Girardi a Possibility

[Mutaman]

This was in Bill Madden's column in todays New York Daily News:

"Two more managers hit the road this past week, one (Jerry Narron of the Reds) expectedly and the other (Mike Hargrove of the Mariners) most unexpectedly. With the Reds playing miserably all season, sporting the worst record in baseball after being considered a contender in the weak NL Central, there was no way Narron was going to survive. New Reds owner Bob Castellini had high expectations and gave GM Wayne Krivsky the go-ahead to increase payroll by nearly $20 million. Now Krivsky's challenge to save his own job will be making the right deal for free-swinging slugger Adam Dunn and finding the right manager.

In regard to the latter, there is a lot of pressure on Krivsky to hire a high-profile manager. The last three Reds managers to reach the postseason - Jack McKeon, Davey Johnson and Lou Piniella - fit that description and Castellini is believed to be enamored with the idea of a package deal of Joe Girardi as manager and Cincy native Paul O'Neill as bench coach. Girardi, who wisely turned down the Baltimore Orioles' job, also figures to be a top candidate in Kansas City (where Buddy Bell will be out after the season) if he doesn't land in Cincinnati before then."

[Chi-Town Red]

yea Buddy Bell..thats all we need

[MasonBuzz3]

... Castellini is believed to be enamored with the idea of a package deal of Joe Girardi as manager and Cincy native Paul O'Neill as bench coach.
I didn't think that Paul O'Neil was a Cincy native, but I have always thought O'Neil would make a quality coach. Talk about some fire on the bench with those two, you had better be busting it out of the batter's box on everything

[Degenerate39]

I didn't think that Paul O'Neil was a Cincy native, but I have always thought O'Neil would make a quality coach. Talk about some fire on the bench with those two, you had better be busting it out of the batter's box on everything

Paul was born in Columbus

[kaldaniels]

I didn't think that Paul O'Neil was a Cincy native, but I have always thought O'Neil would make a quality coach. Talk about some fire on the bench with those two, you had better be busting it out of the batter's box on everything

I agree...nothing is for certain, but where would this team be right now if they hadn't had a manager who just stood there, arms crossed for the past 4 months in the dugout.

[Mutaman]

Paul was born in Columbus

You don't understand: For New Yorkers, everything west of the Hudson River is Cincinnati.

The key to this article is that Madden knows whats going on with the Yankees, where both Girardi and Paul are announcers. If he says that there is a possibility of this happening, mark it down. Also, I assumed when Girardi turned down the Baltimore job, it was because he was waiting to see what happened to Torre, and possibly battle it out with Mattingly to manage the Yankees. This article indicates thats not the case and that Girardi is still on the market.

I have always thought that O'neill would be great in either a front office or a bench job. To get either him or girardi or both here would be a dream come true, and the end of our long nightmare.

[cacollinsmba]

I understand that Girardi's name is batted around as the next guy for the Yankees but I don't think he has that sewn up. There is still the issue of Don Mattingly being around.

[Redsfan08]

paul 0'neil has bench coach intresting

[steig]

First spring training practice with O'Niel : How to properly punt the batting helmet into the air

[Mutaman]

First spring training practice with O'Niel : How to properly punt the batting helmet into the air


Lesson #2: How to win a World Championship. How many rings do him and Girardi have between them, 9 or 10?
I don't think the mighty Yankees have won anything since Paul retired either.

[uoduck1017]

I have to believe most fans would be ecstatic with this combination. Myself included.

[steig]

Lesson #2: How to win a World Championship. How many rings do him and Girardi have between them, 9 or 10?
I don't think the mighty Yankees have won anything since Paul retired either.

I don't disagree. I think O'Niel is great. He and Joe would bring an attitude to the team that we haven't seen since Sweet Lou

[Blitz Dorsey]

First spring training practice with O'Niel : How to properly punt the batting helmet into the air

Or, how to kick the ball and get someone out.

Or, how to throw out Andy Van Slyke at third base on a tag attempt with an absolute dart from deep right field in the 1990 NLCS.

[boognish]

I have to believe most fans would be ecstatic with this combination. Myself included.

I don't understand the big deal about Girardi...because the Marlins went 78-84 with a ~15MM payroll?

There are very clear blemishes on his one-season record that should scare off most fans:

1. Mismanagement of the bullpen. IMO, bullpen management and its brother, pitcher workload management (more on this in a moment) are the primary functions of a field manager. All good managers can cobble a decent bullpen together wherein the sum is greater than the parts, and with the Reds' collection of unproven arms, this aspect is of tantamount importance.

2. Unnecessary devotion to small ball. 40 sacrifice bunts with position players, including seven from .480 SLG, 27 HR man Dan Uggla, is too many. George Grande would love it, but it would cost the team runs. He also had a tendency to overmanage, calling formore than league average pitch-outs and intentional walks.

