3/13/08 vs Phillies (Game Thread)

[Buckeye33]

Here is your Opening Day lineup folks, minus the DH of course.

7:05, no radio.

Corey Patterson CF
Juan Castro SS
Ken Griffey Jr. RF
Brandon Phillips 2 B
Adam Dunn LF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Joey Votto 1B
Paul Bako C
Chris Dickerson DH

[cumberlandreds]

It is on MLB.com if you want to listen through the internet.
I hope that's not the opening day lineup.

[Buckeye33]

I hope that's not the opening day lineup.

I sure wouldn't be surprised if it was unfortunately.

[Sea Ray]

I doubt that'll be the Opening Day lineup. Patterson might be there but Castro and Bako, I think not. We'll soon see

[LincolnparkRed]

Ross needs to start playing or it could be Bako and Javy for the first couple of weeks

[lollipopcurve]

Ross needs to start playing or it could be Bako and Javy for the first couple of weeks

Barring a trade, count on it.

[redsfan30]

Throw Keppinger in place of Castro and Valentin in place of Bako, and yes, that's probably the Opening Day lineup.

[Raisor]

Corey Patterson CF
Juan Castro SS


Sweet sassy mollassy!

[Chip R]

If Bruce isn't going to get his 4-5 ABs a game they might as well just reassign him to minor league camp.

[BRM]

Ross needs to start playing or it could be Bako and Javy for the first couple of weeks

That's solid.

[BRM]

Sweet sassy mollassy!

You love you some Juan Castro batting 2nd. You must be in heaven today.

[RedsManRick]

I just want some reporter to ask the following question: "Dusty, given that Juan Castro sucks at hitting, why did you decide to give him more at bats than and Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr.?"

[Raisor]

You love you some Juan Castro batting 2nd. You must be in heaven today.

I'm just hoping Pedro is right and he doesn't go North with the team.

I'd miss him though, one less thing to snark about.

[Raisor]

If Bruce isn't going to get his 4-5 ABs a game they might as well just reassign him to minor league camp.

I agree. Get him reps, or get him to the minor league camp.

[BRM]

I'm just hoping Pedro is right and he doesn't go North with the team.

I'd miss him though, one less thing to snark about.

Gonzo's injury makes Castro's status very interesting.

I'm sure you could find someone else to snark on. May I suggest Valentin?

[BRM]

Per C. Trent.

Any guesses as to which things are fading?



From Dusty, not much today, but did ask about being half-way through exhibition games, if there's anything more penned into the schedule.

"The definites are in. There's still quite a bit penciled in. You hope some guys get it together at the last minute and boom -- they get it. I'm always counting on a kid, some kid to have a surprise spring to get it together. So we'll see."

Is there anything inked in that wasn't at the start of spring?
"Nope. There are a few things that are possibly fading, some things you thought were inked in."

[Chip R]

Barring a trade, count on it.


Won't be a trade. If and when Ross is healthy then you would have 3 catchers unless the guy you trade is Javy.

[dabvu2498]

Sounds like a definite maybe.

[cincy09]

Per C. Trent.

Any guesses as to which things are fading?

My guess would be Mr. Homer Bailey

[BRM]

My guess would be Mr. Homer Bailey

Votto was the first name that came to my mind.

[Joseph]

C Trent was just on the radio and he expounded upon a few of these things.

He thinks Hatt is getting so many ABs in an effort to showcase him, not to replace Votto with him.

He also thinks that it would not be surprising to see Bruce reassigned on Saturday to MiL camp.

[Tommyjohn25]

Votto was the first name that came to my mind.

It was Belisle for me.

[TRF]

It was Belisle for me.

I think Belisle has had a very solid ST. He hasn't hurt himself.

Affeldt on the other hand hasn't impressed at all.

