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View Full Version : 8/20/07 - Reds vs Braves Game Thread



BRM
08-20-2007, 03:09 PM
Lineups per C. Trent

Reds
Hamilton cf
Keppinger ss
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Hatteberg 1b
Valentin c
Bellhorn 3b
Dumatrait p

Braves
Escobar ss
Diaz lf
C. Jones 3b
Teixeira 1b
Francoeur rf
Jones cf
McCann c
Prado 2b
Hudson p

KronoRed
08-20-2007, 03:13 PM
Bellhorn at 3rd eh?

That should go well.

RichRed
08-20-2007, 03:18 PM
Bellhorn at 3rd eh?

That should go well.

This team is all about pitching and defense.

Heath
08-20-2007, 03:35 PM
For the love of Pete. Even though he's on your roster, it doesn't mean you HAVE to play him.

I guess the Reds have the "all-high socks" left side of the infield.

Tornon
08-20-2007, 06:28 PM
Anybody know how the weather looks? It's been awful in Columbus all day

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 06:34 PM
Anybody know how the weather looks? It's been awful in Columbus all day

The weather is horrible.....North of the 275 loop, and it's moving east north east....

As long the front stays North....everything will be fine. If it crawls south, not so much.

Early indications, are that everything should be fine.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 06:41 PM
Anybody know how the weather looks? It's been awful in Columbus all day

Like Matt said most of the rain is north you can see some rain here in Indiana to the west of Cincinnati. How quickly that moves will determine whether this games gets delayed at some point.

http://image.weather.com/web/radar/us_ind_closeradar_plus_usen.jpg

Gallen5862
08-20-2007, 06:45 PM
Does anyone know if Cantu has arrived for the game or Will the Reds be playing with a 24 man roster tonight?

CTA513
08-20-2007, 06:46 PM
Does anyone know if Cantu has arrived for the game or Will the Reds be playing with a 24 man roster tonight?

On Reds live they said he wasn't at GABP yet, but that he should arrive later.

WVRedsFan
08-20-2007, 06:51 PM
For the love of Pete. Even though he's on your roster, it doesn't mean you HAVE to play him.

I guess the Reds have the "all-high socks" left side of the infield.
Reds fans love it. Note to Adam Dunn...put your socks up high and bounce around a little. Start hitting the ball into the ground and legging out hits. You'll boost your popularity by 60%.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 06:57 PM
Is that Kellie Pickler?

:eek:

Joseph
08-20-2007, 06:59 PM
Is that Kellie Pickler?

:eek:

I know, doesn't she look pathetic dressed like a hoochie?

redsmetz
08-20-2007, 07:01 PM
The weather is horrible.....North of the 275 loop, and it's moving east north east....

As long the front stays North....everything will be fine. If it crawls south, not so much.

Early indications, are that everything should be fine.

You know, though, we're so desperate for rain, I'm open to the game getting interrupted - we really, really need it.

WVRedsFan
08-20-2007, 07:01 PM
Is that Kellie Pickler?

:eek:

Yep. Met her in May at a family cookout. I didn't know who she was. It had to be explained to me (I don't watch AI, ever). Just a regular, nice kid, but her family is a little on the redneck side.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:03 PM
You know, though, we're so desperate for rain, I'm open to the game getting interrupted - we really, really need it.

We do need it...badly. 10:30 looks good :D

Gallen5862
08-20-2007, 07:05 PM
Thanks CTA513 for info on Cantu. Where was Kelli Pickler seen at?

VR
08-20-2007, 07:05 PM
I have no problem getting Bellhorn a start against a tough righty.

Hopefully EE will spend the time watching tape realizing he can't hit a pitch 6 inches high and 6 inches outside...the one he's been giving away outs to all year.

I wonder if taking winter ball off this year would help. His body isn't 19 anymore...and it's pretty much a hack-away league.

VR
08-20-2007, 07:08 PM
By the way....the Reds enter tonight's game a mere 9 games back after the Cubs lost today.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:09 PM
Thanks CTA513 for info on Cantu. Where was Kelli Pickler seen at?

Ballpark. I think she was there for Nascar night and they showed her walking around on the field....

Threw out first pitch, maybe?

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:10 PM
This Atlanta lineup is a bit more dangerous than the last time we saw them....you stick Mark Texiera in there and that's what happens.

Could be tough night for Dumatrait, if he continues his trend

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:12 PM
Here's that Escobar kid that was rumored to be coming to Cincinnati....that obviously panned out...

