Reds @ Brewers 4/9/08

[jesusfan]

Per John Fay:

Here's the lineup for tonight's 8:05 tilt with the Brewers:

Corey Patterson CF
Ryan Freel 3B
Ken Griffey Jr. RF
Brandon Phillips 2B
Adam Dunn LF
Jeff Keppinger SS
Scott Hatteberg 1B
Javy Valentin C
Josh Fogg P

Griffey has three home runs off Milwaukee starter Dave Bush. He's 7-for-15 off Bush overall. Others v. Bush: Hatteberg's .400 with a homer. Freel .455, Valentin .429.

[WMR]

I'm glad he's giving EE a night off.

[klw]

I'm glad he's giving EE a night off.

I agree. Maybe a night off will clear his head. At least there is potential for RH pop on the bench tonight. :)

[Reds Fanatic]

Keppinger batting 6th should get Dunn some better pitches to hit as they can't just pitch around Dunn.

[BRM]

Keppinger batting 6th should get Dunn some better pitches to hit as they can't just pitch around Dunn.

They will still pitch around him. This at least gives the Reds a chance to take advantage of it though.

[Cyclone792]

The offense better put up an 8 spot tonight to offset the fact that Fogg's likely to get lit up once again.

[RichRed]

Shortstops bat 2nd. This lineup is heresy!

[BRM]

The offense better put up an 8 spot tonight to offset the fact that Fogg's likely to get lit up once again.

Yeah, but at least he's cheap.

[reds44]

Definatley don't mind Edwin getting the day off. I would have liked to seen Votto over Hatteberg though.

Fogg vs. Bush?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qqBNWpsJQus

[OnBaseMachine]

Votto/Hatteberg are never going to get in a groove by playing every other day. This is really one of the dumbest platoons I've seen. Votto went 2-for-3 last night...he should be starting tonight.

[reds44]

Votto/Hatteberg are never going to get in a groove by playing every other day. This is really one of the dumbest platoons I've seen. Votto went 2-for-3 last night...he should be starting tonight.
To be fair, Hatteberg is hitting .400 off of Bush.

[KronoRed]

First lineup of the year I really dislike.

They will score 7.

[Chip R]

Shortstops bat 2nd. This lineup is heresy!


Agreed. The Brewers should file a protest.

[redsrule2500]

First lineup of the year I really dislike.

They will score 7.

hahaha

I know, it seems like a complete mess, so it will most likely work.

[oneupper]

I've had issues with BP hitting cleanup since Narron started doing and MacKanin institutionalized it last year.

But then again, Narron had Conine in there quite often also.

[MrCinatit]

The offense better put up an 8 spot tonight to offset the fact that Fogg's likely to get lit up once again.

Fogg - Bizzaro World's Aaron Harang.

[reds44]

Crew:
Rickie Weeks 2B
Gabe Gross CF
Prince Fielder 1B
Ryan Braun LF
Bill Hall 3B
Corey Hart RF
JJ Hardy SS
Dave Bush P
Jason Kendal C

[reds44]

Here is some promising news. Fogg is 6-4 with a 3.74 in 15 career starts against the Brewers.

[flyer85]

Keppinger batting 6th should get Dunn some better pitches to hit as they can't just pitch around Dunn.or at least make the potential for damage higher if they do pitch around him.

[PuffyPig]

The offense better put up an 8 spot tonight to offset the fact that Fogg's likely to get lit up once again.

For those that assume that bad pitchers like Fogg routinely get "lit up" every night, here is Harang's and Foggs average starts from last year:

Harang: 6.82 innings, 2.82 runs
Fogg: 5.64 innings, 3.13 runs

Basically, Harang pitched an extra 3-4 outs per start, and Fogg game up an extra third of a run.

It's a pretty big difference over a season, but it's not like an ace pitches a very good game every night, and it's certainly not true that pitchers like Fogg get lit up every night.

Fogg's average start last year was 5 2/3 innings, 3 runs.

[Matt700wlw]

Fogg's average start last year was 5 2/3 innings, 3 runs.

So on average, he's not even a "quality" starter....

[reds44]

MLB.tv upgraded it's quality again, and it is looking awesome.

[REDREAD]

For those that assume that bad pitchers like Fogg routinely get "lit up" every night, here is Harang's and Foggs average starts from last year:
.

Fogg is nobody's dream pitcher, but it's nice not to see a Milton, Rob Bell, Michalek, or Jimmy Anderson at the back of the rotation..

I agree with your point. Fogg isn't as bad as some here are making him out to be.

[puca]

Fogg is nobody's dream pitcher, but it's nice not to see a Milton, Rob Bell, Michalek, or Jimmy Anderson at the back of the rotation..

