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MississippiRed
08-01-2007, 04:48 PM
Reds Lineup:

Hopper cf
Keppinger ss
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Conine 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Ross c
Arroyo p

Has everyone given up? I never start a game thread.

Nats lineup:

Lopez ss
Belliard 2b
Zimmerman 3b
Young 1b
Kearns rf
Church lf
Schneider c
Logan cf
Lannan lhp

Heath
08-01-2007, 04:51 PM
Reds Lineup:

Hopper cf
Keppinger ss
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Conine 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Ross c
Arroyo p

Has everyone given up? I never start a game thread.


I think it just got posted by Trent.

Given up is Jeff Keppinger, everyday SS.

KronoRed
08-01-2007, 04:56 PM
I'd like to see something daring, EE leading off :D

MississippiRed
08-01-2007, 04:56 PM
I think it just got posted by Trent.

Given up is Jeff Keppinger, everyday SS.

Yeah, I thought Gonzalez was due back in the lineup today.

nate
08-01-2007, 05:12 PM
I'd like to see something daring, EE leading off :D

Daring is Chad Moeller leading off.

Or Javy playing short.

WVRedsFan
08-01-2007, 05:37 PM
Facing a new lefty they haven't seen before and playing Hopper in CF and Keppinger at short is almost giving up.

The pitcher we face has a reported 8.31 ERA in 4 1/3 innings this year. He'll probably throw a no-hitter tonight.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 05:39 PM
Facing a new lefty they haven't seen before and playing Hopper in CF and Keppinger at short is almost giving up.

The pitcher we face has a reported 8.31 ERA in 4 1/3 innings this year. He'll probably throw a no-hitter tonight.

What's wrong with Keppinger?

redsfan30
08-01-2007, 05:49 PM
I think it just got posted by Trent.

Given up is Jeff Keppinger, everyday SS.

Yeah because Keppinger obviously hasn't earned his playing time.....

WVRedsFan
08-01-2007, 06:00 PM
What's wrong with Keppinger?

Nothing. Just thought I'd pile on. :)

Seriously, I thought Gonzo was back in town. Isn't he the answer at shortstop? Or am I wrong?

westofyou
08-01-2007, 06:19 PM
Facing a new lefty they haven't seen before and playing Hopper in CF and Keppinger at short is almost giving up.

The pitcher we face has a reported 8.31 ERA in 4 1/3 innings this year. He'll probably throw a no-hitter tonight.

And if it was Freel you'd say?

Hopper vs LH

.323/.344/.419

Keppinger vs LH

.368/.455/.421

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 06:33 PM
Is it just me or is the speaking and moving lips on Reds Live really off.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 07:02 PM
John Lannan

Will Yoka Ona be by his side?

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:07 PM
Wow, a very rare Error on Zimmerman

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:08 PM
Hopper to Zimmerman. CLANK!

Rem

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:09 PM
Not the best of bunts by the Kepper but it got the job done. Norris to second, 1 out.

Rem

CTA513
08-01-2007, 07:10 PM
Giving up outs is cool.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 07:10 PM
What goes through this team's head?

CTA513
08-01-2007, 07:11 PM
Giving up 2 outs in one innings is super cool.

flyer85
08-01-2007, 07:11 PM
2 outs, both given to the nats

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:11 PM
OK. Hopper gets picked off of 2nd to put the Reds into a bases empty situation and two outs instead of runner in scoring position for Jr. with only 1 out. Nice job, Norris.

Rem

CTA513
08-01-2007, 07:12 PM
2 outs, both given to the nats

That is what we know as Reds baseball.

Stormy
08-01-2007, 07:12 PM
Martys right, guys like Hopper and Freel really make things happen out there. ;) Of course they mostly make outs happen at the plate, and on the basepaths, but it's an exciting variety of outs. I'm afraid Wayne would like far more Hopper/Freel types, and far fewer guys like Dunn.

Uneventful 1st for the Reds 0-0

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:13 PM
Jr. grounds out. Going to the bottom of the first.

Rem

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:15 PM
FeLo doubles on the first pitch by Bronson.

Rem

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:16 PM
GO to second moves FeLo to 3rd. 1 Out, Zimmerman out.

Rem

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:17 PM
Zimmerman walks. 1st & 3rd, Da Meet up.