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:14 PM
Josh. Oops.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:14 PM
Diaz with a one out double to center.

vaticanplum
08-20-2007, 07:14 PM
I have a feeling the Reds are going to get walloped tonight. Fortunately, my instincts are often pretty bad.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:16 PM
Diaz goes to 3rd as Chipper flies out to right.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:18 PM
A 4 pitch walk to Teixeira makes it 1st and 3rd with 2 outs.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:18 PM
Looks like there's about 36 people at the park, tonight.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:18 PM
Francouer singles to left. 1-0 Braves.

VR
08-20-2007, 07:21 PM
Francouer singles to left. 1-0 Braves.


Why you would throw a meatball down the middle of the plate to a hacker like Francouer is beyond me.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:22 PM
A. Jones walks. Bases loaded.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:23 PM
This isn't a good situation...

CTA513
08-20-2007, 07:24 PM
This isn't a good situation...

He should be sitting on the bench after the facing the first 3 hitters.

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 07:25 PM
I think I've seen about enough of Dumatrait.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:25 PM
:lol:

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:25 PM
McCann with a grand slam to right. Rain may be our best chance tonight. 5-0 Braves.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:25 PM
I have a feeling the Reds are going to get walloped tonight. Fortunately, my instincts are often pretty bad.

...then again

CTA513
08-20-2007, 07:25 PM
Should have been a 1-2-3 inning.

mbgrayson
08-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Shopping list for next season:
Pitching.

Falls City Beer
08-20-2007, 07:26 PM
You know, I thought, maybe I'll catch a little of the game tonight--then I saw Dumatrait.

Forget it, I could go streaking instead.

MrCinatit
08-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Brian McCann is pretty good.

BTW, it can go ahead and rain now.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Inning is finally over. A 29 pitch inning for Dumatrait.

CTA513
08-20-2007, 07:27 PM
Shopping list for next season:
Pitching.

Center fielder

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:28 PM
With that inning Dumatrait's ERA is now 13.14.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 07:28 PM
Shopping list for next season:
Pitching.

That would be every season.

VR
08-20-2007, 07:29 PM
Kyle Lohse looks mighty good right now.

Hey, they were down 5-0 yesterday with only 6 innings to play....this shouldn't be a problem.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:30 PM
Keppinger with a one out single to right.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:30 PM
There goes Keppinger....again

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 07:30 PM
Country Kepp just keeps hittin'.

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 07:31 PM
Bellhorn at 3rd eh?

That should go well.


Just trying to shop him. It wasn't a game the REDS were going to win anyway with Dumatrait there.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:31 PM
Junior singles to right. 1st and 3rd.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:33 PM
Phillips with a sac. fly to left. 5-1 Braves.

VR
08-20-2007, 07:34 PM
Looks like the Reds gameplan for tonight is simple

"go up there a hackin'

CrackerJack
08-20-2007, 07:36 PM
Uh, how was that a strike?

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:36 PM
What a horrible call. That may one of the worst this year. Dunn called out on a pitch way inside.

mbgrayson
08-20-2007, 07:37 PM
Dunn takes ball 4 for strike 3.

CTA513
08-20-2007, 07:37 PM
Ump must have forgot his glasses.

Falls City Beer
08-20-2007, 07:37 PM
The problem isn't at all that the Reds don't have an expensive #5 starter like Lohse; the problem is that the Reds have absolutely nothing but below-replacement-level talent everywhere in their minor league system.

oneupper
08-20-2007, 07:37 PM
Wow. That pitch was at least 6 inches inside.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 07:37 PM
What a horrible call. That may one of the worst this year. Dunn called out on a pitch way inside.

Sportsline had it over the plate but a bit low.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:38 PM
Sportsline had it over the plate but a bit low.Gameday has it way inside which it was.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 07:38 PM
Reds may not be very good but they really have gotten a raw deal from the umps on lot of occasions.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:39 PM
Rain starting to fall at the park.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 07:39 PM
Sportsline had it over the plate but a bit low.and they were off by a good 6-8 inches. Pitch was not even close. Mccann caught it outside the cathers box

Ltlabner
08-20-2007, 07:39 PM
Chat is open for those interested

mbgrayson
08-20-2007, 07:40 PM
Center fielder

Huh? How so? We have Hamilton, Freel, Hopper all available, and that doesn't mention Jay Bruce coming up, or Votto shifting from 1st to LF this year in Louisville.

We really don't need outfielders, compared to needing pitchers.

BCubb2003
08-20-2007, 07:41 PM
and they were off by a good 6-8 inches. Pitch was not even close. Mccann caught it outside the cathers box

Sportsline and Gameday are just some guy pointing a screen right? They're not mechanically accurate in any way.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:41 PM
A one out infield hit for Escobar as the ball just rolls right down the 3rd base line.

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 07:41 PM
What a horrible call. That may one of the worst this year. Dunn called out on a pitch way inside.

GameDay showed it to be way inside, also.