I agree with your point. Fogg isn't as bad as some here are making him out to be.

We'll see if you are still singing that tune a month from now. I fear Fogg will have us longing for Eric Milton by then. I hope I'm wrong.

[Always Red]

For those that assume that bad pitchers like Fogg routinely get "lit up" every night, here is Harang's and Foggs average starts from last year:

Harang: 6.82 innings, 2.82 runs
Fogg: 5.64 innings, 3.13 runs

Basically, Harang pitched an extra 3-4 outs per start, and Fogg game up an extra third of a run.

It's a pretty big difference over a season, but it's not like an ace pitches a very good game every night, and it's certainly not true that pitchers like Fogg get lit up every night.

Fogg's average start last year was 5 2/3 innings, 3 runs.

This simply cannot be true! I was told multiple times, by multiple folks on another thread that Matt Belisle had a way better year than Fogg had last year. (After I had the nerve to suggest that while they both suck, Fogg had a better year than Belisle did.)

And now you have the nerve to compare his year to Harang's??? :D

Seriously, as you say, what your numbers show are the very thin line between below average (Fogg) and above average (Harang).

[reds44]

Dusty on Edwin, Possibility of Skipping Fogg, Others



--On Edwin Encarnacion: "Give him a mental day off and let him hit, hit, hit. He's been hitting in the cage. He hit on the field. Just give him a day off and give (Ryan) Freel a start."

--On EE's mental state: "He seemed better today. But it's killing him honestly. I heard he started like this last year. That gets in your head. Mentally, you think: Dang, here we go again. It happens to everybody."

--On Reds' pinch-hitters being 0-for-11: "When we first started, I said early in the season they're going to be pinch-hitting a lot because pitchers don't go that deep. In this National League, you win a lot of games with pinch-hitters. We hit extra a lot. But there's nothing like live pitching."

--The Reds are set up so they could keep Aaron Harang on normal rest and skip Josh Fogg for Tuesday's start against the Cubs in Wrigley. "We're discussing that now," Baker said.

--Baker had heard about Homer Bailey's 5 2/3 inning, four-hit, one-walk, seven-strikeout performance. Baker's question: Why did he only go 5 2/3? The reason was Bailey pitch count was around 90.

Just more proof that Fogg is the 5th starter, not Edinson.

[LINEDRIVER]

I'm wrong already. I was predicting another 0-for-4 performance from EE.

[Far East]

Votto/Hatteberg are never going to get in a groove by playing every other day.
I tend to agree, but I wonder if it's provable.

Perhaps playing every other day could result in optimal production from some players. But probably veterans who have learned to handle the bad days and could use a breather between starts anyway.

[Patrick Bateman]

This simply cannot be true! I was told multiple times, by multiple folks on another thread that Matt Belisle had a way better year than Fogg had last year. (After I had the nerve to suggest that while they both suck, Fogg had a better year than Belisle did.)

And now you have the nerve to compare his year to Harang's??? :D

Seriously, as you say, what your numbers show are the very thin line between below average (Fogg) and above average (Harang).

That's not really the end point... it's that on an individual game basis the difference, on average is not what it appears.

On an aggregrate basis, the differences become huge, when you add up the marginal differences. Same goes with Belise, who obviously isn't a dynamo, but there are some pretty clear cut differences, even if a singular game provides no mmajor differences.

[RBA]

Choices, Choices.

Should I watch the REDS SD broadcast or should I watch the game via Brewers HD broadcast?

[gm]

Choices, Choices.

Should I watch the REDS SD broadcast or should I watch the game via Brewers HD broadcast?

Do you really need to see Bill Schroeder's grille in HD?

[OnBaseMachine]

Hopefully the offense shows up tonight against another subpar pitcher.

[gm]

Hey, maybe Fogg will have a Suppan-like performance?

(it could happen)

[Cyclone792]

For those that assume that bad pitchers like Fogg routinely get "lit up" every night, here is Harang's and Foggs average starts from last year:

Harang: 6.82 innings, 2.82 runs
Fogg: 5.64 innings, 3.13 runs

Basically, Harang pitched an extra 3-4 outs per start, and Fogg game up an extra third of a run.

It's a pretty big difference over a season, but it's not like an ace pitches a very good game every night, and it's certainly not true that pitchers like Fogg get lit up every night.

Fogg's average start last year was 5 2/3 innings, 3 runs.

Which comes out to a difference of nearly four wins a year.

And that four win difference constitutes getting lit up too often for my tastes.

[Matt700wlw]

Hey, maybe Fogg will have a Suppan-like performance?

(it could happen)

I think a more accurate way of putting it would be that maybe Fogg can get a Reds-like performance from the Brewers....

[Tom Servo]

Freel with a lucky base hit

[reds44]

Freel with a 40 hop base hit.

