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Reds Fanatic
08-30-2007, 04:12 PM
Reds Starting Lineup:


Hamilton cf
Gonzalez ss
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Valentin c
Hatteberg 1b
Encarnacion 3b
Belisle p

BRM
08-30-2007, 04:14 PM
Let's rip Gonzalez batting 2nd again...it worked last night!

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 04:14 PM
It worked yesterday...


I hate to see Keppinger lose PT though...

Joseph
08-30-2007, 04:32 PM
It worked yesterday...


I hate to see Keppinger lose PT though...

I'd agree if someone in the lineup wasn't hitting well, but most seem to be of late, even AGon.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 04:32 PM
I'd agree if someone in the lineup wasn't hitting well, but most seem to be of late, even AGon.

Not a bad problem to have, really...

Cyclone792
08-30-2007, 04:39 PM
Things just keep getting interesting ...

The Cardinals have already lost today, 2-1, at Houston. St. Louis is now 64-66, and the Reds now trail the Cardinals by 4.5 games. The Reds sorely need to take care of business and grab a win tonight, and if they can do that then they'll move to within 4 games of the Cardinals heading into the three game series tomorrow night.

No matter what happens in tonight's Cubs/Brewers game, if the Reds can win tonight then they'll be guaranteed to gain ground on two of the three teams they're chasing.

redsmetz
08-30-2007, 04:41 PM
Memo to Matt Belisle: You charted the pitches last night, watched the master at work, even told him you hated him because he made it so easy. Listen, Grasshopper, you have it within you. Use the force, etc. etc. - pitch a heckuva game!

That's sort of like mixing metaphors, isn't it?

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 04:43 PM
http://www.starwars-tw.com/story/character/jedi/yoda_ep1.jpg

RedsManRick
08-30-2007, 04:47 PM
Start batters off with a strike he must.

KronoRed
08-30-2007, 04:47 PM
Swap the 8 and 2 hitters

Let it be done

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Belisle was lights out last outing which scares me for tonight...


Prove me wrong.

Joseph
08-30-2007, 04:49 PM
Not a bad problem to have, really...

Better than the usual problems we have....you know, bad pitching, 4 guys who aren't hitting....bad managing....that kind of thing.

Ltlabner
08-30-2007, 04:53 PM
Start batters off with a strike he must.

Fear leads to anger. Home runs does anger lead to!

Roy Tucker
08-30-2007, 04:57 PM
Memo to Matt Belisle: You charted the pitches last night, watched the master at work, even told him you hated him because he made it so easy. Listen, Grasshopper, you have it within you. Use the force, etc. etc. - pitch a heckuva game!

That's sort of like mixing metaphors, isn't it?

Do or do not... There is no try.

Unassisted
08-30-2007, 06:45 PM
Chicks dig the longball, young Matt. But the ones you should be paying attention to really go wild over a guy who can finish what he starts.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 06:45 PM
Chicks dig the longball, young Matt. But the ones you should be paying attention to really go wild over a guy who can finish what he starts.

Either way, he gets him some :D

pedro
08-30-2007, 07:06 PM
St. Louis already lost

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 07:08 PM
Morris vs Junior...

We've seen this before....

:)

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 07:15 PM
Dunn almost really screwed that up

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 07:17 PM
He DID screw that one up.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 07:18 PM
I guess Marty is being a "bitter old man" in criticizing that play...

pedro
08-30-2007, 07:19 PM
that run would have scored anyway.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 07:19 PM
I guess Marty is being a "bitter old man" in criticizing that play...

Not really. Just saying he's playing out there like he's never played left field before...

pedro
08-30-2007, 07:20 PM
I guess Marty is being a "bitter old man" in criticizing that play...

wouldn't know. I don't listen to marty (because he's a bitter old man)

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 07:23 PM
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/263154/2/istockphoto_263154_a_baseball.jpg + http://www.helenababeruth.com/tips/glove.jpg = http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/John-Wong/Baseball-Glove-with-Ball-on-Dirt-Framed-Photographic-Print-C12746651.jpeg

RFS62
08-30-2007, 07:26 PM
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/263154/2/istockphoto_263154_a_baseball.jpg + http://www.helenababeruth.com/tips/glove.jpg = http://artfiles.art.com/images/-/John-Wong/Baseball-Glove-with-Ball-on-Dirt-Framed-Photographic-Print-C12746651.jpeg



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Nice visual aids.

Tony Cloninger
08-30-2007, 07:31 PM
Matt usually pitches pretty good against PITT.....still suprised that people do not mention Pete doing what Jerry used to....That is...write in whoever plays that position in the same batting order as the previous starter. Meaning...when he would write in Castro at SS and batting 2nd.... AG is where Keppinger was.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 07:34 PM
The big debate...

Griffey says he will hit a triple before Norris Hopper hits an over the fence home run.

redsmetz
08-30-2007, 07:35 PM
Does Marty still have it in for Danny Graves that he couldn't remember he was one of the top saves leaders? The top three are Graves, Franco and Clay Carroll, then the three way tie between Brantley, Dibble and Trivia Question Answer guy.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 07:45 PM
At this point I'd rather see our pitchers just plunk Sanchez than pitch to him.

Cyclone792
08-30-2007, 07:49 PM
Morris has only thrown 31 pitches so far through three full innings as Reds hitters have been hacking a bit so far.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 07:51 PM
That ball couldn't have been any closer to a home run...

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 07:51 PM
Thought Junior had that one.

MrCinatit
08-30-2007, 07:55 PM
Anyone think the lady holding the Pirate flag is a tad bit annoying? I would think it could have the potential to distract the home pitcher with the way she keeps waving it whenever he gets ready to make a pitch.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 08:03 PM
Edwin!

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:03 PM
Dunn missed 3rd base, the play is appealed, and Dunn is out.

Wow.

He's having a bad night.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 08:04 PM
Dunn missed 3rd...

MrCinatit
08-30-2007, 08:04 PM
Pirates appeal that Dunn did not touch 3rd. Ump agrees.
Please insert comments about Dunn's baserunning here.

Ltlabner
08-30-2007, 08:05 PM
That gets a big ole.... huh?

If you want to come in and debate whether we should take Dunns option, chat is open.

