Who would you rather keep? Griffey or Dunn?

[ChatterRed]

Vote now.

[Jefferson24]

neither. Keep hattey at 1st, play votto in LF, play bruce in RF. Use the extra money on pitching and we might be able to actually post a winning season next year.

[Jefferson24]

For those who argue "were will the offense come from if Griff and Dunn are gone" I ask you this "where has their offense taken us?" How many strait losing seasons till we realize the offense doesn't mater that much. It's ALL about pitching!

[nmculbreth]

I guess it really depends on the time frame. In the short term I think Dunn is the obvious choice but over the long haul I think the answer is probably neither.

First and foremost, the Reds have to pick up Dunn's option. After that I think that trading Griffey during the off season would ultimately benefit both parties. I know that Griffey has a full no-trade clause but I get the feeling that he'd be willing to waive if if he were traded to a competitive team.

After moving Griffey, I'd take my chances with an outfield of Dunn, Bruce and Hamilton in 2008. One can make the argument that none of the above players is a true CF but in the short term I don't have a problem with Bruce or Hamilton playing center. If Bruce and Hamilton perform up to expectations I'd let Dunn walk after the season (and get the comp picks) and look to add a legitimate CF for 2009 and beyond. In the event that Bruce bombs out or the 2007 version of Hamilton turns out to be a mirage, the club can lock up Dunn long term.

[AmarilloRed]

I voted for Dunn. Griffey's contract runs out after 2008, and I would imagine Bruce would be in RF starting in 2009. I would like to see an outfield of Bruce, Dunn, and Hamilton in the future if Dunn is able to be signed to a LTC. I realize Griffey's deferred money could make it difficult for him to be traded.

[redsfanmia]

Trade both and free up a ton of salary and change the culture of the clubhouse.

[redsupport]

griffey should have gone away with the cro magnon man

[DeadRedinCT]

I guess it really depends on the time frame. In the short term I think Dunn is the obvious choice but over the long haul I think the answer is probably neither.

First and foremost, the Reds have to pick up Dunn's option. After that I think that trading Griffey during the off season would ultimately benefit both parties. I know that Griffey has a full no-trade clause but I get the feeling that he'd be willing to waive if if he were traded to a competitive team.

After moving Griffey, I'd take my chances with an outfield of Dunn, Bruce and Hamilton in 2008. One can make the argument that none of the above players is a true CF but in the short term I don't have a problem with Bruce or Hamilton playing center. If Bruce and Hamilton perform up to expectations I'd let Dunn walk after the season (and get the comp picks) and look to add a legitimate CF for 2009 and beyond. In the event that Bruce bombs out or the 2007 version of Hamilton turns out to be a mirage, the club can lock up Dunn long term.

This is my thinking as well.

The class of free agents available after this season is pathetic, so there is nothing to spend the payflex that would improve the Reds for 2008. The free agency class after the 2008 season is another story - there's some interesting players, provided they don't sign extensions with their current clubs.

[bounty37h]

griffey should have gone away with the cro magnon man

I find this response funny, given your name that is, not your "point"...

[Edd Roush]

I'm blown away by the responses on this thread. Just shows how little respect Dunn gets here on the board. Dunner is an integral part of our lineup and I would love to see the Reds bat Votto, Dunn, Griff one two three next year.

I understand that not many managers want to start a game with three straight slow lefties, but considering the OBP Votto and Dunn bring to the table, Griff's RBIs would skyrocket and subsequently the Reds will score even more runs. If 2007 proved anything, it was that Griff could still play ball. I would love for the Reds to start Dunn in left, Hamilton in Center and Griff in right.

Understanding that Griff and Hamilton both have a high probability of going down for a period of time with an injury, Bruce will eventually have his well-deserved chance.

Let's go into 2008 with the same lineup and add in one league average SP and a closer (ie Francisco Cordero). I understand Cordero will command BJ Ryan money, but adding him to our bullpen will help out greatly. Weathers is pushed into set-up duties and Bray and Burton would be solid middle relievers.

If we are going to audition rookies, let's see how Maloney, Cueto and Bailey do in Spring Training. Give them the opportunity to earn a rotation spot.

In fact, I know this would never happen, but I would love to see the Reds shut down Harang and Arroyo for the year and give Maloney and Cueto their rotation spots. Give them some big league experience to add to spring training to add to the sample size to make a rotation decision for next year.

Just my thoughts,

Edd Roush

[BLEEDS]

Seriously? Not ONE vote for Junior? NOT ONE?!?!?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[BLEEDS]

Dunner is an integral part of our lineup and I would love to see the Reds bat Votto, Dunn, Griff one two three next year.

I understand that not many managers want to start a game with three straight slow lefties, but considering the OBP Votto and Dunn bring to the table, Griff's RBIs would skyrocket and subsequently the Reds will score even more runs. If 2007 proved anything, it was that Griff could still play ball. I would love for the Reds to start Dunn in left, Hamilton in Center and Griff in right.

Understanding that Griff and Hamilton both have a high probability of going down for a period of time with an injury, Bruce will eventually have his well-deserved chance.

