9/17/07 vs The Cubbies!

[Matt700wlw]

Hopper cf
Keppinger ss
Griffey rf
Phillips 2b
Dunn lf
Encarnacion 3b
Cantu 1b
Ross c
Arroyo p


EDIT:

WED. game on ESPN...not tonight's

[redsfan30]

ESPN has Monday Night Football tonight....

[Matt700wlw]

ESPN has Monday Night Football tonight....

Maybe ESPN 2...

[Matt700wlw]

George and Jeff...one who isn't afraid to criticize, one who wouldn't criticize a fly...

Keep us posted :)

[Chip R]

Maybe ESPN 2...


I think that's tomorrow night you're thinking about.

[Matt700wlw]

Wednesday's. Sorry.

I read it too fast.



Carry on.

[Red in Chicago]

Tomorrow's going to be a stressful day at work, so I hope the Reds at least bring their A game tonight to make it a little more tolerable.

[Red in Chicago]

Kepp and Griffey having rough September's so far...Going to need their bats to show up this series.

[Red in Chicago]

Kep with a nice triple to right field. One out Griffey up.

[Red in Chicago]

Jr k's...he's got nothin' this month:(

[Red in Chicago]

bp k's as well...:rolleyes:

[oneupper]

BP...from the heels.

[Ltlabner]

Did I hear that the wind is blowing out?

Probably shouldn't make a habit of leaving a guy 90' from home base tonight.

[Matt700wlw]

Error on Griffey....


Griffey is worn out...he's not used to playing a whole season.

[Red in Chicago]

soriano doubles to right center on missed play ball

sorry, single, error

eh, never mind...double

[Matt700wlw]

They changed it....double...no error.

Bad decision.

[mth123]

Jr k's...he's got nothin' this month:(

At least he helps on def... oh wait.

[Ltlabner]

George Gande: "Little ball, that's what Lou Pinella is using....".

As if Theroit planned on hitting a weak grounder to 2nd.

[Matt700wlw]

George Gande: "Little ball, that's what Lou Pinella is using....".

As if Theroit planned on hitting a weak grounder to 2nd.

....and Lee intended on getting plunked

[Red in Chicago]

Ramirez could make this ugly in a hurry

[Red in Chicago]

Ramirez looks at a pitch right down the middle...lucked out there;)

[Red in Chicago]

Arroyo gets out of it. Lou P was upset about the first pitch strike.

[MrCinatit]

Both teams put men on third with one out, and both teams fail to score.

So much for "little ball."

[RFS62]

Error on Griffey....


Griffey is worn out...he's not used to playing a whole season.



He's definitely looking old out there.

[PuffyPig]

Ramirez looks at a pitch right down the middle...lucked out there;)

The 3-0 breaking pitch set up the 3-2 fastball.

Who expected Arroyo to throw a fastball there?

[OnBaseMachine]

Pathetic strike three call on Dunn. Ball was up and away. Questec please. Adam Dunn would walk 150 times a season if MLB used questec. He gets screwed more than anyone in the game.

[Ltlabner]

That was a weak display right there.

[Red in Chicago]

4 k's by the Reds already. I think the bats will catch up to Hill next time around.

[Ltlabner]

4 k's by the Reds already. I think the bats will catch up to Hill next time around.

I was just thinking (right after my last post) that it might be better to go agressive against the "crafty lefty" than lay back.

[Ltlabner]

Freel would have had that one.....except he would have ended up in the RF stands crushing some 86 year old lady.

[MrCinatit]

Noticed yesterday was the Reds' 81st loss of the year.
So much for a winning season this year. Again.

[PuffyPig]

I was just thinking (right after my last post) that it might be better to go agressive against the "crafty lefty" than lay back.

Hill isn't really a crafty lefty, as his 92-93 MPH fastball will attest

[Red in Chicago]

Arroyo gets Soriano to K...no score end of two

[Red in Chicago]

Ross doubles to left

[Red in Chicago]

sac bunt...ross to third one out

[MrCinatit]

Hm. Something wrong with Hill, perhaps?

[Ltlabner]

George Grande reminding us that there are a lot of Chicago Bears fans in Chicago.

[Matt700wlw]

George Grande reminding us that there are a lot of Chicago Bears fans in Chicago.

You don't say....

I would have never guessed such things...

[Ltlabner]

Wow...Cliff Floyd bangs one off his knee, dances almost all the way back to the dougout. That looked like it might leave a mark.