Rem

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:18 PM
Single up the middle. Nats 1, Reds 0.

Rem

CTA513
08-01-2007, 07:19 PM
The Nationals forgot to bunt.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 07:21 PM
This is going well...

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:22 PM
Ears doubles to left center. 1 run scores. Runners on 2nd and 3rd. 1 out.

Rem

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:22 PM
Kearns still cannot hold onto the bat though.

Duh Kearns and Lopez will kill us. Majewski and Bray would kill the Nationals too, too bad they're in AAA.

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:23 PM
The nats are pretty well pounding Arroyo.

Rem

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 07:23 PM
He's not going to survive the 1st inning...

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:24 PM
Church singles. Two runs score. Nats 4, Reds 0. Runner on first, 1 out.

Rem

MrCinatit
08-01-2007, 07:26 PM
So, we are getting brutalized by the murderer's row known as the Washington Nationals.
Nice. Looks like this team has once again decided to hit cruise control.

Chip R
08-01-2007, 07:26 PM
I've seen this act before. How many pitches did Bronson throw on Friday?

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 07:26 PM
What was Bronson's pitch count that last game? :confused::(

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:27 PM
Schneider puts the ball off the upper deck---but foul! Next pitch he puts Jr. on the track for an out. Two gone.

Rem

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 07:28 PM
123 that's what it was! :thumbdown oddly enough he cannot now get a 1-2-3!

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:28 PM
Nats announcers speculating that Arroyo is tipping his pitches.

Rem

flyer85
08-01-2007, 07:28 PM
IIRC, Bronson went over 120 pitches in his last start

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 07:28 PM
I've seen this act before. How many pitches did Bronson throw on Friday?

Too many

11larkin11
08-01-2007, 07:28 PM
Seriously, our pitchers need to have a pitch count. No more than 100 pitches. I'd rather not kill Bronson and Aaron even if our BP blows.

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:29 PM
Logan singles to center. Runners on 1st and 2nd. Two out.

Rem

CTA513
08-01-2007, 07:29 PM
To quote Jeff Brantley: "You can't throw the ball with your right hand if your right hand is on your throat. You can't do both."

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 07:29 PM
86 MPH FB?

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:31 PM
EdE bobbles the grounder to him but recovers and tags third base for the 3rd out.

That extension for BA is looking good, huh.

Rem

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 07:32 PM
86 MPH FB?

That won't get it done...

remdog
08-01-2007, 07:32 PM
Gotta go for awhile. Anyone else want to pick up the PBP?

Rem

Tom Servo
08-01-2007, 07:35 PM
Just got in to see the Nats hung a four spot on Bronson in the first. Ugh. Felipe Lopez is a bonafide Reds killer.

dougdirt
08-01-2007, 07:39 PM
I am just glad we played for 1 run in the first inning......

flyer85
08-01-2007, 07:40 PM
...a bonafide Reds killer.there seem to be a lot of those

Tom Servo
08-01-2007, 07:41 PM
there seem to be a lot of those
Usually it's about 2 hitters and a starter on every NL team...

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 07:44 PM
Note to Reds managers....QUIT PITCHING ARROYO 125-130 PITCHES IN AN OUTING

flyer85
08-01-2007, 07:47 PM
no reason to leave bronson out there, bring in Gosling or EZ

redsrule2500
08-01-2007, 07:47 PM
Note to Reds managers....QUIT PITCHING ARROYO 125-130 PITCHES IN AN OUTING

If we don't, we lose that game.
At least this way we get 1 outta 2 :p:

Cyclone792
08-01-2007, 07:49 PM
I know it's been mentioned, but I'll mention it again ... it's like clockwork with Bronson Arroyo. When Reds managers leave him in games for an extended outing that nears or exceeds 120 pitches, Arroyo becomes ineffective for a certain period afterward.

This isn't Arroyo's fault even one percent. It's 100 percent the fault of the Reds' manager.

Sooner or later, the bouts of ineffectiveness will lengthen, and eventually it may land him on the DL with perhaps a serious injury. Narron and Narron Jr. (Mackanin) obviously have been unable to figure this out.

Speaking of Narron Jr. (Mackanin), he should be as good as gone this offseason as far as I'm concerned. Anybody watching tonight's game and knowing how much Arroyo was extended in his last start should know exactly why.

