Eddie E

[DTCromer]

Good thing he turned the corner last year.

:rolleyes:

[justincredible]

That was a brutal throw.

[TheBigLebowski]

I've seen enough. Two games, two crucial (and outright AWFUL) throwing errors. He better not start tomorrow.

[AccordinglyReds]

:(

Maybe his anemic hitting is getting in his head. Looked like he just rushed that throw, though.

[Rounding Third]

This team looks top to bottom baaaad, its not just Edwin. Although I threw up in my mouth on that throw.

[redhawk61]

This team looks top to bottom baaaad, its not just Edwin. Although I threw up in my mouth on that throw.

agreed, we might be seeing Bruce sooner than later to help jump start this offense, I'm seeing by the second week of May

[Redlegs]

No more excuses. Keppinger's better and should be the everyday 3rd baseman when Gonzo comes back. In the meantime, I go with Freel at 3rd. Dusty says April games are just as important as September. We'll see what he does about it.

[Rounding Third]

No more excuses. Keppinger's better and should be the everyday 3rd baseman when Gonzo comes back. In the meantime, I go with Freel at 3rd. Dusty says April games are just as important as September. We'll see what he does about it.

It is 2 games into the season. As long as Edwin's bat picks up I don't think they should sit him. He was good last year, and once again - it is 2 games into the year.

People after 1 game were calling Keppinger a bench player. Look what he has done today.

I am as upset as everyone else is about this, but just gotta bear down and relax. 2 games against a good team.

[keeganbrick]

I dont expect to see EE playing that much either when Gonzo comes back, unless his bat really heats up. Gosh, I wish they would just bring up Bruce and play him for Griffey every 3rd day or something.

[gilpdawg]

Eat that Jeff Brantley. Idiot.

At least he was man enough to admit he looked like a fool there.

[Rounding Third]

Redszone and Jeff Brantley are terrible

[fugowitribe]

Easy on Brantley, he was right before that swing. Look at EE's career. He only hits when the Reds are not contenders. Granted that is usually by the All-Star break, but he only hit well last year after being sent to AAA.

[DTCromer]

I don't think anyone is really questioning Eddie E's hitting abilities.

But it scares the bejesus out of me that 3rd graders are more consistent throwers than Eddie.

[bubbachunk]

Everyone is overreacting to everything so far this season yeesh

[AdamDunn]

I've seen enough. Two games, two crucial (and outright AWFUL) throwing errors. He better not start tomorrow.

Take it easy. Even the best fielders sometimes have back to back games with errors (not to say Edwin is a good fielder). I give him till the All-Star break to prove either that his bat compensates for his fielding mistakes, or his fielding is better than what he's shown so far.

[DTCromer]

Everyone is overreacting to everything so far this season yeesh

Overreacting to Eddie E? He's the only player I'm worried about. His fielding last year after his demotion was superb. I thought he really turned it around. I know it's only 2 games, but he's going to continue to get hassled by Reds fans until be proves he can consistently throw the ball around the infield.

[bubbachunk]

Overreacting to Eddie E? He's the only player I'm worried about. His fielding last year after his demotion was superb. I thought he really turned it around. I know it's only 2 games, but he's going to continue to get hassled by Reds fans until be proves he can consistently throw the ball around the infield.

He is going to make errors end of story. He will most likely never be a gold glover his arm is just to erratic. What you have to hope is that he limits them and is consistent, but I think he will just go through steaks like a hitter with his fielding. Sometime he will play great not missing a through then a couple bad games.

[NorrisHopper30]

Lyon only allowed two home runs in 74 innings last season.

[hebroncougar]

Good thing he turned the corner last year.

:rolleyes:

Good thing EdE didn't quit after he made the error, like you did on him tonight. Players make mistakes. He certainly makes his fair share in the field. That is a part of his game that needs some serious attention. It's up to the coaching staff and EdE to fix it, and in the meantime, continue to hit like he did in the 2nd half of the summer last year.

Here's a stat for you.........last year Encarnacion's fielding percentage was .953, league average at 3b was .954. His D isn't as bad as people think it is.

[Blue]

This thread is downright comical.

EdE is doing the same thing he's always done when he struggles defensively: failing to get on top of the ball. He'll figure it out just like last year.

[Rounding Third]

Good thing EdE didn't quit after he made the error, like you did on him tonight. Players make mistakes. He certainly makes his fair share in the field. That is a part of his game that needs some serious attention. It's up to the coaching staff and EdE to fix it, and in the meantime, continue to hit like he did in the 2nd half of the summer last year.



:beerme:

Couldn't have said it better

[AccordinglyReds]

Great ending to the game tonight with EE coming up with the HR. So glad it was him and hopefully he doesn't get down on himself and keeps up his "aggressiveness". :p

[fugowitribe]

How great would it be to have three 30 homer guys in the lineup? Dunn, BP, and EE and maybe even Griffey. When was the last time a team had 3 or 4 guys over 30HR in a single season?