Let's go into 2008 with the same lineup and add in one league average SP and a closer (ie Francisco Cordero). I understand Cordero will command BJ Ryan money, but adding him to our bullpen will help out greatly. Weathers is pushed into set-up duties and Bray and Burton would be solid middle relievers.


I agree - keep Dunn AND Griffey for 2008.

However, I'd put Hamilton in the lead-off spot, and give Hopper the spot lead-off starts against tough lefties.

Keppinger has got to get a fulltime position - as the full-time SuperSub - and bat 2nd. Best 1-2 positions we've had in awhile.

I would keep Griffey 3rd, but move Dunn down to 4th, and put BP 5th. Dunn gets more pitches to HIT than LOOK at for walks with BP behind him.

After that, you bat whoever is left at 1B/SS/3B depending upon who has the day off for Keppinger to play. Kepp can probably play OF in a pinch as well. Also, I don't have a HUGE problem with batting Gonzo 2nd, it hasn't worked that bad lately. I don't think I'd bat Dunn 2nd, even if his OBP is high. 4th/5th gives him more opportunities to hit with RISP's the problem is giving him lineup protection

Hamilton
Keppinger/Gonzo
Griffey
Dunn
BP
Votto
EE/Gonzo/Keppinger
Catcher - Ross/Valentin (he deserves to get an extension)


In 2009, you replace Griffey with Bruce in RF, and maybe put him or BP 3rd, keeping Dunn 4th, maybe but Votto/BP behind Dunn.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Degenerate39]

Dunn is younger so Dunn

[texasdave]

The Reds have been down this same road every year since 2001. In 1113 games they have scored 5141 runs - a respectable 4.6 runs per game. In that same span they have given up 5858 runs - a nauseating 5.3 runs per game. Keeping Dunn and Griffey for the 2008 season, without significantly improving the pitching staff, promises more of the same. The blame here lies with the Reds' front office, for not substantially improving the pitching staff for seven years running. I truly believe that neither Dunn nor Griffey will be here in 2009. So what makes anyone think that using the same approach again is gonna offer better results? If I were running the club I would try to ink Dunn to an extension, and I would trade Junior. If Adam didn't want to extend with the club, neither he nor KG would be in the 2008 Opening Day lineup. If Dunn turned down a reasonable extension offer it would be time to turn the page.

[Ludwig Reds Fan]

I would ship them both out. Yes I know... "thats crazy!"

But whats the worst that could happen? We miss the playoffs?

[Chi-Town Red]

Dunn..Griffey is way past his prime, and just a average player now at best

[AmarilloRed]

Griffey is still a good player, but the Reds will not pick up his option with Bruce waiting to make the starting outfield. I will imagine that Griffey would start out in the Reds outfield in 2008, and the Reds will seek to trade him to an AL contender by the trade deadline in 2008.

[Edd Roush]

Dunn..Griffey is way past his prime, and just a average player now at best

Are you kidding me? Since when is a .909 OPS average? Stats say it is a 127 OPS+. Griffey is above average and is a hell of a leader. Don't get rid of Griffey, don't mess with our strengths. Unless some one overpays for Dunn, Griff or even Hamilton or Bruce for that matter, you don't deal any one.

Krivsky should re-sign Dunn and go out and get Francisco Cordero. We need a starter, but it will be too expensive to go out and sign one. If we can find a league average starter for a decent cost, let's go for it. I wouldn't mind going into next year with a rotation of Harang, Arroyo and a competition between Shearn, Belisle, Lizard, Cueto, Maloney and Bailey for the last three spots. I really don't think we are too far away.

[Will M]

Griffey is still a good player, but the Reds will not pick up his option with Bruce waiting to make the starting outfield. I will imagine that Griffey would start out in the Reds outfield in 2008, and the Reds will seek to trade him to an AL contender by the trade deadline in 2008.

I would like to see Griffey traded for pitching this offseason. Bruce takes over in RF. I think Hamilton's ideal position is RF but playing CF will be easier if he only has one 'turtle' in LF vs two 'turtles' in LF/RF.

IF ( big IF ) the Reds were offered a good return for Dunn ( ie good pitching ) AND we could sign Cameron to play CF then I would be ok with trading both Griffey and Dunn.

[Carolina Red]

Griffey is still, when healthy, the best player on this team. I would like to be able to keep both but Dunn is not worth the money we are paying him now because we have other, much cheaper options. The player who should be getting Dunn's money is Brandon Phillips. He is the best 2nd baseman in baseball and will be for many years to come. The Reds need to lock him up long term.

[Cicero]

Trade both and free up a ton of salary and change the culture of the clubhouse.

So trading or gettign rid of these two will "change the culture" of the club house? How exactly? What does change the culture even mean in a practical sense? It makes a great soundbyte but in reality the idea is kind of vapid. There is not a culture problem with the Reds, there is a pitching problem with the Reds.

[Orenda]

So trading or gettign rid of these two will "change the culture" of the club house? How exactly? What does change the culture even mean in a practical sense? It makes a great soundbyte but in reality the idea is kind of vapid. There is not a culture problem with the Reds, there is a pitching problem with the Reds.

that sounds about right