Adam Dunn and a LTC

[AmarilloRed]

It would seem that with the trade of Hamilton, there will be more pressure on the Reds to sign Adam Dunn to a LTC. Jay Bruce most likely will take over for Hamilton in center, and not replace an aging Griffey in right. We might have Griffey stay on with an added option year in 2009, but we could just as easily buy him out. Freel and Hopper are both reserve outfielders and should not be starting 162 games, so it is just as likely we could sign the likes of Cameron to a short deal.

More importantly, we now really need to sign Adam Dunn to a LTC. Bruce is now going to be the only guaranteed starting outfielder in 2009, and our lack of starting outfielders will now become apparent. Dickerson can play some good defense, but he is not enough a good enough hitter to make it as a starting outfielder. We should have tried to sign Dunn to a LTC earlier, because with the sort of contracts bad corner outfielders got, we now could very well pay Adam Dunn 16-20 million a year if he does not give us a hometown discount.

[Jefferson24]

15 a year for 4 years would be nice, but I bet it takes more than that.

[TN Red Fan]

Dunn isn't out of the woods yet, I'd say.

If we fall out of the race, I could see Dunn's name come up in trade talks at the deadline.

Why not get something in return? Even if you trade him you'll have the opportunity to bring him back in the open market. The advantage is that in the open market, you get to choose between Dunn and every other $15-20 million/year outfielder that might be available.

Also, what if Hopper bats .330 again? Is he still a reserve outfielder? That would give him four seasons of .310/.340/.330/.330, including AAA. IMO, that's a scenario that would change things.

I say start negotiations, but don't solidify anything until next year.

When you're a small-market team, you have to be constantly looking for value. You can't allow yourself to get attached to players. Dunn's a great power hitter and will deserve every dollar he gets, but he's not going to give you good value.

[donnelly_31]

Why is Hopper definitely a reserve OF'er? The guy hit over .300! and is the closest thing the Reds have to a traditional leadoff-type hitter. This line up has plenty of HR power already and not enough set the table kind of guys.

[TN Red Fan]

Why is Hopper definitely a reserve OF'er? The guy hit over .300! and is the closest thing the Reds have to a traditional leadoff-type hitter. This line up has plenty of HR power already and not enough set the table kind of guys.

People don't believe in Hopper. IMO, it's a long-standing prejudice against older prospects which isn't necessarily warranted. If Hopper was 23 and had come off a .330 season after hitting .310 and .340 in his previous two seasons in AAA, people would like him a lot better.

I remember when I was in little league, I had a coach who was a star ball-player for a small local college (Washington & Lee). The Reds came to town with one of those open tryouts that teams do and a lot of guys, including my coach, went to try out. He was a 5-tool outfielder and the scout there said they would have signed him except he was too old. He was 22!

[jmac]

we now could very well pay Adam Dunn 16-20 million a year if he does not give us a hometown discount.

I still believe Dunn is the kind that would take a "discount" to play here. Dont know for sure but just a guess.
I also read where Votto made a comment like he would like to play entire career with reds. His opinion may change but it sounded nice anyway.

[Mr.MojoRisin]

I like Dunn, I think he still has alot of potential. I'd hate to see them get rid of him just yet.

[*BaseClogger*]

Somebody made a great point that if Dunn won't sign a LTC, we could trade him at the allstar break for a ML-ready OF prospect...

[ChatterRed]

People don't believe in Hopper. IMO, it's a long-standing prejudice against older prospects which isn't necessarily warranted. If Hopper was 23 and had come off a .330 season after hitting .310 and .340 in his previous two seasons in AAA, people would like him a lot better.

I remember when I was in little league, I had a coach who was a star ball-player for a small local college (Washington & Lee). The Reds came to town with one of those open tryouts that teams do and a lot of guys, including my coach, went to try out. He was a 5-tool outfielder and the scout there said they would have signed him except he was too old. He was 22!


Keppinger is another good example. A 26-27 year old "just made it to the majors, but produced in the minors" player seems to be written off all the time. A team could get 5 good seasons out of a player like that. It seems that every team is looking for the 21-23 year old phenom and tend to overlook solid players just because of their age.