[goreds2]

I've seen enough. Two games, two crucial (and outright AWFUL) throwing errors. He better not start tomorrow.

NOTE: Tony Perez started at 3rd base from 1967-71
(Errors = 13, 25,32,35 and 18) He never got any better though which prompted the trade of Lee May. They put up with the errors because of his bat.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/perezto01.shtml

XM175 Homeplate has been replaying Marty's HR call all morning.

[jhiller21]

Eddie is gonna have a breakout season, no doubt about it.

It's not about today's walk-off homer, and it has nothing to do with the two throwing errors so far.

Trust me...

[reds2221]

so he has 2 errors so far. I'm not worried about it yet, we're just 2 games into the season. Unless these do continue every single day, I think they should wait till the end of the month to decide whether or not his bat is worth his glove.

[Redlegs]

I hope Eddie has a great year. I stand by my statement regarding Keppinger, however. I think he should play every single day. Encarnarcion seems to be a head case to me. He's had enough big league exposure. He shouldn't look lost at times. It's one thing to struggle at the plate, but when you take it to the field with you, that's big trouble.

As for Jeff Brantley. I like the Cowboy. Dusty said everyone will be asked to bunt during the 2008 season. Get used to it.

[DTCromer]

Good thing EdE didn't quit after he made the error, like you did on him tonight. Players make mistakes. He certainly makes his fair share in the field. That is a part of his game that needs some serious attention. It's up to the coaching staff and EdE to fix it, and in the meantime, continue to hit like he did in the 2nd half of the summer last year.

Here's a stat for you.........last year Encarnacion's fielding percentage was .953, league average at 3b was .954. His D isn't as bad as people think it is.


OK, come back to me if we ever make the playoffs and there's a routine grounder to win the NLCS or WS and EE goes Buckner on us.

How it still doesn't concern anyone is beyond me.

[keeganbrick]

One upside I have noticed with Edwin this year is how good of an eye he seems to have now. Last year he swung at a lot of bad pitches and this year he seems to be a lot more patient and drawing a lot more walks. Leads the team with 7 walks so far this year.

[DTCromer]

Can I make another EE post after that abysmal AB he just had?

[fugowitribe]

He can't hit anything off speed. He is so far out in front of curveballs he looks like a kid at the Little League World Series seeing one for the first time. Even when he does guess right and calls the curve, he can't make contact.

[NeilHamburger]

When Gonzo comes back EE should go back to AAA and learn how to hit and field.

[Oxblood]

When Gonzo comes back EE should go back to AAA and learn how to hit and field.
I agree, you gotta keep Keppinger over EdE. The kid needs more work.

[CySeymour]

When Gonzo comes back EE should go back to AAA and learn how to hit and field.

So I guess hitting .289 last year shows he can't hit? You're basing this after one week of the season that he can't hit?

[DTCromer]

So I guess hitting .289 last year shows he can't hit? You're basing this after one week of the season that he can't hit?

Nope. We're basing this off of his incredible inconsistency and how his baseball IQ seems to be extremely low at the plate.

[BLEEDS]

So I guess hitting .289 last year shows he can't hit? You're basing this after one week of the season that he can't hit?

These SunDeck board experts only need one week to determine a player's career - let alone year.

It is obvious that EE will never be anything other than camp fodder. Juan Castro should get the nod at 3rd base. Get it through your head.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[DTCromer]

These SunDeck board experts only need one week to determine a player's career - let alone year.

It is obvious that EE will never be anything other than camp fodder. Juan Castro should get the nod at 3rd base. Get it through your head.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

We Sun Deckians approve of your condescending tone.

So far, Eddie E has stunk at the plate (minus 1 AB) and made 2 pretty bad errors in the field (maybe including 1 more from last night).

Use your reading comprehension skills and realize that no one wants Juan Castro playing. We just want Edwin to make the simply plays and do smart things at the plate like not swinging on the first pitch after the pitcher has just threw 4 straight balls.

Let's also not forget that these are the same issues we've been having with EE since he's been up here. He'll obviously get better at the plate, but we're just going to have to learn to deal with his inconsistency on the field and at the plate.

[Cicero]

His defense has been consistently bad. His struggles at the plate would be tolerable if his defensive play was solid. There is no reason to keep him in the lineup.

[texasdave]

I am not the biggest Encarnacion fan, but eight games is a bit premature. I think eventually Edwin will be a slightly above average major league hitter. But as has been mentioned, his fielding has and still does pull him down. I am surprised that he has gotten off to another slow start. I thought playing Winter Ball would have him ready when the bell rings. Any opposing pitcher who throws EdE a fastball right now is crazy.

[UK Reds Fan]

Honestly,
It is getting old with Eddie E hot and cold both defensively and offensively. But we probably need to go with him to some degree right now. I'd vote moving Patterson behind Dunn and Votto/Hatteburg to the 2 hole. Eddie E is wasting RBI chances behind Dunn.