[Matt700wlw]

Ross needs to start playing or it could be Bako and Javy for the first couple of weeks

Ross is hurt

[hippie07]

I think he's talking about Bailey & maybe Affeldt. I think by the way he set up the ST rotation he imagined it to be Harang/Arroyo/Affeldt/Belisle/Bailey. I think Bailey has clearly been out performed by Volquez & Cueto.

I think based on ST performance my rotation to break camp is as follows: Harang/Arroyo/Cueto/Volquez/Bailey ... but thats kinda obvious.

[M2]

I think based on ST performance my rotation to break camp is as follows: Harang/Arroyo/Cueto/Volquez/Bailey ... but thats kinda obvious.

Obvious? Homer Bailey's allowed 18 baserunners in 7.1 IP. He's walked as many as he's whiffed. He's been a turnstile out there. Based on ST, he's borderline for the AAA rotation.

[RFS62]

Obvious? Homer Bailey's allowed 18 baserunners in 7.1 IP. He's walked as many as he's whiffed. He's been a turnstile out there. Based on ST, he's borderline for the AAA rotation.



Careful there. He does carry a hunting knife.

[Danny Serafini]

I don't know who's doing this game for mlb.com, but he's quickly putting me to sleep. No hits for either team through 1. Affelt gave up a walk but got a DP to erase him.

[pedro]

I don't know who's doing this game for mlb.com, but he's quickly putting me to sleep. No hits for either team through 1. Affelt gave up a walk but got a DP to erase him.

I believe it's Harry Kalas, Phillies announcer and the voice of NFL films.

[Matt700wlw]

"On the frozen tundra of Ed Smith Stadium..."

I guess that wouldn't work...

[TRF]

I think he's talking about Bailey & maybe Affeldt. I think by the way he set up the ST rotation he imagined it to be Harang/Arroyo/Affeldt/Belisle/Bailey. I think Bailey has clearly been out performed by Volquez & Cueto.

I think based on ST performance my rotation to break camp is as follows: Harang/Arroyo/Cueto/Volquez/Bailey ... but thats kinda obvious.
Well, Bailey hasn't pitched as well as Belisle, That's kinda obvious.

[Danny Serafini]

If you don't want Affeldt in the rotation, the 2nd inning helped your cause. Wes Helms tripled, and he was eventually brought in. Someone named Casey Smith later hit a 3 run homer, it's 4-0 in the middle of the 2nd. This Smith fellow hit a whopping 2 HRs for Salt Lake City last year in the PCL.

[11larkin11]

"On the frozen tundra of Ed Smith Stadium..."

I guess that wouldn't work...


"Here in the clogged up toilets of Ed Smith Stadium..."

[Danny Serafini]

Reds went down 1-2-3 again in the 2nd.

[Aronchis]

Obvious? Homer Bailey's allowed 18 baserunners in 7.1 IP. He's walked as many as he's whiffed. He's been a turnstile out there. Based on ST, he's borderline for the AAA rotation.

You actually think spring training numbers mean anything? Considering the amount of struggle from "proven" vets, it means little to the opening bell rings. Especially for a guy like Bailey who will take longer to rev up than others.

Cueto rise as been a nice surprise, but he smells like a fools gold considering the conditions.

[pedro]

You actually think spring training numbers mean anything? Considering the amount of struggle from "proven" vets, it means little to the opening bell rings. Especially for a guy like Bailey who will take longer to rev up than others.

Cueto rise as been a nice surprise, but he smells like a fools gold considering the conditions.

You just can't resist getting a shot in against Cueto can you?

He's a better pitcher than Homer.

Get over it.

[Chip R]

You actually think spring training numbers mean anything? Considering the amount of struggle from "proven" vets, it means little to the opening bell rings. Especially for a guy like Bailey who will take longer to rev up than others.

Cueto rise as been a nice surprise, but he smells like a fools gold considering the conditions.


It means a helluva lot more for young guys trying to make the team than it does for vets who already have a spot wrapped up.

[Danny Serafini]

Didn't hear how it happened, but Affeldt gave up another run. 5-0, middle 3rd.

