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View Full Version : 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing



reds44
03-08-2008, 10:49 AM
Norris Hopper CF
Jeff Keppinger SS
Ken Griffey Jr. RF
Brandon Phillips 2B
Adam Dunn LF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Scott Hatteberg 1B
Javier Valentin C
Jay Bruce DH

P Jeremy Affeldt vs. Buddy Carlisle. Also pitching: Mike Lincoln, Justin Lehr, Tom Shearn, Gary Majewski and Jon Coutlangus. Also available: Tyler Pelland, Marcus McBeth, Ramon Ramirez. Josh Roenicke and Daryl Thompson.

cumberlandreds
03-08-2008, 11:22 AM
Is it a rule this spring that the DH has to hit 9th? I've noticed that in most games so far this spring.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 11:28 AM
Buddy Carlisle.

Sounds like a Nascar driver :)

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 11:54 AM
A little baseball may make us all forget that the weather sucks, the roads suck, and winter sucks...even if just for a few hours.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:07 PM
Is it a rule this spring that the DH has to hit 9th? I've noticed that in most games so far this spring.


I prefer to think of him as our second leadoff hitter. ;)



Buddy Carlisle.

Sounds like a Nascar driver :)


Used to be one of ours.

marcshoe
03-08-2008, 01:07 PM
Buddy Carlisle.

Sounds like a Nascar driver :)

Is Marc Kroon, or whatever his name was, still around?

I watched Carlyle pitch several times when he was a Reds' farmhand in Charleston. Back then he worked very quickly, I seem to remember.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:07 PM
Cueto raving continues...

11larkin11
03-08-2008, 01:08 PM
When is Patterson gonna show up?

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:09 PM
When is Patterson gonna show up?

The question that ponders us all.... ;)

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:11 PM
Cueto raving continues...


Why do they hate Homer so much?

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:18 PM
Marty suspects Phillips will be the cleanup hitter...with Dunner batting 5

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:19 PM
Two run double by Brandon.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:21 PM
EE batting .222 this spring...

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 01:23 PM
EE batting .222 this spring...

It's only 18 atbats. Two hits in his next two atbats and he'll be hitting .300.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:23 PM
EE drives in Brandon with a base hit after he advanced to 3rd on a fly ball.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:23 PM
That will help :)

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:24 PM
Odd that Votto is on the bench....again

Big Klu
03-08-2008, 01:27 PM
I prefer to think of him as our second leadoff hitter. ;)

He will be leading off the second inning. :cool:

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:28 PM
He will be leading off the second inning. :cool:


There you go.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:35 PM
Bruce, the .500 hitting starting centerfielder for the Lousiville Bats, now hitting...

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:44 PM
Affeldt being Affeldt.

11larkin11
03-08-2008, 01:46 PM
How did Bruce do? this is my source for whats happening

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:49 PM
Lillibridge knocks in a run with a double. One out. Reds 3 Braves 1.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Sac fly scores another run.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:54 PM
Affeldt strikes Francouer out to end the inning. Reds 3 Braves 2.

dougdirt
03-08-2008, 01:54 PM
How did Bruce do? this is my source for whats happening

Ground out to first base. Apparently a nice play by Thorman on it.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 01:56 PM
Brandon goes deep. 4-2 Reds.

dougdirt
03-08-2008, 01:56 PM
HR by Brandon Phillips. Sounds like he is getting into the swing of things now.

VR
03-08-2008, 01:56 PM
I prefer to think of him as our second leadoff hitter. ;)







funny

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 01:56 PM
:phillips:

:jump:

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:07 PM
Braves tie it up on a 2 run single.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:07 PM
Affeldt doing his best to not make the team....

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:09 PM
Hernandez goes deep. Braves lead 6-4.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:10 PM
Affeldt's day is done.

membengal
03-08-2008, 02:10 PM
Affeldt has a spot on this the team regardless, I would think. Long relief in the pen at worst. A spot, by the way, that would be where he would optimally be ticketed. So, yeah, glad he got lit up today.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Affeldt is pulled in favor of Hot Rod Lincoln.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:13 PM
Affeldt has a spot on this the team regardless, I would think. Long relief in the pen at worst. A spot, by the way, that would be where he would optimally be ticketed. So, yeah, glad he got lit up today.

I'm fine with that....he hasn't proved he's a major league calibre starting pitcher...and he's had plenty of chances.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:18 PM
Mr. Hat with a ground rule double.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:23 PM
Bruce walks!

