Juice and Mechanical help? (Bonds)

[Cicero]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003621797

I thought this was an interesting article.

[big boy]

Very impressive article. Thanks for posting.

[Betterread]

Thanks for posting the article on SD. I think the rationale in this article is sound. Why has Bonds been allowed to so extensively modify his protective equipment?

[AtomicDumpling]

Interesting article.

I think the arm guard has nothing to do with the "mechanics of the swing". I realize most people can't stand Bonds, but this is getting ridiculous in my opinion.

Barry Bonds is a total jerk -- but he can flat out pound the baseball.

[mroby85]

Interesting article.

I think the arm guard has nothing to do with the "mechanics of the swing". I realize most people can't stand Bonds, but this is getting ridiculous in my opinion.

Barry Bonds is a total jerk -- but he can flat out pound the baseball.

amen

[durl]

I'm curious to learn if other people have released analysis of Bonds' arm device. We know bowlers use gloves to help their motion, I just didn't think about how an arm shield could be used to modify a batter's swing.

This could have some interesting repercussions.

[mroby85]

lol this is quite possibly the dumbest thing i've ever read.

[big boy]

lol this is quite possibly the dumbest thing i've ever read.

I'm not saying you're wrong but could you point out the flaw in each of the arguments made?

[durl]

lol this is quite possibly the dumbest thing i've ever read.

Why is that? Is the writer wrong in his conclusions based upon the way the device is constructed?

I'm not an engineer so I can't refute anything he's saying and he could be completely wrong for all I know. Even so, there are many devices in the marketplace that help athletes improve their performance from a training standpoint. If Bonds' device does ANYTHING to aid his motion or power, it should never be used in a game.

[mroby85]

why do you think this never came out about craig biggio? talk about using the arm pad to make your game better, he always stuck his arm into pitches. what it boils down to is they're on a witch hunt in pursuit of bonds, and they aren't going to stop until they've tarnished his career. i honestly thought this was a joke at first, but unfortunately i guess it wasn't.

[AtomicDumpling]

He also has a perfectly engineered helmet that keeps his head in the exact proper position for viewing the pitch. LOL

I hear Carson Palmer's knee brace is engineered to perfect his throwing stance and is primarily responsible for his NFL success.

Bonds' Lasik eye surgery actually implanted bionic corneas that can utilize radar to triangulate the location of the ball while determining the precise spin and therefore calculate exactly where the ball will be as it enters the hitting zone. This enables Bonds to hit the ball on the sweet spot of the bat every time.

Without the space age engineering Barry Bonds wouldn't hit any better than Juan Castro.

[Muggerd]

Bonds is a joke and any pitcher that pitches to him should be ashamed of themselves.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

Witch Hunt aside.... ;)

I read the same article after seeing it posted in ORG.

Bottom line is, everyone ISNT allowed to wear what Bonds wears. He "grandfathered" into it.

So, whether it helps him or not, I don't think he should be allowed to wear it, unless everyone else is allowed to wear it, which they are not.

[mroby85]

Bonds is a joke and any pitcher that pitches to him should be ashamed of themselves.

you should be ashamed of yourself for making a ridiculous post like that, lol.

[Muggerd]

you should be ashamed of yourself for making a ridiculous post like that, lol.

Why because most people that say "steroids doesnt make you see the ball and hit the ball" are the smartest people out there?

[mroby85]

no because you said "Bonds is a joke, and any pitcher that pitches to him should be ashamed of themselves" thats why.

[Betterread]

[B]Bottom line is, everyone ISNT allowed to wear what Bonds wears. He "grandfathered" into it.

So, whether it helps him or not, I don't think he should be allowed to wear it, unless everyone else is allowed to wear it, which they are not.

That's how I read this article. My issue is why is he gets to use equipment that no other player has. It is debatable whether it helps him or not, but it is not debatable that he has a privilege that no other ballplayer is allowed.