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 07:50 PM
Why isn't Bronson on the Braves already;)

The guy is a 100 pitch pitcher. Yet, they don't get that.

alloverjr
08-01-2007, 07:51 PM
no reason to leave bronson out there, bring in Gosling or EZ

Why subject the rest of the team and us to Gosling? Try EZ. As I type I notice Gosling up. Good lord.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 07:52 PM
You all should go find something productive to do, tonight...don't put yourself through this.

alloverjr
08-01-2007, 07:52 PM
AK! Wow!

Joseph
08-01-2007, 07:52 PM
I know we are a bad team, but losing to this team is reallllllllly bad.

letsgojunior
08-01-2007, 07:53 PM
Good evening everyone.

redsfan4445
08-01-2007, 07:54 PM
isnt it wild EX-REDS are kicking the current REDS butts?? Young and Kearns Homeruns in the 2nd!

CrackerJack
08-01-2007, 07:54 PM
Well Dunn's parents are watching tonight since George is broadcasting, and they're probably getting as used to this "playing out the string" time of year as we have for what seems like eternity now.

Maybe Bronson found a Match.com local date tonight and wanted to get out of the park early.

edabbs44
08-01-2007, 07:55 PM
If a 120 pitch outing can do this to Arroyo 100% of the time, then that flat out sucks. Front of the rotation guys sometimes have to go a little further. Especially with the bullpen from hell.

Stormy
08-01-2007, 07:55 PM
With Harang missing a few starts, it just might get real ugly over the next few weeks, even playing a weak part of the schedule. Of course, a last place GM who stands pat at this juncture, expecting he's only a few minor adjustments away... pretty much deserves to witness this type of spectacle. I think the new manager smell has officially worn off, and I actually like Pete Mac's personality.

MrCinatit
08-01-2007, 07:56 PM
Only two grand slams away from taking the lead.

flyer85
08-01-2007, 07:58 PM
I know we are a bad team, but losing to this team is reallllllllly bad.I'd have to say the Nats are the better team. Better record in a much tougher division.

Joseph
08-01-2007, 07:58 PM
If a 120 pitch outing can do this to Arroyo 100% of the time, then that flat out sucks. Front of the rotation guys sometimes have to go a little further. Especially with the bullpen from hell.

To use the most horrible cliche of the moment, it is what it is....

The problem isn't as much that it happens to him as it is that the Reds apparently don't know it and keeping CAUSING it to happen by allowing him to throw that many.

I mean he basically needs to be pulled at 100 or so pitches, doesn't matter how well he's going, or how big the lead is. Pull him. Simple math.

Aronchis
08-01-2007, 08:00 PM
If a 120 pitch outing can do this to Arroyo 100% of the time, then that flat out sucks. Front of the rotation guys sometimes have to go a little further. Especially with the bullpen from hell.

Which is why the "Arroyo" rumors swirled. Though I bet the Reds asked for Hanson and Jones included with Escobar and Reyes which caused them to blink. It will be interesting if Arroyo is dealt in the Augest wavier period.

edabbs44
08-01-2007, 08:02 PM
To use the most horrible cliche of the moment, it is what it is....

The problem isn't as much that it happens to him as it is that the Reds apparently don't know it and keeping CAUSING it to happen by allowing him to throw that many.

I mean he basically needs to be pulled at 100 or so pitches, doesn't matter how well he's going, or how big the lead is. Pull him. Simple math.

Agreed 100%.

remdog
08-01-2007, 08:02 PM
If a 120 pitch outing can do this to Arroyo 100% of the time, then that flat out sucks. Front of the rotation guys sometimes have to go a little further. Especially with the bullpen from hell.

Yeppers. Of course, much of this was noted upon the aquisition of Bronson but he fooled many of us (including me and Wayne) with last years performance. (shrug)

Of course, where Wayne and I differ is giving him an extention but that's water under the brige....

The good part of this is that the Reds are making a run at the #1 draft pick....:rolleyes:

Rem

edabbs44
08-01-2007, 08:03 PM
Wandy Rodriguez and Braden Looper are doing their best to unseat Arroyo as pitching disaster of the night.

M2
08-01-2007, 08:05 PM
Boy, I saw Arroyo vs. Lannan for tonight's matchup and I was feeling pretty confident.