I agree with what you said.

[*BaseClogger*]

People don't believe in Hopper. IMO, it's a long-standing prejudice against older prospects which isn't necessarily warranted. If Hopper was 23 and had come off a .330 season after hitting .310 and .340 in his previous two seasons in AAA, people would like him a lot better.

I remember when I was in little league, I had a coach who was a star ball-player for a small local college (Washington & Lee). The Reds came to town with one of those open tryouts that teams do and a lot of guys, including my coach, went to try out. He was a 5-tool outfielder and the scout there said they would have signed him except he was too old. He was 22!

This is because guys tend to do better once they have played at the same level in the minors for a couple of years and their numbers are taken with a grain of salt. Usually, they don't pan out, so why wouldn't we want them to prove it for me than one season?

[Jay Bruce]

People don't believe in Hopper. IMO, it's a long-standing prejudice against older prospects which isn't necessarily warranted. If Hopper was 23 and had come off a .330 season after hitting .310 and .340 in his previous two seasons in AAA, people would like him a lot better.


I believe that Hopper relied too much on luck last year to consistently hit in the .330 range. His BABIP last year was .369, an unsustainable number next year. With average luck, his BABIP should have been around .320, which is 0.197 (his Line Drive %) plus 0.120.

In addition, a large contingent of his hits were of the drag bunt variety. Eventually teams will start to specifically defend against this, and the bunt will become less successful in the process. When you add in his lack of power, you have a player with a very low margin of error needed to be an effective hitter. His speed and defense make him a good backup, but I would not counton him to be anything more than that.

[*BaseClogger*]

I believe that Hopper relied too much on luck last year to consistently hit in the .330 range. His BABIP last year was .369, an unsustainable number next year. With average luck, his BABIP should have been around .320, which is 0.197 (his Line Drive %) plus 0.120.

In addition, a large contingent of his hits were of the drag bunt variety. Eventually teams will start to specifically defend against this, and the bunt will become less successful in the process. When you add in his lack of power, you have a player with a very low margin of error needed to be an effective hitter. His speed and defense make him a good backup, but I would not counton him to be anything more than that.

this coupled with below-average plate discipline...

[TN Red Fan]

In addition, a large contingent of his hits were of the drag bunt variety. Eventually teams will start to specifically defend against this, and the bunt will become less successful in the process. When you add in his lack of power, you have a player with a very low margin of error needed to be an effective hitter. His speed and defense make him a good backup, but I would not counton him to be anything more than that.

Being a threat to bunt is a huge advantage. Show bunt on the first pitch and you effectively remove the 3B from the defense, which helps baserunners. The pitcher and catcher are rattled (as a former catcher, I know). What you lose in effectiveness of the bunt you gain in base hits.

And power is wasted in the leadoff spot.

Hopper is best used in a platoon. He hit .390 against lefties. Adjust that all you want, it's still an incredible number.

[Natty Redlocks]

I believe that Hopper relied too much on luck last year to consistently hit in the .330 range. His BABIP last year was .369, an unsustainable number next year. With average luck, his BABIP should have been around .320, which is 0.197 (his Line Drive %) plus 0.120.

In addition, a large contingent of his hits were of the drag bunt variety. Eventually teams will start to specifically defend against this, and the bunt will become less successful in the process. When you add in his lack of power, you have a player with a very low margin of error needed to be an effective hitter. His speed and defense make him a good backup, but I would not counton him to be anything more than that.

I agree with this assessment. However, I have a feeling the plan is to keep Bruce in Louisville until "someone" gets injured, and have Hopper and Freel share CF/leadoff duties. We need that speed at the top of the lineup, dude.

People need to prepare themselves to see Bruce treated just like Votto was last year.

[TN Red Fan]

this coupled with below-average plate discipline...

How's that?

[*BaseClogger*]

How's that?

pitchers adjust...hopper chases...batting average suffers

[*BaseClogger*]

I agree with this assessment. However, I have a feeling the plan is to keep Bruce in Louisville until "someone" gets injured, and have Hopper and Freel share CF/leadoff duties. We need that speed at the top of the lineup, dude.