[Aronchis]

It means a helluva lot more for young guys trying to make the team than it does for vets who already have a spot wrapped up.

Yep, and then the ones that make the team fail and get sent down. Bailey's struggles against the Yankees looked more like deadarm especially how quickly he lost it after 1.2I of good baseball.

If he doesn't make the team, no big deal from my view. But as also seen with Lincecum, those power hurlers with heavy action fastballs, the command can be slow in coming and Lincecum is already a major league pitcher. Homer is justing growing into one.

I am not sure Cueto is going to do that good. But the Reds pretty much have to throw him in the rotation to start or we will get his bad side ala last year when he didn't get promoted to AA.

[Danny Serafini]

Here's what I'm sure everyone is hoping for, a 2 run single by Juan Castro. Manos de Oro is making his case! Bako and Dickerson had singled before.

[Danny Serafini]

Phillips with a 2 run double off the top of the wall brings in Castro and Griffey, who had taken a 4 pitch walk. 5-4 Phils

[Danny Serafini]

Moyer walked the bases loaded, but Votto took strike 3. 5-4 PHI after 3.

[M2]

You actually think spring training numbers mean anything? Considering the amount of struggle from "proven" vets, it means little to the opening bell rings. Especially for a guy like Bailey who will take longer to rev up than others.

hippie07's the one who said "based on ST performance." I only pointed out that "based on ST performance" Bailey shouldn't get a second thought.

As for him taking longer to rev up, I don't see that. He's already rediscovered his control issues and his fastball's getting hit. Looks in form to me.


Cueto rise as been a nice surprise, but he smells like a fools gold considering the conditions.

Far as I'm concerned, your nose is broken. Cueto may not quite be ready, but not for a single one of the cockamamie reasons you keep pushing.

[Danny Serafini]

Casey Smith strikes again. He brings home a run, 6-4 PHI, no outs in the top of the 4th.

[M2]

Yep, and then the ones that make the team fail and get sent down. Bailey's struggles against the Yankees looked more like deadarm especially how quickly he lost it after 1.2I of good baseball.

And yet you worry that Cueto will tire after 5 IP.


If he doesn't make the team, no big deal from my view. But as also seen with Lincecum, those power hurlers with heavy action fastballs, the command can be slow in coming and Lincecum is already a major league pitcher. Homer is justing growing into one.

Got to tell you, if you're trying to hold a "Which Reds prospect is most like Tim Lincecum contest?" the winner's going to be named Johnny Cueto.

[M2]

So the Affeldt starting experiment has got to be over, right?

[Aronchis]

hippie07's the one who said "based on ST performance." I only pointed out that "based on ST performance" Bailey shouldn't get a second thought.

As for him taking longer to rev up, I don't see that. He's already rediscovered his control issues and his fastball's getting hit. Looks in form to me.



Far as I'm concerned, your nose is broken. Cueto may not quite be ready, but not for a single one of the cockamamie reasons you keep pushing.

Your nose is broken worse. His fastball is getting hit? Uh, so what. Many pitchers fastball will get hit as they work getting ready for the season in spring training. That is why it is called 'spring training'.

FWIW, his "hittable" fastball almost knocked A-Rod over as he got a lucky single. Yes, look again. I thought like other people, A-Rod just slipped, but he almost fell over when the ball hit his bat. That is what I mean by "heavy action".

Tell me another Red that has that kind of fastball? I think not.

The truth is, everybody is going to get ready for the regular season a little differently. Cueto has come out firing all his guns. Volquez has used his changeup to hide his command problems with his fastball. You know, that is nice, but doesn't tell me a thing how their seasons will turn out.

[Danny Serafini]

So the Affeldt starting experiment has got to be over, right?

It is for tonight. After uncorking a wild pitch Dusty decided that was enough. Jim Brower in to pitch.

[Redhook]

So the Affeldt starting experiment has got to be over, right?