For the future, I'd hold with Eddie E until he starts arbitration and move him or DFA outright. With Keppinger/Freel/Rosales for the present and near future and then we have a load of 3B in the pipeline. Francisco, Waring and Frazier. Eddie E doesn't appear to be the future at this point.

[CySeymour]

His defense has been consistently bad. His struggles at the plate would be tolerable if his defensive play was solid. There is no reason to keep him in the lineup.

There again, you are basing this on one week? Come on! So whenever EdE has a bad week, he should be sat down?

[Moosie52]

Edwin has a pretty good upside, even if he's not producing right now.

[howyoufreelin]

He's a slow starter. Everyone knows this. He'll come around. He was the best hitter and run producer on the team last year after he came up from AAA.

[durl]

He showed that he CAN be a very good hitter last year plus he's very good with RISP. It's not his bat or his glove that bother me. It's that every time he pulls the ball out of his glove to make a throw, you don't know where the ball will end up.

This is just my opinion but, right now, I'd rather have Keppinger's consistency and smaller range than Edwin's power and throwing arm.

[AmarilloRed]

Keppinger simply puts more pressure on Edwin. Edwin will go through cold and hot spells offensively, but you have to worry he is not making any improvement defensively. I would give Keppinger some starts at third and see how his defense is there, before I would hand him the starting job however.

[NeilHamburger]

You guys are missing the point, let him slow start in AAA then. Don't cost the team runs now, when Gonzo comes back send him down, when he gets hot bring him back. There is no need to keep in the majors, just do what you did last year.

[CySeymour]

You guys are missing the point, let him slow start in AAA then. Don't cost the team runs now, when Gonzo comes back send him down, when he gets hot bring him back. There is no need to keep in the majors, just do what you did last year.

So what, every player who is a supposed slow starter should start in the minors? Guess where he is going to learn how to adjust to major league pitching the best: right, actually in the major leagues. At this point, there is nothing left for him to learn hitting wise at AAA.

[UK Reds Fan]

So what, every player who is a supposed slow starter should start in the minors? Guess where he is going to learn how to adjust to major league pitching the best: right, actually in the major leagues. At this point, there is nothing left for him to learn hitting wise at AAA.

I think the major point is when you have a better option at 3rd in Keppinger when Gonzo comes back, why allow the Major league team to suffer when he can go to AAA and warm up before coming back to Cincy?

Having a black hole behind Dunn and not tearing it up on defense doesn't make a lot of sense when Keppinger is doing so well.

[CySeymour]

I think the major point is when you have a better option at 3rd in Keppinger when Gonzo comes back, why allow the Major league team to suffer when he can go to AAA and warm up before coming back to Cincy?

Having a black hole behind Dunn and not tearing it up on defense doesn't make a lot of sense when Keppinger is doing so well.

So, you are making this decision after what, 8 games? Let's at least look at the bigger picture here. Gonzo isn't likely to get better as a hitter at age 31. As Marty likes to say, "he is what he is." Which is a career 80 OPS+ after 1,117 career games played. EdE is a career 101 OPS+ after 333 carreer games. And at age 25, he figures to only get better as a hitter. Kepp is a career 112 OPS+ hitter after 130 games played. Basically, EdE avoids outs and can drive the ball, and Gonzo is an out machine.

[NeilHamburger]

So what, every player who is a supposed slow starter should start in the minors? Guess where he is going to learn how to adjust to major league pitching the best: right, actually in the major leagues. At this point, there is nothing left for him to learn hitting wise at AAA.

This is his third year in the majors, don't act like it's his first. I'm not even saying send him down right now, I'm saying if he's hitting like this when Gonzo comes back, that's like 2 weeks away. Are you honestly saying that if EE is hitting .083 at the end of April you would be really opposed to sending him down?

[757690]

No need to send EE down. Why not move Kepp to third, and have EE be the RH part of a platoon with Votto? He clearly will never be a good defensive 3B, but his biggest problem is with throws, so 1B is perfect for him. This will also give the Reds the RH hitter off the bench they need.

[CySeymour]

Are you honestly saying that if EE is hitting .083 at the end of April you would be really opposed to sending him down?

Are you honestly saying you think he will be hitting .083 at the end of April?

[Cicero]

There again, you are basing this on one week? Come on! So whenever EdE has a bad week, he should be sat down?


His fielding makes me want him to sit. The slump just reinforces that. It was the same kind of thing last year too. His defense is terrible.

[Cicero]

Are you honestly saying you think he will be hitting .083 at the end of April?