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:23 PM
Bases are juiced for the Hop.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:23 PM
Bruce walks!


No wonder he's going to LOU. ;)

Hop hits a tapper back to the box and he throws it over the catcher's head. 1 run scores. Bases still loaded 0 outs.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:25 PM
Sac fly scores Javy, The Bruce advances to 3rd. Tied at 6.

Buckeye33
03-08-2008, 02:25 PM
Bruce walks!

A little Major League type quote that I'm sure Dusty will tell Bruce when he gets back to the dug out:

"Nice walk kid, don't ever let it happen again"

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:27 PM
Jr grounds to 2nd and scores Bruce. Hop goes to 3rd after advancing to 2nd on a WP. 2 outs. Reds up 7-6.

mbgrayson
03-08-2008, 02:27 PM
Bruce walks!

Clogging up those bases.....Dusty will have to have a word with him....

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:28 PM
Small ball....will Dusty approve? ;)

BCubb2003
03-08-2008, 02:29 PM
If Norris Hopper is hitting behind you, then yes, your walk might not be the best run-creating strategy.

pedro
03-08-2008, 02:30 PM
Dusty walked an average of 61 times a season when he played.

It's not Joe Morgan territory but it's not like he expects everyone to hack like Jeff Franceur either.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:38 PM
Dunner HBP.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:39 PM
EE pops to 2nd. 1 out.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Plumbing is out at Ed Smith Stadium...

hopefully nobody has to do a stinky.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:40 PM
WP sends Dunn to 2nd.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:41 PM
Plumbing is out at Ed Smith Stadium...


And the Reds are thinking of moving to AZ, why?

Mr. Hat sends Dunn to 3rd with a base hit to left.

BCubb2003
03-08-2008, 02:42 PM
Plumbing is out at Ed Smith Stadium...

hopefully nobody has to do a stinky.

Arizonans seen leaving the scene.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:42 PM
Javy doubles Dunn in sends Hatte to 3rd. Reds 8 Braves 6.

membengal
03-08-2008, 02:43 PM
Marty busy trying to hand Mr. Hatte the job because he's hitting so far this spring and Votto isn't. Lovely.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:44 PM
The Bruce grounds to 2nd but Hatteberg scores. 9-6 Reds end of 5.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:44 PM
I'll admit, at the moment, during the week I don't follow the Reds as closely due to other things going on, has Votto been given a fair shot this spring to prove himself?

pedro
03-08-2008, 02:46 PM
I'll admit, at the moment, during the week I don't follow the Reds as closely due to other things going on, has Votto been given a fair shot this spring to prove himself?

He has the same number of AB's a Hatteberg. (16)

It's early though.

To be fair to Marty and Thom, which everybody knows isn't my strong suit, they just said that it was assumed that Votto would be the 1st baseman but that he had to hit this spring to secure the position and so far he hadn't.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:47 PM
Votto now playing...Bako now playing...Drew Anderson (one of them anyway ;)) playing, some guy I've never heard of in center, Phillips in right (andy that is) and somebody else is out there, too...Cabrera maybe? Some dude named Lehr is pitching

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 02:47 PM
He has the same number of AB's a Hatteberg. (16)

It's early though.

To be fair to Marty and Thom, which everybody knows isn't my strong suit, they just said that it was assumed that Votto would be the 1st baseman but that he had to hit this spring to secure the position and so far he hadn't.


Thanks...that's all I wondered.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:47 PM
Lehr pitching for the Reds now. Gives up a base hit to the 1st batter.

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 02:48 PM
Joey Votto should be a lock for the first base job, even if he hits .100 this spring.

Kc61
03-08-2008, 02:52 PM
Marty busy trying to hand Mr. Hatte the job because he's hitting so far this spring and Votto isn't. Lovely.


And Votto was inducted in the Hall of Fame when, exactly? Votto is a good prospect but it is quite possible he will never approach Hatteberg's achievement in the major leagues.

If Hatteberg was lousy, I would agree, let's get the young guy in there. But Hatt had an .868 OPS last season in 362 at bats. So maybe this year Votto and Hatt split time at first. Or maybe Hatt starts out with the job and Votto takes over gradually.

There's no urgent rush to replace Hatteberg. He is good.