[Ltlabner]

Flash Poll:

Who looks worse in a baseball uni? Pinella or Manuel

[Matt700wlw]

Arroyo squeezed to death....and now gives up a bomb

[Red in Chicago]

Floyd with a 2 run home run:rolleyes:

[CTA513]

Nice home run pitch

[OnBaseMachine]

What in the world happened to the large strikezone? Or is that only against the Reds?

[oneupper]

Arroyo squeezed to death....and now gives up a bomb

I was just thinking the same thing. The "powers that be" must be interested in a Cubs postseason [/conspiracy theory]

[Ltlabner]

Walks will haunt....

:help:

[Red in Chicago]

Wow, nothing like letting the scraps in the lineup take you deep

[CTA513]

Good pitching tonight

[OnBaseMachine]

I predicted that. I told my dad that Arroyo would give up a HR to the lefty after pitching around the righty with two outs. Not very smart pitching.

[Ltlabner]

What's with the triple re-play of the homers on FSN?

Almost feals like the WGN feed.

[oneupper]

I've seen Arroyo do this before. He gets POed after getting squeezed and just throws tehm up there.

[mbgrayson]

I've seen Arroyo do this before. He gets POed after getting squeezed and just throws tehm up there.

He IS being squeezed. I have the game in HD tonight, and there have been several on the corners, none of which were called strikes. On both HRs, Arroyo was down 3-1, after a couple bad calls.

I think the umps get intimidated by the rowdy home crowds at Wrigley.

[OnBaseMachine]

Not a good atbat by Dunn. Took a hanging curveball before chasing a high fastball to K on three pitches.

[Ltlabner]

Not a good atbat by Dunn. Took a hanging curveball before chasing a high fastball to K on three pitches.

Dunner and Jr have both looked kinda ugly tonight.

Plenty of time to redeem themselves.

[OnBaseMachine]

To be fair, Rich Hill owns lefties (.540 OPS against).

[Ltlabner]

To be fair, Rich Hill owns lefties (.540 OPS against).

So far he ain't to shabby against the righties tonight too.

:thumbdown

[Ltlabner]

Flash Poll II

How much longer till the Pats spying on Jets thread is closed down?

[TeamBoone]

WTG, Bronson. Lead-off single to LF.

[TeamBoone]

Bronson scores. Reds down one. Two on; no outs.

Just curious, why wasn't Hopper awarded 2nd on the bad throw? Does it have to go to the dugout for that to happen?

[mbgrayson]

Steal now....before Griffey hits into the 4-6-3.

[Matt700wlw]

Bronson scores. Reds down one. Two on; no outs.

Just curious, why wasn't Hopper awarded 2nd on the bad throw? Does it have to go to the dugout for that to happen?

I believe so

[Kc61]

Steal now....before Griffey hits into the 4-6-3.


Griffey really could have used this game off. Hill is tough on lefty hitters so it would have been a good game for a rest.

[Ltlabner]

Dude behind home plate in the green shirt freaking out over a pitch.

Oh the humanity!

Hahahaha

[Matt700wlw]

Griffey really could have used this game off. Hill is tough on lefty hitters so it would have been a good game for a rest.

Mackanin won't do that...he thinks it isn't fair to the contenders, or the team.

He wants the contenders to play the best he can throw at them, and the key players to play in the meaningful games...


He'll get rest against the Giants and Astros.

[oneupper]

Griffey really could have used this game off. Hill is tough on lefty hitters so it would have been a good game for a rest.

Jason Ellison agrees.

[Matt700wlw]

Nice job, Dunn!

[OnBaseMachine]

Dunn grounds into a FC to give the Reds a 4-3 lead after Phillips singled in a run.

[Ltlabner]

Grande and Cowboy pimping for Dunn big time.

Grande commenting that it's very difficult to replace Dunn's production.

Cowbow pointing out that most sluggers also have lots of K's.

[Matt700wlw]

"Bull S---" chant.

Ha ha FCC...

[TeamBoone]

Hmmmm, has any other announcer mentioned that AD twisted his knee recently? It's the first I've heard of it.

Good hustle to first by AD following the the broken-bat FC (potential DP) to beat it out and allow the run to score.

[BCubb2003]

Bat Arroyo leadoff. He makes things happen.

[Ltlabner]

I missed everything after Dunn's FC. Had to feed the herd.

Did I miss us scoring 4 more times?

[oneupper]

Cantu could not hold up...bites on the slider....

[Ltlabner]

Walks will haunt....

:help:

[Matt700wlw]

Wow! Hopper!!

[OnBaseMachine]

Unbelievable catch by Hopper!

[TeamBoone]

Wow! What a spectacular ivy catch by Hopper! Saved that run!

I couldn't believe it when he came out of the ivy with that ball in his glove.