Ltlabner
08-20-2007, 07:42 PM
Raining hard at the stadium.

Dry in Milford.

Film at 11:00.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:44 PM
C. Jones singles to center. 1st and 3rd with 2 outs.

Ltlabner
08-20-2007, 07:45 PM
Urgh....

Pray for tornado.

For those who said, "Dumatrait can't be any worse than what we already have......".

He is.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:45 PM
Teixeira with a 3 run homer to right. 8-1 Braves. All 8 runs scored with 2 outs.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:46 PM
This is going well...

BuckeyeRedleg
08-20-2007, 07:46 PM
37 baserunners in 13 innings now for Dumatrait (through 1.2 tonight).

Seriously, his stuff reminds me of a Branden Claussen.

That's not good by the way.

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 07:46 PM
This is really like a Minor League game. The only reason the REDS are playing it is so Dumatrait can get Major League experience. Hamilton and Keppinger getting more experience is also a benefit. Votto should have been called up instead of Cantu so he could start getting Major League experience, even though he still can't hit left-handers at AAA.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:46 PM
Urgh....

Pray for tornado.



I will safely predict that there will be no tornado tonight :)

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:46 PM
Another hit as Francouer singles. Dumatrait now with a 14.54 ERA.

CrackerJack
08-20-2007, 07:47 PM
Dumatrait has...nothing.

Exit stage left please...permanently.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-20-2007, 07:47 PM
Make that 38 baserunners.

This guy is not good.

Joseph
08-20-2007, 07:47 PM
I'm amazed this kid can't pitch. I can get with the understanding that some folks aren't as good as advertised, but this kid can't pitch it appears.

mbgrayson
08-20-2007, 07:48 PM
37 baserunners in 13 innings now for Dumatrait (through 1.2 tonight).

Seriously, his stuff reminds me of a Branden Claussen.

That's not good by the way.

Actually, Claussen was much better than Dumatrait before he got hurt. Not good, mind you, but better. He has a 4.21 ERA and a 10-11 record in 2005, over 166 innings.

Ltlabner
08-20-2007, 07:48 PM
Not making excuses for the kid, but I have to think pitching in the rain ain't a load of fun.

Patrick Bateman
08-20-2007, 07:48 PM
Seriously, can we end the Dumatrait experiment?

He hasn't shown one single positive thing since he's been in the majors. He has gotten beat around from start until finish. There must be better options.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-20-2007, 07:48 PM
What did this guy do to even earn this 4th start?

My God. Was it because he was a 1st round pick.....8 YEARS AGO!?!?!?!

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 07:49 PM
I think I've seen about enough of Dumatrait.
yup.

VR
08-20-2007, 07:49 PM
Dumatrait has...nothing.

Exit stage left please...permanently..

Here ya go Phil

http://www.louisvilleticket.com/artwork/thelouisvilleticket-logo.gif

Kc61
08-20-2007, 07:49 PM
I've been a big supporter of PDumatrait on this forum and the minor league forum. But this is just not tolerable. I admit error.

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 07:49 PM
Guess this is Dumatrait's last start in the Majors for 2007.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:49 PM
Inning finally over as A. Jones lines out to left. Braves are taking batting practice.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 07:50 PM
Sportsline and Gameday are just some guy pointing a screen right? They're not mechanically accurate in any way.when gameday posts the speed and trajectories(which they are tonight) they are usually accurate ... an gameday showed the pitch WAY inside

flyer85
08-20-2007, 07:51 PM
anyone else ready for Belisle to come back?

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 07:51 PM
Dumatrait needs to work on an "out" pitch.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-20-2007, 07:51 PM
Actually, Claussen was much better thatn Dumatrait before he got hurt. Not good, mind you, but better.

I was referring to the Claussen after the injury.

That's how low in the barrel I think the Reds have scraped to start this guy.

I was going tonight, but saw the forecast and that Dumatrait was on the hill.

I feel pretty good about my decision to stay home.

CTA513
08-20-2007, 07:52 PM
anyone else ready for Belisle to come back?

Yes

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 07:52 PM
anyone else ready for Belisle to come back?

He never looked so good than now. But, I'd like to give another pitcher an opportunity just to see what happens.

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:53 PM
Valentin with a one out double to left. 11 game hit streak.

Ltlabner
08-20-2007, 07:53 PM
Phil meet "real job".

"Real job" meet failed MLB pitcher.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:53 PM
I was for letting Dumatriat get is chance....he earned it. He got it.