3. Riding young pitchers too hard. The classic example, of course, is running top rookie starter Josh Johnson back out to the mound after a 70-minute rain delay. The ulnar nerve problem Johnson experienced is still not healed properly--this is a bit subjective based on his complaints of forearm tightness, the same malady which led to the original injury--and fellow youngsters Anibal Sanchez, Rick Nolasco, and Logan Kensing are all experiencing arm trouble. I am also convinced Scott Olsen isn't the same...that is the entire rotation aside from Dontrelle Willis rendered ineffective, so I am skeptical it is a coincidence.

4. Not playing role-players in their proper place. Starting Alfredo Amezaga and leading him off against left-handed starters is complete idiocy. You can
view Amezaga's splits here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=amezaal01&year=2006

That OPS is, in fact, under .400.

I see a lot of anecdotal similarities between Girardi and Narron, actually...except Girardi is more "fiery," has a Manager of the Year Award (for a fourth-place finish), and doesn't get along well with ownership.

I really like Girardi as a broadcaster, though. The point is, let's not anoint anyone until it is evident who is available and who fits with the team's personnel. I don't want Girardi around the young pitchers of the team I follow.

[uoduck1017]

I don't understand the big deal about Girardi...because the Marlins went 78-84 with a ~15MM payroll?

There are very clear blemishes on his one-season record that should scare off most fans:

1. Mismanagement of the bullpen. IMO, bullpen management and its brother, pitcher workload management (more on this in a moment) are the primary functions of a field manager. All good managers can cobble a decent bullpen together wherein the sum is greater than the parts, and with the Reds' collection of unproven arms, this aspect is of tantamount importance.

2. Unnecessary devotion to small ball. 40 sacrifice bunts with position players, including seven from .480 SLG, 27 HR man Dan Uggla, is too many. George Grande would love it, but it would cost the team runs. He also had a tendency to overmanage, calling formore than league average pitch-outs and intentional walks.

3. Riding young pitchers too hard. The classic example, of course, is running top rookie starter Josh Johnson back out to the mound after a 70-minute rain delay. The ulnar nerve problem Johnson experienced is still not healed properly--this is a bit subjective based on his complaints of forearm tightness, the same malady which led to the original injury--and fellow youngsters Anibal Sanchez, Rick Nolasco, and Logan Kensing are all experiencing arm trouble. I am also convinced Scott Olsen isn't the same...that is the entire rotation aside from Dontrelle Willis rendered ineffective, so I am skeptical it is a coincidence.

4. Not playing role-players in their proper place. Starting Alfredo Amezaga and leading him off against left-handed starters is complete idiocy. You can
view Amezaga's splits here: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=amezaal01&year=2006

That OPS is, in fact, under .400.

I see a lot of anecdotal similarities between Girardi and Narron, actually...except Girardi is more "fiery," has a Manager of the Year Award (for a fourth-place finish), and doesn't get along well with ownership.

I really like Girardi as a broadcaster, though. The point is, let's not anoint anyone until it is evident who is available and who fits with the team's personnel. I don't want Girardi around the young pitchers of the team I follow.

It can go both ways then. Yes, it was just one year, so therefore that season should not be judged too harshly. For all we know, his bad relationship with the owner could have caused him to over-manage. A fresh start for Joe would be great if all parties were on the same page in Cincy.

[mroby85]

correct me if i'm wrong, but girardi wasn't the manager for that entire year was he? i thought they were over .500 when he took over, and even if he did go 78-84 i think thats very impressive with a 15 mill. payroll.

[BearcatShane]

correct me if i'm wrong, but girardi wasn't the manager for that entire year was he? i thought they were over .500 when he took over, and even if he did go 78-84 i think thats very impressive with a 15 mill. payroll.


He was the manager for the entire season.

[dougflynn23]

:confused: The Marlins, without Nolasco, Sanchez, and a very underrated Joe Borowski are essentially playing just as well in 2007 as they did in 2006 under Girardi. Not saying Girardi's not a quality manager, but Jerry Narron had a better record in 2006 than did Girardi, and I'll argue that Girardi has equal or better talent to work with regardless of the payroll.

[mroby85]

that team matured though, do you remember how bad florida was at the beginning of the year last year? they were young, and improved a lot.

[Mutaman]

Girardi took the worst team in baseball and made them a contender. Thats why he was voted manager of the year. Anyone who has followed him as a player (three rings), listened to him as an anouncer, and listened to what people like Torre, Jeter, and Posada say about him, realize that he is going to be a great manager. I've had enough of the inexpensive guys like Boone, Miley, and Naron.