[nate]

NOHO!

[Ltlabner]

Wow...heckofa catch by Chuck Hopper up against the wall. Nice pick.

[oneupper]

Wow...HOPPER!

[Red in Chicago]

I love that Hop wasn't afraid of the ivy/brick wall. Freel taught him well:p:

[Ltlabner]

Freel would have had that one too. But would have landed in the 1st row and smooshed a little girls ice cream cone doing it.

[Red in Chicago]

Bronson not really fooling anyone this inning

[Red in Chicago]

i hate jacque jones

[TeamBoone]

I thought a runner was out if he's hit by the ball. Or did it hit the ground first?

[Ltlabner]

Wow...what a fluke deal that was.

[CTA513]

Another blown lead.

[Red in Chicago]

why or why is todd coffey warming up?

[Ltlabner]

So DeRosa pretty much stopped and let himself get hit to avoid the out?

Not sure whether I should admire the "quick thinking" or dispise the cheepness of it all.

Oh...wait...it's the Cubs. Yea, he the suck.

[oneupper]

I thought a runner was out if he's hit by the ball. Or did it hit the ground first?

He was hit by the throw, not the batted ball.

Not out, unless it it's intentional.

[Red in Chicago]

arroyo at 83 pitches

[TeamBoone]

He was hit by the throw, not the batted ball.

Not out, unless it it's intentional.

Thanks.

[Red in Chicago]

Phillies killing the Cards and Mets losing. East is getting very interesting.

[Red in Chicago]

Yanks winning and Red Sox losing. AL east getting interesting too.

[Ltlabner]

Ross, inspired by Chuck Hopper's speed, attempts to leg out an infield hit.

Ross = Speed Freak

[TeamBoone]

Two hits for Bronson tonight. Good for him!

[Red in Chicago]

Arroyo 2 - 2...Griffey and Dunn 0 - 6 :confused:

[OnBaseMachine]

1-0 pitch near shoulder height is called a strike on Keppinger. Anythign close on the Cusb has been called a ball.

Kepp RBI single to score Hopper! 5-4 Reds.

[mbgrayson]

Country Kepp a homer shy of the cycle.

[Ltlabner]

Holy crap. Mark Barry takes a chance and Hopper's speed get's him all the way home from first on the Jones dropped ball. I thought for sure they would get him at home by 5 steps. But I forgot who was in CF.

Enjoy the speed while you got it Chuck!

[Red in Chicago]

I sure wish Jr would get out of this funk.

[Ltlabner]

I sure wish Jr would get out of this funk.

For a while there it looked like a lock for #600 this year. He was on a rampage but has been ice cold for a while now.

[oneupper]

Kepp closing in on 200 AB and still over .340
Hopper at 267, hitting .333

Pretty amazing. Not such a small sample anymore.

[oneupper]

For a while there it looked like a lock for #600 this year. He was on a rampage.

1 HR and an OPS of . 539 for Jr in September.

[Red in Chicago]

That will work Jr.:beerme:

[mbgrayson]

Cubs announcer:
"fortunately Griffey was jogging down to second base so he was unable to make it to third..."

[OnBaseMachine]

Dunn swung at balls three and four right there.

[Ltlabner]

How many pitches is Arroyo up to?

[Red in Chicago]

How many pitches is Arroyo up to?

83

[oneupper]

Good job by the REDS getting the lead back. Not all those hits were solid.

[Red in Chicago]

Bronson needs a quick 1-2-3 inning here

[Ltlabner]

Big flap about Lou making double switch after crossing foul line. Apparently a protest has been lodged. Not sure what that means, exactly, but protests are forthwith.

[OnBaseMachine]

Brewers have a 5-0 lead in the 8th. If these scores hold the Brewers will move into first place by percentage points.

[Red in Chicago]

Soriano dragging that leg while running.

[TeamBoone]

Reds playing under protest because Lou crossed the line before actually making the switch. If that's the rule, why did the umpires allow it? Game play had not yet begun for the inning.

[mbgrayson]

Arroyo gone after 89 pitches, 1 out into the 6th.

[Red in Chicago]

Bronson only goes 5 1/3. Not exactly what you need out of your no. 2. Maj time

[Ltlabner]

So what happens when the game is played under protest? Does that mean MLB can come back after the game and make some change to the score, outcome, etc?

Or is it a fancy way to tell the protesting manager "I hear you, you are correct, now get lost" ?

[Kc61]

So what happens when the game is played under protest? Does that mean MLB can come back after the game and make some change to the score, outcome, etc?

Or is it a fancy way to tell the protesting manager "I hear you, you are correct, now get lost" ?