[Caveat Emperor]

Hopefully Dunn will see some better pitches with the hot-hitting Kepp behind him.

We'll see how it works out.

[Red in Chicago]

Which comes out to a difference of nearly four wins a year.

And that four win difference constitutes getting lit up too often for my tastes.

hey cyclone, would you mind showing the math on this calculation?

[OnBaseMachine]

Griff got ahead 3-0 then went 3-2 before swinging and missing on ball 4.

[Caveat Emperor]

Griff got ahead 3-0 then went 3-2 before swinging and missing on ball 4.

He also missed home-run #565 on the 3-0 pitch.

Total tater-ball.

[Matt700wlw]

I don't know about that call, either!

I'd like a better angle, the back angle is hard to tell...

[OnBaseMachine]

Unreal. Did the Reds really just get screwed again? it sure looked like Freel was safe.

[OnBaseMachine]

It's really hard to win games when it's 9 vs 9 plus four umps.

[reds44]

The stolen base thing isn't working out for the Reds.

[flyer85]

certainly looked like that Freel got in before the tag(I replayed it with the DVR)

[reds44]

It was close. I thought the 2nd time they showed it on the Brewers broadcast he was out.

[reds44]

It's really hard to win games when it's 9 vs 9 plus four umps.
Yeah, and when your team isn't hitting. At all.

[OnBaseMachine]

The stolen base thing isn't working out for the Reds.

It is if the umps could do their job properly.

[guttle11]

He also missed home-run #565 on the 3-0 pitch.

Total tater-ball.


Hi, I come from 30 home runs in the future. ;)

[WVRedsFan]

They read Freel's mind and pitched out.

BTW, it looked like he got his hand in before the tag.

No matter. We look as clueless at the plate as last night.

[Tom Servo]

Corey Patterson saves Fogg...for now.

[Matt700wlw]

Fogg already getting hit hard...luckilly Patterson was all over it.

[Red in Chicago]

whew...nice grab by corey

[reds44]

Third replay, and I still really can't tell. Therefor I will give hte ump the benefit of the doubt.

[guttle11]

Fools...you don't mess with Corey Patterson. Epic fail waiting to happen.

[Matt700wlw]

Another one launched...Dunn grabs it

[Caveat Emperor]

It's 2-0 in GABP right now, Milwaukee leading.

Just sayin'...

[Cyclone792]

hey cyclone, would you mind showing the math on this calculation?

A quick'n dirty win shares check had Harang with 17 win shares last season and Fogg with 6 win shares last season. Three win shares essentially constitute one win, which means Harang was worth 3.66 more wins than Fogg last season.

Next, go check VORP ... Harang was at 53.8 last season. Fogg was at 13.4. That's 40.4, and a win is worth ... so that's four wins.

BTW, here's Milton's averages in 2006: 5.87 innings per start and 3.62 runs allowed per start. I'm betting nobody's interested in bringing him back.

[reds44]

That Patterson guy, not bad.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

Fogg terrifies me out there. Those are some long outs.

[Matt700wlw]

Fogg with a flawless 1st.....

[reds44]

Gross hit it off the end of that bat. Wasn't really that close.

[SandyD]

That was easy ... ;)

[Tom Servo]

What the hell was Prince Fielder doing swinging at Josh Fogg pitches?

[RBA]

May I be the first to say "Cy Fogg". ;)

[reds44]

Really quick 1st from Fogg.

[OnBaseMachine]

Phillips couldn't have hit that pitch with an ironing board.

[Cyclone792]

FSN is showing some amazingly impressive Fogg ranks from his 2007 performance.

[Matt700wlw]

May I be the first to say "Cy Fogg". ;)

You'd be the only :cool:

[Tom Servo]

BP gets it going

[guttle11]

That is called a hit.

A couple more in succession and we might get a guy to cross home plate. That is called a run. Show them, Corey.

[Matt700wlw]

That is called a hit.

A couple more in succession and we might get a guy to cross home plate. That is called a run. Show them, Corey.

Baseball 101, with Professor Guttle

[OnBaseMachine]

3-1 on Dunn.

[Tom Servo]

Dunner clogging those bases again.

[OnBaseMachine]

Walk.

1st and 2nd and nobody out. Can we score?

[Tom Servo]

Why in God's name is Kepp trying to bunt?

[Matt700wlw]

Why in God's name is Kepp trying to bunt?

Dustyball?

[Cyclone792]

Early indications that Dunn is being pitched around heavily:

Career ball percentage: 44 percent
2008 ball percentage: 53 percent

[reds44]

Just stay patient Dunner. The hits will come.

[Tom Servo]

BP swipes 3rd!

[guttle11]

That was a bit unnecessary, but hey, it worked.