He didn't do well...time to send him back....maybe he'll earn another chance down the road.

mbgrayson
08-20-2007, 07:54 PM
when gameday posts the speed and trajectories(which they are tonight) they are usually accurate ... an gameday showed the pitch WAY inside

From a site explaining how GameDay works...
" the system we’re installing actually uses three high-speed cameras which capture approximately 60 images per second, so we’re hoping to record about 30 data points for each pitch. (The cameras work together to locate the pitch so it takes all three to record one image.) We track the pitch from about 55 feet away from home plate—roughly the pitcher’s release point—to the front edge of home plate, so this allows us to determine the pitch’s trajectory, etc., with great accuracy along the entire path. "

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:54 PM
Livingston to hit for Dumatrait

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 07:55 PM
We could have picked up Ramon Ortiz from the Twins. :p:

BuckeyeRedleg
08-20-2007, 07:55 PM
"Harang, Arroyo, and pray for tornado."

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:55 PM
Bellhorn walks and Livingston is pinch hitting.

CTA513
08-20-2007, 07:56 PM
That 2-2 pitch to Bellhorn was closer to being strike 3 than the 3-2 pitch to Dunn.

mbgrayson
08-20-2007, 07:56 PM
"Harang, Arroyo, and pray for tornado."
I like it!

Reds Fanatic
08-20-2007, 07:56 PM
Livingston grounds into a DP.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 07:57 PM
anyone else ready for Belisle to come back?

It only takes a few beatings to forget what Belisle looked like with the big team. Dumatrait doesn't work, neither does Belisle.

What does work is making a conscious effort to improve the pitching staff. Whether that means drafting the hell out of it, signing the hell out of it in the overseas markets or pouring a buttload of money into it in the FA mkt, something has to be done. All of these retreads ain't gonna work.

BCubb2003
08-20-2007, 07:57 PM
From a site explaining how GameDay works...
" the system we’re installing actually uses three high-speed cameras which capture approximately 60 images per second, so we’re hoping to record about 30 data points for each pitch. (The cameras work together to locate the pitch so it takes all three to record one image.) We track the pitch from about 55 feet away from home plate—roughly the pitcher’s release point—to the front edge of home plate, so this allows us to determine the pitch’s trajectory, etc., with great accuracy along the entire path. "


Thanks. I thought it was just somebody eyeballing it.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 07:58 PM
anyone else ready for Belisle to come back?

In the bullpen? Sure, I'd try it.

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 07:58 PM
Paul Wilson's still available.

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 07:58 PM
"Harang, Arroyo, and pray for tornado."

Fantastic!

Ltlabner
08-20-2007, 08:00 PM
Still dry in Milford.

Weird.

CTA513
08-20-2007, 08:00 PM
Dumatrait is replaced by someone else who has a hard time finding the strike zone.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 08:00 PM
Still dry in Milford.

Weird.

Strange weather system.

The road is wet here (Kenwood) by the windows are dry.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 08:01 PM
It only takes a few beatings to forget what Belisle looked like with the big team. Dumatrait doesn't work, neither does Belisle..a 5+ ERA works a little bit better than a 14+ one.

nate
08-20-2007, 08:01 PM
Dumatrait needs to work on an "out" pitch.

I think he's got an "out" pitch.

He throws it and they hit it "out". Then he get taken "out".

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 08:02 PM
I think he's got an "out" pitch.

He throws it and they hit it "out". Then he get taken "out".
and then he gets "out" righted to Louisville.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 08:03 PM
a 5+ ERA works a little bit better than a 14+ one.

That's like saying getting hit by a Jetta is better than getting hit by a Suburban.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 08:03 PM
Double by Prado

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 08:04 PM
In the bullpen? Sure, I'd try it.

Agreed

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 08:05 PM
Nice throw by Hamilton

Falls City Beer
08-20-2007, 08:06 PM
Dumatrait? Belisle? Who cares? While Dumatrait will always suck, Belisle's been well-below replacement level for about 2 months and was showing no signs of turning it around. Still, it would probably be better to have Belisle stretch himself some to see if he can pull a replacement-level season or little better next season.

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 08:06 PM
That's like saying getting hit by a Jetta is better than getting hit by a Suburban.

You can't get hit by a Jetta. It would break down before it got to you. :laugh:

BCubb2003
08-20-2007, 08:09 PM
Some guys have an out pitch; some guys have an ouch pitch.

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 08:10 PM
COUNTRY KEPP

Ltlabner
08-20-2007, 08:10 PM
Who's the heavy set guy in the TV booth with Thom and Creeper who's so excited about the game that he's reading a book ?

:yikes:

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 08:11 PM
After 4 starts with an ERA of 14.00+ that's probably enough for this year. Give him another chance next year.

I'd throw some more mud on the wall and see if it sticks.

Tom Shearn, then Richie Gardner.

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 08:11 PM
Keppinger is so predictable... hit hit hit hit..

Eric_Davis
08-20-2007, 08:13 PM
As much as I hated the Harris trade, there probably wouldn't be a Keppinger here if it hadn't happened.