It's a traditional way of trying to get reversal of a loss. (Only matters if you lose.) Used where a rules interpretation issue, not a matter of umpire's discretion.

Never works.

Majewski gets out of inning.

[Red in Chicago]

Maj gets the job done:beerme:

[mbgrayson]

So what happens when the game is played under protest? Does that mean MLB can come back after the game and make some change to the score, outcome, etc?

Or is it a fancy way to tell the protesting manager "I hear you, you are correct, now get lost" ?

Lets just win it anyway so that it doesn't matter.

[Red in Chicago]

Lets just win it anyway so that it doesn't matter.

I'm with you, but it's gonna take a few more runs to get a w tonight

[oneupper]

So what happens when the game is played under protest? Does that mean MLB can come back after the game and make some change to the score, outcome, etc?

Or is it a fancy way to tell the protesting manager "I hear you, you are correct, now get lost" ?

In the Venezuelan Winter Leagues, you'd get a ton of "games under protest". But it's usually when the fans RIOT.

[oneupper]

Votto in...

[BCubb2003]

It's a traditional way of trying to get reversal of a loss. (Only matters if you lose.) Used where a rules interpretation issue, not a matter of umpire's discretion.

Never works.

Majewski gets out of inning.

The Royals won their protest of the Pine Tar Game.

[oneupper]

Ryan Howard with 2 HR to pull ahead of Dunn.

[OnBaseMachine]

Votto tried to check his swing on 3-2 but the ump says he went too far. So the Reds went from having potentially runners on first and second with 0 outs to having a strikeout and doubleplay within about 30 seconds.

[OnBaseMachine]

5-0 Brewers in the 9th.

[oneupper]

Ball bouncing around strangely in the infield tonight. Groundskeeping crew slacking off.

[oneupper]

Stanton in.

[Kc61]

The Royals won their protest of the Pine Tar Game.

Yes they did.

Now that Burton is around to protect the 8th inning, can the Reds survive the 7th?

[Matt700wlw]

They bring in Stanton and the Cubs counter with a righty.

Coffey warming up.


It's crappy pitcher in a tight game night.

[OnBaseMachine]

Doubleplay. Two outs in the 7th.

[Matt700wlw]

Burton warming up

[oneupper]

Kepp for the cycle.

[Matt700wlw]

Reds are playing this game under protest...

[oneupper]

After being down 11-0, Cardinals have made it back to 12-9 vs. PHI.

[TeamBoone]

Would it be a bad thing for PM to let Burton close tonight?

[oneupper]

Would it be a bad thing for PM to let Burton close tonight?

Just thinking that. He required only 11 pitches in the inning that must not be named.

[Red in Chicago]

After being down 11-0, Cardinals have made it back to 12-9 vs. PHI.

12 -10 now

[Red in Chicago]

12 - 11 now:eek:

[Red in Chicago]

is danny graves wearing a phillies uniform:D

[MartyFan]

I agree with Marty and Thom about BP...dude is the leader of this team.

[OnBaseMachine]

I'd give Dunn the day off against Lilly on Wednesday night. He looked awful tonight against the lefties, including two three pitch strikeouts. That atbat against Ohman was particuarly bad.

[Matt700wlw]

Stormy.


Who's nervous?

:wave:

[Red in Chicago]

Stormy.


Who's nervous?

:wave:

everyone wearing red:p:

[OnBaseMachine]

That 2-1 pitch to Ramirez has been a strike on the Reds all night.

[Red in Chicago]

how do you walk a guy in front of lee and ramirez:rolleyes:

[REDREAD]

Well, Tonight, I listened to my first Reds game on radio for a long time.

I must admit it was funny to hear "Love is a b*tch" by the Stones between innings.

The Brennamans were actually ok tonight.. I guess they got worn out by the long season.
Not like their early season bitter form.

[mbgrayson]

Stormy.


Who's nervous?

:wave:

I am.:eek:

[Red in Chicago]

any bets on a three run ramirez home run here

[OnBaseMachine]

Weathers appears to be in full choke mode.

[Red in Chicago]

nice job stormy...what a waste...:rolleyes:

[Matt700wlw]

Yup. David Weathers.

Should have traded his ass in July - let this "coming back to Earth" be somebody else's problem

[TeamBoone]

Ugh! I think Weathers got dissed on that waist-high third "strike" that was called a ball.

[TeamBoone]

Yup. David Weathers.

Should have traded his ass in July - let this "coming back to Earth" be somebody else's problem

That wasn't his fault. It was clearly a bad call.

But I really wish he'd given Burton a try.