[improbus]

Look, Bonds started hitting tons of homers when he moved closer to the plate and shortened his swing. The "armor" let him stay in on balls at his elbow, which is an enormous advantage. If you remember, he used to have a swing kind of like Dunn's, long and looping. He's also one of the "smartest" ballplayers of all time.

[MasonBuzz3]

Look, Bonds started hitting tons of homers when he moved closer to the plate and shortened his swing. The "armor" let him stay in on balls at his elbow, which is an enormous advantage. If you remember, he used to have a swing kind of like Dunn's, long and looping. He's also one of the "smartest" ballplayers of all time.

so, what you are saying is get Dunn one of those gigantic elbow guards and we might have a "run producer"?

[Goten]

Look, Bonds started hitting tons of homers when he moved closer to the plate and shortened his swing. The "armor" let him stay in on balls at his elbow, which is an enormous advantage. If you remember, he used to have a swing kind of like Dunn's, long and looping. He's also one of the "smartest" ballplayers of all time.

The allegations in the article have been completely debunked by the creator of the brace. Check out Baseball Prospectus for Will Caroll's discussion with the creator.

[MasonBuzz3]

The allegations in the article have been completely debunked by the creator of the brace. Check out Baseball Prospectus for Will Caroll's discussion with the creator.

and anybody who has ever seen Bonds' can debunk that guy's crediability. Bonds' arms havent gotten any larger since '92? come on now

[Goten]

and anybody who has ever seen Bonds' can debunk that guy's crediability. Bonds' arms havent gotten any larger since '92? come on now

He never said that, he said since 96.

And Bonds arms actually aren't that big, nor have they ever been. mark Mcgwire posessed MUCH bigger and thicker arms than Barry Bonds. As does Gary Sheffield.

[MasonBuzz3]

my bad about the year; heres a picture of Bonds in 96. I wish i could add that kind of muscle mass in a half decade, and im a little under half of Bonds' age

[improbus]

so, what you are saying is get Dunn one of those gigantic elbow guards and we might have a "run producer"?

:rolleyes:

Why do I have a feeling that we will someday see a "Dunn needs elbow pads" thread...

[Goten]

my bad about the year; heres a picture of Bonds in 96. I wish i could add that kind of muscle mass in a half decade, and im a little under half of Bonds' age

I think Bonds muscle gain is a bit overestimated. Still, his chest may have been bigger, but it doesn't mean the size of his arms increased. Bonds just doesn't have those paul bunyan like arms.

[MasonBuzz3]

I think Bonds muscle gain is a bit overestimated. Still, his chest may have been bigger, but it doesn't mean the size of his arms increased. Bonds just doesn't have those paul bunyan like arms.

arm strength isnt the only thing that helps a player drive the ball, its a small part of it. I don't think that a single person is arguing that Bonds' wasnt one of the greatest ever prior to '96-'99. but the evidence is hard to deny. the man allegedly admitted to "unknowingly" doing roids, so 756* seems fine to me

[improbus]

I think Bonds muscle gain is a bit overestimated. Still, his chest may have been bigger, but it doesn't mean the size of his arms increased. Bonds just doesn't have those paul bunyan like arms.

I agree. I've never liked the whole "Barry's head got bigger" or "Barry's arms got bigger" argument as proof that he used steroids. For example...
http://www.aawow.com/MJX930OF2300BCCG10.jpg
http://www.michaeljordan.pl/cutenews/data/upimages/michael_jordan6.jpg

[MasonBuzz3]

http://www2.raisport.rai.it/news/sport/nba/200204/03/3caadeb606984/MichaelJordan2.jpg
yea, MJ definitely did roids....i mean the emerging double chin and the "ripped" arms he is sporting definitely give him away. Take a Bonds' picture from 98 and 03, or whenever MJ was with the Wiz. Compare them, i doubt you find many similarities. Bonds' admitted to using, he's a cheat

[improbus]

http://www2.raisport.rai.it/news/sport/nba/200204/03/3caadeb606984/MichaelJordan2.jpg
yea, MJ definitely did roids....i mean the emerging double chin and the "ripped" arms he is sporting definitely give him away. Take a Bonds' picture from 98 and 03, or whenever MJ was with the Wiz. Compare them, i doubt you find many similarities. Bonds' admitted to using, he's a cheat

What I'm saying is that as guys get older, they change. Maybe Bonds just got "old man muscles;)"

BTW, have scientists ever linked head growth to steroids?