Patrick Bateman
08-20-2007, 08:14 PM
I was for letting Dumatriat get is chance....he earned it. He got it.

He didn't do well...time to send him back....maybe he'll earn another chance down the road.

I still haven't figured out what he did to earn a chance.

He basically showed that he was stinky in AAA, and he has been as advertised in the majors. There was no evidence that suggested that Dumatrait could get major league hitters out.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 08:15 PM
As much as I hated the Harris trade, there probably wouldn't be a Keppinger here if it hadn't happened.

Juan Castro injury as well....Juan Castro now officially has no purpose in this organization

RedLegSuperStar
08-20-2007, 08:21 PM
8-2 after 3

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 08:27 PM
Mark Texiera....again....for 3 more.

6 runs on 2 hits for him.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 08:28 PM
there is good news ... the Reds won't be eliminated from playoff contention even if they lose by 15 tonight.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 08:29 PM
there is good news ... the Reds won't be eliminated from playoff contention even if they lose by 15 tonight.

Grab the champagne glasses!

15fan
08-20-2007, 08:29 PM
That ball that Teixeira hit for HR #2 tonight still hasn't landed...

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 08:30 PM
I think it just broke a window at Tropicana

(for those not from here...Tropicana is a bar at Newport on the Levee)

Falls City Beer
08-20-2007, 08:34 PM
I'd say Atlanta won that Texas trade, eh? Hell, I don't need to revisit the trade years from now; Atlanta won that one. Big Tex's going all Houston-era Beltran.

CTA513
08-20-2007, 08:38 PM
The Reds have nobody else in AAA that can fill Goslings role in the bullpen?

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 08:44 PM
The Reds have nobody else in AAA that can fill Goslings role in the bullpen?

It would be more of the same.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 08:46 PM
Keppinger is 3-3

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 08:47 PM
Keppinger is so predictable... hit hit hit hit..

You can say that again.

3-for-3

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 08:52 PM
Dunn...HITTING much much better this season

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 08:54 PM
I would give Griffey the rest of the night off, and put Hopper in RF.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 09:02 PM
Just a pathetic display tonight. I really wish this team would get some pitching one of these years.

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 09:03 PM
I think Welsh just said "Bellporn".

37red
08-20-2007, 09:05 PM
Girls like Kellie Pickler just turn me off. She's so full of herself you wonder if there is any brain in that over made up head at all. Good night, we needed rain more than another loss. The vanishing lead in the Central has been so typical of getting the attention of fans, then just slipping off into nowhere land. It's time for free popcorn, hotdogs, brats and 1/2 price beer to fill the stands.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:06 PM
Girls like Kellie Pickler just turn me off. She's so full of herself you wonder if there is any brain in that over made up head at all. s.

Hit mute, and look

;)

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:08 PM
Dunn...HITTING much much better this seasonyeah ... but he's not a run producer. :D

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:12 PM
Ump...out of position and makes a bad call.

Nice.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:12 PM
Hatty stretches too soon and combined with his awful footwork takes away an out.

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 09:20 PM
Keppinger hitting .382 now.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:25 PM
Ellison in for Griffey...Guardado to pitch

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 09:30 PM
Ellison in for Griffey...Guardado to pitch

Straight substitutions, or double switch?

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:30 PM
CW, I think I can project what EG will be like next year.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:31 PM
Must be nice to root for a team that has a chance to win it all every season, can draft, can develop, and can build, re-build, and re-invent itself while never losing a step.

Maybe somebody we'll know what that is like

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 09:31 PM
It takes some effort for Eddie Guardado to raise his ERA, but he was able to do it.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:31 PM
Reds are overloaded with LH waste material.

15fan
08-20-2007, 09:32 PM
Up 11-3 in the 8th, Cox sends Chipper Jones, Mark Teixeira, Jeff Francouer, and Andruw Jones to the plate.

Braves hang 3 more on the board, taking the lead to 14-3.

Exhibit A of why Bobby Cox is an @$$.

I hope Guardado rears back and drills the next guy into the batters box.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:32 PM
Straight substitutions, or double switch?

Double switch...

15fan
08-20-2007, 09:33 PM
Atta boy, Eddie.

Pitch 1 in on the hand, pitch 2 between McCann's shoulder blades.

Don't stop there. Do it again.

Tom Servo
08-20-2007, 09:33 PM
Up 11-3 in the 8th, Cox sends Chipper Jones, Mark Teixeira, Jeff Francouer, and Andruw Jones to the plate.

Braves hang 3 more on the board, taking the lead to 14-3.

Exhibit A of why Bobby Cox is an @$$.