[OnBaseMachine]

Holy cow! One of our guys tried to steal a base and an ump called him safe! Wow.

[reds44]

Why in God's name is Kepp trying to bunt?
Because we need to milk every run we can.

[CrackerJack]

That was sweet, BP sure is entertainin

[OnBaseMachine]

3-2 on Kepp.

[reds44]

Bush never stopped BP's feet.

[Caveat Emperor]

Early indications that Dunn is being pitched around heavily:

Career ball percentage: 44 percent
2008 ball percentage: 53 percent

Just watching the games too, he's rarely swinging and missing at strikes.

He's being junkballed to death. At this rate, he's gonna shatter his walk totals from last year.

[SMcGavin]

Even though he was safe I hate that steal attempt. Nobody out in a 0-0 ballgame in the 2nd inning, and our hottest hitter at the plate.

[Tom Servo]

Kepp with a rare strikeout.

[RFS62]

May I be the first to say "Cy Fogg". ;)

Boy... I'll bet you really are the first to say that.

[Tom Servo]

A run!

Two of them!

[reds44]

Come on. Just a single Hatte.

[Cyclone792]

Corey Hart is giving Josh Fogg some run support!

2-0!

[Red in Chicago]

lucky break, but we'll take it...

[OnBaseMachine]

Wow. 2-0 Reds after a throwing error.

[Matt700wlw]

Runs!! :rockband::party::all_cohol

[guttle11]

Can't score at all, yet they get two runs on a play that should have ended the inning.

Only the Reds.

[Caveat Emperor]

Who was saying it was a meaningless SB? ;)

[reds44]

Thank God for free runs.

I'll take them.

2-0

[Cyclone792]

Dunn's career stolen base success rate is 76.3 percent.

[Red in Chicago]

two runs, will not win this game:p:

[Matt700wlw]

For the first time in this young season, the Brewers have NOT scored first.

[Caveat Emperor]

two runs, will not win this game:p:

A two run lead might not last the bottom of the inning...

[Tom Servo]

Brewers announcers sayng Suppan outpitched Cueto. I'd say it was moreso the Brewers outhitting the Reds.

[Tom Servo]

Josh Fogg struck out Ryan Braun. Seriously.

And here comes Bill fricken Hall.

[OnBaseMachine]

Ryan Braun swung and missed a 3-2 hanger. I bet he wishes he could have that one back...

[reds44]

Fogg got some real crap by Braun there.

[WVRedsFan]

At the rate we're going with these two pitchers, they'll still be going at midnight eastern.

[reds44]

Patterson catches everything.

[Matt700wlw]

Fogg got some real crap by Braun there.

You say that as if he actually has "good" stuff....

[Tom Servo]

Corey!

[guttle11]

I told you not to mess with Corey Patterson.

[Red in Chicago]

At the rate we're going with these two pitchers, they'll still be going at midnight eastern.

oh, i hope not...i'm going to tomorrow's game in milwaukee:beerme:

[Matt700wlw]

Such patience there by Freel...

[OnBaseMachine]

Freel swings at the first pitch for the second time tonight. He used to be a patient hitter.

[reds44]

Corey!

[reds44]

Yikes nice AB.

Freel went downhill in a hurry.

[WVRedsFan]

Freel swings at the first pitch for the second time tonight. He used to be a patient hitter.

When was that?

[OnBaseMachine]

This team takes some ugly swings on 2-0, 3-1, 2-1. That 2-0 pitch to Griff was well in on the hands.

[WVRedsFan]

7 straight from the Fogger

[Cyclone792]

Freel swings at the first pitch for the second time tonight. He used to be a patient hitter.

Freel is showing some signs of Jason LaRue; he's just fallen off a cliff since early August 2006 and hasn't had a monthly OPS over .700 since July 2006.

It's like he's forgotten how to hit.

[WVRedsFan]

Kendall is on a roll.

[Caveat Emperor]

7 straight from the Fogger

Why'd you have to be that guy?

[reds44]

Fogg not falling behind tonight. Ahead of all 9 batters he has faced.

[reds44]

Kendall is on fire.

[Heath]

7 straight from the Fogger

New sponsor of Reds on Radio -
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[Red in Chicago]

Freel is showing some signs of Jason LaRue; he's just fallen off a cliff since early August 2006 and hasn't had a monthly OPS over .700 since July 2006.

It's like he's forgotten how to hit.

considering all the concussions, he probably has :p:

thanks for the math earlier:thumbup:

[RedsManRick]

For those that assume that bad pitchers like Fogg routinely get "lit up" every night, here is Harang's and Foggs average starts from last year:

Harang: 6.82 innings, 2.82 runs
Fogg: 5.64 innings, 3.13 runs

Basically, Harang pitched an extra 3-4 outs per start, and Fogg game up an extra third of a run.