;)

Danny Serafini
08-30-2007, 08:05 PM
This is not Adam Dunn's night.

RBA
08-30-2007, 08:06 PM
1-1 or did Jr. not score also on the appeal?

oneupper
08-30-2007, 08:06 PM
Pirates appeal that Dunn did not touch 3rd. Ump agrees.
Please insert comments about Dunn's baserunning here.

Force Play then, right? 1-0 Pirates?

pedro
08-30-2007, 08:06 PM
That gets a big ole.... huh?

If you want to come in and debate whether we should take Dunns option, chat is open.

;)

Not really, the reds would be STUPID to not pick up Dunn's option.

Ltlabner
08-30-2007, 08:07 PM
Not really, the reds would be STUPID to not pick up Dunn's option.

No...the huh was directed at the appeal play.

The question about picking up Dunn option was a joke.

Danny Serafini
08-30-2007, 08:08 PM
Force Play then, right? 1-0 Pirates?

The run still counts, 1-1 game.

oneupper
08-30-2007, 08:09 PM
The run still counts, 1-1 game.

How is that possible?

pedro
08-30-2007, 08:09 PM
No...the huh was directed at the appeal play.

The question about picking up Dunn option was a joke.

I know.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 08:09 PM
nice face plant by the ump

HumnHilghtFreel
08-30-2007, 08:09 PM
:laugh::laugh: sad to say I just laughed pretty hard at him falling up the steps. KARMA!

Danny Serafini
08-30-2007, 08:09 PM
How is that possible?

Going off of MLB Gameday, they say 1-1. My guess is because Griffey scored before the out was made at 3rd base.

Edit: According to radio they've now taken the run off the board, it is indeed 1-0 Pirates. This is just sad.

MrCinatit
08-30-2007, 08:10 PM
Force Play then, right? 1-0 Pirates?

Looks like it. Yikes.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:10 PM
http://www.painetworks.com/photos/fn/fn1551.JPG + http://www.bigleaguestore.com/images/akadema_baseball_spikes.jpg = http://www.artzooks.com/files/2378/AZ276158_320.jpg

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 08:10 PM
now they're taking away the first run? oh for the love of...

PuffyPig
08-30-2007, 08:10 PM
Force Play then, right? 1-0 Pirates?

That would make sense.

oneupper
08-30-2007, 08:10 PM
1-0 Pirates.

pedro
08-30-2007, 08:10 PM
Interesting. We are now playing under protest.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:11 PM
They get no runs...they're saying the Dunn out would have been a force out for the 3rd out...Edwin gets a FC...and the Reds get nothing.

Nice job, guys.

oneupper
08-30-2007, 08:12 PM
Interesting. We are now playing under protest.

I wonder what we are protesting.

Ltlabner
08-30-2007, 08:12 PM
I know.

My bad....sarcasim detector is in the shop for a tune up.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 08:12 PM
I blame Jerry Narron.

oneupper
08-30-2007, 08:13 PM
George and Chris still haven't figured it out.

flyer85
08-30-2007, 08:13 PM
You are taught to hit the inside corner, if you miss the bag you either miss it because you come up short or long. He was not that short or long, the ump has to be saying he missed the corner(which is unlikely)

pedro
08-30-2007, 08:13 PM
I wonder what we are protesting.

whether griffey's run counts or not.

interesting play. never seen that before.

PuffyPig
08-30-2007, 08:14 PM
They get no runs...they're saying the Dunn out would have been a force out for the 3rd out...Edwin gets a FC...and the Reds get nothing.

Nice job, guys.

Dunn was a force out. They touched third before Dunn touched the bag. It's the exact same as if they had hit a grounder to third and he touched the base.

On a force out, it doesn't matter if therun crossed before the out is made.

What amazes me is the announcers don't now the rule, nor did the official scorer.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:15 PM
Dunn was a force out. They touched third before Dunn touched the bag. It's the exact same as if they had hit a grounder to third and he touched the base.

On a force out, it doesn't matter if therun crossed before the out is made.

What amazes me is the announcers don't now the rule, nor did the official scorer.


I got it...I've just never seen it before.

I'm not sure I will ever see it again

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 08:15 PM
Edwin is a getting a huge raw deal here.

jesusfan
08-30-2007, 08:15 PM
Dunn is point shaving...

Doc. Scott
08-30-2007, 08:15 PM
It makes sense to me. If the out would have been a forceout (which it would have since the bases were loaded), then the run doesn't count because the force is the final out of the inning.

If runners had been only on second and third, say, the Griffey run would have counted because then the out at third is treated as if Dunn was advancing at his own risk.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 08:16 PM
http://www.painetworks.com/photos/fn/fn1551.JPG + http://www.bigleaguestore.com/images/akadema_baseball_spikes.jpg = http://www.artzooks.com/files/2378/AZ276158_320.jpg



:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


You're killing me, Matt.

oneupper
08-30-2007, 08:16 PM
Adam Merkle?

Playadlc
08-30-2007, 08:17 PM
Edwin should have had a hit and two RBI's, instead he gets a fielder's choice.

Talk about getting screwed.

KronoRed
08-30-2007, 08:17 PM
I blame Jerry Narron.

Sounds good.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 08:17 PM
Dunn was a force out. They touched third before Dunn touched the bag. It's the exact same as if they had hit a grounder to third and he touched the base.

On a force out, it doesn't matter if therun crossed before the out is made.

What amazes me is the announcers don't now the rule, nor did the official scorer.


Yep.

Edwin really got boned on that one.

PuffyPig
08-30-2007, 08:18 PM
It makes sense to me. If the out would have been a forceout (which it would have since the bases were loaded), then the run doesn't count because the force is the final out of the inning.

If runners had been only on second and third, say, the Griffey run would have counted because then the out at third is treated as if Dunn was advancing at his own risk.


Thta's exactly right.

The announcers are saying the run didn't count becasue Griffey had not scored before Dunn hit third. That's sort of true, because Dunn still hasn't hit third. But on a force play, the timing is not relevant.

CTA513
08-30-2007, 08:19 PM
FSN didn't really have any real good camera angles, but it looked like Dunns left foot was about to hit the inside of the bag before someone blocked the view.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:19 PM
FSN didn't really have any real good camera angles, but it looked like Dunns left foot was about to hit the inside of the bag before someone blocked the view.