People need to prepare themselves to see Bruce treated just like Votto was last year.

Why?

[TN Red Fan]

pitchers adjust...hopper chases...batting average suffers

No, no. How do you come to the conclusion that he doesn't have any plate discipline? His BB/K numbers have been respectable throughout his career.

[*BaseClogger*]

No, no. How do you come to the conclusion that he doesn't have any plate discipline? His BB/K numbers have been respectable throughout his career.

he doesn't have to strikeout to show that he has a lack of plate discipline. He reaches and grounds out instead of striking out, it doesn't make a difference. The guy saw 3.2 pitches per PA in 2007...

[Dracodave]

No, no. How do you come to the conclusion that he doesn't have any plate discipline? His BB/K numbers have been respectable throughout his career.

Pitchers Per At-bat. A high contact rate and half way decent walk rate means that you'll get the impression of plate discipline, but compare him to someone like Dunn who will see more than 3/4 pitches per at bat on a constant basis.

[TN Red Fan]

he doesn't have to strikeout to show that he has a lack of plate discipline. He reaches and grounds out instead of striking out, it doesn't make a difference. The guy saw 3.2 pitches per PA in 2007...

OK

[Natty Redlocks]

Why?

Well, you of all people should agree we need whatever speedy guys we have up there before that base-cloggin' Adam Dunn comes up and gets in the way.

[*BaseClogger*]

Well, you of all people should agree we need whatever speedy guys we have up there before that base-cloggin' Adam Dunn comes up and gets in the way.

But I love clogging the bases, it's one of my hobbies! :laugh:

[_Sir_Charles_]

pitchers adjust...hopper chases...batting average suffers

You do realize that HOPPER can adjust too, right? He can certainly become more patient at the plate, just like he can learn to be a better basestealer.

But in regards to a LTC for Dunn....what about the upcoming Phillips LTC? Will we be able to handle BOTH big deals? If it came down to a choice....I'd have to lean towards Brandon. We've got some promising young OF's coming up.

[*BaseClogger*]

You do realize that HOPPER can adjust too, right? He can certainly become more patient at the plate, just like he can learn to be a better basestealer.

But in regards to a LTC for Dunn....what about the upcoming Phillips LTC? Will we be able to handle BOTH big deals? If it came down to a choice....I'd have to lean towards Brandon. We've got some promising young OF's coming up.

It has been pretty much proven that players don't just suddenly increase patience at the plate...

Phillips is still under control for a couple more years... Unless he takes a huge hometown discount I'd rather have Dunn because Phillips is OVERRATED and therefore cost more than his value...

[_Sir_Charles_]

I'll give you that in regards to learning patience. But still, the threat of that bunted single forces the defense to do so many different things its ALWAYS a good thing to have that threat. If they charge, the odds to slap a single past them is much higher, if they hesitate to charge...he's quick enough to still beat it out. There are "some" good fielding pitchers out there, but they're far from common. I don't see his average dropping much due to pitchers changing their tactics against him.

As for Phillips....I certainly don't consider him overrated at all. He has improved in nearly every season he's been in the bigs. Offensively and defensively. Right now I'd say he's the most complete secondbaseman in the NL.

As for the Dunner....I've always liked him, more than most people. Yes he K's a lot, but his plate discipline is better than most people realize. A LOT of those walks are NOT intentional. His avg made some solid strides last year too. But defensively...*sigh*...that's just the killer. I thought for a long time that we should try him at first but I've since learned that we actually did that several years ago without success. With Hamilton gone now, I think we're pretty much forced to sign Dunn to a contract...I'm just not sure we need a long term one. This year (and next) will give us a good insight into what our minor league OF's are made of. And I'd much rather have more payroll flexibility to use for signing FA pitchers in these next 2 years than clogging it up in players who may not be in our plans 2 years from now.

[*BaseClogger*]

I'll give you that in regards to learning patience. But still, the threat of that bunted single forces the defense to do so many different things its ALWAYS a good thing to have that threat. If they charge, the odds to slap a single past them is much higher, if they hesitate to charge...he's quick enough to still beat it out. There are "some" good fielding pitchers out there, but they're far from common. I don't see his average dropping much due to pitchers changing their tactics against him.

As for Phillips....I certainly don't consider him overrated at all. He has improved in nearly every season he's been in the bigs. Offensively and defensively. Right now I'd say he's the most complete secondbaseman in the NL.

As for the Dunner....I've always liked him, more than most people. Yes he K's a lot, but his plate discipline is better than most people realize. A LOT of those walks are NOT intentional. His avg made some solid strides last year too. But defensively...*sigh*...that's just the killer. I thought for a long time that we should try him at first but I've since learned that we actually did that several years ago without success. With Hamilton gone now, I think we're pretty much forced to sign Dunn to a contract...I'm just not sure we need a long term one. This year (and next) will give us a good insight into what our minor league OF's are made of. And I'd much rather have more payroll flexibility to use for signing FA pitchers in these next 2 years than clogging it up in players who may not be in our plans 2 years from now.

I'll give you that Phillips is a good defender, but most of his value at the plate last year was due to his high amount of PA's... He's just not a great hitter...

[_Sir_Charles_]

I can't disagree enough on that assesment. Yes he got a lot of AB's. There's no discounting that. But he still hits for an above average BA (.280+), with some pop (30 dingers), and an excellent baserunner (30+ sb's with few cs's). Add that to the excellent defense and you've got the best 2b in the NL. He needs to work on the K's though, I'll definitely give you that one. I think one of the biggest reasons his K's were up this year was the fact that he was put into a position of a power hitter too much in the lineup. I'd much rather see him in the middle of the back end of the lineup (around 6th or 7th). Spreading the pop around the lineup a bit more would benefit us more I think.

[*BaseClogger*]

I can't disagree enough on that assesment. Yes he got a lot of AB's. There's no discounting that. But he still hits for an above average BA (.280+), with some pop (30 dingers), and an excellent baserunner (30+ sb's with few cs's). Add that to the excellent defense and you've got the best 2b in the NL. He needs to work on the K's though, I'll definitely give you that one. I think one of the biggest reasons his K's were up this year was the fact that he was put into a position of a power hitter too much in the lineup. I'd much rather see him in the middle of the back end of the lineup (around 6th or 7th). Spreading the pop around the lineup a bit more would benefit us more I think.

Yeah, Chase Utley and I can't disagree more. I really don't want to go into that arguement again... However, using BA to tell me how good of a hitter he is isn't a way to convince me lol

[Krawhitham]

40HR/100RBI/100RUNS/100BB will get him at least a 25 million/per offer from the Yankees

[redsfanmia]

40HR/100RBI/100RUNS/100BB will get him at least a 25 million/per offer from the Yankees

Let them overpay him then.

[AmarilloRed]

Why is Hopper definitely a reserve OF'er? The guy hit over .300! and is the closest thing the Reds have to a traditional leadoff-type hitter. This line up has plenty of HR power already and not enough set the table kind of guys.

Norris Hopper relied on a lot of bunt hits last year to get his BA to around .320, and did not take many walks. I believe that teams will be ready for that next year, and we could see his OBP drop to around .320 if he continues to get the AB. That combined with his lack of power will keep him a fourth outfielder.

[Ahhhorsepoo]

KraWhitham..

I have been saying for years that it will take at least 18 mil to sing Dunn to a LTC and in a small market.. we dont need that player.. now that Hami is in Texas.. I expect a good chance that after this season if we dont unload him for a pitcher.. he will end up playing with Hami in Texas..


For whoever said Dunn is more valuable to this team than phillips.. sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.. it's that kind of mindset that makes baseball fans look dumb.. you dont hear soccer fans saying that peter crouch is more important to a team than messi.. because they know youth plus more talent equals better..

[Triples]

I believe that Hopper relied too much on luck last year to consistently hit in the .330 range. His BABIP last year was .369, an unsustainable number next year. With average luck, his BABIP should have been around .320, which is 0.197 (his Line Drive %) plus 0.120.

In addition, a large contingent of his hits were of the drag bunt variety. Eventually teams will start to specifically defend against this, and the bunt will become less successful in the process. When you add in his lack of power, you have a player with a very low margin of error needed to be an effective hitter. His speed and defense make him a good backup, but I would not counton him to be anything more than that.

Actually, a good number of Hopper's bunts are placed in the no-man's-land between the pitcher, 2b and 1b. Unless the 2b plays up a couple steps on the grass its nearly indefensable even if the opposing team knows it's comming. He obviously practices that technique in order to replicate it the way he does.

I think he had 17 bunt base hits in 2007 which helps both his BA and his BAIP numbers. I don't know if that mitigates the unluckiness of his numbers or not.

[BucksandReds]

I am hoping that we can get Dunn to sign a 4-5 year deal at 15 million per. That is worth it. If the yanks offer 20 then we need to go out and get a LF, Bruce in CF and I have a feeling that Griffey will stay for cheaper now that we look to contend (he has given many signs that he is glad to be here now.) No way can we afford 20 million for Dunn. With the expected raise in production from Votto and Bruce we should be able to offset Dunn's numbers.

[Ahhhorsepoo]

I am hoping that we can get Dunn to sign a 4-5 year deal at 15 million per. That is worth it. If the yanks offer 20 then we need to go out and get a LF, Bruce in CF and I have a feeling that Griffey will stay for cheaper now that we look to contend (he has given many signs that he is glad to be here now.) No way can we afford 20 million for Dunn. With the expected raise in production from Votto and Bruce we should be able to offset Dunn's numbers.

You also have to remember that we will have better production out of the catcher.. cant get much worse than last year.. and better production out of the SS.. Votto and Bruce added too.. shouldnt have a problem if you were to bring in a better fielding LF'r that hits between 15 and 20 homers.. you can easily contend with htat lineup.. and yes i think griff will stay here fro much cheaper.. he isnt out for the money.. he is out to contend and if we can prove this year we can contend with this roster.. he will retire a red.. if not.. he will go elsewhere to get a ring..

[BLEEDS]

I am hoping that we can get Dunn to sign a 4-5 year deal at 15 million per. That is worth it. If the yanks offer 20 then we need to go out and get a LF, Bruce in CF and I have a feeling that Griffey will stay for cheaper now that we look to contend (he has given many signs that he is glad to be here now.) No way can we afford 20 million for Dunn. With the expected raise in production from Votto and Bruce we should be able to offset Dunn's numbers.

We aren't paying him $16.5M in 2009, period. He's gone.
We don't need him at $10M either. His skills are diminishing. He "watched" too many pop-ups he thought were Homers in 2007.

He needs to play DH for his "final years", after he breaks the 600 HR mark in Cincy.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Ahhhorsepoo]

but you are willing to pay dunn more than that? now that is funny as crap..

[Carolina Red]

Let's look at the pro's and cons of Adam Dunn as a Red.

In his favor, he hits a lot of long homeruns which fans enjoy and he gets many RBI's. He gets a lot of walks because he often has a keen eye for the strike zone. That about sums up the pros.

The cons include the fact that he strikes out a lot, he doesn't hit lefties very well, he is slow in the outfield and has a below average arm, he doesn't run very well, he can't hit a sac fly to save his life, he is almost 30, and he already has had one knee surgery. His knees must take quite a pounding carrying around that big frame and I anticipate more knee problems in the future.

I would love to see Adam Dunn flourish as a Red and help lead us to the playoffs. I just don't think it will happen. I think the Reds and Dunn will be better off if we trade him at the deadline for more pitching prospects while his value is high. Maybe he can go to the AL and DH. As someone said in another thread about the Hamilton trade, a good outfielder is much easier to go out and get than a good quality pitcher. I would have much rather kept Hamilton and traded Dunn. I know people on this board love Dunn but we don't need to tie up 15 or 20 million a year of the payroll on him.

[Ahhhorsepoo]

carolina if we were a big market AL team he would be perfect.. but not a small market NL team..

[757690]

We aren't paying him $16.5M in 2009, period. He's gone.
We don't need him at $10M either. His skills are diminishing. He "watched" too many pop-ups he thought were Homers in 2007.

He needs to play DH for his "final years", after he breaks the 600 HR mark in Cincy.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

I think it's $13M in 09 with a $4.5M buy out, which means it's a $8.5M decision. We'll have a better idea after 08 if JR. is worth $8.5M for 09.

[Jay Bruce]

I think it's $13M in 09 with a $4.5M buy out, which means it's a $8.5M decision. We'll have a better idea after 08 if JR. is worth $8.5M for 09.

It's actually 16.5 million for 2009, with a 4 million buyout. But your point still remains, it's not truly a 16.5 million dollar decision, but a 12.5 million dollar one with Griffey. I'm not saying we should pick it up, but let's see how he does in 2008, and what we do about Dunn's contract, before making a decision. It's not a guarantee that the Reds will decline the option.

[757690]

It's actually 16.5 million for 2009, with a 4 million buyout. But your point still remains, it's not truly a 16.5 million dollar decision, but a 12.5 million dollar one with Griffey. I'm not saying we should pick it up, but let's see how he does in 2008, and what we do about Dunn's contract, before making a decision. It's not a guarantee that the Reds will decline the option.

Thanks for the correction. :thumbup:

[Hondo]

This team Needs Adam Dunn. The organization Drafted and Developed him... He along with Jay Bruce will be the Offensive Force for this Team well into the Next Decade...

I would like the team to give him Carlos Lee Money if that is what it takes, maybe a lil' Less...

Thanks

[BucksandReds]

Adam Dunn is not worth 20 million per year to us. I would bet anything that he takes less than that if this team sniffs the playoffs this year and he feels that he can be a part of something special. Travis Hafner did it last year. A player gets a slightly lower fortune from the team that brought them up, they get to be on a very competitive team and don't have to play under the microscope that is NY or Boston. Not as much pressure on an Adam Dunn that gives us a slight discount in Cincy as there is in the pinstripes.

[AmarilloRed]

Krivsky tried to trade Dunn last year, but was unable to get an equitable trade offer from other teams . Castellini has publicly said he is interested in giving Dunn an extension. Adam Dunn has mentioned he is open to an extension with the Reds. The simple fact is with the impending retirement of Griffey and the trade of Hamilton, it will be pretty important that the Reds give Dunn an extension.

[indyred]

Any idea what next years free agent class looks like? If Dunn has another 40 home run 100 rbi season he will get big $ in FA. He will no doubt have a few teams offering in the 5-6 years for 100-120 million range.

[AmarilloRed]

Any idea what next years free agent class looks like? If Dunn has another 40 home run 100 rbi season he will get big $ in FA. He will no doubt have a few teams offering in the 5-6 years for 100-120 million range.

Catchers
Michael Barrett (32)
Johnny Estrada (33)
Kenji Johjima (33)
Jason Kendall (35) - club option for '09; vests with 110 games played in '08
Paul Lo Duca (37)
Ivan Rodriguez (37)
David Ross (32)
Jason Varitek (37)
Gregg Zaun (38) - $3.75MM vesting option for '09; vests with 160 games played in '08

First basemen
Ben Broussard (32)
Carlos Delgado (37) - $16MM mutual option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with a $5MM buyout
Scott Hatteberg (39)
Kevin Millar (37)
Richie Sexson (34)
Mark Teixeira (29)

Second basemen
Mark Ellis (32)
Mark Grudzielanek (39)
Orlando Hudson (31)
Tadahito Iguchi (34)
Jeff Kent (41)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Mark Loretta (37)

Shortstops
Orlando Cabrera (34)
David Eckstein (34)
Adam Everett (32)
Rafael Furcal (31)
Cristian Guzman (31)
Cesar Izturis (29)
Felipe Lopez (29)
Edgar Renteria (33) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Juan Uribe (30)
Omar Vizquel (42) - $5.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout

Third basemen
Casey Blake (35)
Hank Blalock (28) - $6.2MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Joe Crede (31)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Troy Glaus (32) - $11.25MM player option for '09
Wes Helms (33) - $3.75MM club option for '09
Chipper Jones (37) - $8-11MM vesting option for '09