Let me guess, Bronson couldn't find his locations tonight?

Stormy, is Harang nursing something?

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 08:07 PM
Boy, I saw Arroyo vs. Lannan for tonight's matchup and I was feeling pretty confident.

Let me guess, Bronson couldn't find his locations tonight?



Arroyo had nothing on anything. No velocity, no location, no movement.

HumnHilghtFreel
08-01-2007, 08:13 PM
If Wayne really was standing pat just to get Pete the job longterm, it sure isn't working in day 1, post-deadline.

flyer85
08-01-2007, 08:16 PM
Jr has swung at ball 4 two abs in a row.

Stormy
08-01-2007, 08:16 PM
Boy, I saw Arroyo vs. Lannan for tonight's matchup and I was feeling pretty confident.

Let me guess, Bronson couldn't find his locations tonight?

Stormy, is Harang nursing something?

Harang has been going through episodes of back spasms, and hopefully there's nothing more to it than that. When Arroyo suffers through bouts of ineffectiveness, this team pretty much reverts to having 1 pitcher you can rely upon for a quality start (and now Harang's a bit beaten up).

You nailed it on Arroyo, M2. It may be correlation rather than causality but it certainly resembles the troubles he went through after the high pitch tolls in late May. Yes, his control was decidedly off (especially in just hitting his locations), his fastball was missing a few ticks, and his offspeed stuff stayed up. That's almost always Bronson's recipe for disaster, eh?

Joseph
08-01-2007, 08:18 PM
Two stolen bases?

CrackerJack
08-01-2007, 08:19 PM
Well, Brandon Phillips is still worth watching at least....

Cyclone792
08-01-2007, 08:19 PM
Brandon Phillips showed us a flashing of Ty Cobb on that play. That was beautiful.

Kc61
08-01-2007, 08:19 PM
Arroyo had nothing on anything. No velocity, no location, no movement.

Arroyo needs a strengthening program or something. Whatever, I still have hope that with a savvy manager next year, using him properly, Arroyo can rebound.

Not that the FO cares, but I think it failed the fans terribly by sitting still yesterday. Frankly, I don't care what the offers were, sitting still was the worst thing they could do.

At minimum, they should have traded some vets, opened salary space, and promoted some younger players with the open roster spots. Instead, the worst team in the worse league sat still.

I'll watch occasionally, but I hope the new ownership understands that they aren't giving the fans anything to watch. I'd rather see a young, bad team with some prospects than this group.

Nice baserunning by Phillips. Maybe he can steal 28 bases and get the 7 runs back.

MrCinatit
08-01-2007, 08:19 PM
Nice SB by Phillips - the shift bites the Nationals in the butt...though it does not matter in the end.
Very unique play.

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 08:20 PM
GG said it was only 1 SB, how could that be??? At any rate that was flat out amazing! Prime-Time :D

flyer85
08-01-2007, 08:21 PM
BTW, supposedly they measurement at RFK last year and the stated distances are 10-15 short all the way around.

HumnHilghtFreel
08-01-2007, 08:22 PM
Phillips got himself to the 20-20 plateau there. I look forward to watching his run at becoming a 30-30 guy.

remdog
08-01-2007, 08:22 PM
Pretty heads up play by Brandon. Caught the Nats in the shift and took advantage of it. Not a play that everyone can make (you have to be sure you can outrun the remaining infielder on the left side) but Brandon made it work against Zimmerman.

About the only plus thing we've seen by the Reds tonight.

Rem

Stormy
08-01-2007, 08:22 PM
Jr has swung at ball 4 two abs in a row.


Jr has been aswinging the bat about as poorly since the All-Star Break as he has during any injury free period I can recall. 12-of-66 for a .181AVG, and only 3EBH in that span. Thank heavens he's continued to take a walk during that span.

How about that Brandon Phillips, an agression that's completely the opposite of Freel and Hopper's recklessness on the basepaths.

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 08:22 PM
GG said it was only 1 SB, how could that be??? At any rate that was flat out amazing! Prime-Time :D

Yeah, why wouldn't that be 2 SB's? If you look in the scorebook, he obviously takes 2nd on a SB. How do you score how he gets to 3rd? I would think that it has to be a SB.