[oneupper]

Wonder who didn't see this coming.

[OnBaseMachine]

Weathers chokes. Tie game. That's what happens when you walk weak hitters like Theriot. This team is in serious trouble next year if Weathers is our closer. Should have traded him at the deadline.

[Red in Chicago]

Wonder who didn't see this coming.

apparently pete didn't

[CTA513]

Doing all this and the Cubs will still win.

[oneupper]

Pete doing his little 5 IF thing...

[oneupper]

Hopper just miscalculated his dive...DANG.

[TeamBoone]

Well, I have no expectations of this working.

Yup. What a disappointment.

[Matt700wlw]

Oh well...that was fun

[Matt700wlw]

Pete outsmarted himself...

[flyer85]

at least it didn't go to extras and DW didn't hold the suspense very long.

[Kc61]

Weathers chokes. Tie game. That's what happens when you walk weak hitters like Theriot. This team is in serious trouble next year if Weathers is our closer. Should have traded him at the deadline.

It happens. Weathers has been great, only one game.

I hope I live long enough to see the Reds get back at these annoying teams who keep beating them all the time.

[CTA513]

Solid outing: 0 Innings, 3 Hits, 3 Runs, 2 BB

[OnBaseMachine]

Weathers deserved to lose after walking the bum Theriot to get to Lee and Ramirez. Great pitching Dave. Way to use that "veteran presence."

Should have traded him in July when they had the chance.

[REDREAD]

Pete outsmarted himself...

Well, the Reds are protesting the game, so maybe there's still hope for a victory :lol:

By the way, I can see why Pete would point out the rules violation by Pinella.. I mean, why not? But it's very Mickey Mouse of him to file a protest over it..

[westofyou]

Yeah you stink David weathers (only dependable reliever all season, thanks for nothing you big underpaid lug)

[REDREAD]

Weathers deserved to lose after walking the bum Theriot to get to Lee and Ramirez. Great pitching Dave. Way to use that "veteran presence."

Should have traded him in July when they had the chance.


Yes, too bad our genius GM wasn't even considering offers for our mighty closer.. One of the dumbest non-moves I've seen.

[Matt700wlw]

Usually when managers get "cute" like that...it doesn't work.

[oneupper]

Hate to be a "Conspiracy Theorist", but....MLB bigwigs are happy. Cubbies still in first.

[traderumor]

Weathers has a really bad habit of walking the first batter. Man, throw a lollipop to Theriot and take your chances. He must have very little left in the tank. It's September, flip flop Weathers and Burton.

[Matt700wlw]

Yes, too bad our genius GM wasn't even considering offers for our mighty closer.. One of the dumbest non-moves I've seen.

I think that's more the thing....if they got offers, but it wasn't enough, ok...you keep him.

They pulled him off the market....that's what I don't get.

[traderumor]

Well, the Reds are protesting the game, so maybe there's still hope for a victory :lol:

By the way, I can see why Pete would point out the rules violation by Pinella.. I mean, why not? But it's very Mickey Mouse of him to file a protest over it..What is this about?

[REDREAD]

I think that's more the thing....if they got offers, but it wasn't enough, ok...you keep him.

They pulled him off the market....that's what I don't get.

I agree with that.. Obviously, you don't give Weathers away,
but when it's reported that Wayne refused to even put Weathers on the table.. that's just plain crazy.

[oneupper]

Hey...we can still win the protest.

[PuffyPig]

This is the first games the Reds have lost in which they have lead going into the 9th since Weathers became the closer last year after Gardado was injured.

His blown saves have either been in the 8th or the Reds have rallied and won.

[flyer85]

They pulled him off the market....that's what I don't get.
can't trade the closer for next year. :p:

[Matt700wlw]

What is this about?

Something about Lou crossing the coaching box before telling the ump about a double switch.

The ump let it go, but it is a rule violation -- I don't know why, but it is.

[smith288]

Burton is closer material. I dont see why we cant try him out for the rest of the way. He has the attitude.

[REDREAD]

What is this about?

Lou didn't tell the ump about a double switch before he crossed the foul line. Technically, he shouldn't have been allowed to double switch. Pete pointed it out. The ump allowed it anyway.
The Reds decided to play the game under protest because of that.

It just seemed like a very petty thing to do, considering that there's no chance at all of the league upholding the protest.

[traderumor]

Lou didn't tell the ump about a double switch before he crossed the foul line. Technically, he shouldn't have been allowed to double switch. Pete pointed it out. The ump allowed it anyway.
The Reds decided to play the game under protest because of that.