I hope Guardado rears back and drills the next guy into the batters box.
there you go

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:33 PM
Up 11-3 in the 8th, Cox sends Chipper Jones, Mark Teixeira, Jeff Francouer, and Andruw Jones to the plate.

Braves hang 3 more on the board, taking the lead to 14-3.

Exhibit A of why Bobby Cox is an @$$.

I hope Guardado rears back and drills the next guy into the batters box.

He did.

Whether intentional or not, he did.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:34 PM
Hey, I'm all about a rumble!

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 09:36 PM
Up 11-3 in the 8th, Cox sends Chipper Jones, Mark Teixeira, Jeff Francouer, and Andruw Jones to the plate.

Braves hang 3 more on the board, taking the lead to 14-3.

Exhibit A of why Bobby Cox is an @$$.

I hope Guardado rears back and drills the next guy into the batters box.

I missed it. What did Cox and/or Jones do?

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:37 PM
3 of the Reds 4 pitchers tonight have an ERA over 10.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 09:37 PM
It is flat out amazing how much uselessness is on the current roster.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:37 PM
I missed it. What did Cox and/or Jones do?batted.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:37 PM
Andrew and Chipper out of the lineup now

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 09:37 PM
I missed it. What did Cox and/or Jones do?

They pummeled Guardado. Just like the rest of the league.

15fan
08-20-2007, 09:39 PM
One of the things that always always always haunts the Braves in the post-season is the absolute lack of a bench & bullpen. By the time the playoffs roll around, the Braves regulars are gassed, and no one on the bench is ready to go.

(The specific example that comes to mind is a few years ago when the Braves were leading the division by 15-20 games, and Cox was leaving Glavine in for 120+ pitch outings for meaningless games in September. When October rolled around, Glavine had nothing left and got rocked in the playoffs.)

Tonight would have been a great opportunity for Cox to rest some of his regulars a little bit and get some ABs for his bench. But instead, Cox kept his big guns out there so that they could win by 11 instead of by 8.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:39 PM
It is flat out amazing how much uselessness is on the current roster.manager's options are really limited.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Cantu makes his debut....with a single!

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Guys, I know that Jones hammered Guardado. I wanted to know why 15fan thought Cox was being a jerk.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 09:40 PM
Guys, I know that Jones hammered Guardado. I wanted to know why 15fan thought Cox was being a jerk.

For leaving them in.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:40 PM
They pummeled Guardado. Just like the rest of the league.he's going to start the salvation thing next week.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:40 PM
For leaving them in.

It's baseball.

If you're the pitcher...get them out. You don't want them to hang 3 on you? Make some pitches....

Cyclone792
08-20-2007, 09:40 PM
Eddie Guardado cracks me up.

All we've heard this entire season was updates on Eddie Guardado. Bob Castellini promised Reds fans that the bullpen will "line up" once Guardado and Bill Bray return. Every time Hal McCoy was in the radio booth with Marty in the second inning, they always seemed to be talking about how Guardado was doing in his rehab. Sometimes he threw scoreless innings; other times he got shelled. Then a few other times he had setbacks, and then Marty, and especially Hal, would seemingly get depressed.

But you know what? Eddie Guardado is a flat out embarrassment. He's an embarrassment to the Reds. He's an embarrassment to everyone who for some wild reason thought he would be the answer upon his return. And he's an embarrassment for himself.

The Reds need to do themselves a favor and send Guardado on his way. Give him his pink slip and wish him good luck.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 09:40 PM
manager's options are really limited.

Exactly why Narron was a total patsy. Krivsky will have to answer for this mess at some point.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:42 PM
Exactly why Narron was a total patsy. Krivsky will have to answer for this mess at some point.there are a least 7 players with no business on a major league roster.

edabbs44
08-20-2007, 09:42 PM
It's baseball.

If you're the pitcher...get them out.

It's big boy baseball, not Pee Wee. Maybe he could have taken them out, but I don't think it's like having Kobe popping 3s while up 40 or Manning going up top in the 4th up 4 TDs against the 3rd string.

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:44 PM
Hopper in left, Cantu at first

mbgrayson
08-20-2007, 09:44 PM
After 8 innings, Falcons 14, Bengals 3.
(See, the Falcons can score even without Vick!)

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:45 PM
This is an ideal situation to use Mike Stanton

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:46 PM
(See, the Falcons can score even without Vick!)he didn't have a "dog in the fight".:devil:

mbgrayson
08-20-2007, 09:47 PM
This is an ideal situation to use Mike Stanton

I don't know...if we score two touchdowns in the 9th we could win it....lol

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 09:47 PM
Guardado enters the game with a 21.00 ERA and finds a way to raise it! He now has a 22.50 ERA.

Makes you wish for the days of Chris Hammond.