As much as Reds fan owe to Lou, I think the Cubs made a major mistake in not hiring Girardi and it looks like the Yankees will do the same. Remember, Giradi in his first season as manager, took over a team with a 21 million dollar payroll, started out 10 and 30, and had them contending in September, marking the first time in Major League history a team that was 20 games under .500 went back over .500 in the same season. To say under these circumstances that Florida had more talent than the Reds and that Naron had a better record, or to criticize Girardi because he likes to bunt or because he couldn't get along with a tool like Loria, is the same kind of thinking thats got the Reds where they are now, at the bottom.

Lets go hard after this guy.

[boognish]

Girardi took the worst team in baseball and made them a contender.

That is unqualifiable. He was responsible for none of the trades or pickups prior to the season that brought in talented players like Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez, Rick Nolasco, Dan Uggla, and others, and none of the player development for farm products that contributed to the Marlins' overachieving fourth-place 78-84 record. If you want to pay top dollar for a guy's Manager of the Year Award, that's your prerogative.


To say under these circumstances that Florida had more talent than the Reds and that Naron had a better record, or to criticize Girardi because he likes to bunt or because he couldn't get along with a tool like Loria, is the same kind of thinking thats got the Reds where they are now, at the bottom.

These are all facts, though, and you are dismissing them because you like Girardi. He may happen to be the best person for the Reds' job, but in my opinion he is not, and I gave facts to support my opinion that have more weight than managerial record over a conveniently chosen subset of games. Jeff Loria being "a tool" is not really up for debate, and I wouldn't dipute that besides.

I am VERY concerned with the patterns of pitching staff usage, especially considering the Reds will have a young staff but not the depth in the minors Florida enjoys. The Reds cannot afford to have Girardi jamming young arms into the wood chipper because he is "old school" or "manages every game like Game 7 of the World Series." This team needs a visionary who understands that the focus is 2009 (in the GM office as well) and doesn't compromise assets in the meantime for the sake of his record. If that is the kind of thinking that keeps the Reds at the bottom, I am definitely guilty.

Adding Girardi does not fix the problems with this roster, and the top dollar it would take to get him is better spent on players or player development rather than the old cliche of "sending a winning message to the fans."

[TheWalls]

Girardi took the worst team in baseball and made them a contender. Thats why he was voted manager of the year. Anyone who has followed him as a player (three rings), listened to him as an anouncer, and listened to what people like Torre, Jeter, and Posada say about him, realize that he is going to be a great manager. I've had enough of the inexpensive guys like Boone, Miley, and Naron.

As much as Reds fan owe to Lou, I think the Cubs made a major mistake in not hiring Girardi and it looks like the Yankees will do the same. Remember, Giradi in his first season as manager, took over a team with a 21 million dollar payroll, started out 10 and 30, and had them contending in September, marking the first time in Major League history a team that was 20 games under .500 went back over .500 in the same season. To say under these circumstances that Florida had more talent than the Reds and that Naron had a better record, or to criticize Girardi because he likes to bunt or because he couldn't get along with a tool like Loria, is the same kind of thinking thats got the Reds where they are now, at the bottom.

Lets go hard after this guy.


Couldn't agree more, GET HIM! I also really like the Paul O'neill for bench coach rumor as part of this deal.

[boognish]

Couldn't agree more, GET HIM! I also really like the Paul O'neill for bench coach rumor as part of this deal.

Why? What does Paul O'Neill and his zero coaching experience bring that is so enticing? Would he even want to BE a coach?

[TheWalls]

Why? What does Paul O'Neill and his zero coaching experience bring that is so enticing? Would he even want to BE a coach?

An approach to the game of baseball, a professionalism, an understanding, that was superior to some of our recent coaches even when he was a player. Plus he's got something the players respect... World Series rings.

[George Anderson]

An approach to the game of baseball, a professionalism, an understanding, that was superior to some of our recent coaches even when he was a player. Plus he's got something the players respect... World Series rings.

I wouldnt have any problem with O'Neill being a coach but has he expressed any interest at all in coaching?? If this is all just speculation then I see it as a waste of time until he comes out and expresses interest in coaching.

[Redsman80]

Oneil is from Dublin(Columbus sub)

[jimbo]

An approach to the game of baseball, a professionalism, an understanding, that was superior to some of our recent coaches even when he was a player.

That doesn't necessarily equate to being a good coach or manager.

[mroby85]

you have to get your start somewhere

[jimbo]

you have to get your start somewhere

Let him start in the minor league system then.

[ThirdBaseCoach]

I agree with boognish's astute observations. It's as if he was there the entire season. Giradi belongs elsewhere with a fresh start. Everyone will see his true colors then.

Joe puts Joe first and the team, owner, fans, everyone else last. Sitting next to Torre as an American League bench coach is not a valid proving ground. American League bench coaches are unnecessary. Ask Jim Leyland.

Nor is managing one season, in the bigs or elsewhere. Find someone who has managed at various levels, handled big league players, the media, and develops a good relationship with the players. That's the guy this team needs.