Of course, maybe playing Hatt and talking him up helps trade him for good value. That's a good alternative as well.

pedro
03-08-2008, 02:54 PM
Joey Votto should be a lock for the first base job, even if he hits .100 this spring.

I'm not a fan of handing jobs to rookies if they struggle in spring training.

No reason he can't spend April in AAA and then come up after he gets hot.

TMBS, I'm confident Votto will come around before spring training is over. 16 ab's just isn't a lot.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:57 PM
Nothing doing, besides that base hit, for the Braves in their half of the 6th.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 02:59 PM
Reds have runners on the corners no outs.

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 03:01 PM
I'm not a fan of handing jobs to rookies if they struggle in spring training.

No reason he can't spend April in AAA and then come up after he gets hot.

TMBS, I'm confident Votto will come around before spring training is over. 16 ab's just isn't a lot.

He tore it up in September, which IMO is a better indicator than spring training.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:03 PM
BP with a SF to score Janish. 10-6 Reds.

pedro
03-08-2008, 03:03 PM
He tore it up in September, which IMO is a better indicator than spring training.

Then he should be able to do it this spring against weaker competition eh?

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 03:03 PM
Good day for Phillips

pedro
03-08-2008, 03:04 PM
Hatteberg went 3 for 3 too.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 03:05 PM
Good day for Hatte, too...

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:11 PM
Votto with a smash of the glove of the 1B to drive in 2. 12-6 Reds. Scored an error.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 03:11 PM
You know it's spring training when Paul Bako gets a triple :lol:

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:11 PM
Bako with a triple to score Votto. 13-6 Reds.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:12 PM
Jay grounds out to 1st to end the inning.

MikeS21
03-08-2008, 03:13 PM
Isn't Votto notorious for slow April starts?

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:15 PM
Coutlangus in for the Reds.

cincyinco
03-08-2008, 03:16 PM
Isn't Votto notorious for slow April starts?


Yes, but last time I checked the calendar.. and admittedly, I might have lost all track of time.. it's March.

KronoRed
03-08-2008, 03:17 PM
Yes, but last time I checked the calendar.. and admittedly, I might have lost all track of time.. it's March.

We should start the season in March, take April off and then back at it in May

cincrazy
03-08-2008, 03:18 PM
Isn't Votto notorious for slow April starts?

Definitely. Votto always gets off to awful starts as far as I understand.

Hopefully we can be as patient with him as the Red Sox were with Dustin Pedroia. Pedroia is a notorious slow starter as well, and got off to a horrible start last year, but by June he'd really turned it on.

cincrazy
03-08-2008, 03:18 PM
Cout is pitching terribly. I don't think there's any way Affeldt can make the rotation unless he is LIGHTS OUT, because that's how bad this bullpen is from the left side.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:19 PM
Lillibridge with an RBI double cuts the lead to 6.

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 03:20 PM
Coutlanges has had a horrific spring.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:20 PM
Another double cuts the lead to 5.

MikeS21
03-08-2008, 03:21 PM
Yes, but last time I checked the calendar.. and admittedly, I might have lost all track of time.. it's March.
:D


Definitely. Votto always gets off to awful starts as far as I understand.

Hopefully we can be as patient with him as the Red Sox were with Dustin Pedroia. Pedroia is a notorious slow starter as well, and got off to a horrible start last year, but by June he'd really turned it on.
That's my point. By June 1st, Votto is usually locked and loaded.

VR
03-08-2008, 03:23 PM
You know it's spring training when Paul Bako gets a triple :lol:

Random trivia...but was Bako the guy that hit the gapper that Griffey dove at and tore his shoulder up 3 years ago?

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:25 PM
No further damage in the inning.

VR
03-08-2008, 03:28 PM
Random trivia...but was Bako the guy that hit the gapper that Griffey dove at and tore his shoulder up 3 years ago?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F07E3DB1338F935A35757C0A9659C8B 63

ahh, so it was....5 years ago. Perhaps Bako's last triple? :)

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:29 PM
Rios with a leadoff double for the Reds.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:30 PM
Janish lines into a double play.

Big Klu
03-08-2008, 03:34 PM
When did the Reds pick up Armando Rios? (I assume he is ticketed for Louisville.)

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:34 PM
Majewski in. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Big Klu
03-08-2008, 03:35 PM
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F07E3DB1338F935A35757C0A9659C8B 63

ahh, so it was....5 years ago. Perhaps Bako's last triple? :)

Marty just said that Bako tripled last year at RFK.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:37 PM
Majewski gets the side out in order.

membengal
03-08-2008, 03:39 PM
Then he should be able to do it this spring against weaker competition eh?

Or, Marty needs to chill on the sample size of 16 scattered at-bats across 10 days of games versus what we all saw last year in September. I am with OBM, his time to "prove himself" was in his call-up. I don't see why he needs to continually do so over the spring. On top of that, he is a notoriously slow starter. So I guess he's fated to be sent to AAA every year until he is 40 as punishment for that?

Matt700wlw
03-08-2008, 03:41 PM
Majewski gets the side out in order.

We may never see that again ;)

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:42 PM
We may never see that again ;)


Archive the broadcast. ;)

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:47 PM
Shearn in for the Reds now to close it out.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:51 PM
First two batters reach for ATL.

Chip R
03-08-2008, 03:55 PM
Game over. Final score, Reds 13 Braves 8.

penantboundreds
03-08-2008, 03:55 PM
This one belongs to the Reds!

<-----------

Check out my name, it's coming true this year if Dusty can get the right people in the rotation and line-up!

Hoosier Red
03-08-2008, 04:05 PM
Or, Marty needs to chill on the sample size of 16 scattered at-bats across 10 days of games versus what we all saw last year in September. I am with OBM, his time to "prove himself" was in his call-up. I don't see why he needs to continually do so over the spring. On top of that, he is a notoriously slow starter. So I guess he's fated to be sent to AAA every year until he is 40 as punishment for that?

If he's a slow starter,why do we want him sucking it up in Cincinnati in April?
When is it officially okay to start worrying about whether he'll hit. I admit 16 AB's isn't exactly a true indicator, but Hatteberg has seemed to come into March knowing he has to win a job. If Votto hits .100 for the spring and still wins the job, what does that say to the team?
Specifically the members of the team older than say 25?

pahster
03-08-2008, 04:08 PM
If he's a slow starter,why do we want him sucking it up in Cincinnati in April?
When is it officially okay to start worrying about whether he'll hit. I admit 16 AB's isn't exactly a true indicator, but Hatteberg has seemed to come into March knowing he has to win a job. If Votto hits .100 for the spring and still wins the job, what does that say to the team?
Specifically the members of the team older than say 25?

It says to them that the front office understand small sample sizes.

Hoosier Red
03-08-2008, 04:17 PM
Right, so why bother even putting any work in.
That's garbage.

I'm going to sound like one of those "veteran loving, rookie hating, get off my lawn types" but a rookie doesn't get the same benefit of the doubt on the whole "starts slow" scale.

If he starts slow, he can start slow on the bench or in Louisville.

Once he plays a full season or two, perhaps I'll be a little more accomodating.

membengal
03-08-2008, 04:22 PM
It says to them that the front office understand small sample sizes.

Word.

reds44
03-08-2008, 04:50 PM
Hatteberg is hitting .421 and Votto is hitting .176

I'm not sure why everone think the job should have just been handed to Votto. It's not like Hatteberg had a bad year or anything last year.

edabbs44
03-08-2008, 05:01 PM
Hatteberg is hitting .421 and Votto is hitting .176

I'm not sure why everone think the job should have just been handed to Votto. It's not like Hatteberg had a bad year or anything last year.

Because Votto has a future in this franchise.

If you want to nit pick on ST stats, then we should say that Hatteberg should only play at GABP vs LHPs this year if Votto isn't the starter. Since Hatteberg is useless on the road and against LHPs.

KronoRed
03-08-2008, 05:21 PM
Hatteberg is hitting .421 and Votto is hitting .176

I'm not sure why everone think the job should have just been handed to Votto. It's not like Hatteberg had a bad year or anything last year.

ST stats are best taken with a gigantic load of salt, Tony Womack tore it up every year in ST.

Votto has a good chance to be a member of the next Reds team to win something important, Hatteberg not so much

membengal
03-08-2008, 05:23 PM
Not to mention Manzanillo. Blistering spring. Won a spot on the team. Well done young man! You sure showed them in Florida!

Oh, wait. Our bad.

edabbs44
03-08-2008, 05:32 PM
Not to mention Manzanillo. Blistering spring. Won a spot on the team. Well done young man! You sure showed them in Florida!

Oh, wait. Our bad.

Victor Santos. He of the 0.00 spring training ERA in 2007.