15fan
08-20-2007, 09:49 PM
Guys, I know that Jones hammered Guardado. I wanted to know why 15fan thought Cox was being a jerk.

Up 8 in the 8th against one of the worst teams in MLB, and Cox left in all of his regulars for one more AB.

Believe me, I understand baseball isn't a charity game. But at some point, the smart manager tells his regulars to start hitting the showers a little early so that some other guys can get in some ABs or innings in the field. This game was in the bag. No sense trotting the big bats out there for one more go around. Had Teixeira ripped up his knee sliding on his double, or Francouer tweaked his hamstring rounding first, Cox would really look like an idiot.

You can't win the playoffs in August. But you can lose them.

Was there any reason for Cox to even have Teixeira in the on deck circle with 2 outs in the top of the 9th and an 11 run lead?

traderumor
08-20-2007, 09:52 PM
Eddie Guardado cracks me up.

All we've heard this entire season was updates on Eddie Guardado. Bob Castellini promised Reds fans that the bullpen will "line up" once Guardado and Bill Bray return. Every time Hal McCoy was in the radio booth with Marty in the second inning, they always seemed to be talking about how Guardado was doing in his rehab. Sometimes he threw scoreless innings; other times he got shelled. Then a few other times he had setbacks, and then Marty, and especially Hal, would seemingly get depressed.

But you know what? Eddie Guardado is a flat out embarrassment. He's an embarrassment to the Reds. He's an embarrassment to everyone who for some wild reason thought he would be the answer upon his return. And he's an embarrassment for himself.

The Reds need to do themselves a favor and send Guardado on his way. Give him his pink slip and wish him good luck.

That's a little harsh when part of the problem is most likely due to coming back from TJ surgery in less than a year and this is someone who was a good reliever for many years. He shouldn't be pitching this year is the answer, but I think you are overstating the reason for the updates on Guardado. I really don't have an excuse for the Reds giving him this chance, but he was getting minor leaguers out from what I heard reported in his rehab stints.

traderumor
08-20-2007, 09:53 PM
Up 8 in the 8th against one of the worst teams in MLB, and Cox left in all of his regulars for one more AB.

Believe me, I understand baseball isn't a charity game. But at some point, the smart manager tells his regulars to start hitting the showers a little early so that some other guys can get in some ABs or innings in the field. This game was in the bag. No sense trotting the big bats out there for one more go around. Had Teixeira ripped up his knee sliding on his double, or Francouer tweaked his hamstring rounding first, Cox would really look like an idiot.

You can't win the playoffs in August. But you can lose them.

Was there any reason for Cox to even have Teixeira in the on deck circle with 2 outs in the top of the 9th and an 11 run lead?Because he was next up?

Matt700wlw
08-20-2007, 09:54 PM
Jason Ellison got a ball out of the infield!!

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:54 PM
That's a little harsh when part of the problem is most likely due to coming back from TJ surgery in less than a year and this is someone who was a good reliever for many years.
also likely do to the fact that he has a rotator cuff problem that has never been fixed. It's what caused him to lose his velocity while still a Mariner. He's toast.

Coffeybro
08-20-2007, 09:55 PM
Was there any reason for Cox to even have Teixeira in the on deck circle with 2 outs in the top of the 9th and an 11 run lead?

Bobby has him on his fantasy baseball team.

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 09:57 PM
Up 8 in the 8th against one of the worst teams in MLB, and Cox left in all of his regulars for one more AB.

Believe me, I understand baseball isn't a charity game. But at some point, the smart manager tells his regulars to start hitting the showers a little early so that some other guys can get in some ABs or innings in the field. This game was in the bag. No sense trotting the big bats out there for one more go around. Had Teixeira ripped up his knee sliding on his double, or Francouer tweaked his hamstring rounding first, Cox would really look like an idiot.

You can't win the playoffs in August. But you can lose them.

Was there any reason for Cox to even have Teixeira in the on deck circle with 2 outs in the top of the 9th and an 11 run lead?

I don't disagree with you. There comes a point--whether you are winning or losing--when you take your big guns out of the game.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:57 PM
Bobby has him on his fantasy baseball team.Andruw is on my team, so I didn't mind.

Cyclone792
08-20-2007, 09:57 PM
That's a little harsh when part of the problem is most likely due to coming back from TJ surgery in less than a year and this is someone who was a good reliever for many years. He shouldn't be pitching this year is the answer, but I think you are overstating the reason for the updates on Guardado. I really don't have an excuse for the Reds giving him this chance, but he was getting minor leaguers out from what I heard reported in his rehab stints.

He was getting minor leaguers out to the tune of a .355/.429/.613/1.041 OPS against in Louisville. That must be the new definition of effective right there.