Hopefully.

And I also hope it's now Fogg vs. Belisle for the last spot in the rotation. I really hope Cueto and Volquez make it.

[OnBaseMachine]

You just can't resist getting a shot in against Cueto can you?

He's a better pitcher than Homer.

Get over it.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[M2]

Your nose is broken worse. His fastball is getting hit? Uh, so what. Many pitchers fastball will get hit as they work getting ready for the season in spring training. That is why it is called 'spring training'.

Yep. Sure will. Of course, Homer's got hit all last year. Since it's supposed to be his best pitch that's an issue. (BTW, I only busted on the lack of control and hittable fastball because you're being ridiculous about this stuff.)


FWIW, his "hittable" fastball almost knocked A-Rod over as he got a lucky single. Yes, look again. I thought like other people, A-Rod just slipped, but he almost fell over when the ball hit his bat. That is what I mean by "heavy action".

I know what "heavy action" means, but I get a kick out of how many "lucky" hits Homer seems to allow. He must walk under ladders with black cats on them on his way to breaking mirrors or something.


Tell me another Red that has that kind of fastball? I think not.

I'll take Volquez, Roenicke and Cueto in the fastball category over Homer, thank you very much. The first two have a maturity advantage, Cueto can put it where he wants it.


The truth is, everybody is going to get ready for the regular season a little differently. Cueto has come out firing all his guns. Volquez has used his changeup to hide his command problems with his fastball. You know, that is nice, but doesn't tell me a thing how their seasons will turn out.

I agree with you that both Cueto and Volquez have numerous challenges in front of them. That said, they've got a lot more working than Bailey (and I think that's great for Bailey who needs the time and space to develop at this point in time).

[OnBaseMachine]

I am not sure Cueto is going to do that good. But the Reds pretty much have to throw him in the rotation to start or we will get his bad side ala last year when he didn't get promoted to AA.

Keep on trying, someone may come along and actually believe this crap.

[pedro]

Reds pitcher Johnny Cueto, showing the release point for his patented "psych ball" which has batters and scouts mystified.

http://www.fresno.k12.ca.us/divdept/sscience/history/rasputin.a.gif

[OnBaseMachine]

If Volquez has fastball command problems then he sure as heck didn't show it the other night. He was constantly painting the corners with his fastball in almost Pedro like fashion.

[Danny Serafini]

Missed some time, it's now 7-4. Got back just in time to hear Bako air mail a throw into center field.

[nate]

Reds pitcher Johnny Cueto, showing the release point for his patented "psych ball" which has batters and scouts mystified.

http://www.fresno.k12.ca.us/divdept/sscience/history/rasputin.a.gif

Who knew shaving his head would change the way he looks so much?

[Danny Serafini]

One more for the Phillies, though I missed how it happened. 8-4, middle 5th.

[Matt700wlw]

Affeldt got his brains kicked in tonight...3 1/3 innings, 7 runs, 9 hits, 3 Ks, one walk

Is this experiment over now?

[OnBaseMachine]

Affeldt got his brains kicked in tonight...3 1/3 innings, 7 runs, 9 hits, 3 Ks, one walk

Is this experiment over now?

Let's hope.

[Sea Ray]

Didn't hear how it happened, but Affeldt gave up another run. 5-0, middle 3rd.


I'll tell you what, I don't want to hear any *****in' from Affeldt when he finds himself in the bullpen. He chose this team because he saw it as his best chance to start but he's earned this demotion by his on the field performance. I know the Reds would love to have a LH starter in the rotation but this just won't cut it.

[Danny Serafini]

Another 1-2-3 inning, 8-4 Phils after 5. I'm taking off, so if anyone wants to take over what little PBP I've done feel free.

[Aronchis]

If Volquez has fastball command problems then he sure as heck didn't show it the other night. He was constantly painting the corners with his fastball in almost Pedro like fashion.

Considering he barely threw his fastball, how would you know? Which sums up my point exactly.