It's a pretty big difference over a season, but it's not like an ace pitches a very good game every night, and it's certainly not true that pitchers like Fogg get lit up every night.

Fogg's average start last year was 5 2/3 innings, 3 runs.

Average is a pretty meaningless number. Let's look at the distribution of starts. Even if you drop starts in to a handful of categories (like dominant, good, fair, poor, pathetic), you'll see guys like Harang routinely give you fair or better, and avoid the pathetic ones entirely. As we saw with Jeff Suppan, sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

[WVRedsFan]

Why'd you have to be that guy?

Wasn't my fault. He got the 8 hitter out, you know

[Heath]

Kendall is on fire.

You would too if you hit ninth.

Heck, I spent a whole summer/fall hitting tenth. (No EH)

[Caveat Emperor]

Kendall is on fire.

Maybe he took being hit #9 personally.

Then again, I suppose the Reds could have a great hitting catcher if they stuck Keppinger behind the plate.

It'd be close to a defensive wash between Kepp and Kendall, I imagine.

[redsrule2500]

c'mon Fogger!!!!!

[oneupper]

Freel is showing some signs of Jason LaRue; he's just fallen off a cliff since early August 2006 and hasn't had a monthly OPS over .700 since July 2006.

It's like he's forgotten how to hit.

Freel could never hit. He arrived in the majors in his physical prime and some assumed that was the player he was. Legged some IFHs out, and managed to
get on base at a decent clip with some patience at the plate.

He's over the hump now and its all downhill.

[Cyclone792]

Freel could never hit. He arrived in the majors in his physical prime and some assumed that was the player he was. Legged some IFHs out, and managed to
get on base at a decent clip with some patience at the plate.

He's over the hump now and its all downhill.

Freel since August 1, 2006:


G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+

Aug/Sep 06 42 190 162 20 35 8 0 1 6 23 0 41 2 3 0 2 14 5 .216 .321 .284 .605
2007 75 304 277 44 68 13 3 3 16 18 0 47 7 2 0 4 15 8 .245 .308 .347 .655
2008 6 13 12 2 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 .083 .154 .167 .321


That's 507 plate appearances of yuck.

[reds44]

2-0 end 3

[WVRedsFan]

Freel could never hit. He arrived in the majors in his physical prime and some assumed that was the player he was. Legged some IFHs out, and managed to
get on base at a decent clip with some patience at the plate.

He's over the hump now and its all downhill.

Good analysis. Freel should have been traded in 2006 when his value was high. Now we can't give him away. He'll probably be DFA'd before all is said and done.

[redsfaninbsg]

Just tuned in and I see that Fogg has allowed just one hit through 3 innings. What in the world is going on.

[reds44]

Good analysis. Freel should have been traded in 2006 when his value was high. Now we can't give him away. He'll probably be DFA'd before all is said and done.
Giving him an extension last year was not one of Wayne's finer moves.

[Caveat Emperor]

Just tuned in and I see that Fogg has allowed just one hit through 3 innings. What in the world is going on.

Make the man pee into a cup!

[WVRedsFan]

Giving him an extension last year was not one of Wayne's finer moves.

Well, the Freel, Coffey, and Narron extentions are about even in my book. Of course, no one reads my book.

[OnBaseMachine]

When was that?

2004-2006 when he posted OBP's of .375, .371, and .363 with a P/PA of 4.01, 4.06, and 4.09.

Dunn got impatient there. Ahead 3-1 and he chased a fastball should level and eventually K'd.

[reds44]

Dunner got tired of walking.

[redsrule2500]

Well, the Freel, Coffey, and Narron extentions are about even in my book. Of course, no one reads my book.

I agree. That's just stupid, especially the mid-season Narron deal.

[reds44]

Well, the Freel, Coffey, and Narron extentions are about even in my book. Of course, no one reads my book.

http://www.amesamrotary.org/LiteracyProgramWebPages/IowaLiteracyImages/LiteracyLogoFiles/LITERACY%20LOGO.png

[Caveat Emperor]

Finally a trivia question I can answer -- Graves, Shaw and Brantley.

[OnBaseMachine]

Back-to-back walks to Kepp and Hatte.

[cumberlandreds]

Bush walking the ballpark.

[KronoRed]

I am loving the base clogging tonight.

[NC Reds]

This offense makes me sleepy.

[Matt700wlw]

This offense is BORING.

[Patrick Bateman]

Average is a pretty meaningless number. Let's look at the distribution of starts. Even if you drop starts in to a handful of categories (like dominant, good, fair, poor, pathetic), you'll see guys like Harang routinely give you fair or better, and avoid the pathetic ones entirely. As we saw with Jeff Suppan, sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.