Guardado's going to be 37 in less than two months, and his arm is shot. He's had a nice career, but his time is in the past. Unfortunately for the Reds, neither the front office nor Guardado have figured that out.

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 09:58 PM
Kepp walks.

flyer85
08-20-2007, 09:59 PM
nor Guardado have figured that out.I think EG probably has, he just has several million reasons to not yet admit it.

IslandRed
08-20-2007, 10:00 PM
I don't disagree with you. There comes a point--whether you are winning or losing--when you take your big guns out of the game.

Just my opinion, but in big-league ball I don't think there's an unwritten rule about pulling your starters. After all, you can't put them back in the game if your bullpen blows the lead. It would have been perfectly sensible for Cox to lift some guys and give them a breather, but he wasn't bound to do it on sportsmanship grounds, IMHO.

traderumor
08-20-2007, 10:03 PM
He was getting minor leaguers out to the tune of a .355/.429/.613/1.041 OPS against in Louisville. That must be the new definition of effective right there.

Guardado's going to be 37 in less than two months, and his arm is shot. He's had a nice career, but his time is in the past. Unfortunately for the Reds, neither the front office nor Guardado have figured that out.

No, I heard reports on his various rehab stints, some were good, some were not so good, but he was not getting rocked in every on of the stints that I heard reports on. That is all I was saying.

I know its a blowout, but this is a game meant to enjoy. Next time, I will certainly base my thoughts on a few innings pitched in a rehab stint than come posting in a game thread with mere anecdotal evidence.

Big Klu
08-20-2007, 10:04 PM
Just my opinion, but in big-league ball I don't think there's an unwritten rule about pulling your starters. After all, you can't put them back in the game if your bullpen blows the lead. It would have been perfectly sensible for Cox to lift some guys and give them a breather, but he wasn't bound to do it on sportsmanship grounds, IMHO.

I'm not saying that you take them out for sportsmanship. I'm saying that in a blowout game like this, you should take them out to give them a break, to prevent unnecessary injuries, and to give your bench players some PT. And I think that goes for the losing team, as well. If you go back in the game thread, I was advocating taking Griffey out of the game in the fifth inning.

traderumor
08-20-2007, 10:14 PM
yea, I didn't have a clue what I was talking about

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Eddie%20Guardado&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=115216

These game logs are consistent with the reports I was hearing, your numbers are inflated by the 1/3 of an inning outing--the old faithful "small sample size". So, they gave him a chance to come back and his career might be over. I don't think that warrants the "embarrassment" rant.

Cyclone792
08-20-2007, 10:24 PM
yea, I didn't have a clue what I was talking about

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Eddie%20Guardado&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=115216

These game logs are consistent with the reports I was hearing, your numbers are inflated by the 1/3 of an inning outing--the old faithful "small sample size". So, they gave him a chance to come back and his career might be over. I don't think that warrants the "embarrassment" rant.

7.2 innings
8 hits
1 home run
3 walks
3 strikeouts

That's a 5.31 DIPS ERA with a 1.44 WHIP in those outings excluding the 1/3 of an inning when he got rocked. The reports you were hearing? Hope and prayers, and nothing more.

Not that it matters anyway. His velocity is down, his command is gone, and everything he throws in the strike zone more closely resembles a batting practice pitch than a major league quality pitch. The results so far since he's been back in Cincinnati speak for themselves.

VR
08-20-2007, 10:32 PM
7.2 innings
8 hits
1 home run
3 walks
3 strikeouts

That's a 5.31 DIPS ERA with a 1.44 WHIP in those outings excluding the 1/3 of an inning when he got rocked. The reports you were hearing? Hope and prayers, and nothing more.

Not that it matters anyway. His velocity is down, his command is gone, and everything he throws in the strike zone more closely resembles a batting practice pitch than a major league quality pitch. The results so far since he's been back in Cincinnati speak for themselves.

He had cran and elan.

Those can mask reality for a short time...but sooner or later you gotta have some talent. Ask the French, they've lost many wars with that approach.

traderumor
08-21-2007, 08:47 PM
7.2 innings
8 hits
1 home run
3 walks
3 strikeouts

That's a 5.31 DIPS ERA with a 1.44 WHIP in those outings excluding the 1/3 of an inning when he got rocked. The reports you were hearing? Hope and prayers, and nothing more.

Not that it matters anyway. His velocity is down, his command is gone, and everything he throws in the strike zone more closely resembles a batting practice pitch than a major league quality pitch. The results so far since he's been back in Cincinnati speak for themselves.
Again, you are talking about a few innings, which just so happens to fit your argument in this case. All of what you said is evident, I think the Reds are giving a guy a chance to come back from an injury, hardly an "embarrassment" to this fan. But then, I'm not on here nitpicking away at every breath the organization takes.