Give the job to Votto and be done with it.

reds44
03-08-2008, 05:44 PM
Yes, but unlike Manzanillo, Santos, and Womack Hatteberg has a track record of recent success.

I want Votto to be the starting 1st baseman just like everyone else does, but it seems like a redszone rule if you are above the age of 33 you automatically are trash.

edabbs44
03-08-2008, 05:48 PM
Yes, but unlike Manzanillo, Santos, and Womack Hatteberg has a track record of recent success.

I want Votto to be the starting 1st baseman just like everyone else does, but it seems like a redszone rule if you are above the age of 33 you automatically are trash.

Hatteberg's "success" appears to be very GABP influenced.

princeton
03-08-2008, 06:10 PM
Hatteberg's "success" appears to be very GABP influenced.

you say that like it's a bad thing.

edabbs44
03-08-2008, 06:23 PM
you say that like it's a bad thing.

It kind of is in this discussion.

membengal
03-08-2008, 06:29 PM
Yes, but unlike Manzanillo, Santos, and Womack Hatteberg has a track record of recent success.

I want Votto to be the starting 1st baseman just like everyone else does, but it seems like a redszone rule if you are above the age of 33 you automatically are trash.

Nope. But I don't like the automatic start and deference to vets either. Fast start, slow start, medium start, Votto is far likelier to be more productive than Hatteberg this season. At some point, an organization has to simply make a choice and hand the position to the next generation.

And, it's not like Votto is a child. He's, what, 25 this year? With a now lengthy minors history. And a good September. The job should be his.

PuffyPig
03-08-2008, 06:54 PM
Hatteberg's "success" appears to be very GABP influenced.

I guess it's lucky he plays half his games there then.

pedro
03-08-2008, 08:06 PM
It kind of is in this discussion.

Small sample size aside, Joey Votto didn't exactly tear it up outside of the GABP either (.605 OPS)

If we're going to give so much weight to his September stats we ought to at least examine them in the same manner that we do Hatteberg's.

I'd also like to point out that Votto didn't exactly tear up Louisville either. (.859 OPS overall, .669 against LHP).

He's a nice player but that doesn't exactly scream "future star" to me.

reds44
03-08-2008, 09:58 PM
Small sample size aside, Joey Votto didn't exactly tear it up outside of the GABP either (.605 OPS)

If we're going to give so much weight to his September stats we ought to at least examine them in the same manner that we do Hatteberg's.

I'd also like to point out that Votto didn't exactly tear up Louisville either. (.859 OPS overall, .669 against LHP).

He's a nice player but that doesn't exactly scream "future star" to me.
And Hatteberg has posted .826 and .868 OPS' respectively in his two years in Cincinnati.

So what does Votto have on Hatteberg that he should just be handed the job? Age?

edabbs44
03-08-2008, 10:12 PM
I guess it's lucky he plays half his games there then.

Lucky in that if he didn't, he'd probably be out of baseball.

edabbs44
03-08-2008, 10:14 PM
Small sample size aside, Joey Votto didn't exactly tear it up outside of the GABP either (.605 OPS)

If we're going to give so much weight to his September stats we ought to at least examine them in the same manner that we do Hatteberg's.

I'd also like to point out that Votto didn't exactly tear up Louisville either. (.859 OPS overall, .669 against LHP).

He's a nice player but that doesn't exactly scream "future star" to me.

My view of the situation is this: either give him the job or, if you don't think he is going to be a productive major leaguer, trade him. The guy has proven enough in the minors to suggest that he should not be there anymore. If you are going to screw around and not give him time, then deal him and get some more pitching while he still has value.

edabbs44
03-08-2008, 10:16 PM
And Hatteberg has posted .826 and .868 OPS' respectively in his two years in Cincinnati.

So what does Votto have on Hatteberg that he should just be handed the job? Age?

Votto may be able to be productive outside of GABP. We know Hatteberg has not been productive on the road and most likely will not be productive this year either.

mth123
03-08-2008, 10:27 PM
My view of the situation is this: either give him the job or, if you don't think he is going to be a productive major leaguer, trade him. The guy has proven enough in the minors to suggest that he should not be there anymore. If you are going to screw around and not give him time, then deal him and get some more pitching while he still has value.