That wasn't PP's point. He's well aware of the difference between a Harang and a Fogg. I think he's tired of everyone assuming Fogg is going to get shell shocked everytime he takes the hill because he sucks, when in actuallity, the difference between good and bad in a singular game isn't as big as you would think.

Fogg sucks. But he doesn't suck so bad that the Reds can't win 45% of the games he pitches in. So why is it that we act like the Reds have no chance of winning when guys like him take the mound?

[OnBaseMachine]

Offense strands two more.

[redsfaninbsg]

I never thought I'd see the day where the Reds had to beat teams by pitching.

[reds44]

Oy vey.

[Cyclone792]

Freel since August 1, 2006:


G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+

Aug/Sep 06 42 190 162 20 35 8 0 1 6 23 0 41 2 3 0 2 14 5 .216 .321 .284 .605
2007 75 304 277 44 68 13 3 3 16 18 0 47 7 2 0 4 15 8 .245 .308 .347 .655
2008 6 13 12 2 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 .083 .154 .167 .321


That's 507 plate appearances of yuck.

BTW, here's those 507 plate appearances added together, just in case someone wanted to choke on their own vomit ...


G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-----+-----+-----+

Aug/Sep 06 42 190 162 20 35 8 0 1 6 23 0 41 2 3 0 2 14 5 .216 .321 .284 .605
2007 75 304 277 44 68 13 3 3 16 18 0 47 7 2 0 4 15 8 .245 .308 .347 .655
2008 6 13 12 2 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 .083 .154 .167 .321

Total 123 507 451 66 104 22 3 4 22 42 0 90 9 5 0 6 30 13 .231 .309 .319 .628

[WVRedsFan]

This offense makes me sleepy.

:sleep:

Nothing more exciting than a Corey Patterson catch, though.

I like hits and this ain't making it with me.

[Falls City Beer]

Oy vey.

Please elaborate on sentiments such as these.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

Patterson keeps making plays with the leather. I will take it.

[RFS62]

Corey is some kind of fielder out there.

[cumberlandreds]

Two pitches two outs. Gotta like that.

[reds44]

Patterson. Catches. Everything.

[Caveat Emperor]

I never thought I'd see the day where the Reds had to beat teams by pitching.

It took a while to get here, but welcome to Krivskyball -- pitching, defense, and a power-deficient offense.

We got Twins v. 2.0, just like many predicted when Wayne was hired.

[Red in Chicago]

It took a while to get here, but welcome to Krivskyball -- pitching, defense, and a power-deficient offense.

he still needs to work on the defense

[NC Reds]

I don't mind the walks but we aren't making ordinary pitchers pay for mistake pitches. I wish Dunn and EdE would pull it together.

[Falls City Beer]

Corey is some kind of fielder out there.

I see a number of Orioles' games when I'm out at bars (not my choice); I got to see a decent bit of Patterson out there. I knew he had some excellent skills on defense, but he's turned it up a notch.

[Heath]

This offense is BORING.

If it scores more runs than the other team, resulting in a winning season, resulting in a possible championship for this club, I'll take it.

Ok, back to my meds.

[OnBaseMachine]

Braun homers. 2-1.

Way to go Fogg.

[Cyclone792]

Fogg gives up his third home run of the season already in less than 8 innings.

[guttle11]

Welcome back, Fogg.

Now morph back into Cueto.

[Matt700wlw]

If it scores more runs than the other team, resulting in a winning season, resulting in a possible championship for this club, I'll take it.

Ok, back to my meds.

So will I....but they're boring, so far.

I'm still under the thinking that they will get going eventually.

[OnBaseMachine]

Reds pitchers love giving up two out runs.

[WVRedsFan]

It took a while to get here, but welcome to Krivskyball -- pitching, defense, and a power-deficient offense.

We got Twins v. 2.0, just like many predicted when Wayne was hired. I was thinking the same thing. It's what I feared. Trouble is, I don't look for a Dunn extention. When Griffey moves on next year this team will be punchless because it looks like Jay Bruce may rot in the minors and Votto is not a favored son. And they traded Hamilton. Nothing against the new pitching, but you do need some hitters too.

[MWM]

Oh man, Fogg was so obviously overmatched in that AB. It's rare you say that about a hitter vs. a pitcher.

[reds44]

Braun hit Fogg's crap out that time.

[reds44]

I was thinking the same thing. It's what I feared. Trouble is, I don't look for a Dunn extention. When Griffey moves on next year this team will be punchless because it looks like Jay Bruce may rot in the minors and Votto is a favored son. And they traded Hamilton. Nothing against the new pitching, but you do need some hitters too.
Jay Bruce may rot in the minors??