Patrick Bateman
08-01-2007, 08:23 PM
If a 120 pitch outing can do this to Arroyo 100% of the time, then that flat out sucks. Front of the rotation guys sometimes have to go a little further. Especially with the bullpen from hell.

He did throw 240 innings last season and led baseball in pitches. It's an ability he did have and should have.

This isn't an Arroyo thing. It's a Narron thing. He can't go a little further because him arm has been pushed too much.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 08:23 PM
If Wayne really was standing pat just to get Pete the job longterm, it sure isn't working in day 1, post-deadline.

14-12 after today, if my math is correct...

under .500 since the AS break.

MrCinatit
08-01-2007, 08:24 PM
Arroyo needs a strengthening program or something. Whatever, I still have hope that with a savvy manager next year, using him properly, Arroyo can rebound.

Not that the FO cares, but I think it failed the fans terribly by sitting still yesterday. Frankly, I don't care what the offers were, sitting still was the worst thing they could do.

At minimum, they should have traded some vets, opened salary space, and promoted some younger players with the open roster spots. Instead, the worst team in the worse league sat still.

I'll watch occasionally, but I hope the new ownership understands that they aren't giving the fans anything to watch. I'd rather see a young, bad team with some prospects than this group.

Nice baserunning by Phillips. Maybe he can steal 28 bases and get the 7 runs back.

It is my opinion that Wayne will only make the easy moves for now on. Trading Lohse was an easy move. Picking up Cantu was an easy move.
Even most of the moves he made in the past were easy - picking up a guy who was DFA'd by another team is a very easy move. The only tough move that I can think of in his history - "the trade" - did not work. Even trading for Arroyo was an easy move.
Those expecting any razzle-dazzle Howsamesque moves full of risk and potential reward will be sorely disappointed with Wayne, me thinks.

lollipopcurve
08-01-2007, 08:25 PM
You have to give Phillips 2 SBs on that play. That play may never have happened before -- come on official scorer, you must seize this moment to make baseball history.

Phillips brings something, I tell you that.

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 08:25 PM
Jr has been aswinging the bat about as poorly since the All-Star Break as he has during any injury free period I can recall. 12-of-66 for a .181AVG, and only 3EBH in that span. Thank heavens he's continued to take a walk during that span.

How about that Brandon Phillips, an agression that's completely the opposite of Freel and Hopper's recklessness on the basepaths.

There have been a couple of times this season that Brandon's aggressiveness (not recklessness at all) on the basepaths has reminded me of another Reds 2B, from about 30-35 years ago.

Cyclone792
08-01-2007, 08:25 PM
Pretty heads up play by Brandon. Caught the Nats in the shift and took advantage of it. Not a play that everyone can make (you have to be sure you can outrun the remaining infielder on the left side) but Brandon made it work against Zimmerman.

About the only plus thing we've seen by the Reds tonight.

Rem

Ty Cobb used to go first to third on sacrifice bunts in a similar fashion. If the ball was bunted so that the third baseman had to field it, Cobb would just round second at full speed and beat every infielder to the third base bag. IIRC, it was these feats by Cobb that forced catchers to now run up to cover third base on similar plays. I believe Derek Jeter's shoulder injury from a few seasons ago was a result of a similar play as he slid hard into a catcher covering third base.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 08:27 PM
There have been a couple of times this season that Brandon's aggressiveness (not recklessness at all) on the basepaths has reminded me of another Reds 2B, from about 30-35 years ago.

Something about a Chicken Wing....

redsfan4445
08-01-2007, 08:30 PM
this was on John Fays blog...

"Very interesting

Remember, that talk about Adam Dunn being traded to the Nationals? I've been told the deal was pretty far along when the Nationals pulled the plug on it.

No explanation was given why. But here’s one theory I heard: Jim Bowden never intended to do make a deal. He just strung the Reds along to waste their time. The Reds do still have a grievance pending against the Nationals over the Gary Majewksi episode."

MrCinatit
08-01-2007, 08:32 PM
this was on John Fays blog...

"Very interesting

Remember, that talk about Adam Dunn being traded to the Nationals? I've been told the deal was pretty far along when the Nationals pulled the plug on it.

No explanation was given why. But here’s one theory I heard: Jim Bowden never intended to do make a deal. He just strung the Reds along to waste their time. The Reds do still have a grievance pending against the Nationals over the Gary Majewksi episode."