It just seemed like a very petty thing to do, considering that there's no chance at all of the league upholding the protest.
If its clearly a rule violation but the ump takes the "we're all friends here, right?" approach, then it should be upheld. Doesn't mean that will be the result, but the protest seems fair. While the rule may seem stupid and petty, I imagine there is a historical basis for its inclusion.

[TeamBoone]

If its clearly a rule violation but the ump takes the "we're all friends here, right?" approach, then it should be upheld. Doesn't mean that will be the result, but the protest seems fair. While the rule may seem stupid and petty, I imagine there is a historical basis for its inclusion.

Agreed. He broke the rule. Period.

And filing the protest is not petty. Managers do this all the time... though I've rarely seen anything change as a result of it.

FWIW, Lou would have done the same thing.

[flyer85]

I imagine there is a historical basis for its inclusion.I remember a few years back in a game in Chicago, Dusty tried to do a double switch without coming out and just signaling the ump by flipping his fingers and the HP ump didn't do a double switch.(IIRC, it was CB)

[Matt700wlw]

What does that mean "play under protest?"

Can it mean that the Reds win this game?



If not...it's stupid

[Matt700wlw]

can't trade the closer for next year. :p:

If he's the closer next year, this team has problems.

[flyer85]

What does that mean "play under protest?"

Can it mean that the Reds win this game?



If not...it's stupidIf a protest is upheld, the game will be replayed from the point of the protest.

[flyer85]

If he's the closer next year, this team has problems.this team has problems regardless if Weathers is the closer.

[westofyou]

If its clearly a rule violation but the ump takes the "we're all friends here, right?" approach, then it should be upheld. Doesn't mean that will be the result, but the protest seems fair. While the rule may seem stupid and petty, I imagine there is a historical basis for its inclusion.

If he doesn't get the Double Switch and then he loses the lineup bump that likely helped later in the game.

The rule probably has something to do with the fact that it occurs under the guise of a trip to the mound and with the lineup change it should take place with the officials before the crowd is to witness any changes. Thus it is all in the up and up and doesn't cause a stir if there is a problem with the change in the middle of the field, in the midst of the games flow and action.

[VR]

How many BS for Arroyo's starts this year? 5+?

[WVRedsFan]

I know it's far too late to be disappointed, and we should be used to bad decisions after 3+ seasons of interim managers who become permanent managers, but it has to be obvious to most men and women on the street that David Weathers is worn out. He's pitched far too much far too often. There is nothing left in the tank. He's been slowly deteriorating since about mid-August, getting hit hard in most appearances with only a spectacular play by this player or that player occasionally bailing him out. Last week's meltdown in St. Louis should have been a sign to Macklanin, but no. Tonight's leadoff walk should have been another, but no.

Mackanin reminds me of a lot of managers who 1) have what they consider their closer, 2) use him in every closing situation regardless of how he's pitching, and 3) stick with him until the game is lost. It was obvious to me that the same DW who pitched in St. Louis last week was back again tonight after the first two batters (heck, after the first). This does not take away from what he has done this season, but as his ERA rises from near 3 to near 4 and over, it might ruin his season and the Reds' hopes of overtaking the Cardinals.

But, who cares anyway? This loss means nothing in the whole scheme of things. I just hate to give one away when there is no need for it. Burton should have closed or anyone else. Trouble was, DW was Pete's closer and by god, he was gonna close it!

[Matt700wlw]

If a protest is upheld, the game will be replayed from the point of the protest.

Well, that would be fun


:D

[westofyou]

Well, that would be fun


:D

Yeah, we can all get together again and complain.

Good times...

[traderumor]

Dare to dream that the Reds win the protest, the continuation of the game takes place after the last day of the season, the Cubbies need to win or they lose the division, and the Reds hold on in the do-over. A perfect ending for those "lovable" fans of the "lovable" losers.

[Sea Ray]

I know it's far too late to be disappointed, and we should be used to bad decisions after 3+ seasons of interim managers who become permanent managers, but it has to be obvious to most men and women on the street that David Weathers is worn out. He's pitched far too much far too often. There is nothing left in the tank. He's been slowly deteriorating since about mid-August, getting hit hard in most appearances with only a spectacular play by this player or that player occasionally bailing him out. Last week's meltdown in St. Louis should have been a sign to Macklanin, but no. Tonight's leadoff walk should have been another, but no.

Mackanin reminds me of a lot of managers who 1) have what they consider their closer, 2) use him in every closing situation regardless of how he's pitching, and 3) stick with him until the game is lost. It was obvious to me that the same DW who pitched in St. Louis last week was back again tonight after the first two batters (heck, after the first). This does not take away from what he has done this season, but as his ERA rises from near 3 to near 4 and over, it might ruin his season and the Reds' hopes of overtaking the Cardinals.