:thumbup:

reds44
03-08-2008, 10:33 PM
My view of the situation is this: either give him the job or, if you don't think he is going to be a productive major leaguer, trade him. The guy has proven enough in the minors to suggest that he should not be there anymore. If you are going to screw around and not give him time, then deal him and get some more pitching while he still has value.
Why? Hatteberg is going to be gone after this year anyway, so don't create an opening you don't have to.

It's not going to kill Votto to spend a few months in AAA.

edabbs44
03-08-2008, 10:46 PM
Why? Hatteberg is going to be gone after this year anyway, so don't create an opening you don't have to.

It's not going to kill Votto to spend a few months in AAA.

Scott Hatteberg isn't the missing link between the Cincinnati Reds and the playoffs. The only thing accomplished by playing him in the majors over Votto this year will be the stunting of Votto's development.

This is the exact reason why I hated it when they picked up his option.

OnBaseMachine
03-08-2008, 10:48 PM
My view of the situation is this: either give him the job or, if you don't think he is going to be a productive major leaguer, trade him. The guy has proven enough in the minors to suggest that he should not be there anymore. If you are going to screw around and not give him time, then deal him and get some more pitching while he still has value.

I also agree with this. The future is now for Joey Votto IMO. The Reds held him back last year, he should have been up in July when the Reds were clearly going no where. That would have given him an additional 150-200 major league atbats and better prepared him for a full major league season. I want this guy to be the Opening Day 1B. I think if given the opportunity, Votto will hit 20-25 homeruns and 35 doubles with an OBP in the .375 area.

pedro
03-09-2008, 12:47 AM
Whether Votto is the future or not, the Reds should never say so when the guy you want to flip (hatteberg) is hitting +.400. And if that is the way it is in April I think the reds should ride it out because maybe they can flip Hatteberg for something and then slide Votto in. The Reds aren't in such good shape that they should just dump guys with value. That's what I think anyway.

mth123
03-09-2008, 05:40 AM
Whether Votto is the future or not, the Reds should never say so when the guy you want to flip (hatteberg) is hitting +.400. And if that is the way it is in April I think the reds should ride it out because maybe they can flip Hatteberg for something and then slide Votto in. The Reds aren't in such good shape that they should just dump guys with value. That's what I think anyway.

Valid point.

I would not expect them to declare Votto a starter and to degrade Hatte, but Marty insinuated that Hatte should clearly be the starter and that is what started all of this.

princeton
03-09-2008, 06:45 AM
Lucky in that if he didn't, he'd probably be out of baseball.

PuffyPig's got it right.

You're thinking too much. Baseball's an easier game than you're trying to make it.

edabbs44
03-09-2008, 08:39 AM
Whether Votto is the future or not, the Reds should never say so when the guy you want to flip (hatteberg) is hitting +.400. And if that is the way it is in April I think the reds should ride it out because maybe they can flip Hatteberg for something and then slide Votto in. The Reds aren't in such good shape that they should just dump guys with value. That's what I think anyway.

I can't see Hatteberg providing enough value (both on the field and in trade) that it would be worth suppressing the growth of one of the best prospects in the organization, even in a best case scenario.

Plus, I'm sure Votto wouldn't be too enthusiastic being sent to the minors again. Don't think these guys don't remember that when it comes time to sign contracts and give up one or 2 years of FA.

Kc61
03-09-2008, 10:11 AM
As is typical around here, folks are very hung up on "who is the starter" and "what is the batting order" and other specifics. At this stage of the game, the Reds need to decide on 25 players. Absent a trade, I think both Hatt and Votto should make the team. Period.

My reading of this thread is that people say -- if Votto isn't starting trade him; if Votto isn't starting send him to AAA. All this is an overreaction. There are a lot of at bats to go around over the course of 162 games and Votto will get plenty of chances this year, whether or not he starts on opening day. Same with Hatte.

It's a good thing that the Reds have these two live bats on the team. Obviously, Votto is the future and this will be a transitional season at that position. For Votto to go north with the big club after spring training is a big step for him, whether or not he's in the lineup opening day.

pedro
03-09-2008, 01:39 PM
I can't see Hatteberg providing enough value (both on the field and in trade) that it would be worth suppressing the growth of one of the best prospects in the organization, even in a best case scenario.

Plus, I'm sure Votto wouldn't be too enthusiastic being sent to the minors again. Don't think these guys don't remember that when it comes time to sign contracts and give up one or 2 years of FA.

Votto's not good enough that reds should even care. He's not going to be the full time first baseman in 3-4 years anyway.