[Goten]

arm strength isnt the only thing that helps a player drive the ball, its a small part of it. I don't think that a single person is arguing that Bonds' wasnt one of the greatest ever prior to '96-'99. but the evidence is hard to deny. the man allegedly admitted to "unknowingly" doing roids, so 756* seems fine to me

We weren't talking about steroids though...

[Goten]

What I'm saying is that as guys get older, they change. Maybe Bonds just got "old man muscles;)"

BTW, have scientists ever linked head growth to steroids?

HGH use has been said to cause head-growth.

[mroby85]

i believe that barry bonds used steroids, i'm not going to even argue that because i feel it's pretty obvious. when they're is that much smoke, there is fire. That being said, Barry Bonds is the greatest player to ever play the game, and i support him. he's an amazing player, and i'm glad that i got to see him play!

PS- all you a-rod supporters have got something else coming if you don't think he used steroids.

[Muggerd]

i believe that barry bonds used steroids, i'm not going to even argue that because i feel it's pretty obvious. when they're is that much smoke, there is fire. That being said, Barry Bonds is the greatest player to ever play the game, and i support him. he's an amazing player, and i'm glad that i got to see him play!

PS- all you a-rod supporters have got something else coming if you don't think he used steroids.

ok

[Dracodave]

PS- all you a-rod supporters have got something else coming if you don't think he used steroids.

Really? What proof do you have against A-Rod? He's dont nothing but perform his entire career. Give me proof, something tanigible that we can all see ie- a confusion, first hand accounts from credible sources.

[mroby85]

bonds has never failed a test so you have no proof on him either!

[Muggerd]

bonds has never failed a test so you have no proof on him either!

He admitted he took to the grand jury... and you cant test for HGH to begin with.

[mroby85]

how do you know a-rod didn't use HGH then?

all i'm saying is the same people who are trying to tear bonds down and don't like him, are endorsing other players that do or did the same thing. i don't care if you don't like bonds, thats not my point, my point is other people have done the same thing, and aren't taking the same kind of heat for it.

Mcgwire was the most honest player during that whole congress thing, and he's the one being torn down the most, just because he didn't deny using. Rafael Palmeiro didn't use it either PERIOD! and neither did sammy sosa? yea right, sosa used cork too!

[Muggerd]

how do you know a-rod didn't use HGH then?

all i'm saying is the same people who are trying to tear bonds down and don't like him, are endorsing other players that do or did the same thing. i don't care if you don't like bonds, thats not my point, my point is other people have done the same thing, and aren't taking the same kind of heat for it.

Mcgwire was the most honest player during that whole congress thing, and he's the one being torn down the most, just because he didn't deny using. Rafael Palmeiro didn't use it either PERIOD! and neither did sammy sosa? yea right, sosa used cork too!

Mcgwire wasnt honest at all either. Just becuse you dont talk doesnt make what you say truthful. All 3 of those guys will be lucky to make it into the hall. McGwire will probably never make it, Palmeiro with out a doubt wont make it and Sosa hasnt stopped playing yet so we cant really talk about him.

You are right we dont know if A-Rod took HGH but we do know that his name hasnt been mentioned in any reports and he doesnt show any signs of HGH side effects.

Bonds is getting the most heat right now because hes breaking records. What point would it be for a sport writer to go after some guy that hit 30 homers? There is none. Bonds is only the main focus because hes the most prominent. Insert any player with the amount of evidence against Bonds in the same situation and guess what... They would be getting the same treatment.