[OnBaseMachine]

Considering he barely threw his fastball, how would you know? Which sums up my point exactly.

I saw him throw his fastball plenty of times. You apparently watched a different game, or maybe you were too busy plotting up another degrading post of Cueto.:cool:

[Sea Ray]

Missed some time, it's now 7-4. Got back just in time to hear Bako air mail a throw into center field.

And he's supposed to be a defensive catcher right?

[Matt700wlw]

And he's supposed to be a defensive catcher right?

I believe he's the catcher who can "manage a pitching staff"

[M2]

Considering he barely threw his fastball, how would you know? Which sums up my point exactly.

You mean he barely used the fastball that had posters on this board coming out of their shoes in praise of it during the game thread? Odd to see such an overwhelming reaction for something that barely happened.

[edabbs44]

Affeldt got his brains kicked in tonight...3 1/3 innings, 7 runs, 9 hits, 3 Ks, one walk

Is this experiment over now?

Hopefully he earns his millions in the pen.

If not, this was a waste.

[Matt700wlw]

Hopefully he earns his millions in the pen.

If not, this was a waste.

That'd be fine....he has a track record there.

[edabbs44]

That'd be fine....he has a track record there.

As mostly a reliever:

2005: 5.26 ERA, 1.711 WHIP
2006: 6.20 ERA, 1.613 WHIP
2007: 3.51 ERA, 1.356 WHIP

Very short track.

[puca]

Middle relievers are fools gold. My biggest complaint with Krivsky is how often he is fooled.

[TeamBoone]

Can anyone give an update on the game please...

[NC Reds]

The Majik Man gave up 2 runs in 2 innings.....and lowered his ERA to 14.40. Nice.

[NC Reds]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2008_03_13_phimlb_cinmlb_1&refresh=60

Reds fall 10-7. I wish Votto and Bruce would start raking. :(

[*BaseClogger*]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2008_03_13_phimlb_cinmlb_1&refresh=60

Reds fall 10-7. I wish Votto and Bruce would start raking. :(

...and Encarnacion

Rosales got some time at SS BTW...

[Matt700wlw]

Here's your very difficult to follow box score from the game:

Philadelphia Phillies (5-10) 10, Cincinnati Reds (9-8) 7
March 13, 2008

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
Philadelphia 0 4 1 2 1 0 0 0 2 10 13 0
Cincinnati 0 0 4 0 0 1 1 0 1 7 9 1



Philadelphia AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO PO A
Bruntlett, SS .310 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 1
Olmedo, SS .176 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2
Victorino, CF .250 4 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
Bohn, CF .100 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Feliz, 3B .286 3 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 3
a-King, PH-3B .333 2 1 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Burrell, DH .200 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0
b-Snelling, PH-DH .263 2 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Helms, 1B .269 3 1 2 0 1 0 0 1 1 9 2
Dobbs, 1B .286 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
Taguchi, RF .381 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 0
c-Watson, PH-RF .429 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Ruiz, C .389 2 1 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 2 0
Jaramillo, J, C .077 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0
Golson, LF .500 4 2 2 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0
Smith, C, 2B .467 4 2 2 0 0 1 4 0 2 1 4
Moyer, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 2
Outman, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Gordon, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Darensbourg, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Totals .260 37 10 13 5 1 1 10 4 8 27 14

a-Batted for Feliz in the 6th. b-Grounded out for Burrell in the 7th. c-Lined out for Taguchi in the 9th.

BATTING
2B: Ruiz (4, Affeldt), Victorino (2, Affeldt), Golson (1, Affeldt), King (2, Majewski), Snelling (2, Majewski).
3B: Helms (1, Affeldt).
HR: Smith, C (2, 2nd inning off Affeldt, 2 on, 2 out).
RBI: Ruiz (5), Smith, C 4 (6), Burrell (4), Feliz (4), Golson (4), King (3), Snelling (3).
SF: Burrell (off Affeldt).
GIDP: Victorino.
Team RISP: 7-for-14.
Team LOB: 5.

