, he's never due, there's a difference. ;) Pretty phenomenal DP, yikes. Who is next our of Pete's BP today?

[Big Klu]

OK, who pitches?

[Reds Fanatic]

Coutlangus in to pitch.

[Big Klu]

Jon Coutlangus in to pitch against the lefty.

[Eric_Davis]

I appreciate that he didn't put Valentin in to catch.

[Big Klu]

I appreciate that he didn't put Valentin in to catch.

That wouldn't make any sense--Ross is due up third in the bottom of the inning.

[WVRedsFan]

How Reds-like
No. How Narron-like. Why do they take our players out in these situations. Surely to the Almighty, Pete has watched this bullpen enough to know we'll need more runs and Javier is simply not who you want up there. The starter should be batting here. In fact, I'd DFA Valentin tomorrow and bring Moeller up (did I say that?). IMHO, he brings nothing to the team.

[Matt700wlw]

Kirk Saarloos coming in to a situation he's not meant for.

[Red in Chicago]

No. How Narron-like. Why do they take Dunn out in these situations. Surely to the Almighty, Pete has watched this bullpen enough to know we'll need more runs and Javier is simply not who you want up there. Edwin should be batting here. In fact, I'd DFA Valentin tomorrow and bring Moeller up (did I say that?). IMHO, he brings nothing to the team.

Did you see the catch that Hopper made a few innings ago? That's why Dunn is out. :)

[WVRedsFan]

Did you see the catch that Hopper made a few innings ago? That's why Dunn is out. :)

Makes no difference if you lose. I've never been a fan of taking a bat out of the lineup for "defensive purposes". Unless your lead is more than 4 runs.

[Matt700wlw]

Kirk Saarloos coming in to a situation he's not meant for.

Shows what I know :)

[Red in Chicago]

Saarloos getting the job done. One pitch double play.

[Eric_Davis]

Excellent!

Give me a Monty Burns photo.

[PuffyPig]

Makes no difference if you lose.

That's right. If Dunn had been left in, we might have already lost.

[guttle11]

Time for a walkoff...

[Kc61]

Seems to be a lot of unhappiness on this thread. Harang pitched great. Weathers with a rare bad outing; it happens to the best of them. Reds hit into some key DPs but so have the Dbacks. Stanton pitching well. Saarloos with a nice DP.

Too bad Harang didn't get the win, but he's had some good luck this half season. Law of averages evens things out.

Reds are playing better, this kind of game happens to all teams.

To me the most upsetting thing about the game is that I thought the last Zona hit in the ninth should have been caught either by Freel or Griffey. Reds lose a lot of outs with their outfield defense.

Let's get a win and start trading people to make things interesting.

[Red in Chicago]

That's right. If Dunn had been left in, we might have already lost.

exactly :p:

[Eric_Davis]

I don't think there's been a game all year where Weathers was the only reliever to give up runs and we won the game. This would be a nice first.

[guttle11]

EdE walks...

[flyer85]

That's right. If Dunn had been left in, we might have already lost.which is not the point

[guttle11]

Why doesn't Pete PH a pitcher to sacrifice? Let Lopez play short if it doesn't work out.

I mean, if you're going to give an out, do your best to make sure you achieve the goal in doing so.

[flyer85]

all the attempted bunting sure has worked out

[Red in Chicago]

all the attempted bunting sure has worked out

"little things"

[flyer85]

"little things"advancing the runner didn't work last inning. Pete had his cleanup hitter bunting

[VR]

Brew crew lost....Reds can climb to 13 back with the W :)

[Red in Chicago]

I think Ross is going yard this ab

[Stormy]

How bad is Gonzalez, with another 3K game filled with terrible ABs? He's now sporting an OBP in the 290s (245+OBP since late May). Aside from his inflated power surge, I can't think of a single positive from this guy in months aside from initiating a few nice DP turns.

[WVRedsFan]

That's right. If Dunn had been left in, we might have already lost.

You lose either way. I'm not sure Dunn wouldn't have caught that ball, are you?

[jesusfan]

nice... Edwin to 2nd... c'mon Ross!

[corkedbat]

Didn't Pete get the scouting report. Most of his guys couldn't lay down a sac bunt if someone was holding a gun to their mama's head at 2nd base. Why try?

[jesusfan]

1st and 2nd, 1 out... c'mon Norris!

[flyer85]

I can't think of a single positive what about Gold Glove quality defense? :ughmamoru

[Stormy]

Let's get a win and start trading people to make things interesting.

You're right, they've mostly played very well for Pete. I'm starting to worry that Krivsky may interpret that to indicate that we only need mild renovations on this squad, which couldn't be further from the truth.

[Matt700wlw]

Can Hopper play hero in back to back days?

[jesusfan]

dang... Force at 2nd... Hopper legs it out.. .1st and 3rd.. c'mon Hatte!

[Red in Chicago]

How about a wild pitch or passed ball here:devil:

[Matt700wlw]

Hatteberg!!!!!! Sweeeeeeeep!!

[WVRedsFan]

Hatteberg the hero!