Yeah that's kind of a dumb prediction. More like .075 at best. :D

[mlbfan30]

# BA OBP SLG OPS
A .094 .147 .188 .335 Alfonso Soriano
B .100 .280 .250 .530 Miguel Cabrera
C .083 .333 .208 .542 Edwin Encarnacion
D .103 .257 .138 .395 Russell Martin
E .103 .278 .207 .485 David Ortiz
F .115 .148 .115 .264 Placido Polanco
G .130 .375 .130 .505 Adam Dunn
H .087 .160 .130 .290 Adam LaRoche

So.... EE as the highest OPS out of all these All-Star and maybe even HOF players. The point is... IT'S ONLY A WEEK!. Seriously, give him some time and he'll be fine. None of these other players are getting benched.

EE has the most walks in baseball and the biggest reason for this is because he has no protection behind him. EE's BABIP is .063 He's doing fine and you guys need to be patient

[PickOff]

I think I've spotted about 4 compelling posts in this thread.


EE is clearly a better batter than Gonzo or Freel and sports a career OPS of .905 with RISP.

EE gets to more balls at 3rd because of his athleticism than would Kepp or Freel

The Reds need all the right handed pop they can get.

We are 8 games into the season.

EE OBP is .333 right now while struggling(.348 career), Gonzo's is .295 for his career!

EE is 25 years old!

...and yes EE throws the ball away more than he should.


What does all of this add up to? Clearly a demotion to AAA :rolleyes:

[DTCromer]

I think I've spotted about 4 compelling posts in this thread.


EE is clearly a better batter than Gonzo or Freel and sports a career OPS of .905 with RISP.

EE gets to more balls at 3rd because of his athleticism than would Kepp or Freel

The Reds need all the right handed pop they can get.

We are 8 games into the season.

EE OBP is .333 right now while struggling(.348 career), Gonzo's is .295 for his career!

EE is 25 years old!

...and yes EE throws the ball away more than he should.


What does all of this add up to? Clearly a demotion to AAA :rolleyes:

Again, I'm not arguing that he should be demoted to AAA.

Once again. . . .I'm saying that he needs to get his collective you know what out of his you know what. The Reds need him to hit and I want him to hit. But his consistent inconsistency is irritating.

[CWRed]

# BA OBP SLG OPS
A .094 .147 .188 .335 Alfonso Soriano
B .100 .280 .250 .530 Miguel Cabrera
C .083 .333 .208 .542 Edwin Encarnacion
D .103 .257 .138 .395 Russell Martin
E .103 .278 .207 .485 David Ortiz
F .115 .148 .115 .264 Placido Polanco
G .130 .375 .130 .505 Adam Dunn
H .087 .160 .130 .290 Adam LaRoche

So.... EE as the highest OPS out of all these All-Star and maybe even HOF players. The point is... IT'S ONLY A WEEK!. Seriously, give him some time and he'll be fine. None of these other players are getting benched.

EE has the most walks in baseball and the biggest reason for this is because he has no protection behind him. EE's BABIP is .063 He's doing fine and you guys need to be patient

Thank you. Thank you for posting this. EE will be fine. Play him every day. Not in AAA. Every day in the bigs. All the time. Not Freel. EE. Not Castro. Please not Castro. EE...how quickly people forget last year. :beerme:

[DTCromer]

Congrats for Edwin for leaving the bases loaded not once. . . .BUT TWICE!

So much for being a clutch hitter.

I really, really, really wish this thread would die, but Edwin's making it harder for everyone by the day.

Nice job Eddie. :clap:

[captainmorgan07]

He is really scuffling right now. I thought maybe after the day off then the next day when he had a productive day at the plate he would knock himself out of the funk. Leaving the bases loaded twice was a major disappointment. He did have one base hit but that was a squibber that died and bautista put it in his pocket with no throw. He didn't hit any balls hard tonite and i think he is having trouble seeing the ball. Anyone ever notice how he jumps out of the way on alot of inside pitches that are not close to hitting him.

[DTCromer]

I'm serious when I say I hope I don't have to post in this thread anymore. Had he went 1-4 tonight with 0 LOB, it would be a different story. However, it's just plain embarassing how inconsistent this guy is. I'm sorry for it being only 11 games in, but this guy's AAA moments balance out his All Star moments.

That's not going to cut it at this level.

[757690]

My biggest concern is not his numbers, but his approach to the plate. I am confident that EE can be a big time producer for the Reds, but not with his present approach.
He is trying to not only pull everything, but he is trying to crush every pitch he swings at. That is why he has two homers and only four hits. If he would just relax and take a few pitches up the middle or the other way, he would be much more productive.

I saw Keppinger take batting practice down in Sarasota this year. He never once swung for the fences, even though it was batting practice. He would try to hit every pitch up the middle, then to left field, then to right field. It was very impressive. If EE can learn to have that approach, he should be fine.

[PickOff]

I'm serious when I say I hope I don't have to post in this thread anymore. Had he went 1-4 tonight with 0 LOB, it would be a different story. However, it's just plain embarassing how inconsistent this guy is. I'm sorry for it being only 11 games in, but this guy's AAA moments balance out his All Star moments.