BASERUNNING
SB: Taguchi (2), Smith, C (1), Victorino (2).
CS: Golson (1), Bruntlett (2).
PO: Bruntlett (1st base by Stanton).

FIELDING
DP: (Smith, C-Olmedo-Dobbs).




Cincinnati AVG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO PO A
Patterson, CF .333 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Hairston, CF .500 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0
Castro, SS .250 3 1 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 2
Rosales, SS .320 2 0 2 1 0 0 1 0 0 3 1
Griffey, RF .222 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0
Anderson, Drew T., RF .448 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 0
Phillips, B, 2B .259 3 0 1 1 0 0 2 0 0 4 1
Phillips, A, 2B .241 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
Dunn, LF .263 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0
Green, LF .318 1 1 1 0 0 1 1 2 0 0 0
Encarnacion, 3B .185 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 5
Cabrera, 3B .357 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
Votto, 1B .160 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 6 0
Keppinger, 1B .333 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 3 2
Bako, C .375 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 1
Hanigan, C .200 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0
Dickerson, C, DH .250 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
a-Bruce, PH-DH .276 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Affeldt, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Brower, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Stanton, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Sauerbeck, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Majewski, P .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
Totals .283 35 7 9 2 0 1 6 7 5 27 15

a-Grounded out for Dickerson, C in the 6th.

BATTING
2B: Phillips, B (2, Moyer), Rosales (2, Outman).
HR: Green (2, 6th inning off Outman, 0 on, 0 out).
RBI: Castro 2 (3), Phillips, B 2 (11), Green (7), Rosales (2).
GIDP: Phillips, A.
Team RISP: 2-for-9.
Team LOB: 8.

FIELDING
E: Bako (2).
DP: (Encarnacion-Phillips, B-Votto).




Philadelphia ERA IP H R ER BB SO HR BF
Moyer (W, 2-0) 4.50 5.0 4 4 4 3 2 0 22
Outman 9.35 2.0 3 2 2 2 1 1 11
Gordon 9.82 1.0 0 0 0 0 1 0 3
Darensbourg 3.60 1.0 2 1 1 2 1 0 6
Totals 6.73 9.0 9 7 7 7 5 1 42


Cincinnati ERA IP H R ER BB SO HR BF
Affeldt (L, 0-2) 11.57 3.1 9 7 7 1 3 1 19
Brower 12.00 1.2 1 1 0 1 2 0 7
Stanton 3.60 1.0 0 0 0 1 1 0 3
Sauerbeck 27.00 1.0 0 0 0 1 1 0 4
Majewski 14.40 2.0 3 2 2 0 1 0 9
Totals 6.43 9.0 13 10 9 4 8 1 42


Team ER: off Philadelphia 7, off Cincinnati 9.
BB: off Moyer 3 (Griffey, Dunn, Encarnacion), Outman 2 (Hairston, Green), Darensbourg 2 (Anderson, Drew T., Green), off Affeldt 1 (Bruntlett), Brower 1 (Ruiz), Stanton 1 (Bruntlett), Sauerbeck 1 (Helms).
SO: by Moyer 2 (Votto, Votto), Outman 1 (Anderson, Drew T.), Gordon 1 (Keppinger), Darensbourg 1 (Cabrera), by Affeldt 3 (Feliz, Burrell, Bruntlett), Brower 2 (Burrell, Helms), Stanton 1 (Smith, C), Sauerbeck 1 (Taguchi), Majewski 1 (Smith, C).
WP: Brower.
Umpires: HP: Sam Holbrook. 1B: Tim Welke. 2B: Jeff Kellogg. 3B: Bill Welke.
Official Scorer: John Brockmann.
Weather: 67 degrees, clear.
Wind: 10 mph, Out to LF.
T: 3:04.
Att: 6,582.