He's 21 years old. He rots fast.

[OnBaseMachine]

Bruce Froemming was great in the booth there with Grande and Welsh. Now he was a great umpire...I'll miss him.

[cumberlandreds]

Jay Bruce may rot in the minors??

He's 21 years old. He rots fast.

Bruce will be up to the bigs by June. Sooner if the hitting doesn't pick up quickly.

[MWM]

Tonight is an excellent example of BABIP. The Brewer batters have tatooed several of Fogg's pitches right at people (i.e. the first two outs prior to Braun's HR; Hart's inning ending warning track ball earlier).

[WVRedsFan]

Jay Bruce may rot in the minors??

He's 21 years old. He rots fast.

Who would you rather have off the bench to play outfield? Freel, Hopper, or Bruce? It just seems to me that sometime in spring training, they decided he wasn't all that.

[Heath]

Everytime I see a flyball in every other NL park (besides Philadelphia) I feel like the Outfield is the size of 3 Western states.

GABP is the size of your local t-ball outfield.

[reds44]

Who would you rather have off the bench to play outfield? Freel, Hopper, or Bruce? It just seems to me that sometime in spring training, they decided he wasn't all that.
Give me Freel and Hopper with Bruce getting playing time everyday in AAA.

[MWM]

Bruce Froemming was great in the booth there with Grande and Welsh. Now he was a great umpire...I'll miss him.


Dude, Bruce Froemming was one of the worst umps I've ever seen. Just awful, IMO.

[OnBaseMachine]

Patterson showing why he doesn't walk much as he swings at a 2-1 pitch way up in the zone and grounds out.

[Heath]

Bob Castellini likes Adam Dunn. A lot.

Adam Dunn's a Red for a long time. IMO.

[reds44]

Froemming in Wisconsin is fitting.

[WVRedsFan]

Give me Freel and Hopper with Bruce getting playing time everyday in AAA.

That's what you've got. How's that working out offensively?

[cumberlandreds]

Froemming in Wisconsin is fitting.

He looks like a cheesehead doesn't he?

[CrackerJack]

Everytime I see a flyball in every other NL park (besides Philadelphia) I feel like the Outfield is the size of 3 Western states.

GABP is the size of your local t-ball outfield.

That genius of Jim Bowden and John Allen never stops giving.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

Who would you rather have off the bench to play outfield? Freel, Hopper, or Bruce? It just seems to me that sometime in spring training, they decided he wasn't all that.
Obviously I'd prefer it if Bruce were on the team, but if he isn't going to start, then I'd rather he be getting consistent AB's.

[reds44]

That's what you've got. How's that working out offensively?
The Reds offensive woes have about 98% to do with Dunn, Encarnacion, and Votto/Hatteberg not hitting than it does Hopper and Freel coming off the bench.

[OnBaseMachine]

Dude, Bruce Froemming was one of the worst umps I've ever seen. Just awful, IMO.

I didn't see him in his younger days but I thought he was pretty good these last few years. BTW he said he wouldn't be surprised if MLB went to instant replay before long...

[reds44]

He looks like a cheesehead doesn't he?
Looks like he ate about 100 of them.

[KronoRed]

I see a number of Orioles' games when I'm out at bars (not my choice); I got to see a decent bit of Patterson out there. I knew he had some excellent skills on defense, but he's turned it up a notch.

He's playing for his career this year, not surprising.

[OnBaseMachine]

Thank you Corey Hart for that bad throw or else we would be getting shutout through five by Cy Bush.

[reds44]

He's playing for his career this year, not surprising.
Or maybe Dusty has gotten to him, or maybe not.

[cumberlandreds]

Hardy K's on three pitches and then Bush singles. Go figure.

[guttle11]

Maybe Edwin's not so bad, eh? Hatte should have blocked it, but that was a terrible throw.

[Screwball]

Kendall's incredible hot (lucky) streak continues...

[OnBaseMachine]

Fogg retires the first two but then the pitcher singles, Kendell singles and Freel throws it away to move the runners up to 2nd and 3rd. Hatteberg is not a good defender. I don't care what anyone says, Votto is a better defender.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

The pickin machine picks a bad time to not pick it.

Kendall's avg is nearing .600

[cumberlandreds]

Maybe Edwin's not so bad, eh?

Freel is no better at 3rd than EdE is.

[OnBaseMachine]

Why can't Reds pitchers get the third out?

[MWM]

Hatteburg really should have stopped that. He maybe shouldn't have caught it, but he sdefinitely should have knocked it down. that was poor defense.

[RFS62]

Freel runs around like a weasel on crack

[Matt700wlw]

Wow...a 2 run error on Phillips.

[OnBaseMachine]

Damnit!!!!!!!

Phillips lets a routine ball go through his legs. Wow.