That's not going to cut it at this level.

What would be an "acceptable" level of performance for EE for the entire year?

I'd like to see the stats you would expect, and then we can look at those across the entire year and not have to go through bashing EE for every off day he has.

I guess we can all just ignore EE's 2 for 3, 1 HR, 2 RBI, 2 runs, 1 BB performance the night before then as well, right?

[AmarilloRed]

What would be an "acceptable" level of performance for EE for the entire year?

I'd like to see the stats you would expect, and then we can look at those across the entire year and not have to go through bashing EE for every off day he has.

I guess we can all just ignore EE's 2 for 3, 1 HR, 2 RBI, 2 runs, 1 BB performance the night before then as well, right?

That was 1 game . I think most of us expect a consistant level of production, and better defense as well. I expect a .290 BA, 90 runs, 20-25 HR, and 90 RBI; but maybe my expectations are too high. It would also help if he can cut down on the throwing errors.

[James B.]

That was 1 game . I think most of us expect a consistant level of production, and better defense as well. I expect a .290 BA, 90 runs, 20-25 HR, and 90 RBI; but maybe my expectations are too high. It would also help if he can cut down on the throwing errors.

That kind of year is still possible. It is still very early and he got off to a slow start last year.

[Cicero]

Bases loaded down by one run. Routine pop out!! Way to go Edwin!

[OesterPoster]

EEEEEdwin EEEEEncarnacion. Can't hit. Can't field.

[_Sir_Charles_]

First pitch swinging no less. *sigh* Bases loaded and a new pitcher coming in who's got a tendency to be wild. Good lord.

And how does he follow up this great ab? Immediate throwing error on the next play. Good lord.

[captainmorgan07]

I've had it with edwin so far this season. To many runners left in scoring position for a guy who's praised around here for his hitting with men in scoring position. He's just to darn inconsistent. He's like Brandon Larson version 2. His defense has seemed to regress and he makes errors at the wrong times. When Gonzo comes back i want to see Keppinger and Ede split time at 3rd.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Reds have 8 errors this year so far....Edwin's got FOUR of them. :-(

[BoCcc2832]

bring up jolbert cabrera or andy phillips and send EE down...for a long time...he's detrimental to our team

[_Sir_Charles_]

Or Adam Rosales. Yeah, he's not hitting in Louisville right now but his defense is head and shoulders above Edwins. We simply don't have a solid bat AND glove man for the hot corner right now.

[Cicero]

I'll take a glove over a bat right now.

[kaldaniels]

A demotion after the game tommorrow would not shock me in the least.

[jmac]

A demotion after the game tommorrow would not shock me in the least.

After tomorrow would shock me but I will say I believe Dusty's patience with him isnt too high right now.

[Newman4]

A friend of mine said EE refers to his fielding stats not his initials. :D I hope Edwin turns it around, but I had to laugh.

[captainmorgan07]

it's not his glove that is his problem. It's his throwin arm. It's so inaccurate it cause overthrows or throw to be in the dirt that aren't the easiest to pick out for hatte/or votto.

[DTCromer]

What would be an "acceptable" level of performance for EE for the entire year?

I'd like to see the stats you would expect, and then we can look at those across the entire year and not have to go through bashing EE for every off day he has.

I guess we can all just ignore EE's 2 for 3, 1 HR, 2 RBI, 2 runs, 1 BB performance the night before then as well, right?

I'm not sure what an acceptable "level" would be. Hitting .290 would be pretty good, but that doesn't mean anything if he continually K's or hits pop outs for our best "clutch" hitter.

Unfortunately, as I've been stating, Eddie E has been the worst player on our team thus far this year. He's been our worst player, but then at times, he may be our best player sometime this year. And AGAIN. . .that just isn't going to cut it at this level.

[Big Hurt]

IMO it is a big year for EE. He has had time to figure things out but he still falls into some bad habits. I think we were all pleased by the way he came back from the minors last year and you expect that inconsitancy from a youngster. He even played Winter Ball, I believe. Even though he is still fairly young, he has to figure out and be able to replicate good throws and swings. We all see the potential but I think he is a hair away from being replaced by Freel and sent back to Louisville (if he still has options). If he gets to Louisville and still continues to skid he might become trade bait for a team willing to take a flyer on his potential (see Josh Hamilton and Corey Patterson).

[texasdave]

Edwin Encarnacion is brutal with the leather. Just awful.

[MotownRed]

I was at the Pirate game today and he was absoltely brutal in the field. The botched bunt was his fault too.

[DTCromer]

EE is like Adam Dunn. Guys who have great talent, but have glaring deficiencies that make it hard to defend them.