Left fielders
Moises Alou (42)
Garret Anderson (37) - $14MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Milton Bradley (31)
Pat Burrell (32)
Carl Crawford (27) - $8.25MM club option for '09 with $2.5MM buyout
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $3MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Raul Ibanez (37)
Jacque Jones (34)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Craig Monroe (32)
Jay Payton (36)
Wily Mo Pena (27) - $5MM club option or $2MM player option for '09
Manny Ramirez (37) - $20MM club option for '09
Juan Rivera (30)

Center fielders
Rocco Baldelli (27) - $6MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Jim Edmonds (39)
Jacque Jones (34)
Mark Kotsay (33)

Right fielders
Bobby Abreu (35)
Casey Blake (35)
Milton Bradley (31)
Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Jacque Jones (34)

DHs
Milton Bradley (31)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Jason Giambi (38) - $22MM club option for '09 with $5MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Raul Ibanez (37)
Manny Ramirez (37) - $20MM club option for '09
Juan Rivera (30)
Frank Thomas (41) - $10MM option for '09; vests with 376 PAs in '08
Jim Thome (38) - $13MM club option for '09 with $3MM buyout
Jose Vidro (34) - vesting option for '09

Starting pitchers
A.J. Burnett (32) - can opt out after '08 season
Paul Byrd (38)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Jon Garland (29)
Tom Glavine (43)
Orlando Hernandez (43)
Randy Johnson (45)
John Lackey (30) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Esteban Loaiza (37) - $7.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.375MM buyout
Braden Looper (34)
Derek Lowe (36)
Greg Maddux (43)
Pedro Martinez (37)
Matt Morris (34) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $1MM buyout
Jamie Moyer (46)
Mark Mulder (31) - $11MM club option for '09 with a $1.5MM buyout
Mike Mussina (40)
Brad Penny (31) - $8.75MM club option for '09 with a $2MM buyout
Oliver Perez (27)
Andy Pettitte (37)
Kenny Rogers (44)
C.C. Sabathia (28)
Johan Santana (30)
Curt Schilling (42)
Ben Sheets (30)
John Smoltz (42) - $12MM club option for '09
Tim Wakefield (42) - perpetual $4MM club option
Woody Williams (42) - $6.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Randy Wolf (32)

Closers
Joe Borowski (38)
Ryan Dempster (32)
Brian Fuentes (33)
Eric Gagne (33)
Trevor Hoffman (41)
Jason Isringhausen (36)
Todd Jones (41)
Brad Lidge (32)
Joe Nathan (34)
Al Reyes (38)
Francisco Rodriguez (27)
Rafael Soriano (29)

Middle relievers
Doug Brocail (42) - club option for '09
Juan Cruz (28)
Alan Embree (39) - $3MM club option for '09
Scott Eyre (37)
Kyle Farnsworth (33)
Aaron Fultz (35)
Tom Gordon (41) - $4.5MM club option for '09 with a $1MM buyout
LaTroy Hawkins (36)
Matt Herges (39) - club option for '09
Bob Howry (35)
Steve Kline (36)
Brandon Lyon (29)
Damaso Marte (34) - $6MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Guillermo Mota (35)
Will Ohman (31)
Darren Oliver (38)
Juan Rincon (30)
Russ Springer (40)
Mike Stanton (42) - $2.5MM club option for '09 with a $0.5MM buyout
Mike Timlin (43)
Salomon Torres (37) - $3.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.3MM buyout
Oscar Villarreal (27)
David Weathers (39)
Dan Wheeler (31)
Kerry Wood (32)

There is your 2009 free agent class.

[BLEEDS]

...
There is your 2009 free agent class.

Nice Work!

Where did you get that from? A site, or did you compile that yourself?

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[AmarilloRed]

mlbtraderumors.com had it listed. I did a search for 2009 MLB free agents, and backtracked to mlb traderumors.com

[indyred]

Nice info. Piching class could be strong if some of those big namestest the FA waters. It looks good for Dunn on the position player's list. Other than Teixeira, Dunn is one of the bigger names that may be out there next off season, driving up his value. I'm sure Vlad will have his option picked up. Manny at 20 million will be intersting to see what Sox do with him.