I agree. The way Mackanin has used Weathers is inexcusable. Easily his biggest issue as manager of this team. He's overused this upper 30s arm.

[westofyou]

I agree. The way Mackanin has used Weathers is inexcusable. Easily his biggest issue as manager of this team. He's overused this upper 30s arm.

He's pitched 46% of his innings since Mackanin took over, with only 6 appearances since August ended. In his appearances under Mackanin he went over 1 inning 5 times, with Narron he went over 1 IP 13 times.

I know who'd I'd point my finger at in any "tired" arm accusations

[Sea Ray]

He's pitched 46% of his innings since Mackanin took over, with only 6 appearances since August ended. In his appearances under Mackanin he went over 1 inning 5 times, with Narron he went over 1 IP 13 times.

I know who'd I'd point my finger at in any "tired" arm accusations


How many times has Mackanin used him in non save situations? That's what I have a problem with. If you want to compare Mackanin's choices to Narron's have at it but Narron's choices got him fired. I've got higher standards for Mackanin.

[redsfan4445]

why didnt he walk the bases loaded? why pitch to a guy 4 for 4??? oh well maybe next year WINNING is the priority!!

[WVRedsFan]

I agree. The way Mackanin has used Weathers is inexcusable. Easily his biggest issue as manager of this team. He's overused this upper 30s arm.

I hear ya.

In the last 10 games he's pitched (since Aug. 21st), he's pitched 9 innings, giving up 12 hits and 6 runs, all earned for a 5.40 ERA. But it's been the last five games that tell the story. IN those 5 games he's pitched 4 innings, allowed 9 hits and the same 6 runs, walked 5, and only struck out one. His ERA over this period (Since September 1st) is 13.50. His season ERA has swelled from 3.21 only a couple of weeks ago to 3.84 and going up. Wouldn't a reasonable man when faced with those statistics try someone else in a game in Chicago on September 17, 2007?

JMO.

[mbgrayson]

on the protest from C. Trent:


Mackanin on the protest: "I think they’re wrong. As far as I understand the rule, the manager must go directly to the home plate umpire to make a double switch, if he does not and he goes toward the mound and crossed the line, he cannot double switch, he has to go directly to the umpire. I told him I disagreed with his decision and I’m going to protest the game.

"He said he can do that, and I told him I don’t believe you’re right. I don’t agree with you, I think you’re wrong. He has to go directly to the home plate umpire to make a double switch. That’s the way I perceive the rule. First of all, he was kind of taking his time, to give his pitcher time, OK fine, but he was 10-12-15 feet toward the mound and then turned around and said I’m going to double switch. You have to go directly to the guy, as far as I understand the rule to be. He didn’t do that. They allowed him to. I think they disregarded the rule for whatever reason, perhaps there’s something in there I don’t understand, but from how I read, that’s the way it reads."

Mackanin on if he'd seen that before: "Many years ago, that’s what I knew the rule, because it happened to me a long time ago. Experience is your best teacher."

This from the pool reporter: home plate umpire Rick Reed said a manager only needs to come directly to the umpire when it is the manager's second visit to the mound. It isn't required on his first visit and it was Piniella's first visit.

Reed read from the Umpire's Manual book, citing rule 3.5: "There is no requirement for the manager or coach to announce to the umpire before crossing the foul-line (on the first visit), so we're covered."

[M2]

He's pitched 46% of his innings since Mackanin took over, with only 6 appearances since August ended. In his appearances under Mackanin he went over 1 inning 5 times, with Narron he went over 1 IP 13 times.

I know who'd I'd point my finger at in any "tired" arm accusations

I blame no one. Weathers hits a spell each season where he's dogmeat. This year it's in September.

[WVRedsFan]

I blame no one. Weathers hits a spell each season where he's dogmeat. This year it's in September.

And you are correct, as usual.

But, my question still goes unanswered. Why would Mac bring him in a game saving situation knowing how he's pitching at this point in time (child of the Nixon era -- Mea Culpa)?

Habit? Following the script? Stupid? Not paying attention? Doing what he always does? It just makes no sense and that applies to more than just Mac. It's all of them and it drives me crazy.

[oneupper]

You can't pin this one on Mac. And not even on Weathers. They did what they have done so many times before successfully.

Mac called in Stormy, who has been very good this year and yes, he probably knew Weathers had been shaky the last couple of times and yes...he was probably due, but 99.9% of managers make that same call.