[HeatherC1212]

EE may have had a little trouble fielding today but he's accounted for all the Reds runs today. Where is the flipping offense in this game?!? :eek:

OMG, it's in the 10th inning!! HOLY CRAP!! :lol:

[TheOnlyRedsFan]

This guy is like a roller coaster

[UC_Ken]

I thought the guy who he was during the second half of last year was EE coming into his own defensively. I'm not ready to pull the plug this quickly on him playing 3B but when making plans for next season EE in LF has to be at least a consideration.

By the way he probably has the highest OPS on the team now.

[mlbfan30]

Player A
BA OBP SLG R / HR / RBI
.254 .312 .380 9 / 1 / 5

Player B
BA OBP SLG R / HR / RBI
.258 .378 .484 8 / 4 / 9

Player C
BA OBP SLG R / HR / RBI
.298 .298 .553 7 / 3 / 10


Player B gets crucified for the last 3 weeks and everyone calls for his demotion. Player A is the hero and NEVER gets any bad press. Everyone loves Player A no matter how bad he produces. It's all Players Bs fault while Player A is perfect. Player C was called a AAAA player for about 2 weeks. His low OBP is due to Manager B telling him not to walk.

[Kingspoint]

I thought the guy who he was during the second half of last year was EE coming into his own defensively. I'm not ready to pull the plug this quickly on him playing 3B but when making plans for next season EE in LF has to be at least a consideration.

By the way he probably has the highest OPS on the team now.

Wade Boggs was an absolutely crappy Third Basemen his first several years in the Majors. He eventually won a Gold Glove. Boggs didn't have half the skills EE has defensively. Dunn doesn't have half the skills Boggs had defensively.

EE has great defensive instincts and skills. It's consistency that he needs. That only comes with experience and time. He'll eventually become an above average Defender. Ignore the crap some posters here tell you that only young players can play good defense and that the older you get the worse you get. They don't know what they're talking about as there aren't any statistics invented yet that measure a player's defense accurately. You have to go by what you see, and Encarnacion will become more consistent as he gets more playing time.

[UC_Ken]

When there was a thread on here asking if player A was a better hitter than player B many laughed at the suggestion that B was better. Player A is swinging for the fences like he's Mark McGwire lately, and looking absolutely terrible doing it.

[UC_Ken]

Wade Boggs was an absolutely crappy Third Basemen his first several years in the Majors. He eventually won a Gold Glove. Boggs didn't have half the skills EE has defensively. Dunn doesn't have half the skills Boggs had defensively.

EE has great defensive instincts and skills. It's consistency that he needs. That only comes with experience and time. He'll eventually become an above average Defender. Ignore the crap some posters here tell you that only young players can play good defense and that the older you get the worse you get. They don't know what they're talking about as there aren't any statistics invented yet that measure a player's defense accurately. You have to go by what you see, and Encarnacion will become more consistent as he gets more playing time.

I agree with this, I'm just saying if EE has 40 errors this season I would have to consider it.

[757690]

Player A
BA OBP SLG R / HR / RBI
.254 .312 .380 9 / 1 / 5

Player B
BA OBP SLG R / HR / RBI
.258 .378 .484 8 / 4 / 9

Player C
BA OBP SLG R / HR / RBI
.298 .298 .553 7 / 3 / 10


Player B gets crucified for the last 3 weeks and everyone calls for his demotion. Player A is the hero and NEVER gets any bad press. Everyone loves Player A no matter how bad he produces. It's all Players Bs fault while Player A is perfect. Player C was called a AAAA player for about 2 weeks. His low OBP is due to Manager B telling him not to walk.


If EE was playing the defense that BP plays, then he would not be getting crucified. The problem with EE is that people could put up with him being in a slump if he could play even decent defense. BP is a gold glove caliber 2B and could hit .250 .300 .350 and still deserve to start at 2B. Even if EE hits .300 .380 .475, I would not want him as the everyday 3B until he improves his defense.


As for Votto, isn't this a sign that Dusty was right about him being more aggresive? He might have a lower OPB, but it is still respectable, and his SLG has improved. His OPS is actually higher than it was in the majpors last year, and it was great last year. He is crushing the ball in crucial situations and driving in more runs, which is what Dusty wanted. I think Votto should thank Dusty for making him a better, more valuable hitter.

[UC_Ken]

As for Votto, isn't this a sign that Dusty was right about him being more aggresive? He might have a lower OPB, but it is still respectable, and his SLG has improved.

In what league is a sub .300 OPB respectable? It's not it's absolutely terrible. If his slugging goes down (it will) he needs to greatly increase his OBP.

[757690]

In what league is a sub .300 OPB respectable? It's not it's absolutely terrible. If his slugging goes down (it will) he needs to greatly increase his OBP.

First, I was looking at his stats from before Sunday's game, which had him at .326 OBP. This just shows how meaningless early stats are, a guy loses close to 30 points in one game.