[Stormy]

Great game for Hatte... Reds win.

[jesusfan]

13 GB!!!!

[MrCinatit]

Another walk-off - NICE!

[Eric_Davis]

You lose either way. I'm not sure Dunn wouldn't have caught that ball, are you?

Dunn wouldn't have got within 10 feet of it, yet alone attempt to catch it, or make the catch.

[corkedbat]

nice way to head into the break!

[Eric_Davis]

New Manager.

New Attitude.

New Results.

This game is played between the ears.

The REDS were not as bad as the leadership of Narron had them playing.

[flyer85]

start trading people to make things interesting.they should trade for Ryan Franklin

[Eric_Davis]

Jay Bruce Triples!

[WVRedsFan]

Dunn wouldn't have got within 10 feet of it, yet alone attempt to catch it, or make the catch.

This is silly. Just trade him---send him away and forget abut anything on the offensive side of the ball he brings. I really get tired of defensive replacements when your bench is so thin that Javier freaking Valentin is your No. 1 pinch hitter. This club with its bullpen is not set up for having defensive replacements. You have to score often to win. And scoring often does not include a lineup without Griffey and Dunn.

[jesusfan]

Jay Bruce just tripled about 420 feet away.... wow, he is going to be special!

[Big Klu]

Way to go, Hatte! Good win by the Reds--their first sweep in almost a year!

[Eric_Davis]

This is silly. Just trade him---send him away and forget abut anything on the offensive side of the ball he brings. I really get tired of defensive replacements when your bench is so thin that Javier freaking Valentin is your No. 1 pinch hitter. This club with its bullpen is not set up for having defensive replacements. You have to score often to win. And scoring often does not include a lineup without Griffey and Dunn.

With a 2-run lead in the 9th, it was the right move and should be made every time.

[PuffyPig]

The Reds win a game they seemed destined to lose.

Maybe our luck is changing?

And we still have gone longer without losing than any other team when leading after 8 innings.

[WVRedsFan]

With a 2-run lead in the 9th, it was the right move and should be made every time.


Whatever.

[Big Klu]

With a 2-run lead in the 9th, it was the right move and should be made every time.

Especially considering that Dunn's spot in the order would be the eighth hitter in the bottom of the ninth, should the Reds not be able to hold the lead (which they didn't).

[flyer85]

New Manager.

New Attitude.

New Results.

This game is played between the ears.

The REDS were not as bad as the leadership of Narron had them playing.regression to the mean as CW pointed out today. They aren't as bad as the results(pythag record showed that), instead they have won a few close ones.

[flyer85]

With a 2-run lead in the 9th, it was the right move and should be made every time.have data for that?

[OnBaseMachine]

The Reds can't even have a productive losing season. If you are going to suck, then do it the right way - get the number one or two overall pick. Instead, here we are, winners of five of six and will probably end up with a pick outside of the top seven or so. This winning streak only hurts us in the future. And why do I picture Krivsky now hanging on to Dunn/Griffey/Weathers/Hatteberg/Lohse because of this win streak?

[Stormy]

You have to score often to win. And scoring often does not include a lineup without Griffey and Dunn.

I'm not always a fan of that move, but I can certainly see it's merits in situations like today's game. You're at home holding a lead against a severely struggling Diamondbacks offense, and you're handing the ball to your only BP stopper who hasn't blown a save in a month (a span over which he's only allowed 2ER). Dunn's an enormous defensive liability in LF, and is 8 spots away from batting again, so you make the upgrade. It can bite you, if you can't hold the lead, but the defensive upgrade is likely the only thing which allowed it to go extra innings. Not a major issue, in my opinon.

[Big Klu]

I noticed during Jim Day's interview that Scott Hatteberg really sounds like a leader. I would like to think that the Reds could find a spot for him in their organization once he retires.

[westofyou]

Whatever.

Whatever?

Whatever or not Norris Hopper covers more ground the Dunn and defense does matter.

I'd do it every 9th inning myself.

[CTA513]

Whatever?

Whatever or not Norris Hopper covers more ground the Dunn and defense does matter.

I'd do it every 9th inning myself.

The Reds also needed someone to cover right center that inning.

[Big Klu]

Whatever?

Whatever or not Norris Hopper covers more ground the Dunn and defense does matter.

I'd do it every 9th inning myself.

If Norris Hopper's name were Chris Denorfia, then nobody would have a problem with it. :D

[Big Klu]

The Reds also needed someone to cover right center that inning.

Unfortunately, he was sitting on the bench with his arm in a cast.

[westofyou]

The Reds also needed someone to cover right center that inning.

Replacing only one corner outfielder for the Reds is basically a combover, the pitcher must try and keep the ball on the side that gets the replacement, it's a precarious dance with nature.

[WVRedsFan]

have data for that?