It's a conspiracy :D

HumnHilghtFreel
08-30-2007, 08:20 PM
Thta's exactly right.

The announcers are saying the run didn't count becasue Griffey had not scored before Dunn hit third.

So what this really comes down to is Griffey not hustling into home:evil:

jesusfan
08-30-2007, 08:20 PM
2-0 Mil too.... We need to go off and win this game...

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:20 PM
The call is wrong. The runner is not out until, on the following play, the pitcher throws to the third baseman and he tags the bag. At that point Griffey has already scored. Look at it this way: why the necessity for the appeal? Why can't the ump just call the runner out for missing the bag? Dumb call.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:21 PM
Has anyone checked on BadFundamentals?

RedFanAlways1966
08-30-2007, 08:21 PM
FSN didn't really have any real good camera angles, but it looked like Dunns left foot was about to hit the inside of the bag before someone blocked the view.

I wonder too. However, the umpire seems to think he missed it and so did at least one Pirates member b/c they appealed it. If two saw it that way (the only one that counts of course is the man in blue), then I have to lean towards he missed it.

pedro
08-30-2007, 08:22 PM
The call is wrong. The runner is not out until, on the following play, the pitcher throws to the third baseman and he tags the bag. At that point Griffey has already scored. Look at it this way: why the necessity for the appeal? Why can't the ump just call the runner out for missing the bag? Dumb call.

nope. it was force play at 3rd.

MrCinatit
08-30-2007, 08:22 PM
It doesn't seem the Reds were arguing whether or not Dunn had missed the base, either.

I almost feel like I am watching this game on acid.

KronoRed
08-30-2007, 08:23 PM
I almost feel like I am watching this game on acid.

Dock Ellis approved

Puffy
08-30-2007, 08:24 PM
The call is wrong. The runner is not out until, on the following play, the pitcher throws to the third baseman and he tags the bag. At that point Griffey has already scored. Look at it this way: why the necessity for the appeal? Why can't the ump just call the runner out for missing the bag? Dumb call.

Dude, thats not even close to true.

The reason it happens after the play is because, only only because, its an appeal. Its treated as a force play. On a force play it doesn't matter what happens on the play, how long the play lasts, nothing, its all about a simple force out.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:25 PM
It doesn't seem the Reds were arguing whether or not Dunn had missed the base, either.

I almost feel like I am watching this game on acid.

That may make it more interesting....maybe the base could tell us if Dunn's foot stepped on it.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:28 PM
nope. it was force play at 3rd.
Nay. The runner is not out until the ball arrives at the base in question, which happened on the appeal, AFTER Griffey scored. Dunn could have missed the the third base bag, and returned to it, being safe. How many times have you seen a runner miss home plate going by it, then go back and tag it, being safe?

RBA
08-30-2007, 08:30 PM
Once you cross homeplate, you can't go back to a base you missed. You can tag home, if you missed homeplate however.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:31 PM
I'm not talking about Dunn's run I'm referring to Griffey's. It should be a tie game now. It will berectified.

Razor Shines
08-30-2007, 08:31 PM
Nay. The runner is not out until the ball arrives at the base in question, which happened on the appeal, AFTER Griffey scored. Dunn could have missed the the third base bag, and returned to it, being safe. How many times have you seen a runner miss home plate going by it, then go back and tag it, being safe?

Listen to what everyone else is telling you. It was a force out, it does not matter if Griffey scored before they touched the base. Just like an out at first base with 2 outs. The umps got it right, I was hoping for a while that we got a way with one.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 08:31 PM
Nay. The runner is not out until the ball arrives at the base in question, which happened on the appeal, AFTER Griffey scored. Dunn could have missed the the third base bag, and returned to it, being safe. How many times have you seen a runner miss home plate going by it, then go back and tag it, being safe?



Force play.

You're missing the point.

Puffy is *gasp* right

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:32 PM
Then why is an appeal required?

HumnHilghtFreel
08-30-2007, 08:33 PM
Anyone else pick up what a great deke Phillips just tried to pull on the runner? Subtle things like that make him as good as he is.

pedro
08-30-2007, 08:33 PM
Then why is an appeal required?

because you need the ump to confirm that Dunn missed the bag.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 08:33 PM
Then why is an appeal required?

Because that's the rule on a missed base in that situation.

MrCinatit
08-30-2007, 08:35 PM
The tragedy is that Matt has pitched a pretty darned good game - but the offense has shut down since the play, and the defense is what gave up the only run of the game so far.

Check that - this run is Matt's.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 08:35 PM
Anyone else pick up what a great deke Phillips just tried to pull on the runner? Subtle things like that make him as good as he is.
He fooled me for a minute.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 08:35 PM
We should have plunked Sanchez

Red in Chicago
08-30-2007, 08:36 PM
Anyone else pick up what a great deke Phillips just tried to pull on the runner? Subtle things like that make him as good as he is.

I noticed that as well. I was hoping it was going to work

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 08:37 PM
I thought that double by Sanchez could have been caught. Griffey appeared to get a bad break on it.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:38 PM
Because that's the rule on a missed base in that situation.

Nope. The runner is out when the ball arrives at that base on appeal. THAT is when the force out occurs. It is not a request for information from the ump, it is a play where the runner is forced out. THAT is why the appeal MUST be made before the subsequent pitch, because it is all part of the same play. You'll see.

Razor Shines
08-30-2007, 08:38 PM
Is anyone watching the Pirates broadcast? If so did they get an angle of Dunn rounding third? They may have the same footage I don't know.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:38 PM
Nice catch.

He must have looked at my visual aides :D

pedro
08-30-2007, 08:39 PM
Nope. The runner is out when the ball arrives at that base on appeal. THAT is when the force out occurs. It is not a request for information from the ump, it a play where the runner is forced out. THAT is why the appeal MUST be made before the subsequent pitch, because it is all part of the same play. You'll see.

But since it was a force out, the run can't score. Now if it wasn't a force, then you would be correct.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 08:42 PM
Nope. The runner is out when the ball arrives at that base on appeal. THAT is when the force out occurs. It is not a request for information from the ump, it is a play where the runner is forced out. THAT is why the appeal MUST be made before the subsequent pitch, because it is all part of the same play. You'll see.