Weathers did what he usually does, made it interesting and made the hitters (sans Theriot. who worked his AB) put it in play. Not quite as sharp...and a slicer by a good hitter just gets by Hopper.

Sometimes you just...lose.

Reminds me of the part in Groundhog Day when Bill Murray tries to change the course of events to avoid the homeless guy from dying. No matter what he does...the guy just dies. It was his time.

Here are some positives from the game:

1. REDS bats look a bit more alive after two dismal days in Milwaukee
2. REDS score some runs off and almost beat a lefty starter (and a good one, at that)
3. A couple of troubled relievers (Stanton, Majic) have good outings.
4. Keppinger is a homer away from the cycle
5. Arroyo wasn't abused
etc. etc.

[GAC]

You can't pin this one on Mac. And not even on Weathers. They did what they have done so many times before successfully.

Mac called in Stormy, who has been very good this year and yes, he probably knew Weathers had been shaky the last couple of times and yes...he was probably due, but 99.9% of managers make that same call.

Weathers did what he usually does, made it interesting and made the hitters (sans Theriot. who worked his AB) put it in play. Not quite as sharp...and a slicer by a good hitter just gets by Hopper.

Sometimes you just...lose.

Reminds me of the part in Groundhog Day when Bill Murray tries to change the course of events to avoid the homeless guy from dying. No matter what he does...the guy just dies. It was his time.

Here are some positives from the game:

1. REDS bats look a bit more alive after two dismal days in Milwaukee
2. REDS score some runs off and almost beat a lefty starter (and a good one, at that)
3. A couple of troubled relievers (Stanton, Majic) have good outings.
4. Keppinger is a homer away from the cycle
5. Arroyo wasn't abused
etc. etc.

Good post. The guy hasn't had a blown save in almost 2 months. He had already used Majewski, Stanton, and Burton over the last 2.2 innings inwhich they gave up a grand total of 2 hits and zero runs.

Weathers is your closer and overall done a very admirable job overall. If they had brought in anyone else, maybe Eddie or Coffey, and got the same results, then people would have been asking "Why no Weathers?"

[GAC]

How many times has Mackanin used him in non save situations?

But you have to look at how long (innings-wise) between save situations does your closer get to throw. You can't utilize him only in a save situation. You talk to any closer and they'll tell you it's better for them to get to throw on a consistent basis rather then having to possibly wait for a save situation to appear. It might be several days then before he gets into a game. Do you want to bring your closer in in a situation like that when he hasn't pitched in several days?

[Chip R]

By the way, I can see why Pete would point out the rules violation by Pinella.. I mean, why not? But it's very Mickey Mouse of him to file a protest over it..


Something similar happened a couple of years ago between the same two teams. Big Dust didn't go to the ump before he made a double switch and the Reds noticed it, called him on it and the umps disallowed the double switch. He got mad, the fans started throwing garbage on the field and the Reds won. Good times.

[westofyou]

I blame no one. Weathers hits a spell each season where he's dogmeat. This year it's in September.

But if you don't blame someone then no one gets fired, plus we miss out on the chorus of "I told ya so's"

[westofyou]

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

Pete on not walking DeRosa: "I don’t like to load the bases if I don’t have to. That puts more pressure on the pitches. If there’s an open base, they can pitch like there’s two strikes and you have an option. IF he gets that guy, I have an option on the next guy.

"Any time you walk the bases loaded, it makes it very difficult to for that pitcher to make perfect pitches, which he has to. If you’ve got a man on third with nobody out in the bottom of the ninth inning of a tie ballgame, you’re in trouble. You have to figure out the best way you can to win the game. Unfortunately that ball ticked off of Weathers’ glove. If he catches it or doesn’t hit his glove, we’ve got a chance."

Weathers on the same subject: "Right-handed hitter, the competitor in me wanted to go after Daryl Ward, you can get a foul ball or strike out. With DeRosa we did what we wanted, I just have to make the play. Or at least get my glove out of the way because it was right to Brandon."

Weathers: "It was a terrible outing. I just felt like from the first pitch on, I struggled and I couldn’t throw the ball where I wanted. I felt rusty. I just didn’t get it done, that’s the bottom line."

[KittyDuran]

Poor Bronson... Trent mentioned that he was a victim of a 5th blown save - but he should have won 7 games.

4/9 - 7 innings of 2 run baseball - Saarloos takes the loss
4/19 - blown save
4/25 - 7 innings of 1 run baseball - Saarloss again takes the loss
6/29 - blown save
7/27 - blown save
8/28 - blown save
9/17 - blown save

:( :( :(

[Ron Madden]

Baseball is a funny game, sometimes you just get beat.