I wondered that myself, but it's not worth arguing. On a team as thin offensively as the Reds are and have been, it's tough to take a bat out of the lineup considering the bullpen we are saddled with. Weathers had pitched well recently, but history tells us that with little rest, he can become a hit machine. That was the case today. He's relly not a closer and even he admits it. In those situations, I keep Dunn in the lineup. We don't have the kind of team that can afford to take any win for granted and defensive replacements send the message that we so little confidence in our pitching staff that we send in guys who may rob the opposition of hits. That's fine if you have a top tier club, but on this particular team, it makes no sense to me.

It all worked out and that's all that matters. Taking a 4-game winning streak into the break and the second series win in a row helps, but what will this team do after the break? I have no idea, but there's enough difference in this team, despite the personnel, to show that Narron was a large part of the problem and for that I applaud the FO for making a change.

[Stormy]

I wondered that myself, but it's not worth arguing. On a team as thin offensively as the Reds are and have been, it's tough to take a bat out of the lineup considering the bullpen we are saddled with. Weathers had pitched well recently, but history tells us that with little rest, he can become a hit machine. That was the case today. He's relly not a closer and even he admits it. In those situations, I keep Dunn in the lineup. We don't have the kind of team that can afford to take any win for granted and defensive replacements send the message that we so little confidence in our pitching staff that we send in guys who may rob the opposition of hits. That's fine if you have a top tier club, but on this particular team, it makes no sense to me.

It all worked out and that's all that matters. Taking a 4-game winning streak into the break and the second series win in a row helps, but what will this team do after the break? I have no idea, but there's enough difference in this team, despite the personnel, to show that Narron was a large part of the problem and for that I applaud the FO for making a change.


Nice post. I can see both sides of it.

[Tony Cloninger]

What difference does it make if the team is a top tier team or a team that is under .500? All teams at one time or another...or at 1 position or another..use defensive replacements?

What does using a defensive replacement have to do with confidence in your pitchers? I mean that is more deserving of a "whatever" comment than the previous one you used.
I think all pitchers want people out there who they know can catch the ball and make plays like the one Hopper just made.

Driessen or Chaney at 3B in 1974 with a late lead?
DD was Dunn like at 3B before the switch to 1B.
Sam Mejias used to replace Dave Collins in CF for DP .......so much so that Collins was quoted as saying that he expected Mejias to replace him late at night when he went home to sleep....or some witty thing like that.


With a DW....who hitters can make more contact with than a Goose Gossage.... you need your best fielders..... Yet Billy Martin would take out Reggie Jackson for Paul Blair even with GG pitching.

[Ltlabner]

What difference does it make if the team is a top tier team or a team that is under .500? All teams at one time or another...or at 1 position or another..use defensive replacements?

What does using a defensive replacement have to do with confidence in your pitchers? I mean that is more deserving of a "whatever" comment than the previous one you used.
I think all pitchers want people out there who they know can catch the ball and make plays like the one Hopper just made.

Driessen or Chaney at 3B in 1974 with a late lead?
DD was Dunn like at 3B before the switch to 1B.
Sam Mejias used to replace Dave Collins in CF for DP .......so much so that Collins was quoted as saying that he expected Mejias to replace him late at night when he went home to sleep....or some witty thing like that.


With a DW....who hitters can make more contact with than a Goose Gossage.... you need your best fielders..... Yet Billy Martin would take out Reggie Jackson for Paul Blair even with GG pitching.


Holy crap. Other teams use defensive replacements? Whew...there for a second I thought the Reds came up with it and were just being idiots.

[Tony Cloninger]

I know sarcasm when I hear it....maybe some of us need replacement posters.

Judging from other posters...it does look like it's a novel concept that the Reds just started using.

[Caveat Emperor]

I noticed during Jim Day's interview that Scott Hatteberg really sounds like a leader. I would like to think that the Reds could find a spot for him in their organization once he retires.

I'd have made him player-manager for the remainder of this season, but thats more because I think its the kind of shakeup that franchises need from time to time.

BTW -- I don't like Hopper hitting in a potential double-play situation when the hottest hitter on the team is on-deck -- though I suppose w/ 2 outs and runners on 2nd and 3rd, there would be a strong temptation to put him on intentionally. Either way, I put the bat in Hatteberg's hands, not Hopper's.

[oneupper]

Very weak managing job by Mackanin today, IMO.

Two walks apiece for Griffey and Dunn suggest they were pitched around.
(Poor lineup construction).

Mack fell into the "defensive" trap of "hoping the other guy doesn't score".

I wouldn't have sent Harang to bat in the 7th. Sure he got the 8th but later admitted that the heat was affecting him. Yeah, it worked...but still.

Weathers came in to "close", despite two of three hitters due up were lefties.
Not to criticize, but not much imagination either.
Does Weathers HAVE to pitch EVERY save situation?
Leave him out for the 1Oth? Wasn't expecting that.

Ross bunting with two strikes? C'mon.

Javy PH in a situation where a DP or K was the only thing to avoid? Why not try Kepp (who rarely strikes out) or give Lopez a shot. Again...OK, but WAY too predictable.

Mackanin was Narron today. Managing SCARED. Hopefully he can reflect on this game almost lost and be a bit more agressive after the break.