Second, his OBP will go up, since he will get walks, he has zero so far. Again pointing out how meaningless early stats are. The key is that he is not being overly aggressive, he is not swinging at pitches he shouldn't be, otherwise his batting average and SLG would not be as high as they are. If he was batting 1 or 2, I would worry about OBP, but if he is batting 6th or 7th, then I am more concerned with his SLG, which was Dusty's point.

The real question that makes my point, is "Are you happy with the way Votto is hitting right now?" I say yes, even if he has not walked yet. Dusty clearly has not "ruined" him.

[DTCromer]

Eddie E is officially on fire.

[mlbfan30]

Guess who's leading the team in OPS?

Lesson : Don't overreact to small sample size

[texasdave]

Guess who's leading the team in OPS?

Lesson : Don't overreact to small sample size

So 13 games is a small sample size, but 20 isn't?

[BLEEDS]

So 13 games is a small sample size, but 20 isn't?

Only because it's the START of the season are these Keyboard GM's calling for his head.

If it was July, it'd be called a SLUMP.

EE will be fine by the end of the year. Yes, he is not consistent. He doesn't go 1.16 for 3.97 with .123 HR every night...

RELAX PEOPLE!!!:bash:

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Va Red Fan]

I still say he costs more on defense than he supplies on offense.

[UC_Ken]

He has the highest OPS on the team. I'd rather play with only 8 defenders than take his bat out of the lineup.

[Mutaman]

I still say he costs more on defense than he supplies on offense.


Then I guess you're in favor of playing Gonzalez over Keppinger?

[bgwilly31]

A lot of you are now praising EE because of this so-called hitting streak.


Yet were still losing.

Lets see EE continue this streak when/if we ever start winning.

That way the pitchers arent pitching to him with a 5+run cushion.

[UC_Ken]

A lot of you are now praising EE because of this so-called hitting streak.


Yet were still losing.

Lets see EE continue this streak when/if we ever start winning.

That way the pitchers arent pitching to him with a 5+run cushion.

It's EE's fault that everyone else isn't hitting.

Makes sense he gets blamed for everything else around here. By the way which one of his 2 HR's on Sunday were meaningless? The one that sent it into extras or the one that started the rally in the 10th? What about the game winner in game 2? Hardly seems like a player racking up stats in blowouts.

[mlbfan30]

A lot of you are now praising EE because of this so-called hitting streak.


Yet were still losing.

Lets see EE continue this streak when/if we ever start winning.

That way the pitchers arent pitching to him with a 5+run cushion.

EE just has been spraying random hits for the past 11 games with a 11 game hit streak. This reminds me of Arod, when people say he only hits when the game doesn't matter.

Late & Close are PA in the 7th or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck.
In those situations EE has a 1.544 OPS with 3HR and 7 RBI.
In high leverage situations, EE has a 1.407 OPS.
He is about 20th in baseball in WPA, and 1st on the Reds
He leads the Team in BRAA (batting runs above average)
And he's doing this while second on the team in pLI (A player’s average LI for all game events.)
EE has created 6 more runs of offense more than BP in less than a month! That's really amazing. Last year EE was 2nd in BRAA on the team behind Dunn.

Does that sound like his hits don't matter? He's probably the best pure hitter on the team, and should be 4th all the time no matter what. Seriously, take a look at the stats before you say something like that.

[Hondo]

EE just has been spraying random hits for the past 11 games with a 11 game hit streak. This reminds me of Arod, when people say he only hits when the game doesn't matter.

Late & Close are PA in the 7th or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck.
In those situations EE has a 1.544 OPS with 3HR and 7 RBI.
In high leverage situations, EE has a 1.407 OPS.
He is about 20th in baseball in WPA, and 1st on the Reds
He leads the Team in BRAA (batting runs above average)
And he's doing this while second on the team in pLI (A player’s average LI for all game events.)
EE has created 6 more runs of offense more than BP in less than a month! That's really amazing. Last year EE was 2nd in BRAA on the team behind Dunn.

Does that sound like his hits don't matter? He's probably the best pure hitter on the team, and should be 4th all the time no matter what. Seriously, take a look at the stats before you say something like that.

Do you really think he can be productive Hitting 4th? I understand the Late Inning Pressure stats but I don't think He can handle being the Clean Up Hitter... But I will tell you one thing.

It is better for Dusty to make a decision and go with a Line Up and stick with it then to constantly Bob Boone Tinker the Line Up.

Like when Dusty finally let Votto Start...

[Va Red Fan]

Then I guess you're in favor of playing Gonzalez over Keppinger?

No, but Kepp its all the time and EE does on occasion.

[keeganbrick]

Keppinger would prolly be worse off at third than he would at short. I dont think he has the arm to play 3rd base on a consistant basis. EE has good range and a great arm, he just goofs on the routine plays. He really isnt as bad as everyone on here makes him out to be. If Dusty is going to keep hitting Phillips cleanup to split up the lefties I dunno why he wouldnt give EE a shot real soon with Phillips struggles this year.