Same old Reds.

[Tom Servo]

Gawdddd...

[klw]

The Reds offensive woes have about 98% to do with Dunn, Encarnacion, and Votto/Hatteberg not hitting than it does Hopper and Freel coming off the bench.
Can we agree to call them Vottoberg?

[reds44]

Krivsky ball by rear end.

[NC Reds]

Wow. Horrific defense that inning.

[guttle11]

You're not supposed to regift something to the person who gave it to you.

[redsrule2500]

Are we serious right now? SERIOUSLY????????????

[Matt700wlw]

Never thought I'd see that from Brandon...

[reds44]

Reds were going to have score more than 2 runs to win anyway.

[OnBaseMachine]

That is embarrassing. I could have made that play.

Same old Reds. With this offense that will probably be enough for Bush.

Thanks Phillips.

[flyer85]

that was an ugly sequence

[redsrule2500]

Why can't Reds pitchers get the third out?

Fixed: Why can't Reds fielders get the third out?

[TeamBoone]

GABP is the size of your local t-ball outfield.

Ummm, not quite....

[reds44]

I blame Fogg.

[cincrazy]

That is embarrassing. I could have made that play.

Same old Reds. With this offense that will probably be enough for Bush.

Thanks Phillips.

Doubtful

[HumnHilghtFreel]

Can we agree to call them Vottoberg?

Jott Vottoberg works for me.

That Phillips error was tough. Definitely was shocked to see it happen. He's up early this inning though, hopefully he can make up for it.

[OnBaseMachine]

But still, it's ridiculous that Fogg retires the first two and has the pitcher coming up and gives up that hit.

[Falls City Beer]

Infield defense is awful. Just as :wave: said it would.

Throw in an error from one of the only surehanded guys in that infield, and it becomes a Bowery Boys routine.

[redsrule2500]

Cmon Griffey don't just watch that same pitch that every pitcher throws you go by. ugh.

[OnBaseMachine]

Griffey singles and moves to 2nd on a balk.

[Heath]

Let's see....today's date April 9th....155 games to go....

[redsrule2500]

Griffey singles and moves to 2nd on a balk.

What the smoke? I must be on a huge delay over here on MLB.tv....

[reds44]

Let's see....today's date April 9th....155 games to go....
Yeah. I think some of us need to relax.

[Matt700wlw]

That is embarrassing. I could have made that play.

Same old Reds. With this offense that will probably be enough for Bush.

Thanks Phillips.

Good lord, Dude....he isn't perfect...he just picked a really bad time to have a blunder (is there a good time?)

I don't anticipate seeing something like that from him for quite a while. Edwin? Freel? Well, that's different ;)

[reds44]

What the smoke? I must be on a huge delay over here on MLB.tv....
You do. I get the same thing.

[KronoRed]

Let's see....today's date April 9th....155 games to go....

Yep, season is over.

[Screwball]

Good lord, Dude....he isn't perfect...he just picked a really bad time to have a blunder.

I don't anticipate seeing something like that from him for quite a while. Edwin? Freel? Well, that's different ;)

Exactly.

[redsrule2500]

Good lord, Dude....he isn't perfect...he just picked a really bad time to have a blunder.

I don't anticipate seeing something like that from him for quite a while. Edwin? Freel? Well, that's different ;)

Exactly...you expect perfection from anyone. Phillips has been more consistant than anyone at second base - just a bad time for an error right there.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

It's nice to see Phillips not swinging at just anything in this AB trying to rectify his mistake. Showing some semblance of plate discipline right now.

[OnBaseMachine]

Who said the season was over?

Phillips ahead 3-1. Strike two. Foul.

[reds44]

Phillips tried to hit that to Green Bay.

[Matt700wlw]

Jack one, Phillips! :D

[OnBaseMachine]

Single, 1st and 3rd nobody out for Dunn.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

BP singles to left. Runners on 1st and 3rd with Dunn coming up

[reds44]

Come on Dunn.

[Matt700wlw]

Ok, if they don't score here...

[WMR]

This game thread could push a person with suicidal tendencies over the edge.

[Falls City Beer]

Embarrassing.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but come on--enough of the mysterious adjectival posts. Tell what's going on for folks without images.

[OnBaseMachine]

This team could push a person with suicidal tendencies over the edge.

Fixed it for ya.;)

[OnBaseMachine]

3-0 on Dunn.

[Falls City Beer]

3-0 on Dunn.

Thank you.

[Matt700wlw]

Stop The Presses!!!!! A Sac Fly By Dunn!!!!!!

[HumnHilghtFreel]

Dunn sends a 3-1 fastball to left, Sac fly, Phillips advances to second

[Red in Chicago]

dunn with the big sac:eek: