7/29/07 - Reds vs. Cubs Game Thread

[Reds Fanatic]

Starting Lineups:


Chi Cubs
A. Soriano lf
R. Theriot ss
D. Lee 1b
A. Ramirez 3b
M. DeRosa rf
M. Fontenot 2b
A. Pagan cf
K. Hill c
C. Zambrano p

Cincinnati
S. Hatteberg 1b
R. Freel cf
K. Griffey Jr. rf
B. Phillips 2b
A. Dunn lf
J. Keppinger ss
J. Valentin c
E. Encarnacion 3b
M. Belisle p

[coachw513]

C Trent not looking very comfortable on FSN pregame...CTrent with the "Jim McMahon" look (sunglasses)...however, he clearly is the only guy willing to have a pulse during the "Play Reds GM" segment...

So banana-phone like...whew...

[coachw513]

Welsh makes the Arroyo-Weathers for Salty-Jo Jo Reyes while CTrent does not...

Welsh says Dunn will be traded to the Nationals...CTrent says Dunn will stay...

Oh, one discussed option, Brandon Webb for Harang and Bailey...

Thoughts??

[NJReds]

Welsh makes the Arroyo-Weathers for Salty-Jo Jo Reyes while CTrent does not...

I'd do that deal.


Welsh says Dunn will be traded to the Nationals...CTrent says Dunn will stay...

Agree with CT. I don't think Dunn gets traded.


Oh, one discussed option, Brandon Webb for Harang and Bailey...

Webb's actually one year younger than Harang. But they're too close to do this straight up. I'd need something else in return from AZ. It's tempting though, because Webb's a sinkerball pitcher.

[Big Klu]

I would prefer a lineup of:

Hatteberg 1b
Keppinger ss
Griffey rf
Dunn lf
Phillips 2b
Encarnacion 3b
Valentin c
Freel cf
Belisle p

But I know it won't happen.

[Reds Fanatic]

Soriano flies out to left. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Theriot singles to right.

[Matt700wlw]

If Belisle keeps leaving that ball up in the zone, he's not going to be around very long...

[Matt700wlw]

Yeah.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lee is hit by the pitch. 1st and 2nd.

[Matt700wlw]

This is about as predictable as my crap smelling bad....

[Reds Fanatic]

Ramirez doubles off the wall in right. 1-0 Cubs. 2nd and 3rd.

[Reds Fanatic]

DeRosa with a sac. fly to center. 2-0 Cubs.

[Red in Chicago]

Belisle bad...what more can you say

[Gainesville Red]

Belisle looks like he's throwing BP at times.

[Reds Fanatic]

Fontenot grounds out to Belisle. 2-0 Cubs mid 1st.

[Cedric]

The problem is that people confuse velocity with "stuff".

Like most pitchers on this staff, Belisle brings below average "stuff" to the table. He can't locate pitches and that's why he gives up so many 0-2 rockets.

[Red in Chicago]

I think they need to get into Z-man's head early in this game. He's been pitching very well lately.

[Matt700wlw]

Belisle warned after hitting Lee? Marty wonders...

Not sure why, I don't think it was intentional, he just can't locate...plus, I don't think he has the cajones to intentionally hit someone, or retaliate if one of his teammates gets hit

[Reds Fanatic]

Hatteberg walks.

[Red in Chicago]

Why was he bunting already

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel flies out to center. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior fouls out to 3rd. 2 outs.

[Matt700wlw]

Maybe Zambrano will punch somebody, today

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips lines a single to center. 1st and 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn pops out to short. 2-0 Cubs after 1.

[Red in Chicago]

2 pop outs that inning. Remember the good old days when they just struck out ;)

[Tony Cloninger]

If you try to pull Zambrano's fastball ...you are going to then get the pop up you just got. I hope Dunn does not go into one of his long..bad looking slumps.

Why is Freel starting everyday? What is the problem with starting Hopper?

[Patrick Bateman]

I'll step in and be the positive poster of the day.

I like Belisle. I think he's solid and can locate well. From here on in he will pitch a good game.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pagan grounds out to 2nd.
Hill strikes out swinging.

[Matt700wlw]

I'll step in and be the positive poster of the day.

I like Belisle. I think he's solid and can locate well. From here n in he will pitch a good game.

Based on what?


;)

[Reds Fanatic]

Zambrano singles to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

Soriano with a ground rule double on fan interference. Here comes Lou to argue.

[KronoRed]

Bean Z, he'll get so mad he'll get tossed ;)

[Matt700wlw]

Lou is entertaining

[Matt700wlw]

Belisle got away with one there....that was a homer. The fan saved him, and now will be politely escorted out of the ballpark

[Reds Fanatic]

Theriot pops out to 2nd. 2-0 Cubs mid 2nd.

[NJReds]

Reds dodge a bullet due to a bad call.

[RFS62]

For once we benefit from the incredibly bad umpiring of Joe West and C.B. Buckner.

Hard to believe they're on the same crew. They should try to get Angel Hernandez over there too.

[Red in Chicago]

Belisle got away with one there....that was a homer. The fan saved him, and now will be politely escorted out of the ballpark

I think it was a homer as well. Did he really get booted from the park on that?

[Matt700wlw]

I think it was a homer as well. Did he really get booted from the park on that?

I think you're supposed to....he did reach over a bit, but didn't really need to...it would have been out.

[BCubb2003]

Belisle got away with one there....that was a homer. The fan saved him, and now will be politely escorted out of the ballpark

Bartman's in the house. Keep that guy in the game. He saved a run.

[Patrick Bateman]

Based on what?


;)

Based on that he's actually pitched pretty well this season.

6.20 K/9
2.14 BB/9
1.22 HR/9
1.28 GB/FB

.336 BAPIP
4.36 FIP
12.0% HR/FB

Basically in my mind, Belisle has pitched well this season, and his struggles have resulted from bad defense and GABP. I think with an average defense and a park not suited for major run scoring, Belisle could be a very solid back of the rotation starter.

And I'm not just basing this on stats. I like watching him pitch. He doesn't have great stuff, but I think he controls the corners effectively which allows him to keep the walks to a minimum and mix in the occassional K.

[Reds Fanatic]

Keppinger grounds out to 1st. 1 out.

[RFS62]

I think you're supposed to....he did reach over a bit, but didn't really need to...it would have been out.


Hey, the ushers have the benefit of instant replay.

[WVRedsFan]

I couldn't tell if it was fan interference or not, so I can't say, but it was lucky for Belisle. We need to be revamping our pitching yesterday.

[KronoRed]

Can he keep the baseball?

[Tony Cloninger]

Matt is just throwing the most innings he has in a while......he may just be tired or just tired enough not to be able to pitch effectively He is like a Pat Darcy type.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin flies out to center. Really making Zambrano work hard. 2 outs on 3 pitches.

[mbgrayson]

Hey, the ushers have the benefit of instant replay.

Clearly looked to be over the 'yellow line' and a homer. If I were one of those fans and I got escorted out, I would sure complain. Didn't look on replay like fan reached down at all.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion grounds out to 3rd. Another blown call as Lee was not on the base when he caught that throw. 2-0 Cubs after 2.

[Matt700wlw]

When showing an attractive female in a tank top, I request that FSN remove the graphics from the bottom of the screen...

[Reds Fanatic]

Lee flies out to right on the first pitch. 1 out.

[Red in Chicago]

Encarnacion grounds out to 3rd. Another blown call as Lee was not on the base when he caught that throw. 2-0 Cubs after 2.

D-Lee doing his Keith Hernandez impersonation

[Matt700wlw]

Belisle is awful on 0-2 pitches

[Reds Fanatic]

Ramirez singles to left.

[Reds Fanatic]

DeRosa singles to right. 1st and 2nd.

[Matt700wlw]

The thing about Belise...he never seems to learn from him mistakes or make any adjustments from hitter to hitter or game to game.

[BCubb2003]

Belisle is awful on 0-2 pitches

Maybe he should try getting behind the batters.

[Red in Chicago]

Maybe he should try getting behind the batters.

Maybe he should go into the drywall business with Ricky Stone

[Kc61]

Matt is just throwing the most innings he has in a while......he may just be tired or just tired enough not to be able to pitch effectively He is like a Pat Darcy type.

Look at Belisle's last starting season at AAA. Same exact pattern. A good first month or so, then gradually became ineffective. By the end of that season, he was getting rocked most every time out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Fontenot strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Pagan grounds out to 1st. 2-0 Cubs mid 3rd.

[Patrick Bateman]

The thing about Belise...he never seems to learn from him mistakes or make any adjustments from hitter to hitter or game to game.


Belisle is awful on 0-2 pitches


The problem isn't adjustments, it's lack of stuff. Belisle does not have good enough to get many swings and pitches out of the zone, even on 2 strike counts.

His game is based on commanding the zone by locating the corners and getting ahead of hitters. To get K's in 2 strike counts he mainly needs to get the ball by a hitter in the strikezone. Because he is pretty good at hitting his spots he does get quite a few caught lookings as opposed to swinging K's. But he will always be susceptable to 2 strike hits because he needs to continue pitching in the strike zone.

The approach isn't holding him back. If he had the stuff to get swinging strikes out of the zone, then that's what he would do. And if he could do that then he would be the Reds second best pitcher. Your asking Belisle to pitch with a strategy that is opposite of his strengths. Different pitchers have different approaches depening on the level of skill.

[wheels]

I don't know if it's ever been brought up, but Angel Pagan has got to be one of the funniest names ever.

[Reds Fanatic]

Belisle strikes out swinging. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hatteberg walks.

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel grounds out to 1st as Lee makes a diving stop. Hatteberg goes to 2nd. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior strikes out swinging. 2-0 Cubs after 3.

[Spitball]

Belisle is awful on 0-2 pitches


Before today, this was Belisle's line on 0-2 pitches:

BA-.182
OBP-.190
SLG.-.253
OB/SLG-.443

[WVRedsFan]

Before today, this was Belisle's line on 0-2 pitches:

BA-.182
OBP-.190
SLG.-.253
OB/SLG-.443

Or not.

Joe said it best on the radio--he leaves too many pitches where hitters can handle them.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hill strikes out.
Zambrano singles to left for the 2nd time.

[Reds Fanatic]

Soriano grounds into a 5-4 fielder's choice. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Soriano steals 2nd.

[Reds Fanatic]

Theriot flies out to right. 2-0 Cubs mid 4th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips grounds out to short. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn grounds out to 2nd. 2 outs.

[smith288]

Seeing Zambrano strut around makes me want Belisle to bean him right in his knuckles.

[Reds Fanatic]

Keppinger flies out to right. 2-0 Cubs after 4.

[mbgrayson]

Pitches thrown after 4:

Belisle- 62 pitches, 43 strikes.
Zambrano- 65 pitches, 44 strikes

[Reds Fanatic]

What a first inning by the Padres today. They have scored 11 runs on 8 hits and are still batting against the Astros.

[Reds Fanatic]

Lee grounds out to 3rd. 1 out.

[nate]

What a first inning by the Padres today. They have scored 11 runs on 8 hits and are still batting against the Astros.

All against Jason Jennings, I believe.

[Reds Fanatic]

Ramirez flies out to the warning track in center. 2 outs.

[BCubb2003]

Belisle on his way to a quality start in spite of us.

[Reds Fanatic]

DeRosa grounds out to 3rd. 2-0 Cubs mid 5th.

[NJReds]

San Diego drops 11 runs on Houston and Jason Jennings in the top of the 1st.

[Matt700wlw]

Belisle on his way to a quality start in spite of us.

Stunning, actually.

He's settled down.


That does not change my opinion.

[Red in Chicago]

Belisle on his way to a quality start in spite of us.

and a little help from the umpiring crew:p:

[Patrick Bateman]

Belisle on his way to a quality start in spite of us.

Ever since I supported him.

He just needed some encouragement.

[Reds Fanatic]

Valentin lines out to right. 1 out.

[Matt700wlw]

What's going on?

[Matt700wlw]

That had to feel good....

[KronoRed]

Ever since I supported him.

He just needed some encouragement.

Encourage the O :D

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion pops out to 1st. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Belisle strikes out. 2-0 Cubs after 5.

[Tony Cloninger]

Remember the days when pitchers would be removed after about 4-5 runs and not getting an out...or maybe 1?

Now...more often than not.....they are left in there beacuse there is no such thing as a long man....or real swing man.

I remember in 1977 Tom Hume made his debut against SF and was bombed in the first..... 1/3 IP, 5 ER.

Paul Moskau was bombed against LA and could not get out of the 1st....might have been 1977 also.

I...Myself was bombed in 1/3 of an inning but came back 2 days later to SHO the Padres in 1969.

[Reds Fanatic]

Fontenot flies out to center. 1 out.

[KronoRed]

What a first inning by the Padres today. They have scored 11 runs on 8 hits and are still batting against the Astros.

Jennings ERA for the game a hefty 148.5

[Reds Fanatic]

Pagan walks.

[BCubb2003]

Jennings ERA for the game a hefty 148.5

How are his supporting stats?

[Patrick Bateman]

Encourage the O :D

Unfortunately that would be baseless encouragement.

It would be like trying to get Carlos Zambrano to shut his yap. We all know it isn't going to happen.

[NJReds]

How are his supporting stats?

BABIP unlucky today. :thumbup:

[Reds Fanatic]

Hill strikes out for the 3rd time today. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Zambrano grounds out to 3rd. 2-0 Cubs mid 6th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Hatteberg strikes out looking. 1 out.

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel grounds out on a ball off Zambrano's foot that goes right to Ramirez and he throws him out. 2 outs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior walks.

[Reds Fanatic]

Phillips fouls out to 1st. 2-0 Cubs after 6.

[Reds Fanatic]

Soriano singles to center.

[Matt700wlw]

There goes the quality start....

[Reds Fanatic]

There goes this game. Lee homers to right. 4-0 Cubs.

[Red in Chicago]

9 hits in 6 1/3 innings. Typical gem by Matt

[Matt700wlw]

9 hits in 6 1/3 innings. Typical gem by Matt

Time to move on....put him in the bullpen, see if he can do better there.

[CTA513]

Santos replaces Matt Lohse.

[Matt700wlw]

Matt Lohse

Kyle Belisle

[Red in Chicago]

I realize this is Zambrano they're facing today, but 1 run scored in the last 15 innings is very sad.

[Reds Fanatic]

Fontenot strikes out to end the inning. 4-0 Cubs mid 7th.

[Reds Fanatic]

Dunn pops out to short.
Keppinger grounds out to 3rd.
Valentin with a bloop hit to center. Only the 2nd Reds hit today.

[Reds Fanatic]

Encarnacion strikes out swinging. 4-0 Cubs after 7.

[Patrick Bateman]

Time to move on....put him in the bullpen, see if he can do better there.

Who do the Reds have that projects to do better right now?

Remember with Lohse going out you need to find 2 guys who project to do better right now.

Also, are you so sure that he will not be a decent back-end starter when there is evidence that suggests that if not for some factors he can't control he would be havign a decent season?

Considering the alternatives, there better be zero doubt in your mind, because the other choices are likely to be even worse.

[Tom Servo]

I hate the Cubs.

[Reds Fanatic]

Zambrano gets his 3rd hit today.

[CTA513]

Santos should have thrown up and in to Zambrano.

[BCubb2003]

His batting average against is almost lower than his batting average.

[Tony Cloninger]

Anyone who thinks EE will not sit more often than not when AG comes back......will be wrong and will have nothing to really complain about. I know the guy is working on things but it is not working for him at all right now. Still trying to pull everything.

The same thing should go for Freel when Hamilton comes back.
Heck sit him now for Hopper.

Matt was not that bad today after the 1st 2 innings.......and you do not have other options barring a nice return in a trade.

[CTA513]

Anyone who thinks EE will not sit more often than not when AG comes back......will be wrong and will have nothing to really complain about. I know the guy is working on things but it is not working for him at all right now. Still trying to pull everything.

The same thing should go for Freel when Hamilton comes back.
Heck sit him now for Hopper.

Matt was not that bad today after the 1st 2 innings.......and you do not have other options barring a nice return in a trade.

Freel will keep on playing and hit near the top of the lineup.

[Reds Fanatic]

Zambrano is leaving possibly injured.

[Reds Fanatic]

Freel reaches on an error by Theriot. Actually they are calling it a single for Freel.

[Falls City Beer]

Just watching both of these teams back to back--there is no question that the Cubs are the better of the two teams (cf. the Brewers)--in virtually every quadrant (better relievers, better starters, better defense, similar offenses).

And the Reds have gotten spanked the last two days--they may not seem like blowouts when you look at the scoreboard, but the Cubs have been executing everything while the Reds have played at their best; the Cubs are just a lot better.

[Reds Fanatic]

Junior grounds out to 3rd. 4-0 Cubs after 8.

[NJReds]

Houston has a 7 run inning...13-8 Padres lead.

[Tom Servo]

I knew Tom and Chris talking up Burton was the kiss of death for him in this outing.

[Falls City Beer]

I knew Tom and Chris talking up Burton was the kiss of death for him in this outing.

For whatever reason, guys like Burton and Salmon get confused for steak when they're nothing but sizzle. Their pitches look neat, but if you can't locate, see ya.

[RBA]

!spaC yllaR ruoy tuo teG

[RBA]

Reds TV thinks this wil be Dunns last at bat at the GAB.

[VR]

All against Jason Jennings, I believe.

Still can't believe we didn't trade Homer and Votto for him when we had the chance.

[Matt700wlw]

Reds TV thinks this wil be Dunns last at bat at the GAB.

Interesting thought....

[RBA]

Of course that's as a Red.

[Falls City Beer]

Still can't believe we didn't trade Homer and Votto for him when we had the chance.

He's pitching injured.

[RBA]

Dunn pops out.

Maybe they should of traded him to the Cubs before the series.

[VR]

He's pitching injured.

So he's bad and stupid?

[Falls City Beer]

So he's bad and stupid?

Some can do it, depending on the severity of the injury (cf. Everyday Eddie, Jake Peavy).

[Ltlabner]

Wow. What a grade-A dull game. Got back from the ballpark where I spend most of the day fighting from dozing off.

A totally lackluster day at the ballpark.

The only positive outcome of the day was that we sat next to a young couple that were Cubs fans. When they first sat down I thought "oh joy" but they were quiet, knowledgeable about baseball and respectfull.

[WVRedsFan]

Wow. What a grade-A dull game. Got back from the ballpark where I spend most of the day fighting from dozing off.

A totally lackluster day at the ballpark.

The only positive outcome of the day was that we sat next to a young couple that were Cubs fans. When they first sat down I thought "oh joy" but they were quiet, knowledgeable about baseball and respectfull.

You think it was bad at the ballpark, you should have been watching on TV. I did fall asleep! Since I didn't go to Indianapolis this year, I thought the race would wake me up, but no. It was a bigger snoozer. I finally gave up and took a nap. Not a good day.