With Bowden, that would not surprise me a bit

letsgojunior
08-01-2007, 08:33 PM
this was on John Fays blog...

"Very interesting

Remember, that talk about Adam Dunn being traded to the Nationals? I've been told the deal was pretty far along when the Nationals pulled the plug on it.

No explanation was given why. But here’s one theory I heard: Jim Bowden never intended to do make a deal. He just strung the Reds along to waste their time. The Reds do still have a grievance pending against the Nationals over the Gary Majewksi episode."

I wouldn't put it past JimBo to be vindictive or conniving. Nevertheless, I would imagine that, like Kearns and Lopez, he'd love to have Dunn back.

M2
08-01-2007, 08:33 PM
It may be correlation rather than causality but it certainly resembles the troubles he went through after the high pitch tolls in late May. Yes, his control was decidedly off (especially in just hitting his locations), his fastball was missing a few ticks, and his offspeed stuff stayed up. That's almost always Bronson's recipe for disaster, eh?

The nice thing with that is it's curable. Just don't ride him so hard and he should be effective. I think that Japanese tour on the heels of 240 IP took some starch out of Bronson. He needs a full offseason to recuperate.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 08:35 PM
Lizard pitching...Belhorn replaces Edwin at 3rd

Chip R
08-01-2007, 08:39 PM
You have to give Phillips 2 SBs on that play. That play may never have happened before -- come on official scorer, you must seize this moment to make baseball history.

Phillips brings something, I tell you that.


Chris and George are speculating it might be scored as a FC and an SB. How can it be a FC? What choice did the fielder have? :confused:

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 08:42 PM
Chris and George are speculating it might be scored as a FC and an SB. How can it be a FC? What choice did the fielder have? :confused:

I guess Zim chose to be slower than Brandon.

edabbs44
08-01-2007, 08:43 PM
this was on John Fays blog...

"Very interesting

Remember, that talk about Adam Dunn being traded to the Nationals? I've been told the deal was pretty far along when the Nationals pulled the plug on it.

No explanation was given why. But here’s one theory I heard: Jim Bowden never intended to do make a deal. He just strung the Reds along to waste their time. The Reds do still have a grievance pending against the Nationals over the Gary Majewksi episode."

That's why, after last season, you don't deal with Bowden ever again. Would you go back to a car salesman or stock broker after they screwed you over?

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 08:43 PM
Bellhorn is using Arroyo's helmet?

TOBTTReds
08-01-2007, 08:45 PM
Edwin pulled...is he hurt....or traded???

Tom Servo
08-01-2007, 08:45 PM
Long live the Lizard King.

Kc61
08-01-2007, 08:45 PM
It is my opinion that Wayne will only make the easy moves for now on. Trading Lohse was an easy move. Picking up Cantu was an easy move.
Even most of the moves he made in the past were easy - picking up a guy who was DFA'd by another team is a very easy move. The only tough move that I can think of in his history - "the trade" - did not work. Even trading for Arroyo was an easy move.
Those expecting any razzle-dazzle Howsamesque moves full of risk and potential reward will be sorely disappointed with Wayne, me thinks.

I don't expect creativity at this point; just some forward progress. I find it unbelievable that Castellini and Krivsky aren't willing to do anything bold -- in any direction -- to change a last place team.

Cast and Krivksy lost me yesterday. They don't sign free agents or trade for "win now" major players. They don't trade to stockpile prospects. Team is on a slow train to nowhere IMO.

HumnHilghtFreel
08-01-2007, 08:47 PM
Edwin pulled...is he hurt....or traded???

I was wondering the same thing. If not, then I see no good reason to pull him.

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 08:48 PM
Edwin pulled...is he hurt....or traded???

The Reds made a double-switch so that Ramirez could pitch more than one inning. (The #9 spot led off this inning.) Mack didn't want to make the double-switch with Ross in the #8 spot, since the Reds are carrying only two catchers. So the double-switch happened in the #7 spot, which happened to be Encarnacion.

Kc61
08-01-2007, 08:48 PM
I was wondering the same thing. If not, then I see no good reason to pull him.

Probably removed EE as punishment because Arroyo had a bad night.

mbgrayson
08-01-2007, 08:51 PM
this was on John Fays blog...