Ever hear of Fred Merkle?

flyer85
08-30-2007, 08:42 PM
Adam Merkle?as close as that ump was demonstrating the miss to Berry I'm pretty certain the ump really doesn't know if he missed or not.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:43 PM
But since it was a force out, the run can't score. Now if it wasn't a force, then you would be correct.

He is not forced out until the ball arrives at the base... again, Dunn could have run by third, stopped, and returned to third base, and he would have been safe. He is not out when he passes the base, but only when the ball arrives there, which was on the appeal, way after Griffey scored. The appeal is A BALL IN PLAY. BTW are the Reds protesting this game?

RBA
08-30-2007, 08:43 PM
Watching the replay, it's hard to imagine Dunn not touching third.

RBA
08-30-2007, 08:45 PM
He is not forced out until the ball arrives at the base... again, Dunn could have run by third, stopped, and returned to third base, and he would have been safe. He is not out when he passes the base, but only when the ball arrives there, which was on the appeal, way after Griffey scored. The appeal is A BALL IN PLAY. BTW are the Reds protesting this game?

Once he crossed homeplate, he cannot try to returned to a base other than homeplate.

jesusfan
08-30-2007, 08:45 PM
great!

jesusfan
08-30-2007, 08:45 PM
2-2 game... Wait did Phillips miss home???

pedro
08-30-2007, 08:45 PM
He is not forced out until the ball arrives at the base... again, Dunn could have run by third, stopped, and returned to third base, and he would have been safe. He is not out when he passes the base, but only when the ball arrives there, which was on the appeal, way after Griffey scored. The appeal is A BALL IN PLAY. BTW are the Reds protesting this game?

You're wrong. It's a force at 3rd and a runner can not score if the final out of an inning is a force or a fly out.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:45 PM
Reds should be up one now.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:46 PM
2 (4) -2 tie!!

HumnHilghtFreel
08-30-2007, 08:46 PM
And the Reds pull away 4-2... errr oops!

MrCinatit
08-30-2007, 08:46 PM
I could be off base, but maybe looking at it this way will help:

Say the Reds have a man on first and third, two outs.
The man on third tries to steal home - and he gets a huge jump. But, the batter hits the ball to short. The shortstop throws to second for the force out - but the man on third is practically in the dugout. That does not matter, though - the force out has ended the inning. It does not matter how far ahead of the last out that runner scored - that force out ended the inning, taking away any chance at all of that run counting.

A totally different play from what we saw - but the play we saw used the same very basic rules. The force out of Dunn at third cleared away any chance of Griffey's run counting. Unfortunately, a good call by the ump.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:46 PM
Once he crossed homeplate, he cannot try to returned to a base other than homeplate.

I know RBA. My point is the GRIFFEYS run counts, not Dunns.

OnBaseMachine
08-30-2007, 08:47 PM
Bases loaded, 0 outs and Morris has just thrown four straight balls, so Valentin swings at the first pitch which was inside and GIDP. Terrible hitting. If you are going to swing at the first pitch it better be somethign you can hit.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 08:48 PM
Reds should be up one now.



Perhaps an investigation is in order


http://www.britfilms.tv/images/news/clouseau.gif

HumnHilghtFreel
08-30-2007, 08:49 PM
Edwin keeps hitting... and this time it counts!

flyer85
08-30-2007, 08:49 PM
IIRC, Dunn got called out last year for leaving 3rd too early on a sac fly against the Cards. Replays showed he was not even close to leaving early. Generally mssing the base or leaving early is not called unless it is completely clear.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 08:52 PM
Cantu!!

HumnHilghtFreel
08-30-2007, 08:52 PM
Cantu comes through. 3-2 Reds

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 08:52 PM
Can too!

Razor Shines
08-30-2007, 08:53 PM
I could be off base, but maybe looking at it this way will help:

Say the Reds have a man on first and third, two outs.
The man on third tries to steal home - and he gets a huge jump. But, the batter hits the ball to short. The shortstop throws to second for the force out - but the man on third is practically in the dugout. That does not matter, though - the force out has ended the inning. It does not matter how far ahead of the last out that runner scored - that force out ended the inning, taking away any chance at all of that run counting.

A totally different play from what we saw - but the play we saw used the same very basic rules. The force out of Dunn at third cleared away any chance of Griffey's run counting. Unfortunately, a good call by the ump.

Yes you are exactly correct. With you cannot score when a force out ends the inning. It does not matter if the runner crosses home before the force.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 08:57 PM
Yes you are exactly correct. With you cannot score when a force out ends the inning. It does not matter if the runner crosses home before the force.

Wrong. A force happens when the ball arrives at the base, not when the runner misses the bag. HE NEEDS TO BE PUT OUT BY THE DEFENSE, which happened at the moment of appeal.

Razor Shines
08-30-2007, 08:59 PM
Wrong. A force happens when the ball arrives at the base, not when the runner misses the bag. HE NEEDS TO BE PUT OUT BY THE DEFENSE, which happened at the moment of appeal.

Yes and an appeal out is a force out. We agree that the out was made at the time of the appeal. It was a force out, it doesn't matter when Jr. crossed home plate.

Red in Chicago
08-30-2007, 09:02 PM
Nice inning by maj

BCubb2003
08-30-2007, 09:03 PM
Yes and an appeal out is a force out. We agree that the out was made at the time of the appeal. It was a force out, it doesn't matter when Jr. crossed home plate.

This is why you can have a quadruple play. But that's just confusing things.

WVRedsFan
08-30-2007, 09:04 PM
Yes and an appeal out is a force out. We agree that the out was made at the time of the appeal. It was a force out, it doesn't matter when Jr. crossed home plate.

I have no idea, but does anyone know whether or not Mac is playing this one on protest?

Razor Shines
08-30-2007, 09:06 PM
I have no idea, but does anyone know whether or not Mac is playing this one on protest?

I don't know for sure.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 09:08 PM
It has been my understanding that a third out being a force prevents a run scoring only if the out is on the batter heading to first base. Otherwise, it is a timing play, and in this instance, the timing would dictate Griffey scored.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 09:11 PM
It has been my understanding that a third out being a force prevents a run scoring only if the out is on the batter heading to first base. Otherwise, it is a timing play, and in this instance, the timing would dictate Griffey scored.


You misunderstand

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 09:13 PM
Majewski, Bray, Burton, Stormy.

That's your tandem, get used to it.

:)

Razor Shines
08-30-2007, 09:13 PM
It has been my understanding that a third out being a force prevents a run scoring only if the out is on the batter heading to first base. Otherwise, it is a timing play, and in this instance, the timing would dictate Griffey scored.

A force anywhere prevents a run from scoring.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 09:14 PM
Majewski, Bray, Burton, Stormy.

That's your tandem, get used to it.

:)
The occasionally nasty boys?

PuffyPig
08-30-2007, 09:15 PM
It has been my understanding that a third out being a force prevents a run scoring only if the out is on the batter heading to first base. Otherwise, it is a timing play, and in this instance, the timing would dictate Griffey scored.

Lets say instead of hitting he ball into leftfield, EE had hit the ball to the thirdbaseman, who raced Dunn to the thirdbase bag and beat him. Lets also assume that Griffey had reached home prior to the thirdbaseman touching third.

You're saying the run would count because the force out wasn't at first and Griffey scored before thethird out.

That's not correct.That run wouldn't count. A force out is a force out.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 09:15 PM
You misunderstand

If that is the case, then an appeal makes no sense whatsoever. Dunn should simply be called out when he crosses home plate, as he cannot return to third at that point, not on appeal.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 09:16 PM
How many times do second basemen and shortstops pull their foot off the bag before they get the ball (or never even touch the bag) on DP turns.

If umps are going to be picky, they need to be consistent.

Danny Serafini
08-30-2007, 09:18 PM
Majewski, Bray, Burton, Stormy.

That's your tandem, get used to it.

:)

With Majewski picking up the pace like he has lately I can get used to that.

PuffyPig
08-30-2007, 09:19 PM
How many times do second basemen and shortstops pull their foot off the bag before they get the ball (or never even touch the bag) on DP turns.

If umps are going to be picky, they need to be consistent.

The umps "give" on that play to prevent injuries.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 09:20 PM
Well....that's a bummer...

His first mistake in months.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 09:21 PM
damn

left it up over the plate

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 09:21 PM
Pete may have over managed a little there. Not that I completely disagreed with bringing in Burton, but I don't know why he didn't just leave Bray in to face Batista.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 09:21 PM
Reds should still be up by 1...


No, I won't drop it :D

Red in Chicago
08-30-2007, 09:22 PM
jb's not supposed to come in until the 8th;)

Razor Shines
08-30-2007, 09:22 PM
I was getting ready to say that Burton can't go the rest of the season without giving up a run.

Eric_Davis
08-30-2007, 09:23 PM
I watch Bray come out after pitching to one batter, and striking him out and I'm thinking, "This is what Narron used to do to the bullpen and screw it up all the time". Hope it works for Mackinen.

PuffyPig
08-30-2007, 09:24 PM
Pete may have over managed a little there. Not that I completely disagreed with bringing in Burton, but I don't know why he didn't just leave Bray in to face Batista.

If Burton had retired Batista, I doubt anyone would have mentioned leaving Bray in. Batisa has a better chance of going deep vs.Bray.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 09:24 PM
The umps "give" on that play to prevent injuries.

And if Dunn "reaches" to make sure he hits the bag in an awkward stride maybe he pulls a Jason Kendall and breaks his leg.

The point is, that him missing the bag by a millimeter (if he even missed it) gave him no advantage to score in that instance. He would have scored anyway had he touched it.

It just seems like it's a case of an umpire trying to be bigger than the game to make up for a shortcoming somewhere.

Playadlc
08-30-2007, 09:26 PM
Dunn was two days late on that fastball.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 09:26 PM
Dunn was two days late on that fastball.

He thought it was a base :D

PuffyPig
08-30-2007, 09:28 PM
And if Dunn "reaches" to make sure he hits the bag in an awkward stride maybe he pulls a Jason Kendall and breaks his leg.

The point is, that him missing the bag by a millimeter (if he even missed it) gave him no advantage to score in that instance. He would have scored anyway had he touched it.

It just seems like it's a case of an umpire trying to be bigger than the game to make up for a shortcoming somewhere.


A runner should be able to touch the base. If he doesn't touch it, he should be out. A runner doesn't have another runner bearing down on him trying to take him out like a middle infielder.

RedFanAlways1966
08-30-2007, 09:31 PM
The game of inches has also "cost" the REDS two runs... Griffey's double and Valentin's double were both very close to being solo HRs. At least Javier still has a chance to score.

Eric_Davis
08-30-2007, 09:31 PM
Who's going to play 1st Base?

RFS62
08-30-2007, 09:32 PM
Here you go, from the rule book...


7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --
(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;
Rule 7.10(a) Comment: “Retouch,” in this rule, means to tag up and start from a contact with the base after the ball is caught. A runner is not permitted to take a flying start from a position in back of his base.
(b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.
Rule 7.10(b) Comment: PLAY. (a) Batter hits ball out of park or ground rule double and misses first base (ball is dead)—he may return to first base to correct his mistake before he touches second but if he touches second he may not return to first and if defensive team appeals he is declared out at first.
PLAY. (b) Batter hits ball to shortstop who throws wild into stand (ball is dead)—batter-runner misses first base but is awarded second base on the overthrow. Even though the umpire has awarded the runner second base on the overthrow, the runner must touch first base before he proceeds to second base. These are appeal plays.
(c) He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately, and he or the base is tagged;
(d) He fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to that base, and home base is tagged.
Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 09:32 PM
Who's going to play 1st Base?

Dunn :D

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 09:33 PM
Look this is exhausting. :) If the inning ends in a force out then NO runs score in any instance? Is that the rule?

Playadlc
08-30-2007, 09:34 PM
A runner should be able to touch the base. If he doesn't touch it, he should be out. A runner doesn't have another runner bearing down on him trying to take him out like a middle infielder.

Exactly right. An umpire gets paid to do his job. Asking an umpire to not make a correct call because it may not have effected a certain play is simply wrong.

If the Reds lose this game by a run, they have no one to blame but themselves.

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 09:35 PM
Who's going to play 1st Base?
Javier move to first, Ross to catch?

Red in Chicago
08-30-2007, 09:36 PM
Here you go, from the rule book...


7.10
Any runner shall be called out, on appeal, when --
(a) After a fly ball is caught, he fails to retouch his original base before he or his original base is tagged;
Rule 7.10(a) Comment: “Retouch,” in this rule, means to tag up and start from a contact with the base after the ball is caught. A runner is not permitted to take a flying start from a position in back of his base.
(b) With the ball in play, while advancing or returning to a base, he fails to touch each base in order before he, or a missed base, is tagged.
APPROVED RULING: (1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored. (2) When the ball is dead, no runner may return to touch a missed base or one he has left after he has advanced to and touched a base beyond the missed base.
Rule 7.10(b) Comment: PLAY. (a) Batter hits ball out of park or ground rule double and misses first base (ball is dead)—he may return to first base to correct his mistake before he touches second but if he touches second he may not return to first and if defensive team appeals he is declared out at first.
PLAY. (b) Batter hits ball to shortstop who throws wild into stand (ball is dead)—batter-runner misses first base but is awarded second base on the overthrow. Even though the umpire has awarded the runner second base on the overthrow, the runner must touch first base before he proceeds to second base. These are appeal plays.
(c) He overruns or overslides first base and fails to return to the base immediately, and he or the base is tagged;
(d) He fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to that base, and home base is tagged.
Any appeal under this rule must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. If the violation occurs during a play which ends a half-inning, the appeal must be made before the defensive team leaves the field.

Gee, some people just have to be right :p:

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 09:36 PM
CRAZY baserunning tonight!

Danny Serafini
08-30-2007, 09:36 PM
Who's going to play 1st Base?

I'd imagine Keppinger will. Looking it up he played 4 games there with the Royals last year, don't know if he spent any time there in Louisville this year. It's not much, but at least he's got a little experience there.

RedFanAlways1966
08-30-2007, 09:37 PM
The good... single by Edwin ties it as Javier scores.
The bad... Edwin out at 2nd on the cutoff from the outfield.

Playadlc
08-30-2007, 09:37 PM
Good job, EE.

The Reds have shown some nice resiliency here tonight.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 09:37 PM
A runner should be able to touch the base. If he doesn't touch it, he should be out. A runner doesn't have another runner bearing down on him trying to take him out like a middle infielder.

But what if Dunn did touch the bag? How does the ump know for sure? There is no "touch" sensor on the bag. He may have ran by it from the umps perspective and still touched it. A runner may put their foot next to it and still graze it, but appear to miss it from certain angles.

I just think taking two runs from a team that just had a baseloaded single is a bit extreme.

How tough would it be to just look the other way in that case?

And if he misses it obviously, why does the ump need an appeal? The fact that both of those runs score if the Pirates don't appeal just highlights the stupidity of the whole thing. Dumb rule.

RBA
08-30-2007, 09:37 PM
Valentin was a dead duck at home. Luckily they cut it off and went after Edwin.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 09:37 PM
Edwin doing all he can do tonight.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 09:38 PM
Wasn't a bright move the Pirates...

Maybe that's why they haven't been any good in 14 years...

HumnHilghtFreel
08-30-2007, 09:39 PM
I really hope Pete Mac gives Edwin a big pat on the back after this game. It's been crazy.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 09:39 PM
The Kepster at first?

RedFanAlways1966
08-30-2007, 09:40 PM
Valentin was a dead duck at home. Luckily they cut it off and went after Edwin.

The REAL question... did Javier touch 3rd base?!?!? :)

RFS62
08-30-2007, 09:40 PM
Man, what a crazy game.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 09:40 PM
I am still pissed about the 3rd inning call.

Are we winning?

Seriously.

Smiley face.

PuffyPig
08-30-2007, 09:40 PM
But what if Dunn did touch the bag? How does the ump know for sure?

Dumb rule.

So you are saying that the runner doesn't actually have to touch the base. That makes litle sense.

How does the ump now anything? He makes an assessment based on what he saw. I didn't see the play but I assume that Dunn missed the bag and knew it. He didn't argue.

Red in Chicago
08-30-2007, 09:41 PM
But what if Dunn did touch the bag? How does the ump know for sure? There is no "touch" sensor on the bag. He may have ran by it from the umps perspective and still touched it. A runner may put their foot next to it and still graze it, but appear to miss it from certain angles.

I just think taking two runs from a team that just had a baseloaded single is a bit extreme.

How tough would it be to just look the other way in that case?

And if he misses it obviously, why does the ump need an appeal? The fact that both of those runs score if the Pirates don't appeal just highlights the stupidity of the whole thing. Dumb rule.


Are you even serious:eek:

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 09:42 PM
EE should be 3 for 4. Very clutch tonight.

Despite the controversy over THE PLAY, seems like EE should get credit for the hit. We need a category for baserunning errors. THis should be scored a hit, and a two run error on Dunn for missing third. I know EE can't get the RBIs if the runs don't count, but he should get the hit.

C.Trent says it was scored a 1-5 force....weird. The ball was hit to left.....why not 7 to 6 to 1 to 5?

RBA
08-30-2007, 09:42 PM
Umps look the other way all the time in "in the neighborhood" tagging 2nd base double plays.

TeamCasey
08-30-2007, 09:42 PM
This has been an interesting game and game thread. I salute you. :)

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 09:43 PM
So you are saying that the runner doesn't actually have to touch the base. That makes litle sense.

How does the ump now anything? He makes an assessment based on what he saw. I didn't see the play but I assume that Dunn missed the bag and knew it. He didn't argue.

Dumb rule that it takes an appeal. If he misses the base, the ump should call him out. Without an appeal.

Cyclone792
08-30-2007, 09:44 PM
Look this is exhausting. :) If the inning ends in a force out then NO runs score in any instance? Is that the rule?

RFS is right, and you're wrong.

Fred Merkle and the New York Giants had a very similar play happen to them in a late September game against the Cubs. The Giants had Merkle on first base and Moose McCormick on third base in the bottom of the 9th inning in a tie game. Al Bridwell singled to score McCormick to apparently win the game, but Merkle just turned around and ran off the field without touching second base. Fans stormed the field, but Johnny Evers retrieved "a ball" (nobody knows if it was the actual game ball) and touched second base on an appeal. The umpires ruled Merkle out on a force out, which in turn erased McCormick's winning run and left the game tied.

Since fans had stormed the field, the game was called a tie. Shortly thereafter, the Giants and Cubs finished the regular season tied (including the Merkle game being ruled a tie), and they had to play a one-game makeup game. The Cubs won the game, they won the NL Pennant, then they went on to beat the Detroit Tigers in the World Series. And ironically that's the last time the Chicago Cubs have won the World Series.

Had Merkle touched second base, the Giants would have finished a game up on the Cubs at the end of the regular season without a makeup game being necessary, and the Giants would have won the NL Pennant.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 09:44 PM
Nice job by Kepp there.

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 09:44 PM
Thank you, Keppinger

RedFanAlways1966
08-30-2007, 09:44 PM
REDS in games in which the bullpen has recorded a blown save... 8-14 record.

Last 10 games with a blown save... 7-3 record.

RBA
08-30-2007, 09:44 PM
Dumb rule that it takes an appeal. If he misses the base, the ump should call him out. Without an appeal.


I can agree with that. The ump should rule the runner outside the "base paths" as he missed the base. It should be automatic.

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 09:44 PM
I LIKE country Kepp...

Eric_Davis
08-30-2007, 09:45 PM
EE should be 3 for 4. Very clutch tonight.

?

He is clutch.

.333 w RISP

I'd like to see him batting 4th next year like they tried this year before he flopped miserably. He's sure turned that around and taken the next step.

nate
08-30-2007, 09:46 PM
Nice bounce back by Burton there.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 09:46 PM
EE should be 3 for 4. Very clutch tonight.

Despite the controversy over THE PLAY, seems like EE should get credit for the hit. We need a category for baserunning errors. THis should be scored a hit, and a two run error on Dunn for missing third. I know EE can't get the RBIs if the runs don't count, but he should get the hit.

C.Trent says it was scored a 1-5 force....weird. The ball was hit to left.....why not 7 to 6 to 1 to 5?

???????!!!!! Then truly the Griffey run should have counted if they're calling it a subsequent play.

Red in Chicago
08-30-2007, 09:46 PM
RFS is right, and you're wrong.

Fred Merkle and the New York Giants had a very similar play happen to them in a late September game against the Cubs. The Giants had Merkle on first base and Moose McCormick on third base in the bottom of the 9th inning in a tie game. Al Bridwell singled to score McCormick to apparently win the game, but Merkle just turned around and ran off the field without touching second base. Fans stormed the field, but Johnny Evers retrieved "a ball" (nobody knows if it was the actual game ball) and touched second base on an appeal. The umpires ruled Merkle out on a force out, which in turn erased McCormick's winning run and left the game tied.

Since fans had stormed the field, the game was called a tie. Shortly thereafter, the Giants and Cubs finished the regular season tied (including the Merkle game being ruled a tie), and they had to play a one-game makeup game. The Cubs won the game, they won the NL Pennant, then they went on to beat the Detroit Tigers in the World Series. And ironically that's the last time the Chicago Cubs have won the World Series.

Had Merkle touched second base, the Giants would have finished a game up on the Cubs at the end of the regular season without a makeup game being necessary, and the Giants would have won the NL Pennant.

You should be a diplomat:D

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 09:46 PM
Are you even serious:eek:


Dead serious, but I've had a few beers.

I guess my point his that if it's that obvious he missed the base, it should not need an appeal. He is out. Force play, right?

Based on what I saw it was close. He may have put his foot down by the bag and appeared to not touch it, but who knows? He scored easily and would have also had his foot been one atom closer to the bag to "show" Mr. umpire that he touched it.

Taking two runs away (and possibly more -runner on 2nd) from a team there is extreme.

RBA
08-30-2007, 09:47 PM
Maybe MLB should put sensors on the bags to determine if a player touched a bag or not.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 09:49 PM
Umps look the other way all the time in "in the neighborhood" tagging 2nd base double plays.

Exactly.

And I understand as Puffy said it's to prevent injuries.

I just think with a bases loaded single it's perfect time to look the other way.

KronoRed
08-30-2007, 09:50 PM
Maybe MLB should put sensors on the bags to determine if a player touched a bag or not.

Sounds good, less influence the umps have the better

RedFanAlways1966
08-30-2007, 09:51 PM
Maybe MLB should put sensors on the bags to determine if a player touched a bag or not.

Right underneath the Spiderman logo! ;)

RBA
08-30-2007, 09:53 PM
Hot Dog play of the game is given to Bay.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 09:57 PM
Maybe MLB should put sensors on the bags to determine if a player touched a bag or not.

Yes!

With lasers above the field looking down over the batters box and another set from the dugouts so that a 3 dimensional box is present for each hitter.

We can keep the umpires for show. They can wear an earpiece and when the computer sees that a batter has taken a strike in his zone, it can be transmitted simultaneously to the ump so he can ring it up, making everyone feel better that computers have not completely taken over our lives.

Playadlc
08-30-2007, 09:59 PM
YES!

Cyclone792
08-30-2007, 09:59 PM
This is the most ridiculous game I've seen in ages.

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 09:59 PM
Sweet...Gonzo scores on a bloop single to left!

Capps has thrown 27 pitches this inning.

Tom Servo
08-30-2007, 09:59 PM
CLUTCH

RedFanAlways1966
08-30-2007, 09:59 PM
YES!! Texas-league hit for Junior in LF scores Gonzalez with a close play at the plate. :beerme:

RFS62
08-30-2007, 09:59 PM
Geez, I wish something unusual would happen.

redsmetz
08-30-2007, 10:00 PM
Great hustle by Gonzo with the ball falling among three fielders.

Razor Shines
08-30-2007, 10:00 PM
I thought for sure he was gonna be out at home.

CTA513
08-30-2007, 10:00 PM
Some good hustle from Gonzalez to score from first on a bloop hit to left field.

VR
08-30-2007, 10:00 PM
This is the most ridiculous game I've seen in ages.


It seems like the Reds haven't been lucky like that in about 2 years.

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 10:01 PM
Wasn't Jr. supposed to be thrown out at second on that play?

RFS62
08-30-2007, 10:01 PM
Gonzo paid some serious dues there. He was running on the pitch several times as Junior fouled them off.

BCubb2003
08-30-2007, 10:02 PM
If you win a game you were protesting, and you win the protest, do they take the win away?

redsmetz
08-30-2007, 10:02 PM
So for those of you watching the game, could Junior have made 2nd if he'd been running all out on his hit?

Danny Serafini
08-30-2007, 10:02 PM
Gonzo paid some serious dues there. He was running on the pitch several times as Junior fouled them off.

Three in a row. Nice to see he wasn't so gassed that he couldn't come around and score.

Playadlc
08-30-2007, 10:03 PM
Bad walk there.

Javy is about to make this one 9-4.

BuckeyeRedleg
08-30-2007, 10:03 PM
Earlier, Griffey appears to hit a HR, only for it to be called a double. 0 outs.

While on third, with two outs, he appears to score on a single by Edwin, but his run his later nullified on an appeal call on Dunn missing third (after Griffey).

Twice Griffey's run was taken away.

9th inning.

Griffey - bloop single to score Gonzo from 1st.

Karma.

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 10:03 PM
So for those of you watching the game, could Junior have made 2nd if he'd been running all out on his hit?

Easily so....

VR
08-30-2007, 10:03 PM
If you win a game you were protesting, and you win the protest, do they take the win away?

2 wins. We could be 5.5 out after tonight :thumbup:


Marty and Son bashing Jr.

Cyclone792
08-30-2007, 10:03 PM
So for those of you watching the game, could Junior have made 2nd if he'd been running all out on his hit?

If the throw goes home, yes easily.

However, I'm not really sure what may have happened if Junior runs hard, attempts to go to second, and the throw immediately goes to second. He probably makes it in to second regardless of where the throw goes, but I'm not sure it'd be a given if the throw would have gone to second rather than home.

Eric_Davis
08-30-2007, 10:04 PM
Junior hitting .350 in August now.

Phillips .330

Keppinger .391

Edwin .350

Hopper .425

Cantu .438

Valentin .361

redsmetz
08-30-2007, 10:04 PM
If the throw goes home, yes easily.

However, I'm not really sure what may have happened if Junior runs hard, attempts to go to second, and the throw immediately goes to second.

That's what I wondered; the risk of Griffey being thrown out at 2nd.

Eric_Davis
08-30-2007, 10:05 PM
2 wins. We could be 5.5 out after tonight :thumbup:


Marty and Son bashing Jr.


6.5....unless the Cubs can lose 3 games tonight.

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 10:06 PM
So for those of you watching the game, could Junior have made 2nd if he'd been running all out on his hit?

But if Griffey is out at second, the third out, the run wouldn't count....

RFS62
08-30-2007, 10:06 PM
If you win a game you were protesting, and you win the protest, do they take the win away?



I believe they do.

VR
08-30-2007, 10:06 PM
Junior hitting .350 in August now.

Phillips .330

Keppinger .391

Edwin .350

Hopper .425

Cantu .438

Valentin .361

Divide by 2 and you have last August's averages.

OldXOhio
08-30-2007, 10:06 PM
8 men LOB tonight for JV......

MartyFan
08-30-2007, 10:06 PM
That's what I wondered; the risk of Griffey being thrown out at 2nd.You only have a one run lead in the bottom of the 9th if he runs hard and gets gunned out at 2b...now, we have a oner run lead when we could have had a two run lead if he would have legged it out.

Just saying...top of the 9th, you gotta try everything to put the other team away.

WebScorpion
08-30-2007, 10:07 PM
Come on Stormy...make it stand up. :thumbup:

RBA
08-30-2007, 10:07 PM
FSN OHIO/CN must have the worst camera team in baseball. It appears they are one dimensional and don't have anyway of showing us more than one angle other than the reaction of the manager as the play is going on.

Cyclone792
08-30-2007, 10:07 PM
Hopefully Weathers just gets three quick outs and decides to not make it interesting. Get this win and get the heck out of Pittsburgh. I'm sick of the Pirates this season.

pedro
08-30-2007, 10:08 PM
MLB TV decided the game was over when Burton gave up teh HR. Good thing I have extra innings too.

KronoRed
08-30-2007, 10:09 PM
Phillips almost tosses that one into the dugout

Danny Serafini
08-30-2007, 10:09 PM
Sounds like Keppinger is playing some good 1B tonight.

RFS62
08-30-2007, 10:10 PM
Wow, they're trying to kill us

RBA
08-30-2007, 10:10 PM
Close play at 2nd. 2 out double.

RBA
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
TOBTTR!

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cyclone792
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
This is the craziest game I've seen in forever!

mbgrayson
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Holy Crap!!!!!

Reds Win A Really Wild Game!

redsmetz
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Fitting ending to a bizarre game - throwing the runner out at the plate!

RFS62
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Sweet Sassy Molassy!!!!!!

What a freakin' play!!!!!

OnBaseMachine
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Web gem by Phillips. He had better win the gold glove this year.

Wheelhouse
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
WOW.

RBA
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
WEB GEM!

LoganBuck
08-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Wow!!!!!

KronoRed
08-30-2007, 10:14 PM
Thank goodness for 3rd base coaches :D

Matt700wlw
08-30-2007, 10:14 PM
It doesn't get any better than Brandon Phillips.

No better. Period.

redsmetz
08-30-2007, 10:14 PM
Sweet Sassy Molassy!!!!!!

What a freakin' play!!!!!

LOL - :beerme:

Reds Fanatic
08-30-2007, 10:15 PM
Wow Terrific play by Phillips to end the game.

HotCorner
08-30-2007, 10:15 PM
Wow.

:phillips: :notworthy

oneupper
08-30-2007, 10:15 PM
BP upset with the horse play at the end...anyone see with who?

CTA513
08-30-2007, 10:16 PM
Amazing play by Phillips to get Phelps at the plate to end the game.