[AccordinglyReds]

EE! What a huge play! That was awesome!

:)

[TheOnlyRedsFan]

that was a fine play

[goreds2]

EE! What a huge play! That was awesome!

:)


I heard it on the radio. Hopefully, I will see the replay on reds.com etc.

[fugowitribe]

I'm still a hater, but WOW! what a "clutch" play.

[TheOnlyRedsFan]

with a kick in the head to Bako, EE makes another fine defensive grab

[AccordinglyReds]

with a kick in the head to Bako, EE makes another fine defensive grab

Haha Bako's reaction (shaking his head) was priceless. :)

We'll take it! Nice job, Reds! :thumbup:

[Degenerate39]

EE is clutch in the field and at the plate

[mlbfan30]

Well according to some people EE did horrible defensively today because he made an error.

He got to the ball that few people would have and made an offline throw.

People need to remember, Errors are a misleading stat because they only count plays the player touches. I'm not saying he's great, or even average. I'm just saying that you can't judge a player on Errors like many do with EE.

[jhiller21]

That play to end the 7th was incredible, as was the game ending catch in foul territory. Eddie will have his bad throws and hitting slumps, but he can make some amazing plays in the field.

The routine plays will become more, well, routine for EE in years to come.

[HeatherC1212]

Awesome plays tonight from Edwin! I think EE is becoming a walking web gem for the Reds. :D

[DTCromer]

Well according to some people EE did horrible defensively today because he made an error.

He got to the ball that few people would have and made an offline throw.

People need to remember, Errors are a misleading stat because they only count plays the player touches. I'm not saying he's great, or even average. I'm just saying that you can't judge a player on Errors like many do with EE.

No, errors do count. EE has proven he makes unbelievable plays in the field and then he'll throw the ball 10 rows into the stands.

[PickOff]

No, errors do count. EE has proven he makes unbelievable plays in the field and then he'll throw the ball 10 rows into the stands.

I just want to know, is he playing well enough to "cut it up here" yet?

[thorn]

The Reds have 17 errors, EE has 8 of them. Since 90% plus are routine plays, yes his errors are still a problem and will be untill 90% of his chances are not routine.

[foxfire123]

I still don't care much for EE, but I agree with Dusty that when he just reacts and doesn't try and think a play through, he does far, far better. Just Do It, to steal from Nike.

[DTCromer]

So how much longer until we can put up with a BA in the .230's and 10 errors on the season?

[Blue]

So how much longer until we can put up with a BA in the .230's and 10 errors on the season?

Considering that the team sucks anyway, probably a long time.

[Nuxhall41]

I despise EE's plate approach. I despise his hacking. This would be a much better team if we found a few more professional hitters and intelligent baseball players. Every once in a while, recognize the situation and make the pitcher throw strikes. We can be several runs down, need baserunners and the previous hitter may have drawn a 4 pitch walk, yet the hackers on this team will still go up swinging at the first thing they see.

[Blue]

I despise EE's plate approach. I despise his hacking. This would be a much better team if we found a few more professional hitters and intelligent baseball players. Every once in a while, recognize the situation and make the pitcher throw strikes. We can be several runs down, need baserunners and the previous hitter may have drawn a 4 pitch walk, yet the hackers on this team will still go up swinging at the first thing they see.

That's Dustyball.

1. Don't clog up the bases
2. SWING!

[44Magnum]

I despise EE's plate approach. I despise his hacking. This would be a much better team if we found a few more professional hitters and intelligent baseball players. Every once in a while, recognize the situation and make the pitcher throw strikes. We can be several runs down, need baserunners and the previous hitter may have drawn a 4 pitch walk, yet the hackers on this team will still go up swinging at the first thing they see.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's not Dusty Ball either. They were like that before he got here. Phillips is another one that makes me sick to watch. I like him, but his approach is ignorant.
However, the Reds have to lead the league is 0-2 batting average. They have to. It seems like all of their hitters have that count in every at bat.

[Hondo]

I agree wholeheartedly. It's not Dusty Ball either. They were like that before he got here. Phillips is another one that makes me sick to watch. I like him, but his approach is ignorant.
However, the Reds have to lead the league is 0-2 batting average. They have to. It seems like all of their hitters have that count in every at bat.

Phillips is just in the wrong spot in the Batting order... Edwin is another story... This team needs to get rid of him, and get a GAMER over at third... Somebody who actually cares about winning or losing...

I am not saying EE doen't want to win... But having a guy like Joe Crede or Brandon Inge over there who Plays Hard and is Emotional would Bring alot to this team... Which has been lackluster over the years...

Edwin needs to be shipped off for a "Change of Scenery"... But I don't know where to send him... Not too many teams are going to want to ADD a .230 hitter...

[DTCromer]

Nice error by EE on that SB.

Glen Sample is an idiot.