"Very interesting

Remember, that talk about Adam Dunn being traded to the Nationals? I've been told the deal was pretty far along when the Nationals pulled the plug on it.

No explanation was given why. But here’s one theory I heard: Jim Bowden never intended to do make a deal. He just strung the Reds along to waste their time. The Reds do still have a grievance pending against the Nationals over the Gary Majewksi episode."

I wondered about the flip-side of this....that maybe nobody would deal with the Reds because of the grievance looking like sour grapes after last year's trade....

If leather pants did do this to us this year, one would think the Reds should have known better. "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...." PFC Gomer Pyle

TOBTTReds
08-01-2007, 08:51 PM
Probably removed EE as punishment because Arroyo had a bad night.

True. This made me think...in order to be traded post deadline, you have to clear waivers and I doubt you can clear waivers in a day. So nevermind.

pedro
08-01-2007, 08:52 PM
Probably removed EE as punishment because Arroyo had a bad night.

or the fact that he's sucked all year.

although nobody here will address that elephant in the room.

mbgrayson
08-01-2007, 08:54 PM
or the fact that he's sucked all year.

Who is that? Arroyo or EE? Or both??

HumnHilghtFreel
08-01-2007, 08:55 PM
or the fact that he's sucked all year.

although nobody here will address that elephant in the room.

Yeah, Bellhorn could definitely use the At Bats more to work things out, he has a bright future here.

TOBTTReds
08-01-2007, 08:59 PM
or the fact that he's sucked all year.

although nobody here will address that elephant in the room.

I think we know he has struggled this year. but we also know these things:

He is young
Produced well last year, so it is in there
Still developing
We have ZERO other 3B on this team that can play
He is turning into a stud defensively
He gets treated like a 4 year old with an glass in his hand...if he miss uses it at all, it gets taken away for a few days.

pedro
08-01-2007, 08:59 PM
Yeah, Bellhorn could definitely use the At Bats more to work things out, he has a bright future here.

I'm not sold that EE has a bright future anywhere.

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 09:00 PM
Yeah, Bellhorn could definitely use the At Bats more to work things out, he has a bright future here.

Maybe you didn't see my suggested explanation. I seriously doubt that there is a conspiracy.


The Reds made a double-switch so that Ramirez could pitch more than one inning. (The #9 spot led off this inning.) Mack didn't want to make the double-switch with Ross in the #8 spot, since the Reds are carrying only two catchers. So the double-switch happened in the #7 spot, which happened to be Encarnacion.

pedro
08-01-2007, 09:01 PM
I think we know he has struggled this year. but we also know these things:

He is young
Produced well last year, so it is in there
Still developing
We have ZERO other 3B on this team that can play
He is turning into a stud defensively
He gets treated like a 4 year old with an glass in his hand...if he miss uses it at all, it gets taken away for a few days.

he also gets more leeway on RZ than any p-layer I've ever seen. at some point HE has to be accountable for how poorly he's played.

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 09:07 PM
Per GG, Elias Sports Bureau says it's 2 SB's for BP! :thumbup:

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 09:08 PM
Per GG, Elias Sports Bureau says it's 2 SB's for BP! :thumbup:

As well it should be. Honestly, I don't see what the controversy was--it seemed like an obvious scoring decision to me.

Mario-Rijo
08-01-2007, 09:10 PM
As well it should be. Honestly, I don't see what the controversy was--it seemed like an obvious scoring decision to me.

Oh yeah, how could it possibly be anything else?!!

traderumor
08-01-2007, 09:11 PM
Nats announcers speculating that Arroyo is tipping his pitches.

RemYou know, I'm not seeing FeLo as having the highest baseball IQ and Dmitri has been gone awhile, but something smells funny that the Nats offense is just punishing Reds pitching in both series now yet cannot do anything against the rest of the league. I know the Reds pitching is awful, and I rarely explore conspiracy theories, but that was my first thought when I just came in and see they shelled Arroyo. I would buy the high pitch count in previous start, but I have a feeling the Nats have a tip.

Chip R
08-01-2007, 09:12 PM
Per GG, Elias Sports Bureau says it's 2 SB's for BP! :thumbup:


I wonder if that ever happened before?

Cyclone792
08-01-2007, 09:14 PM
I wonder if that ever happened before?

I'm guessing it has, though it wouldn't shock me if one has to go back over 80 years to find it. The Dead Ball Era, and the 1890s before it, was a certain style that provided the brand of baseball for that play to possibly happen occasionally.

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 09:16 PM
Elizardo Ramirez with a nice two-inning stint in what might be a possible tuneup for a start on Saturday (should Harang not be available against the Pirates).

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 09:17 PM
Zim airmailed that one!

D-Man
08-01-2007, 09:20 PM
That dribbler to end the inning is a great metaphor for the Reds' 2007 season.

remdog
08-01-2007, 09:21 PM
this was on John Fays blog...

"Very interesting

Remember, that talk about Adam Dunn being traded to the Nationals? I've been told the deal was pretty far along when the Nationals pulled the plug on it.

No explanation was given why. But here’s one theory I heard: Jim Bowden never intended to do make a deal. He just strung the Reds along to waste their time. The Reds do still have a grievance pending against the Nationals over the Gary Majewksi episode."

If that's what happened (though I doubt it) then :clap: for Jimbo. So far he's shown that he's smarter than the Krivsky and, while that doesn't seem to be a big accomplishment, it does illustrate how far the Reds have fallen.

Rem

Big Klu
08-01-2007, 09:29 PM
Here's a question--did the Reds keep the wrong 1B about six or seven years ago when they kept Sean Casey instead of Dmitri Young? I really liked both of them, but it's scary to think what D-Train could do at GABP.

HumnHilghtFreel
08-01-2007, 09:36 PM
:laugh: Robert Fick is having a bad day.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 09:38 PM
:laugh: Robert Fick is having a bad day.

He looks like he's never played first base before...

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 09:41 PM
King heads back to the dugout as Austin Kearns goes and hides

puca
08-01-2007, 09:41 PM
I'm not sold that EE has a bright future anywhere.

Nor should you be. He still has a lot to prove. But seeing as he probably has little trade value and since there are no other in-house options with even a chance of a bright future, you keep running him out there and hope he finds his bat again.

Most players who make the majors at 22 years old because of their bat, have at least a few productive years ahead of them. He wouldn't be the first 24 year old to struggle in the major leagues.

Chip R
08-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Here's a question--did the Reds keep the wrong 1B about six or seven years ago when they kept Sean Casey instead of Dmitri Young? I really liked both of them, but it's scary to think what D-Train could do at GABP.


They had Konerko too even before that. I thought they should have shopped all three but they anointed Casey as the 1B. Although we got Mike Cameron for Konerko, a trade a lot of Reds fans, including myself, did not like at the time.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 09:50 PM
They had Konerko too even before that. I thought they should have shopped all three but they anointed Casey as the 1B. Although we got Mike Cameron for Konerko, a trade a lot of Reds fans, including myself, did not like at the time.

Of course Cameron later became a component of the Griffey trade...

HumnHilghtFreel
08-01-2007, 09:50 PM
Nor should you be. He still has a lot to prove. But seeing as he probably has little trade value and since there are no other in-house options with even a chance of a bright future, you keep running him out there and hope he finds his bat again.

Most players who make the majors at 22 years old because of their bat, have at least a few productive years ahead of them. He wouldn't be the first 24 year old to struggle in the major leagues.

This is, more or less, what I was going for.

I'm not saying I'm convinced one way or the other on EE, but he still has youth on his side. We're not in contention this year, so I see no reason not to get him as many AB's as possible. Freel/Bellhorn/whomever else should only be starting at third to occasionally spell him, or if he's injured, IMO.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-01-2007, 09:53 PM
Here's a question--did the Reds keep the wrong 1B about six or seven years ago when they kept Sean Casey instead of Dmitri Young? I really liked both of them, but it's scary to think what D-Train could do at GABP.

I think so. I remember I was pretty vocal back then about keeping Da Meathook over Casey.

Since then, Young has had a few down years, but overall, I liked what he brought to the table and he would have been cheaper than Sean.

Matt700wlw
08-01-2007, 10:04 PM
That is that.

7-2 Nationals..the Reds have beaten them once this season, and have lost another series.


So glad they stood pat.

Matt700wlw
08-02-2007, 08:21 PM
The Mackanin "magical lift" is over.




As expected, of course.